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2011 Panther Player Season Recap - PR Armanti Edwards

In 2011, Carolina Panthers' PR/WR/QB Armanti Edwards did his job, didn't complain, and did it with a grace and humility that is all but lost in professional sports today.

Edwards, for as much vitriol that has swirled around him during his two seasons as a Panther, actually performed admirably. His job, for the second straight season, was to play a position that he had not played since high school--if ever. What is most impressive is Armanti did not muff or fumble one time in 41 attempts (including nine fair catches).

In the Playoffs, we saw a man thrust into the punt return role in a similar fashion (49ers WR Kyle Williams), only to cough up two costly turnovers that perhaps re-wrote NFL history. Let us not underestimate the importance of a sure-handed punt returner, and let us not downplay how impressive it was that Edwards fielded 41 punts--and did it flawlessly.

For a deeper examination into his 2011 season and a prediction regarding his future in electric blue...join me after the jump...

Star-divide

Statistics:

Armanti Edwards' punt return average of 5.5 yards is pedestrian. There is no disputing that. But what gets lost in the numbers is just how reliant a punt returner is on his teammates...

Linebackers are the heart and soul of most special teams units. LBs Jon Beason, Thomas Davis, Thomas Williams, Omar Gaither and Jason Phillips all ended the season on injured reserve, so midway through the year the Panthers had to sign guys off the street to come in and play huge roles on special teams. With all of the injuries there was zero continuity. And I would be remiss not to mention that several huge punt returns (the most notable was 45 yards) were called back because of holding or illegal-blocking penalties.

Making excuses for Armanti Edwards doesn't do him, or anyone else any favors. Yes, at times he was timid. Maybe he was a little indecisive, too. There were times where there was a little yardage to go get, but instead he danced around and was stopped for no gain. I believe all of those things can be fixed with experience and proper coaching.

But the thing that really matters when evaluating Armanti Edwards as a punt returner is this: he held onto the job all season long. If the coaching staff thought he was doing a poor job they would have experimented with some different personnel.

Other Contributions/Highlights:

Armanti lined up in the "Mountaineer" package a couple times during the season:

In week 14 against the Falcons Edwards took the snap and ran behind right guard Geoff Hangartner for a five yard gain. In week 15 at Houston the Panthers lined up in the same formation--faked the run--and Armanti threw an accurate ball nicely over the D-line to WR Steve Smith. The play gained 11 yards and a first down.

Week 11 at Indianapolis was his best game as a punt returner. Armanti broke off a beautiful 45-yard return, setting the Panthers up at the Indianapolis 32 yard line. Predictably, the play was called back because of a Kion Wilson block-in-the-back. The result of the play, after the penalty yardage was assessed, was a career-high punt return of 17 yards.

Nicknames:

He has only one: "Money." This nickname was carried over from his days at Appalachian State. Hopefully he will live up to it's billing in 2012.

His future with the team:

Armanti Edwards will need to do one of two things to be a Carolina Panther in 2012. He will need to improve his vision and technique as a punt returner and hone his craft as a WR, or he will need to concentrate on playing QB full-time.

Something tells me that in order to keep his job as the primary PR, he will need to show improvement in mini-camp and OTAs, but he is capable of that. I don't see the Panthers bringing back Legedu Naanee, so he will have a chance to stake claim to that #4 WR spot (behind Steve Smith, Brandon LaFell and David Gettis).

The second option is probably the more intriguing, but is not realistic. Can Armanti play QB in the NFL? We don't know. Does he have the skill-set to be a decent backup in case Cam has to miss some time? Perhaps, but the coaching staff went with a veteran backup in 2011, and that will probably be the safer play again in 2012.

If Armanti is going to stick, it's going to have to be at WR and PR. The problem is, even if he does manage to cement himself as the #4 WR, we saw last year that when a starter needs a rest, the coaching staff elects to go to two-TE sets so they could spell the starter one at a time with the #3 WR. The #4 WR did not see the field very often on offense.

To see more of Edwards offensively, he must beat-out David Gettis for the #3 spot. If Gettis has problems with his rehab, or he's not the player he was in 2010, then Armanti is likely the next man up. But Gettis is young, and with the way ACL rehab has improved, it's likely that he will return and earn one of the top three spots.

Armanti's 2012 cap number is not startling at $490,000. But the Panthers find themselves over the cap, meaning a guy who will only do one job will be constantly evaluated. This means Edwards will have to improve drastically as a punt returner if he's going to have any long-term job stability. To do that, he is going to need some help. Fortunately for Armanti, help might be on the way...

In an interesting development, the Panthers have brought in Special Teams Assistant Richard Rodgers (He was a teammate of Rivera's at Cal). The circumstances surrounding the hire make it look like he might be more of a co-coordinator with incumbent Brian Murphy. With an extra set of eyes and some fresh ideas, hopefully we'll see another step forward from a special teams unit that started to improve near the end of the 2011 season.

Getting some of the quality depth back from injury will provide the unit with an additional boost. Even more, most of the injured starters coming back will relegate the 2nd-string players who were filling in back to special teams.

Combine the additional coaching and better players with the added benefit of an offseason and it should provide Edwards with the support he lacked so he can become more cost-effective.

Conclusion:

The frustrating thing about the situation is it looks like Edwards could succeed at WR if he got the opportunity. It was the preseason, but in 2011 he lead the team in receptions and receiving yardage. Again, his best bet will probably be improving as a punt returner. If he can make significant strides, it may be enough to earn a roster spot. After all, having a guy back there you can trust is big. Having a guy back there who can change a game with one play is an invaluable commodity. And in my opinion, Armanti Edwards has the ability and skill-set to do just that.

Poll
What is the best role for Armanti Edwards in 2012?
#3 WR
31 votes
#4 WR
46 votes
#2 QB
51 votes
Punt Returner
79 votes
We should just release him
60 votes

267 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 85 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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Comments

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I actually think AE has a higher ceiling than Pilares

When I see AE, I think Davone Bess. AE is about an inch taller and 5-10 pounds lighter so there is a slight size difference. However Edwards runs 4.41 speed, compared to Bess’s 4.62.

With those things considered, check out Bess’s first TD reception:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBV3nErmRwk&feature=related

And him more recently:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lxgjPED1Us&feature=related

by ianc1203 on Feb 17, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

only problem with that is Bess was undrafted and was an actual WR. One could argue Pilares showed more in that one kick off return then AE has his entire career. Not to mention Pilares was picked by THIS staff. AE Goodson Norwood etc are leftovers from a failed regime.

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by MMA_PITBULL on Feb 17, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

KR and PR are totally different worlds

With PR being much much more difficult. Returning kicks… you know you can catch the ball cleanly, and you know there will be blockers in front of you.

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by Tater596 on Feb 17, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I see your point

However, I still wouldnt agree with cutting him this offseason. We spent a lot to get him, and he still has that potential Hurney saw in him from originally. I think this is the season where he’ll have to show that he will make significant progress toward that potential, or find a new team.

by ianc1203 on Feb 17, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Good assessment ERL

It’s important that we remain patient with Armanti. This was a 3 year project from the beginning, and with year 1 being all but a waste, I think we owe him this season to prove himself. That said, he needs to come into TC with guns blazing to make sure he sticks. A lot of his future depends on who we draft.

I think he CAN play as a backup QB in the NFL, but I think that ship has likely sailed. With all his practice time being dedicated to his new WR and PR crafts, there is little time to add skills to that QB position. We would need to start all over, effectively voiding the past 2 years of training. I don’t see that happening.

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by Tater596 on Feb 17, 2012 8:22 AM EST reply actions  

I strongly agree with you about a punt returner leaning heavily on his teammates

AE has the speed and ability to break free but too often he was already surrounded by opposing players which led him to make a choice—try for extra yardage or signal fair catch. I don’t think he has a snowball’s chance at an already crowded WR spot but if he can improve his mechanics and get better protection on returns he could be a good one. Its good to point out the lack of fumbles on the year…zero. That being said, he can work on improving that number and build off of something positive.

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by Disciple of Carolina on Feb 17, 2012 8:23 AM EST reply actions  

He's not a good PR.

He dances far too much rather than simply taking the ball and trying to get upfield as quickly as possible. Instead he pauses looking for a hole that either isn’t there, or because he’s got no momentum he doesn’t have the speed to exploit it.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on Feb 18, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

great analysis. spot on.

i been saying dump him, but that is lazy. i don’t see him playing a significant role as a wr, ever and agree with your qb analysis – never will get a shot. idk. i def don’t see him jumping pilares onto the field, though. somebody called him kangaroo b/c of his hop moves. i laughed at that. great read, top notch.

by bylinebrown on Feb 17, 2012 8:25 AM EST reply actions  

forgot to point out about preseason stats.

they wanted him to earn a spot as bad as i did, but he was catching like 20 percent of what came is his way. those stats were thru volume, and i thought it was telling he disappeared after getting that many looks. they must have liked what they saw.

by bylinebrown on Feb 17, 2012 8:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Armanti will be held onto through the end of his contract

Also, he will see limited PT at the WR position until the coachs fully trust him, or we don’t have a great TE setup like we did this past year. If Shockey is gone, I think you could see more of AE in the line up.

Don't give up, don't ever give up ~ Jim Valvano

by AParker on Feb 17, 2012 8:27 AM EST reply actions  

Yea

I don’t think Armanti Edwards has much upside. He was drafted way too high and I don’t think he can do enough next season to even attempt return the value of who we missed at with picks spent on AE. That said, with what we have invested in him and no PR specialist on the roster at this point I agree AE will be back. If someone comes on really strong in camp a late round cut could be possible.

Things from post i disagree with

-that lack of opportunity has been the lack of AE success at WR. He had a new coaching staff and new QB last season and a clean slate I would imagine and did nothing to take advantage of it.
-AE can play some sort of QB role on the Panthers
-patting a NFL player on back for catching the ball and doing nothing with it.

In 2011, Carolina Panthers’ PR/WR/QB Armanti Edwards did his job, didn’t complain, and did it with a grace and humility that is all but lost in professional sports today.

lol? He has shown grace and humility or had one reason in the world to complain about anything?

by Relax on Feb 17, 2012 8:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Things that I disagree with your disagreement on
-that lack of opportunity has been the lack of AE success at WR. He had a new coaching staff and new QB last season and a clean slate I would imagine and did nothing to take advantage of it.

It’s pretty hard to get on the field at WR when we generally only field two of them. If you are splitting practice time between WR and PR, it is even less likely that you are also the #3 WR. He was our leading receiver in the preseason, he needs to work on making catches under duress. Otherwise, he was consistently able to get seperation… something some of our other WRs struggle with.

AE can play some sort of QB role on the Panthers

He has played a very limited role in the wildcat formation at QB, to decent success. Beyond that, he is the closest thing we have on the roster to Cam’s skillset at QB. While I don’t think they will entertain that avenue… if he had been drafted with Cam already on the roster, there is a good chance he would have been molded to be the backup QB instead of converting to WR/PR. If you don’t think he has the arm or elusiveness, I challenge you to watch some college tape of him and see that isn’t true. The only thing he lacks is size.

Your last thing was pretty unintelligible, but what I will say is that AE has handled himself very well professionally, regardless of all the hate swirling around him.

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by Tater596 on Feb 17, 2012 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Nicely done.

If there’s any player that’s become a firestorm of controversy on our roster in recent months, it’s probably Armanti. For all the arguing about how bad his stats have been, you’ve delved into the heart of the problem, and one that many people miss because they’re so enamored of the almighty statline (which we all know doesn’t tell the story) — the utter reliance a punt returner has on the rest of the special teams squad to get the job done. Hopefully bringing on Richard Rodgers will give AE a better chance to learn the PR nuances, improve his decision-making and so forth.

I have to admit, I still would like to see them surprise us and give AE a shot at a backup QB role, but I also admit that’s going to further test the patience of a fanbase that already has very little patience for Armanti, and it’s quite possible that ship has sailed, as you’ve said. Still, I can’t help but think of how intriguing a proposition that would be, if it could work.

by NX75649 on Feb 17, 2012 9:26 AM EST reply actions  

Realistically, I don't see what AE is going to do to improve anything

It would not surprise me at all if AE lost his PR duties to Pilares or another rookie specialist (like this scat back people are interested in drafting). We’re actually at the point where we applaud him just for fielding the football on returns? I’m sorry, but that is a baseline skill. It’s not something you congratulate someone for.

As for the QB wishful thinking myth… That is a dream of a dream. Ship has sailed and all that. Whatever his abilities you may think he has, whatever you think he is capable of doing, the coaching staff has shown no indication of having AE be the backup. Rivera even admitted that they were looking for another guy with Cam’s talents.

Also, I voted “Release” only because there was no option below #4 WR. I don’t think we should release him, but I don’t think at this point he is beating out Kealoha Pilares. And if we do end up bringing back Legedu Naanee (which I wager is a 50/50 shot at this point), then that puts AE all the way down to the #6 WR, which would put him on the cusp of being cut especially if we do draft another WR and is also a far cry from #4.

by aceofsween on Feb 17, 2012 9:38 AM EST reply actions  

There's a plethora of good PR guys available in this draft.

At RB, CB and WR. It all depends on what Rivera wants to do with the position.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on Feb 18, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Project is over...Wasted roster spot at this point

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by MMA_PITBULL on Feb 17, 2012 9:42 AM EST reply actions  

Without any other player with the chance to be dynamic in the punt game, he has one more year.

I don’t see it being likely he ever makes it in the NFL as a WR. I like to think given ample oppurtunity he could thrive, but as things stand, I can’t seem him getting on the field. With that being the case, if he doesn’t make strides returning the ball this season, he can’t justify his roster spot and should probably be cut next season.

This is make or break for him. I’ll be rooting for him.

If you disagree with my opinion, I will take it personally.

by Panthers FTW on Feb 17, 2012 9:48 AM EST reply actions  

At this point its safe to say Hurney botched the 2010 draft.

The problem was that he took a QB in Clausen, a project in AE, a tweener in Norwood and asked a new coach to adopt all these developmental projects.

Clausen’s on his way out, Norwood is buried and at this point Armanti is dedicating a roster spot to a guy who doesn’t see the field except on PR, which is kind of a waste.

It’s not Edwards fault… he didn’t get asked to be taken so high, but at this point it looks like a fruitless gamble by Hurney.

I will remember the 2010 draft as one that took a lot of risks, but unfortunately new coaching staffs like to dictate their own risks and projects, not adopt others.

by James Dator on Feb 17, 2012 10:13 AM EST via Android app reply actions   1 recs

thank god we got Laffell Gettis and Hardy in that draft.

"If Grandma had balls she'd be Grandpa" Steve Smith

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Saving The Environment One Green Comment at a Time

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by MMA_PITBULL on Feb 17, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I don’t think it’s coincidence that they are the three most standard examples of their position.

Average height, weight and experience for their positon.

Also of note: we fired the scouting staff following this draft

by James Dator on Feb 17, 2012 10:24 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

I completely forgot about that...

The scouting staff needed to go after the 09 and 10 drafts. You just don’t build teams through the draft when you have drafts like these. The starters we have could easily be supplanted by a veteran or another draft prospect. All-in-all we have 4 starters, 6 players cut, and the rest never even see the field. You just don’t build good teams when you have cut 38% of your draft just 1 to 2 years removed from said draft.

That number is only more likely to go up (looking at you Goodson, Clausen, and dare I say Edwards).

In 2009:
Everette Brown – Cut
Sherrod Martin – Starter
Corvey Irvin – Cut
Mike Goodson – Benched
Tony Fiametta – Cut
Duke Robinson – Cut
Captain Munnerlyn – Starter

2010:
Jimmy Clausen – Benched
Brandon LaFell – Starter
Armanti Edwards – the guy this thread was about…
Eric Norwood – Buried on Depth chart
Greg Hardy – Starter
David Gettis – 2nd/3rd WR (penciled in)
Tony Pike – Cut
RJ Stanford – Buried
Robert McClain – Cut

by aceofsween on Feb 17, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

In this particular case, changing the coaching staff has led to more of these guys being cut.

Not disagreeing that our drafting needs to improve…just throwing it out there.

"Puttin' DB's to sleep since '86-'87."

by ERL on Feb 17, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I think that's fair too...

Fiametta for example was tearing it up for Dallas in 2011…. just didn’t have a role here.

by James Dator on Feb 17, 2012 10:51 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Same could both be said for Pike/Clausen

We just flat out have no need for a QB of that mold anymore. Niether can throw the deep ball, so therefore… out.

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by Tater596 on Feb 17, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

in regards to jimmy

The fairest thing we could do for him is cut him. He can then go to a team like the browns or seahawks as a back-up and have a chance at a career. Here he just isn’t a fit anymore and keeping him will curb stomp any chance he has. The fairest thing we could do for edwards is keep him. I don’t know that another team would be willing to gamble on him. Keep him and give him the chance to work his ass off and compete. It’ll push him and players like pilares. Ultimately I think pilares will win but that’s just personal opinion and it can’t hurt to give the kid a chance I guess. Coming from me that’s high praise for ae

Save us Pilares

by LimeyPanther on Feb 17, 2012 11:30 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I can agree with that however...

because we kept giving away our 1st rounders, we weren’t able to acquire any “immediate impact” type of guys who could come in and contribute. So for 2 straight years, we had no first round picks and got next to nothing out of our 2nd rounders. Our 3rd rounders have been a bit of a mixed bag, but that’s a little bit more expected.

The fact remains that a lot of these guys just aren’t contributing anything to the team. That can’t be allowed to go on.

by aceofsween on Feb 17, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay, two-part question for some perspective and possible enlightenment.

First off, to Tater: You’re pretty much the resident expert when it comes to Armanti — I didn’t pay any real attention to previous drafts before last year’s, sadly. What was Armanti’s motor and work ethic like, and is his time converting from QB to WR indicative of how quickly he can learn and adjust on the fly.

Second, to James: Given AE’s time thus far in converting from QB to WR, would we be looking at a similar timetable (read, 1-2 years, depending on how much of a chance Fox gave him in the first place) for Armanti to “convert back” to QB if (and I realize, that’s likely a big if at this point), Rivera and company were to surprise us and try to bring Armanti back into QB form, given the skillset we saw in college?

by NX75649 on Feb 17, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Armanti was the unquestioned leader at App

There were no, and still are no questions about his work ethic. He individually sought out help from Moose over the offseason to improve his WR ability, and also sought out Jason Baker to help with his return skills. We saw the dividends of the work with Moose in the preseason, and saw him field the ball cleanly on returns all year thanks in part to his work with Baker.

As a WR, he just needs to learn to make the tough catch. He is able to get separation fairly consistently and seems to run decent routes, but has had problems catching with a defender draped on him when necessary.

As a PR, first and foremost he needs a more consistent return unit in front of him. But as far as what he can control, he needs to learn when to fair catch and when to field the ball. He also needs to learn to go north south instead of dance around so much.

I think given his progress from where he was as a rookie, we’ll see vast improvement this offseason.

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by Tater596 on Feb 17, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

The old coach hated them too.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on Feb 18, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice post.

Sadly, one or both of the guys in your caption could find themselves on the waiver wire next season.

by Derek Leazer on Feb 17, 2012 10:16 AM EST reply actions  

We ran a 3 WR and 2 TE set out of necessity really

I remember reading somewhere that the only reason we did that was because Chud or whoever didn’t like what we had yet at the other positions. I think either Pilares or Edwards will find a way on to the field a lot more next season.

by Cam2SmittyAllDay on Feb 17, 2012 10:20 AM EST reply actions  

You could be right.

Last season it would have been Edwards, Pilares or Alphabet Soup as the 4th guy. Maybe the two young guys weren’t ready.

"Puttin' DB's to sleep since '86-'87."

by ERL on Feb 17, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

number 4 wr? where is the option for 5th?

Pilares is the better receiver. He played that position in college for a year and actually has stats that we can look at. Edwards experience is incredibly limited at wr. It might not be a lot more experience but people can’t just make a claim that edwards has more potential! What is this based on exactly? All the ae ‘hate’ is pretty well balanced by all the ae ‘love’ if you ask me. I do actually believe that there’s a place on the team for ae, but only as a wildcat option and a punt returner, providing he works as hard as he did last season I think he can attain that.

Save us Pilares

by LimeyPanther on Feb 17, 2012 11:20 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

We don't really have a #5 WR. That's not really a 'role' in this offense.

If that’s where you think he should be then “punt returner” or ‘release him’ would be the available choices.

"Puttin' DB's to sleep since '86-'87."

by ERL on Feb 17, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Right...which is why I said release

If 5th option isn’t a role, then what role does he have?

by aceofsween on Feb 17, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

PR

But like I said in the article…he has to be a great (not elite but great) PR if he’s only gonna do one thing.

"Puttin' DB's to sleep since '86-'87."

by ERL on Feb 17, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

That #5 is filled by TE and TE #2 in this offense

Even see the RB sent out as a receiver. Very unlikely to see 5 WR’s trotted out at the beginning ot the play.

by panthersnbraves on Feb 17, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Cam Newton skill set

Coach Rivera has already stated that he wants to find a back up QB with a skill set more like Cam. Well maybe he already has it on the team with Armanti. He has excellent speed and a decent arm. Even if he is only #3 QB, he is just as good as Jimmy and will be cheaper.

by KClayton09 on Feb 17, 2012 11:36 AM EST reply actions  

On gamedays he was the #3 QB.

Since Jimmy didn’t dress and all.

"Puttin' DB's to sleep since '86-'87."

by ERL on Feb 17, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree

I say we cut Jimmy, resign Derek Anderson, and transition Armanti to #3QB and give Pilares a chance to be #4 WR and KR/PR

by KClayton09 on Feb 17, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

You're Armanti Edwards aren't you?

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on Feb 18, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

No one wants their 3rd string QB to actually play.

If you’re down to that guy… you’re screwed anyway.

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by Tater596 on Feb 17, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, I'm aware of that.

Now, if #1 or #3 got dinged up, then obviously you’d dress teh Jimmeh.

"Puttin' DB's to sleep since '86-'87."

by ERL on Feb 17, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

x

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

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by BW Smith on Feb 17, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL

How did I know something like this was coming?

by NX75649 on Feb 17, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Rec

Jim Varney R.I.P.

"If Grandma had balls she'd be Grandpa" Steve Smith

Proud member of the Panthers Mafia!

Saving The Environment One Green Comment at a Time

"I don't see no ceiling. I don't see no breaking point." - Cam Newton

by MMA_PITBULL on Feb 17, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL

This make me what to watch Ernest Goes to Camp (for the 62nd time).

"Puttin' DB's to sleep since '86-'87."

by ERL on Feb 17, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah...definitely an old school classic.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

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by BW Smith on Feb 17, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

[bites tongue]

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on Feb 18, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

It still bugs me that everyone hates on Armanti

It’s not his fault that such a high pick was lost because of the trade for him. People came in with way to high and unreasonable expectation. He was only in his 2nd year, he is brand new to the position, and he had no OTA’s this year. He didnt have any receiving stats because he didnt play and he didnt play because we dont use spread sets and rarely every use past our #3 WR. Most WRs dont break out until their 3rd year, and he has the added difficulty of not knowing the position. Has his production been worth the 33rd pick that we lost for him? no. but it’s not his fault that it was that pick and no one expected us to end up drafting that high anyway.

I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was

by pcroadrage on Feb 17, 2012 11:46 AM EST reply actions  

I agree

we was drafted to high and this si a late point for a change, but it can be done

I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was

by pcroadrage on Feb 17, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

That's not a defense though

Sure, it’s not his fault. I get that. I don’t blame him for where he was drafted.

Look at what he brings to the table though and tell me that production warrants any kind of merit.

by aceofsween on Feb 17, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

It doesnt warrant merit but it doesnt deserve critisizm either

it makes no since to cut him now. He has only been in the league for 2 years, you cant expect him to be busting it open yet, he needs time. So he might be the 4th or 5th WR, that doesnt mean he’s useless. We need to have 5 or 6 WRs anyway so why get rid of him while he’s still developing?

I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was

by pcroadrage on Feb 17, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's the scenario I see unfolding...

At WR we have:
Smith, LaFell, Gettis, Naanee, Alphabetsoup, Pilares, and then Armanti,

That’s 7 players already. If we only end up carrying 6, Armanti or Ajirotutu are the odd man out. That depends on if Naanee comes back (likely at this point I think). If we draft another WR and Naanee leaves, then we still have 1 man out.

If we draft another WR and Naanee comes back, then Armanti is done. It’s just that simple.

by aceofsween on Feb 17, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Alphabet Soup isn't exactly guaranteed a spot.

I wouldn’t say that if we bring it another WR and bring back Naanee then Armanti is automatically done. It’ll be either him or Ajirotutu, and Armanti at least is our punt returner and can do a few different things on offense.

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by Jake Humphrey on Feb 17, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I say alphabet soup and Naane are out

they were brought in because they were familiar, no longer needed. I’ll take Smith, Gettis, LaFell, Edwards/Pilarez, then maybe Adams. Knock some of them down a spot and get rid of Adams if we pick up someone new

I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was

by pcroadrage on Feb 17, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Check again...

If we bring back Naanee, and bring in another WR, then we would have 8 WRs on the roster.

We would likely only carry 6 in the season, meaning two of them are going to be cut. So who are you going to get rid of to make room for Armanti? Pilares?

by aceofsween on Feb 17, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

My mistake, I mis-read.

But in any other scenario, what I said still applies.

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by Jake Humphrey on Feb 17, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

When it comes down to AE or Ajirotutu

I see a WR in transition who hasn’t put it all together quite right vs. a guy who was an undrafted rookie in 2009 and debuted with a 111 yard game with Chargers.

We don’t really know much about Seyi cause he only showed up in plays here or there, but as it stands they are in a dead heat going into next season for the last WR spot…

And if we draft another WR… neither one of their chances are great.

by aceofsween on Feb 17, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

When you're on the bubble of the roster, the more things you can do the better.

I’m not here to debate what Armanti should or shouldn’t do but as it stands he’s our punt returner, our #3 QB on gamedays, and has a package in the playbook built for him even if we haven’t used it that often.

That plays in Armanti’s favor by more than a small amount.

Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91

by Jake Humphrey on Feb 17, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I disagree personally

Ajirotutu does play special teams and actually got some field time as a WR.

The gimmick plays we have for a WR at QB are fun and all, but Naanee showed we don’t need to keep AE to run those plays.

by aceofsween on Feb 17, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Naanee showed nothing of the sort

He isn’t a threat to throw it downfield (if we ever want to go there) and he isn’t as big a threat in space as Armanti.

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by Tater596 on Feb 17, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

When did Armanti catch 44 passes again? All Armanti is WHAT IF’s. He has never did ANYTHING where it counts and that is on Sunday

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by MMA_PITBULL on Feb 17, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Was talking about the wildcat factor

No need to be an ass about it.

PS- Naanee cost us plenty with dropped balls, particularly early on in the season.

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by Tater596 on Feb 17, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep... Nothing...

And AE is really lighting it up with his 11 yard “strikes” isn’t he?

by aceofsween on Feb 17, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

You're missing my point

Any professional football player can probably throw an accurate lateral to a 6’5" 250lb. freak athlete QB.

I’d like to see Naanee hit someone though on say a 30 yard Go route.

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by Tater596 on Feb 17, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

And before you go there.

No… I’m not implying Armantis completion was a long bomb, i know it was a swing pass. Just saying he is capable of more than that.

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by Tater596 on Feb 17, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually...

I was going to go with the fact that Naanee was a QB. It’s just that he converted to WR in college instead.

I know exactly what you’re saying. You (and just about every other ASU alum) have an undying faith in Edwards. All these arguments are based on what you perceive him to be capable of and quite frankly that’s an extremely frail way to frame an argument.

You speak of “potential” and “capabilities” all you want. I speak of results and what has actually happened. And Armanti hasn’t done anything yet. If he can put it together, that’s great. If you believe he can put it together, awesome for you. But how can you honestly sit there and defend his body of work?

by aceofsween on Feb 17, 2012 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

While looking up some stuff on Naanee, I found something interesting...

He had a better 40 time than Armanti (4.41 vs 4.43). Not that it matters, but it did surprise me.

by aceofsween on Feb 17, 2012 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

+1!

Rivera and his staff seem to like Armanti for the same reasons Marty did when he drafted him-because of his versatility. As a PR/wildcat/emergency QB, he fills 3 rolls with one roster spot. He will be given every opportunity come TC to make the team in this capacity and I’m confident he will. I just don’t get the “no upside” argument with AE. He’s approaching his 3rd year and has improved every year while just barely scratching the surface. Reserve judgement until after TC and preseason but I wouldn’t bet against him.

by blueridgecat on Feb 17, 2012 3:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Excuses other players don't get.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on Feb 18, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

1 more year

Maybe not to see him develope but rather to find a dual purpose replacement. With the need for DB additions I can see us picking up a young speedster who has some tried abilities at PR also. Keeping AE for one more year to either “break out” in the PR game or continue to be solid but also add some wild cat explosiveness that a mastermind like Chud can uncover, could be possible. What is the risk here? AE shows no progress or other roles to fill, and we keep a PR who doesn’t muff or fumble for one more year. Yes the price tag could be cheaper, but throwing inexperience in at PR can cost you more than the difference AE will. The same will hold true for Pilares if in 2012 he doesn’t do more than slightly above avg KR. They both need to add to the team in other ways or excel at the one they are in.

by Windy City Panther on Feb 17, 2012 1:22 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

I don't like him as a punt returner

But i’m willing to give him another year. I think he needs to just dart through the hole and hope they try to arm tackle him. Too much dancing around right now, one of these days he’s going to make the first guy miss and get completely blown up by the 2nd guy

In most of Patrick Peterson’s returns it looked like someone had an arm on him and the punting team thought he had him but peterson broke out and caught them off guard

CAM....CAAAAAAAAM

by CamNewtonSBMVP on Feb 17, 2012 5:21 PM EST reply actions  

Something you all might want to consider...

Armanti will make $490,000 in 2012. You kinda sorta haveta keep a 53 man roster these days. The minimum salary in 2012 for a Rookie is $390,000. There’s no business sense in cutting him.

I also want to re-emphasize the work Armanti did ON HIS OWN over last off season. BAMF was impressed. Now, I think history will repeat, and Armanti will work that much harder during this off season. BAMF will be impressed. Yes, he’s buried on the WR depth chart right now, much the same as Victor Cruz was two years ago. We don’t know what he is yet.

Also, I’ll predict that if we stash him on the Practice Squad, he won’t be there long. Typical young players need a couple of seasons (Cam is not typical) to figure out the NFL. With changing positions AND lockout, please. AE may fizzle or he may shine, but we don’t know yet.

And lastly, I will harken back to last year at this time, when so many were ready to cut ties with Smitty and Gamble. Let’s just not throw the baby out with the bathwater, m’kay? Read this highly reliable report from 2010 if you have doubts.

"Love is like a booger. You keep picking at it until you get it, then wonder what to do with it." : Author Unknown

by Rick Bates on Feb 17, 2012 8:41 PM EST reply actions  

Can he be put on the practice squad?
However, a player cannot participate on the practice squad for more than three seasons, or if he has accrued a year of NFL experience (six or more games on a club’s 53-man active roster or official Injured Reserve list.)

And apparently, a full season only constitutes being on the active roster for 10 games. Since he was our only punt returner and active all 16 games last season, he can’t be put on the practice squad.

by aceofsween on Feb 17, 2012 11:25 PM EST up reply actions  

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