Mocking in the Free World: Gil Brandt's Top 15
by James Dator on Feb 13, 2012 6:00 AM EST
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PrintThere is a controlled chaos to the NFL draft when it comes to pundits and prognosticators, meaning they control how the general public react, yet their methods are completely chaotic. That being said, Gil Brandt hit it out of the park this time last year when he swam against the tide and openly stated that the Carolina Panthers needed to select Cam Newton with the #1 overall pick. At that time he saw what nobody else did... an elite talent. It was only later that pundits started to join the party, and finally when it seemed like an inevitability that the Panthers would take Newton then they started to say "This is the right choice".
While I was in Australia I missed posting on the first edition of Brandt's 'Hot 100' in which he gives his 100 top prospects. After the jump I'll look at Brandt's top 15 and see how could potentially land in Carolina.
More after the jump
1. Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford
With a 71.3 completion percentage, 10,043 total yards and 80 touchdown passes, this kid is the complete package.2. Matt Kalil, OT, USC
A first-team All-Pac 12 selection, Matt is the younger brother of Panthers Pro Bowl lineman Ryan Kalil. He plays like him, too.3. Justin Blackmon, WR, Oklahoma State
His timed speed could drop him some, but it's hard to ignore 121 catches and 18 touchdowns last season.4. Robert Griffin III, QB, Baylor
He's the dual threat as a passer (72.4 completion percentage, 32 touchdowns in 2011) and runner (699 yards, 10 TDs) every coach dreams of.5. Quinton Coples, DE, North Carolina
A first-team All-ACC selection in 2010 and 2011, he's an all-out every-down player.6. Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU
A first team All-SEC selection last season, he had six interceptions. He's not very big at 5-foot-11 and 177 pounds, but he can return kicks.7. Riley Reiff, OT, Iowa
Reiff is a very good athlete who was a three-time South Dakota state wrestling champion.8. Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M
He's very smart, an excellent athlete and has the ability to take off if necessary.9. Alshon Jeffery, WR, South Carolina
He wasn't as good in 2011 as he was in 2010, and he's gained some weight since then. Still, he's a playmaker.10. Zach Brown, OLB, North Carolina
He's a good weak-side linebacker who was named first-team All-ACC last season. Nobody is likely to draft him in the top 10, though.11. Courtney Upshaw, LB, Alabama
Just how good is Upshaw? He's better than former Crimson Tide linebacker Rolando McClain, who was a first-round pick in 2010.12. Jonathan Martin, OT, Stanford
A two-year first team All-Pac 12 selection who made 36 career starts, Martin is a very good run blocker.13. Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame
Floyd's had some off-field problems, but he is a very good athlete who made 100 catches with nine touchdowns in 2011.14. Luke Kuechly, LB, Boston College
He finished with 191 tackles, 12 of them for loss, and had three interceptions last season. The only thing that could hurt him is a lack of speed.15. David DeCastro, G, Stanford
He made 38 straight starts at right guard. This kid reminds me of Vikings All-Pro guard Steve Hutchinson.
We're starting to see the same names for a reason- boards are starting to shape up. One curious absence from the top 15, a defensive tackle. Brandt has Devon Still as the top DT at #19, followed by Jerel Worthy at #20 and Michael Brockers at #25.
If the Panthers were to look on offense and they have a similar board to Brandt's it appears that Reiff, Jeffrey or Martin could all potentially be available, especially if QBs go earlier than expected... which they always tend to do.
One thing that's really exciting me about reading recent reports are the players that are slipping. It seems almost a lock that Clemson DT Brandon Thompson would be available in the second round, same with Virginia Tech CB Jayron Hosley. I've also read scouting reports that project Alshon Jeffrey and Luke Kuechly falling to the 2nd due to speed concerns- either in the 2nd round has me salivating!
What do you think of Brandt's list?
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I thought the knock on Coples was that he wasn't an all-out every-down player.
I saw him in a competition this weekend. I’d take him in a heartbeat.
With our needs, I still believe the Panthers would be better off trading down, particularly with the afore-mentioned second-rounders available. The biggest problem is that Marty doesn’t know what to do with a 2 {please see Brown, Clausen, and the pick given up for AE}.
The knock on Coples
is from these message boards. I don’t buy it. If he falls to us at 8 or 9, then it is a no brainer to take him. We are building a team and should take the best player that falls to us.
And over there in the tree, is a chipmunk nest. And that right there, is our corn, best in the city, it's delcious. And that is a crazy lady. So now you pretty much know what I do. Pretty dang exciting, huh?
He is VERY inconsistent similar to another UNC DE that was a headache for us for years because it seemed when we need him he was nowhere to be found. Coples will be a solid DE. When he decides he wants to be. But at this point he is nothing more then a less talented Peppers with the same piss poor work ethic
"If Grandma had balls she'd be Grandpa" Steve Smith
Proud member of the Panthers Mafia!
Saving The Environment One Green Comment at a Time
"I don't see no ceiling. I don't see no breaking point." - Cam Newton
by MMA_PITBULL on Feb 13, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Haha
I would take 5 headaches like Peppers. Is that work ethic you are referring to, documented? Peppers is arguably the greatest Panther we have had (on the defensive side). If he is sitting at 8 or 9, there is no quesiton or debate (unless for some bizzare reason Blackmon or Kalil is there).
Just as the above says he is an “every down player”, just like Peppers and just like every other every-down DE, you will not be in on every play. So god forbid he doesn’t make every sack and every tackle.
Another thing. Playing DE is an art, and there is a lot of baiting the OL. I have no problem with baiting and lullying the OL if you blow by them on several occasions.
And over there in the tree, is a chipmunk nest. And that right there, is our corn, best in the city, it's delcious. And that is a crazy lady. So now you pretty much know what I do. Pretty dang exciting, huh?
I'm not so sure I believe that, and I think a lot of these arguments were the product of groupthink.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Feb 13, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
And over there in the tree, is a chipmunk nest. And that right there, is our corn, best in the city, it's delcious. And that is a crazy lady. So now you pretty much know what I do. Pretty dang exciting, huh?
I agree with you here.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Feb 13, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
He got outplayed by Ingram in every comp..
"What up? We're three cool guys looking for other cool guys who wanna hang out in our party mansion. Nothing sexual. Dudes in good shape encouraged. If you're fat, you should be able to find humor in the little things." Again, NOTHING SEXUAL
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
you guys are like a bunch of pirahnas
by chop goes da weazel on Mar 31, 2011 12:32 PM PDT
by MikeTrain on Feb 13, 2012 10:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
LOL
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Feb 13, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Combine will split these hairs
What do you think of Brandt’s list?
Combine could change this… example If Jeffery comes in over weight he is out of the first round. If he comes in trim and looking good and runs 4.5 then he is mid to too 3rd of the round.
Robert Griffin has closed the gap on Luck and in some GM’s eyes if he does outstanding at the combine it could raise more eyebrows.. like if he runs a 4.3 40.. and a high potiental to wow in the interview process.
Blackmon could lose ground or gain ground based all on 40 times
Coples can dominate but could also disappear for 2 or 3 games… interviews will be the biggest with him because they are going to want to know why.
Luke Kuechly too me is a second round pick and the projection of him in the first is really fan talk. Not because he isn’t good. But because he isn’t dominate. And a inside linebacker in the first that high is hard to justify unless you are Ray Lewis or Brian ‘Urlacher’ (however you spell his name)… Luke isn’t that Tier of player.
example If Jeffery comes in over weight he is out of the first round. If he comes in trim and looking good and runs 4.5 then he is mid to too 3rd of the round.
meant to say he could be top 10 if he has a good combine
You've got me sold
On Jeffrey. I love the idea of this guy in our offense for all the reasons you have listed in other posts. I’ll welcome this guy to the team whether it’s at pick 8/9, a trade back or some miracle in the 2nd which I don’t see him making it out of the top 15 picks in the draft. No way he shows up out of shape unless he’s the next Jarret. Pick Alshon and then go all defensive from then on and I think we’ve got a great draft class. Can you imagine if we traded back to get jeffrey and ended up able to get brockers too? I’d be ecstatic.
by DoubleT-Dlo on Feb 13, 2012 9:30 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ryan Tannehill
This could be great news for Panther fans. If he goes this high, someone may want to trade up a few spots with us to grab him. I hope he does well at the combine!
I was a little surprised to see him this high
but I agree, it would only help our cause. He’s a classic example of a QB that gets drafted above slot. He has all the measurables, athleticism, and arm strength, but if he can show accuracy and footwork in private workouts and the combine, our 8th/9th pick could quickly become a hot commodity.
I absolutely do not understand the fascination with Tanneyhill
Unless its all on account of athleticism. Don’t get it.
not saying that I agree with the fascination but
it is because he has the size, athleticism, and smarts. He also has a strong arm so I have a feeling that if the Redskins can’t get RG3 then I think they might pull the trigger on Tannehill. The belief is that since he is so new to the position of QB, that he has a really high ceiling.
He only becomes the hot commodity for us,
if we win the flip, most teams will be afraid of Miami (depending on FA) grabbing him so there gonna want to get in front of them. So if we lose the flip the spot you want to be at is 7 so that your in front of miami….
Lol.
It’s hard not to hear him saying it isn’t it. Although, it would have taken him around 3 hours to get it all out. His football intelligence cannot be questioned, but he makes for awful radio with all of his rambling and “who gives a shit” player tidbits.
"Keep Pounding" -Sam Mills
Follow me on Twitter
He's a player analyst, is what he is
He loves to double talk like that. It sometimes makes him hard to listen to. He’s like 65 or 70, so I guess we’ll just have to excuse his rambling.
Iranian Air Defense Site: 'Unknown aircraft you are in Iranian airspace. Identify yourself.'
Aircraft: 'This is a United States aircraft. I am in Iraqi airspace.'
Air Defense Site: 'You are in Iranian airspace. If you do not depart our airspace we will launch interceptor aircraft!'
Aircraft: 'This is a United States Marine Corps FA-18 fighter. Send 'em up, I'll wait!'
Air Defense Site: (... total silence)
by Tarheel Soldier on Feb 13, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
I believe he's close to 80........
so yea, the rambling is to be expected. He’s one of the best evaluators of NFL talent to have ever lived though.
"Keep Pounding" -Sam Mills
Follow me on Twitter
Yes, lol.
But i’m a fan of Gil’s, even if he does say some confounded things sometimes.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Feb 13, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
While his ability to see in Newton what no one else saw
Gives him credibility with us Panther fans now a year later, I don’t think I totally agree with his board up there after his number 7. Hes promoting some very kids who greatly under performed in their college career, a few of them whom have shown to be content with just being on the field. I’d hold out on a few of them unless they are the only Best Player Available on the board at that time. Ryan Tannehill, Zac Brown, & Ashlon Jefferies that high? Are you kidding me?
Don't give up, don't ever give up ~ Jim Valvano
After listening to Gil Brandt for about a year
I think it’s fair to say he grades players on potential more than past performances. He also loves a dark horse. He seems to be able to see a quality in a player that goes beyond the system he played in. I’m not saying I would bet a million dollars on his draft rankings, but I certainly pay attemntion to what he says.
Iranian Air Defense Site: 'Unknown aircraft you are in Iranian airspace. Identify yourself.'
Aircraft: 'This is a United States aircraft. I am in Iraqi airspace.'
Air Defense Site: 'You are in Iranian airspace. If you do not depart our airspace we will launch interceptor aircraft!'
Aircraft: 'This is a United States Marine Corps FA-18 fighter. Send 'em up, I'll wait!'
Air Defense Site: (... total silence)
by Tarheel Soldier on Feb 13, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Frankly, I value Brandt's opinion much more than most online mock draft people.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Feb 13, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Ditto
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Feb 13, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
I would love to see a trade back scenario
where we could gain two first. I know this is a huge stretch but I would love for it to happen. I have been wanting us to grab Jeffery and Kirkpatrick and would be ecstatic if that would happen. I highly doubt it will but that would be my favorite draft in awhile. I know we have needs elsewhere and probably bigger need then WR but I believe Jeffery can be a playmaker and I think getting Kirkpatrick would allow our defense to give some different looks. Those two picks are with the mindset that all they guys that are injured come back healthy. My outlook would change if they do not believe Davis, Beason, Otah, or Edwards would not be 100%.
Even if that scenario doesn’t happen. I hope we still trade back because someone wants to try and grab Tannehill that high. We need a couple extra picks so we can fulfill some needs and start the reign of consecutive playoff appearances this year.
by Smith is alegend on Feb 13, 2012 8:40 AM EST reply actions
Its not inconsiderable,
but thats only if we win the flip with miami, there are gonna be people who consider jumping ahead of miami to pick tannehill, so if we win the flip I very well see a trade back scenerio but my guess would be for this years first and a third and next years first. I doubt we will pull a second first rounder out of the deal THIS year. But imagine post draft next year with 3 “Marty Hurney” first round draft choices! Ive began to ramble…. lol
I'm not sure about a couple of spots on this list, myself.
Honestly, I think RG3 has a chance at upstaging Luck for the #1 spot — as it stands, I’m not sold on Luck because his stats are inflated by an overall weak strength of schedule, and I think whoever drafts him will find that he won’t have near that level of production, at least not at first. He may prove to be a good QB in time, but I look at Luck and see Colin Kaepernick from Nevada, but without the rushing capability Kaepernick had. But if the Colts really want to make a splash and move from Peyton Manning, RG3 might just be the dynamic they need — the Colts will just have to make sure they can give him an additional weapon or two (and try to keep as many of their FAs as possible, like Reggie Wayne and Jeff Saturday), and build that defense up so that it isn’t so lackluster.
As for the rest… as much criticism as Coples gets, why he’s ranked so highly is beyond me — though I admit, I’ve not really studied him and so can’t really say whether he’s truly worth being #5 or not. I also notice that Dre K isn’t on the top 15 here — I’m suspecting because of the marijuana possession, which has since been thrown out of court.
Kirkpatrick
A lot of big boards have him ranked in the 20’s b/c he may have to move to FS. If that’s the case, your better served going with Mark Barron. I’d rather have Janoris Jenkins if we are to take a corner. Thug or not, the guy can cover.
He can't cover sitting in a jail cell
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Feb 13, 2012 11:22 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
If i was in a jail cell i know what I'd be covering.
by sperk on Feb 13, 2012 12:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
Bahaha
I was going to say something about that, but decided to keep it PG.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Feb 13, 2012 12:11 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
LOL
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Feb 13, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Why isn't this green?
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
jenkins has grown up a little recently
Shame really, he’d have been an absolute steal in the second.
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Feb 13, 2012 9:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Kind of unrelated to the top prospects...
Am I the only one who likes player # 100 on the list? Ryan Broyles? I understand he was dealing with an injury for much of the year, and that still may be a concern, but I’d take a flyer on him in the 4th round if we have yet to pick a WR—or if we didn’t sign one in free agency.
We need a nose tackle.
Multiple injuries, and we have plenty of backup and slot WRs...
No thanks
"What up? We're three cool guys looking for other cool guys who wanna hang out in our party mansion. Nothing sexual. Dudes in good shape encouraged. If you're fat, you should be able to find humor in the little things." Again, NOTHING SEXUAL
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
you guys are like a bunch of pirahnas
by chop goes da weazel on Mar 31, 2011 12:32 PM PDT
by MikeTrain on Feb 13, 2012 10:28 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Who? Pilares? Armanti? Not sure Broyles isn’t better than both of them. Not sure he’s not better than anyone not named Smith, Lafell or Gettis.
We need a nose tackle.
I like Broyles a lot too. Does everything well. Most receptions in NCAA history, never drops the ball, good route runner. This guy could be a steal in the third or fourth round.
by JStewart28 on Feb 13, 2012 11:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm with you, I could see him being a slower, less choleric Smitty.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Feb 13, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Ya know, it's funny...
Hurney has a history of taking Need over BPA (shocking, isn’t it!?) and it has worked out exceptionally for us. In fact, the times he has gone BPA have arguably been where he has made mistakes.
My point is this: the Panthers are going to target players who fit into the system they want to run. They will target players who they believe will make an immediate impact. And they will not care who is considered “BPA” while they do this. If the Panthers are convinced that someone can come in and deliver, that is who they will draft. Perceived BPAs be damned.
That's just not true
Hurney has almost always gone bpa. What do you call taking peppers when already had Jenkins Buckner and Rucker and needed youth at QB? We took Dlo when we already had Steven Davis and Deshaun foster. What do you call taking Stewart when we had Dlo? Beason when we had Morgan? We took gamble in the 1st when we had Doug Evans I believe. Hurney has always preached BPA over reaching for need.
by DoubleT-Dlo on Feb 13, 2012 10:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I think the mistakes have come when he sees 'player X' still there, and excitedly trades a pick or two to move up to get him.
Clausen and Brown would be examples of mistakes made while using the BPA philosophy…
We need a nose tackle.
by ERL on Feb 13, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree about the player X statement
Armanti is a good example of that. I remember reading about Armanti Pre draft and how he’d be a good option to look at in the 5th or 6th and I was thinking awesome. Love me some home grown talent I hope grab him when the 6th round comes up. Then bam we took him as early as we did. Boy was I heated lol. And I can’t get mad about the JC pick. It’s well documented that kid had no chance 2 years ago. Jon beason, J stew, Gamble, Peppers, Gross, TD, all examples of BPA successes. Looking at other successful teams like the packers you can see the BPA strategy working again. Rodgers when they already had farve and raji when they already had Cullen Jenkins.
by DoubleT-Dlo on Feb 13, 2012 11:14 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
In my personal opinion, no one ever uses the BPA stradegy exclusively. You can't.
For example: We won’t pick RG3 if he’s still there at 8 (yeah, I know he won’t be). At some point you have to think about where the player fits on your team.
Hurney uses a successful blend of both, IMO. What I think he really means when he talks about BPA is essentially: ‘We won’t reach for need.’
We need a nose tackle.
Agreed
But at the sometime you can clearly see where we took BPA when we had no need at all. J stew a year after Dlo is the most prominent example. But of course i agree w you I believe Hurney just like all gms has a board w a mix of need and BPA.
by DoubleT-Dlo on Feb 13, 2012 11:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yup, Ryan Kalil is a good example
We had absolutely no need for a Center when he was drafted, but he was just too good to pass up, now he a periennial Pro Bowler. I think that was one of Hurney’s best moves. Unfortunately, the “great moves” list is kinda short. I think Hurney may be on a short leash this year. He’s made more than a few flubs in recent drafts, and we just can’t afford to keep missing in the draft if that is our primary source of talent. Last season’s draft wasn’t bad, but other than Cam, it wasn’t that amazing either.
Iranian Air Defense Site: 'Unknown aircraft you are in Iranian airspace. Identify yourself.'
Aircraft: 'This is a United States aircraft. I am in Iraqi airspace.'
Air Defense Site: 'You are in Iranian airspace. If you do not depart our airspace we will launch interceptor aircraft!'
Aircraft: 'This is a United States Marine Corps FA-18 fighter. Send 'em up, I'll wait!'
Air Defense Site: (... total silence)
by Tarheel Soldier on Feb 13, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Kalil
Is a great example I left him out bc I believe he was a 3rd round pick and my list is just the 1st rounders. I disagree about Hurney being on a short leash though. I think last years draft was mostly RR’s call. Now if you mean a shorter leash as in less freedom to trade picks then I agree
by DoubleT-Dlo on Feb 13, 2012 11:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's too early to evaluate the success of last years draft.
We’ll know more this season, but next year will tell the story.
"Keep Pounding" -Sam Mills
Follow me on Twitter
Oh it's not?
You should do your homework. James did.
Last year James wrote up a great set of articles identifying BPA vs. Need and “surprisingly” the Panthers selected need over BPA almost every time between 2002 and 2008. The few notable exceptions were Julius Peppers (clearly the BPA) and DeAngelo Williams (who was both Need and BPA).
Jordan Gross? Need. Chris Gamble? Need. Thomas Davis? Need, and not even the best LB prospect. Jonathon Stewart? Need.
7 Need-picks with our first selections since 2001 with 5 BPA-picks. Of those, Williams counts twice (because he was both a Need and clear BPA) and Newton wasn’t counted at all. The Need picks included Gross, Gamble, Morgan, Davis, Williams, and Stewart. The BPA picks were Peppers, Williams (again), Otah, Brown, and Clausen.
I think the clear winner here is Needs for us. Our only successful BPA outside of Peppers has been Williams, who was as much a Need as he was BPA. Otah can’t stay healthy, Brown isn’t even on the team anymore, and by all accounts Clausen will be following him shortly.
How was Stewart a need?
We drafted Dlo the year before. Find me a team that drafts a runningback back to back seasons in the 1st round bc of need. Clearly that was BPA. Which would make it 6-6. Hurney has always preached BPA though. And I actually read that article when James wrote it. I’ve been a lurker on this site since 08 so no need to pull articles. My point is withdrawn o forgot about this article
by DoubleT-Dlo on Feb 13, 2012 4:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Trade back
whats the possibility of trading our 8/9 to Cincy for their 17 and 21
The cincy bloggers
Said no chance. They said they’ve got too many needs and Trent richardson isn’t very gihighly ranked on there board. I’d assume try know there bengals like we knownour panthers but that didn’t stop csr from saying they were wrong just so they could continue to speculate trade back possibilities lol.
by DoubleT-Dlo on Feb 13, 2012 11:35 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's just not going to happen.
They’ve got their QB and WR. Anyone else they “need” will be there at one of their later picks. I think they’ll at least be there till the 12-15 range.
"Keep Pounding" -Sam Mills
Follow me on Twitter
If Richardson is still there at 8 it's a possibility, I suppose.
But if they passed on a player like Julio Jones last year to get those two picks, they’ll probably keep them.
We need a nose tackle.
We're not going to get 17 and 21.
I could see us getting 17 and their second if they wanted to move up to guarantee they got Trent Richardson.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Feb 13, 2012 12:06 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Like I just said
The cincy bloggers said the team isn’t that high on Richardson. It was a back and forth between jaxon and one of there writers. They said they’ve got 2 many needs to be trading extra picks and that they don’t believe they will be trading any picks away. I think it’s kind of arrogant to disregard what they think about there team. When you consider the wealth of knowledge here on CSR about our panthers, I’m sure it’s the same way over there. If they say no way they trade I’d bet it’s a safe bet. I’m sure there are rams or redskins fans thinking I wonder if the panthers will trade up for Blackmon. 10 minutes on our blog site would show that hell no we won’t.
by DoubleT-Dlo on Feb 13, 2012 12:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Which is why I said "if"
Not once did I accuse them of not knowing what they were talking about.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Feb 13, 2012 1:14 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Like I just said
The cincy bloggers said the team isn’t that high on Richardson. It was a back and forth between jaxon and one of there writers. They said they’ve got 2 many needs to be trading extra picks and that they don’t believe they will be trading any picks away. I think it’s kind of arrogant to disregard what they think about there team. When you consider the wealth of knowledge here on CSR about our panthers, I’m sure it’s the same way over there. If they say no way they trade I’d say it’s a safe bet that they are right. I’m sure there are rams or redskins fans thinking I wonder if the panthers will trade up for Blackmon. 10 minutes on our blog site would show that hell no we won’t.
by DoubleT-Dlo on Feb 13, 2012 12:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I broached this trade to some of the Cincy guys over on Mocking the Draft.
Two firsts is unrealistic to me as well, but swapping firsts and giving up a second would be a win for both teams. They seemed to be against this idea. They got an article up on Cincy Jungle right now about swapping firsts and giving up a 3rd and 4th, and it seems like 75% of the fanbase is against that too. Plus some of the guys believe Mike Brown just would not trade regardless.
Personally I don’t get it. You get the best RB prospect in some time in Richardson to address a big need, and he would pair nicely with your offensive studs Green and Dalton. Plus you still have a first round pick to fill the holes in the secondary or to use on the O-line.
"You know the new iPhone? It’s faster, more powerful and smarter. It’s revolutionary. Why can’t the quarterback be like that? Why can’t you be a big, tall, fast, quick, strong, smart, mobile quarterback who’s unstoppable?"
-Cam Newton
by carolinapillpusher on Feb 13, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
I think their point is that they don't believe they will need to trade up to get him.
Personally, I don’t think Richardson is worth that much compensation. There are always good RB’s later in the draft. In the mean time, they could bring in someone like Marshawn Lynch or maybe even Mike Tolbert or Steve Slayton.
At the end of the day, they would probably be talking to Buffalo anyway. No need to trade up to 8-9 if you can get the guy you want at 10. I could see Kansas City or Seattle jumping on Richardson if he’s still around, but those are about the only two. Buffalo could move down and still get a decent pass rusher at 17.
"Keep Pounding" -Sam Mills
Follow me on Twitter
I see a more likely scenerio
of getting a first and third and a next years first before i see two firsts this year… And that will only be if we win the flip if so people may want to get in front of miami for tannehill.
BPA is my vote here.
We can’t afford to miss on this pick. Its crucial that we get a future starter out of this pick. I’d rather have depth because we picked a good player than be pissed that we wiffed on a guy who we tried to make work.
by Cam2SmittyAllDay on Feb 13, 2012 12:03 PM EST reply actions
This is why I am where I am on Brockers, Still\Poe
At this point, give me either of the latter. Still looks to be a versatile three-down player who will penetrate the backfield against the run and the pass. Poe looks like he can be that 1st and 2nd down anchor. With either of those guys, you get someone you know is going to fill at least one role on the football team. Brockers, as he is right now, is not polished enough in any aspect of his game where you know he will contribute immediately.
We need a nose tackle.
I'm in the same boat.
I like Still because he’s an immediate impact-type player. He may not have the massive upside of Brockers, but if you’re looking for an immediate upgrade like we are…
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Feb 13, 2012 12:13 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I haven't looked much into Poe, but I keep seeing his name in some guys' top 10, even though I could swear the consensus was he is a 2nd rounder?
Do you (or anyone else for that matter) have any light to shed on Poe? His measurables are certainly good at first glance (at least, for what we’ve been missing), but I have no clue how he actually performed in college lol
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Also, although I am very optimistic about Brockers' upside, it makes me no less a fan of Still...
I like what I’ve seen out of Still, and from what I’ve seen he definitely keeps the motor running through the entire play (something which cannot be underestimated, especially for D-Lineman).
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
I can't tell you a whole lot about Poe.
I saw two Memphis games the last two seasons. But he is as advertised. You can’t move him. If teams broke off big runs against them, it was on off-tackles or on tosses/sweeps.
His value is slowly creeping up because teams see him as a centerpiece of a defense in the mold of Gilbert Brown or Ted Washington. Guys like that are rare, so if you want one you’ve gotta strike early.
The market value of a good NT is certainly increasing his stock.
We need a nose tackle.
Poe is a beast. Plain and simple.
He’s incredibly strong, he’s a force against the run, and he can push the pocket. He’s pretty raw, but in a year or two he can be a better version of Terrance Knighton.
Panther Pride 'till I die.
Sounds bueno to me lol
We need that kind of interior push more than anything on defense; it was infuriating how many times this season Hardy or CJ would round the corner perfectly, only to have the QB just take a step or two forward with no concern about the interior push. I mean, it helps with the run D obviously as well lol but that was always the difference between losing Maake and losing Jenkins: Our run D suffered when either was out, but when Jenkins was on the line we could just rack up the pass pressure with our front 4 alone (and we certainly have the DE talent to make that happen again)!
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
If we're sitting in the second round
With Thompson, Jeffery, and Kuechly sitting on the board i will cry with happiness.
"What do you want to say to those critics now?"
"Just sit back and watch the show." -Cam Newton
Screw both
Jeffery/ Kirkpatrick. We need a nasty DE that can help us get PRESSURE (or a DT that can help alleviate the double teams that Big Money faced constantly). We were near dead last in sacks/pressure this past year. Having the best secondary and a shitty defensive line doesn’t bode very well. Games are won at the trenches and right now we need major help. As much as I love the Kracken, he is a rotational player at best and God awful against the run.
by Martin LatinFire Gonzalez on Feb 13, 2012 8:46 PM EST reply actions
When?
Can someone give me an example of us trading back in the the 1st round of the draft? I only remember the last couple of years and that’s giving away picks. If we follow BPA then trading back is not an option…The philosophy of getting the BPA would not allow for a tradeback. Maybe 1 or 2 spots but not 9 or more spots.
I am not for trading back. I say we get the BPA period. There isn’t a position that we do not need besides QB and RB. And at pick 8/9 the BPA available won’t be either. I don’t expect Trent to be there and definitely not luck or rg3.
by DoubleT-Stewart on Feb 13, 2012 9:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions
We traded back the year we took Beason.
We also got Kalil as part of that trade.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Feb 13, 2012 10:25 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Thanks
That definitely paid off then. I still don’t see us trading back this year.
by DoubleT-Stewart on Feb 13, 2012 10:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think Coples talent with Rivera's no nonsense coaching
is a great combo in Round 1. I can see Johnson or Hardy moving inside in passing situations and Coples and Applewhite at ends for a real headache pass rush for opponents.
Coples has experience at DT
So I’d be moving him inside.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Feb 13, 2012 10:25 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I can see ya'll trading with the Bears
They will want your spot to grab Floyd or Jeffery, and you can use their middle of the pack pick on Dontari Poe. You want to stop the run, stick that guy in the middle of your line and see how many people get through.
I broached this topic previously and everyone seemed to think highly of it
But I think the most likely trade partner could be the New York Jets. I won’t dig into all the points I stated before because they can be looked up, but simply the Jets NEED another HB. LT is gone and Greene hasn’t shown much potential. Ground and Pound is how they made it to 2 AFC championships and Richardson will heavily intrigue them to help take pressure off Sanchez’s mediocrity and the locker room feud from last season. In this trade scenario we move from pick 8/9 to pick 16 and also gain an additional 2nd rounder. (The precedence for this area/value of trade is from last years Redskins/Jaguars trade.)
I heard Jeffery ran a 4.88 40 somewhere
If thats true, that will kill his draft stock.
by Smith is alegend on Feb 14, 2012 8:40 AM EST reply actions
I hope it isn't true
and I wish I could remember where I saw it.
by Smith is alegend on Feb 14, 2012 8:40 AM EST up reply actions
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