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NFL related topics and ideas about our draft


So I got a couple things on my mind, and I wanted to get it out there. The first is the Hall of Fame. I just read an article about the Hall of Fame that bugged me. I also think the way we evaluate draft picks is kind of skewed. We're tricked into believing that a guy could be worthy of 11 overall, but not 9. And then there are some scenarios I think are possible, and I wonder how you would feel about it.

Star-divide

So I read an article about Eddie DeBartolo and how he deserves to get intot the Hall of Fame. I completely agree with that. He was the owner of the 49ers when they had 16 straight 10 win seasons, 10 trips to the NFC Champioship Game, and five Superbowl wins. At the end of the article, though, Jim Trotter mentioned that he is looking forward to the conversation about Eddie's chances to get in as a Hall of Fame voter. Why does Jim Trotter get a say so in who goes to the Hall of Fame? I think media guys voting is the reason why guys who campaign are more likely to get in, and other great players like Cris Carter and Tim Brown have to wait. I mean, really, would you rather have Andre Tippett on your team, or Cris Carter? I don't understand how 44 reporters are the decision committee for the Hall, and no players have any say so.

My opinion of evaluating players for the draft is that I don't understand how a guy could be good enough for the 10th pick, but not the 4th pick. If you think a guy can be your long-term starter for the next decade, then you should be willing to pick him anywhere in the 1st round. If you can get him later for a lower price, I understand that aspect, but if you think he'll start, then he's worth it. To me, Andy Dalton is the perfect example. If you think a guy can be your franchise QB, then he's worth a 1st rd pick. But how is a guy worth the 12 pick, and not the 9th? If you think Dre Kirkpatrick can be a long-time starter and top tier CB, then he is good enough to be picked anywhere in the 1st round by a team that needs him.

My last comment is the what if game in draft fashion. If Trent Richardson is available, would you be okay with us trading D-Will for a 3rd rounder and picking Richardson? I ask this because some people are really high on him. I don't see him as a top 10 pick, and I'd be disappointed with this move, but anything's possible. Also, of all the guys who are supposedly top 10 or 15 picks, is there anyone you absolutely DO NOT WANT...besides Luck?

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Thought provoking museing for sure.

THe HOF for any sport is an oddity in our modern world. The closest thing I could compare it to is History, were the influnently people, events, and places of the the past are deemed worthy enough to be remember and recalled for future generations. I know of in the past in Rome when anceint Olympians that achevied greatness where panted in murals, as wells as the great Gladiators of the Colloseum.
But I belive the power of History lays within the grasp of the writer. And in todays world they are millions of such people recording there own little bit of history. It is my guess that respected members of those who record the great feats in sports are chosen for there perspective as historians of sorts. To be able to look back and forward and now that player A desevers to be remebered for his/hers accomplishments. THe flaw is that history is writen and picked by us humans who are flawed so not everyone will be happy.

I see your point about the rank of players in the draft. I think it is more a product of over used terminology than anything else. The measurement of “talant” is a ficikle thing that relys almost as much on opion as fact.

I would really like to draft some help for the o-line or d-line. Our foundations on both sides of the ball are showing their cracks. Ty for the post man.

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by bigred28655 on Feb 1, 2012 12:44 PM EST reply actions  

I don't think it's about being 'worth' the 9th or 12th pick.

It’s about where that player would be picked if you took yourself out of the picture. Teams want to maximize their pick in the first round. Same thing happens with fantasy drafts…

The top QBs usually out-score the top RBs when you look at the top performers at the end of the season. But people will draft RBs first because if they don’t—they won’t get an elite RB.

It’s not about worth. It’s about the market’s perception of that player.

We need a nose tackle.

by ERL on Feb 1, 2012 2:44 PM EST reply actions  

My two cents

The HoF voting is a joke overall. I believe that for every major sport because each league has deserving guys who are snubbed. Quite frankly, stats should only be considered part of a player’s eligibility. Team success during the player’s tenure and how the game was played (accounting for rule changes, PEDs, etc). Another aspect that needs to be considered is character and the contributions made to the sport. I know I am reaching but too many guys who have done a lot of good for professional sports always seemed to get overlooked.

As for the draft, you are right about a players worth. If a team feels a player can change the fortunes of the franchise and pick at #10 when the player is ranked #18, then do it. Experts aren’t always right. However, I feel Carolina has a good thing going with both of their RBs so to trade D-Will for a third rounder and draft Richardson would not make much sense to me. However, if a team offered us a package too good to resist, then sure go for it. I just don’t think trading a proven RB and drafting a rookie RB is goid business. There are many other areas to address and if this draft is done right, subsequent drafts can be centered on shoring up the depth chart.

Integrity first. Service before self. Excellence in all you do. -- USAF Core Values

by Disciple of Carolina on Feb 1, 2012 2:50 PM EST reply actions  

i agree about not trading D-Will

I’ve heard some people say that if Trent Richardson is the BPA when we pick, we should pick him. I’d rather have an OL or DL, unless there is a CB available who is clearly better.

Based on how you think players should be evaluated for the HoF, would you say Terrell Davis should get in, and what about receivers? Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, T.O., Randy Moss, Marvin Harrison, Cris Carter, Andre Reed and Tim Brown.

by usana_gaines on Feb 1, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

You put me on the spot so here goes

Honestly, I am on the fence about TD. He has been instrumental in helping Denver to two championships, earned a SB MVP in one of them, was a league MVP and a three time Pro Bowler. However, he played for only seven seasons rushing for 7,607 yards and 60 touchdowns. He ranks #47 all time on the career rushing leader list. Based on those numbers, where there are five active players with more rushing yards, I would say no. However, TD has better numbers than Hall of Famer Gale Sayers and won two championships vs Sayers’ none. Based on that, I would say yes…HoF. So, I will say that TD should be in the Hall because his career was cut short by injury. When he was playing, his team was dangerous.

I will post my thoughts on the others in this thread later.

Integrity first. Service before self. Excellence in all you do. -- USAF Core Values

by Disciple of Carolina on Feb 1, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

As for the others....

This was tough because I needed to look at stats, personal accolades, championships won and effect on their respective teams. In my opinion, if the Rams are lacking Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce there is no “Greatest Show on Turf”. Both rank in the top ten amongst receiving yards and helped the Rams to a championship. No doubt they are both Hall of Famers.

The controversial duo known as Terrell Owens and Randy Moss was really hard to determine. There is no arguing the talent these men possessed and the headaches they gave opposing defenses. Among the all time receiving yards leaders, these two are in the top ten. They are tied at second all time behind Jerry Rice with 153 TD receptions. Now, the tricky part. T.O has been labled a cancer in the locker room, calling out teammates and making himself a public spectacle both on and off the field. Moss was no different. His antics on the field paled slightly in comparison to Owens but those off the field rivaled him. I honestly think these guys wasted their talents because of their ever growing egos…namely T.O. With Moss, I cannot help but wonder what would have happened if he had played to his full potential with Oakland, especially in 2006 when he caught 42 passes for 553 yards and 3 TDs. His comments about his game focus and/or motivation set the table for his trade to New England. Some Panther fans may remember Chris Gamble and Chris Harris calling out Moss saying he gave up during the game. Even though, the numbers are incredible, these two have two Super Bowl appearances but no rings. So, I say no to the Hall for both of these guys.

Marvin Harrison had the luxury of having Peyton Manning throw to him during his career. He caught 1,102 passes for 14,580 yards and 128 TDs. He helped the Colts to a championship and despite an issue involving his car wash, hasn’t had any major off field troubles. Hall of Fame…yes.

Cris Carter put up similar numbers as Harrison without having a QB as talented as Manning. His line of 1,101/13,899/130 are very impressive but he has no championship ring to show for his efforts. Despite this, I say he gets a nod to the Hall. Which brings me to…

Andre Reed and what he did for the Bills in the early 90s. Reed’s numbers put him below everyone else on this list but he still ranks #12 in all time receiving yards. He was part of a talented Bills team that appeared in four Super Bowls but never won a title. He gets my vote for the HoF. I think he misses the Hall if not for the four AFC titles in a row. Appearing in one Super Bowl is tough enough, but four consecutive is almost unheard of anymore.

Finally, there is Tim Brown. He is #4 on the all time receiving yards list and a member of the 1990s All Decade team. He reeled in 105 TDs in his career but never won a championship. Based on what he was able to do, I think he is HoF bound.

I hope that sheds some light on what I think. I am not in any way trying to incite a debate. I am merely answering a question based on my opinions.

Integrity first. Service before self. Excellence in all you do. -- USAF Core Values

by Disciple of Carolina on Feb 1, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

The HOF is just plain dumb.

Draft experts and how they evaluate talent is also on the silly side. Their evaluations are loaded with dumb opinions and biases. I sometimes wonder if a draft “expert” has even seen highlights of some of the players that they are spewing shit about. Think Jimmy Clausen and Mel Kiper, WTF was he watching?

For the next few months we will watch dummies (aka experts) attempt to build hype about the Colts actually having a tough decision between Luck and Griffith? Talk about bullshit.

Getting back to that HOF stuff, how many dipshits would call Steve Smith a borderline HOFer? Only if you don’t know jack shit about football. In a world where people know what they are talking about, Smitty gets in easily, and that’s not homerism talking.

As far as the Trent Richardson idea. I think it’s more likely that BAMF takes LaMichael James in the 2nd than he is Richardson in the 1st. You heard it here first.

Welcome to the Cam Cave

by jdough on Feb 1, 2012 4:52 PM EST reply actions  

I'm assuming from one of your comments that you....

believe the Colts have an easy decision to make when it comes to who they should draft #1 overall. I agree completely with you. Of the two choices, Griffin is clearly the better QB.

by Derek Leazer on Feb 1, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Got a link for the first item about DeBartolo?

You make a very good point about the draft…if you can trade back and still get the guy or a guy you really want then sure, but it is much easier than said.

Can’t say I would trade D-Will for a 3rd or draft Richardson for that matter when we have Stewart. I would instead see if anyone wants to trade up for him and if not go for a defender. Now he may be that high on Hurney’s board but he wouldn’t be one mine. Richardson will be good, he will be durable and he will be reliable. But I don’t see him in the realm of AP, Foster and Rice.

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by Jaxon on Feb 1, 2012 6:33 PM EST reply actions  

Speaking of HoF ...

I am STILL trying to understand why so few FULLBACKS make it to the Hall.
The running backs, (tailbacks?) make it. The linemen who block for them make it.
Why not the fullbacks who ALSO block for them?
Deserving, not recognized.

by criolle on Feb 2, 2012 8:18 AM EST reply actions  

I agree completely

Lorenzo Neal was a beast. FBs are also critical to pass protection. Matt Suhey and Daryl Johnston did a lot of good work in their prime, too…4 Superbowls between them.

by usana_gaines on Feb 2, 2012 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

What if...

The Colts trade Manning to the Jets for their 2012 1st and some stuff. Then the Colts want Richardson, so they trade their original 33rd and the Jets’ pick (16) for our number 8/9?

Deal or no deal? And who would you pick? I’d go Mercilus, Ta’amu and J Jenkins with the first three picks.

by BSKincaid on Feb 2, 2012 11:48 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

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