Balance: Is It All It's Cracked Up To Be?
Conventional wisdom in most things is to work on your weaknesses before practicing your strengths. However, in the modern NFL conventional wisdom is quickly flying out the window. This old way of thinking never would have predicted the degree of success Cam Newton and Andy Dalton saw in 2011, nor would have conventional wisdom ever considered Tim Tebow a QB who could beat the NFL's #1 defense in the playoffs. Like it or not, we're losing old axioms and cliches by the boatload, and while much of this is due to the NFL's rules, some are due to new ways of thinking when approaching team building.
Each time there's a topic about what to do in the draft without fail there's at least one comment stating that doing anything on offense would be a waste, and that the obvious move is to bolster the defense. Conventional wisdom agrees, the Carolina Panthers should do everything in their power to aid their mediocre defense... but is the concept of team balance all it's cracked up to be?
More after the jump
Look no further than these NFL playoffs to see how skewed the league is right now. With the exception of the Atlanta Falcons there is not one team who are in the postseason who have what we could call 'balance'.
- Green Bay: 3rd in offense, 32nd in defense
- San Francisco: 4th in defense, 26th in offense
- New Orleans: 1st in offense, 24th in defense
The list goes on... In fact, there are scant few teams who have an offense and defense ranked within 10 places of each other this season. While there are many reasons this is the case, there's something to be said for building a team with one, near unbeatable strength and leverage that to make up for your glaring deficiencies on the other side of the ball.
In approaching how we move forward this off-season I think we could learn a lot from the teams still playing. I suppose my question is: What gets us closer to dominance? Is there a single defensive player who could fill the myriad problems we have? I don't think so. However, I think most would agree that at most the Panthers need talent upgrades at just two positions to have the kind of offenses we are seeing from New Orleans and New England, that's a RT and WR. Whether you want to hedge your bets on David Gettis or Jeff Otah, you're still relying on one of two injured players to return and fill those holes, neither is an enviable situation.
So I posit that perhaps balance isn't what the doctor ordered as it comes to the draft. I think the best analog to look at is the Detroit Lions. They allowed just 2.7 pts less than us per game in 2011, yet they scored 4.2 pts more per game than us, small margins for sure, but if the Panthers scored 4 pts more per game they would have gone 8-8 this season, and personally I like the addition of Jon Beason alone to save us a field goal a game.
Some early week food for thought, but does it really benefit us more to add one piece to an already busted puzzle, or is it more pertinent to add the final piece to a beautiful picture?
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if anything, I guess it gives credence to the idea of drafting BPA
therefore you just get the best possible value on either side of the ball, thus improving your team as a whole
by vitzeng on Jan 9, 2012 6:11 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I was wondering the same..if our defense can get better at getting stops on 3rd and long it could go a long way to help out the D as well as give Cam and company more chances to score. Countless times we had teams in 3rd and 10+ only to give up the big play. I agree guys off IR will help. Honestly in the top 10 I feel we got to get a impact player. Rather on the line, Offensive or Defensive. or Play maker rather at WR or CB we got to get somebody who can help us out the gate be a better team.
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"I don't see no ceiling. I don't see no breaking point." - Cam Newton
3rd and long has been killer
And the only solution to that is that we need to improve the pass rush by getting more interior pressure. Right now, we have allowed opposing QBs too much time to throw on 3rd and long, even when we send a blitz. Maybe getting our starting LBs back and fresh next season is the partial cure… but if we send 6 or 7 on a blitz, we have to get there. Right now, we just aren’t.
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by Tater596 on Jan 9, 2012 8:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We do need more interior pressure
But we could upgrade from Hardy too. I love his upside, but he got his hands on the QB only 14 times this year. Johnson either sacked or hit the QB 23 times this year and he missed a game and battled a back injury all year.
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 8:29 AM EST up reply actions
We COULD upgrade Hardy, but I think he'd benefit from some inside help as well
I also think that we are just beginning to scratch the surface of Hardy’s potential. Next year will be his 3rd season in the league, and we should see the benefit of all that training and maturation. I think if we get some inside help, we will have more weapons on the line than the OL can account for, and we’ll start seeing more QBs hit the ground.
Point being, Big Money is a great DE, Hardy is at least a good one with potential greatness.
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Oh, I like Hardy just fine.
And I hope he does break out, because we’re going to need more than four sacks out of our other DE. Obviously, everyone would benefit from inside help.
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
you can never have enough good lineman. Look at the Giants. Always got a fresh man to rotate in. I dont like no DE in the top 10 though..maybe later in the draft. Im seeing Devon Still pop up a lot in Mock Drafts..he might help free of some space but he isn’t much of a rushing DT himself
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"I don't see no ceiling. I don't see no breaking point." - Cam Newton
I'm not enamored with any of the first round DT.
I’d like to see Neblett get more snaps next year though. In mostly a reserve role he got three sacks, three QB hits, and five tackles for loss.
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
im not really excited about a lot of the defensive talent in the top 10. I like Claiborne the most but chances of him being there at 8-9 are slim. We might go WR or OL just off that alone. Unless we trade back and pick up an additional pick possibly to replace our 3rd. Id love another Revis for Beason Kalil trade
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"I don't see no ceiling. I don't see no breaking point." - Cam Newton
Same here
It’s one of the reasons I’m so high on DeCastro. How many players in this year’s draft can you say with an almost certainty is going to be a long-term All-Pro caliber starter? I’d say four: Luck, Kalil, Claiborne, and DeCastro.
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 9:18 AM EST up reply actions
As good as he is i dont know about taking a Guard at 8-9. 15-20 i could see it but not inside the top 10. Id prefer Rieff if he is there. Tackles are a hell of a lot more versatile.
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"I don't see no ceiling. I don't see no breaking point." - Cam Newton
Not to derail this thread
But I’d rather have a near sure bet All-Pro guard in the top-10. There’s a lot to be said for making a safe pick.
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 9:30 AM EST up reply actions
too each their own…He is still a guard and in MY personal opinion….top 8-9 is too high
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"I don't see no ceiling. I don't see no breaking point." - Cam Newton
Id take Jonathan Martin over DeCastro at 8-9. OT are the lines bread and butter. You can always move them inside if need be. Guards are what they are. Limited wiggle room
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"I don't see no ceiling. I don't see no breaking point." - Cam Newton
Then you should
know how limited you are, Unless you can snap lol…
I was thinking about the Guard thing earlier today, and then it dawned on me how good an elite RG could be on our line...
Having that kind of interior line (Wharton – Kalil – Castro) would basically guarantee a clean pocket and would make our running game that much stronger; I still want a DT within the first two rounds, but I think we’ve been looking at this guard situation in the wrong light…..
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
I think so, too.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
I tend to agree, and I think if there is a once in a decade player available where we pick
I think you have to take him. I don’t care that he is a guard. he could be a kicker for all I care. if he were the best kicker to come out of college in decades and had the capability to boot 60 yard field goals with regularity, I’d take him in a heartbeat.
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Ditto
As we saw, those FGs can make or break your season lol; I mean, I get the criticism of certain positions being taken that high (I’m that way about WRs; I just don’t see the point in taking a WR that high unless he looks like Megatron or Fitz), but lineman have such a direct impact on the team’s success, and especially for our offense going forward (which relies HEAVILY on that interior blocking) I’m coming around to the idea of a once in a decade talent at guard wearing our uni
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Hardy WAS the inside help on many 3rd downs.
He moved over to rush from the DT spot, bringing in Keiser and/or Applewhite at DE.
Let’s also count tipped passes that Hardy had, as positive plays, too – just as good as Passes Defended.
Just as good, if not better.
Balls tipped at the LOS have an bad (or good) habit of landing in a LB’s or S’s hands.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
And when that LB is James Anderson…immediately falling to the turf.
Sorry, but the boy couldn’t catch water if he fell off a boat.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
He would probably just bounce right back up into the boat if he fell out.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Then stare at his hands as if there were a hole in them.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
x

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
by BW Smith on Jan 9, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
One of my favorite questions to a call in show
Years ago, when I lived in Atlanta, the Falcons coach at the time was Leamen Bennet and he had a call in question segment on his coach’s show. There was a tight end named Junior Miller out of Nebraska who was going to be the savior of the team, only he kept dropping passes. A caller asked “Does someone feed Junior Miller or does he actually eat with those hands?”
James coaches steered him towards defense early on, no doubt.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
Definitely.
James, what I want you to do is catch this ball.
[ball hits the turf 30 consecutive times]
Ok. James, what I want you to do is tackle the guy when he has the ball.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Yup. We could do a whole series of these...
James Anderson couldn’t catch a cold while locked in a room of 4 year olds.
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JA couldn't catch the clap from this guy(?)

I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
LOL classic Swardson
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
The old way of thinking...
is of course that defense wins Championships. Look no further back than the Giants’ win over the Pats in Superbowl XLII. No one could stop Josh McDaniels’ spread offense attack because Brady got the ball out so quickly and had so many weapons. The Giants knew the only chance they had to win was to disrupt Brady’s rhythm by planting his butt in the turf or at least given him a few bruises. They couldn’t keep up with them with just offense even though they were almost as prolific at scoring.
So to say that balance isn’t the formula, perhaps that’s true today, but in my opinion, if you can’t disrupt Brees, Brady, Rogers, Big Ben, Peyton, Eli, etc, you’re not going to beat them no matter how many points you score. All that said, though, I do like the idea of going WR in the 1st, OT in the 2nd or vice-versa. Our defense has grown over the season and lots of guys have gotten their feet wet. We just need to put together the best, deepest unit we can for next season. Hopefully Brandon Hogan comes to training camp ready to handle the #2 CB position.
Honestly, I hope Hogan isn't our #2 CB next year
It’d mean we’ve found someone better.
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 9:09 AM EST up reply actions
I say we bring in a solid vet #2 option and let them compete it out. Someway somehow we have to have a better option then 5’8 Captain. As long as that side of the field is a miss match teams will continue to avoid Gamble one of our bigger play makers in the secondary
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"I don't see no ceiling. I don't see no breaking point." - Cam Newton
I've actually thought about a fanpost on "Under the Radar" guys.
But I really like Terrell Thomas at CB. He’s coming off a torn ACL, but that may be what drops him into our price range. He’s a big, physical CB with a knack for interceptions. Gotta love that.
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
I was thinking about doing the same thing
Look at all the low-key but solid FA’s this season. I decided not to until we got some more info about our cap space. Otherwise, I may just be setting myself up for a letdown. Would love to read the article if someone else decided to do it though.
"One step at a time"
How bad did Hogan disappoint (or piss off) the coaches
not to get into the Saints game? With the entire defence injured or getting slaughtered, they still wouldn’t play the guy in the last game just to test him out. I was supprised that we didn’t see him to the point that I see him getting cut early next spring if he doesn’t fix whatever he has broke. Do you all think this reflects on how he has practiced so far?
I don't follow.
Hogan did play the last three games. He was behind Butler and Stanford, sure, but I think the idea was to keep him out of a situation where he might have to go full-out—as not to set-back the knee.
I could be misreading the situation, of course.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
He did play in the Saints game
He recorded two tackles.
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 12:29 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Yes, he did spell Stanford a coiuple times
so I don’t mean he wasn’t out there at all, but I didnt see him in more than a couple plays which I considered quite minimum. The only times I saw him prior to the saints game was in VERY prevent defence, not testing any skills at all. Maybe I just missed him. Did he ever defend a pass that anyone say?
Maybe they scouted Hogan pre-draft...
And knew he had game. =) Otherwise, you know that they would have picked at the inexperienced rookie all day long. First time anyone threw at him, he legally shoved the receiver out-of-bounds and made him inelligible.
Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
Otherwise, you know that they would have picked at the inexperienced rookie all day long.
If I’m not mistaken, Hogan played the majority of the Saints game with Captain out and Butler going down early. Knowing the film junkies Brees and Sean Payton are, you’d think they’d exploit the rookie CB with almost no game experience if they could, like you said. But they didn’t. That says something about him in my eyes.
I like Hogan, and I think he's going to be at least a solid starter...
But in regards to the Saints game, they didn’t throw at him only because he wasn’t covering someone that was close to a record.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Very valid point
Also, I think they avoided him because they could just go after Sherrod Martin instead.
Not sure we should read too much into this
Coaches seem to bring new guys along slowly. Lafell has been sat behind Naane for quite some time. It will be very interesting to see what our young CBs do in camp.
Same here. I'm wondering if one our CBs (Butler, perhaps) could transition to FS and replace what's-his-name.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
i think
we need to build our team to be able to stop the saints. if we cant beat the saints in the regular season, its harder to get in the playoffs, or worse if we go into the playoffs and we still cannot keep up. we must either build to slow down brees or build an offense that can score more points.
we build to beat brees
So, we are the NY Jets of the NFC South?
That philosophy worked great against the Patriots…Not!!!
by BSKincaid on Jan 9, 2012 8:08 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
So, we are the NY Jets of the NFC South?
That philosophy worked great against the Patriots…Not!!!
by BSKincaid on Jan 9, 2012 8:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
No, you build to beat the teams in your division, ianc1203 is right.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Let's take the long view
Two years from now Brees won’t be at his peak anymore, and we’ll need to be ready to take over the division. Let’s take the long view and have our own 5-year window of division dominance. If we build to beat Brees, by the time we are ready he won’t be the one we are worried about anymore.
the way brees is playing
he’ll last longer than 2 years for sure. plus i’m not that patient, and more importantly, neither is cam or BAMF
I'm curious to see what the Special Teams rankings of these teams are.
I think you can get away with having one of the three phases being poor, as long as the other two are solid. It would explain why the “high powered offense, weak defense” formula didn’t work for the Panthers, because the ST play was also less than perfect good.
This is true up to a point (I think)
A minimum level of competence is required. You can’t be awful in any phase or else your team will be volitile, and lose close games you should win. This type of inconsistency leads to loses in the playoffs.
What confounds this sea change in axioms is the Falcon offense then getting shut out
by a lagging defense that suddenly looked potent. Julip Jones was supposedly adding the final piece to an offense that already had plenty of weapons. He played well but what happened?
Seemed to me the Falcons o-line when kaput or they were just over-rated
The Giants have come on strong with their D, just like they did the year they won it all.
It’s momentum going into the playoffs, not overall stats for the year, that made the difference.
That, and the fact that the Falcons are chokers in the big games.
Right now, I think the Giants are the most ‘balance’ team remaining. They are the only defense that has a chance of slowing down the juggernauts that are the Packers, Saints, and Pats. If pressure on those QBs is the only way to stop them from putting up 40+, then it’s the Giants’ d-line that can do it. (not sure they WILL, but they CAN)
Let's take another look at the teams you've named.
New England and Green Bay both had “bad” defenses in terms of giving up yards, but they did something else that’s the hallmark of any good defense: they created turnovers. The Packers and the Patriots were 1-2 in the league in interceptions with 31 and 23, respectively. While both teams are league average or worse in forcing fumbles, I think that’s the reason why their defenses are so “bad” yet they’ve continue to win. They’ve built their D to get the ball back to their offense.
When you look at the 49ers they were very good at NOT turning the ball over, leading the league in turnover differential. Also, they were fifth in the league in time of possession. They won games by playing great defense, not turning the ball over, and keeping the other team’s offense off the field.
And then we get to special teams. Football Outsiders has San Francisco ranked 3rd, New England ranked 5th, and Green Bay ranked 8th in special teams.
There’s a little more to it than just making one part of the team as strong as possible. You’ve got to have something special in the other phases, even if they’re considered bad by some traditional measures. If we want to have a great offense and a mediocre defense then we’ll have to vastly improves our special teams unit and add some playmakers on defense or else we still won’t be that good.
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 8:24 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
Was just about to post this, +1
"What up? We're three cool guys looking for other cool guys who wanna hang out in our party mansion. Nothing sexual. Dudes in good shape encouraged. If you're fat, you should be able to find humor in the little things." Again, NOTHING SEXUAL
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
you guys are like a bunch of pirahnas
by chop goes da weazel on Mar 31, 2011 12:32 PM PDT
by MikeTrain on Jan 9, 2012 9:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nice Angle
If we are going to overhaul the Offense and score more I say yes let’s do that. I also would suggest get some help in our GOD awful secondary, only player they played well was Gamble.
It's a very simple game...
Your defense has to allow less scores than your offense makes. Any mix can work, but it seems the extremes work best. That is sort of logical if you take the extremes to the very extreme – if you don’t allow any scores you will always win. If you score a touchdown every time you have the ball, you will always win.
It does give you pause with the Panthers; they are at the point where a few players on offense could push them to the extreme, but going after them would leave the D in rough shape. I don’t think the D is anywhere close enough to being good enough to try to fill the holes and make it elite.
Honestly i don’t think we have a grasp on what this defense is or how good it can be. Losing Beason and Davis (Mostly Beast) really hurt this team. Not to mention the new system and rotating practice guys to special teams and special teams to starting every other week. Full off season and full bill of health and i think we might be surprised at the improvement we see. Ron Rivera is a very very good Defensive head coach. It is his bread and butter. He also loves no name defenses. i got my fingers crossed with a full schedule he can work his magic and him and sean can have our guys ready and better prepared this season for what this scheme is all about. Ground work has been laid. Now time to build.
Not saying adding a piece or two wouldn’t hurt but i think this D will become more then fine with a little time and elbow grease from the coaching staff
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"I don't see no ceiling. I don't see no breaking point." - Cam Newton
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 9, 2012 9:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Remember...
Points are what dictates who has a job when the dust settles. Yards are what we look at, but points are what matters.
To actually address the article, I’ve kind of had this pit in my stomach the last few weeks. My fear is the powers that be will, generally speaking, just kind of glaze over our problems defensively while using the “Beason is coming back” excuse to make our defensive deficiencies (in terms of personnel) sound like less than they are.
While I’d agree that we are a piece or two away from having an offense like GB or NO, Cam is not yet Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers. He is going to need a defense to help him out for a few more seasons as he masters his craft.
Look what an average defense does for Denver and John Fox, who, by the way, is getting zero credit for the job he has done with that team this season.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
+1 on this part...
To actually address the article, I’ve kind of had this pit in my stomach the last few weeks. My fear is the powers that be will, generally speaking, just kind of glaze over our problems defensively while using the "Beason is coming back" excuse to make our defensive deficiencies (in terms of personnel) sound like less than they are.
I’ve had that “pit in my stomach” since training camp. And the glazing over of the problems isn’t limited to the defense. The powers that be seem to be of the mindset that “Our _______ will be fine because we’ll be getting _______ back.” They thought RT would be fine, because of course Otah will magically lose 30-or-so pounds and never have knee/back problems again. They were fine assuming TD’s ACL wouldn’t tear a third time as long as they only guaranteed his contract for one year. I’m afraid they’re going to yet again make those same assumptions, and add even new assumptions. “Ron Edwards, the 30+-yr.-old who tore his tricep on the first day of training camp, will be the answer to all of our DT woes.” “Beason can’t possibly be anything less than 100%.” Etc.
Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
And to go a little deeper...
If I’m Cam I see that as kind of an ‘acceptance of losing.’
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
That's a really good point...
Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
Cam needs help from the D so he doesnt get that feeling of having to carry the team
Once he does that, he tries to do too much, and that is when the wheels fall off the offense.
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No chance.
Rivera is a defensive coach. He will pride himself on his defensive unit.
We will upgrade it in the offseason one way or another.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
If he has it his way, sure.
But in order to do that he will need JR’s blessing to spend in FA.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
It wouldn't even take big money.
Just sign a few solid guys that can competently run the scheme.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
It would take more money than we’ve spent in free agency (not re-signing our own guys) in the last six or seven years. I’m kind of in a ‘show me’ state at this point.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
I really don't think it would take more than a couple mid level guys.
If you think about it like this: We sign Terrell Thomas, Steve Gregory, and get back Beason and Ron Edwards. That’s adding 4 new starters on defense relative to this past year’s squad. And let’s assume for a minute Davis comes back… that’s nearly a 50% change in defense, all upgrades over last year’s squad.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
And that's not a lot of money to spend at all.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
I agree it would only take 4-5 players.
But signing Thomas and Gregory is more than we’ve done in free agency in the last six or seven years.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
I think it's akin to signing Ron Edwards, Jeremy Shockey, Hangartner,
Olindo Mare, and Omar Gaither.
None of those guys were revolutionary, but they’ve all made significant contributions. Well Mare and Gaither aside.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Thomas and Gregory will want a decent cut.
We have not signed young starters in a while. None of the guys mentioned above are young guys who were brought in to start. Thomas will want 5 or 6 million per season and Gregory probably half that.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
I can't imagine Thomas getting that much after a season ending knee injury.
And Ron Edwards, Shockey and Hangartner were all brought in to start, and Shockey and Edwards both got 3 mil a year.
And you won’t get a mid level guy for less that 3 mil anymore.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty sad how the economy has changed over time.
[in my best JR voice]
Hell, back in my day, $3M would buy you a championship winning team. Now, I can’t even buy a bag of crappy players to fill out the training camp roster for $3M.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Hangartner was not brought in until after he was cut.
We picked him up off waivers. And Edwards and Shockey are both 10 year veterans.
This defense needs at least two starters in free agency who are looking for their second pro contract.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Even if we did bring in some mid level placeholders like Edwards and Shockey
It’s going to go a long way in bringing this defense back to average/above average.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it would help us.
I just think we’re in a position to kind of see how bad he (JR) wants it. Cam has already shown some signs that he will not sit idly by and be a ticket booster for JR. He’s going to want to win and win now. Now, I’m not saying that he’s cheap, but its been so long since we’ve brought in a young starting caliber free agent that I’m kind of stuck in: ’I’ll believe it when I see it’ mode.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
But I definitely think bringing in the defensive equivalent of
Naanee, Shockey, Hangartner (even though he was picked up off waivers) will put our defense in a great spot. And honestly, for all intents and purposes I’m viewing guys like Beason and Edwards as additions to our team. It’s been a year since they played, they’ll be like having FA acquisitions.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
No doubt getting those guys back will be great.
I feel like we’re gonna need some defensive playmakers, too though. And we gotta pay a little bit more for those.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
I'd trust Hurney to find the playmakers via the draft
Until then, keep plugging holes.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
I'm of the persuasion that Jon Beason is one of the best 4-3 MLB's in the NFL.
Getting Beason back, not to mention the boatload of other guys we had on IR, and the Defense won’t be any worse for wear. I also think that if you throw in a few mid level defensive FA’s, this defense can be a top 20 defense.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Yes but there will always be injuries and our depth is not on par with top 20 NFL defenses.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Whoa! This is wierd, I was going to make a post pretty much just like this! I was basically thinking that after watching some of these playoff games that maybe a good defense in today’s NFL is overrated Aslong as you have the explosive offense to compensate for it. Maybe we should just stack the deck even more on our offense with more weapons so we can look more like the Pats and Packers and have a unstoppable offense.
My point is, in today’s NFL do you really need a top tier defense? Or can you just get by on a average defense? I mean when you see the Patriots and Packers play, they are constantly passing and scoring at will with multiple weapons.
That’s why, I’m actually more open to us drafting a WR in the 1st round perhaps, adding even more arsenal to our offense to make us unstoppable.
by PantherTrain on Jan 9, 2012 10:13 AM EST via mobile reply actions
LOL
That’s why, I’m actually more open to us drafting a WR in the 1st round perhaps, adding even more arsenal to our offense to make us unstoppable.
Really? I never would have guessed it.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
I'm shocked it took this long for him to want a WR again.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
But, but, you had me convinced on Mercilus.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
The problem PT...is we don't even have an average defense.
Shitty does not equal average…unless you’re playing pee-wee football, where everyone’s a winner.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I don't know, dude.
Its pretty shitty. I mean, with Beason maybe its below average…
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
Yep...
It’s shitty.
Without Beason and Davis, it’s shittier than the stick on a used enema.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
You can dump perfume on a turd… it is still a turd. While the D got slightly better as the season wore on, it still sucked pretty bad.
Proud Member of Cat Scratch Reader and coiner of the (minus Bowers) meme
But at least it’ll smell nice.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
by BW Smith on Jan 9, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
how about we flip the coin
Let’s look at the bronco’s. Their defence has dragged them kicking and screaming into the playoff’s. Never underestimate defence. Personally I’d rather have an awesome defence buts that’s just the way I’m wired. now if you'll excuse me I have to go talk to elway about whether or not tebow's our guy
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Jan 9, 2012 7:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Another reason why I think we load up more on offense is I have a feeling Chudzinski has a lot of power behind the scenes, especially if he stays which is likely, he might be even more demanding that we get more weapons to open up his offense.
Honestly, if our offense can get to the point like Packers, Patriots wtc where we can score at will game in and game out, then I won’t mind us being like that.
by PantherTrain on Jan 9, 2012 10:16 AM EST via mobile reply actions
PT
Its going to be a few years before our offense runs that efficiently.
Look what the Giants and their pass rush did to the Falcons. That’s why you need defense, particularly a pass rush. We don’t. QBs sit there all day and gouge us 20 yards at a time. You can’t win like that. At least not consistently.
But there’s ONE thing that trumps elite QB play. And that is a great pass rush.
Watch the game tonight. Please. That is how football is supposed to be played. When I hear people say that last game was boring I hold my tongue—but they wouldn’t know good football if it hit them in the mouth.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
Anyone who thinks we just need to add a WR...
Needs to re-watch the Lions game. They hung 50 on us and we lost by two touchdowns.
You cannot lose games in the NFL when you score 35+ points. You just can’t do that.
Our offense is good enough that with an average defense…just average, not necessarily good…we’re a 10 win team.
We have to be able to stop the other team from scoring if we want to win games. It’s as simple as that.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
by BW Smith on Jan 9, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Ding ding ding
We’ve got a winner, folks.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 10:49 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
And the last Saints game to an extent...
Cam was under pressure all day. The WRs we did have didn’t have enough time to get open…Steve Smith included. So, even if we do go offense in the first round, I’d say go OL. Drafting a WR is putting the horse before the cart. You need protection first.
But more gaping than that (eww) is our defense, as you said so eloquently.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
Preach it!
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That would be moving up 25 spots, potentially.
I’m not sure we have the ammunition.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Our QB did throw a couple of bad picks in that game IIRC.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
One was negated by the Panthers intercepting the ball back from Stafford.
The others were all red zone INT’s, including the one that ended the game.
If we could have stopped Barry Sanders Kevin Smith from running it down our throats, we would have won.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Or if we had scored more points. I'm just saying, the offense wasn't 100% effective in that game.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
But the problem is we shouldn't have to score 50 points to win a game.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Exactly.
If you crack 30 points… that should be a guaranteed win in the NFL. If it isn’t, you should know immediately where your problem is.
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I wouldn't say 30 should be a guaranteed win
I would say that if you score 4 TDs, you should be winning at least 75% of those games though.
That said, we did win 4 out of the 6 games that we scored 28 or more points.
devil's stupid enter key.
what i meant was devil’s advocate:
We don’t just need a WR, but it remains a position of need. Mostly we need to do what Hurney was talking about last week and keep our strength strong. Upgrading at WR and at OL should definitely be part of our off season strategy. The way this draft appears to be shaping up I would be happy to see us draft offense at one of these two positions in the first round and then move on to DT or DB in the second. While I know we need help in the secondary, after watching the weekend’s playoff games I’m beginning to lean more towards pass rush as being the more important part of a defense.
With DB’s being hamstrung by the latest batch of pass-favoring rules, the only place a defense can still make an impact is at the LoS. We need new DTs and some depth at DE. Big Money and The Kraken are awesome, but they need relief to keep them strong into the 4th quarter. Until we can control the game at the LoS from the defensive side of the ball, quick-release QBs (brees, brady, ryan, etc…) are gonna throw right over us and scrambling QBs, (Freeman, Tebow, Rothlisblahblah) are gonna keep moving the pocket until coverage breaks down.
TLDR: we need to keep building offense and focus on pass rush particularly in the middle.
I am a firm believer in the saying "defense wins championships"
That being said, I expect the Niners to make it a game against the Saints. Now, moving on to Carolina. The offense did everything itcould to stay in each game this year…minus the Tennessee game. Sure, there were mistakes made on both sides of the ball attributing to the ten losses suffered this year but the defense couldn’t do enough to keep the Panthers in the game. Also, let’s not forget the adventure that was special teams this year. Mare was not doing us any favors and Baker seemed to regress a lot this year. The solution is simple. Carolina uses its first two picks to address their biggest needs (IMO CB and OT) then start shoring up the depth chart. The last thing they need is a revolving door of injuries and inadequate backups filling in for key players. I was impressed by the interior defensive line players though. When the rookies went down these guys came out of obscurity and played well enough that I feel they should be competing for a starting spot in training camp.
Integrity first. Service before self. Excellence in all you do. -- USAF Core Values
by Disciple of Carolina on Jan 9, 2012 10:20 AM EST reply actions
This week end will tell us a lot about what wins in the post season.
I am a firm believer in the saying “defense wins championships”
That being said, I expect the Niners to make it a game against the Saints.
That game and also the Giant game. Giants surprised me this weekend with how strong their defense is and their intensity. It will be interesting to see in both these games if a great D can beat great offenses, or if the opposite happens.
I can’t say the same in the AFC though, but if by any chance the Bronco’s win I am not sure if it was because of a great defense or define intervention.
I grew up on Parcell smash mouth, field position football as a young Giant fan, and always believed in Great defense, ball control, and a top ranked special teams for field position, but I feel the winds of change blowing and I have to say I think the offenses will win out.
I like collard greens.
you can never go wrong with OL or DL
by ieatcrayons on Jan 9, 2012 10:23 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
(minus bowers) would disagree with you.
Proud Member of Cat Scratch Reader and coiner of the (minus Bowers) meme
DaQuan Bowers sucks
ACC Championship Member Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.
Clemson 2011 ACC Champions! Look forward to doing it again next year! :D
of course it is if the goal is bringing a championship home
The main issue here is are unbalance is on the wrong side and our turnoverso are on the minus side. Nearly every year the team that wins it has either a good stiffling defense or can force turnovers at the right time. I know that those stats suggest it doesnt matter with those three teams you have listed having had great regular seasons this year but heck the Pats have a great regular season every year but havent won a playoff game in three or so. Every team needs its defense to step up late in the year the colts d did in the playoffs the year they won it the saints d did the year they won it and there defense has been playing great in the second halves of games the last few weeks. Anyone who things we can ever consitently win without improving on to’s and defense is wrong
by allthatremainsstillowns on Jan 9, 2012 10:30 AM EST reply actions
Good Write Up, James
One thing that Hurney said in his interview that really stood out to me. It was about rushing the passer. In todays nfl, with the wide open passing games and the way the rules are being enforced, that is your best hope to slow down these offenses. If you really think about it, you don’t have to have great cb’s to do this. Go back to 2007 super bowl. What won that game for NY. It was putting preesure on brady and getting him out of his comfort zone. When NO played Tenn. and Jack. Brees probably had his worst games all year. And what happened in those games. Both teams got penetration and took brees out of his comfort zone.
I’am starting to rethink my draft strategy after Hurney’s comments. I think they will work on strengthing their front 7. You can probably include all positions on def. lines and olb. We need a very good rotation on def. line to keep guys fresh. I’am thinking they will try to plug some holes through low priced FA’s but we will build this def. through draft. As far as def. backfield, we have 2 good starters we know of. Coaching staff will have decisions to make as to which direction we go. Who knows about Hogan. We didn’t get to see enough of him to know but i bet coaches already know. We’ll see.
One thing I do know. Its going to be a exciting offseason.
by oldpanther on Jan 9, 2012 11:13 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Defense rankings aren't that simple
Yes, you could say Packers had worst defense in yardage allowed but they are right in middle as far as points allowed. Plus they has a +28 turnover differential! 38 takeaways and only 10 times in 16 games did the offense turn the ball over. We are at +1.
So, easy one size fit all defensive ranks aren’t always helpful when speaking of acute team needs, at least not for comparison sake.
I think it is foolish to think our offense is where Packers, Saints, Pats, (Lions, slightly lesser) is at or that we are a similar team at this point in time. Our QB is good but he isn’t there yet. Our offense isn’t there yet. Offense needs some pieces still and defense needs a lot of work. Some of that will come with maturity but we need new players also.
I think CB is just such a high value expensive position to address and fill in free agency that it makes it a exceptional position to fill with new rookie wage scale.
by Relax on Jan 9, 2012 11:40 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
What about Detroit?
I think that’s the team we should be looking at, rather than the Pats.
The lions allowed just 2.7 pts less than us, and we had 8 more turnovers. However, their higher powered passing offense made the difference
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 11:47 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
no
Bree’s absolutely destroyed them…. And the saints running game crushed em some more. Its all well and good having an awesome offence but it aint gonna bring you a championship.
The giants have proved the value of a good defence
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Jan 9, 2012 8:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This
Also, points allowed per game is more valuable than yards allowed anyway. The Saints, for example, are 13th in the league with 21 points allowed compared to 24th in yards allowed. 1st in offense and 13th in Defense is pretty balanced to me..
As you pointed out as well, the packers and pats give up tons of yards, but this is due to having such a lethal offense as well. Teams constantly have to be throwing the ball and getting away from their game plan to keep up and the leads to more opportunities to get interceptions and the Packers and Patriots are 1st and 2nd in the league in that category.
Bottom line, looking at yardage allowed doesn’t provide us with the right information to get a clear picture about how ‘balanced’ the team is. Defense is more about yards, its more about turnovers, sacks, red zone percentage, 3rd down conversion rate, and points allowed being the most important in my opinion.
by Martin LatinFire Gonzalez on Jan 9, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
When you rate def’s in todays nfl, don’t look at yards. Can be deceiving. Look at points, tounovers, and 3rd. down def.
I agree
I just don’t know where to start with Detroit. What Stafford did was very, very impressive. Outside of Calvin Johnson I think they did so much with average offensive weapons and line and a RB group that was just decimated by injuries. All credit goes to Stafford.
i just don’t think this is a model/formula Lions or anyone else wants to follow again for next season. I don’t think Stafford can be expected to repeat this season stat wise and it is expecting your QB to carry your team.
Saints, what they did last week was just scary good on offense.
I just don’t think it would be wise to invest in these teams formulas or think of these teams as blueprints for what we should be. They are a benchmark for offense for sure.
In my opinion, the right pass rush defensive gameplan could and will break the Saints down same way flawless Pats team lost in the Super Bowl to the Giants.
In my opinion, the right pass rush defensive gameplan could and will break the Saints down same way flawless Pats team lost in the Super Bowl to the Giants.
100% agree. I overstand what you are saying.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
And the Giants could very well do that again
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Jan 9, 2012 12:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe
But their still going to have to score to beat GB.
KC didn't.
But that could very well have been an outlier or anomaly.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
The point is to have a great offense, not to neglect balance
NO, NE, SF would all be even better if they had a top 15 defense. I think the idea is to have balance, but make sure you don’t neglect offense while building your defense.
Car has a top 5 offense already. I can’t say improving that a couple spots would make us better than creating a top 15 defense.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Jan 9, 2012 12:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yup
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Jan 9, 2012 1:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Points win games, if we could add more points, we would win more games.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
By "point" I was referring to the premise of this article
Not the point of Football, lol. But since you brought it up… Preventing points does the same thing as scoring them.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
Oh, gotcha. But Losing 7-0 is the same as losing 49-35.
At the end of the day, It doesn’t matter how many points you stop, you still need to put up TD’s.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Not really true
If you allow 0 points, you are guaranteed to have a tie at the worst. If you score 0 points, you are guaranteed a tie at best.
True, but how often do defenses give up 0 points in the modern NFL.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
This past season teams gave up 0 points 5 times as often as teams scored 50+
Which is what we would have needed to beat Detroit.
Now, do I think defense alone wins games? Of course not, but the idea of just ramping up an offense and ignoring defense altogether won’t cut it either.
Fair enough.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
It's basic economic planning.
Wins = new points = Net Profits
Points Scored = Net Revenues
Points Allowed = Net Costs
Net Profits can be increased either by raising Revenues, or lowering costs.
IMO, it’s easier to cut costs, which is allowing fewer points.
by bigdavis on Jan 9, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you have a wealth of International Relations scholarly works backing up your opinion on cutting costs lol
that’s a wreck
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
A penny saved is a penny earned.
Eliminating a score from your opponent is = to scoring one yourself.
Let’s see how that plays out in the Saints/Niners game.
The Niners played their 8 games at home this year, allowing only an average of 11 points to their opponents.
Ah, but who is aware that the Niners SCORED more at home (28 average) than the Saints SCORED (27) in their 8 away games??
Do we 'need defense' or just need the guys back who were on IR?
I think trying to derive any understanding of our defense based on 2011 is near impossible, largely in part because this was the first season we’ve been without Beason.
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 12:21 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Beeson will defininetly help.
But in the end, we’ve got several holes on def. No rotation at de, safety cb. olb.
CB?
We’ve got Gamble, Munnerlyn, Butler, Hogan… and Stanford, right? Isn’t that five CBs? I don’t know that it can be said there’s no rotation there — no true #2 CB, I’d agree with, but five-deep in CB seems to be enough rotation.
But how many are worth a damn.
I’am talking rotation for def. line.
For the front seven, I'll wholeheartedly agree with you.
We do need depth there — needed it for several years now, to be frank, and especially in DT. That’s been ignored for years, up until this draft with McClain and Fua both being taken. But a bit more depth (especially if we can find a DT worth a damn that’s reliable and has a running motor 24/7) would be wonderful.
I think that question has been answered about 16 times over the course of the last 4 months.
No, we shouldn’t.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
Right now? No.
I can honestly say that much — Munnerlyn was serviceable enough given what depth we had, but this season he was getting caught out of position more. The answer, in the end, is dependent on how Butler and Hogan both mature in the off-season and how they’ll do when they come back for training camp next summer — and if we could find a reliable CB in FA that could come in and compete for the #2 spot — not some big-name/big-money flash in the pan, but someone… like Gamble, quite frankly, who can be quiet and yet as stalwart and reliable as they come.
I think a lot depends on defensive scheme. How many LBs are on IR (I lost count)? The heart of a Rivera/McDermott
lineup is fast and hungry LBs. They bring the pressure, they stop the run. Injuries made it impossible to execute the defensive scheme this year, and we all saw the results. I could only name one or two defensive starters (and I don’t count rooks) that really screwed the pooch this year. Give me back our LBs, and if TD can’t make it, find the one that can. Pressure will fix our D. Added protection will give double-bonus points to the O. Rant over.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
James, this is one time I don't agree.
Beason will help. But if we don’t improve our pass rush we aren’t going anywhere.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
Def.
I think next year you will see 3 or4 new starters on def.
No doubt the pass rush needs to be improved
But thinking that can happen in one draft is a fools pursuit. Especially in a class so devoid of decent DL players.
This year we’ll need to take what the draft is giving, and improving the pass rush isn’t likely on the cards, like it or not.
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 12:31 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I'm not looking for it to happen overnight.
If we are talking draft only, then sure, maybe the BPA is an offensive guy. But I would hope they address defense holes in free agency instead of sticking their head in the sand in the name of Beason returning.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
James
Did you see where G. williams will probably go to STL. with Fisher. It was reported yesterday by CBS on pregame show. He’s in last year of contract and he’s very close to Fisher.
No, it won't happen overnight.
But looking to fill at least some holes on defense and special teams can give us some depth — something we dreadfully need. Our lack of depth on those two phases of the game killed us this season, and not even going from worst to 5th in the NFL on offense could overcome that. Yes, Beason and Davis going out at the start of the season sucked, but like ERL said, we can’t just duck our heads in the sand and think Beason will cure all our defensive woes, particularly when those woes are based on our lack of depth (let alone lack of quality depth).
If we want immediate impact on pass rushing (or anywhere else, for that matter), we need to look at FA. If we want to continue this youth movement to its logical conclusion and look towards the future, then we have to build through the draft. Of course, then begs the question of just how much we can look to FA to find that starting-potential, while also building depth where we can.
And yet... it seemingly happened overnight with Houston. Even with Mario going down.
J.J. Watts = 2nd best pick in the draft, after Cam
We went from worst to (almost first) on offense this year, and Houston proved it’s not impossible to turn the D around. J.J. Watts: Is there somebody like him in the draft (minus Coples)
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
This is why PTs support of Mercilus actually holds water. I look at the Giants D and think...
“Why can’t we do that.” Move Hardy to DT, add Merciless, and let these quicker/faster linemen do their thing. And yes, I agree, Beason makes at least a 3 point difference per game.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Smart... but you knew that already ;-)
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
We need defense.
There’s a lack of playmakers on that side of the ball. When only five players are guaranteed a starting job next year, you’ve got a problem.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 12:25 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
That your defense sucks AND you have a inexperienced QB
Tebow aside… It’s usually vet QB’s who score in crunch time. Cam figuring this league out is still a missing piece to our offense.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Jan 9, 2012 12:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Comes with experience.
With a full offseason, he’ll be much better next year.
Also defense was a big part of NO and GB's recent SuperBowl seasons
We’ll see how this year turns out… But it could very well be an anamoly.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Jan 9, 2012 12:04 PM EST via mobile reply actions
It's only one game, but NYG beat ATL by being VERY balanced
Sometimes it’s not the regular season rakings, but how you play gOing into and during the playoffs.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Jan 9, 2012 12:13 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The lions d has at least one solid area
I dont think we go by the lions d it has a great d line just nothing really behind it save one good safety
by allthatremainsstillowns on Jan 9, 2012 12:13 PM EST reply actions
Lions
If they hang onto some of those int. could have been a different game, also bad call on officiating on early whistle on fumble.
Did they even have a single holding call against their O-line?
I don’t remember one in our Week 17 game, and I don’t recall one in the Detroit game. I defintely saw some remarkable non-call for holding. NO’s O-line can mug on and chokehold any defensive player they want.
Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
Atl.
They have the most vanilla off. in league.
It doesn't have to be complex if you have good players.
The Falcons have a lot of serious weapons. They simply need to fix their O-line again.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I feel like I have to play devil's advocate here for a moment.
I daresay that balance is all it’s cracked up to be. The current trend towards mighty offense to overcome crappy defense isn’t exactly a workable solution, because then the entire team is made vulnerable when the offense is suddenly hamstrung by injury to one or two key players. Ask the Polians how well that strategy worked for them — they built around Peyton Manning, and the moment Manning is injured, everything flies out the window and the Colts are staring at a 2-14 season… and the Polians are now out of a job as a result.
Having a blazing offense is nice, but you have to be able to balance it out with defense (and special teams, I daresay). That’s why I’ve wound up reconsidering to the point where I think our draft should look more at the LB corps, safety and at least one offensive tackle/guard to add depth (because Otah’s injury history alone is enough to concern me that even with all the additional time recovering on IR isn’t going to help — after all, didn’t we do that last year?) — and more to the point, that we need to look at versatile defense that can play special teams. Cutting some of our ST squad in preseason to focus on offense is, I believe, one of the reasons we were so mediocre on both defense and special teams (defense might not have been so bad if Beason and Davis weren’t both lost to injury at the start of the season, but the way injury has struck the team in recent years, I don’t feel like we can afford to make that mistake all over again).
Going back to the Polians — the only reason they lasted so long before finally being fired was because of Manning’s skill as a QB overshadowing virtually every deficiency on the team — and the fact that he was an iron man in the making up until his neck injury. When Manning was lost, the Colts were lost because suddenly every glaring weakness in the Polians’ draft strategy over the last decade came into crystal-clear focus. I don’t think we can do that with Cam — yes, he’s exhilarating to watch, but you can’t center the entire team around him and hope that he can do what Manning did for so long with Indianapolis. We have to shore up the defense and special teams — and give the offense (notably the WR corps) the time to develop and mature further.
by NX75649 on Jan 9, 2012 12:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
+1
Well put.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 12:27 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
That definitely hasn't helped the Colts, no.
But, just like how Manning overshadowed the Colts’ deficiencies with his play, Polian’s drafts were overshadowed by Manning being his signature draft pick.
And therein lies the danger of thinking more offense in the draft, IMO.
Aside from having an offensive guard/tackle to be prepared in case Otah can’t make it through another season, I think it’s too dangerous to focus on more offense, especially when so much of the offense (mostly our WR corps) are still relatively unproven — which is why I boggle when people say “we obviously need to go WR in the first round”. No, we don’t — especially with the growing trend of first-round WR busts in recent years (and no, this isn’t a slight on AJ Green or Julio Jones).
Don’t get me wrong, I understand that Cam needs as many weapons as we can give him to make him the most versatile QB we can make him. But as lacking in depth as we are on defense and special teams (especially with DT and LB), it behooves us to not at least try and get some depth there and start towards rebuilding or retooling the defense and special teams. We may have to take what the draft gives us in that regard, but I think it’s nothing short of irresponsible to think that we should not bother with defense just because it’s a weak class and focus instead on offense. That way lies madness… and a pink slip for Polian. I hope Hurney is smart enough to avoid that pitfall and add some depth to defense and special teams both.
Which is why...
I would love for Carolina to somehow be able to ship off Clausen and find a backup QB with a skillset at least mildly comparable to Cam’s. Yes, DA knows the offense, but if he has to come in, you have to drastically change your playcalling. He simply can’t do half of what Cam’s able to do. Now, where you find a backup QB who is capable of doing enough of what Cam can do so that you wouldn’t have to throw 90% of your playbook out the door is beyond me.
Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
DA can do some of the same things with his arm. But I know what you mean.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Some might say we technically already have that person on the roster.
Granted, his lack of ideal height and weight becomes a concern, but the closest we have on the roster right now is likely Armanti Edwards. It would mean quite possibly scrapping the QB-to-WR conversion on him, though. Otherwise… we might be looking for a while for that sort of backup QB with such a skillset.
Be prepared...
For about 90% of the CSR readers to lambast you (at least mentally, if not in type) for such a suggestion. LOL. I, however, can sort of see that. =) And I’m sure Tater will wholeheartedly agree.
I don’t remember where I read it, but I do remember something about even if the shit hit the fan and something happened to Cam and DA, they still had two guys on the active roster who could play QB – AE and Naanee.
Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
It actually does makes sense for AE to be the 3rd QB at the least...
He’s a WR, so it saves a roster spot to not have to have a designated 3rd QB.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
That would have been a great solution to keeping Kasay this year too.
Rivera said he wants players for multiple positions and it doesn’t appear he is even considering Armanti for that purpose.
STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!
Oh, I could care less about being lambasted.
But that’s where we stand right now, when all’s said and done. Aside from the height and weight, AE is the closest we have to a potential backup QB with a skillset that could compare to Cam — and like BW says below, it makes sense for him to be the #3, so as to save the roster spot if nothing else. If we close off that avenue completely, then I suspect we’ll be looking for a while to find a QB that would come close to matching that.
LOL...
Complete fail. ;)
No, I understand the idea about saving a spot on the active roster. I just meant that about 90% of CSR readers think that AE should be cut immediately – no ifs, ands, or buts, that he’s a complete waste of a player, etc. But I think you have a good point about him legitimately having a similar QB skillset, even if he has a much smaller frame.
Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
Thank God! Another person who has opened their eyes and arms!
Armanti, while not possessing the ideal stature, is the PERFECT match for Cam’s skillset. He could come in, and we do not have to change the offense at all. Maybe we don’t call quite as many designed QB runs in the red zone (tacklers don’t bounce off AE the way they do with Cam), but we still have the full playbook open.
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His stature, really, is his only drawback.
And let’s face it — the prospect of turning around that “OMG, the AE pick sux because it was #33 in this past draft” and shutting it up would be rather nice. I always felt AE was getting shafted by that, especially since no one foresaw the 2010 Panthers going 2-14 and having the #1 pick in the draft. People may not like it because they’re bound and determined to hate him and hate the pick, but it just makes too much sense to at least not consider the possibility.
This is probably where JPK’s unconventional thinking for his draft selections have rubbed off on me. ;)
Several - negated by penalties. He doesn't play STs by himself.
And in the first match against the Saints, he had the longest punt return their coverage team had allowed at that point (10 yards, but still…)
Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
I can only imagine...
What would AE’s punt returns have been like, had we not cut our ST depth and experience (or at least pulled some in to replace what we’d lost)? I daresay, likely better than what we did see. Our ST play was atrocious. But it says something that Rivera came out and said point-blank that it isn’t because of AE. It’s the coverage, the lack of depth and the lack of experience that killed us on special teams and held AE back.
But, again, no one wants to hear that.
It’s funny, the defense will get better when the starters are back from injury…
… yet no one wants to talk about special teams getting better. It’s all AEs fault. Not the fact that all the guys who should be playing special teams ended up having to be starters instead.
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Well, if AE went to a real D-1 School instead of that D-2 “school” up in them mountains of Norkerlina, perhaps more people would be willing to give him a chance? ;-)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Hey, hey, hey.
We prefer: Nerf Curolina
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
My apologies...
I didn’t think you guys knew it was two words. ;-)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Too shay. ;-)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
by BW Smith on Jan 9, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yea, a chance
Like Troy Smith got a chance. Like Pat White got a chance.
Armanti Edwards isn’t a NFL QB. Not A NFL backups back up. Not even a NFL roster spot worthy athlete at this point. He can hardly catch a ball and run with it.
IIRC
He didn’t muff a single punt this season.
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I would not go that far.
He was the team’s leading receiver in the preseason. He was making progress in camp. He just wasn’t ready to be one of our top 3 receivers this past season.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah. It's a shame.
According to Oldy, my college degree is actually a high school diploma, since he only played high school football up there.
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Ask and ye shall receive
It took a very specific search phrase, but I found it.
Comments, probably about 1/3 of the way down, me and you were having a pretty long exchange of replies.
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If you click on the time stamp of the comment to use as your link it takes you right to it tater...
Just for future reference.
You can find the start of the sub-thread here.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Ah, good to know, and thanks for the tip.
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No problem...took me forever to learn that one.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I've asked, but I've yet to receive.
Could you point out where I said your degree was a high school diploma? Ta very much.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Saying that Armanti played high school football at App is akin to calling App a high school is it not?
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No, it's not
A football program and the University as a whole are totally different things.
There are certainly some high school teams that could beat my schools college football team, but that has nothing to do with the diploma.
I don't think so.
For one… it is fundamentally wrong.
Armanti played COLLEGE football, and at the 2nd highest level of college football, btw.
Don’t make excuses for his blatant insult.
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It's a hyperbolic statement
Much like someone saying that Anderson can’t catch water falling out of a boat.
Do you really think that Armanti would have done the same things that he did if he were playing against ranked teams?
Hey now...I wasn't using hyperbole. :-)
I really think he couldn’t catch water if he fell out of a boat.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Yes actually, I do.

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I knew you were going there. :-)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Fact is, it is wrong.
Or just really poor hyperbole.
To say that Appalachian State is a glorified HS football team is terribly wrong. I would wager that App during the Armanti years could regularly win games against at least half of the 1-A football programs.
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You can have that opinion
Obviously, Oldie thinks that due to the fact that he did not play against as tough of opposition, that he’s not convinced that his achievements mean as much.
I still don’t see how that’s an insult to you or insinuates that you received a high school diploma from that University.
Where you played doesn't mean SQUAT.
And neither does how high you were drafted.
Rather, as Peter King points out in his column today, it’s how you produce:
Stat of the Week
Attention, all personnel men in love with Alabama running back Trent Richardson high in the first round: Following a regular season in which none of the six leading rushers in football were drafted in the first round, here were the five leading rushers over the weekend:
Player, Team Rushes Yards Rookie year, draft status College
Arian Foster, Texans 24 153 2009, undrafted Tennessee
Isaac Redman, Steelers 17 121 2009, undrafted Bowie (Md.) State
Brandon Jacobs, Giants 14 92 2005, round 4 (110) Southern Illinois
Pierre Thomas, Saints 8 66 2007, undrafted Illinois
Ahmad Bradshaw, Giants 14 63 2007, round 7 (250) Marshall
As we look ahead to the divisional round, here’s an interesting note about the final eight teams left in the Super Bowl derby: Only one, Denver, starts a first-round running back … and Willis McGahee’s on his third team, in the twilight.
It's an insult to me because it belittles all the great football I watched
And there is absolutely NO evidence to support that claim.
Saying what he said takes a shit on every great NFL player that ever came out of a “lesser” division. It also takes a shit on their fans who are passionate about watching excellent football.
I can say with a great deal of confidence that App can currently beat probably a third or more of the 1A programs repeatedly, and have moderate success against at least half. During Armanti’s tenure, not only did they beat one of the most storied programs in college football history in their own house, the won 2 of their 3 national championships, and he won the Walter Payton award twice.
If App is a high school program, I would LOVE to know what you consider the following “prestigous 1A programs” to be:
Utah State, Idaho, UTEP, UAB, Wyoming, Colorado St., MTSU, North Texas, et al.
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Poor MTSU...
I went to Middle Tennessee State for two years, from 1996-1998 — the Blue Raiders did leave a bit to be desired. I gotta admit, though, the first time I got NCAA Football 2004, I went with them and made a QB and a hybrid RB/CB — wound up in the national championship and won it in three seasons, and switched out of their division to one of the 1A divisions the following year.
…..and yeah, I was playing on the Rookie setting. I admit it.
Still, though, I have some fond memories of MTSU and the campus… let alone the general area. Being within close range of Nashville from Murfreesboro was so nice.
If the STR coach can teach his men to avoid Holding and Blocking in the Back calls, AE would look a lot better.
And that goes for Pilares on KR, too.
How many decent returns were erased, and turned into “1/2 the distance to the goal” calls? I lost count.
1-2 per game it seemed like.
Although it gradually improved.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly, and attempting an objective look, I only counted 2 or 3 returns where AE could have busted one open and did not
The rest? He was mobbed immediately after completing the catch.
That, combined with the fact AE stared at a lot of high hangers (since we rarely gave opposing punters a long field), should tell people we have a ways to go on ST, and it is not the fault of the return men.
I also don’t think people realize how much harder it is to return a punt for a touchdown versus a kickoff.
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True.
But that goes back to the unrelenting hate for the pick because of what it ultimately turned out to be. AE has been screwed over by a lot of the fanbase because of that. If Hurney had the foresight to see what trading the pick to get AE would have cost us, I’m sure he would have never made the deal… and quite possibly we still could have nabbed AE with the pick we had at the time in the 2010 draft. But the past is the past, what’s done is done. Just a shame people won’t let it go.
Counterpoint: What has he been given a chance to contribute in?
Aside from punt returns, pretty much nothing. Fox sure never gave him a chance, that’s for certain. And what with the WR situation this season, AE didn’t have much of a chance to contribute there, either — just too much talent ahead of him in Smitty/Naanee/LaFell. Let alone Gettis returning next season, or where Pilares fits in.
This way, it still gives him a chance to contribute somewhere and provide some worth to the pick, and gives us an extra-versatile weapon. He could play WR if needed, and also be ready to play QB if needed. I don’t see a problem with giving him that chance.
This is exactly the thinking NX was talking about above.
Close minded, not even considering alternatives, just ready to boot him out the door and get NOTHING for the picks invested in getting him.
As soon as people figure out that we cannot do anything that will give us that pick back, and resign themselves to the fact that he is better off having SOME use to us than just being cut, then maybe they’ll realize that AE is useful in a lot of ways that are just currently being scratched.
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Edwards
will get another shot in training camp to prove himself. I would get an undrafted punt returner with some speed (just in case).
Yeah, I don't get it
I get that everybody is disappointed that we gave up what turned out to be the #33 pick, but Hurney didn’t know that at the time. I think it’s ridiculous that every time AE is mentioned, there’s an immediate reaction of “he haz to be cut” by a large portion of the members here, as if cutting him gives us a do-over. There are so many players on the roster that should go before him that don’t contribute anything, but people don’t even know they exist because they don’t have the stigma attached to them that Edwards does.
by JDeLong42 on Jan 9, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I think it has less to do with what it ended up being than the idea behind the trade...
regardless of what that 2nd rounder ended up being, we traded away a valuable pick for the epitome of a project pick, who probably would’ve still been on the board if we had stayed put anyways. That’s what rankles us as a whole about the whole situation…
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Exactly, it's the situation
So why does Armanti receive all the ill will for it? He’s changing positions and doing everything he can to improve. Give the guy some time. This year was essentially his rookie year because you know Fox wasn’t going to invest any effort into a project when he knew he’d be gone by the time that project was ready.
Ehhh...I think there's more to it than just that though
because we’ve seen projects similar to Armanti (not exactly, but similar) who have made a better transition than he has; I’m rooting for the guy (if not quite a bit skeptical at this point unfortunately), but when we’re getting told that he’s lighting it up in offseason camps and then he’s not able to earn any significant playing time until the last week of the season (outside of punt returns), it becomes easier to see where the frustration comes from. But yea, he receives additional crap spillover from our anger at Hurney about the trade in the first place (I hold Hurney in high regard, but that trade was abysmal lol)
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
I really think the limited WR use was partly for Cam
Makes his transition easier when he only has to be on the same page as three WRs on gameday as opposed to 6.
And like I said, Fox wasn’t going to work on a project he wouldn’t be around to see the end of. So we need to give AE an extra year.
Haha well he'll get extra year cause it's not like he's costing us much financially at the moment :p
I’m just not sure how he’s going to stack up against the other WRs since we’ve got Smitty, Lafell, Gettis (in theory) at the top 3, with AE competing with Nana and Pilares for #4 after that. Ahhh vell, I guess we’ll see come August!
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
I'm with you.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
coughcoughArmantiEdwardscough
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At this point Clausen would be worth a conditional 7th at best.
I think the best we could get for Goodson is a 4th
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 1:30 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I'd take it in a heartbeat
"What do want to say to those critics now?"
"Just sit back and watch the show." -Cam Newton
Goodson has value.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
He was in the doghouse.
He has value based on upside alone.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed. People act like 2010 never happened
When he was asked to carry the load at the end of the season, he played very well. He also did pretty well in KR duty.
Fumblitis is an issue, but some coach somewhere will think they can fix that in the name of getting an above average talent.
Eagles might really consider him, seems like a pretty similar backup to LeSean McCoy.
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...
Fumblitis is an issue
I think DeAngelo Williams should hold antifumble clinics. It’s ridiculous that the man has only fumbled 6 times in his career. Goodson could learn some lessons from D-Will in that regard.
Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
only 6 in his career
I knew he was like a vault when it came to ball security, but that’s ridonkulous. Has anyone who said he wasn’t worth the $$ considered that?
We can't trade him...he's the best KR we have.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
So...um, how 'bout those Hackensack Bulls?
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Any pick is better than no pick.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
You realise Newton is unique, right?
To find a backup that can do what he can is pretty much impossible.
Anderson is a fine backup because he can get the passing game going. We’d simply have to ditch the option plays. This offence works with a pocket passer, the extra wrinkle that Newton’s mobility provides just makes it more difficult to stop.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
by OldhamA on Jan 9, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, I'm well aware that Newton is unique.
Now, where you find a backup QB who is capable of doing enough of what Cam can do so that you wouldn’t have to throw 90% of your playbook out the door is beyond me.
Isn’t that pretty much saying that he’s unique?
Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
Take away Steve Smith, and our WR corps is probably the worst in the NFL.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Well if you add Gettis back in we would at least have a chance of not being the worst.
Chicago’s WRs are pretty awful.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
As are Jacksonville's.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Fair enough, but we would be in the bottom 4th of the League.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
We're in the botton 4th in the league in most defensive categories too, so at least there's consistency there. :-)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Lol, it's all about symmetry and balance.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
That's a very flawed argument
If you take away Wes Welker, NE has probably the worst WR corps in the NFL. Take away Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona has the worst WR corps in the NFL. The same could be said for a large majority of teams in the NFL.
Except for Green Bay and that obnoxious NFC South team...
Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
I would be very curious to see what they'd look like without Breesus...
We know GB can still put up approximately 500 yards with a backup QB.
Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
Now, now, Jamie...
Tampa Bay couldn't help but take a chance on Haynesworth.
LOL.
Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
In a nut shell
I think we need to wait until combine and see how a lot of players grade out. Picking where we do, #1 i guess can be best player available. Late picks need to benefit the defense and they need to be hits. I think we need a free agent that is the equivalent of Shockey on defense. Modest defensive gains will go a long way.
I think balance is what every team aspires for in the off season. It isn’t the reality and you can do well without it but it is what you want.
Offense doesn’t have to regress for defense to improve.
by Relax on Jan 9, 2012 12:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Coaches
Does anybody think we need to get rid of any coaches on panthers.
Can't think of any.
But the guys at Bolts from the Blue seem to think their DB and DL coaches want to come here.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 1:02 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
No
Any new coaching staff should get three years to install their system and draft their players.
But that’s just my opinion
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 1:03 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Maybe HC and cord.
But not position coaches.
Well, I don't think anyone is tickled pink with the defensive results.
But they’ll get another year to prove that it was the injuries and lack of personnel.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
If we're talking position coaches then it's impossible to tell
Nobody outside the organization have any clue what the coaches have been asked to do with their players, or what to prepare them for.
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 1:08 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
If injuries plague us again next season...
…then we need to look at our strength/conditioning personnel.
We also need to look into where our facilities are built
Make sure they aren’t built on some ancient burial ground that has cursed our team
Meeks did little, IMO, to coach up our secondary guys.
He’s seen Martin for 2 years now, and should have helped him improve his angles and tackling.
Also Brian Murphy, the ST coordinator, is on a short leash, to me.
What's easier for us to do?
Make out offense significantly better? Or make our defense significantly better?
The latter is obtainable in a number of ways, I’m not sure the first is. Does adding Blackmon make us that much better next year? This is why we should focus on defense. We can make big strides there.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Jan 9, 2012 1:05 PM EST via mobile reply actions
How?
What can be done in one draft to significantly overhaul the defense?
I’ve looked at it from every angle and I can’t find any rookies who would immediately turn this defense around.
That’s why I think it’s more attainable and realistic to plug one hole than 10.
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 1:10 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
Haave a damn good draft
And i’am not talking about 1st and 2nd. rounders.
That should tell you just how bad the defense is…
If we don’t even know where to begin.
Look what getting back Dumerville and drafting Miller did for Denver’s D. They were (or nearly were) the worst unit in the league the last couple of years.
One or two guys—the right one or two guys, can make an enormous difference.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
That has to be the foundation of every good 4-3 defense.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Well clearly you have to address it in FA too.
Who said draft was our only option? My point is there’s not much we can do in FA or the draft to make our offense significantly better. But there’s a lot we can do to make our defense better.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
How about trading our #2 pick for a player instead of trading it to a position to draft?
I don’t know who or what team would trade I am just asking.
STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!
I think Blackmon would make this offense
Much better than it already is. But drafting any type of defensive player will make an even bigger impact.
"What do want to say to those critics now?"
"Just sit back and watch the show." -Cam Newton
Agree. But Blackmon alone is not going to make us better than teams like NO or GB.
I think offensively that’s only something that can come from Cam improving.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Jan 9, 2012 4:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Yup.
I said somewhere above that he is not going to be on Rodgers’ level or Brady’s level or Brees’ level for another 3 or 4 years. In the meantime he’ll need some help. Like a defense that can hold opponents under 4 TDs a game, for starters.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
We're on a level ERL
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Jan 9, 2012 4:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I completely agree.
"What do want to say to those critics now?"
"Just sit back and watch the show." -Cam Newton
Does adding Devon Still or Dre Kirkpatrick make us that much better? Not that much.
In fact, I think that Blackmon or Jeffery would bring more of an immediate impact, than Kirkpatrick or Still.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Hard to say, really.
Maybe. I think either of those defensive guys would easily start for us.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Blackmon makes us that much better next year
Even if he goes to the ProBowl, it’ll mean he was taking catches from other guys. There’s not but so many snaps to go around and we already have a lot of playmakers.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Jan 9, 2012 4:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Won't be "taking catches" if he does more with them than the guy you believe they should've went to.
Hmm, didn’t we see this pan out this season? Yep. Legedu was essentially “taking catches away” from Lafell. And what happened whenever Lafell got the ball? Lots of huge YAC and big plays. Legedu often got the exact same throws and either dropped the pass or caught it and got pretty much no YAC. The coaching staff finally realized this and switched the two on the depth chart and our offense clicked better. Now I’m not sitting here saying that that one change is what lead us to more wins or anything, just saying that it’s plain and obvious to see how one person who is a more skilled WR can affect the game when he gets the ball in his hands.
Kirkpatrick? Probably not, given that with our current pass rush it wouldn't matter too much...
but if we drafted Still (or someone similarly talented) and they performed up to expectations on the line? That makes a HUGE impact on our defense; if we had any semblance of interior pressure this year, CJ would’ve easily had 13-15 sacks, and Hardy could’ve easily doubled his total at the least! Having interior pressure on defense is what used to make our defenses feared in the NFC, but unfortunately we have forgotten how awesome it is to have that kind of talent inside ever since Jenkins left (Maake was good, but he was nowhere near the impact player Jenkins was)…
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
First, I think the value pick at 8/9 is o-line (pending further review)
Second, we should look at LBs and DEs that have produced in big games, most especially in pressuring the QB. Fix the front, and the back will follow.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
I wouldn't mind it at all if we went offense early in the draft
Look at Rivera’s track record in San Diego. They had the number one defense last year and the only three people I can name off the top of my head from that defense are Weddle, Jammer, and Garay. I think BAMF can make us respectable with what we have, even if we don’t pick up any huge game-changing pieces. Last year San Diego had the #1 defense (#1 against the pass, #4 against the run). This year they are 16th on defense (13th against the pass, 20th against the run) and they just fired Rivera’s replacement at Defensive Coordinator. We should have faith in Rivera to fix this defense, even if we don’t add upgrades at every position.
That’s why getting another stud to develop with or protect Cam is not a bad idea. We just need to go BPA.
My dream draft
Is to trade back to mid-round(15-20) and get DeCastro in the first, and then Gilmore and Poe in the second.
If Kirpatrick runs good at combine, I hope hes there when we pick.
by oldpanther on Jan 9, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Swap Gilmore and Poe for Hosley and Thompson and I’m right there with you.
The most important thing for the Panthers to do in the next 5 years is ensure that no matter what Cam is protected.
I don’t care if that means going OL in the first round for the next three seasons if it keeps him upright and protected
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 1:24 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
Jerel Worthy
I like him, but think he’s really similar to McClain. I think we need a run stopped primarily, which is why I like Brandon Thompson alot
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 1:29 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Nah
I don’t believe any of the 4-3 DT’s have a Top 10 grade…we would be reaching. Huge mistake.
I think he meant Fletcher Cox? Big DT from Mississippi St. Jerel Worthy is Mich St. Not sure who he meant
by JStewart28 on Jan 9, 2012 2:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I would rather see if Ta'amu or Poe fall into the second round.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Can't create a story from my phone...
But the Jags just invited Chud back for a second I interview.
I have a feeling they’ll offer him the job. We’ll see if he bites.
My nightmare scenario: Chud leaves for Jax and takes Shula as his OC
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 1:26 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
Someone tell them to hire their own f@cking coaches.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh...no!
Might be time to be a little scared…

Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
by jamiedk on Jan 9, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's not a dog, but I submit this as an entry in the Do Not Want contest.
Unless this is an actual picture of Jamie when she was a baby. If so, I rescind my request and beg for mercy.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
LOL...
It’s not me…so go for it. =)
Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
We could bring in Weinke (the QB, not the dog) as the QB Coach...
As for OC…I don’t know who we could hire with Shula gone too.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
There's some Coryell disciples out there.
But I think we lost our contingency plan when Norv didn’t get canned.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 1:59 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Apparently the QB coach in SD is someone they're watching.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Was he not considered for OC last year as well?
by jojoisthemann on Jan 9, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
Yes. Apparently they did not want to let him go.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
This
I think if Chud leaves the offense stays in place, Shula becomes OC and Weinke gets offered QB coach role. Hope Chud stays, but if not, we’ll be good.
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
Poaching assholes…
Proud Member of Cat Scratch Reader and coiner of the (minus Bowers) meme
by Ivan459 on Jan 9, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is funny no matter which way you read it.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
by BW Smith on Jan 9, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I believe I have a new insult. Switch the words and use an ‘er’ on the end of ‘poach’ and it has a better ring to it, though.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
We haven't taken a coordinator from the same team the last two times we've hired a HC.
You forget about Del Rio?
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
I hope he says no...
Jacksonville: We can give you the opportunity to work with Blaine Gabbert.
Chud: Umm…thanks, but no thanks. I have Cam to work with. If I wanted to work with Gabbert, I would have told Rivera and Hurney to draft him last year.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
by BW Smith on Jan 9, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Honestly, if he has his head on straight he would realize he has a good thing going here.
Taking the Jaguars job honestly is beneath him. Two more years of having a top 5 offense with Cam and company will make him a leading candidate for jobs at teams in a much better situation.
If he is smart, he waits, he wins a ring or two here, then he goes somewhere decent.
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by Tater596 on Jan 9, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it's easy for us as fans to say he has a good thing to work with here...
but if he wants to be a HC, he’d have to feel like the situation down in Jax is truly awful to turn it down.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
I think if you looked in the dictionary beside awful situation, you’d see Jacksonville Jaguars.
I mean…ESPN can’t even tell the difference between Jacksonville and Charlotte. :-)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
by BW Smith on Jan 9, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Has Mularkey officially said no to Jax? Might he also be up for a 2nd interview? IDK... anybody know?
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Something tells me Rivera would take a long look at Shula as the OC replacement if Chudz leaves...
just my gut feeling on the matter though :p
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Alabama, without a doubt.
no need to look at the timestamp; move along folks
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Trading into the first. Thought?
First post. Long time reader.
It seems to me that there are several positions of need to the Panthers that have depth at the position in the upcoming draft. Yes one can argue that pared with the return of several key starters, we should do what we can to continue to strengthen our already potentialy lethal offense.
But one can also argue that with out a defense that can’t stop opposing offenses from scoring at will, including the Aints and the Falcants two times a year, the we must strengethen our defense. Again, we will get important starters back on D, but there were holes there before those paleyers were lost.
I propose a strategy that we have used in the the past several draft. Some one say that it has panned out, others not so much.
We can all agree that CB, DT, OLB, OL, and WR are positions of immediate attention. Place them in whatever order you want. I say that we trade into the middle of the first round by offering a package including next years first round pick. With two picks in the top 8-18 picks, we have, if used properly, the opportunity to grab two immediate, 5 year plus, starting game changers for us. The key here is simple, I believe because we will be better next year, we can get a better value now to draft an additional impact player this year than perhaps a BPA or hole filler next year.
I believe either Alshon Jefferies, Reiff, or Dre Kirkpactrick wil fall several to many picks past our 8-9 pick. After the combine we will know which one we want to take first. Then we trade up to get the one that is attainable at the right time and price. We all know that each one of these player would be an instant starter and or at least an upgrade at those positions.
In closing, trading to get an additional immediated impact player in the firsy, and who know what happens with the rest of the draft and the return of key players from injury, will give us what we all know and are excited about, and that more weapons for Cam/Chud, as well as a better defense for BAMF. GO PANTHER!!!!!!
Hell no.
The only way we should get multiple first round picks this year is if the Bengals decide that they need Trent Richardson.
We need to quit mortgaging the future for the present.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 1:34 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
...
We need to quit mortgaging the future for the present.
coughAtlantaFalconscough
Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
Heh
Paid off well for them, that Julio Jones trade, didn’t it? Still went nowhere in the playoffs, and this time with more holes in their game to exploit.
I was even a huge fan of Julio Jones...
And still thought that that was a stupid move.
Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
Well, Falcons will pay that price.
They paid it last year, and they’re gonna be paying it this year, too. Jones better work some miracles the next couple of years for the Falcons to pay off that pick and the amount of faith the Falcons FO placed in him by making that trade.
Uh TheeRadd, ever been to Vegas?
How'd you do?
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Looking at the talent in the draft...
It’s easy to get swept away by this draft and want more picks. However, in reality, next year’s draft will feature some very nice talent as well.
We’ve tried this approach before, and it has backfired. I personally believe that the interest you pay in trading into the first round is too costly, and you end up losing value in the long run.
I’d love to have multiple first round picks. However, I really don’t want to trade in the future for it. Because next year, I also want a first rounder.
no
I don’t feel there’s a big difference in talent between the first and second round players at positions we need players.
TheeRadd. Glad you have posted for the first time . Welcome.
I understand what you are getting at and could agree with your logic. It is just that MH has hurt us badly when he played that card before and we all get knee jerk reactions to him playing it again. I would agree with trading back though, if a top 5 prospect player isn’t slipping back to us, and then picking up an extra draft pick for it.
I like collard greens.
I understand the two recent arguments. The Otah and Edwards trades. One was a reach and the other hasn't worked out to its full potential. Actuall being an ASU grad, I still believe the other will pan out.
But I believe we could get real good, real quick with an agressive draft strategy.
The Otah trade was fine.
The Brown trade on the other hand was a catastrophe.
by jojoisthemann on Jan 9, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
I would agree, even if we had a 3rd rounder this year. As it is, I don't see a player (or players) worth moving up. No how, no way.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Having Beason and Ron Edwards back are going to make more of a difference than people realize.
Then if we pick up a couple of mid level free agents (say, Terrell Thomas as insurance at CB, A solid tackling SS in Steve Gregory) then use the draft to add depth at LB. If we get a DT, that’s great. But we can’t crowd the DT position. Adding a solid but not great DT in Edwards will make worlds of difference.
That would free you up to go weighted BPA in the draft. DT, OT, WR, CB LB in that order.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 1:38 PM EST reply actions
Best player available
Is the way to go. We need two superstars in the first and second.
I agree.
I’m not completely concerned with the position they play, either.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a big Terrell Thomas fan. I think he would have the potential to supplant Gamble when the time comes.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
I think Terrell Thomas is great.
I do think the Giants may try hard to keep him. Even though they have Webster, Ross, Amukamara.
by jojoisthemann on Jan 9, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
If he could only stay healthy. Poor guy seems cursed....
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Looking at yards and points given up in a vaccum doesn't really show the whole story either
You have to look at who you are playing as well.
Games against top 10 offenses
San Fran: 3
Carolina: 6
Detroit: 6
New Orleans: 7
Green Bay: 7
Games against bottom 10 offenses.
San Fran: 5
Carolina: 3
Detroit: 5
New Orleans: 3
Green Bay:4
I don’t think it’s a shock that if you play top 10 offenses a lot and don’t play bottom 10 offenses a lot that you’ll have rather poor defense numbers.
Likewise, if you do not play top 10 offenses a lot, but do play bottom 10 offenses a lot, your defensive numbers will look great.
Umm okay
But I was talking about the draft.
You should use the reply button when talking to someone specifically
It makes it much easier to read.
You can use the reply button.
And it’ll out your post directly under the comment you’re replying to. Like this.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 2:22 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Brian Quick will not make it past the 3rd round. Someone will fall in love with his measurables.
Not saying he’s not going to be good…but there’s no way he will slide to the 6th round.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
In fact, Brian Quick might not make it out of the 1st or 2nd round.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Truth, I've seen him mocked in the second some.
He’s got a ton of natural talent but he’s still VERY raw.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Jan 9, 2012 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I mean, good receivers are becoming a dime-a-dozen.
That used to be the cliche that described the interchangeableness of RBs.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Jesus.. Is anyone watching sports center? Literally, they have not mentioned any other playoff teams whatsoever.. No I’m not exaggerating. Zip, zilch, nada about the Texans, Saints or Giants. It’s been non stop Tebow and Broncos.. Sickening. I’m at work so unfortunately I can’t change it
by PantherTrain on Jan 9, 2012 2:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions
You get to watch Sportscenter at work? Must be nice...even if it is Tebowmania.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Yep, I work inbound sales for a cable/ Internet company
by PantherTrain on Jan 9, 2012 2:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
at my job it's a punishment.
We’ve started forcing people who are late to make up the missed time by watching skip bayless give tebow verbal BJ’s.
I'll take your word for it
I haven’t turned it on today.
"What do want to say to those critics now?"
"Just sit back and watch the show." -Cam Newton
Me either. I don't watch SC that much anymore...or ESPN for that matter.
I’ve got better things to do than find out what Tebow ate for breakfast this morning.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Lol, the last time I watched SC, they had a helicopter following the LSU Team Bus from Baton Rouge to NO, giving updates for two hours.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
yeah I saw that too
Only reason was ‘cause Erin Andrews was on the bus and I was hoping she’d get more screen time.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Hah, I was wondering how much abuse she was taking on that bus...
I remember when she came to UNC for Thursday night football two years ago…
She couldn’t walk 50 yards without being heckled!
Given the events of her life recently (the peephole video)...
I’m surprised she even got on the bus.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Amen.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
She's so purdy.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Teeee-bow....Teee-bow...Tee-bow..Tee-bow!
Let’s go Tee-bow! Cha-cha cha-cha-cha!
I’m officially on the Tebow Bandwagon. I never thought in a million years that they had a chance against Big Ben and the Steelers. I also loved that last play in OT. Reminded me a lot of X-Clown.
To be fair…Big Ben was on one leg and 1/3 of the Steelers’ starting defense was on the bench.
But yeah....Teeeee-bow wins.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
by BW Smith on Jan 9, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's unexplainable but it works
Teams play like crap against Tebow, and there’s no way to describe it.
This isn’t some veiled attempt to not give him credit, but you see intelligent, veteran players make really stupid decisions when it comes to playing him.
Couple that with almost every vital impact player inexplicably being injured against him (yesterday it was Clark, Hampton and Beisel) and you have a guy who’s doing nothing but make the most of what he’s given.
I’m definitely not on the “Tebow train” because I think it will derail in less than a year, but it’s fun to watch because it makes no sense.
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 3:32 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 2 recs
Very well said.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
You're absolutely right...it defies all logic.
Must be because God is a Broncos fan.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
What happend yesterday was that the Steelers sold out against the run banking that Tebow couldn't beat them through the air.
They were wrong.
And they failed to adjust after losing half their DL starters
At that point, the pass rush wasn’t getting in Tebow’s face, and they should have switched plans.
This comment section has officially been Tater'd.
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He just has that "IT" factor
It still won’t win them a championship.
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Ike Taylor
Got owned by Demareius Thomas. I was really impressed with Thomas. Big, strong dude. Taylor is supposed to be their #1 corner and played terrible. The Steelers might be looking for a corner in the draft, although they always go BPA.
by JStewart28 on Jan 9, 2012 4:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Every vital player injured?
Ike Taylor, james Harrison, Lamar Woodley, Troy polamalu, Lawrence timmons, james farrior?
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Jan 10, 2012 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
Big Ben is always on one leg...
He’s always injured. Nothing new there.
Hate on Tebow all you want, but you can’t argue with his performance last night. I’ve criticized him the entire year of not being a legit QB, but rather Peyton Hillis playing QB. However, he threw the ball tremendously yesterday and was a legitimately good QB.
I was also enjoying watching Fox ball again. This team really isn’t anything new. IT"S FOX BALL! It’s nearly the exact same team/strategy we ran with for a while under Fox. Heavy run, vertical passing game, and heavy D. That’s pure Fox Ball.
I'll be the first to admit I didn't watch the whole game.
But the game winning throw was more Demaryius Thomas than it was Tim Tebow.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
And, it was the PERFECT playcall.
The Steelers bit on the run (why not…the opposing QB is a FB playing QB) and the Broncos took advantage of their inability to defend the possibility of a pass and their lack of starters on defense.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Personally, here's what I'd do if I was Fox and Elway
At this point the Broncos don’t have any huge weaknesses… So I would do what it takes, whatever it takes to move all the way up like Atlanta did, but id take RGIII.
Take Tebow and move him to play H-back on every down, and build a huge part of your playbook around him like Kordell Stewart.
RGIII, Tebow and MaGahee on the field at the same time running the option? It would be impossible to stop and there would be no reliable defense you could run against it
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 3:42 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
That would be fun to watch.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
You still aren't convinced?
I’ve been a skeptic all year. But he had one of the best games by a QB in the playoffs ever. Against an elite top D. Color me convinced!
An elite top D missing key starters.
It’s different when he’s doing it against Pittsburgh’s second string.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
What does he have to do to convince you, Skip?
Winning the Superbowl MVP probably wouldn’t even be enough for you…
No because the Super Bowl MVP is a media vote. He's a shoo-in if they even play in the SB.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Which they won't because NE will probably destroy them.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I thought Denver had a chance against Pittsburgh...they're pretty banged up.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
But he'd have to win the SB to win it.
You see, there’s just no convincing you. There’s nothing he could to prove to you that he’s a good QB.
Like I said, I’ve criticized him all year, but he was a legitimately good QB yesterday. And he deserves credit.
Hate on him all you want for the media attention he receives. I hate it too. But give credit where credit is due!
You can lose the Super Bowl and win the MVP.
It’s uncommon, but it has happened. Chuck Howley in Super Bowl V won the MVP even though the Cowboys lost the game.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
What Superbowl are we at?
40 something?
And you are bringing up Superbowl 5?!?!
Might as well just have brought up something that happened in the stone age!
Doesn't matter when it was.
You said he’d have to win the SB…I proved that it doesn’t have to go to a player on the winning team.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I'm glad he convinced you. I have higher standards I guess.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Depends on how they win.
Which if they do, it will most likely be how they won most of his games…with a good defensive effort and a game winning FG by the kicker.
And, why are you calling me Skip? He loves Tebow.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
True. But for some reason he loves Tebow.
I think what he does is play the unpopular card.
He hates LeBron (of course, I do too), hates Romo, loves Tebow…he just takes the general public opinion and automatically defends the opposite.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
WHAT?!?!
Ok, I’m with you on LeBron….
But….
He LOVES Romo. He’s from Oklahoma, isn’t he? I’m pretty sure on every show, he makes sure to hype up Romo and the ’Boys.
sorry...that's what I meant to say...my bad
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
No, I'm not convinced
Just as I wasn’t sold on Cam after three weeks.
Yesterday was the first game of can saw Tim Tebow won for the Denver Broncos. It was a darn impressive win, but prior they’ve been winning in spite of him, not because of him.
Until he can move an offense with regularity he lives and dies by the big play, like Michael Vick did it Atlanta and that’s just not sustainable
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 3:53 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I'd argue that's just Fox ball..
Fox had been saying the difference between a W and L was a big play. His gameplan/strategy relies on it. Same for when he was here…
If the argument is that Tebow is the next Jake Delhomme then I agree 110%, but it’s going to take alot more for me to believe he’s Steve Young 2.0
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 3:58 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Woah...
First off, I’m not arguing anything. Why does everything have to be an argument around here? Merely my opinion…
Secondly, I’ve never said the words Jake Delhomme or Steve Young. I’ve never compared him to anyone. All I’ve said was that he was a legitimately good QB yesterday. He deserves credit for that. Simple as that.
You've given him credit that you feel he deserves.
I don’t think he deserves anything because he played against a defensive unit that was missing key pieces to the puzzle.
If Pittsburgh were running at full strength or were only missing one of the players they lost, then I’d concede my position slightly. But I’m not impressed that he did what he did against a banged up unit.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
This isn't an excuse.
And why are you being so defensive anyway?
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
He doesn't enjoy debating things, IMO.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for casting judgement upon me...
I’m merely just expressing my opinion. BW is doing the same. I see nothing wrong. We’re just having a conversation, a dialogue. So what if we disagree?
I wasn't trying to cast judgement...
I’m just going off of you questioning why everything has to be a debate, lately. Nothing personal.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Why does everything have to be a debate?
As I see it, this is merely a forum for people to come and talk about the Panthers. To express their opinions.
I feel like some merely want it to be a debate forum. Some just want to see two sides square off, and a winner declared.
I don’t care to enter that. I’m just expressing my opinion. I don’t care for winners/losers, there are merely opinions here. No one is right or wrong.
What may seem as me debating others is me simply just having a curious dialogue with another. Truth be told, I don’t like debating. Because there is a winner/loser and a lot of judgement. I much prefer just to communicate ideas and opinions. So what if we disagree? We’re going to.
I don't think it has to be a debate
I do think that if someone posts an opinion that it is fair game for someone to question how the facts that the opinion is based on.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be asked to defend the reasoning for why an opinion is formed.
Sometimes, there will be consensus, sometimes, people will see things that other people do not see.
On this subject matter, I think Tebow played very, very well yesterday.
People can talk about how the Steelers were banged up, but the fact of the matter is that Tebow threw the deep passes very accurately and in places where only his receiver had a chance at it.
For the game yesterday, Tebow was great.
I’m not going to say Tebow didn’t play well just because the other team gambled that he couldn’t make plays and didn’t have a deep safety.
That said, I still wouldn’t trust Tebow long term as a QB at this point.
I think he has some promise, but I’m still not sold.
Of course it is fair for someone to inquire about someone else's opinion...
But as far as defending an opinion…no I do not believe people should have to face an inquisition from someone out to prove that they are wrong. Because after all, on most things here, no one is right and no one is wrong. They are merely opinions.
Yes, consensus can form. But that doesn’t make any opinion more or less right in my mind. Sometimes, people just think differently.
And sometimes, yes, people may see things that others don’t. Most of the time however, people see and understand the other points, but just disagree.
As far as Tebow, I completely agree with you. That was my point. I think he had a great game, and I give him credit. I agree with you. Others don’t. That doesn’t make our or their opinion right or wrong. They are merely opinions.
The fact that a consensus may form doesn't make an opion more or less right
but there are opinions that have validity and others that do not have validity.
Some of these opinions are matters of disagreement, some of these are based on factual errors.
I also don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask someone to justify the statement they made, especially if they said it in response to someone else.
Some opinions really are invalid as they are based on faulty logic or simply bad information.
For instance, if I thought LaFell dropped more passes than anyone else in the NFL, it would be a reason for me to think that the team shouldn’t start him.
However, if I stated that the team should cut him for that reason, it’s not a valid opinion as it would be based on a faulty premise.
by Philipkcks on Jan 9, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, if you dislike LaFell...
That’s your opinion. It’s not right, and it’s not wrong. If you think he drops more balls then he should, maybe you are correct. Perhaps there is another statistic or analyst out there that could support that.
Who is to decide vaildity and invadlity? Who is the validity police here? Why are we all so consumed with who’s right/valid and who isn’t?
We all have different opinions. We are never going to all agree. No one’s opinion is right or wrong for the most part.
I’m not for debating. That implies a winner/loser and a face-off. Why can’t we merely have casual conversation without judgement?
I guess I just don't see the point of throwing my opinion out for discussion
if I think that “everyone’s opinion is valid”
It’s not.
In the scenario I listed, my opinion would be WRONG. It wouldn’t be “It’s not right, and it’s not wrong”.
It would be wrong 100% because it would be an opinion based upon bad information, and as such, it would be an invalid opinion.
I would rather someone deconstruct my comment and tell me that, actually LaFell isn’t a drop machine, and that I was mistaken on that point.
I don’t think it has anything to do with a winner/loser so much as it has to do with actually refining a thought process, and pointing out things that others might have missed and/or be mistaken about.
by Philipkcks on Jan 9, 2012 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You get a point for mentioning Panthers.
Every thread that goes over 200 posts – you can bet it’s been derailed by TebowTalk.
We're both being defensive!
We BOTH disagree. Our opinions are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Naturally, we both are defensive of our opinions.
Personally, I’m really not taking this too seriously. It may seem so. But I’m enjoying this. This is just a casual conversation. We just wholly disagree.
Ok...it's hard to read tone through text. Just making sure.
If Tebow plays the same as he did yesterday against New England and whomever wins the Ravens/Texans game, then I’ll concede that there may be something there for Denver to build on. I can’t concede it if they beat the Patriots because their defense sucks, but if he gets to the SB then there’s definitely something going on.
Either that or God really wants a Lombardi Trophy for
his living room.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Fair enough...
If he sucks against the Patriots, I may be quickly jumping off the bandwagon. For now though, it’s fun, so the way I see it is why not?
If Denver beats NE...
I’m going to have to jump on the bandwagon, or vow to never watch ESPN again for the next 10 years.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Well.....
There’s the wife.
And other than that…
I do have an extreme love for food/cooking.
But yeah, 10 years with no ESPN would be tough.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Are we talking no ESPN, or no sports?
Because no ESPN I could do.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Well, the question mentioned both.
I should have put both in my reply. :-)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap…
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I give A LOT of credit to Mike McCoy for getting him into good situations and for D. Thomas for playing lights out. I think what BW is seeing is that Tebow isn’t having to squeeze the ball into tight windows. There are a lot of quarterbacks that could have made the throws he made. He doesn’t make throws that make you say “damn, not many guys can make that throw”.
by JStewart28 on Jan 9, 2012 4:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He did make throws into small windows yesterday though.
Look at his first TD pass. It was perfect.
Is he the best QB the league has ever seen? No, but he played a very good game yesterday.
I Agree
That he played well yesterday but he hasn’t done it consistently enough to make me think that he is going to be great. He definitely deserves credit for playing very good yesterday but for the future im not so sure where he fits in.
by JStewart28 on Jan 9, 2012 6:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
McCoy certainly seems to be living up to the praise Jake gave him years ago...
was so disappointed when he left for Denver…was hoping he’d be our next OC (and was equally disgusted when I found out we had hired our OC from that perennial offensive juggernaut the Cleveland Browns)!
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Here we go BW...
As usual, let’s not give Tebow any credit. It’s not like he had one of the best performances by a QB in the playoffs ever. Oh wait…
I would give him more credit if he weren't facing Pittsburgh's second string.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
And I'm not saying he should get no credit. But he shouldn't get all the credit either.
He took advantage of Pitt’s defense selling on the play-action, and threw a catchable pass (amazing feat in itself) to Thomas, who then ran it 60 yards.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
But then again...
You didn’t watch the game, did you?
Because Pittsburgh’s vaunted D was out there. There may have been some guys filling in, but the talented D was out there.
I said I didn't watch the WHOLE game.
I watched some of the game…enough to see that Pitt was playing without several key players.
If the guys they didn’t have would have been out there, the game would have most likely ended differently.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I guess I'll just have to take your word for it...
No matter what, there’s always some excuse for why Tebow is winning. Is it possible that he may be responsible? Is it possible that he IS a good QB?
I don't think it is possible.
But that’s just my opinion. Like some others believe, I think he’s a novelty, like the Wildcat in Miami was.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
case in pictures...

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by Tater596 on Jan 9, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Is Tebow the squirrel, the nut, or the cane?
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
by BW Smith on Jan 9, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wrong on all accounts.
He is everything… and nothing. He is everywhere… and nowhere. The Alpha and the Omega.
…
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lol
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
It should also be noted that Denver has a good defense and a good kicker, which are directly responsible for several of “Tebow’s” wins.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
So it only took one game to convince you that he's a good/great QB?
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
No, I can't. The best word I can spit out is slightly better than mediocre.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I don't consider taking advantage of a limping defense with backups playing as being "good".
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Does this mean Tebow = Dalton?
That seems to be something both Denver and Cincinnati could claim.
Tebow is Dalton with better hair and the ability to also play FB.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
True, that...
…and also the fact that both were getting credit for wins that only happened because of their respective defenses.
Yes...
And Tebow gets about 5000 times more credit for Denver’s defense and kicker winning games than Dalton gets for Cincy’s defense winning games.
Apparently, Dalton isn’t the reason the Cincy’s defense was worth a crap this year.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I wouldn't say he threw the ball "tremendously"
If there’s one thing he can do well, it’s throw a somewhat decent deep ball. Broncos WRs were straight up beating Pitt’s corners 1 on 1 and getting wide open down the field. He made some good throws, like the TD to Royal. But he also had several huge windows to throw through with little pressure in his face.
this^
Tebow was a very very opportunistic player yesterday. To his credit it worked for him. But if you watch the whole game, for every excellent pass Tebow threw there were 2-3 that were in the dirt, in the stands or 10 yards further down field than the receiver. He isn’t consistent and hasn’t made a game changing play with his arm where there’s a sense that it would’ve taken an elite QB to make the throw. He’s made some good looking throws. Both his passing TD’s last night looked good, but he had plenty of time and an open receiver. Given both time and space all NFL QBs are good QBs. Tebow’s strengths are leadership and keeping a play alive/making a play with his feet. As a pure passer he is below average. That said, with the Broncos team being the way it is, he might have enough help to make it to the AFC championship or perhaps further.
If you look at the teams we play next year
we are going to need an above avrg. defense. With the injury that beason had, he will not be coming back to 100% ever. I dont care if he said he would, that injury is a bitch. Its what allows you to run fast. They say at best you can only recover about 90% so he will never be the same beason. With all that being said and you look at how well we played and how close we where in our games with the defense we had. With an above Avrg defense we could be a very strong team. I think a few more impact players on defense and some depth and we could have a nice run in the playoffs!
There was a receiver yesterday who gained over 200 yards
who tore his achilles less than a year ago.
I don’t think it’s accurate to say that Beason won’t come back from it, it’s certainly possible that he won’t come back the same way he was, but it’s certainly not impossible.
Hard to say that
Demaryius Thomas tore his achilles tendon last February. I think it’d be hard to argue he wasn’t 100% this year.
Haha, love this argument, keep it going!
Beason will be back 100% and never look back. Welker camed back from his tear 2 years ago and nobody thinks he’s lost a step. Haha, I love the people that are the glass is half empty type, just because they’re so morbid and hoplessly optimistic.
It should be stated though
Beason COULD be back at 100%. There are players who do come back from their ACLs all the way. However, there are also players who never come back all the way.
Personally, I think he’ll be back, but I have to recognize that it’s not 100% assured.
Anyone know what's happening in Atlanta?
It’s like rats jumping off a sinking ship…
Their DC just left to become the DC at Auburn… Let that sink in
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 2:53 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Maybe Blank told Smith to find a new staff.
Can’t imagine he’ll be telling him to find a new job this offseason.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Wow.. And Abraham is gone also. They will be the Bucs next year, 5-11 or so.
by PantherTrain on Jan 9, 2012 2:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Im glad
makes it better for us. I hope that team crumbles faster than josh mcdaniels head coaching career
I could actually see this happening
Maybe not 5-11, but seven or eight wins yes.
"What do want to say to those critics now?"
"Just sit back and watch the show." -Cam Newton
Just ask Cam (and Cecil)...Auburn pays more than anyone else.
Ba-dum-tish.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
x

I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 9, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
This gif makes me smile.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
If it doesn't you have no soul.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
What else has happened in Atlanta?
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Mike Mularkey is gone, and John Abraham was tweeting like he’s done in Atlanta… Thanking fans for a good time there etc
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 3:21 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Wow. That's some serious business two days after a playoff game.
Can’t say it wasn’t deserved. I’ve never felt inspired by the Falcons team with Mike Smith at the helm. I think it’s really been having lack luster coordinators that has hurt him the most. Thanks for the update.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
I think you mean Brian Van Gorder...he's the DC. Mularkey is the OC who's up with Chud for the Jags' HC gig.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Mularkey should be fired, IMO.
Never understood the hype surrounding him. It seems like it started when Matt Ryan had that great rookie season, but never slowed down.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Why would we want a division rival's OC to be fired when he sucks?
They should give him a 10 year contract extension. :-)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Well as a fan, then yes... I'm with you there.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
Although they did seem to have our number...
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Well, the first game was due to absolute luck…there were a few plays where 99/100 times they don’t go the way they did.
The second time…I don’t know what happened. Probably because Sherrod Martin was trying to cover Julio Jones.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I was being facetious...wasn't actually going on facts.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I read some tweets today saying Mularkey was out too...
Van Gorder left for Auburn, but I haven’t been able to search… Maybe it was bad info
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 3:36 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Must be info from up around NJ. :-)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if Mularkey's gone too...
The only points they scored in a playoff game were from a Giants penalty in the end zone…one year after being destroyed in the first round? Yeah, someone should be fired.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
+1 James!
It’s completely counterintuitive, but I agree. While I don’t advocate not having balance, or neglecting the defense, I think that Cam is priority.
Making sure that Cam has legit talent to develop and grow with for the next ten years, I believe is the most immediate priority. Defense can wait. We can bandage it up with FA. Heck, we can go straight D for the next 5 drafts after fulfill this priority.
This is why I gave the Panthers WR Michael Floyd and OT/G Brandon Washington in my latest OTB mock.
My question to you is: if you believe your article and thesis to be true, then who would you mock to the Panthers? What would your mock look like, putting your thesis into action?
This is the last I'll say on Tebow because it's completely off topic, but I feel it's pertinent to be a little personal and throw my feelings out there
I admire Tim Tebow. It’s not because he’s an NFL star, in better shape than I’ll ever be or is making millions of dollars. I admire him because he embodies what I aspire to have, complete serenity and comfort in his faith.
I’m a Christian, and open about it- but I believe anyone should be free to worship, or not worship anything they choose, so long as it doesn’t infringe on anyone else’s personal freedoms. I am enamored with Tebow’s resolute faith in the face of people making fun of him, ‘Tebowing’ or anything else. I don’t have the thickest skin in the world, so I can’t imagine being able to turn the other cheek or crack off a snide remark in the face of millions screaming why you’ll never have ‘it’. In the same situation I don’t know if I could be so calm. I believe it’s because he has absolutely no desire to impress or win anyone over, and no desire to prove anyone wrong. It’s here when he and Cam Newton differ.
Every NFL player needs to find their center, and latch onto that one thing they can walk on the field with that’s untouchable. This is unique to many. Shannon Sharpe always said he latched on to memories of his childhood, which were often ugly, and used those to harness his play. Cam Newton has an infectious confidence and unyielding belief in his abilities which makes him near untouchable. For Tim Tebow it’s his faith, and he is so at peace with his beliefs that he becomes unflappable on the football field. His mechanics are a mess, he can’t hit the backside of a barn, and you know what? He doesn’t give a shit. Each and every down Tebow walks to the line of scrimmage and looks tabula rasa, and he’s not trying to impress anyone, and to me that comes from his faith.
I don’t think Tebow ‘deserves’ anything because he’s open with his beliefs, nor do I believe God is ensuring the Broncos move on, however, I do believe this unintelligible nature to his game that makes no sense, but works comes from his innate faith and comfort with himself. No matter what you believe, I think everyone would agree one of the best things a person can do be completely comfortable in their own skin, and it’s this that I feel separates Tim Tebow from the rest of the NFL. At the end of the day the vast majority of the league are religious, but how many are able to truly leave absolutely everything on the field and have no other concerns? Not many.
by James Dator on Jan 9, 2012 4:44 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
Good stuff James.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
What I like best about Tebow
is that he does what he can to minimize drama.
I remember Urlacher saying something about Tebow being a good RB after the Broncos beat the Bears and Tebow responded by saying to the effect that he’ll take any compliment from a player as good as Urlacher.
I hate, hate, hate the soap operas that go on in the NFL and I like that he doesn’t play into that.
That said, I wouldn’t want him as my QB.
I think he’d be a great backup, change of pace QB though(hey, we have change of pace RBs, why not QBs too).
How does he minimize the drama?
Every time he “Tebows” after a win, camera’s immediately surround him. Matthew 6:5-6 comes to mind every time he does that…
“when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.”
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
Sorry... that's my religious rant for the day Sorry... that's my religious rant for the day Sorry... that's my religious rant for the day
I’m one of those that don’t get popular religion at all. I side with Ghandi when asked if he was a Christian said… “I like your Jesus, but I could do without your Christians”
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
He minimizes the drama
by not responding by flaming the players who just insulted him.
How is it NOT minimizing drama to compliment the people who just insulted him?
Truth be told
people have been going to one knee for years and years.
Emmitt Smith did it after most of his TDs and he was known as one of the most humble reclusive NFL stars ever.
I don’t see the huge media hooplah over Aaron Rodgers belt or Cam Newtons Superman, and both of those are very personal celebrations as opposed to Tebows generic going to a knee that’s been done for decades in the NFL.
Thank you James.
One of the beautiful parts of authentic faith is that it is centered in love, and that when it is real, is so many things that are powerful to see in a person and make you so different.
What really stands out to us watching football is when one has that kind of faith they do not fear, and that is easy to see in how he plays and a big reason he has such clarity and fearlessness in the 4th quarter.
I like collard greens.
Wow how timely. Just read this on Yahoo.
At the heart of a Christian’s walk in faith is John 3:16 and this Sunday Tebow threw for 316 yards and avg’ed 31.6.
From Yahoo story:
The fact that Tebow had 316 yards passing and averaged 31.6 yards per pass in the game didn’t escape notice on Sunday night.
I like collard greens.
Cool number similarities...
But I have to say this here, since you linked the article.
I hate Chris Chase. With a passion. He is probably the worst writer this side of Mike Florio.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
He is pretty terrible
It’s as if he knows nothing about actual football… he just reports on weird stuff that happens.
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and he reports it wrong half the time too.
Like the headline that said Panthers fan forced to give ball back, and crap like that.
Right, he is one of the worst offenders of taking things out of context to grab clicks
Florio is a master of that too, maybe Chase is his Sith overlord.
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Honestly it's the only reason he still has a job.
Yahoo knows that his articles will grab thousands of views and clicks because people will visit just to hate on him. Their advertisers don’t care WHY people see their ads, just that they DO see them, and for that reason alone, he will have his job as long as he wants it, regardless that reading his “articles” makes me want to vomit.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I could care less about Tim Tebow being an adamant Christian...
Thought I do admire his heart. He always seems to be giving and self-less, and that I admire.
Even I admire Tim Tebow the person.
It’s Tim Tebow the QB (and Tim Tebow the media sensation) that I have a gripe with.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
The anti-abortion commercial during last years superbowl rubbed a lot of people the wrong way
It’s a very strong statement to make, and you are going to alienate a lot of people.
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Actually, it wasn't even anti-abortion.
The entire add is his mom saying that she almost lost him several times and that she’s glad he’s there.
I don’t see how anyone could be offended at the commercial.
The hooplah surrounding the ad before the game is where the controversy came from.
The actual ad never mentioned abortion or being pro life or anything of that nature.
The closest it comes is the tagline “Celebrate family. Celebrate life”.
Anyone who has a problem with that add is just looking to pick a fight. Granted, focus on the family is very pro life, but the ad itself was pure vanilla.
If someone was offended
they made up their minds to be offended before the add aired.
Go to youtube and watch the add again, and try to show me something that even has a hint of being offensive about it.
I can say with 100% certainty, that they'd be wrong.
You have this whole, there is no right answer, everything is valid, and noone is ever right or wrong, everything is just opinion.
So like, Japan bombed the World Trade Center in 2007 and according to you, that’s a valid opinion.
Please shut up now
and can we just delete this thread.
BTW if Tebow wants to tie his wagon to a guy who believes this:
In response to 9/11: “Question: Has God withdrawn His protective hand from the US?”
James Dobson (Founder of FOF) responds: "Christians have made arguments on both sides of this question. I certainly believe that God is displeased with America for its pride and arrogance, for killing 40 million unborn babies, for the universality of profanity and for other forms of immorality. However, rather than trying to forge a direct cause-and-effect relationship between the terrorist attacks and America’s abandonment of biblical principles, which I think is wrong, we need to accept the truth that this nation will suffer in many ways for departing from the principles of righteousness. “The wages of sin is death,” as it says in Romans 6, both for individuals and for entire cultures. "
– Focus on the Family website
“[The homosexual] agenda includes teaching pro-homosexual [sic] concepts in the public schools, redefining the family to represent “any circle of people who love each other,” approval of homosexual adoption, legitimizing same-sex marriage, and securing special rights for those who identify themselves as gay. Those ideas must be opposed, even though to do so is to expose oneself to the charge of being “homophobic.”
– “Complete Marriage and Family Home Reference Guide” by James Dobson
My observation is that women are merely waiting for their husbands to assume leadership.
-James Dobson
One of the problems with sex education… is that it also strips kids – especially girls – of their modesty to have every detail of anatomy, physiology and condom usage made explicit.
-James Dobson
Then I have every right to hate him.
And we all know that Iraq was the cause of 9/11.
Douche.
Tattoo your name on my arm
I always said my girl's a good luck charm. -The Ramones
He runs FoF and paid for the ad
Pretty much all I need
Tattoo your name on my arm
I always said my girl's a good luck charm. -The Ramones
You know, I can take the worst quotes of a lot of people and make them look like terrible people, especially when you consider context. Politicians? God I could have a ball of it.
I would look on the actions of people to define their person, not their words. Maybe you could look into some of the actions that James Dobson has done, some of the charities he has run in several countries, and then come back and tell me whether he’s still a ‘Douche’ or not.
Ditto on Tim Tebow. You know he’s been to Africa every Summer since High School trying to help the people in dire straits over there? A lot of people like to overlook that and hate on him for what he believes. Again, actions speak louder than words. How about instead of hating him you say “Thank you” for being a good man. How is that such a terrible thing.
Ditto everyone in the world pretty much. If anything, I think it’s a shame that as a society we can’t look at a person that is upfront about his Christianity without feeling the need to repress them. Let’s face it. The only thing that Tebow has done wrong is showing that he truly pious about his faith and he’s willing to openly state it. That’s it. That’s all he’s done.
And yet a lot of people have a problem with that. They cry for him to be silent. Repression. Censorship. I can think of a lot of ways to call it, but I call it like I see it. And I don’t like it, but it’s the world we live in. I’m just glad that ESPN doesn’t fall into that trap. Discussion over the QB has been fair and focused on his production on the field. That’s just the way I like it. It IS called ‘ESPN’ after all.
A refreshing contrast from the main stream media.
ACC Championship Member Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.
Clemson 2011 ACC Champions! Look forward to doing it again next year! :D
I wouldn't exactly agree that ESPNs focus has been fair
I think Tebow takes up FAR more time than he should.
The fact that Tebow gets more coverage than Rodgers and Brees combined tells me they aren’t fair in their coverage.
To be fair, I don't like Aaron Rodgers and I don't like Drew Brees. :p
I hope that someone erases the Saints, Packers, and Patriots from reality. They are all quite annoying, especially with the passing game so bloody effective with all of these defensive rule changes.
ACC Championship Member Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.
Clemson 2011 ACC Champions! Look forward to doing it again next year! :D
I don't mind either player, but I wouldn't say I'm a fan either
However, with both teams in the playoffs, and both QBs breaking very prestigious records in the season, it’s insulting that they are being overshadowed by a QB who has been average to bad all season, but had a good game in the playoffs(it should be noted that it was a good game, but nothing close to some of the clinics that Brees and Rodgers have put on this season.
I could add Brady on here too, and Tebow gets more coverage than all 3 of those QBs combined.
There is nothing Tebow can do to prevent that.
ESPN can cover who they want. While it’s true that they have been covering Tebow overwhelmingly, I can’t hate Tebow for that. It’s not his fault that the media likes him. Here’s my stance. If you don’t like the media covering Tebow, hate the media.
Otherwise it brings up analogies such as someone beating up the milkman after the fireman stole his wife. ESPN is the one truly at fault here. We should all write them letters and tell them to do a better job and bring balanced time to all teams, including us Panthers.
ACC Championship Member Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.
Clemson 2011 ACC Champions! Look forward to doing it again next year! :D
That would only make them talk more about him.
They would know you are still watching. If you don’t want to see him on the news, turn the channel. Heck, look at this thread, there are as many comments about Tebow as there are about the main article.
STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!
Oh, I'm not saying it's Tebows fault
I’m saying ESPNs focus hasn’t been balanced.
I think from reading my posts on here I’ve been pretty consistent in saying I think the Tebow hate is a bit much.
I don’t think he’s a great QB, but I do like the kid.
I don't agree with the idea that doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is good
Ditto everyone in the world pretty much. If anything, I think it’s a shame that as a society we can’t look at a person that is upfront about his Christianity without feeling the need to repress them. Let’s face it. The only thing that Tebow has done wrong is showing that he truly pious about his faith and he’s willing to openly state it. That’s it. That’s all he’s done.
I am so sick of hearing how repressed the religious majority is.
For the last time, it was not just the message, but the timing. Keep it out of a game you aren’t even playing in.
You want to take a knee, fine.
Shout out to your god? Awesome.
But was that ad really expected to change peoples minds? Was it supposed to add new members to FoF? Or was it just them blowing themselves because they have a Heisman winner on their side?
Tattoo your name on my arm
I always said my girl's a good luck charm. -The Ramones
You cannot say with 100% certainty, that I was or was not offended....
I however can state with 100% certainty whether I was offended and whether I had a right to be.
I was personally offended, not even by the content nor the tone of the add, but by its placement. I was annoyed by the content and the tone but the placement is what really tread my nerves. It was a political add in the middle of the superbowl. There’s no place for that sort of political, divisive message in the middle of one of the more universally viewed events in the world. The fact that this sub thread exists is the reason that add offended me more than Janet Jackson’s bedazzled boob ever could have. It was the wrong place, the wrong time and had absolutely no business interfering with the superbowl, regardless of whether you agree with the message. It was arrogant, and tedious and left a very impression of Tebow in my mind. I’m slowly coming around, but apparently I’m not over it yet since this rant just flowed out like water.
While we’re on the subject, Mitt Romney buying the space behind the ball at times square on new years eave, irked me too. Keep your political BS out of my entertainment options.
So like, Japan bombed the World Trade Center in 2007 and according to you, that’s a valid opinion.
This is such a horrible excuse for an argument I can barely must the strength to respond. Some statements are invalid because they are hyperbole. Some are invalid because they are straw man arguments. This abomination manages both simultaneously. Someone sound the buzzer so the next contestant can chime in.
by Floods on Jan 9, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You obviously have missed my conversation with the person to whom this was stated
As for it being a political message.
Show me in the advertisement itself what is political about the ad.
firstly,
That argument was terrible regardless of context or to whom it was directed. If you had a valid point, it was totally lost in delivery.
Secondly, I don’t have the ability to rewatch the ad right now so I’m going off of remembered impressions and I recall finding the add to be far out of context. I will go further to state that it definitely had undertones of a political message, was paid for by a religious/political group and was basically a dog whistle to draw internet traffic to that group’s web page. To state differently, no matter how benignly phrased the ad was it was still an advertisement for a political group.
The conversation was that I said that some opinions are invalid due to them being based on false evidence
the other person was saying that all opinions are valid and that every opinion had the same likelihood of being true.
Therefore, by his logic, the statement that Japan bombed the World Trade Center is a valid opinion.
Here is a link to the advertisement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqReTDJSdhE
watch it and try to explain to me exactly what part of this is political.
okay, here ya go.
straw man: “…an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position.”
The man didn’t state that Japan bomb the WTC, nor would such a statement be an expression of opinion. It would, in truth, be a faulty statement of fact. There is a fundamental difference between fact and opinion and to hold up a faulty fact as an example of faulty opinion is a prime example of a straw man.
It’s not that I don’t have the link it’s that my crappy work lap top won’t play video. I’ll check it later. I did a search and found a transcript before my last post. I admit the wording is fairly benign but again it was still an ad for a political activist group and as such had no place in the superbowl.
Look we’re not going to come to terms on this and that’s fine. I think that this blog is just as bad a forum for this conversation as the superbowl was for that ad. In the interest of not being a hypocrite (anymore) I’m going to go ahead and sign off.
As for my conversation earlier
I posited to him earlier that if my opinion was that Brandon LaFell had more drops than any other player in the NFL, my opinion would be invalid due to being based on faulty information.
His response was that my opinion would be neither right nor wrong since it was my opinion.
Hence, my statement about the WTC.
It’s not a straw man when you are accurately representing the other persons position.
As far as it being an ad for a political activist group, EVERY single corporation deals in politics.
If that add must be scrapped because of that, every add must be scrapped.
Also, do you mind all of the military appreciation that the NFL does?
because anything about a standing military is 100% a political statement, not necessarily partisan, but political nonetheless.
but that's actually more due to content
I find all armed forces ads to be glorifying and misleading and in some cases engineered to take advantage of certain groups, specifically the poor and disenfranchised.
and to reply to myself again
I’m not against the armed forces or those who serve in them. I merely find some of their recruiting techniques questionable. I have several friends who went in to the military after high school with grand expectations and who needed counselling upon their discharge. Some didn’t even see action in a war zone. All I’m saying is that the military needs to be more realistic and honest with its recruits for their own good and for its own.
I just watched it because I didn't know what you guys were talking about
I saw 0 reference to anything remotely controversial.
People were upset because there was a rumor that Tebow was filming an anti abortion ad to be aired in the Super Bowl.
They then went up in arms over it.
The actual ad ran, and it wasn’t anything like the rumors said it would be,
Many people who were up in arms about it said they overreacted, and that the ad wasn’t something to be upset over, while others still insist the ad is anti womens rights.
It would have been a total non issue except people started condemning an ad they had never seen and projected that it would be something that it wasn’t.
And that it was paid for by a group that spews hate speech
And that it aired during the Super Bowl.
I don’t care what Tebow believes. I don’t care what John Kasay believes.
Guess which one has been in a Super Bowl.
Guess which one used that platform for a political and religious message.
That’s why I will always respect Kasay.
Tattoo your name on my arm
I always said my girl's a good luck charm. -The Ramones
In the Super Bowl ad itself
show me a political and religious message.
Show me anything in the ad at all that even hints at one.
The fact that it has a link for FoF and was paid for by them
that in itself is a political and religious message.
Tattoo your name on my arm
I always said my girl's a good luck charm. -The Ramones
Who can say when is an appropriate time to run an ad?
Are you under the impression that anyone shouldn’t be allowed to spend their money on advertising on any show they want to spend it on? I Why is it inappropriate for them to spend their advertising money at a time that has the most viewers? Very few commercials that run during the superbowl are anything related with football.
STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!
The NFL turns down many adds because they are offensive or political during the SB
Tattoo your name on my arm
I always said my girl's a good luck charm. -The Ramones
You're exactly right...it's not his fault the media fawns over him.
And I hate the fact that they do fawn over him, because there are 31 other teams and 31 other QB’s…most of which are markedly better at playing the QB position.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Blaine Gabbert?
I would say there are 31 other teams and probably more than 31 QBs who are better than him, but I think there are some who are worse as well.
I dunno...
I think if you give Blaine Gabbert an NFL offensive line and WR (not a WR corps…just one WR) then I think he’d be better than what he was this year.
But you could be right…Tebow could be better than Gabbert (though that’s not really saying too much, lol).
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Based on QB rating
there are 6 QBs worse than he is(Gabbert is one of them)!
I don’t have a lot of faith in Tebow as a QB, but I do see that he does have some potential.
What I think Denver did is replace their QB with a FB who passes sometimes.
He’s rushed for 650 yards and passed for 1700.
I think he fits into Foxball really well.
Rush, rush, rush, deep ball!, rush, rush, rush, deep ball!
IMO Tebow's faith exemplifies exactly what's wrong with Western Christianity
Not to knock him, he seems like a great kid. But this is what Christians today want… An athlete who wears “Jesus” on his sleeve and wins Football games.
But when Braylon Edwards gives up 80% of his salary to send underprivaledged kids to college (a truly sacrificial Jesus-like act), there is little to no enthusiasm at all from the larger Christianity community.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Jan 9, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I do agree that it was a very worthy move by Edwards to keep his promise and pay out that money.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
worthy = classy
Don’t know why my fingers typed worthy.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
What Tebow does and what Edwards does should not be done, and I believe is not done for you , I, the Christian community, or the media.
It is done because they are good men doing what their faith or believe has taught them is the right thing to do. The problem is the media and there thirst for a story that sells, and by the rating from the Bronco game you can’t blame them for chasing it.
I like collard greens.
There are plenty of men who do good things not motivated by faith or religion.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 9, 2012 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
The media just provides the drama that people want
The reason this is controversial is because there are ALOT of Christians who think God is orchestrating Football games because a player says the name “Jesus” a lot, when actually their religion teaches that God is actually with the lowly parts of society (like those Edwards was helping).
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
I think you're doing a whole lot of generalizing there ST
To say “this is what Christians today want… An athlete who wears "Jesus" on his sleeve and wins Football games.” might as well be analogous to “this is what Muslims want today…. jihad”.
Oh I'm definitely generalizing
I know people who try to live exactly like Jesus… Right down to sacrificing their material possessions and devoting their lives to helping others. But they are the minority.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Jan 9, 2012 6:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Otah and Gettis
I noticed the little faith shown in these two in the article and just have to say that gettis was our second leading wr in 2010 by a small margin and otah is according to lots of members here actually doing the things in that he has been neglecting in his career in hitting the weight room and sliming down. Of course with otah whos to say this isnt just getting done because of this being a contract year but better late then never.
by allthatremainsstillowns on Jan 9, 2012 4:55 PM EST reply actions
add to that...
As far as it being a contract year, there has never been a rap with Otah being lazy or only motivated by money. Simply limited by injury.
When he is out there, he is one of the best RTs in the game, but he isn’t out there often.
We can only hope next year he plays a full season, dominates, and proves that he has possibly moved past those body issues.
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I think Gettis would have a break out year in 2012
If he can be a 500 yard deep thread, as a rookie with JC as his QB… Then you bet if he’s healthy he’ll light it up in this offense. I have ne reason to think Cam and LaFell won’t continue to grow together as well.
If Blackmon slips and is by far BPA when we pick, then I understand picking him. Other than that though, I’d rather us NOT bring in any WR’s and let these guys continue to blossom.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Jan 9, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bingo
it’s not like we have “homer potential” players at WR right now; there is some serious potential on our roster at WR lol even if Gettis is a bit slow coming back into his game speed, the pressure on him is lifted with Smitty re-emerging and Lafell responding well to that fire that was lit under his ass in the preseason!
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
After Gettis and Smith, our WR corps is pretty bad.
We had only 3 WR’s catch at least 2 balls all year long. With Gettis coming off of his injury, Smitty aging, and Lafell’s inability to get separation, the long term prognosis of our WR corps is not very good.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
I would actually put LaFell over Gettis at this point in time.
I have questions about Gettis just because of the injury. I have hopes for him, but I think LaFell has proven that he’s reliable.
I think over 600 yards receiving when he wasn’t in the starting lineup for half the season shows that he is a capable receiver.
Possession receivers usually don't get a lot of separation
You also have to factor our TE’s into this mix. There’s not but so many balls to go around… Especially on a team that runs as much as we did towards the end of the season.
Regardless, there’s other positions where we don’t even have a true starter.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
True, but Cam only threw to 8 guys total all year. Eli Manning hit 8 receivers yesterday..
Our WR corps is one injury away from being one of the worst in the NFL.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
So then we need depth, not top 10 rookies or big-name FA's.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
We already have a lot of late round fliers. I.e. AE, Pilares, Tutu, Adams.
We need some solid guys who can come in and create matchup problems for other defenses.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
That guy is #89
Yes we need to find his replacement. But with so many urgent holes to fill, that can wait a year.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Jan 9, 2012 6:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Problem is, Teams can put a Safety over Smitty, and it will take him out of the play.
We need a bonafide #2 WR who can cause teams to leave Smitty 1 on 1, as well as a replacement for Steve.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
And yet Steve was a top 5 WR heading to the ProBowl
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Jan 9, 2012 10:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
In the 2nd half of the season Smitty had only 476 yards.
After he had his hot start, Teams began keying on Smitty, and his numbers fell. Coincidentally, so did Cam’s.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 10, 2012 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
Right now, he's got a 2nd round grade on him.
I’m not sure we can afford to take him in the 2nd.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 10, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
We have three potential starters at WR (two of which are extremely young), and we have a TE in Olsen who basically doubles as a WR as well...
I think about 75% of the league would love to have that kind of receiving talent at the moment; pile that on top of the fact that WR is one of the easiest positions to find talent in (whose throwing it to them is far more important usually) compared to other positions, and suddenly WR is really not worth first round attention this year
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
We still don't know if Gettis will return to form after his knee injury.
And Lafell never gets more than 5 targets a game due to lack of separation. I like Olsen, but he slowed down as the season wore on. Our WR corps is about as talented as our CB corps. One good player, one player who is hyped to be a future starter, and another who is billed as a solid player.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 9, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
a #2 getting more than 5 targets is unusual IIRC (someone had a post about this earlier in the season)...
Fact is, our passing offense was extremely good this year, and given Lafell’s production near the end of the season I think he’s going to start doing his best Moose impression next season; Like ST stated above, our corps as is is not perfect, but it is far stronger than many other positions where we don’t even have potential starters (I can dig the CB comparison, but I think Lafell is closer to being a starter at WR than Cap’n is given their production this year at their respective positions).
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Our passing game slowed down significantly over the last half of the season.
In the last half of the season Cam only averaged 207 yards throwing per game, while he averaged 300 yards per game in the first half of the season. And Lafell only had 10 catches in the last 5 games of the season. Our WR Corps may not be as ravaged and desolate as some of our other positions, yet it is still a problem that must be addressed in time.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 10, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Part of our passing game slowing down
was that teams stopped stacking the box. Once teams stopped stacking the box, our running game came alive.
Our passing went down, our running went way up.
Our scoring also went up.
Yep. You could also add that teams started doubling Smitty.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 11, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
He separated pretty well on that 91 yd TD, didn't he?
by bigdavis on Jan 9, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Although Smitty was invaluable on that play slowing down the DBs...
I was really surprised by Lafell; it did seem like he was doing a good job at least keeping his distance from them as they pursued down the field…it was reminiscent of Moose’s 85 yarder against NE (minus the BAMF stiff arm at the end lol)!
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Actually I think he just out jumped the guy covering him
And then needed a big block from Smitty to avoid getting chased down
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Jan 9, 2012 10:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not really, he had that DB all over him until he made the catch.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 10, 2012 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Perfectly said
"What do want to say to those critics now?"
"Just sit back and watch the show." -Cam Newton
yes injury
The best way to prevent injury is to hit the weight room and keep your weight down if it was one problem fair enough this guy has had injuries ranging from both knees, back and ankle that I can think and that is all in just a short career. True the injuries could have come before that and can limit what you can do in it but you still need to be motivated enough to change something so your weight doesnt balloon up . Not motivated by money? come on man who in this capitalist country exclusively pro athletes isnt motivated by money
by allthatremainsstillowns on Jan 9, 2012 5:38 PM EST reply actions
Acl no big deal anymore unless your Thomas Davis
I wouldnt worry that much about his acl it will have plenty of time to heal. As for Lafell for a guy that was usually out third wr he still had over 600 yds receiving pretty good and he is a big guy at 62 and built pretty well his game isnt all about seperation Muhamed didnt get alot of that either and he was allright
by allthatremainsstillowns on Jan 9, 2012 5:42 PM EST reply actions

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