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DeAngelo Williams is the most explosive back in the NFL


A great metric for measuring the value of runningbacks is explosive plays. We're talking runs of over 20 yards. And believe it or not no one does it better than DeAngelo Williams. In fact, every 14th time he carries the ball, he rips off a 20+ yarder. He finished the season tied for third in the NFL in runs of over 20 yards. When you take into account his limited number of carries, he is by far the most explosive back in the league. Let's take a look at the numbers, after the jump...

Star-divide

LeSean McCoy 273 carries, 14 runs of 20+ yards, 1 explosive play every 19.5 carries

Matt Forte 203 carries, 12 runs of 20+ yards, 1 explosive play every 16.9 carries

DeAngelo Williams 155 carries, 11 runs of 20+ yards, 1 explosive play every 14.1 carries

Michael Turner 301 carries, 11 runs of 20+ yards, 1 explosive play every 27.4 carries

Frank Gore 282 carries, 11 runs of 20+ yards, 1 explosive play every 25.6 carries

As you can see, DeAngelo is the most consistent back in the game in terms of breaking off big gains. There has been a bunch of gum-bumping about how we gave him too much money or about how Stewart should get 75% of the carries, etc, etc. Sure, DeAngelo does get stopped for no gain more than we would like, but he maintained a 5.4 yards average for much of the year, and nearly reached 1,000 yards on only 155 carries.

Like it or not arm-chair GMs, DeAngleo will be here earning his money for at least a couple more years. I'm not trying to start a Double Trouble argument, but just in case you are curious, Jonathan Stewart carried the ball 142 times and had 6 runs of 20 or more yards, or one every 23.6 carries. Stewart is the more consistent short-yardage back, yes, but not the more explosive.

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I don't feel its as simple as this.

You need to look at the situations these guys are put into. I can think of a few of DeAngelo’s biggest runs coming straight off the option where he is tossed the ball and has a clear run. Jonathon was given more of the inside runs.

by jojoisthemann on Jan 4, 2012 3:40 PM EST reply actions  

People react as if that takes something away from Stewart.

They’re both incredible backs with very different styles.

I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 4, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think you should need to.

I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 4, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Welcome to the Cam Cave

by jdough on Jan 4, 2012 6:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I figure ice cream is something everyone understands, and I love ice cream.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure love isn't a strong enough word

to describe my relationship with ice cream. It borders on creepy.

I kinda like power running football though. It’s iike a bloody violent ballet…
When it was working it was a thing of beauty to me. - Vagus

(Please note that from now on I shall only refer to Cam as "The Newt" and Rivera as "BAMF")

Jerry Richardson: "Bitch slapping the NFL one signing at a time" - MMA_Pitbull

by The Duke Dude on Jan 4, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, true...I didn't want to come across as too weird though.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Clearly I have no such reservations.

I kinda like power running football though. It’s iike a bloody violent ballet…
When it was working it was a thing of beauty to me. - Vagus

(Please note that from now on I shall only refer to Cam as "The Newt" and Rivera as "BAMF")

Jerry Richardson: "Bitch slapping the NFL one signing at a time" - MMA_Pitbull

by The Duke Dude on Jan 4, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I dreamed about eating icecreme all night

and this is the first thing i read when i get on the computer

by pcroadrage on Jan 4, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Your path is clear, son.

I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.

by ERL on Jan 4, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

You don't want to know what I'd do for a Klondike Bar...

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

LMAO!

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

especially the Neopolitan ones...

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Original? Chocolate? Reese's? Heath?

HONEY BADGER DON’T CARE!

This comment section has officially been Tater'd.
Dropping Tater Bombs on Twitter Too! Follow me if you dare...

by Tater596 on Jan 4, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Cookies and cream! -drrrrrroooooooooooolllll-

ACC Championship Member Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.

Clemson 2011 ACC Champions! Look forward to doing it again next year! :D

by Revshawn on Jan 4, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I'll clarify.

DeAngelo is the more explosive back, he’s much faster. Stew is more adept at breaking tackles and fighting for more yards due to his size and strength. The coaching staff puts each in a position to their strengths. As a result DeAngelo had far more opportunities in the open field to use his speed. Just as Stewart, who is the better receiver, was given more chances to catch some balls out of the back field.

by jojoisthemann on Jan 4, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

He's not much faster at all.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on Jan 5, 2012 3:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Stewie gets more passes than DWill

and those passes give him plenty of room to run

by Beny on Jan 5, 2012 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

DeAngleo also leads the team in carries that net less than 2 yards. :-)

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 3:52 PM EST reply actions  

I don't know who DeAngleo is...I meant DeAngelo.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

DeAngleo was the fifth Ninja Turtle, IIRC.

I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.

by ERL on Jan 4, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

That's where I remember him from....

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Barry Sanders lead the league in negative yardage practically every season of his career.

I would argue Barry was the most explosive RB in NFL history.

I also believe that DeAngelo is the most talented RB since entering the NFL, however he has been underutilized. What a shame it is that this guy is mega-talented yet never was on a team that really used him consistently. That includes his breakout 2008!

Welcome to the Cam Cave

by jdough on Jan 4, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that a big reason why J-Stew and D-will do have such a great YPC

is because they split carries, and are fresh all game. I think if either of them were a traditional feature back their YPC would be lower.

by Philipkcks on Jan 4, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Sweet. Thanks!

I know I probably could have put the data in a table but not sure how to do all that…

I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.

by ERL on Jan 4, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I can’t figure out how to get a table in my computer monitor either…

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

When you figure it out let me know…

I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.

by ERL on Jan 4, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Great post ERL!

Keep that up. I love me some DWills talk. The guy is amazing when he is used consistently.

Welcome to the Cam Cave

by jdough on Jan 4, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions  

This stat is why I said earlier this season that you can't take out the highest and lowest runs to get his average.

If you took out his best and worst run every game his average for the season would be like 2 ypc.

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 4:25 PM EST reply actions  

We should totally have this discussion again.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

You mean like Goodson being better than Pilares?

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

actually now that you mention it. Goodson still may be better than Pilares.

Pilares had 1 return for a td, and he had 1 decent return that didn’t go for a td. Goodson was doing a lot of other things other than just kick off returns. But I can’t argue that he is better, he just might be.

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL ok.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

With that logic

I might be a Jedi.

I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 4, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry, you're just a Padawan.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

How does finding a glaring flaw in your thought process equate to sucking up?

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Two things...

1) They’re not my minions. Just because they agree with me and disagree with you doesn’t make them my minions. If they were my minions I’d do even less work around here than I already do.

2) You’re allowed to have an opinion. But, others are also allowed to believe your opinion is flawed.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

You have a complex if you think BW has minions.

I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 4, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey now...are you trying to say that I'm not capable of having minions?

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry dude.

You fight logic using circular and flawed reasoning. I’ve had my own personal debates with you, they’re infuriating. Sometimes I feel compelled to step in, simply because I find it enraging seeing someone constantly use straw man tactics, filling up threads.

I’m done.

I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 4, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

You jumped in with the brilliant defense of "according to that logic I could be a jedi"

What do you expect to accomplish with that?

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Like I said.

I’m done.

I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 4, 2012 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Yet you continue.......

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really...he didn't add anything new to the conversation.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Opinions don't need facts to back them...that's why they're opinions. :-)

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

So then what is there to debate?

It’s okay to just jump in to take your side with no evidence? That is why they are your minions.

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I was being facetious...that's what the smiley-face is for Bernz.

Instead of getting butt-hurt over people agreeing with me and disagreeing with you and calling them “my minions”, perhaps you should investigate why so many people disagree with you, and…I don’t know…be open to the possibility that you’re not always 100% right about everything.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I never said I was 100% right about everything have I?

But when I give my opinions and you disagree, what do they have to offer to the discussion when they jump in with “according to that logic I could be a jedi”? no they can’t be a jedi. & Yes Goodson could be better than Pilares.

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

This.

The Jedi are characters in the Star Wars universe and the series’s main protagonists.
Now show me where this Star Wars Universe is located.

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey!

Star Wars is real man!

"When you do something you love you don't have to work a single day in your life... I still haven't worked a single day in my life!" ~Carlos Santana

by Panther4Life!!! on Jan 4, 2012 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

On that note

the evidence for Goodson not being as good as Pilares is as follows.
Pilares had a 25.7 yard average in returns this season with 0 fumbles and a TD
Goodson never had more than a 22.7 yard average and over his career has an average of 21.7 with 2 fumbles and 0TDs.

by Philipkcks on Jan 4, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

The main debate for them both was before Pilares had the td return

and before he had that 74 yard or whatever it was. It was when Goodson had a better ypa than Pilares and people were saying Pilares was better with no evidence. Sure now you can say he is better, & I stated up above this mess that I can’t say Goodson is better now.

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

You've stated twice in THIS thread

that Goodson may still be better than Pilares

by Philipkcks on Jan 4, 2012 6:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes notice I said MAY?

When we had this debate, I gave the evidence of why he was.& I still say may because other than those 2 runs Pilares had, he has done absolutely nothing. Goodson however was playing in other roles on the team.

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

This is my first reply about the Goodson Pilares debate.
But I can’t argue that he is better, he just might be.

That is a quote from it. Do you see where it says I can’t argue that he is better?

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, if you can't understand that a better average, more TDs, and fewer fumbles

and you still argue that Goodson “may be better” I don’t know what else to say there.

I think there is exactly as much evidence that Goodson may be better as there is that he might be a jedi.

by Philipkcks on Jan 4, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay that's why I said I can't argue that Goodson is better isn't it?

Now according to your words, before Pilares had his touchdown return, Goodson had the better stats, yet everyone was arguing that Pilares was better. So could I have been the Jedi back then?

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 6:32 PM EST up reply actions  

So are you saying it is impossible

for someone to have a couple of good games to be worse than someone else? I believe Goodson has had a td return from a kick off, just not in a reg season game.

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 6:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I would say that Pilares this season was hands down

better than Goodson has been in any season.
In the future, it’s possible Pilares could blow out a knee or something and become worse than Goodson, but I would say that, yes, it’s impossible for Pilares to be worse than Goodson right now.

by Philipkcks on Jan 4, 2012 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

To have an opinion is 1 thing, to say it is impossible is another.

I am not going to argue with you that Goodson is better after I have plainly told you 5 times I can’t argue that he is.

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

that's true you can't.

Off 1 season you can’t say who will be better in 5 years. Some QBs have a good year then flop. Some QBs have a bad year then excel.

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

By that same token

I also can’t say it’s impossible that Canada will annex the United States.

by Philipkcks on Jan 4, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think you understand present tense either

“is” is not the same thing as “might become”

by Philipkcks on Jan 4, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I believe the present means now doesn't it?

And now where are the players?

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I am done with you,

all you want to do is argue so have fun with it alone. Oh, and as for the evidence of this, read your first post in this thread to me.

What evidence do you have to show they couldn’t be a jedi?
by Philipkcks on Jan 4, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

and there is none

the same evidence that you showed that Goodson “may” be better than Pilares

by Philipkcks on Jan 4, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice!

ACC Championship Member Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.

Clemson 2011 ACC Champions! Look forward to doing it again next year! :D

by Revshawn on Jan 4, 2012 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

So that's you conceding then?

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on Jan 5, 2012 3:11 AM EST up reply actions  

conceding to what?

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 5, 2012 9:35 AM EST up reply actions  

No, you've never "said" it.

But your debate tactics show a pattern of someone who can’t admit that he’s wrong about things.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Why should I admit I am wrong when nothing is shown to convince me of it?

I could just as easily say you didn’t say you are wrong.

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Because from time to time there is sufficient evidence to convince you, and you ignore it.

Or refuse to back down.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I have not seen any evidence you speak of.

Not 1 bit of evidence.

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay then.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I actually think

Goodson might be better than Pilares too

by Martin LatinFire Gonzalez on Jan 4, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he is

Pilarez has had 2 big runs but he is consistently stoped before he even reaches the 20. It’s really annoying to start at the 15 but Pilarez gets stopped early way to often. I also dont think i have ever seen Pilarez break a tackle. His big runs came from big seems, he is always taken down by the first guy. Goodson at least makes some moves and gets past the first defender.

by pcroadrage on Jan 4, 2012 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. The biggest problem

I, and the coaching staff obviously had with Goodson, was his fumbling. But hell even Tiki Barber and Adrian Peterson fumbled early on in their career. After having 20 in his first 3 years now he has only had 2

by Martin LatinFire Gonzalez on Jan 4, 2012 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

AP's upside

is far better than Goodson’s. That gives him a bit more wiggle room when it comes to fumbles. Goodson might have a higher ceiling than Pilares but not enough to make up for ball security issues.

Furthermore, fumbling as a running back is not as bad as fumbling as a kick returner. The kick returner fumble always comes after the other team has just scored. If he fumbles the kick it is potentially an immediate red zone situation for the opposing team unless he manages to make it past the 20 prior to fumbling. Sure a RB can fumble in his own redzone as well, but it is less likely, simply because of the fact that the KR always handles the ball in the redzone whereas only 20% of a RB’s carries should be in his own red zone.

Back to Pilares v Goodson,
I believe Rivera’s philosophy on the subject is to raise the floor rather than the ceiling. With a Newton-led offense he knows that an 80 yard drive is quite doable. This makes touch backs and ~20 yard returns acceptable. With our sieve-like defense a fumble by the KR is definitely 3 points and likely 7 points for the opposition.
***************************************************
TLDR: Ball security > long returns.

by Floods on Jan 4, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

From what I can find all Goodson's fumbles came during rushing.

I can’t find a site that tells of any fumbles during kick off returns.
This is what I could find.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/12499/mike-goodson

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 10:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay nevermind I found it.

He has 2 fumbles on returns in 2010. None in 2011.

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 10:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Do they count muffed kicks as fumbles?

I thought they did and he definitely had at least 2 muffed kicks. The first one was in the end zone and counted as a touch back so maybe they didn’t record it. That was the beginning of the dog house. The second came out of the EZ and he ended up picking the ball up and taking it out for his longest return of the season (like 30 yards I think)

"One step at a time"

by mcdonaldwr on Jan 4, 2012 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

The Problem with any of this logic

Is that Pilares has to deal with every kick he has ever recieved 5 YARDS deeper then goodson recieved it, so dont know who that argues for but it is what it is… And goodson did always seem to at least make a move against the first guy but could never get seperation after that, Pilares gets hit and dropped..

by Whitt2k1 on Jan 4, 2012 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I believe that I pointed out the last time when BW & I talked about this that

Goodson returned it from deeper in the endzone than Pilares does on average and Goodson took it out farther on average. Of course, that was before Pilares had the td and other long return, so that bringing it out farther average has most likely changed now.

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I have a hard time feeling that goodson is better.

Pilares has had 1/3 of the KRs and has a touchdown and a 74 yard return. Goodson has neither.

I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 4, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

And No I didnt mean like that, I meant like this article.

I also meant like how Rivera said someone with a broken foot wouldn’t go on IR, then a few days later placed him on IR.

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Did Rivera explicitly state that Naanee wouldn't go on IR?

I don’t recall him saying that.

If he did, he did…but I don’t remember reading/hearing that he said he wouldn’t.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Do you have a link?

I seriously never saw or heard anything about that.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks...

If he said “probably not”, then to me that doesn’t equal “he will not be put on IR”. It leaves open the possibility that he could be put on IR.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

No....I'm not defending anything.

To me it’s a non-issue.

But if he said “probably not”, then it does leave the possibility open for something else to happen.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Well he pretty much said he wouldn't, sayin that whoever they activated probably wouldn't play anyway.

I was surprised after Naanee was IR’d because I had seen this too. But no he never stated that he definitely wouldn’t

by jojoisthemann on Jan 4, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Some of that may be up to the Hurnster, anyway.

That’s what cool people call him, btw.

I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.

by ERL on Jan 4, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I call him Marty McFly.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

the hurnia

Save us Pilares

by LimeyPanther on Jan 4, 2012 5:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

But 11 runs of 20+ yards on only 155 carries is impressive, no matter how we try to manipulate it.

What happened actually happened. I mean, what ifs are what ifs. What if my mother was my father? You just can’t ‘take away’ actual occurrences to make something look better or worse than it actually is.

I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.

by ERL on Jan 4, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Alright. Well, no need to rehash it.

But this is how the elusive backs do it. Look at Barry Sanders. He lead the league in negative runs but is probably one of the best three or four backs to ever play the game because of the one long outlying run he did pop.

I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.

by ERL on Jan 4, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not your mother, son.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

This was what I was talking about when the debate about keeping D-Will came up in the off season

I was too lazy to look up the stats to back it up, but back then I was saying that D-Will reminds me of Barry Sanders. He might get stopped for 1-2 yards, or even -1or -2 yards, but when he sees a crease, he’s gone. You can’t measure that. He just has a knack for blasting though the line and into the secondary before anyone can catch him. If he’s within 25 yards of the end zone, it’s normally a TD. I was a big proponent for resigninhg him, and I’m so glad we did. He’s one of my favorite players to watch.

Iranian Air Defense Site: 'Unknown aircraft you are in Iranian airspace. Identify yourself.'
Aircraft: 'This is a United States aircraft. I am in Iraqi airspace.'
Air Defense Site: 'You are in Iranian airspace. If you do not depart our airspace we will launch interceptor aircraft!'
Aircraft: 'This is a United States Marine Corps FA-18 fighter. Send 'em up, I'll wait!'
Air Defense Site: (... total silence)

by Tarheel Soldier on Jan 4, 2012 4:56 PM EST reply actions  

The good news is we have an excellent O line that can get even better in the offseason

Without good blocking, Deangelo is horrible. If you do provide the proper blocks, he will take it the distance as evidenced by his 50+ runs this season. DBs don’t have a chance against him.

by Atlantapanther on Jan 4, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Still not getting respect!

2008 he had 1500+ yards. He had EIGHTEEN TDs and he had ZERO FUMBLES!
He should start an “anti-fumble” clinic. Young running backs from high schools and colleges around the nation would flock to learn from him.

by criolle johnny on Jan 4, 2012 5:28 PM EST reply actions  

Didn't he have like 3 years or so without a fumble?

I seem to remember something like that.

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Jan 4, 2012 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Our backs truly are Smash and Dash

Deangelo gets stopped at the LOS often but compensates by breaking off big ones.
Stew constantly gets the tough yards and gets a big run here and there.
All in all I’d say that is a perfect mix considering they both ended with 5.4 ypc
By the way, Cam, Deangelo, and Stew are ALL in the top 8 rushers this season in terms of ypc. That is INSANE
I suspect they’ll finish the same ypc next year except I want to see the total yardage from Cam decreased and added on to our faithful RB’s.

by Atlantapanther on Jan 4, 2012 5:53 PM EST reply actions  

this doesnt really matter to me... i still prefer j-stew

Here’s why… D-will is our teams version of the greased up man from family guy running around singing ’you’re never gonna catch me’. J-stew is our version of juggernaut from x-men. I just prefer his style. To be fair our unning game has been taken to new levels of completely awesome. Coupled with how little we ran at the start of the year, you just can’t take anything away from triple trouble. They all earned their corn this year

Save us Pilares

by LimeyPanther on Jan 4, 2012 5:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

So you said you would explain why but you didn't

You only compared them to cartoons. J Stew’s style is awesome but I think he’s more successful because of Deangelo in terms of both splitting carries and the alternative style. Both of their ypc will decrease if you start favoring one back with carries.

by Atlantapanther on Jan 4, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

He did give his reason why

He prefers J-Stews style of running.
He isn’t bashing D-Will at all. He’s saying he likes a runner who runs over people.
I think it’s more exciting watching a stiff arm from hell than watching a back make someone miss as well.

by Philipkcks on Jan 4, 2012 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly

Save us Pilares

by LimeyPanther on Jan 4, 2012 6:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

yeah... i said i just prefer his style

I never said he should get more touches than d-will. You can’t say one is more important than the other because of what they’ve contributed this year….which I did mention. Sorry mr grumpy pants, did you not like cartoons?

Save us Pilares

by LimeyPanther on Jan 4, 2012 6:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

D-Will and Stew are great backs, who had great years this season.

I think they both have the potential to rush for 1000 yards next year. We will have greater depth and talent on the O-Line next year, and teams won’t load the box to prevent them from running.

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Jan 4, 2012 6:13 PM EST reply actions  

I don't think so.

Our offense is a pass-first offense now with Newton, as our passing game sets up our run plays. Back in the 2009-2010 season, they both got 1100+ yards because DeAngelo was injured for the last few games, and Stewart really pounded the defenses he played.

Plus, our passing game was nowhere as good in 2009-2010 as it was this season.

With Newton now, he’s also a great threat to run the ball with, so I don’t see there being 2 1000 yard rushers happening next year. As much as I would like it, I don’t see it happening.

by CanadianPanther on Jan 4, 2012 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

The passing game has really drawn down the last quarter of the season.

Cam averaged only 21 attempts and 170 yards per game during the last 4 games of the season. I don’t necessarily see both of them reaching 1000 yards, but I think that both of their numbers will go up into the 800-900 range.

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Jan 5, 2012 6:52 PM EST up reply actions  

DWills crazy 2008 stats in perspective.

I said above that DWills has never been completely utilized. Here are the carries per game in 2008 for DWills:

18, 11,10,15, 20*, 11,18, 17*, 19*, 14*, 19*, 14*, 19*,

21
, 19*, 12, 24*, 25*, Playoff loss- 12

He only had four games with 20 or more carries. He finished with 1515 yards 18 TD’s and a 5.5 ypc avg…..Yikes!

Welcome to the Cam Cave

by jdough on Jan 4, 2012 6:58 PM EST reply actions  

Jesus.

I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.

by ERL on Jan 4, 2012 7:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes?

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 4, 2012 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t like what you’ve done with your hair…(or your face).

I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.

by ERL on Jan 5, 2012 9:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Well played.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 5, 2012 9:38 AM EST up reply actions  

I wonder how Jamaal Charles will end up.

He’s currently at 499 carries, 4 years, and a 6.1 ypc average.

by Philipkcks on Jan 4, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends on how durable he is

He’s quite small for a feature back (5’11" 199 lbs).

by JDeLong42 on Jan 4, 2012 7:39 PM EST up reply actions  

He was a beast his first 3 seasons

We’ll see how he goes from here on out.
Personally, I like the guy even though I detest the Chiefs.

by Philipkcks on Jan 5, 2012 4:31 AM EST up reply actions  

That's amazing.

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Jan 4, 2012 8:00 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Boom

Roasted

"The way y'all are lollygaggin around here with them picks and them shovels, you'd think it was 120 degrees...can't be more than 114."

by SouthernPanther on Jan 4, 2012 8:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I still prefer Stewart

I love seeing Dwill fly like anyone but constency moves the chains and influences the way the d plays you. How will williams get the opertunity to make those explosive runs if he gets carries of little to no yards cant stick with an ineffective run game forever and a big run here and there certainly doesnt keep our awful d off the field

by allthatremainsstillowns on Jan 4, 2012 8:39 PM EST reply actions  

DWill should be Stewart's change of pace back

Because Stewarts more all purpose.

This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.

by southtunnel on Jan 4, 2012 10:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

still a little new to the site

is this what’s called a non postseason fan meltdown?

I jest. sorta :P

by Lost_terrapin on Jan 4, 2012 8:55 PM EST reply actions  

Whether its Williams or Stewart

I’m just glad they play for Carolina.

Integrity first. Service before self. Excellence in all you do. -- USAF Core Values

by Disciple of Carolina on Jan 4, 2012 9:05 PM EST via mobile reply actions   1 recs

not 2008 sir

he was much more consistent that year likely because the two were combining for usually 32 plus carries a game and they were actually wearing down defenses and playing with leads late in games unlike this year when the two dont combine for half that in alot of games

by allthatremainsstillowns on Jan 4, 2012 9:07 PM EST reply actions  

Stewart was starting at the end of the season... That says it all

You pay a guy fat stacks and then start the other guy. I like DWill, as long as he doesn’t come at the cost of losing Stewart when his contracts up. Something will have to give at that time… Either a RB or somebody’s cash.

This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.

by southtunnel on Jan 4, 2012 10:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

He didn't start week 14 and 16

But he did start in weeks 15 and 17. They split the starts at the end.

Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91

by Jake Humphrey on Jan 4, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I really don't think one is a starter over the other

They split carries almost 50/50. Whoever is listed as the “starter” or gets the first few plays is really irrelevant.

by JDeLong42 on Jan 4, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions  

didn't we open up with 2 back sets on those games?

if not, we should do that more often. let them both start.

by Beny on Jan 5, 2012 12:32 AM EST up reply actions  

That isn't about who is better.

That’s about what personnel grouping the start the game with.

I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.

by ERL on Jan 5, 2012 9:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Confused

I am one of the guys that says we shouldn’t have given D-Will the money. I never doubted his explosiveness or talent. I’ve been saying for awhile that he is one of the best in the league. Lots of people on here have been saying the same thing. How he compares to Stew is irrelevant when talking about the money. He only gets 9 carries a game. Other guys in the same pay range get 25 touches a game, and even 15 on a slow day. He doesn’t. He’s not worth the money because we choose not to give him the ball. He is certainly skilled and talented enough, but for a guy who gets 5.4 YPC, why does he only get the ball so few times? Well he, Stew and CAM combined for about 27 carries a game. I would rather give Stew the ball 18 times a game, and pay a better DT and/or CB. Not only that, but I think Stew could get 12 -15 carries a game, and give Goodson the ball 5 times or so. Goodson is no D-Will, but there would be money left over for the defense. CJ and Kracken combined for about 14 sacks. Those two plus Fua and McClain totaled 15 or 16. Jared Allen got 22, and several others beat our front four all by themselves.

I would rather have Stew, Carlos Rogers and Cullen Jenkins (or Cofield or Abrayo Franklin) than D-Will and Stewart. But another thing to consider is that those of us who say he should go aren’t complaining about his talent, explosiveness, or the Superbowl he’s gonna help us win next year.

by usana_gaines on Jan 5, 2012 12:46 AM EST reply actions  

right ive had an amazing idea!!

Actually its stupid but I don’t care. Continuing from the insane idea of drafting richardson to further bolster our amazing running game, we pick up jesus… I mean tebow after denver chews him up and spits him out to be our full back/change of pace quarterback! Then we’ll have five amazing runners and we can just run all the time for 5,000 yards a game.@ I’m a genius, I demand to be made gm of the panthers@. Gotta love a strong running game. You can keep your jenkins and rogers

Save us Pilares

by LimeyPanther on Jan 5, 2012 7:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Epic fail, but you know what I meant

Save us Pilares

by LimeyPanther on Jan 5, 2012 7:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

So we have the most elusive back and the most explosive? Nice

"What up? We're three cool guys looking for other cool guys who wanna hang out in our party mansion. Nothing sexual. Dudes in good shape encouraged. If you're fat, you should be able to find humor in the little things." Again, NOTHING SEXUAL

"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.

you guys are like a bunch of pirahnas
by chop goes da weazel on Mar 31, 2011 12:32 PM PDT

by MikeTrain on Jan 5, 2012 11:41 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

i think dwill and jstew will both have even better years next year

if you recall, it took us a good 5 games or so for them to get going (even though they have a knack for starting slow, and they had some moments in those games). But for d-willy to exceed 800 yards and jstew 700 while having that many poor games, is crazy. I don’t see the need for a big offensive weapon in the draft this year because of these two guys, as well as cam obviously. Sure Steve doesnt have many years left but if david gettis comes back healthy and brando keeps growing, we’ll still be a very potent offense.

by panthers3428 on Jan 6, 2012 6:19 PM EST reply actions  

agree

our offensive strategy should center on keeping key pieces in place and shoring up the OL.
our defensive strategy should center on replacing our defense with one that will stop the other team from scoring.

by Floods on Jan 7, 2012 7:13 PM EST up reply actions  

usana_gaines

very well said and arguement I have been using all year of course as succesful as our offense has been and never really being out of games another good question is with our backs both averaging 5.4 yards per carry why didnt we run it more. I mean when you look at the second half struggles that cam and the offense has had why not come out runing and use that to get some easy playaction yards?

by allthatremainsstillowns on Jan 9, 2012 2:48 PM EST reply actions  

I'll tell you why we didn't run it more...

3,829 yds gained passing, on 519 attempts = 7.4 yds per pass.

by bigdavis on Jan 9, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

26 rushing TDs
21 passing TDs
17 passing TO
3 Running TO

by pcroadrage on Jan 11, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Excellent counter.

I’ll add that when we were on a winning streak we were running the ball well. When we were 2-8, not so much.

I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.

by ERL on Jan 11, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

ohhhhhhh pretty numbers

I might be a little late to the party and these may have been mentioned already but there are some numbers I just wanted to throw out there for fun.

1.) For this season when it comes to RBs with at least 100 Carries, DeAngelo and J Stew (both at 5.4ypa) are tied for third in the NFL (with Darren McFadden) only behind Fred Jackson and DeMarco Murray (both at 5.5ypa) (Darren Sproles had 6.9ypc on 87 attempts which I believe would be an NFL record for RB if he had 100 Carries)

2.) In 2009 (The Panthers aww inspiring and record breaking rushing year) the panthers had 2498 yards rushing on 525 attempts

In 2011 the Panthers had 2408 yards rushing on 445 attempts

That is only 90 less yards on 80 less attempts, I will take this years rushing game over 2009 any day of the week.

3.) Just to make Cam happy I’ll throw in the fact that he has the highest YPC average in the league for all players over 100 carries at (5.6) what I will say on this aspect is that I would trade that for Michael Vicks average of 7.8ypc on 76carries in order to get Cams total carries down and extend his career. But considering Cam is far smarter then Vick and slides when he could gain another 2-4 yards to prevent injury I can live with a lower average but more carries in this aspect.

by RicFlairOGP on Jan 11, 2012 3:17 PM EST reply actions  

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