Mocking In The Free World: Walter's Latest
by James Dator on Jan 25, 2012 2:21 AM EST
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We have a new 1st round pick mocked for the Panthers, and without too much surprise it's LSU DT Michael Brockers. There's no player who Indianapolis will mean more to than Brockers whose performance at the combine will determine whether he is selected in the bottom part of the 1st round as a developmental pick, or if he vaults himself into the top 10 by looking like an elite DT prospect. At this stage most pundits are betting on the latter. In a class already weak at DT he already looks able to start in the NFL now, but has a Jason Pierre-Paul level of upside as he's destined to add more weight to his frame in an NFL strength and conditioning program.
While I'm a big fan of Brockers, I'm not a huge fan of the need heavy 2nd and 4th round picks Walter has going to us. I'll look at these after the jump.
2nd round: Stephon Gilmore
I understand the methodology behind mocking us the next best CB, but I'm just not a fan of this South Carolina cornerback. When I watch tape on him I don't see a player with the physical tools to exceed in man coverage and though he has the ability to be a premier run stopper at the position I just don't see a player with a 2nd round grade.
4th round: Senio Kelemete
The big guard from Washington is a jack of all trades, master of none. The problem I have with this is that we already have a similar player in Geoff Schwartz. When I see Walter mock players like TE Michael Egnew (a natural replacement for Jeremy Shockey in time) and WR Juron Criner (who I think could develop into a solid #2 WR) after us taking Kelemete I can't help but feel like we're getting stuck with a player that represents pure need without any attention to BPA.
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i dont think many Mocks will hit on what we will do in the draft. They may get one or two right but most will likely be way off. I think Rivera and co are too raw to really get a feel on what they think and where they are likely to go
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"I don't see no ceiling. I don't see no breaking point." - Cam Newton
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 25, 2012 4:07 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
DT Fletcher Cox Is Better, 4 Time SEC Defensive Player Of The Week In 2011
Blockers and Cox are both 21, but Cox has actually played for 3 years, while Blockers is a “One Year Wonder” (playing very little in 2010).
Their stats are very close in tackles, but Cox has a pass rush, and may be a little faster than Blockers.
Fletcher Cox – 56 tackles, 14.5 TFL’s, 5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, in 2011
Michael Blockers – 54 tackles, 10 TFL’s, 2 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 1 blocked FG, in 2011
by PanthersRoar on Jan 25, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly that would be my question.
"Hope for the best plan for the worst"
"They laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at them because they're all the same"
The fact that Cox took three years to get to that point
And Brockers did it in only one season, tells me his ceiling is much much higher.
"What do you want to say to those critics now?"
"Just sit back and watch the show." -Cam Newton
Brockers has much better talent playing around him than Cox.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 25, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
I beg to differ.
Brockers had the Honey Badger, Mo Claiborne, Eric Reid, Sam Montgomery, and Kiki Mingo around him. All or most of those guys are better or equal players, with commensurate ceilings. I can’t even name one guy from Miss. State’s defense off of the top of my head.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 25, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
The only guy on that list
That right now is a higher rated prospect is Claiborne. Brockers’ ceiling is one of the highest in the whole draft.
"What do you want to say to those critics now?"
"Just sit back and watch the show." -Cam Newton
Potentially, yes.
But Brockers’ play was enhanced by playing with one of the top defenses in the NCAA. Put him on UCLA or Maryland and he doesn’t put up equivalent production.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 25, 2012 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
Says who?
Imo,he would’ve dominated if he played for another school in a weaker conference
Panther Pride 'till I die.
Its a chicken or egg bit
Atlanta is a good example from this season. They bring in Ray Edwards, who had excellent production in Minny, with the potential that his stats were a product of the guys next to him. Turns out they were, and ATL fans are very dissapointed with that FA pickup.
The first pick itself is still in the air
No one really knows how a team will draft or how much a player’s stock will rise or fall. If I’m not mistaken, this time last year, we were projected as taking Marcel Dareus #1. Correct me if I’m wrong but the projections for us taking Cam didn’t really start happening until after the combine.
Integrity first. Service before self. Excellence in all you do. -- USAF Core Values
by Disciple of Carolina on Jan 25, 2012 7:40 AM EST reply actions
With 2nd i think we will
take best player available at a variety of positions. I agree that in this scenario Gilmore will be a reach here. Of course, it should be noted that Walt had Brockers going very bottom of 1st in his draft 4 or 5 days ago. Brockers value is so up in the air until combine i wouldn’t fall in love yet.
I'm glad to see a potentialy elite prospect at DT emerging
and continue to hope he grades out to be worth a #8/#9 pick. Not sure about the Gilmore pick, we really need to hit on our 2nd rounder this year.
I like it, the Brockers pick I mean
Of course, now that the national pundits have mocked him to us it won’t happen.
This comment section has officially been Tater'd.
Dropping Tater Bombs on Twitter Too! Follow me if you dare...
I project a trade back...
Trade our first and second (and maybe Mike Goodson) for the Bengals’ 2 first rounders. Then we select Brockers and Mercilus. I am real big on Mercilus. He’s like the Honey Badger of de’s. Plus, he could play standing up or with his hand in the dirt, which would come in handy with our hybrid D.
Consider all of the top defenses in the league, a top notch front seven with an ok secondary, ie: Pitt, Bal, Nyg, SF, Den, Cin…
We need top notch talent on the D-line.
by BSKincaid on Jan 25, 2012 8:34 AM EST via mobile reply actions
No way we trade them 8 and 40 for 17 and 21. That isn't enough value for us.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
Oh my bad...
I figured it was, giving up 9 spots, from 8 to 17, to gain 19 spots, from 40 to 21. Seemed sufficient to me. Shows my ignorance.
by BSKincaid on Jan 25, 2012 9:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well, it's not that far-fetched, but usually with a trade like that, we would give them back a third, not a second.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
The Bengals wouldn't role those dice.
http://www.catscratchreader.com/2012/1/19/2720168/blogger-round-table-oroy-newton-or-dalton
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 25, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We need a highlight video on Gilmore...
I know the SEC pundits liked him…USC has put some good corners out in recent years. Robinson, Joseph, Munnerlyn (seems there is one more good one). In a draft deep at DL and DB he could slide to the 3rd
Most of his highlights are of him getting beat cause he can't find the ball in the air. :-)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Disagree he stepped his play up this year
If anything he has great physical tools.. 6’1 no body fat, good tackler. Better in zone but is still young enough to develop
"What up? We're three cool guys looking for other cool guys who wanna hang out in our party mansion. Nothing sexual. Dudes in good shape encouraged. If you're fat, you should be able to find humor in the little things." Again, NOTHING SEXUAL
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
you guys are like a bunch of pirahnas
by chop goes da weazel on Mar 31, 2011 12:32 PM PDT
by MikeTrain on Jan 25, 2012 11:15 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
He still can't find the ball in the air though.
He’s solid in run support, but he sucks at locating the ball.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
The Problem With Walter and Other Mock Drafts...
is that they rarely take into account the historic draft strategies of each team. It’s the same reason that Mel Kiper’s mock drafts are only partially correct when draft day comes. Sure, we need a DT. Sure, we need a CB. Sure, we need a DE/LB. But we don’t operate on what we “need”. We are one of the ultimate BPA teams, especially in the 1st round. So, forget the hype on Brockers until after Indy, and remember that these mocks are going to change four or five more times before we even get to the Combine.
by w-s panther on Jan 25, 2012 9:27 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Hear, hear!
Especially Walts drafts. I much rather go by Charlie Campbells that ususally come out on Fridays on walterfootball. He seems better at understanding the stuff you mentioned above.
CB
I really hope we can grab Janoris Jenkins, who may be the best corner in this draft, in the 2nd!!
Brockers and Jenkins is what I'm hoping
or maybe Coples and Jenkins if Brockers is a no show at Indy. Of course, Coples worries me with his desire to play and Jenkins worries with me with his lack of desire to not end up in jail.
agreed
Bamf could lay down the law with Jenkins much like brandon hogan last year… I would be thrilled to get a blockers/Jenkins combo
by 52isabeaston on Jan 25, 2012 10:19 AM EST via mobile reply actions
The Worst Part Of Walt's Mock Is That Right After He Has The Panthers Picking Gilmore, CB Chase Minnifield Goes Next
by PanthersRoar on Jan 25, 2012 10:53 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Along with Jenkins a few picks later.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 25, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also
If we start to blitz more, Gilmore would be great.. He is excellent at blitzing for a CB, also he is hard for WR’s to block in the run game iirc
"What up? We're three cool guys looking for other cool guys who wanna hang out in our party mansion. Nothing sexual. Dudes in good shape encouraged. If you're fat, you should be able to find humor in the little things." Again, NOTHING SEXUAL
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
you guys are like a bunch of pirahnas
by chop goes da weazel on Mar 31, 2011 12:32 PM PDT
by MikeTrain on Jan 25, 2012 11:17 AM EST via mobile reply actions
But that's all he does well...why take a CB in the 2nd round if all he can do is blitz and tackle?
He can’t cover for crap. I’d rather get a more rounded CB than take Gilmore.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Antonio Allen > Gilmore
For us in the 2nd. Allen crushes people, something we are clearly lacking in the secondary. Kiper seems to be high on him as are all the people watching the senior bowl.
Gilmore, imo, will be moved to free safety b/c the lack of cover skills. He’s like Sherrod Martin 2.0. Why would we add another FS when we need a SS that hits. If we can’t have Barron, take Allen in round 2. Make the receivers regret coming over the middle!!!!!
I'm sorry
Make the receivers regret coming over the middle!!!!!
^This is no longer allowed in the NFL
Senio Kelemete has been impressing scouts during the Senior Bowl practices:
Senio Kelemete (G/Washington) has been incredibly athletic on the field and has stopped several top-rated pass rushers — including Jack Crawford of Penn State — dead in their tracks. In the full scrimmage Kelemete annihilated Vinny Curry on one play.
He’s projected to go in the third round.
"Hope for the best plan for the worst"
"They laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at them because they're all the same"
I'm not for Brockers, but what really irks me, is the fact that Walter has us passing on Minnifield and Jenkins to pick up Gilmore.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 25, 2012 4:03 PM EST reply actions
That bothers me too, and I'm a USC homer.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
LOL
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 25, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
We Will Draft Coples if Available
Me personally I don’t think Coples plays hard all the time but he is the most talented. But something tell me he will get drafted by the Jags. Everyone is a fan of Brockers but can anyone tell me a DL from LSU that has been worth anything (maybe Spears from Cowboys) they are all overrated individually because they are surrounded by good talent. Just look at LSU Dline all of them probably All Americans next year. But if we could get Coples to play hard I would be satisfied and Minnifield in the second and best LB available in the 4th. But I pray that someone wants our 1st and we can trade pray
by letsmakethishappen on Jan 25, 2012 5:25 PM EST reply actions
This is how I feel.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 25, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
The problem with Coples though is the whole "if we could get him to play hard"...
We shouldn’t take a guy #8 or #9 overall that we have to hope he wants to play hard.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I'm not too bothered about Coples' work ethic.
The big worry for me is that he lacks elite burst.
For a pass rusher that’s the one thing they can’t lack in the NFL – especially if you’re drafting them #8/9 overall.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Marty might feel like the DT's by now
In various mocks, I have seen the Panthers projected to use their 1 pick on five different DT’s, including Coples as a DT. I do not think the DT’s stack up to Dre K; if he’s not available, I could see us trading back and recouping a 3 or possibly even a 2.
I like Gilmore’s size, but we could still have Dennard or Jenkins in the first round, and in 2nd/3rd use our bonus from the trade to pick up Brian Quick and Josh Chapman. Quick is Mushin size with good hands and deceptive speed (despite the 4.63 time). The surgery should drop Chapman down to this level; I am really impressed with someone who could play at his level for 8 games with an ACL tear. I would gamble on his being ready for the season.
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