What to do with Armanti?
by kasayfan4 on Jan 24, 2012 1:26 AM EST
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If there is one guy that the fanbase either loves or hates, It's Armanti Edwards, the player Marty made the infamous trade with the Patriots giving up what would've been the 33rd pick in the draft. Putting the trade aside, there is nothing really to hate on Armanti, he's not at fault for the trade and he hasn't done anything to cost the Panthers a regular season game. But now with a system that only uses three wide outs in a play, there isn't much the Wideout from App is doing. After the jump I will go into what we should do with this multidimensional athlete.
1. Continue to groom him as a wideout, eventually Steve Smith is going to retire, and we are going to need a fast, agile player in the slot to replace him, well if Armanti continues to improve as he did this offseason, we could possibly see him transition to a player that fits that role.
2. Keep him solely for his punt returning, alright I know I am going to catch a lot of flack for this, but he did a good job returning punts this season, he didn't muff one, and when given the opportunity he was able to pull off a nice return which was then unfortunately called back by a holding call.
3. Move him back to Quarterback, we have the greatest QB in FCS history on our roster, who happens to have the type of skills to fit our deep passing and read option offense, he has a strong arm, is faster and more agile then Cam but lacks his stature, so make him Cam's backup, Armanti, like Cam, also has a decent resume of winning important games and not choking.
4. Turn him into a safety......eh?.......Can he really be worse then Sherrod?
5. Use him in special option packages, you have to admit, when an opposing defense sees Cam, Armanti, Deangelo, Jonathan, Steve, and Olsen all out on the field, they won't have any idea who the ball is going to.
6. All of the above, (minus safety)
To cut Armanti would gain us nothing, there really isn't someone better to fill the roster spot, and his versatility can be helpful, he can be a punt returner, wide receiver and a QB, why cut a guy who can do all that? It won't get the 33rd pick back.
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give him training camp to prove he deserves a roster spot
if not, cut him…
"The way y'all are lollygaggin around here with them picks and them shovels, you'd think it was 120 degrees...can't be more than 114."
by SouthernPanther on Jan 24, 2012 1:32 AM EST reply actions
He'll keep his roster spot I'm sure...
I doubt he makes the field in any sort of meaningful capacity though.
poor manti
we should keep him in at WR, hopefully he will just get better. Possibly look into cutting DA and let manti be our second or third QB with pickles. We have to get him off punt returns, it’s not pretty. cutting DA will save a little money, and is DA really that much better than pickles or manti?
5 and 2
Although I feel Pillares (maybe) will fill Smitty’s role but still continue to work with Armanti. I would love to see AE get a WR reverse and chunk it down the field to Smitty for a TD
by rscott94 on Jan 24, 2012 2:00 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I don't either love, nor hate him
However, this is past the ‘put up, or shut up’ time for him as a player. I went through the dog and pony show of ‘he just needs a chance’ for years with Dwayne Jarrett before we realized he just wasn’t very good, and I think we’re probably reaching the same stage.
He’s given the benefit of the doubt because of his background and connection with the state, but the fact is he’s not picking up receiver as Hines Ward (over 600 yards his second season) or Antwaan Randle El, both of whom were converted QBs.
While I agree he’d probably be better used as a QB, that’s not his role in the NFL anymore as two years of his development have been devoted to playing the WR position. He’ll either pick it up, or not… as someone who has no ties to ASU or AE as a player all I can do is treat him like any 3rd round pick who hasn’t done anything of note in two years- wait to see if he can contribute anything, but right now it’s not looking good.
by James Dator on Jan 24, 2012 7:31 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
This is what I fear...
While I agree he’d probably be better used as a QB, that’s not his role in the NFL anymore as two years of his development have been devoted to playing the WR position.
While you don’t just forget how to play QB when you’ve been doing it your whole life, he has little to no training doing it in an NFL environment. It would take quite awhile to adjust him back to being a fulltime QB. At this point, that ship may have sailed. Had Cam always been around, we could have groomed him for the backup role from the start, but at this point two more years of grooming probably isn’t in the cards regardless of the fit.
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Just where exactly is he going to play QB full time?
Arena Football maybe? That ship really has sailed. It sailed the moment we drafted him to transition him into a WR. He wasn’t drafted in the 3rd round to be a back up QB. We drafted him to be the next Hines Ward or Randle El. I don’t know if you just want to “salvage” something from this situation or what, but you gotta admit if next year he puts up squat, then that’s that.
I'm not getting into this discussion with you again.
You know how I feel about his QB ability, he could easily be a backup QB in our offense.
As to this…
but you gotta admit if next year he puts up squat, then that’s that.
… All else equal, if the ST coverage improves and he still doesn’t get some good returns, then okay, let him go. At this point, I wish we never drafted him, especially not so highly. The only person I have to blame for that is Hurney.
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So let me ask you this...
The guy can’t get on the field as a WR. Why? Still learning the position, right? And you want to give him additional backup QB duties? So if he can’t learn the WR position we’re going to make things even harder on him by making him learn the playbook as a QB on top of everything else?
Either we were going to develop him as a PR/WR or we were going to make him a 3rd string QB. What you are proposing is like switching your major your senior year. Yeah sure, it can be done. But it’s a complete waste of the efforts from the last few years.
Sure, I’ll even give you that AE has the ability to be the backup QB. What he doesn’t have is the time to learn how to be a WR and be the 3rd string QB at time. And I can say this with confidence because he hasn’t been able to learn the WR position and he’s working on that full-time almost.
he hasn't been able to learn the WR position
where exactly did you get that information? Because he hasn’t been on the field during the regular season as a WR yet? They probably should have given up on Wes Welker as well then.
Malcolm Flloyd had 49 receiving yards in his first two seasons. In his second season he was demoted to the practice squad.
Miles Austin had 76 yards in the first 25 games of his career.
Steve Johnson had 112 yards in his first two seasons.
I don’t understand how most of the members of this board can agree/say/understand the belief that WR’s usually take 3 years to develop in the NFL and then toss out Armanti who is transitioning from QB to WR…SMH
"One step at a time"
It's all in the name..
Since it’s Edwards, typical logic doesn’t apply. If a normal college receiver takes 3 years to develop in the NFL, Edwards should have converted from QB to receiver and have 3 pro bowl appearances by now. C’mon, hate on Edwards, all the cool kids do it ;).
In reality, all he needs is time.
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ya know...
I don’t mind a fiery debate. I’m sure people can remember bigdavis and I going at it very heatedly last year…
But it does irk me a little bit when people clearly disregard my comments and then presume to put words in my mouth at my expense.
Do you have a point?
I was replying to Mcdonaldwr in regards to…
I don’t understand how most of the members of this board can agree/say/understand the belief that WR’s usually take 3 years to develop in the NFL and then toss out Armanti who is transitioning from QB to WR…SMH
This is a statement that refers to everyone, and one that I’ve noticed myself, hence my reply agreeing with him. While his comment may have been in reply to you, mine was not. If you feel you’re one of those that hold Edwards to a different standard than the average wide receiver, that’s you, but I’m referring to wide spread opinion, not a single comment or post.
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Not at all..
Apologies if it came across that way, I didn’t have any particular user in mind. I actually agree with your comment that, currently, is directly below this one. If his stat line looks the same at the end of next season, it’ll be time to move on.
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Perhaps that is a bit harsh
I’ll give you that the statement you meant to quote(?) is 3 parts on-field lack of production and 2 parts personal doubt that he’ll transition into a decent WR.
But we’ve been down this road. We gave seemingly infinite amounts of rope to Drew Carter, Keary Colbert, Dwayne Jarret, Ryne Robinson, etc, etc…
All I’m saying is that it’s time for Armanti to put up or shut up. That’s it. I don’t think he needs to be cut immediately, I don’t think he is trash/garbage/whatever metaphor is in flavor. But his punt returns have been awful, and we have 4 WRs who are in line before him, 5 if you count Pilares. Put all that together, and the chances of Edwards scratching into the lineup as a real difference maker are slim.
All I’m saying is that it’s time for Armanti to put up or shut up. That’s it. I don’t think he needs to be cut immediately
I can agree with this. He was a high draft pick and is playing for a coaching staff that has no loyalties to him so he definitely has more expected of him. I don’t believe he is the next Devin Hester; however, I also do not believe that those punt statistics tell the whole story. We’ll see what happens and what they do in the draft and free agency could be very telling.
"One step at a time"
Clearly if he is to be the backup QB, you make him do that full time in practice
My opinion, converting him to a WR is a waste of his abilities. Not saying he couldn’t do it, just saying it’s a waste of the talent of one of the greatest FCS quarterbacks of all time.
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you see...
that’s exactly where I take issue with this whole argument because that isn’t happening. By all reports, Clausen is doing the 3rd string QB work.
I find that hard to believe
I don’t think Clausen is capable of even managing a toned down version of this offense. Not if we want to keep the deep ball in play.
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alot of debating over a guy who is going to be making like 660,000 this season
"If I have to find Jesus does that mean he is hiding ?" THE SOESBEAST " death solves all problems, no man no problem" Joseph Dzhugashvili
by allthatremainsstillowns on Jan 25, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
The only reason Armanti is the 3rd QB is to save a roster spot
It’s the emergency 3rd QB. If we had last year’s rules, I would all but guarantee that Clausen would be declared the 3rd QB (because they couldn’t play anyway) and we would have one less special teamer. And in that case, if Armanti were declared the 3rd QB, he wouldn’t have even been able to play.
If you get zero playing time
& coaching from someone who hasn’t developed any WR’s…does it really count as a season? I’m considering next season Armanti’s second season in the NFL
"One step at a time"
I go by actuality, not speculation
He’s had two full seasons in the NFL at this point. I’d rather not play a guessing game on what was/wasn’t done with him during Fox’s last season
Good job returning punts?
You should catch flack. 176 total yards (26th) and 5.5 yard average (25th) isn’t good; it’s well below average. True that he didn’t muff one, but if that’s the goal, just put any sure-handed receiver or tight end in the spot and fair catch every time.
Those numbers don't tell the whole tale
He had numerous returns either totally called back by penalty, or that he caught and was pummeled immediately for 0 yards.
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You should create a script that auto-replies that Tater.
It would save you a lot of headache. :-)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
It really would.
I need a secretary.
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Well I'm already your agent, so I'm out.
Perhaps Joan Holloway would be interested?
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Can't explain away
32 punt return attempts.
He rarely called for fair catches
Instead he caught punts with defenders bearing down and was tackled before he could move. If he called for fair catches in those situations, they wouldn’t have counted against his average. Instead, he caught them straight up and was hit so soon that even the best returner could not have gained positive yards out of it.
Bingo.
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This WAS AE's rookie season.
Fox was determined not to use or develop any rookies his last season as head coach in Charlotte. AE was a casualty of that policy.
He also had NO OFF-SEASON to develop this year. Hopefully, he and the entire team will benefit from time with teammates during OTA’s to develop and improve. This was a very entertaining season. It should be a heck of a lot of fun to watch developments during the off season.
He has tremendous work ethic.
I think the same intangibles that allowed him to dominate in college will help him improve in whatever role he is tasked with.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
by ERL on Jan 24, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think we see how much he improves in training camp/preseason
If he is still under performing cut him. I think there are plenty of Arena football teams in need of another cut NFL receiver.
Integrity first. Service before self. Excellence in all you do. -- USAF Core Values
by Disciple of Carolina on Jan 24, 2012 11:08 AM EST reply actions
hell
he could be the Cam Newton of Arena football
True
but he may not remember how to throw the ball
Integrity first. Service before self. Excellence in all you do. -- USAF Core Values
by Disciple of Carolina on Jan 24, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe it's just me, but I think the best thing we can do with Armanti is stop talking about him.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
by BW Smith on Jan 24, 2012 11:09 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yep
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 24, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
All for it.
But I won’t sit idly by when people trash him.
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Totally understood.
I know you’re not openly bringing him up all the time.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I'm with ya Tater
And I have no ties to AE or App State, so you’ll have my non-homer support in these debates.
People get bored..
And need something, or some one, to hate on… Given the circumstances, Edwards is simply an easy target. It’s easy to disregard the circumstances around Edwards and just yell bust, so that’s what most do.
I’ve always maintained belief that Edwards and Pilares should share a leash. If we’re giving up on A.E., we’ve gotta give up on Pilares as well, until one of them shows something, because they’re currently on equal ground.
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If we’re giving up on A.E., we’ve gotta give up on Pilares as well, until one of them shows something, because they’re currently on equal ground.
Except Pilares has had one less year in the league and a return TD to his name.
It is what it is.
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I refuse to consider Edwards rookie season anything even close to resembling that of a year spent learning and honing his (new) craft. Fox probably set him back more steps than he took forward. It’s entirely opinion based but I consider this most recent year his true rookie season.
As is, neither has shown enough as a receiver to warrant being declared the better of the two. This debate is still premature, better suited for the next off season.
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This dude gets way too much special treatment.
I loved this guy in college and wished the best for him with the panthers. However, It just seems to be one excuse after another when it comes to his production on the field. After all the hype last offseason, he didn’t record a reception all season. I say give him one more complete offseason to see if he can play and cut him if not.
I see your point.
But in the same breath, its not as if he’s been in there failing like Legedu. He hasn’t played WR. The only thing we have to evaluate him on as a pro are his punt returns.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
And his 100% completion percentage
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and he went from dropping all of them to getting next to nothing on them its looking up
"If I have to find Jesus does that mean he is hiding ?" THE SOESBEAST " death solves all problems, no man no problem" Joseph Dzhugashvili
by allthatremainsstillowns on Jan 25, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
Let's try a simple test...
Google “Armanti Edwards highlights” and see if you can find anything from the NFL.
I’ll be waiting.
I think you continue to develop him as a WR, seeing as that's the path he has already on.
However, next year is his final opportunity before Hivera have/has to cut ties.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 24, 2012 4:23 PM EST reply actions
Totally.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 24, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Sure... let's cut him before we know if he can make it or not...
That sounds like a GREAT idea.
This was never going to be an easy path, and the results thus far have been extremely underwhelming. Ya know, maybe PRs just aren’t his thing, he wouldn’t be the first person. (Anyone else remember how many return men we went through from 08 to 10?)
Personally, I don’t think we’ll see any improvement. We’ve got a pretty loaded field at WR as is and it’s not going to be any easier for him to get on the field next year than it was this year. But I’m not opposed to riding this out… Though I’ll be very surprised if Pilares doesn’t replace him on PRs…
Wow, this newb is really hard up in the hate department.
If he were a cowboy gm Miles Austin would have been out of the league before he really got a chance. NYG: Victor Cruz would never have made it to his breakout season after his 1st scrub season. And HOU: Arian Foster never would’ve been allowed on the field since he’d not yet had the chance to really play and show what he could do consistently. They’d only seen him in practice and training camp.
Victor Cruz had a game with 3 (!!!) preseason TD catches.
Armanti has never done anything close to that at the NFL level.
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Jan 26, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
As said above, Cam missed him on at least one sure TD in the preseason
But i get your point.
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Does anybody else look at...
…this past season as AE’s real rookie season? 2010 seemed to be a waste of time for everyone involved (save for the large sum of cash AE got while chilling on the bench). Fox invested nothing into him, just stuffed him in a corner hoping to forget he was there. AE had to seek his own training during this past locked-out offseason (and I thought he aimed high going after Moose and working with him). I just wonder if Rivera and Co. looked at the situation as 2011 being his “rookie year.”
I do agree with folks, though, that this coming offseason and TC carry a lot of weight for him.
Just when I thought you couldn't be any dumber, you go and do something like this... AND TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF!
by Dman304 on Jan 24, 2012 6:52 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely..
His rookie year was a complete waste.
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by D-Ranged1 on Jan 24, 2012 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yep, that rookie season might as well have not existed
The only purpose it served was getting him in NFL shape. There is a big curve going from a QB, even a mobile QB, to a full time WR. It is a lot more running, and takes a lot of conditioning.
I think from a conditioning standpoint, he now fits the bill. Heck, I think he did pretty darn well as a receiver in preseason. He needs to work on making the catch with defenders hanging on his back, but otherwise he was miles ahead of where he was in his rookie season.
I know he’ll work as hard as possible to improve, I hope we see some results.
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by Tater596 on Jan 25, 2012 8:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Indeed..
At least twice as many receptions as any other WR and tied for the most yards.
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and legs is probably not coming back so..............
"If I have to find Jesus does that mean he is hiding ?" THE SOESBEAST " death solves all problems, no man no problem" Joseph Dzhugashvili
by allthatremainsstillowns on Jan 25, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
He was consistently getting open in the pre season
Although he had problems catching and holding onto the ball. He have confidence that he’ll continue to work on it. Not sure if anyone noticed but he cut his dreads, i’m thinking he did it to play WR to the best of his abilities
I say keep him and let him grow, and also have him as the #3 QB but I really wouldn’t mind if someone else took over punt returns. Say all you want about our blocking on punt returns but you can’t say he wasn’t bad at it. Too much dancing around when he should be making one move and then zipping through the hole
CAM....CAAAAAAAAM
Interesting how Armanti & Rivera highlighted this
as a problem just before our Bye week and then after that he started making one move and going yet you failed to include that in your post. Be fair in your criticism’s yo.
"One step at a time"
If he made a change than I didn't notice it and it obviously didn't get better
Still wanna keep the guy, just not as a PR
CAM....CAAAAAAAAM
by CamNewtonSBMVP on Jan 25, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
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