A Draft Pick, A Trade, And The High Cost Of Saving Money
I was sitting in front of my computer, scanning through some comments on a recent post here on CSR, when it finally hit me. There is someone in this draft that I've been overlooking, and for obvious reasons. However, I've begun to reconsider this position because of the far-reaching benefits that would result if the Panthers were bold enough to pick him. This draft selection would instantly produce vehement passion throughout our loyal fan base because of the certain consequence that would follow: The trade of a beloved player. I will admit that I have my own reservations about these moves, but what could be gained in return, may very well be worth the painful price. These moves and what they would mean for the Panthers after the jump.
This draft pick would apply whether we picked him at 8/9 or in a trade back scenario. His name is Trent Richardson. Have you heard of him? Of course you have. He is widely viewed as the best RB in the draft because of his rare mixture of size, speed, and strength. So what? Every fan with any knowledge of the Panthers knows that we have two studs at the RB position already, which gives us little reason to draft a RB, no matter how good he may project to be. But let me explain my admittedly hesitant position.
Most of us realize that Deangelo, the elder statesman in Double Trouble, has, for all intents and purposes, very little trade value. That leads us to the younger, more popular Jonathan Stewart. He, in fact, does have great trade value, even in this day and age when more RB gems can be mined in later rounds than most any other position. RBs have seemingly become an afterthought in today's ever-evolving passing attacks. While it's true that a RB's value has dipped to an all-time low, that doesn't mean that the position will just fade into obscurity. One dynamic RB can be a game-changer. Two dynamic RB's can re-invent the value of the position with a little ingenuity and creativity. We had a taste of this with our own innovative offensive coordinator, "Chud", and I only see this expanding over the next season or two(provided he stays at least another year).
The bottom line is this: I am suggesting that we pick Trent Richardson and then trade Jonathan Stewart for a 1st or 2nd round pick. Let's take a look at what this would provide us(in no particular order).
1. It's no guarantee, but I believe there would be little, to no drop off at the position if the Panthers did, indeed, make this move. In fact, Richardson is younger and has the ability to become an even more viable option than Jonathan Stewart.
2. We all know that a large sum of money will be required to re-sign Jonathan Stewart. Simply put, drafting Richardson would allow us to save precious cap space, a commodity in and of itself.
3. We would add an extra pick to our draft-day arsenal, which would give the Panthers even more cards to play with.
The obvious pink elephant in the room is the popularity of Jonathan Stewart, and the backlash that would sweep across the fan base after learning that he had been traded. Of course, the writing would have already been on the wall if we did, indeed, draft Trent Richardson. Even though it wouldn't be a popular move among the fan base, it would certainly be prudent. What I'm basically asking is this: Is your love for Stewart worth more than the combined benefit of having a younger, cheaper option in Richardson and the extra early round pick? To be frank, I'm not even sure I've even convinced myself at this point, but I'm very curious what my fellow Panther fans think of such a move. Just let me know what you think in the poll and the comment thread below.
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I would only even consider this if we are getting a 1st rounder for J Stew
Forget the fan base, D Will would be extremely pissed about this idea.
by Atlantapanther on Jan 19, 2012 10:24 PM EST reply actions
don't like it
Why would any team trade for J-Stew if he’s in the last year of his contract? Just wait it out and let the Panthers have 3 1st rd RBs on the roster with no legit #2 CB. Teams could make low ball offers cuz they know they would need Stewart less than we would need to get rid of him. And if we turn down trade offers, then we get stuck with all 3 RBs. And Richardson will probably cost more than Stewart, and Stewart isn’t exactly old. He’s 25 with only 725 carries. He could play another 6 or 7 years, and you can’t guarantee Richardson would be willing to share the rock, or get 4.8 yards a carry. If we do that, then in a couple years when D-Will’s over 30, we’d only have one RB under 30, and Stew would be making the Pro Bowl annually for another team.
You made my point with your comments about how young...
and good Stewart is. I believe a team would be willing to give up at least a 2nd rounder for Stewart. Then again, maybe I’m delusional about how much trade value Stewart has in the open market.
by Derek Leazer on Jan 19, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
FAs
I wonder what FAs are gonna be out there. We obviously disagree about making the trade, so I’m not gonna engage in this debate. However, word on the street is Arian Foster, Ray Rice and Matt Forte want more money, and each waThe Ravens got a lot of players who make a lot of money on that defense. The smart thing would be to keep Ray Rice, but you never know. And Forte just got hurt. So we’ll see. If I was in need of a RB, I’d trade for D-Will and sign Goodson after he gets cut to be the back-up. D-Will, IMO, would come at a cheaper price than Stew in a trade, but then he’d have to re-work his contract. Marshawn Lynch is also supposedly gonna be a FA, and also Peyton Hillis. So we gotta see who signs where, and how much money they get paid. That may determine how much we offer Stew. But if a team really wanted a RB, it would make more sense for that team to trade up to get Richardson than trade for one of our RBs.
by usana_gaines on Jan 20, 2012 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't mind trading Stewart for a 2nd
and a 4th rounder. Paying 2 rb’s top 5-10 money on the same roster is silly. Rb’s can be had any round. I wouldn’t use another 1st rounder on a rb. With the bengals and jets in need of a rb, trade back if a team is willing to make a solid offer along trade Stewart for more picks.
by adam carter on Jan 19, 2012 11:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Paying 2 rb’s top 5-10 money on the same roster is silly. Rb’s can be had any round.
I’m not in favor of drafting a RB. But you can’t find a RB like 34 or 28 in “any round.” Not many guys can average 5 yards per carry over a career.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
There are undrafted free agents who have blossomed at every position.
I’m saying ‘in general’ you don’t find backs like we have growing on trees.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
Well obviously.
The point is that it’s much easier to get a good RB in the later rounds than it is more most other positions
CAM....CAAAAAAAAM
by CamNewtonSBMVP on Jan 20, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
you could also argue that D Will and Stew benefit from our O line and scheme
John Fox has always been good at running the football. We’ve always had a decent O line. Chud’s creativity lights up our running game. Not to take away credit from D Will and J Stew but I think a lot of other running backs would produce almost the same over 5 ypc in our system.
by Atlantapanther on Jan 20, 2012 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
These sort of arguments drive me out of my mind.
For example, Brockers is mentioned as a good first round draft pick for us and Glenn Dorsey is mentioned as a counter.
I hear people talk about drafting a WR in the first round and people counter with Colston and Victor Cruz.
I’m sorry, but these guys are the anomalies, not the norm, making this kind of argument nothing more than weak.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 21, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
I hate it too
You can find first round busts and late round gems for every position. I doubt anyone would ever say “You shouldn’t try to draft a franchise QB in the first round because you might get a Ryan Leaf. You can find good QBs like Tom Brady in the later rounds.” So why do we hear it for every other position?
Why does Brockers have to be Glenn Dorsey? Why can’t he be Haloti Ngata or BJ Raji?
And we’re more likely to get a Raymar Johnson or Paul Hubbard than we are to get a Victor Cruz or Marques Colston in the later rounds at WR.
Stewie needs to stay put
With the way the offense is playing and how the rushing yards were nicely divided between him, Cam and Williams, Stewart will have more mileage than most of his peers. That being said he will not wear down as easily. Plus, there are too many needs to address without having to trade a RB to get a RB.
Integrity first. Service before self. Excellence in all you do. -- USAF Core Values
by Disciple of Carolina on Jan 19, 2012 11:02 PM EST reply actions
My point is that Richardson could provide....
the same production as Stewart, but for less money. In other words, is Stewart > or < than Richardson + cap space + another early round pick.
by Derek Leazer on Jan 19, 2012 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
The key point in your statement is "could" provide.
This debate, while entertaining, is too early in the process to effectively evaluate whether Richardson would be as good as JStew or DWills. I think of Mark Ingram and what a massive blunder the Saints made when giving up so much for a player that lacks quickness.
Welcome to the Cam Cave
Mark Ingram
A softer, slower, more sensitive Emmitt Smith.
by usana_gaines on Jan 20, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
haha...Awesome comparison!
Welcome to the Cam Cave
it's not "another early pick" we are losing a pick
basically losing our first round and picking up a 2nd round just to swap Stew for Richardson. I wouldnt even trade J-Stew for Richardson straight up, let alone costing us a 1st
I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was
Its an interesting thought
just not a realistic one. Perhaps I am wrong.
Integrity first. Service before self. Excellence in all you do. -- USAF Core Values
by Disciple of Carolina on Jan 19, 2012 11:20 PM EST reply actions
I don't think this will happen either.
I was wanting to get a feel for how CSR nation felt about such a move, even if it is unrealistic.
by Derek Leazer on Jan 19, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly
could you really imagine a Panther team without Stewart? He is quite possibly the strongest and capable back (no disrespect to D-Will of course) in our stable. Plus, he has proven himself time and again. Who else can stiff arm a defender like Stewie can?
Integrity first. Service before self. Excellence in all you do. -- USAF Core Values
by Disciple of Carolina on Jan 20, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
I agree it’s going to be really hard to put that much money into the RB position, which is why i was sad when d will got signed. Because D will wanted to stay and they like sharing the carries so much they should have signed similar deals around the same time. Instead D will was given a deal and we’re left with a beat RB in the last year of his deal.
Here's my problem with that
Of course Stew is a fan favorite, and that alone makes it all the more likely he’ll stay put.
Emotions aside, I still am not a fan. I think it’s unlikely we’d get a first rounder for him. So let’s assume we get an early second round pick for him. Giving up Stew to pick up Richardson would pretty much a lateral move. So essentially, we’d be forfeiting our first round pick for an extra second rounder and cap space.
So cutting out the middleman, how many of us would want to give up the 8th/9th pick for the 36th pick and $5 million of cap space?
Don't forget the Panthers would be getting a player...
that is 3 years younger than Stewart. Doesn’t that count for something? Also, your mention of the 5 million cap space fails to specifically point out the cumulative cap space that is realized over the entire life of a 4-5 year contract. Doesn’t that count for something, too? Again, as replied above and in my post, I don’t think this will happen and I’m struggling to convince myself as well. I thought it might make a nice conversation piece.
Another point is this: what if we pick someone like Kirkpatrick or Brockers and they end up being a bust, whereas Richardson, the safer pick, excels at the next level. All of a sudden, drafting Richardson could have been the right move after all. This is all speculation and conjecture anyway, and frankly, I enjoy it. Thanks for reading and giving me your input. Your points are valid and respected.
by Derek Leazer on Jan 20, 2012 1:06 AM EST up reply actions
The age does count for something
But Stew is fresh enough to where his age won’t be a concern for a while. Now I may be wrong with this, but what from what I’ve heard the cap will likely jump up quite a bit after the new TV deals take effect. If that’s true, we won’t be so desperately looking for cap relief like we are right now.
Now I know Richardson is the safer pick. But there’s no guarantee that he won’t struggle like Mark Ingram has. Stew is proven, Richardson is not.
Your proposition does have its benefits. I just think adding a stud first rounder at a position of need will be more beneficial than getting younger and saving money.
And thanks for writing this. Nice to talk about the draft without talking about Kirkpatrick or Brockers.
3 years younger is not worth swaping our 1st for a 2nd
and how is RB a safer pick? RBs have a high bust risk. lets look at some recent 1st round RBs. Ingram, only in his rookie year, but he didnt impress. CJ Spiller, can’t handle the work load and has become a 3rd down back. Ryan Mathews, average at best + fumblina. Javid Best, same as Spiller. Knowshon Moreno, Even Fox cant get good production out of this guy. Donal Brown, HA! Beanie Wells, struggled in 1st 2 years and now is about average.
Those are all of the 1st round RBs in the last 3 years and i woudnt trade J-Stew for any of them.
also on a side note. as mentioned, J-Stew and D-Will have great chemistry and are good friends. Richardson is from Alabama and it might not mix well with SuperCam
I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was
Unnecessary
1. 1st round RB’s are overrated. How many did you see in the playoffs now? None. A good back can be found in later rounds.
2. Chemistry. DWill and JStew work well and share load together. Having both has kept both fresh and increased their longevity. Who’s to say Richardson would even want to be in a timeshare for the long haul?
3. Rebuild the defense. Watch the Atlanta and New Orleans games. Our offense is top 5 and perfectly fine. Leave it alone and overhaul the front 7 on defense.
by pantheredgar on Jan 20, 2012 6:12 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
A better scenario...imo
First off I do not want to get rid of Stew, but just for conversation/arguments sake I’ll throw this out there.
Trade Stew for 2nd rounder.
Draft day we are able to trade our 1st with team X beacause RG III or someone similiar is still on the board. We get there 1st and either next years 1st our another 2nd rounder this year. (Granted we’re not dropping but a couple of slots)
Still able to draft Richardson (I’ve seen mocks where he is still available mid to late teen picks)
Now have 3 2nd round picks to fill in other positions or use as trade bait as well.
I know all of this isnt likely, but I’ve seen crazier things happen on draft day. Look at ATL last year.
J-Stew is a proven NFL stud hoss
T-Rich is a proven college stud hoss… unproven in the NFL.
I’d prefer to keep the proven NFL stud hoss, please.
we wouldnt be adding a pick we would be losing one
lets say that Richardson ends up being about equal to Stewart in product. that means if we swap them we re basically just throwing away the pick. If we get a 2nd for J-Stew then that means we dropped a round for virtually no reason. I also happen to think that J-Stew is better. Richardson has a good combo of size and speed but J-Stew is about 15 punds heavier and just as fast. not to mention he is a beast pass blocker, experienced, and is a Buc Trucker.
I would never make this move in a million years. so you would rather have Richardson and a 2nd round pick and J-Stew and a 1st? makes no since, count me out
I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was
Stewart will need to be paid soon.
How much money would you pay him? Would it be a contract for the exact amount as D-Will? Or should he get paid more because he’s younger? Is the running back position so important in our offense that we need to take up that much cap space between two players? These are questions that will need to be answered in the very near future, and the answers won’t necessarily be easy ones.
by Derek Leazer on Jan 20, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
he would cost less than D-Will
he has less production and age doesnt effect money (maybe length of contract and trade value, but not money). plus he has made more money than D-Will the past few years even though he and the organization knew D-Will was the #1 back. I think part of why D-Will got such a large contract was to make up for such a small one the previous years. J-Stew will want to stay and he knows he shouldnt get as much money as D-Will. I also wouldnt be surprised if D-Will restructured to help them keep J-Stew. I think we will be able to keep both. And even if we do go with Richardson, he will demand money at some point and we would just be in the same pickle again
I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was
You actually do make an excellent point, though most folks aren't really considering all factors...
Nobody wants Stewart to go anywhere; that’s a given. The situation at hand is that he’s a UFA after next season. Would D-Will take a cut so Stewie could stay? Would Stewie stay for less than he could make elsewhere?
If I were Hurney, I’d be talking to the Bengals. “Look, we’d like to trade back, and we’ll take picks 21 and 53, plus next year’s 3rd for our 8/9 pick. Otherwise, we’re taking Richardson, and we’ll be offering Stewart or Richardson to the highest bidder. Call me back.”
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Rookies Are "Like A Box Of Chocolates, You Never Know What Your Going To Get" As "Forest Gump" Would Say
Even the #1 pick can be a bust. So don’t let the Panhers become the Cleveland Cavaliers of the NFL, remember they traded 20+ point scoring All-Star G Ron Harper, and like 2 1st round picks tp get rookie F Danny Fariy (sorry for the mispelling, but who remembers a career single digit scorer?).
by PanthersRoar on Jan 20, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
I have had the opinion since his rookie year
That J Stew is one of the five most talented backs in the NFL. Trading him for free’d cap space and Trent Richardson wouldn’t make sense to me with gaping holes on the defense.
"What do want to say to those critics now?"
"Just sit back and watch the show." -Cam Newton
i would agree
J-Stew has the best combo of size and speed. I think he is the only RB in the NFL that is over 225 and runs in the 4.4s. no to mention he is great at blocking and aggressively destroys defenders in his path
I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was
I see that the overwhelming majority is in...
the “keep Stewart” corner. I feel the same way. But, the necessity of re-signing such a dynamic RB begs the following question that we’ve all continued to discuss throughout this past season: Why did we sign D-Will to such a large contract at his age? The other question that continues to require a plausible answer is this: Can we afford to pay 2 RBs top dollar and still surround the team with the talent necessary to win it all? By the way, to think that Stewart will sign some low-ball offer is extremely hopeful. He will want to be paid like the big-time player that we all have indicated he is.
by Derek Leazer on Jan 20, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
D-Will got a big contract out of respect
he was playing for a very low salary in relation to his production. His being underpaid for 2-3 years led to a big contract as a reward. He also had a league leading year when he had 1500 rushing yards and 20 TDs. In terms of per carry statistics he is top 3 if not the best in the league. There was also the concern of losing him to a rival. The Saints were pursuing him hard and we couldnt afford to let him go to a divisional rival. J-Stew has been making more money over the last few years and will be going into a FA year were RBs are not in high demand. his production is also lower than D-Wills and he will not command near the amount of money.
D-Will is making 8 mill per season. Adrian Peterson is making almost 14 mill per season. If we can sign J-Stew for 5-6 mil per season than we would have both for the same price as AP, and I’m perfectly fine with that.
I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was
I agree with this
In my opinion, Dwill + JStew > Adrian Peterson
So if we can get the two for the price of AP, then I’m all for it.
DWill + JSTEW > Adrain Peterson
all day. both of them have a higher YPC than him. they keep each other fresh, they make each other last longer, and if one goes down we have the other. AP isnt going to last long in the NFL and if he goes down the Vikings have to go to Gerhart
I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was
Gerhart ain't that bad. There a few (if any) teams with a tandem of backs like we have. Most have a stud,
and a good situational / rest option, if that. It really comes down to how whether and how much home town discount Stewie would consider, in order for us to keep our luxurious Yacht of a backfield.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
More Amazing Than Stewart's 4.46-40 Was His 1.46-10 Yard Split
Go to nfldraftscout.com (www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2008_RB) to see how few players are that fast. That years Combine had RB Chris Johnson (4.24-40, 1.40-10), so you might want to click on a few more recent years to appreciate how great that 10 yard split time was (Stewart’s 1.46 time may have been may have been better than the top time for any position for the last few years).
by PanthersRoar on Jan 20, 2012 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
I think we could get a first out of the Pats if we wanted to trade Stewie
They haven’t had stability at the RB position for a while and none of their RBs can block. I think alot of people really just want to keep Stewie because he’s a great Panther. When I mean a great Panther I mean a great player, community guy and role model. I completely agree with that but we really have no need for 2 top of the line running backs and unless we want to just spit in DWill’s face after giving him that big contract by cutting him and re-signing Stewie we’re going to have to let Stew go or trade him (Which makes more sense)
Personally I think Stewie fits out system better because he’s a better reciever and blocker but what’s done is done
CAM....CAAAAAAAAM
I like this idea
We only needed two stud running backs in fox’s fun every down system any way. We are a down field passing team so i wouldn’t be to mad if they did this but it will not happen this year. Also if the pat’s had stew, they would be unstoppable so hell no because i fucking hate the pat’s.
I don't like the Pats either but I don't really see any other team with picks to trade
Except maybe the Browns
CAM....CAAAAAAAAM
by CamNewtonSBMVP on Jan 21, 2012 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
The sad thing is it's true.
I like Stewart too much to make this move.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 21, 2012 11:46 AM EST reply actions

























