Will The 2012 Draft Be The Time To Find Cam's Backup?
As the dust settles on the 2011 season I'm left wondering who was the driving force for selecting Cam Newton. I refuse to believe it was dumb luck that saw them take a physically gifted, yet mechanically raw player and turn him into more Ben Roethlisberger than Tim Tebow. There was an eye for talent when looking at the position that we hadn't seen in the past from an organization traditionally weak at selecting QBs. Over the last decade we've seen players like Randy Fasani, Chris Weinke, Stefan LeFors, Jimmy Clausen and Tony Pike all try their hand at playing, and with poor results.
Now we are entering the 2012 season, and while the rest of the playoffs get mopped up one of the challenges the Carolina Panthers will need to face is finding a long term backup for Cam Newton, which could be harder than finding Cam himself. I say this because the goal of any team is to find system stability from their backup QB. You want a skill-set that somewhat resembles your starting QB in order to switch players as needed, but not experience a major drop-off in production. With Carolina running a tactile, option heavy, deep ball system it will require them to find someone with unique Cam-like abilities, but also not overspend to get him. Getting these players is mostly luck; the Green Bay Packers stumbled upon Matt Flynn, the Patriots invested a high pick in Ryan Mallet and this season the Texans leaned heavily on T.J. Yates when the chips were down.
It so happens there's a player trending to be a 5th or 6th round selection this draft who I think could be a quality backup for Cam Newton, and a player with similar abilities who could really support the QB position and give the Panthers some system stability should they need another QB to step in. We'll look at this prospect...
After the jump
If you were to look at Cam Newton and Russell Wilson standing next to each other you probably would never peg them to be similar football players. If you look past Wilson's diminutive stature (5'10") you'll see a player with excellent arm strength, stellar accuracy and a similar ability to use his athleticism to avoid the pass rush. Also close to Newton's ability is his knack for learning quickly, as we saw in Wilson's transition from NC State to Wisconsin and seamlessly picking up a new offense.
via l.yimg.com
I would wager that if the Richmond, VA native was three inches taller he'd be in rarefied air at the top of the 1st round, but at Doug Flutie's stature he's destined to fall. The one major concern for a team who drafts him is his mercurial attitude toward his future. A two sport star who is still under contract from the Colorado Rockies who drafted him in 2010, Wilson has, up to this point he's been fairly non-commital about which sport he wants to play long term, a move which was the catalyst for him leaving NC State. Currently though Wilson seems committed to playing football and finding his way onto a roster.
It behooves the Carolina Panthers to find a long term backup to sit behind Cam Newton. Neither Derek Anderson, nor Jimmy Clausen are long term options as neither have the abilities to run the same offense as Newton. While Wilson is not the perfect pro prospect, I believe he could be the perfect backup prospect to sit behind Cam and run the offense if/when he's needed. For the investment of a 5th or 6th rounder he could offer much needed peace of mind, especially when the starting QB plays as physically as Newton does.
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Russel Wilson in the 6th wouldnt be bad
by rscott94 on Jan 17, 2012 4:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
OK
I think it’s perfect. Wilson may very well be the best out there across the board. His passer rating is 25 points higher than Luck’s and is second to all-time leader RGIII. His yards per attempt is 10.68, which is second to RGIII who was at 11.34 vs. Luck’s 8.64. With 33TDs and 4INTs, Wilson holds the NCCA record for consecutive passes without and INT and the record for consecutive games with a TD pass.. I’ve tried to watch every game he’s played and I am sold. I’m not sure where this comes from:“his mercurial attitude toward his future.” We know he wanted to play both sports and now he’s concentrating on football. Calling him mercurial is a shot at all 2 sports kids and is unfair.
That said, he may not be there in the 6th rd. I have a feeling that after the combine and people see him compared to the others, he’ll move up. If QB is a priority, he should be our 3rd guy taken.
Pretty sure we already have a 5'10" - 5'11" guy on the roster who was pretty athletic and threw the football quite well
So why burn another draft pick on the same guy?
I know I’ll catch flak for this, and I expect to, but seriously… what does Russel Wilson have as a QB that Armanti Edwards did not have coming out of college?
The same arguments for why AE would not make a good backup to Cam would still apply to Wilson, and they are all centered around his stature giving him an inability to see over the line.
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I'll go ahead and do it in jest to save everyone else the time....
AE went to a D-II school, so he doesn't count.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Kenny Anderson Of The Bengals Went To A Division III School Augustana College & Wasn't Kurt Warner A Division II QB?
by PanthersRoar on Jan 17, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Tony Romo Was A Division II QB At Eastern Illinois As Well
Kurt Warner went to Northern Iowa (Division II).
by PanthersRoar on Jan 17, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Like App, Eastern Illinois is a Division 1 school
They’re just in the FCS as opposed to the FBS.
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 17, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
I think the thing that both of you are missing is the sarcasm font.
Plus, it’s an inside joke. Tater dislikes anyone saying that App St. is a D-II school.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I got the joke
And I share Tater’s sentiments. I don’t think PR caught it though.
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 17, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
FCS & The Old Division II Are The Same Thing, It Was Only Changed Around 3-4 Years ago
by PanthersRoar on Jan 17, 2012 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
FCS was the old Division 1-AA, which isn't the same thing as Division II
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
+1
D2 has always been D2. FCS is just a term they threw out there to apparently make it easier to say I-AA
So when someone calls App D2, I get pretty upset… because it just flat out isn’t.
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False
FCS and 1-AA are the same thing. Take it from someone that attended a 1-AA/FCS school. D1 is still D1, D2 is still D2.
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 17, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
And D3 sucked.
(We’re talking about Mighty Ducks movies, aren’t we?)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
by BW Smith on Jan 17, 2012 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ah come on man...
I think you’re being a little to hard on Emilio.
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y'all can kick off with me all you want
Clausen is a better qb than edwards. He’s also a former second round pick so I’d be surprised if we burn him already. Anderson and clausen may not have the ability of newton but DA knows the system… Was a pro-bowler in the system, I’m happy for now to have anderson as our back-up and jimmy as our spare. Anderson seemed to handle himself ok in pre-season and I’m not as dismissive of jimmeth as the rest of you. He’ll do as a third choice, imo sorting out our special teams with our lower picks is more important
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by LimeyPanther on Jan 17, 2012 5:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Anderson may know the system...
But damn does he make VERY dangerous throws! There were plenty of throws in pre-season that could easily been INTs if the CBs had played the ball instead of looking straight through the receiver. DA was brought in to help the others learn the system and cut the learning curve, I don’t mind if they do keep him, but there are better options out there. I actually really like Dennis Dixon after he was mentioned here, make a lot of sense.
"When you do something you love you don't have to work a single day in your life... I still haven't worked a single day in my life!" ~Carlos Santana
by Panther4Life!!! on Jan 17, 2012 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
as of right now/this year..........
DA was our back up and AE was the emergency QB. AE has skills!
by TheWhite Mamba on Jan 17, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
Clausen would be a better QB in a WCO system, but for our offense...
AE is the better option, particularly as the 3rd QB. Clausen simply does not have the speed and athleticism necessary to make the read option a viable play.
We can argue mechanics all day, neither will ever agree with the other. But you HAVE to agree that AE is a far more similar QB to Newton than Clausen ever has been or ever will be.
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the problem with that argument tater is that the read option is by no means our base offense.
admittedly idk how well ae is at down the field throws accuracy and distance wise. i would still take russell wilson over pickles or ae. his body is better suited to taking the hits than ae. i also know that for my money, he is accurate andhas the armstrength to mke all the throws. he is a leader and very smart. his height is his only downfall for me. and well, that has been overcome before.
"Don't tell me about the pain, just bring me the baby" Cam Newton
by braves&panthers4ever on Jan 17, 2012 9:10 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
But it is a part of our offense, and a mobile QB is important to us for more than just the read option
Let’s face it, a big part of our offense this season was having a mobile QB. Whether it was a designed run, an option, or just the ability to scramble and make something happen. Clausen does not have that ability. He is slow to escape or move around in the pocket, and he does not have the deep ball arm we need.
As to AE… this video is all you need to know about his arm strength, watch at the 2:50 mark. This video is for his accuracy, and this video is just plain “how the hell did he manage that?.”
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Armanti beat Michigan once, Wilson was one of the top QB's in the Big 12.
Wilson is also better built to take the pounding that Cam does. He’s also not going to be expected to transition to WR as well, backing Cam up would be his only duty.
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Jan 17, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
I can agree of course that Wilson faced stiffer competition more often
I don’t know if he could take more of a pounding… AE took some big shots this year and bounced up after each one. He doesn’t really have a history of injury. But the fact remains, he would face the same physical limitations of Armanti, and isn’t really much of an upgrade. Our draft picks would be better spent elsewhere.
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He doesn't have a history of injury
Unless it involves a lawnmower.
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 17, 2012 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
Not exactly sure, but Armanti is somewhere in the neighborhood of 5'11, 185.
Wilson is about 6’0, 200, and is built much more stockier. Armanti also hasn’t had NFL DLmen sandwiching him, which Wilson got plenty of in the ACC and Big Ten. I do agree we can find a better use for a pick than Wilson, but if he falls to our sixth round pick i’d take him, he could be flipped for a much higher pick later on if he has as much potential as i think he does.
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Jan 18, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Amen.
Precisely what I’ve been saying for most of the last week now. People need to get over this unmitigated AE hate. AE is not to blame for being taken where he was and then costing the #33 pick this past draft — that was Hurney’s call, and Hurney’s mistake. Blaming AE for it, screaming he’s a bust, and screaming more to cut him after two seasons (one of which he never got a chance on, thanks to John Fox) when he’s taking what very little special teams gave him this season (and it was very little, thanks to stupid blocks in the back and clipping calls and the like out of desperation due to blown ST coverage — Rivera called it when he didn’t blame AE for the lack of production) is just the epitome of insanity.
Gang, you can’t get back the #33 pick from last draft. Hurney screwed up on that. Quit hating on AE for being a project that Hurney went overboard in trying to get, and give the poor guy a chance to actually prove himself. The fact that Clausen was intentionally placed inactive for the season indicates to me, at least, that Rivera had more faith in AE or Naanee being able to run the offense than Pickles.
So I’ll just end with agreeing with Tater: what does Wilson have that 1) AE doesn’t have, and 2) doesn’t take up a draft pick that would be better served in trying to fill another hole in our offensive line, defense (minus DE) and special teams?
get over ytour unmitigated App State homering
Armanti Edwards is garbage. He isn’t a QB, a return specialist, or a wide receiver. He is wasted picks.
Clausen could’ve been pulled from inactive any week. Your imagination of the depth chart means nothing.
I'm not an App State fan
I have no ties to the school or to Armanti. I just think he hasn’t been given a fair shot by the fans. People have directed their frustration with Hurney for giving up to much to get him at Armanti himself. It’s not Armanti’s fault he got picked where he did and it’s not his fault Hurney traded up to get him. All cutting him does is ensure that it was a wasted pick. He improved from last year and reports were that he was very impressive in camp. There is absolutely 0 reason to cut him at this point before we truly know what we have in him.
Actually, I'm not an App State homer.
In fact, I have no vested interest in AE. I just want to see something out of the pick… which is far better than I can say for some who want to cut him after only two years (one of which might as well be nixed because of Fox) and make the pick totally worthless, just so they think they can say “we told you so”.
Le Sigh....
Catches Bullets With His Teeth?
by KissMyConverse on Jan 17, 2012 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't mind taking Kellen Moore late
I still think Jimmy Clausen can turn into a decent QB with time but the O-Line seems to not want to block for him though. I liked Tony Pike coming out of college and I never understood why he never got a chance to play
CAM....CAAAAAAAAM
Wait…the O-Line doesn’t want to block for Clausen? LOL
Pike didn’t get too much of a chance because he couldn’t throw a bowling ball through a glass door.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
A Downfall parody for the 2010 Panthers QB situation would be great.
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Yes, yes it would.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Mein Fuehrer...
Um…
We are entering the season with Matt Moore, Jimmy Clausen, and Tony Pike on the active roster.
:: Hitler shakily removes glasses ::
Everyone who believes we should have kept Jake Delhomme, leave the room now.
:: Most everyone leaves ::
MATT MOORE?!?! ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?!?! THAT BEAVER COULDNT THROW HIS WAY OUT OF A BALL PIT! AND JIMMY CLAUSEN?!! HE MAY BE OF THE MASTER RACE BUT HE HAS AS MUCH CHANCE OF HITTING A DOWNFIELD RECEIVER AS HE DOES OF NAILING THAT CHEERLEADER HE KEEPS THROWING THE BALL AT!! TONY PIKE? DON’T GET ME STARTED, THE NON-POWER WINDOWS ON MY 94 HONDA ACCORD HAVE MORE ARM STRENGTH THAN HIM!!!
:: Woman consoles sobbing girl ::
It’s okay, we still have Armanti Edwards.
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LOL
The part where the commander tries to make excuses:
“But Matt Moore had that one good game against the Vikings…and Jimmy Clausen, he went to Notre….
Hitler: I DON’T GIVE A SHIT WHICH SCHOOL HE WENT TO! I’VE SEEN BETTER QUARTERBACK PLAY FROM FIVE YEAR OLDS!
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
But sir! He played so well at the end of last season!
Hitler: IT WAS A LOST SEASON! I’M AN EXCELLENT POKER PLAYER WHEN NO MONEY IS ON THE LINE! AT LEAST IF CLAUSEN WERE HERE IN THIS BUNKER WITH US, HE’D BE THE MOST EXPERIENCED PERSON AT DUCKING AND COVERING THAT WE HAVE!
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LOL
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I'd be willing to do a collaborative effort on this one tater.
We could start it out with Hitler expecting to go to Giants Stadium to watch Delhomme start the first game of the year, until he finds out that he was released and has been replaced by Matt Moore and Jimmy Clausen.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Love it. I think I just got us started above.
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Definitely.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Kellen Moore (5-11, 190) Is Around The Same Size As Edwards, But With No Speed (4.98-40)
by PanthersRoar on Jan 17, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Kellen Moore
needs to find the weight room for sure but his decision making is great which if you have the situation at rb we do and can fall back on is big in a back up qb
by allthatremainsstillowns on Jan 17, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Reminds me of Drew Brees
CAM....CAAAAAAAAM
by CamNewtonSBMVP on Jan 19, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
maybe darron thomas in the late rounds
or another oregon duck dennis dixon in free agency who was with the steelers
I could get behind Dixon
If we are looking for a similar skill set, Dixon would be a good choice.
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I like that idea too.
Sign Dixon to be the 2nd QB, and have Armanti as the “3rd QB” and save a roster spot since AE is also a WR.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Love it.
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It makes sense.
I mean really….if we get to the 3rd QB we’re screwed anyway…might as well make it entertaining.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
by BW Smith on Jan 17, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This.
I kinda like power running football though. It’s iike a bloody violent ballet…
When it was working it was a thing of beauty to me. - Vagus
(Please note that from now on I shall only refer to Cam as "The Newt" and Rivera as "BAMF")
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by The Duke Dude on Jan 18, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
booooooooooo
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Jan 17, 2012 5:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
im sorry
I’m leaping in here and I know nothing about dennis dixon. I just would want to avoid a situation like the texans found themselves in, I.e your starter goes down and way to much pressure is placed on the rookie to get to the playoff’s – which is certainly possible for us next year. We need a veteran and DA is serviceable imo, ae less so – again strictly my opinion. The more I think about it ae is like marmight- you either love him or ya don’t, very little middle ground
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Jan 17, 2012 5:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This would be understandable if Dixon was a rookie...
Which is not the case. He’s been quite impressive with the opportunities that he’s gotten so far.
"When you do something you love you don't have to work a single day in your life... I still haven't worked a single day in my life!" ~Carlos Santana
by Panther4Life!!! on Jan 17, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
In the little action I’ve seen him in, I’ve been impressed. I think he would flourish in a read option system like we have.
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In all honesty, the Texans rookie QB has played very well for them
Yes, he’s s step down from Schaub at this point in time, but that’s to be expected from a backup QB.
We already did that on gamedays.
Armanti was active, and I don’t believe Clausen ever was.
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 17, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
I Like The Idea Of Darron Thomas As The 3rd QB, He Has Enough Size (6-3, 215), Is Fast (mid 4.5's), Has A Strong Arm, & Will Go No Higher Than The Late 6th Round
I’ve also liked the thought of signing free agent QB Dennis Dixon, though he doesn’t have a lot of game experience, and want’s a chance to start. Signing Dixon will cost twice as much as Clausen, because he has 2 more years of service, but will be a little cheaper than Anderson. Cam played all but around 10 snaps this season (taking a knee), so maybe Dixon’s playing experience would’t be a problem.
by PanthersRoar on Jan 17, 2012 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
I'll have to look up this Darron Thomas guy
He at least doesn’t have the physical limitations that AE or Wilson would face.
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i like russell wilson
and i hate tom obrien for sending him packing (costed nc state half the season). that said, thomas would be kind of cool and dixon is similar, have to agree on those, but how bout e.j. manuel as a comp pick in seventh? he lacks the arm and polish of cam, but his athleticism may be easier to harness if we want to package up than wilson. wilson is head and shoulders above, but i see a little cam mobility in e.j.
I would be delighted to have Wilson in the sixth round
"What do want to say to those critics now?"
"Just sit back and watch the show." -Cam Newton
I think we wait this draft out, and pick it up again next year.
Logan Thomas and EJ Manuel will both be entering the draft, and I wouldn’t mind throwing a compensation pick away for either.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 17, 2012 5:25 PM EST reply actions
E. J. Manuel & Logan Thomas Will Go Before The End Of The 2nd Round, Too High For A Backup QB
by PanthersRoar on Jan 17, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
It depends on how good their seasons are.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 17, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
I think we are set at backup QB
Especially if we resign DA. Any team is pretty much screwed if their stud QB goes down sooner or later. Look at all the teams left in the playoffs, all of them still have their starting QBs and I’d venture to say that is the case 99.9% of the time. Rarely, will you have a situation where a backup QB can come in and lead their team deep into the playoffs (Brady). Backups are backups for a reason. I also don’t think we need a QB similar to Cam either. Chud (or whoever is our OC next year) is competent enough to call plays to DA’s or Clausen’s strengths. Sure it would be nice to have someone with a similar skill set, but to me, that is a wasteful draft pick.
Kurt Warner and Tom Brady were both backups who started due to injury and won the Super Bowl
I think those 2 make it more than .01%, I do get your point though.
Also, to the point about Clausen and DA not being the answer...
Does the backup QB really have to be the “answer”? Backup QBs are typically plug-in players to begin with. They bounce around from team to team and are rarely with the same team for very long. To me, Clausen and DA fit this mold and we don’t need to worry about drafting another QB.
IMO, DA is a fine backup QB for our services.
It would be a luxury to have a backup that is the perfect fit for our system. My opinion is also that AE could be the guy if we really want to keep that read option in play.
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I agree, we are already set
I would cut pickles because I think DA and AE are all we need and not in that order. I would like to see Shula work with AE some more. Another qb is a luxury we simply cannot afford right now.
"Shh! Be quiet everyone. That includes me. Shh! Who’s making that noise? Oh, it’s me again…"
by Panthster on Jan 18, 2012 9:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I know we'd like someone that can replicate Cam's skillset...
However, I’m fine with Anderson. I think he’s found a niche here as Cam’s mentor and if he’s needed then he’s been a Pro Bowler in this system. Granted, we won’t be able to run the option plays, but if we’re giving up either the arm or the mobility then I’ll choose to keep the arm.
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I dont think this is something we have/need to do now. Cam isn’t exactly fragile. DA is a solid back up for now and there are always going to be guys in future drafts who are similar to Cam style. Just not as talented
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"I don't see no ceiling. I don't see no breaking point." - Cam Newton
I would love to take Darren Thomas in a later round
Ran the same offense as Cam did in college and we could have both QB’s from the 2010 National Championship
Guessing James knew what he was getting into when he posted this...
But seriously… Edwards isn’t backing up our QB now, and there are no plans to back him up in the future.
Says who?
Not to be harsh or anything, but Clausen was placed inactive for pretty much the entire season. Guess who that left as #3 QB?
AE and Naanee.
I’m willing to bet the house that Rivera would have looked to AE before Naanee in a situation where Cam and DA both had gone down.
Why do you really think that was?
I mean honestly… The only reason they went with that situation was because they could use the roster spot for someone else instead of carrying 3 QBs, since the rule changes this season allowed for the place for the former “emergency 3rd QB” to just be any other person.
Why dedicate that to a 3rd QB like Clausen when you can, in an emergency capacity, when you can save the spot and have someone else in?
Honestly?
I’d say it’s as much a matter of saving a roster spot as it was a lack of faith in Clausen to get the job done. After all, Clausen was playing not to lose the #1 spot in the preseason, and it showed — even then, there were still concerns about his being David Carr 2.0 regardless because of how safe he was playing it.
I’m just trying to view it as trying to get as much out of the AE pick as we can, rather than most people going the other extreme and being unwilling to give him a chance and just cut him (which devalues the pick all the more and makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy).
I want whatever I can get to make that pick worth something.
At this point, I think we take whatever we can get to make the pick worth it. Cutting him not only wastes the pick(s) to get him and feeds on the self-fulfilling prophecy that so many seem to want to have happen so they can say “told you so” in their misplaced hate for AE, but then wastes another pick to pick up a QB with the same drawbacks as AE, stature-wise. We don’t have picks to waste when we need to add depth at so many other positions of need.
lets be clear...
There is no AE ‘hate’. There’s a difference between thinking he isn’t very good and hate. No one on here hates AE… They just think he’s crap, dame as most people feel about clausen. And if anyone seriously thinks that if cam got injured we have DA and AE backing him and leave clausen in active is deluded
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by LimeyPanther on Jan 18, 2012 5:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I disagree.
There is plenty of AE hate. Just read some of the comments over the last few days. People calling him garbage and dirt.
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by Tater596 on Jan 18, 2012 8:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You're taking it too personally
Because quite frankly, he really has been garbage… His PR average is one of the very worst in the league, netting only 5.5 ypr. Only two teams are worse… Indy and Jacksonville.
Even on KR, he is dead last on the team by an extremely wide margin. Pilares more than doubles his average. Granted, AE has only returned 3 kicks this year, but I really can’t blame them.
Get over yourself and your undying love for AE and wake up. He is an atrocious punt returner. Will he ever make it to WR? Sure, maybe… But you judge the player by what he does on the field. Not what you think he can possibly maybe do if given the chance, support, etc, etc.
The special teams coverage has been garbage. I covered that point in my post below: most of the flashes AE had wound up being for naught because of stupid penalties committed by the coverage by clipping, blocking in the back, etc. With all that happening, plus the fact that ST was half our defense pulling double duty and the other half being the second-string ST personnel, it’s little wonder AE’s YPR is where it is for this past season.
Calling AE garbage on what he couldn’t control is just nuts. And frankly, it indicates that people think they know better than Rivera — who gave him a vote of confidence and said he wasn’t removing AE from PR duties because Rivera could see that he was being held back by the ST coverage and their penchant for penalties. Does this mean that Rivera’s judgment is suspect? Apparently he sees something a lot of people don’t.
Give AE a decent ST group worth a damn, and I’m willing to bet his YPR takes a significant jump upwards. But don’t call him atrocious when the blame is on the consistently blown coverages and constant penalties taking away what he would have otherwise been able to accomplish.
by NX75649 on Jan 18, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
on punt returns
He’ll never be devon hester even with an awesome ST unit. When will he be considered a success in your eyes? All this talk of poor special teams just undermines everyones arguement for calling dough boy rubbish, our offence last year was terrible too… Clausen isn’t gonna get another chance and I’m surprised edwards is tbh
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Jan 18, 2012 11:25 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I never made that comparison.
I don’t expect him to light the world on fire with improved ST coverage. And given that the offensive line was pretty much exactly the same this season as it was last season (save Byron Bell), that sorta renders any supposed undermining of Clausen a moot point.
I’ve already said why Clausen likely won’t get another shot here in Carolina, and it’s far more to do with the shift in offensive philosophy than anything else. If AE’s special teams coverage turns out to be better this next season, and AE still doesn’t perform, I’ll quite possibly be revising my opinion at that point. At this point, though, I’m trying to be an optimist and see the glass as half full.
by NX75649 on Jan 18, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree.
If AE’s special teams coverage turns out to be better this next season, and AE still doesn’t perform, I’ll quite possibly be revising my opinion at that point.
Ultimately, my allegiance lies with the Panthers, if AE gets better blocking and still cannot product next season. We need to find a new return man. If he still is not useful as a WR at that point, I wouldn’t be surprised to see us move on completely.
I still think he would be a fine backup to Cam, but not until he is being consistently coached as a QB. Point being, he has been receiving little coaching as a pro QB, so its not like he could step in and run the offense tomorrow. If they want to go that route, they would probably need to abandon or limit his other learning ventures.
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we dont know how good a fit ae would be cuz he hasnt played in the system
Clausen and gabbert are good examples of high calibre college qb’s who struggled to make it on the pro-level. I don’t think ae will get his shot at qb… I just hope they get a shot somewhere at some position… If ae turns out a stella performance at wr next year I’ll gladly eat any words I’ve said about ae cuz it’ll be good for the team.
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Jan 18, 2012 12:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That's all I ask.
And you’re right… AE may never get any shot at QB. But athletically, he is a better fit than Clausen.
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To be fair, the list of “athletically better fits than Clausen” isn’t a very short one…
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
but b-dud
the kids got a golden arm
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Jan 18, 2012 1:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
who the hell is b-dud?
Wasn’t he one of shredders henceman? I meant b-dub
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Jan 18, 2012 1:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
henchmen
I have shamed myself
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Jan 18, 2012 1:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I just figured it was some cockney slang shit
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
i aint no cockney :)
Dirty southerners (cocky’s that is, not you lot)
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Jan 18, 2012 3:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Most PRs will never be Devin Hester
As far as punt returns are concerned… Hester may be the GOAT.
Clausen isn’t going to get another chance here because he does not fit the offense in any shape or form. We need to either trade or cut him for the sake of his career. He will do just fine in a system valuing short passes to move the football.
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Okay, I'll bite...
If AE’s only issue is blocking, why is his KR average half of what Pilares’s? I know, limited chances and all, but it’s all we have to go on at the moment.
He's made three kick returns in his career.
That’s a ridiculously small sample size.
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 18, 2012 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
I'm fully aware.
I can also turn the argument they’ve been using around though… Clearly the coaching staff doesn’t have the faith in him to return kickoffs.
But they do punts.
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 19, 2012 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
Would you rather me say the PR unit was garbage instead?
Now we’re just splitting hairs and semantics. It’s kinda like the Clausen debate. Last year, our offense was atrociously bad. I personally thought there were more pieces missing than just a QB. Then Cam comes along and proves that it was all we really needed. Could I argue that things weren’t really Clausen’s fault and that there were a number of other things contributing to his demise? Certainly. But it doesn’t change the fact that Clausen did not perform, just like it doesn’t change the fact that AE did not perform.
How about this, I make a pledge not to respond to you and you do the same to me, when AE is the topic
We have run in this circle far too many times, I’m tired of making the same reply to you over and over and over again.
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fair enough
The point is tater, we’re not getting arsey with each other. We just have different opinions on this particular player, it doesn’t mean I don’t see where you’re coming from cuz I do, I just don’t agree with you. But fair enough we’ve exhausted this discussion and neither will agree with the other. Let’s just agree to disagree.. We’re both panther fans at the end of the day
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Jan 18, 2012 12:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was mainly talking to Ace, but I guess the same applies with you Limey
We’ve done the same square dance as well. Agree to disagree.
We are all united in the fact we want what is best for the Panthers.
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You seem to think I'm mindlessly anit-AE
It’s not that. This reminds me of my back-and-forths with bigd over Matt Moore.
I’m just telling you like it is. AE has been awful on PRs the past year. It’s just a fact. Whether you want to dismiss that because of coverage or whatever, that’s you’re prerogative. I’m not denying our coverage units need help, but it doesn’t change the facts of the matter. I’m not projecting what he will do next year or anything like that.
I’m just simply stating the indisputable facts.
But he requires good coverage to be better at PRs
It would be like saying Steve Smith was a terrible receiver last year and not accounting for the terrible QB play.
I’m not saying AE didn’t have a few opportunities where he could have broken off a larger return and missed on, but for the most part he had very few of those or had his decent returns called back due to penalties. So of course his average is going to be down when he fields punt after punt for 0 yards by getting plowed as soon as he catches the ball.
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I guess I'm deluded, then...
Clausen can’t run Chud’s offense. He doesn’t have the arm, he doesn’t have the mobility, and most importantly he doesn’t have the will to make it happen. Right now, Clausen is no different than David Carr — he’s afraid of the football field, can’t handle the pressure, and everyone knows it. That’s why teams were able to take him apart with such impunity in 2010: he was afraid and made no effort to hide the shell-shock.
People point to the preseason to claim he improved, but I didn’t see it: I saw more of the same that led us all to shaking our heads in 2010. He was still checking down at every opportunity, still throwing the ball away at cheerleaders and into the stands at the slightest hint of pressure, and still wasn’t doing a good job of moving the ball down the field because he wasn’t willing to take shots down the field, as well as didn’t demonstrate the arm strength to make the needed throws. The fact that Clausen was left inactive pretty much the entire season is, to me, pretty indicative of Rivera’s faith in Clausen’s inability to be a QB under his system. I don’t deny that he got a bum deal in 2010 — especially with how little Fox seemed to actually care (because I admit, I subscribe to the belief that Fox gave up and didn’t give a crap what happened), but Clausen’s actions as a QB in that time is what hung him out to dry. His play, his unwillingness to take responsibility for his part in the offense (apologizing to Beason?), and his unwillingness to accept coaching advice when it was offered (even if it was from a crappy QB coach)… that’s not a combination I would want to see in a quarterback.
As to AE… sorry, Limey, but there’s hate and it’s been spewing left and right since we brought up the possibility of gasp trying to salvage the pick to make it worth something. It’s not just thinking he’s crap — let’s be honest, AE was given far less of a chance than Clausen was, and people are already clamoring to cut him, never mind that Rivera has shown faith in him in spite of how god-awful our ST coverage and protection was for him.
I can’t help but view it as hate, mostly because while people gripe saying that Clausen wasn’t given a chance to prove himself (and I certainly make no bones about the fact that he was thrust into a situation he should never have been thrust into), they’re still willing to crucify AE at the drop of a hat — and he was given less a chance to be successful than Clausen was. Yet, in spite of constant blown coverage by special teams and having 3-4 guys from the opposing team in his face, AE at least showed flashes. Sadly, many of them are overshadowed by penalties on Carolina because our special teams was so dreadfully bad that they kept pulling those plays back and making them worthless.
Honestly, I’d like to see how AE does with a decent special teams group, where half the ST group isn’t pulling constant double-duty playing defense because of injuries to our core defensive players. I’d like to see him make some plays as a WR. Hell, I’d like to see him have the chance to be a bona fide #3 behind Cam and Derek. In the end, I want the pick to be worth something… and far too many people are intent on scrapping him entirely, like they think they can get the 2011 #33 draft pick back somehow.
In the end, it’s far easier for people to argue to completely waste the draft pick by cutting him, just to be able to say “I told you so” and make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think that’s a shame, and that AE ought to have a chance to prove himself.
For that matter, I think Clausen should have the chance to prove himself as well, and show that he can be a bona fide NFL quarterback. Unfortunately, I think Clausen’s ability to prove himself will only happen with another franchise because Carolina’s offensive philosophy has moved in a different direction.
by NX75649 on Jan 18, 2012 8:41 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Well said.
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i actually agree with several things you've said
Our special teams play has been god awful all over the shop but I won’t call what I’ve seen from edwards flashes of greatness. I’m not bothered by the pick and what it cost us, there’s no point it happened… Move on. BUT the kid was never drafted to be a punt returner, the coaching staff previous didn’t give him a chance at wr and this coaching staff hasn’t either, that tells me something.
As for him being a back-up qb to cam and DA, edwards hasn’t regularly thrown a ball for two years now… Agreed clausen can’t run the system the way cam does but I think if with the coaching now in place he can do a job for us. We’ll see in pre-season but jimmy’s still learning too to be fair to him.
As for the AE ‘hate’… You guys are have drank way too much money juice if you think ppl hate him… One guy was calling him dirt as far as I can remember… Which is ridiculous btw nobody is dirt. I’ve seen a lot of arguements against ae put forward properly that make sense… To dismiss them all as hate isn’t fair.
Ultimately ae and clausen could be better than we know, I don’t feel either will get a chance with us to fully showcase their potential as panthers. But that fact that neither have been given much of a look in at their actual positions by a coaching staff that see’s them week in week out for me is telling
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Jan 18, 2012 9:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I've seen you give Pilares a lot of love
But he hasn’t sniffed playing time as a WR either. Does that tell you something too?
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 18, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
Pilares is actually accomplishing things though...
He’s our best return man by far. Edwards is our worst. I’m honestly surprised that Edwards wasn’t replaced by Pilares on PR duties.
I dunno.
Given what I saw of Pilares on KR duties, he wasn’t really doing all that great, aside from a handful (if that much) of plays. Most of that, though, I can attribute to rookie mistakes. AE is in much the same boat, since Fox was being lazy in his lame duck “I don’t give a crap” status and not giving the franchise a chance to see what AE had last season — good or bad.
People seem to forget that Fox wasn’t coaching up the younger players here in Carolina, and it showed. If people want to then point at Denver to try and prove me wrong, I’ll remain unconvinced — mostly because I’m pretty sure it’s Elway and the FO calling all the shots there. That’s the only reason I can see why Fox would play Tebow, let alone actually take the time to help change the offense to try and play to Tebow’s strengths. That was something he was time and again unwilling to do here in Carolina.
But, like I said above, Rivera obviously sees something a lot of the fans aren’t — otherwise he would not specifically have said that AE wasn’t at fault for how things went because of special teams inability to provide him any semblance of decent coverage when they weren’t virtually sabotaging his better returns with senseless penalties. I’m willing to trust Rivera’s judgment.
by NX75649 on Jan 18, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That honestly doesn't show me much.
You’re comparing apples to oranges — of course Pilares’ YPR on kick returns is going to be better than Armanti’s on punt returns. Pilares has more of a field to work with, and doesn’t immediately have 3-4 defenders breathing down his neck.
At this point, I think I’m going to just stop. It’s a broken record being played over and over again — on both sides of the fence, because I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve had to repeat the same thing over and over again, only to be ignored and have the apples and oranges comparisons being made to try and justify how AE isn’t worth anything.
Okay I'm going to break this down for you nice and slowly
1: The above screenshot was provided to repudiate the following direct quote from you:
Given what I saw of Pilares on KR duties, he wasn’t really doing all that great, aside from a handful (if that much) of plays.
I guess you’re just going to ignore that and wail on about how I’m comparing apples to oranges… But wait…
2: I did not make the direct claim that Pilares’s KRs were comparable to Armanti’s PRs. I initially compared Pilares’s KRs to Armanti’s KRs, where Pilares has an average that more than doubles Armanti’s KR average.
Now, I know this is a fine point, but clearly it needs to be expanded upon. You never mentioned Armanti’s KR average at all. I’m going to assume that you ignored the fact that I even brought it up. We’ll get to why I brought it up in a minute, but just let that sink in for a minute. . .
3: If Pilares averages more than double what Armanti does on KRs, isn’t it safe to assume he will also perform better than him on PRs? Do I expect Pilares to pull off a 25 ypa average? Of course not. That’d be stupid. Do I think he can do better than 5.5 ypa? Well, it sure as hell would be hard to do worse. One flaw: Armanti hasn’t done very many KRs, so sample size is limited, but I think it’s sufficient to make this inference. (We do know what an inference is, yes?)
Edwards is dead last in PRs in the entire NFL among returners who have returned at least one kick in every game played. He is 5th from the bottom out of players with at least 10 PRs. If you want to say that none of this is on him, be my guest, but you can’t expect people to keep buying that argument.
Why even bother comparing KRs?
Armanti is not a KR, he returned only 3 kicks. The sample size if far too small to make any comparisons. I’d wager if Armanti had as many returns as Pilares, he would have the same mix of long and short returns that Pilares does and give him a much closer average.
Statistically, comparing a sample size of 23 to a sample of 3 and trying to perform analysis of that data is a fools errand. Any statistician will tell you that. So you might as well scrap any argument on that front.
We simply do not have data to compare Armanti and Pilares. I disagree with any inference you are making about Pilares PR ability based on his KR ability. They perform two separate tasks which are only comparable in the fact that the ball is delivered by a form of kicking. On every kickoff, Pilares does not have to worry about getting pummeled as soon as he catches the ball, and knows that he has some blocking set up in front of him, so simply based on the distance of the kick he can choose whether to return or not. Armanti does not have that luxury, he has fielded many punts without a fair catch for ZERO yards because he expected to have some blocking, but instead got pummeled by a untouched gunner. These zeros, unlike a fair catch, get counted against his average. So to me, to draw comparisons between the KR game and the PR game is absurd.
As to whether some of the blame falls on him, of course it does. There were a few returns which he could have legitimately busted a big one, but did not. On some of those zero yard returns, maybe a more experienced PR recognizes what is happening and calls for a fair catch. In this case though, all he hurt was his average, he did not muff the punt.
I’m just saying that the individual numbers you have put forth do not tell the whole story. Rivera seems to agree with this notion. I know I won’t change your opinion, but this is why I believe as I do.
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I think you can compare the two
Aside from the start of the play (where the ball is fielded) the two skill sets are practically identical: speed, acceleration, and vision.
Punt returning is a slightly different skillset
Kick returners get a big running start, so speed is more important than agility. Usually punt returners are working in a much smaller area, so they have to be elusive and agile to make tacklers miss before they have a full head of steam going.
I'll just throw this in there
On one of Armanti’s three returns he slipped when trying to make a cut like 10 yards up the field. That didn’t help his average.
That's what I'm getting at.
That 10 yard slip gets lost in the shuffle over say… a 20 return sample size. But in 3? It has a huge impact.
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Honestly...
I said I was going to stop, but there are a couple of things I want to point out.
KR was never part of what I was talking about — not ignored as you claim, but simply disregarded because the focus on AE has overwhelmingly been on PR duties, where he has been visible. The only reason I can think of why you felt the need to go out of your way to bring KR into the equation (other than solely to have something statwise to point to to say Armanti sucks in an area that was never a part of the equation to begin with, due to the focus o his PR duties) is beyond me.
I will further disagree that just because Pilares did as he did in KR that it would translate seamlessly into PR. Beat that horse all you like, but I don’t see where Pilares could have done any better, given all the blown coverages. You’re blaming Armanti for 3-4 other people who were routinely were out of position and left Armanti to the wolves.
Draw whatever conclusions you want, but the fact that the coaching staff specifically was giving Armanti their vote of confidence speaks loudly enough for me. If you want to second-guess the coaches and their expert opinion with your armchair inferences, be my guest.
yeah thats the truth
Its a sad day when a player you like isn’t getting the game time you think he deserves, I can sympathise with tater and the ae gang. To be fair to pilares HE has shown flashes as a good return man, I’m hoping he gets more of a shot at wr, thought he would after the touchdown in pre-season but like you say, the coaches don’t think he or ae are ready. Its only gonna get harder when gettis returns. My gut also tells me we’ll resign nanee whixh in my mind only leaves alphabet soup below pilares and ae on the depth chart :(.
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Jan 18, 2012 10:33 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
What makes you think he wasn't drafted to be a WR and PR?
In fact, wasn’t that where he was practicing from the very beginning?
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And... I don't think 75% of it is "hate"
But there is honest to god hate out there in some peoples words.
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But dont you think...
That the hate or aggravation comes more from the picks given up than anything AE has or has not done. I think if we had picked him in the 7th, nobody would be upset about him. I think this is misdirected anger. I am more upset about HOW we are trying to use him than anything.
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by Panthster on Jan 18, 2012 1:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You're right -- it is misdirected anger.
It’s not Armanti’s fault that Hurney traded the pick to get him, and it’s not Armanti’s fault that the pick ended up being the #33 overall pick, yet he gets hated for it.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Speaking as a State (and, of course, Panthers) fan...
I would soil my trousers for joy to see RW in a Cats uni. Then sell them on EBay as NFL merchandise.
I like Wilson as a backup to Cam...
Though I’m pissed (american definition) that he transferred away from NCSU.
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by boywonderncsu on Jan 17, 2012 7:11 PM EST via Android app reply actions
See Edwards, Armanti
I really don’t see the point behind drafting Wilson being that we have Armanti on our roster.
Finding a Cam replica is overrated...
How many other QB’s do you know that’s similar Cam? That’s right! No one. So no need to waste a pick on a “mobile” QB. Anderson and Clausen are perfectly fine. (And possibly overkill.) Build OL and defensive depth please. That’s what decimated us this year, not the lack of a Cam-like backup.
by pantheredgar on Jan 17, 2012 8:29 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
If we can't find a suitable plsyer w/Cam's skill set (or close to it) in the draft
Are there any veteran options? Would Donovan McNabb be a thought? Given his age I don’t think he would be more than a game manager that may have some old tricks left. Yes, I know a lot of people feel he is done and maybe so. However, this is a backup role. If not McNabb, then who? This is a slippery slope if not dealt with accordingly. The last thing Carolina needs is to draft a QB who could potentially cause a controversy. It may be a good thing to have, if addressed the right way (Pats w/Brady & Bledsoe). There are a lot of things to consider.
Perhaps, what needs to happen is to use the back up, whoever that may be, and play to their strengths. If the offense can make that kind if adjustment, it would throw off many defenses. Of course, that is a big if and if we lived in a perfect world.
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by Disciple of Carolina on Jan 17, 2012 9:30 PM EST via mobile reply actions
If not McNabb, then who?
Derek Anderson
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by Jake Humphrey on Jan 17, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
I thought Anderson wasnt an option
Integrity first. Service before self. Excellence in all you do. -- USAF Core Values
by Disciple of Carolina on Jan 17, 2012 10:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
McNabb
The only thing mobile about that guy nowadays are his bowels.
Where’s the Weinke dog at?
Do as I say, not as I do... doed.
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by Panthster on Jan 18, 2012 2:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Im an NC State student so I would love to have Russell come back to Carolina
He is so smart and very accurate. He just has that cool, calm composure that you look for in qbs. On top of it, he played in pro style offenses. So I think he will be one of the best back ups in the league. With that being said, I would prefer to try and find the next David Gettis and/or Greg Hardy in the later rounds since DA can be a solid back up for a few more years.
By the way James, Russel is fully committed to football now as he has told the Rockies that he will not be reporting to Spring Camp. Here is the story.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7452336/russell-wilson-pursue-football-report-colorado-rockies-spring-training
I like the position by position review vids on panthers.com
but that bryan strickland guy is really irritating to watch. Mike Craft is a much better presenter. You can tell bryan hasn’t had much time in front of the camera as his nervousness was apparent with the head tilts and lack of focused eye contact. Mike Craft seems a real cool dude, though
by Atlantapanther on Jan 17, 2012 10:49 PM EST reply actions
I always thought that Josh Johnson would be a great backup
He is athletic, accurate, elusive and reliable for a number 2. Should be relatively cheap, but i guess he probably wants a shot at being a starter somewhere.
by West Aussie Lyall on Jan 17, 2012 11:10 PM EST reply actions
Accurate is being a bit generous
I was stoked when I heard we were playing Johnson and not Freeman. Just saying
"One step at a time"
It's called
A veteran back up. Not some project or question mark or draft pick. Russell Wilson is 5-10.
We have a undersized QB that is a apparent late bloomer named Armanti Edwards.
I've got to say this is a complete waste of a post.
I’ve read through 85 comments, and haven’t seen one that discusses what this guy’s done, what his passing stats were, what his rushing record’s been, who he’s beaten, etc, etc. And neither does the original post.
Is this some kind of early April Fool’s post?
Are we supposed to take seriously the notion that he’s a potential backup of Cam, who’s recommended to us because he plays a similar style? When he’s 6-7"shorter, I don’t know how many lbs lighter (because it never said!), and the poster’s discounted Armanti Edwards numerous times as a QB backup, for those reasons, among others??
Nonsense. I think somebody’s bored being Down Under, and having a spot of fun, at our expense.
by bigdavis on Jan 18, 2012 12:13 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
With regards to Wilson...
…I can look up the stats, and I’m not going to argue we should draft him (I think we should just stand pat with who we have), but he is extremely smart with the football. I believe at one point a couple years ago he set a college football record (or at least ACC record) for the most consecutive passes without an INT. And I mean it stretched on for almost an entire season. Because of his height, I think he is at best a career backup. And when we (by that I mean Hurney et al) are apparently as good as they seem at picking up genuine talent in the later rounds, I want them to fill some depth and some holes on this team…not get a 5’10" QB who can move around the pocket.
It's stupid
Dude quit on NC State and you still have college fans blinded by whatever it is that makes them want the same garbage on the Panthers that they had at NC State. or UNC. Or where ever the hell you went to college. I don’t care, nobody cares that you think Armanti is special because you went to App. or whatever corner from VT is a steal in the 1st. The rest of the world doesn’t revolve around your alma mater.
Talk about drafting a QB at all is just a waste.
Well, to be fair..
…Russell Wilson was a good QB at NC State. Perhaps its not blind allegiance to an alma mater that is making people say they’d like to see some players in a Panthers uniform? Maybe it’s because they are legitimately good players…maybe you should take a step back and not get defensive because people like certain players, eh?
double post...my apologies...
…but my post was just about why people might like to see him in a Panthers uni…personally, I don’t think we should take a QB at all in this draft. We have much more pressing matters.
To be fair, you're acting just like the App State homers
just on the other side of the fence.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Jan 18, 2012 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
Actually dude got his scholarship taken away at NC State.
"If ya ain't first, you're last."
- Ricky Bobby's Dad
"There is no evidence that the tongue is connected to the brain."
-Frank Tyger
by KaiserBromley on Jan 19, 2012 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
i hate to say this
But Clausen really wasnt given a fair shake. he was a rookie thrown into an awful offense that not too many quarterbacks could have had success in. i’m not just talking about the personnel, i’m talking about the OC and the system. Davidson was a terrible coordinator. I guarentee if clausen played for chud and this personnel he wouldnt have looked like a blind squirrel searching for an acorn. i think he’s a pretty viable backup for cam going forward dispite the fact that they have two completely different skill sets
I sort of disagree about Clausen
I think he has the innate tendency to run backwards in the pocket when pressured instead of moving side to side or stepping up in the pocket to avoid the pass rushers. It’s something I noticed Blaine Gabbert does a lot too. That’s difficult habit to break and I don’t think Chud could’ve helped in that regard.
Everytime I saw Gabbert play this year,
I saw him shit his pants when a D-Lineman got free and throw the ball in the ground at least once a game. Made me smile because 1) Reminded me of Clausen last year and, 2) We halfway considered drafting him last year.
"If ya ain't first, you're last."
- Ricky Bobby's Dad
"There is no evidence that the tongue is connected to the brain."
-Frank Tyger
by KaiserBromley on Jan 19, 2012 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
Russell Wilson
chose Wisconsin over Auburn for that final year of eligibility. The Auburn coaches thought he would be a great choice to step into the offense where Cam Newton had flourished; so I think he would be a good choice if rhe Panthers wanted to draft a QB. Good character and very smart. We would have been glad to have him. Auburn people say that he chose Wisconsin because they guaranteed he would start and we did not. That may or may not be true, because we also lost most of our NC O line to graduation.
by Anne Curtis Davidson on Jan 18, 2012 5:00 AM EST reply actions
OT
But Atlanta has hired Mike Nolan as DC, and that scares me a lil’ bit. Very good defensive coach.
Yeah, that scares me a bit also.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Jan 18, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yikes!
Fortunately they don’t have draft picks to improve that defense for a year or two.
"If ya ain't first, you're last."
- Ricky Bobby's Dad
"There is no evidence that the tongue is connected to the brain."
-Frank Tyger
by KaiserBromley on Jan 20, 2012 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
No way
Give me Derek Anderson over this 5’10, probably undrafted prospect.
I agree, I’d rather have DA than a 5’10 rookie that doesn’t know the system. At this point I’d rather have Clausen over Russell too. He at least has some experience in the NFL. If we are ever going to draft a backup for Cam it should be when Jimmy’s rookie contract runs out.
by keebler elf on Jan 18, 2012 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
So...
we have major holes on defense and offense and we are thinking about taking a backup. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want what happened in Indy this year to happen to us (cam get hurt and suddenly we win 2 games on Dereck Anderson’s watch) but there are greater needs on this team. Besides, I’m not sure how Cam would like the idea of us drafting another QB (which would be the fourth QB in three years I might add). I think if we can find a Vince Young style qb and sign them as a free agent, that would solve the problem much more easily.
Anderson ....
I was an Anderson “hater” when we picked him up. It wasn’t until I saw Newton talking about how much DA had helped him learn the system more quickly and how good of a mentor he was. I don’t think anyone can argue with the result. Your backup doesn’t have to be a clone of your starter, he simply needs to be a game manager. Anderson understands the offense and had success with it as a starter. We don’t need to waste a pick on something I believe we already have. just saying
"if you see my face again, it means I scored again" Steve Smith..
also...
It doesn’t hurt that Newton seems to like Anderson. He even bragged about how well everything goes in the QB meetings.
"if you see my face again, it means I scored again" Steve Smith..
my thoughts exactly
we have a great run game, and Anderson has the arm to keep defenses honest. more concerned with creating more depth at rotation positions.
by Lost_terrapin on Jan 18, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Keed Derek Anderson This Year
Draft Tyler Wilson out of Arkansas next. He put up big numbers this year and possibly could be a late second maybe even mid 3rd rounder next year if he comes out.
by RazorbackBrave80 on Jan 18, 2012 2:43 PM EST reply actions
I'm sticking with Kellen Moore if he takes a Colt McCoy slide
He’s about the same size as Drew Brees but he plays smart and hard. You can say he doesn’t have the biggest arm but he makes good decisions which is something you want out of your backup QB. He’s also a leader, something that Clausen never was
I think we’re looking too ahead too far though. DA will stay and continue to mentor Cam and will be a good backup QB. I think it’s always important to have a veteran QB on the team and DA already said he’d like to stay
CAM....CAAAAAAAAM

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