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What we should have learned over this past weekend.

While waching the games this past weekend it is still obvious defense still wins championships. Even the Patriots defense stepped up and played well. I know alot of the fans on here want to go CB in the first round of the draft but after watching the front seven on the defenses this weekend play you would think the way still to stop a high powered offense is getting to the QB. A sold pass rush will always help the DB's in coverage look better. They will not be having to contain receiving threats for extended periods of time. I am not saying we should not address our secondary by no means. Just with our first two picks we should look at getting some better defensive line players to help out our one real pass rusher in CJ. He can not do it all by himself. I know alot of people like the Kracken on here but he really has not stepped up his game like I though he would. If we had a better front seven our secondary would seem to be better with one or two later round additions back there of finding a player in free agency. With that all being said getting the QB off his marks still is the way to go in this pass happy league. I believe we all saw bits of that this past weekend. Panther Nation I would like to have your thoughts on this.

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I agree and disagree

I think most of the defenses you’re referring to were led by their front 4 more so than front 7 (I’m thinking specifically of the Giants & 49ers). I agree that having a dominant front 4 would be awesome; however, the easiest way to make my point is saying, simply; “you can’t force it”. I don’t see any DE/DT/(or even LB for that matter) in this draft worth a top 10 pick. You could maybe make a case that Brockers upside makes him worthy (similar to Newton with the #1 pick) but there is no clear cut talent. Coupled with the fact that ‘as of right now’ our defensive style is to blitz and play zone coverage and I think our choice is obvious: Dre K. He isn’t fantastic in man coverage but he has zone experience and has the physical tools to be elite.

Disclaimer – After reading a bit about the Steve Wilks situation I find myself wondering if he is the back-up plan in case Sean McD doesn’t pan out. If we didn’t run a zone blitzing scheme I’d be screaming my head off for a proven DT but given the lack of talent and current scheme I find myself being less concerned. Show me someone worthy and I could be swayed.

"One step at a time"

by mcdonaldwr on Jan 15, 2012 10:01 PM EST reply actions  

+1

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Jan 17, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed...

but not because of this weekend. I’ve been waiting to push my moch draft out to CSR because it doesn’t make since to before the combine, senior bowl, and pro-days. I do enjoy everyone elses and it makes for good reading now that the season is over.

Last year I was all by myself on the Cam Newton bandwagon before Andrew Luck said he’s returning to school. This time I’m going on a limb again and say that Carolina will draft Quinton Coples.

I believe that we have the players that we need at the defensive tackle position to avoid choosing one in the first round. River is big on Edwards and we drafted two DT’s last draft. Not to say that we won’t draft one but it won’t be in the first round.

I would love Dre Kirkpatrick but we have a couple corners coming back from injury. A Defensive End with measurables like Coples you can’t find later in the draft.

"It is now official... Cam Newton is now the face of our franchise.

by Caro2daheart... on Jan 15, 2012 10:02 PM EST reply actions  

I found myself consistently underwhelmed by Coples

but I’m sure Rivera would appreciate his versatility.

"One step at a time"

by mcdonaldwr on Jan 15, 2012 10:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with the idea of a versatile pass rusher being pursued by Rivera.

I think Aldon Smith/Justin Smith and Pierre-Paul/Tuck combo are the type of combo that would make any defense look better. The Packers D without Cullen Jenkins pass rush presence really left a gaping hole for them.

The Giants pass rush is so good they make that shitty 2ndary look decent. We already have CJ, which is a huge plus. He just needs a partner in crime to rush the passer.

Welcome to the Cam Cave

by jdough on Jan 15, 2012 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

It also doesn't make sense...

to make a mock draft/predict the pick before free agency.

by pantheredgar on Jan 16, 2012 7:46 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Agreed on Coples. Dude has intangibles that can't be taught.

And when motivated, he can become a terror for opposing offenses.

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Jan 17, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

We've been down this road before...but there's a huge problem with what you just said.

“When motivated”

He shouldn’t have to be motivated to reach his potential.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 17, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

True, but Rivera has a pretty decent track record with guys who have motivational issues.

The Kraken, Lafell, and Hogan all have had their motivation questioned, yet the new staff seems to have been able to bring out their talent.

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Jan 17, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

And none of those were taken in the first round.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 17, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

And none of them have the potential of Coples.

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Jan 17, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

First rounders...especially top ten picks...should be near-locks at their position.

You shouldn’t waste a top ten pick on potential, especially when that potential is met with laziness.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 17, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Right On The Money BW

Coples – 7.5 sacks and 15.5 TFL’s

Mercilus – 16 sacks and 22.5 TFL’s, against better competion in the Big 10.

by PanthersRoar on Jan 17, 2012 6:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Jason Pierre-Paul

Demaryius Thomas. Cam Newton. I’ll catch some flak for the last one, but we had the same amount of reason to believe Cam was lazy this time last year that I’ve seen from Coples.

Yes I'm a dude.

by Flowing Willow on Jan 18, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I feel you.

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Jan 18, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Hardy does

Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91

by Jake Humphrey on Jan 17, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree.

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Jan 17, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

He was seen as high as a top-10 pick at one point.

Then a myriad of issues, including a poor senior season caused his draft stock to fall. He’s insanely talented.

Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91

by Jake Humphrey on Jan 17, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Given that he played through a foot injury this year, I'll give him a pass.

But 3 sacks in 16ish games this year is not very impressive.

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Jan 18, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Your Right kf4, Hardy Had Around The Same Number Of QB Pressures As CJ, He Just Wasn't As Good A Finisher

His foot may have held he back slightly, reducing his speed a little. However, because of his foot/ankle surgery as the result of a car wreck in college, I’m sort of holding my breath for him a little next season.

by PanthersRoar on Jan 20, 2012 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds like Peppers all over again....

We all know how ‘disruptive’ he always was even on his off days…

"When you do something you love you don't have to work a single day in your life... I still haven't worked a single day in my life!" ~Carlos Santana

by Panther4Life!!! on Jan 17, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Coples has Peppers' lack of motivation...

But unfortunately he also lacks Peppers’ level of talent.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Jan 17, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly!

Why draft a DE with that same lack of motivation and nowhere near the talent that Pep has? I think we could use our pick on many other better prospects.

"When you do something you love you don't have to work a single day in your life... I still haven't worked a single day in my life!" ~Carlos Santana

by Panther4Life!!! on Jan 17, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

If we go pass rush then we should take Mercilus.. Mercilus is Simeon Rice 2.0. Same size, was a beast in college and both went to the same school. I know people on here say stats dont matter, i disagree. When a prospect like Mercilus has domimant stats everywhere like he does then it matters a great deal. 9 forced fumbles, 16 sacks (tied with Simeon Rice’s school record BTW) 22.5 tackles for loss!! 22.5! Some DEs dont even have that many overall tackles, let alone anywhere near that amount TFLs. BTW, those stats.. All from just one season.

Scouts have him as a perfect fit for a 4-3 defense. We need to draft Mercilus or Dre K although im leaning Mercilus more and more

by PantherTrain on Jan 15, 2012 10:47 PM EST reply actions  

I'm a little worried about Mercilus only having one year of production.

If he was so talented, why wasn’t he playing as much in his first two years with the Illini. Also, aside from Ohio State and Wisconsin, Mercilus didn’t really lineup against any solid lineman.

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Jan 17, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

To play devils advocate

Newton only had one season as well.

by Philipkcks on Jan 17, 2012 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

And to further that.

He had some great games against Wisconsin and Ohio State’s MIke Adams.

Yes I'm a dude.

by Flowing Willow on Jan 18, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

True, but he also had some success at the JUCO level.

I’m not totally sure if the “light finally turned on” for Mercilus, or if he is more of a contract year stud.

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Jan 18, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree on Mercilus

I think we pick up Mercilus in the first. Then I have a feeling either Coples,Brockers, or Crick will fall to us in the 2nd rd. It never fails every year a player will slide to the 2nd round just because they were passed over by other teams cause they did not fit a particular teams need at that time.

by Smokewagon on Jan 15, 2012 11:12 PM EST reply actions  

I Agree 100% Smokewagon, Mercilus In The 1st Round

The Panthers greatest need is an improved pass rush, and I’ve been pushing Mercilus (he haf around double the sacks of the drafts other top pass rushing DE’s, against Big 10 competition) as the 1st round pick for almost a month now (if the Jaguars or Dolphins don’t grab him first). A DE rotation of CJ. Mercilus, and Hardy would keep them all fresh for the whole season, CJ and Hardy were wornout by the last 1/4 of the season from over use. Also Hardy could move inside on long passing downs, or Mercilus drop back as a OLB.

Where the Panthers really need pass rushing help is on the inside, but only 1 big DT had good sack number, Cincinnati’s Derek Wolfe (6-5, 300) with 9.5 sacks, 19.5 TFL’s, but whether that will translate to the NFL will likely depend on his speed (if it’s around the 4.92-40 from walterfootball.com, yes, but if it’s the 5.16-40 from nfldraftscout.com, probably not). He may be out of the Panthers reach in the late 2nd or 3rd round anyway. The draft only has 3 other good pass rushing DT’s, Jared Crick (6-4, 285, 4.82-40, late 1st or early 2nd round, before the Panthers 2nd round pick), Brett Roy (6-3, 280, 4.84-40, 5th or 6th round), and Mike Daniels (6-0, 280, 4.83-40, 5th or 6th round), but all are undersized.

A dark horse pass rusher might be Houston OLB Sammy Brown (6-2, 240, 4.67-40, a late 6th or 7th round pick), who had 14 sacks, 30 TFL’s, and 88 tackles.

by PanthersRoar on Jan 16, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree that D-Line is usually more important than DBs

but i dont think ours needs to be addressed as badly as people think it will. Ron Edwards is our ONLY defensive lineman over the age of 26. The Kraken didnt have a great year in terms of sacks but this is only his 2nd year in the NFL, his first year starting, no offseason, and he didnt even play or practice in the preseason because he was recovering from a motorcycle accident. I have faith that in time he will develop into a dominant force and i dont think it will take long (could see it next year). Ron Edward, our veteran presence and most experienced lineman, did not play last year and is returning this year. All of the other player (except for Neblett) were not on the team last year and are either rookies or young FA pick up that came here with no offseason. I think that these guys will vastly improve if you give them some time together and a full offseason.

by pcroadrage on Jan 16, 2012 8:53 AM EST reply actions  

Completely agree...

Upgrade and create a dominant front seven from free agency and the draft. Then we’ll see that Gamble/Munnerlyn/Hogan/Godfrey make a pretty decent secondary. (I’m not counting Sherrod Martin.)

by pantheredgar on Jan 16, 2012 12:12 PM EST reply actions  

I still think that we need another proven corner in the secondary.

The secondary has very little talent behind Gamble.

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Jan 17, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

We need more of a pass rush than we had this season.

However, even when QBs were rushed they could throw it to a wide open receiver on the left side of the field.
I think that our secondary needs upgraded before anything else.
We have 2 safeties who could not cover or tackle this season, and barring Hogan being amazing coming off his injury, we have no real number 2 CB.

Our front 7 will be upgraded next season simply from guys coming back from injuries. I’m not saying that I think Edwards is the long term solution at DT, but having Edwards back, and actually being able to rotate our rotational guys instead of having them play the entire game should make an improvement.

I do agree that we need to look for a long term DT, but for the immediate impact, I can’t see any way that our secondary wouldn’t be our biggest concern through draft or FA.

by Philipkcks on Jan 17, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree about the pass rush, but I still think we need another corner.

Hogan, Munnerlyn, and Butler aren’t going to cut it against a solid pass offense.

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Jan 18, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

My entire point is that I think we need to upgrade our secondary.

Hogan could be a legitimate #2 corner, when he was in games, I never noticed him which means that people weren’t throwing at him.

I have very high hopes that Hogan can be something special, but I don’t think we should be content to bank our secondary on that hope either. We just haven’t seen enough of him.

by Philipkcks on Jan 18, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

No we haven’t seen enough of Hogan yet. But IMO we have seen enough of both rookie DTs to determine that neither one will be a real difference maker at this level.

Once they get everything straightened out between the ears, I feel like either or both DTs will be good rotational guys, but neither guy has the physical makeup to be a starter in this league.

That said, we have a Chris Gamble at CB, who was one of the 3 best CBs in the league last season.

Yes, you need two or three good CBs, but we don’t have anyone on the interior of our DL who can even sniff Gamble’s jock.

Building this defense back up must be done from the ball-out, so the first step would be finding a difference maker (or two) at DT.

No, there aren’t really any rookies who fit that bill, not with the 8th or 9th pick, anyway, but with the recent new about Kirkpatrick, and the likelihood that Claiborne is gone after 3 or 4, CB doesn’t look viable either.

So what then? BPA to an extent (we are not picking RGIII or Trent Richardson)? Or do we look at the OL? I guess trading down would be the best option but that is not likely to happen unless someone gets a hard on for a prospect still available when we pick.

I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.

by ERL on Jan 18, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

The Panthers Also Need A CB Who Gets Ints As Well

That’s the big reservation I have about Kirkpatrick (3 ints in 3 seasons, 0 in his final season). The panthers need to create more turnovers next season.

by PanthersRoar on Jan 20, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

I think we need to upgrade the front 7. The biggest upgrade in the front 7 will be the return of Beason. His return will mean better run defense and a guy who’s better at patrolling the middle to defend against TEs like Graham, Winslow and Gonzales. It would be nice to have a dominant DL to add to the mix, but I would take a guy who is simply consistent, and isn’t a real drop off in talent. A good rotation would keep our guys fresh in the 4th quarter, the time when we give up the most yards and points. But I would also like upgrades at LB, OL, and CB, which is why I say we draft BPA. We’ve given up a lot of deep passes. It was special to watch Jonathan Joseph cover Torrey Smith all over the field knowing many people on CSR were saying we should’ve gone after him. Our secondary needs help bad. I say this because we have a lot of guys who would make good nickelbacks, but are not true #2 corners.

by usana_gaines on Jan 16, 2012 9:33 PM EST reply actions  

The same can go for upgrading the secondary...

The better coverage we get from the secondary, the more time our D-Line has to get to the QB. I think we can address the D-Line through coaching up or FA, and get our secondary some help through the draft.

"When you do something you love you don't have to work a single day in your life... I still haven't worked a single day in my life!" ~Carlos Santana

by Panther4Life!!! on Jan 17, 2012 3:39 PM EST reply actions  

Maybe...

But a good d-line can get you to the qb faster, then he rushes throws, and forces shorter completions. Meaning we need a decent tackling secondary, easier to find than true cover guys.

by Mouse1828 on Jan 17, 2012 5:50 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

True, but if a WR/TE is wide open, then the pass rush becomes nullified.

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Jan 18, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Upgrading either the Secondary or D-Line has it's advantages...

But I’d rather give the D-Line more time with blanket coverage than expect them to get to the QB faster and expect the receivers to be open.

"When you do something you love you don't have to work a single day in your life... I still haven't worked a single day in my life!" ~Carlos Santana

by Panther4Life!!! on Jan 18, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

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