Poll - What QB Stat Is The Best? Help Settle An Argument

by PanthersRoar on Sep 21, 2011 12:51 PM EDT

Please help settle a disagreement among 3 CSR posters, as to what is the best (most accurated, understandable useable, fair, and unbiased) QB Stat of a his performance.

The poll will have 6 different (though not very differnt from each other) stats, which I will explain next, and some combinations of the stats to chose from. To be fair I won't use any posters names, so that won't influence your vote. Here are the different stats.

1. YPA (Yards Per Attempt): A QB's total passing yardage divided by his number of his passes attempted.

2. YPA+ (Yards Per Attempt Plus): A QB's total passing yards, plus the QB's rushing Yards, minus his lost sack yardage, divided by his number of passes attemptsed

3. YPA++ (Yards Per Attempt Double Plus): A QB's total passing yards, plus the QB's rushing yards, minus his lost sack yardage, and the receivers YAC (Yards After Catch), divided by his number of passes attempted.

4. YPC (Yards Per Completions): A QB's total passing yards, divided by his number of completions.

5. YPC+ (Yards Per Completions Plus): A QB's total passing yards, plus his rushing yards, minus his lost sack yardage, divided by his number of completions.

6. YPC++ (Yards Per Completions Double Plus): A QB's total passing yards, plus his rushing yards, minus his lost sack yardage and the receivers YAC (Yards After Catch), divided by his number of completions.

So, whats the disagreement? One side loves the YPA stat, because it reflects (somewhat indirectly) both a QB's yards and completion percentage. The other side believes YPA is misleading because it rewards higher completion percentage QB's, and short changes QB's who make deeper throws. The YPA is rather straight forward, but here's an example of how the YPA can be considered misleading. Tom Brady has a higher YPA than Cam Newton (10.7 yards to 10.3 yards), because Brady has a higher completion percentage than Cam (71.6% to 62.7%), but Cam has a much higher YPC (C=Completions) than Brady (16.8 yards to 14.9 yards).

Here are some other abreviations used in the poll selection (I'm sorry to have to use them, but the answer space is just too small):

PY - Total Passing Yards

RY - Rushing Yards

SY - Sack Yardage

PC - Pass Completions

PA - Passing Attempts

Now which QB stat or stats best reflects a QB's production

Poll

3 votes

I Don't Care

7 votes

25 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

I think the clutch factor does not below in statistics

As it is objective, subject to interpretation, and subject to prejudice. These factors invalidate it in my opinion.

I would like to see wins and losses factored in to weight the numbers although in a small way. A qb who puts up big numbers and fails to win should not rate higher than the qb he is playing that has worst numbers but wins the game by marching his team down the field for the win in less than a minute. I am afraid this system would, rightly so, hurt Cams number. But, I think it is fair and will help him later on and isn’t subject to misinterpretation like a clutch factor while accomplishing the same type impact.

by Panthster on Sep 21, 2011 3:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

below-belong

I like the ypa+ from the options above. I don’t see the diff and total passing yards for a qb.

by Panthster on Sep 21, 2011 3:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

I voted I don't care...

Because it’s the closest thing to how I feel: I don’t give a flying shit.

(No offense intended, but this is way down on my list of stuff to worry about.)

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Sep 21, 2011 4:02 PM EDT reply actions

And, before the fit hits the shan on this, allow me to clarify my position.

I think all relevant stats are important in their own right, and when used in the proper way can be extremely telling of how good/bad a players is, and there’s no point in arguing which one is more important, because they’re all important in their own way.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Sep 21, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions

* a player, not a players....stupid typos

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Sep 21, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Your Right "BW", It's Like The "How Many Angles Can Dance On The Head Of A Pin" Argument

by PanthersRoar on Sep 21, 2011 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions

I think history has settled YPA Vs. YPC

Modern QBs in the top 20 all time YPA: 6
Modern QBs in the top 20 all time YPC: 0

Average year of top 20 YPA: 1987
Average year of top 20 YPC: 1965

Accuracy is important, so we value it now. That’s why YPA is tracked by the NFL and YPC is antiquated.

Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator

by James Dator on Sep 21, 2011 4:43 PM EDT reply actions

That's Why I Agree With You James That YPA Works Best In The Formula

by PanthersRoar on Sep 21, 2011 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions

My problem with YPA+ is this:

It does nothing to knock a QB who runs all the time for terrible gains

QB1: 7/10, 70 yards, 15 rushes for 20 yards: YPA+ = 9.0
QB2: 8/10, 85 yards: YPA+ = 8.5

It makes it look like QB1 was better, but really those 15 rushing attempts for 1.3 yards each probably hurt his team a lot, whereas QB2 completed more passes but appears worse.

If you modified it to account for rushing attempts then it hurts mobile QBs, because a good rushing attempt nets 5 yards whereas a 5 yard pass is considered mediocre, yet they’re being judged equally.

Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator

by James Dator on Sep 21, 2011 4:54 PM EDT reply actions

That's A Great Point James About Pit-Fall Of Adding In A QB's Rushing Yards

I just felt it reflected a QB’s total production to include his rushing yards, and subtract his sack yardage.

One reason I perfer the YPC over the YPA is that YPA punishes a QB for his receivers drops, though I feel usually that drops are more than cancled out by the number great catches made on off target throws by the receivers. Some QB’s are helped by great receivers, while others are hurt by receivers who can’t catch a cold.

I still feel a QB’s sack yardage should be subtracted from the YPA, though it is partly related to a team effort, but so is every play, some QB’s are just much more prone to sacks (David Carr) than other QB’s.

“Panthster” has a great point about needing to factor into the formula you and your friend are working on, a QB’s win-loss record, but it’s all about getting the right balance of each in the formula. Like the 8 to 4 TD to Int number, 2 to 1 would equal the same ratio, but the higher numbers are just required to balance the YPA number, so the formula balanced, and works correctly.

by PanthersRoar on Sep 21, 2011 8:43 PM EDT reply actions