My Two Cents - The Panthers Have Too Many Problems
So, last night's game (against the lowly Cincinnati Bengals) was supposed to be our dress rehearsal for the upcoming season? Based on what we saw, that's going to be a significant problem. After all, this team looked more like the understudies going through the motions of an NFL game than the star actors primed for a great performance (or even a good performance, or maybe just a mediocre one?). Simply put, this team has way too many problems right now to be very good this year...or even competitive. I realize there's only a handful of training camp practices and preseason games to judge things by so far. But, after prior years of seeing supposedly optimistic outlooks go down the drain after miserable preseason performances, I'm not so certain we can discount what we're seeing right now. I'll get into some of the reasons why, and the challenges the Panthers face after the jump...
I don't mean this to be a "Negative Neil" post. However, I'm not going to sugarcoat anything or allow optimism to drown out common sense. Our new coach Ron Rivera doesn't hold back. So, I'm not going to either. However, once I cycle through the list of problem areas and concerns I have, I'll add a few things I think will ultimately help us overcome some of them. So, let's dive in...
Offense
Okay. So, we all wanted to believe this offense would be better than last year. Anyone still sold on that idea? At best, I'm not sure if this year's offense could beat last year's offense. They'd be pushing each other for who could score the least points (and offensive TDs--though the slight edge goes to this year's team). Cam Newton isn't going to turn things around right away (if ever). Jeff Otah hasn't returned to the field (or shown he can stay on it by staying healthy). And, we still don't see any WRs-not-named-Steve-Smith stepping up their game (with the possible exception of Armanti Edwards). Thus, we have problems in the following significant areas on offense:
- Offensive Line - We've got terrible pass protection. And we're not so good at run blocking either, apparently. Jeff Otah might help the latter problem a bit, but he's still a liability against the pass rush. Bernadeau isn't getting it done. Like, at all. Even Jordan Gross is struggling with too many DEs getting pressure around the edges. With as many problems as we have in pass protection, that's why we can't move the ball down the field very well. We have little in the way of a vertical game, but it's not all the O-Line's fault. When it comes to the running game, I don't know what's up. Are we getting manhandled at the line? Are people stacking the box because they know we don't have decent WRs or an accurate QB? Are they running blitzes all the time designed to not only rattle Cam, but stop both the run game and the pass game by getting immediate pressure up field? Maybe all of the above. Either way, the O-Line (and even the veterans) don't seem capable of handling it right now.
- Quarterback - The optimist will say it's a work-in-progress and overlook the negatives to focus on the positives. The plain truth is Cam Newton is helping himself far more with his feet and size right now than his arm. He's too inaccurate (6 for 19?) and, consistently so, to put any kind of fear in an opposing defense. Because everyone knows he can't put the ball on the numbers, they're free to focus on pressuring him into poor throws initially and stopping our run game. That's what sets us up for multiple 3rd and long situations, which are even more difficult to convert. The only good news here right now is that we've got a much stronger (physically-speaking) and mobile QB than in the past. That helps keep some plays alive. But, if the O-Line doesn't get it together, that's not going to matter. And that's why this is a team game and no single player is going to make or break your success.
- Wide Receiver - This is a lingering problem. And a significant one. I don't know if it's the players and their limited skill sets or the coaches and their limited ability to teach these young players. Regardless, we've got a stable of frisbee-catching dogs that can't seem to get separation when they go out on pass routes. Or, they're not running very good pass routes. Either way, when you have an inaccurate QB who needs all the help he can get, these guys aren't bringing anything positive to you. Thank goodness we've got some good (or great) TEs to check down to...and we're doing more check downs and screens to the RBs. Still, once defenses know there's no threat on passing situations other than Steve Smith, they know how to shut us down.
Defense
If I compare last year to this year, the offense may have taken a small step forward in some areas (and regressed in others), but the defense is far worse than before. The problems here are staggering. So much so, that, even if the offense does eventually get it together, I'm not convinced the defense can hold up their end any more. And that's concerning. At least in the past, they worked hard to keep us in games even when Jake was melting down or Jimmy was curling up in the fetal position. The defense was something we could still hang our hat on and say, "If we can just improve that offense, we could go places!" That's not true anymore. And it's because we have just as many problems on defense side of the ball as offense now. Here's a few that I've perceived so far:
- Defensive Tackle - To me, this is the biggest problem area. If a team can run on you all day long, it doesn't matter whether you've got problems at CB or LB. The DTs are supposed to your guys that stuff the middle against the run and force RBs to go outside where DEs can hold things up long enough for the LBs and S positions to move up and tackle. But our DTs are clearly not up to the task. And it's been a problem area for a long, long time now. Some of it's been because of injuries (i.e., Kemoeatu and Edwards). Some of it's due to undersized guys (i.e., Hayden and Fua). Some of it's due to underperforming guys (i.e., Irvin). And, some of it's probably been due to poor drafting (i.e., settling for longshot guys instead of taking sure-thing anchors like Marcell Dareus). See, to me, I would have rather seen the Panthers take Dareus in the draft over addressing the QB situation. Why? Because, with a new coach and a new system...and plenty of 2nd year guys coming back to join a bunch of rookies...and the possibility of not being able to retain your entire core nucleus of veterans (though, we managed to still do that by throwing money at guys)...and the toughest schedule in the NFL looming...I'd have made the assumption that we wouldn't be very good this year. Which means, we would have another high draft pick in next year's draft...maybe even the #1 overall pick again. That means Andrew Luck would be on the table. And, even if he wasn't, you could likely grab the second-best QB next year with just as much "upside" as what we have in Cam Newton. Meanwhile, if we'd taken Dareus in this year's draft, our DT problem might not look nearly as dire...not simply for this season, but far into the future, as well. Instead, we settle for Fua and hope for the best...while also "settling" for Cam, who most experts correctly identified would struggle in making NFL throws. So, to me, this has been a problem of our own making. And, until the Panthers get serious about drafting mainstays for the linemen (both on offense and defense), we're not going to have very successful rebuilding years.
- Defensive End - I list these guys, because they're not getting pressure. And that's key if you already suspect your secondary is sub-par. A good pass rush can help those guys out better than anything. But there's just no penetration. No edge rush. No good swim, spin, or club moves from these guys. They're getting manhandled and misdirected right past the opposing QB. And, perhaps worse, they're pushed out of position on running plays, which means the other team doesn't even have to focus on throwing the ball, because they can keep us on our heels all night long chasing RBs across the field. In last night's game, you didn't just see RBs going between the tackles. They just as easily made their cuts and sweeps around the edge. And the DEs need to hold up their end of things or this is going to be a very long year. Beyond that, they have to generate a pass rush. Without one, our CBs are hung out to dry.
- Cornerback - And speaking of the CB position, we're looking really bad here, too. Now, in fairness, they drafted Hogan in an attempt to shore things up here. But we still lack a decent CB with size. Gamble is just that...a "gamble" right now. I don't know if he's lost a step or what. But he's not a shutdown corner. He's not a terrible corner by any means, either. But he's not getting it done for us. Compared to him, everyone else is worse. And that's saying something, considering he got torched pretty badly a couple of times last night. And that's been more of a trend than an anomaly with him in recent years. I'm seeing way too much separation between our CBs and opposing receivers. It's like the exact opposite of how our WRs look against opposing CBs. Uncanny. What are other teams doing so well in these areas that we can't seem to duplicate? Is it a personnel thing? The wrong guys with limited skillsets? Is it a scheme thing? They just don't know their assignments very well in the new system? I don't know. But it's evident we've got serious problems here. It's been a problem for awhile now. I expect it will continue to be until we get serious in the draft (and have it pay off) or get serious about targeting known, veteran free-agents who can deliver for us.
Miscellaneous
Besides the position breakdown, we've got other problems staring us in the face. Many of these things are compounding the problems I've outlined above. And some of them are to be expected. Nevertheless, they bear mentioning, because they're going to have a significant impact on the season. As such, I think Panther fans need to adjust their expectations about this team. Set down the rose-colored glasses and really examine what we're facing right now.
- Brutal Schedule - Everyone says we've got the hardest schedule in football. Looking through it (and based on what we've seen of our team's peformance so far), it does look that way. Examine some of the RBs our defensive line will be expected to stop. It's a very sobering image when you lay it out that way. The running game controls the clock. Teams are running at will on us right now. Be prepared to see Panther jerseys in a lot of highlights of missed tackles and blown blocking assignments as Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson, Michael Turner, and LeGarrette Blount run wild on us.
- NFC South Division - Part of the reason our schedule is so hard is because we play in what I believe to be the toughest division in the NFL. Top to bottom, New Orleans, Atlanta, and the resurgent Tampa Bay Buccaneers are going to give us a handful. Even if we make strides in improving ourselves, how much will we have improved compared to where those teams are? This is important, because 6 of your 16 games will always be determined by your division rivals. And, if we don't stack up well against them (and we don't), it's going to be a long season no matter how we perform against the rest of the NFL. There's a reason a team like the Miami Dolphins (a team we lost pretty handily to as well) struggles to put together a successful season every year. It's because they run right smack into New England and the New York Jets. When the other teams in your division are excelling, you have to improve yourself that much more to have a chance. I believe the Panthers face this kind of situation to an even greater degree in the NFC South. Right now, we're playing catch-up against our rivals. And, judging by the performance of our veteran, sophomore, and rookie players right now, we're light-years behind everyone.
- New Coach - I love Ron Rivera. I think he'll do a lot to turn this team around and take it places (in terms of offense and defensive schemes) that John Fox's conservative approach never would. But, with a new coach comes a new system. Thus, even our veteran players have to take the extra time to re-learn things. Personally, I think that's good. We needed a shakeup. They need to learn some new ways of doing things. But, for now, they're going to be going through some growing pains right alongside the new guys. Thus, the dividends won't pay out for us until sometime further down the road. And we need to be prepared for that.
- Scouting/Drafting - I still think we have some problems here. The Panthers changed some of their scouting personnel. Hurney does some intriguing things, draft-wise. Sometimes, his gambles seem to pay off. Other times, they seem to hurt our future prospects, either because certain position needs aren't addressed timely enough (e.g., QB, WR2, DT, CB)...or, because we spend a pick trying to address the needs of those positions, but we settle for the wrong guy and it doesn't pay off for us. I'm not going to knock them too hard on this...as we've had some good drafts and good players under Marty Hurney. And, no one knows how some of these players will ultimately pan out. But, to say we don't have any problems or concerns in our scouting and drafting of players would be too optimistic, in my opinion. We could do better here.
- Accelerated Training Camp - The lockout had a profound effect on our team's ability to prepare and install everything. They're cramming stuff in these guys heads as fast as they can. But, no matter what, it's going to affect how well they perform on the field. They're all a work-in-progress. I know Rivera doesn't want to use the abbreviated OTAs and TC practices as an excuse. But, the fact of the matter is that it is an excuse. There's no denying that the Panthers could have used more time in getting ready. And there's no denying (based on what we've seen so far) that they could have greatly benefited from it.
- Injuries/Depth - Are we snakebit at times? Do we need every player's locker to contain a rabbit's foot or something? Seems like every year, we have significant players who go down with significant injuries. More importantly, it doesn't seem like the guys behind them are ready to go when called upon to fill in. For every Thomas Davis we get back, there's a Jeff Otah or Jon Beason with an injury that lingers. Meanwhile, as much as we bring in veteran free agents to address a team need, we see an Edwards go down. It's frustrating. Is it a conditioning thing? Is it a "don't forget to practice smart" thing? Or is it just blind dumb bad luck that situations like this always seem to hold us back. Lots of teams suffer (and endure) injuries to their players...even their core players...but it seems like other teams find ways to address that more quickly and capably than we do. Thus, this is an area of ongoing concern for me. And I suspect it's one for the Panther's front office as well.
Helpful Things
Okay. So, enough of the negative crap. Where's the silver lining? What rays of hope are still out there that we need to consider? We've got a few. We'll have to wait and see how many of them work to our favor. It'll be a long, uphill road, regardless, but let's see what we've got...
- Kentwan Balmer - Interesting pick up. He could immediately help our DT situation by adding both size and experience. He's been cut/released by a couple of teams already, though. So, how much motivation does playing for his hometown team do for him? And how much of an impact can he have for us at that position? Hopefully, a lot.
- Roster Cuts - The big trim downs are looming. Surely, the Panthers brass will be watching the waiver wire closely. And we'd better give some serious attention to improving this team with some veteran free agents and hopeful prospects. If not, I'll once again call into question our scouting/drafting/free-agent acquisition team. This bright spot could be the most impactful for us, both this season and for Rivera's long-term plans for rebuilding this team to better fit his football philosophy.
- Free Agents - There are also some major free agents sitting out this year, some of whom opted to retire that might be coaxed back to give us a hand this year. I'd love to see the front office explore some of those options as well. I hate to make it sound like we're desperate for a stop-gap measure. But we are. Based on where this team is right now, we're carrying too many guys who are having to learn on the job, when we really could benefit from some guys who have been in the trenches before and already demonstrated they have what it takes to play at this level. I think our balance of young players vs. veterans skewed a little too much toward the younger guys this past season...and our record reflected it, especially after some of those veteran starters went down with injuries. Our depth is a problem at several key areas on the roster. Free agency is meant to help with that. We should exercise it more often and more prudently.
- Cam Newton - This continues to be a bright spot for me. No, he's not the second-coming of Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. But he is the first legitimate size QB with the physical tools and athleticism for the job that we've seen in...well, a long time. More importantly, he has the size to stand in the pocket and take a hit. He doesn't get rattled. He has the feet to escape the rush and eat up massive yards by taking off upfield with it...not just to pick up a first down...but to score! He keeps plays alive. It's what he's known for. Once he can learn the system and practice enough to start really improving his throws, it'll be much better for the long-run of the team. But, he's a work-in-progress. The flashes of what he can are still fun to watch.
- The Next Draft - There's always next year. As pessimistic as that might sound, I think it's important to understand that our prospects for making lots of noise this season don't seem all that good. So, you have to treat this as a rebuilding year...a learning year...and a year in assessing guys at their positions so you know what you want to do in the next draft. We have major needs at a lot of positions on this roster. Everyone knows it. You can also reasonably project that we're going to finish near the bottom of the league again. So, we'll have high draft picks. Might as well get that scouting team going right now. Their work is going to be super-important in these first couple of years under Ron Rivera.
- Time - Quite simply, time is the most helpful thing for this football team right now. Time to install everything. Time to learn everything. Time to pick up experience for all of these guys. Time in the weight room to continue adding weight and muscle for a lot of these young guys. And time to gel, both with the O-Line, the QB and WR relationships, the whole defense. There are a lot relationship-building elements that go into a team's chemistry. Quite frankly, the Panthers are pretty fragile at the moment. They need time to establish and develop new leaders among these guys. And they need to absorb everything they can from the veterans while we still have them.
So, there you go. That's my two cents on what I'm seeing so far in regards to this team, what I think will challenge and hinder them this season, and some of the things I think they have to work on or look forward to. We have a lot of work-in-progress guys, both among the players and the coaching staff trying to get everything in place and shape the kind of team they want to have. The fanbase is going to need a lot of patience to make it through the mistakes and missed assignments from game-to-game. But, hopefully, there'll still be some exciting moments and plays from our new guys like Cam Newton as we go forward. Let's see where we go from here...
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My opinion
O-Line looked very shady last night (especially against Cincy’s D)
Glad we signed Balmer for the D-Line
We need a taller and decent CB
We also need a #2 WR (Smith is always double covered)
by rscott94 on Aug 26, 2011 9:37 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I front paged this Neil...excellent stuff.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Great article, Neil
but I would call it more like two dollars instead of two cents. = P
I found myself nodding while reading this article. I agree with your assessments on all accounts, especially the scouting department. The questions you posed are the same questions I have been pondering for the last three years. Hopefully, we’ll get some answers soon.
In situations like this when things are bad, the easy thing to do is fold up the tent, just pack it up and accept it. But winners and people who are successful realize that when things get tough, it’s an opportunity to define yourself. They realize that in this moment, you can do something great. - Jon Beason
by Tarheel Soldier on Aug 26, 2011 10:15 AM EDT reply actions
Excellent work Neil
1. Balmer could be a surprise and help things
2. Everette Brown may get cut
3. Newton will improve in the 2nd half of the season
4. Olsen will lead in receiving yards
5. We will pick up a CB and DT, or two, after roster cuts if not next week then in 2 weeks
6. My prediction is we draft an OT next year or sign a big FA as Otah may or may not be durable
Follow me on Twitter @manu4t
I do hope you realize...
All of these things are possibilities and none of them are facts. It’s just as likely that none of those will happen.
I never said any of these things are facts
that would be stupid. But we have already picked up a DR, therefore, it is now fact
Follow me on Twitter @manu4t
This is where you nailed the problem
“And, some of it’s probably been due to poor drafting (i.e., settling for longshot guys instead of taking sure-thing anchors like Marcell Dareus). See, to me, I would have rather seen the Panthers take Dareus in the draft over addressing the QB situation.”
The front office tried to fix everything in one draft.
I think that's what they have to try to do though
This isn’t necessarily directed at you, but drafting is a combination of educated guesses and gambling. Fua may turn out to be a dominant interior presence in a few years. He’s yet to experience a full offseason and NFL weight program, neither have the rest of the young talent. Patience. We must have patience.
We, for a long time have not had good depth at some positions and that has finally come to haunt us. We let good young depth at OL walk (Hangartner, Omiyale, etc) because of the CBA situation. The WR position has been just a comedy of errors, but they’ve tried to address it in the draft. That’s just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. Look at the Bills and the number of high picks they’ve spent on QB and then land Fitzpatrick who turns out to be the guy. Sure he might not be the long-term solution, but he’s solid. Even look at our own history with free agency, almost without fail our big time free agent pick ups fail to produce. As far as free agnecy for us, it’s been the unheralded guys that come in, make the squad, and leave an indelible mark on the franchise.
Building a team via the draft takes years and this is just the beginning. Before the Patriots were the Patriots, they were 1-15 and were 6-10 the next season, before the Colts were the Colts they were 3-13 and were 3-13 again after they got Peyton.
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques
I don't always dress like a pirate...but when I do, I do it in this picture.
I think you may have missed a major error the Panthers made.
When the Panthers continued to franchise Julius Peppers and then had to restructure the team to fit his salary under the cap. This was the reason we lost team depth and ended up paying players millions after they left the Panthers.
"I may be old but...eh, I forget the rest!"
Well they had to franchise Pep as they couldn't come to an agreement on a contract.
I guess that can be seen as a failure of negotiation and in that regard as an error. Conflicting stories on both sides there.
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques
I don't always dress like a pirate...but when I do, I do it in this picture.
I was one of several who thought Peppers should have been allowed to leave earlier.
My thinking was they should have traded him when he wouldn’t sign the extention they offered to make him the highest paid DE in the league. Then the following two seasons they could have forgone the franchise tag and chosen to let him walk.
I know these would have been tough moves but the Panthers front office was discussing these as options at those times. The loss of salary cap room in those last two years cost the Panthers more than most like to recognize.
"I may be old but...eh, I forget the rest!"
That's a good and fair point.
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques
I don't always dress like a pirate...but when I do, I do it in this picture.
Well, they didn't think he'd wait until the last second to sign the franchise tender. That was ...
a dick move, and I won’t forget it. I can’t see how the Panther organization treated him so badly as to pull that stunt. He was one of the boys that J.R. invited to his home every year. I don’t want him to get hurt or anything, but I hope he sucks (no pun intended).
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Yep,
Everyone thinks the Panthers didn’t want to trade him, but the fact of the matter is Peppers held the team hostage. Had he signed the franchise tender sooner they could have traded him for at least a 1st and 2nd pick to another team. His dick move cost the Panthers at least 2 high draft picks. That is why he will never be the GPOAT to me. (But that’s another thread)
In situations like this when things are bad, the easy thing to do is fold up the tent, just pack it up and accept it. But winners and people who are successful realize that when things get tough, it’s an opportunity to define yourself. They realize that in this moment, you can do something great. - Jon Beason
by Tarheel Soldier on Aug 31, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Them's the breaks...
That can happen to anyone. Cam Newton could have gone down last night with shoulder injury trying to score by reaching across the goal line. You never know what might happen. Even so, setting that aside, I still think it would have made more sense (for the long-term health of the team) to take a rider on this year, pass on taking a QB, and grabbing a long-term lineman in an area of need like DT. Next year’s crop of QBs promises to be pretty good, too. And, again, given our schedule, the rebuilding effort necessitated by the coaching change, and the youth of our team, we can reasonably expect to picking high again in next year’s draft. So, rather than try and fix everything in a single draft, it would have made more sense to spread it out over the first couple of seasons in the Ron Rivera era.
Now, that said, I can also understand why they chose Cam Newton. The guy has charisma. He has raw talent. He can be the face of your franchise and be a good one…all the moreso if he starts to develop into a great leader, and more importantly, a great performer for your team. That’s what the Panthers are gambling on happening. But, for me, I’m conservative enough in my thinking and planning that I would have gone for the sure-thing DT now, then picked up the most sure-thing QB I could grab next year. If that turned out to be Andrew Luck, great. If not, I’d have confidence I could find someone with at least as much upside as Cam. Either way, I’d also have put in place a major presence on the D-line for years to come.
Instead of that approach, the Panthers are gambling on Cam to meet their immediate franchise QB need…and, as we can all see, it’s a pretty significant gamble. He has much to learn. In addition, going into next year’s draft, we’ll be looking at a pretty thin crop of DT prospects. Thus, we won’t find a DT as good as Dareus would have been. At the same time, the QB crop next year looks a bit better than it did this year. So, we would have been alright reversing these two strategies by going DT-QB in 2011 and 2012 rather than QB-DT.
But, as always, that’s just my two cents,
—Neil
by NSpicer on Aug 26, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They have got to get a franchise OT to help him
Otah may or may not be that guy, but Wharton is underwhelming. We need Otah 2.0 except with better knees.
Follow me on Twitter @manu4t
Wharton is an OG, and a good one. He's not the problem.
Perhaps you meant Gross, who indeed has turned underwhelming.
Normally I'm 100% with you Neil, but I'd say Miami fans would disagree with you
They’ve been hurting at QB for over a decade all the while they’ve had good lines. I completely understand where you are coming from and might come to agree with you eventually. But at this point I’m going with conventional wisdom and sticking with starting with a QB.
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques
I don't always dress like a pirate...but when I do, I do it in this picture.
Great Post
I do believe the offense has improved and will continue to improve as time goes by but the Oline does need some work and we really need to get a more quality WR, I was calling for T.O. and Moss a few weeks ago and go chastised for it. Does it still seem like a bad idea? I know Moss retired but so did Favre(3 times) and Kollins(1 time).
T Defense is the main issue right now. The cheerleaders could score on these guys right now!! At least in years past we did one thing good, Either we stopped the run or the pass. This year we don’t stop anything. Something needs to be done and I mean fast.
IT AIN'T SIZE OF THE DOG IN THE FIGHT BUT THE SIZE OF THE FIGHT IN THE DOG
Excellent Post!
Another thing we still have to remember is that this is still a lot of John Fox’s team. Riveria needs some time to make it his team, and with us missing a good chunk of the preseason it will have to roll over into the regular season. I will be happy with a 7-9 season, like we did in 2002. The final roster cuts are going to help out a lot, and I still think the Eagles dump Asante Samuel. There is just no way that they eat all of his salary.
With a name like Lesbian I have to be awesome!
by Lesbian Montgomery on Aug 26, 2011 10:37 AM EDT reply actions
Well organized post
Although it must be said that some CSR members raised exactly the same points as early as January /February (drafting QB, inconsistent OL, OTA situation with lockout). The defense I think will get better in 4-5 weeks. With the offense, I would not be surprised if we see Cam go down early in the season rather than later given the situation with our line.
...
Is it just possible that both the staff and players just didn’t play hard because it’s just pre season? Think about it, we as fans are more upset then the players and coach.. Maybe they are just not tipping their hand?!
If you notice, the defense came out really strong after half time. When regular season approaches I expect for conservative check down pass plays from Cam and our defense will step up.. If pre season really meant anything then I suppose that means Falcons will have the worst season this year and Michael Vick will be terrible?
Interesting perspective...
I’m more inclined to objectively assess preseason play. If this were a mature team putting out this kind of performance in the preseason, I might be inclined to agree with you that we’re just not “tipping out hand” and things might turn out alright once the real season begins. But we’re not a mature team. This is a very young team.
It’s also the very first year of installling a new system under a new coach with all new offensive and defensive coordinators. Thus, I believe what you’re seeing on the field in preseason right now is much more indicative of where we’re truly at as a team right now than it might otherwise normally be. You’ve also got to consider that the lockout situation eliminated OTAs and several practices. The team is behind in its learning curve right now on adjusting to all these new players, schemes, and coaches.
So, we’re not sand-bagging the preseason. I think these performances are truly a reflection of who we are right now. And it’s not like we could have reasonably expected anything different given all the variables in play. If they start the regular season and have some improved success, I’ll attribute that to an accelerated effort on their part to learn and grow. But even so, they’ll have a lot more growing pains to go through as they take on this year’s schedule. Strap in. It’s going to be a bumpy ride.
Great points...much needed realism here at CSR
Too many here were losing their minds after the offseason, predicting playoff appearances, etc. etc. An offseason for a 2-14 team who’s only real improvements were at TE and drafting a boom or bust QB. Of course the jury is still out on Cam, but everyone’s being reminded that he is a rookie with lots of flaws in his game.
But really, we didn’t improve at any position across the board other than TE. And that’s supposed to boost our record against one of the toughest schedules in the NFL? Let’s get real here. I was predicting 6 wins before the preseason, but now I’m thinking 2 to 4 is more realistic after seeing this preseason.
Guys, that team that beat the hell out of most of our starters, is more than likely going to be a 4 win team themselves. We’re in trouble.
I completely agree...
The loss to Cincinnati (and how we lost) in a game that was supposed to be a dress rehearsal (i.e., meaning, we game-planned for this one) is the most troubling aspect of it all. I was willing to overlook the road game in Miami last week. For all the usual reasons, we could have written that off as a typical “don’t show the world too much of what you’ve got” preseason game. But game #3? We were supposed to be clicking on all cylinders in this one, not so much because we had adequate time to prepare (i.e., the lockout complicates the development of this team), but because of who we lost to…
Most experts have rightly cited Cincinnati as one of the worst teams in the league, with an expectation that they took a step back because of the loss of Carson Palmer, Chad Ochocinco, and others. And yet, we still struggle that mightily on offense and defense against them? Yes, we have problems. Big ones. And they’ll take a lot more time and patience to work out.
by NSpicer on Aug 26, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
+cam on the Time one. i think youre right on there
"We want them to play fast, we want them to play physical, we want them to play hard and most importantly we want them to play smart." RR 8-3-11
Kentwan Balmer isn't a difference maker
You have problems when other teams garbage is an upgrade to your starting d-line. I hope we can do better. Just not sure how.
STEVE SMITH!
I'm hoping that he's a case of "wrong place, wrong situation", because the guy has talent and a good build...
but yea, I’m not expecting miracles out of him; hopefully he can get a fire lit under his ass and start using that 6-5 frame like he was supposed to coming out of college!
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
+1
Has gotten lost in the shuffle.
"If ya ain't first, you're last."
- Ricky Bobby's Dad
"There is no evidence that the tongue is connected to the brain."
-Frank Tyger
by KaiserBromley on Aug 26, 2011 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
GREAT post
Summarizes everything and is close to brutally honest, imo. Apparently 2011 is going to be a repeat of 2010 in a lot of ways.
It’s true that Cam can extend play, but at the same time he can’t hit a bull in the ass with a bombsight and bass fiddle. Other than that, we’re all set. He just needs time to grow. Right?
Our defensive line can’t stop the run, can’t get pressure on the passer, and our corners can’t cover. Other than that, we’re all set. Right?
The receivers aren’t getting open. The O-line is pathetic right now sans Otah, so the backs can’t run. Other than that, we’re good to go. Right?
All preseason we’ve all clung to the “it’ll be better when ___________”, and the balnk has been filled in with a lot of excuses – when Beason gets back, when Smitty returns, when Otah is healthy, now that Armanti has a fresh start, now that Fox and Davidson are gone, yada yada yada.
The somewhat brutal truth is that those of us who subjected ourselves to 4 quarters of that awful excuse for a game-planned football game should be able to embrace is that this team is in for a loooooong season and has serious gaps that are fatal on both sides of the ball.
Sure, the lockout hurt this team’s development badly. That’s the cold, cruel truth. Missing all of the extra work afforded to teams with new coaches certainly stunted the growth rate of the team, which is what we’ve seen the last two weeks. This young team iwth a new coaching staff and system is very far behind, and stands no chance of effectively competing for at least the first 6-8 games. And no one is going to have any pity on us – we’re going to get absolutely pasted time and again until this team grows up enought to stop it from happening.
Here’s some additional food for thought. Considering the core of this team is the same as the one that went 2-14, does anyone else think that a lack of sustained early success can thrust this team right back into the doldrums? Will this team have the spine and leadership from both the vets and the coaches to whether the pending storm and come out the other side?
Love him or hate him, John Fox was able to keep the team’s effort and attitude up – with last year being the abberation. He took over a 1-15 team and challenged the manhood of every player. While there was some roster churn and some good adds through free agency, neither Jake nor Stephen Davis we expected to be as huge as they were. I attribute the change in attitude and philosophy to be in the leadership of Fox and his staff.
I’m personally very worried that if these young guys struggle again this year, it may very well become a terminal condition. I don’t know about everyone else, but I sure don’t want to even think about having to repeat this whole process in three years a la the Lions or the Bills.
The only problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
-Margaret Thatcher
by Panther Fan in GA on Aug 26, 2011 2:54 PM EDT reply actions
One problem with a big turnaround is the division
When Fox came in the division was in flux, no one team really dominated from year to year. Now we have two 500 lb gorillas in ATL and NO and a possible sleeper in TB, and they all got better in the offseason, like we did. Unfortunately that is the one thing we cant control, and that RIvera and company will have to live with.
Follow me on Twitter @manu4t
by manu4t on Aug 26, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
but 1 thing guaranteed in the NFL is change
i do not believe those 3 teams will win 10 games again. personally i think tampa will take a step back. SOS is really overrated, because things change so much year to year in this league
"We want them to play fast, we want them to play physical, we want them to play hard and most importantly we want them to play smart." RR 8-3-11
I agree with you on TB
Also I think ATL wont be as good as people think – their secondary is as bad as ours, and their O line is highly suspect to the 3 tech 4-3 …… (hint hint).
I do think NO is the real deal as long as Ingram stays healthy.
Follow me on Twitter @manu4t
New to CSR
Second post here…forgot to introduce myself the first time. Got to know ALAC pretty quick though as he schooled me on the “reply” button’s use.
I’m a Panthers fan living in CT. Spent most of my life in NC though. Man, its been rough
being the only Panthers fan in the state but God it just got a whole lot worse. I had thought some of the same things being said here ie: our defense is pretty solid if we can just do something on offense…but….I was sadly mistaken. We looked like a bunch of middle school newbies out there learning the positions for the first time. I mean we looked like we didn’t know what to do or where to look. And I completely agree with Neil about being “snakebit”. I’ve been telling all the cooworkers who raz me about the Panthers that we seem to ALWAYS have vital people out/injured. I know other teams do to but we seem to take the cake.
Gonna be a loooooong season.
"It stings the nostrils"
In CT too...
I’m not so sure it’s as bad as it seems. There is definitely alot of work to be done, but I have seen some improvement and hope to see more going forward. (I’ve already posted a bunch on other boards, so my comments are there—won’t repeat myself)
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
welcome CT
"We want them to play fast, we want them to play physical, we want them to play hard and most importantly we want them to play smart." RR 8-3-11
Good stuff Neil...
I know its hard for some people to predict a losing season but the reality is on the wall. This team still has issues on bith sides of the ball. Hopefully we’ll be more competitive once the real game planning kicks in, but I’m not real hopeful
That's my hope as well...
…and, if it turns out that way (i.e., they’re more competitive when the real game-planning kicks in), I’ll say more power to them. That’ll mean they’ve really applied themselves and improved. As is, however, I suspect it’ll take most of this season before everyone gets on the same page and gets comfortable. And I’ve got confidence that Rivera and his staff will help them get there, whether it’s by coaching people up or lighting a fire under them.
Just wanted to say I enjoyed the post and rec’d it. Kudos.
"I may be old but...eh, I forget the rest!"
That ^^^^^^^
"Resistance is NOT futile... It's voltage divided by current." -Me
by SwankTheTank on Aug 27, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the full quote is...
“You’re neither as good nor as bad as they say you are.” which I believe in wholeheartedly regarding both this year and last.
With all the needs at DT...
I hear Philly might be letting Trevor Laws go. I wouldn’t mind seeing him here. Just sayin’…
I almost didn't write anything here...
Dude, thumbs the f*** up!
Love this, best read I’ve had in a few days. Your breakdown was harsh to hear but real. I been saying all this time 6-10 for this year and I’m starting to think thats being optimistic. Seriously I’m about to create a new tag name just so I can rec this again lol jk for real tho, I’ll be looking forward to the day your confidant enough about this team to write a ‘we da shit’ article lol
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge,
but rather in a lack of will.
- Vince Lombardi
by Tommy_The_Pantherian on Aug 27, 2011 8:47 AM EDT reply actions
Good points, however deflating they are
They are legitimate. I would counter with: both lines, while suspect, have had little time to gel. As the season progresses so will they. The same can be said with the QB. Also, any given Sunday anything can happen. Case in point the Seahawks dominating the Saints in last years playoffs. Momentum. As the new system is slowly learned wins will come. There are a lot of rookies/newbies that didn’t go through last years debacle, including the coaching staff. This is their team. As the wins come so will the momentum. We just don’t know. Who knew in ‘03 that a passed over QB in Jake Delhomme with an over-the-hill RB in Stephen Davis and a 5’9" unproven WR would lead this team to the Superb Owl? Are we going to the playoffs? No. Will we win at least 6 games? This fan says yes.
by Swamp Panther on Aug 27, 2011 7:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Great post!
Excellent stuff here. The biggest concern I had was watching Jordan Gross get completely worked against NYG in week 1. That doesn’t bode well for the running game or passing game. The d-line was horrible as well. We are going to have serious time of possession issues if we keep giving up 5+ ypc and can’t protect our QB.
"I won't publicly endorse a product unless I use it exclusively and I really believe in it. My only official recommendations are US Army issued mustache trimmers, Morton's Salt, and the C.R. Lawrence fine two inch style oscillating knife blade."
Wake Up!
When is the Panthers organization going to realize that you can have the top talent is all the right places but this can not replace being Stout on the offensive and defensive lines. This is where most games are won and lost!
Can't argue with your assessment, Neil, but
I don’t think it’s as bad as it appears. For one thing, Rivera, chud, and Mcdermott are not showing much of their offense or defense. Once the reg season gets here, I think you’ll see more varied offense that will keep other teams off balance. Though I preferred Patrick Peterson in the draft (had a pick 6 off Rivers this weekend), Newton is the best we have and gives us the best chance to win. I like the way he’s taking care of the ball and not throwing interceptions.
On defense, we will blitz a lot more than the preseason, and bring pressure on 3rd and long. We may have to run blitz to make up for our DT deficiency. Will put pressure on the corners, but Gamble and Capn are both playmakers and should get some interceptions with blitzing pressure.
I look for us to add another DT, CB, and maybe WR, depending on who becomes available that should strengthen our team.
Hope so.
Speaking of PP, I thought he wasn’t doing too great so far?
The thing that gets me
is the way the D line was pushed around by both the Dolphins and Bengals. I mean their Offensive lines literally just pushed our D-Line out of the way during running plays and didn’t budge when pass protecting. I don’t know if game planning can prevent getting pushed around. That’s what is worrying me.
In situations like this when things are bad, the easy thing to do is fold up the tent, just pack it up and accept it. But winners and people who are successful realize that when things get tough, it’s an opportunity to define yourself. They realize that in this moment, you can do something great. - Jon Beason
by Tarheel Soldier on Aug 31, 2011 3:26 PM EDT reply actions





















