While Cam Coaster Rolls On, The Panthers Defense Causes Concern
by Bill Voth on Aug 25, 2011 11:12 PM EDT
Email
Print
If I was a proper columnist, and not a soon-to-be former tv guy dipping into the blogosphere, I would focus on one angle after tonight's preseason mess in Cincinnati: Cam Newton. So I guess it's convenient that I don't have to play the role of a proper columnist and can instead spew about a bigger issue.
You see, we didn't learn anything about Newton that we didn't already know. He can pick up chunks of yards on the ground. He throws hard. He's inaccurate. He throws off his back foot too often. He's electric. He's sloppy.
None of that is new or news. The larger concern after tonight is the Panthers defense. And while it's been clear that defensive tackle and cornerback were problem areas, the question now is: are those areas even worse than many thought?
Some will point to the Ron Edwards injury as a huge blow at defensive tackle. And it was significant. But let's not pretend Edwards was the second coming of the 2003 Kris Jenkins. Edwards could have been the Panthers best DT in at least three seasons, but that's not saying a whole lot.
Since Maake Kemoeatu tore his achilles on the first day of training camp in 2009, defensive tackle has been a mess. What have the Panthers done to fix it? Trade for Tank Tyler. Sign Hollis Thomas. Draft a couple guys in the third round. That's like putting a band-aid on a problem the size of Kemoeatu.
Last week, Reggie Bush ran inside successfully for perhaps the first time in his NFL career. Tonight, the defensive tackles were again moved around like chess pieces. Fantasy footballers that own Arizona's Beanie Wells are already frothing at the mouth for Week 1.
As far as cornerback goes, Chris Gamble has been and still is the Panthers top guy. At least, he's getting paid that way and he's been asked to be a "shut-down" corner. And while AJ Green could turn into a fantastic NFL WR, the fact that he burned Gamble badly twice tonight is concerning.
If you struggle against the fearsome rookie duo of Andy Dalton and Green, it's unlikely teams will be afraid of "Gamble Island." Oh yeah, and again, he's the Panthers best CB.
With all that said, it'd be ridiculous to say with certainty that another 2-14 season is on the way. Most of the "problems" we can harp on is from two preseason games. Last time I checked, they don't mean anything.
Of course, neither did the preseason games in 2010. You remember those, right? The ones where the Panthers told us not to read into an offense that deserved a parade when they somehow earned a first down.
The Panthers aren't going to make a Super Bowl run this year. A playoff berth is also unlikely. This season is more about making significant improvements, especially at quarterback. The Panthers are willing to hop on the Cam Coaster in hopes that the ride will be smoother in future years.
Those 2010 preseason results were precursors of what would come. Will the same be the case in 2011? It's still way too early to make that call, but it's not too early to at least be concerned.
630 comments
|
6 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
First off I'm glad we signed Balmer
Second off we’ve got to get a #2 WR and a Decent taller CB
by rscott94 on Aug 25, 2011 11:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I'm thinking CB might be more important than WR
Even a great WR can’t catch inaccurate passes. The only chance to win games is to keep the score low, and we need better defense than the crap we saw today.
Those lanes were wider than pam anderson’s vagina.
It’s like we called the Pearl Harbor play all night; “we’ll lay down and ya’ll can bowl over us all night.”
That said, keep in mind it’s a new defensive scheme and young defense. I predict it’ll improve as the year goes on (it better).
I'm thinkin those needs are kinda equal right now
They double cover Smitty because they know the other WR aren’t realy a threat and the passes are “inaccurate” because the O-Line didn’t give Cam enough time imo
And overall our defense just looked terrible (which it is a new system and I do believe the players will learn later on)
by rscott94 on Aug 26, 2011 12:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
the raiders just signed lito sheppard
i didn’t know he was available. i think we should just go ahead and trade for asante samuel. cam will be a great QB in time, but we can’t afford to have him trying to win shootouts because our defense is so horrible,.
by usana_gaines on Aug 27, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
The Eagles want 2 2nd rounders
for Asante, not worth it for a rebuilding that will select in the top 5-10 again. Would have thought fans would get sit and tired of Hurney trading away quality picks? I guess not.
didn't know they wanted so much.
i was thinking a 3rd at the most. i guess you think fans are still okay with hurney trading away quality picks. not really concerned with your guesses, though.
by usana_gaines on Aug 28, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed on all accounts Bill
It seemed the Bengals used one, and only needed to use one move on us: double the only threats on the DL and isolate the DE opposite Charles Johnson, whether that was Brown, Norwood…. whoever. From here they just ran right at that side over, and over, and over again.
All the Panthers can grab right now are band-aids to cover the bullet hole, at least for a little while. Hopefully Balmer can contribute, and perhaps another DT of skill will hit the market in cuts. As it stands this group just isn’t going to get it done on the interior line, Fua is far and away the best of the guys we have right now… but that’s not saying much.
I’m willing to give Gamble the benefit of the doubt… for now. Lets not forget he hasn’t played in a game since 11/28/10 due to his spat with Fox. I’m hoping there’s just some rust for him to kick off.
We can also hope that Hardy...
will be a difference maker upon his return.
by Derek Leazer on Aug 25, 2011 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Brown is too easy to attack.
Any OC will target his side, any play he’s on the field.
Solution: Easy. Keep him OFF the field. Man can’t read, can’t adjust, can’t turn, can’t tackle. Accept your mistake, and cut his useless ass.
i agree with cutting Brown
I am only commmitting on what Ive seen but All the teams this preseason so far have exploited his side, If Benson and Bush are having big yard plays on us with him on the field , then we dont have much of a chance stopping any team this season
After rewatching the 1st quarter with extensive slo-mo usage, I saw a more subtle issue...
As far as the run defense, the problem wasn’t just that holes opened on the line, it was linemen getting to our LBs (and often holding them; just saying what I saw). Holes that normally would have been easily plugged by Conner/Beason in the middle, instead looked like a wide open freeway because Connor had an OT’s arm wrapped around and pulling him away. The same happened on the edge runs, and often times it was the opposite side LB running across to make the tackle.
Also, we haven’t been blitzing like we will when the season starts. When we have, good things have happened more often than not.
Last year, our defense was amazing in preseason, even Brown was beast-like. When the season came along, the bend don’t break Fox philosophy worked as advertised, we bent a lot. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that what we’re seeing as individual breakdowns now are just part of an evaluation process, and that the defense that show up in Az will be angrily seeking Mr. Kolb from all angles. Until then, I’m withholding judgement on McD’s D.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Good stuff Bill
I’m hopeful that the Balmer signing will help alleviate some of the problem at DT. We definitely need the help there for sure.
I’m not too terribly worried about Gamble yet…but if he keeps this up for a few more weeks then it’s time to be concerned.
Cam looked like I expected him to. Pretty rough around the edges with a few flashes of brilliance (the two long runs).
Hopefully this stuff is just the product of being the preseason and it works itself out when the bullets start flying for real.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Don’t know if you saw this BW, the new Berkeley coach Jeff Cruze took a beating tonight at Stratfort (28-0). He had a good coaching record at Hanahan so maybe its just a starting glitch.
"I may be old but...eh, I forget the rest!"
I’m not from the lowcountry, so I honestly have no clue who you’re talking about, lol.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I migrated here after I got married because my wife wanted to live where she grew up.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I really wish Brandon Hogan was healthy
i’d like to see what he could do opposite gamble…
"Don't put off til tomorrow what you can put off til the day after tomorrow." -Mark Twain
by SouthernPanther on Aug 25, 2011 11:29 PM EDT reply actions
Big move signing Balmer
but waaaayyyyy too many flags. The fact that Gamble got beat deep twice is definately not good but I’ll say we need a better pass rush and that should help. We have Balmer… haven’t seen the kracken, but I would love to bring in a bigger DE and junk everyone under the Kracken…
"It is now official... Cam Newton is now the face of our franchise.
by Caro2daheart... on Aug 25, 2011 11:33 PM EDT reply actions
It's really not that big of a move.
We get to kick the tires on the guy for a couple of weeks and see if he can contribute as a DT. If not we cut him and nothing is lost. I’d really love to know what happened in Seattle.
"Keep Pounding" -Sam Mills
Follow me on Twitter
The thing that is the most frustrating...
is that we’ve had the same problem positions for years now, and they continue to be problems. I just don’t understand it…
"Don't put off til tomorrow what you can put off til the day after tomorrow." -Mark Twain
by SouthernPanther on Aug 25, 2011 11:35 PM EDT reply actions
Yep
DT, CB, WR#2. Seems like evry season we’re hav8ing the same conbversation about the holes in the Panthers roster.
Maybe Hurney and the scouting team just can’t evaluate those positions… I really can’t understand why we have the same holes this year as we had two and three years ago.
Other teams seem to have no problem plugging holes. like Bill said, we’ve been looking for a serviceable DT since the preseason of 2009! I mean, does it really take two off seasons to figure out that the team needs a DT to stop the run?
How long have we been trying to plug the #2 WR spot? Since 2005. That’s how long. No wonder the outside media thinks we’re a laughing stock.
In situations like this when things are bad, the easy thing to do is fold up the tent, just pack it up and accept it. But winners and people who are successful realize that when things get tough, it’s an opportunity to define yourself. They realize that in this moment, you can do something great. - Jon Beason
by Tarheel Soldier on Aug 26, 2011 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow, there are so many typos I don't even know where to start
Sorry, guys… I need coffee….
In situations like this when things are bad, the easy thing to do is fold up the tent, just pack it up and accept it. But winners and people who are successful realize that when things get tough, it’s an opportunity to define yourself. They realize that in this moment, you can do something great. - Jon Beason
by Tarheel Soldier on Aug 26, 2011 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow! Now I can say I told you so...but why?
I was a strong advocate to pick Marcell Dareus in the draft. There were others but as a whole we were shouted down by the Camwagoneers. I think the franchise could see the problems in both areas and made a decision to bring in a QB.
Now the call is why didn’t the Panthers address DT, CB, and WR. I suggest it was priorities and available talent. Such is the life of an NFL GM.
The majority won here. You got your pick. I have moved on from the Cam vs Dareus selection and suggest others do the same. My new hope is for Cam to show continuous improvement over the new season and for our other draft picks to do the same.
This is a team in transistion and as such it will not be a rapid shift in fortune. The Panthers are young and face the toughest schedule in the NFL this season. I have said I predict a 5-11 season and feel that is on the optomistic side of reality. Hope I’m wrong, but I’m in for the duration and will be pulling for a win each week. The bigger picture is to be looking for player development as the season progresses.
"I may be old but...eh, I forget the rest!"
Yea, not a good showing for us
Looks like I was getting to hopeful for this team… at least early in the season. I think the OL will jell after a half dozen games and significantly help the offense.
The defense… wow, what happened to them? They don’t look nearly as good as last year. Why did they play so well against the Giants and not even show up for the last two games.
I am not sure Balmer ( a reject from 2 other teams) is the answer tho. We need a talented DT, DE, CB, and a number 2 WR. That sounds like a whole draft’s worth of players. Can we really find that many among the cuts?
I've been screaming about our DTs, so I'm glad you said it
Because everyone just writes me off as being negative. But starting a 1st round rookie is hard enough. We are starting Fua, a 3rd round rookie, and Irvin, a guy who couldn’t even break last year’s sorry roster. And we are not starting them because these guys have shown something (they haven’t). We are starting them simply because there’s no one else.
I understand all out other problems… Rookie QB makes rookie mistakes, o-line should be better, etc. But Rivera is a defensive “genius”. He should have seen this sorry Dline coming a mile away.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 25, 2011 11:37 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
#1 Defensive Problem, No Pass Rush, Only 1 D-Line Sack In 3 Games, By Ugo Chinasa
The Panthers simply must find a pass rush! DT Trevor Laws (6-0 3/4, 304) had 4 sacks, and 5 passes defended last season as a backup with little playing time, and he’s on the Eagles roster bubble, behind Derek Landri (because he’s been out with a hip flexor). Hardy coming back can’t fix the pass rush problem by himself, Brown and Norwoord have done nothing. After the 1st game, and as soon as the gunshot in his leg heals the Panthers may need to sign free agent DE Antwan Smith.
by PanthersRoar on Aug 25, 2011 11:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
brown has been awful
he didn’t contain the edge once on a running play…he was always upfield, past the play
"Don't put off til tomorrow what you can put off til the day after tomorrow." -Mark Twain
by SouthernPanther on Aug 25, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
DE Antwan Smith
I think you have a future in an NFL front office
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Aug 25, 2011 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry I Ment Free Agent Veteran DE Antwan Odom
by PanthersRoar on Aug 25, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
BOO!!!
I wanted to sww a converted tailback into DE. All this in jest and good fun, not trying to be ugly.
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Aug 26, 2011 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I rec here!!!
"It is now official... Cam Newton is now the face of our franchise.
by Caro2daheart... on Aug 26, 2011 7:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I for one
Would like to see some fire from the coaches. It’s going to be up to them to set the tone. All I saw of Rivera tonite was yawns and chin holding. I know there has to be a tiger in there somewhere.
Speaking of tigers…uh, bulldogs…TD was a monster tonite. Let’s hope his knee holds up.
I’m okay with a little calm teaching going on right now. When the season starts is when to light the fires.
"I may be old but...eh, I forget the rest!"
Actually, we kind of agree. I like the fire during practice, but during a preseason game is not the time to get into someones face when you can’t walk them through what you want from them.
"I may be old but...eh, I forget the rest!"
fair enough
gettin in faces is not necessarily what i was referring to…my mistake for not being clearer. We’ve been getting manhandled and to me the team looks flat. FB is the ultimate game of emotions and just dont see it in the players or the coaches. I watch that kind of stuff as much as I watch the x’s and o’s.
You know what's strange. After looking at the game again really quick fast forward.
Most, if not all of Cam Newton’s passes were to his left. That’s literally the only place he threw the whole game. Does that remind you about any old Auburn scheme?
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
I'm sorry but....
there isn’t any excuse, preseason, injuries, or otherwise, for the Panthers to allow 24 unanswered points in the 2nd quarter alone against a team that was beaten by a combined score of 61-10 in the first two preseason games.
I didn't watch the game(but I listened) because...
I live outside of the market, but all you have to do is look at the quarter by quarter scoring to see that the Panthers allowed the Bengals to score 24 straight unanswered points.
by Derek Leazer on Aug 26, 2011 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah, but they did.
We scored the first 7 points, in the 1st quarter, then they got 24 in the second, and we had 2 FGs in the 3rd.
I for one am tired of our defense (supposedly reinvented by the genius of Sean McDermott) looking like last year’s, to the extent we make ordinary QBs and offenses look like world-beaters.
I expected what we were told would be an aggressive, blitzing defense. Instead it was the same old read/react, with DL play that was abysmal. Our corners can’t cover fast WRs deep, and our line gets no push and no contain. I can only hope this is a wake-up call, because there was no reason for the team that beat the Giants to ever let the inept Bengals win.
Our O-Line was a lil shaddy tonight
They let pressure get to the QB way to much tonight imo
by rscott94 on Aug 25, 2011 11:56 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
agreed
Although DWill and JStew did fight for a couple of pretty good runs tonight
by rscott94 on Aug 26, 2011 12:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Mackenzy Bernadeau
Should be cut….
"It is now official... Cam Newton is now the face of our franchise.
by Caro2daheart... on Aug 26, 2011 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions
You can't shoot him
That’d be another hole he’d have to fill.
by Jay C on Aug 26, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well played
And rec’d.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
My two cents...
I try not to read too much and get too high or too low when it comes to preseason football but I am now officially concerned. Coming into the year my biggest fear was that our offense would be horrible and our defense would be on the field entirely too much causing them wear down as the games and season went on. However, I’m now more concerned that the defense just won’t be able to get off the field due to them not being able to stop anyone. I don’t really know what to make of our secondary at this point considering we get zero pressure on the quarterback – any QB (Dalton, Henne, etc.) is going to look great when they’re getting zero pressure and know they can just hand the ball off and pick up 4 or 5 yards. Bottom line is our line play (O-line and D-line) has got to get better or we could be looking at the top pick once again in the draft.
I’m sticking by my team just like I sat and watched every horrid quarter of last year but this is a little scary when we look like we did against the Bengals in week 3 of the preseason. I’m holding out hope we can get some things corrected. My opinion hasn’t changed about the potential and progression of Newton which is good. I thought we’d be lucky to get 6 or 7 wins coming into the year but I expected us to have a solid D and that is what’s been most disappointing so far.
One last note, trading a 1st round pick for Everette Brown may be the absolute worst decision of the Fox and Hurney tenure.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.
Hind sight is ALWAYS 20/20
"It is now official... Cam Newton is now the face of our franchise.
by Caro2daheart... on Aug 26, 2011 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Unless there are major changes
Then this team is heading for another rough year. Are defense cant stop the run and cant get off the field. And the offense just isnt complete we have no threat opposite Smith and the defense shut down the TE’s. We are in trouble if we dont get this stuff fixed
One of the more disturbing....
realities of our potential disastrous season is that the Panthers will look all the more foolish for handing out all of those massive contracts to such a pathetic team(as the media and opposing fans will throw in our faces).
.
Embarrased as i sit an watch
Thats all i can say! I spent all day at work talking shit,got off early to make it down to the stadium for that.1st Mackenzy got manhanled,Everette Brown let whoever line up across from him block him inside they just turned the corner whenever they wanted to. Over 100 yds rushing in the first half. Chris Gamble was very rusty Im hoping he just needs to shake that off. Last time he got burned for the score he left for the locker room early.Cam missed some throws as he made his reads, he threw the ball to late on several throws not mention his accuracy was off alot but we knew that. I left the game glad it was only a preseason game.
"I Love It When A Plan Comes Together" Hannibal The A Team
I think one thing is kinda funny
We really considered ourselves to be team full of talent that was largely being let down by the offensive side of the ball. However, a lot of people are now seeing the glaring holes we’ve had for quite a while. We haven’t had a good defensive front, specifically two good DTs, since 2008. And even then, we knew we had no one behind Kemo and Lewis (just look at the Giants game). Well, 3 years later we still don’t have a body in there.
As far as our CB situation is concerned, we struggle because our line struggles. Gamble and Munnerlyn just aren’t skilled enough to contain WRs without a consistent pass rush. That means we also can’t really afford to stack the box, because our secondary isn’t reliable enough to keep WRs in check. About the only position on defense that I’m happy with at the moment is LB and maybe DE. Safety isn’t that bad either, although I wouldn’t call it a strength.
Great article Bill. I just hope Rivera and McDermott can come up with something to help patch this D up. I still am not understanding how the D can go from looking pretty damned good against the giants, to full of holes and springing leaks from every corner against the phins and bengals.
It is beginning to concern me. I was willing to write off the miami game as an aberration. But now the same problems have surfaced for the second week in a row; a week where the team was supposedly “training as though it were a real game”. It is concerning because they did not fix any of the problems they had last week. Once could say they got worse.
I hope the coaching staff can pull this team together, and that Hurney can nab some decent guys off the cut list. But as it stands right now, the optimism from the first game is fading rather rapidly. I’m not ready to call the season totally lost. But it has slapped us all with a good dose of reality.
Proud Member of Cat Scratch Reader and coiner of the (minus Bowers) meme
Problem is...
When you have to go to the waiver wire to find starters it’s never a good deal. Finding depth off waivers isn’t such a problem, but we’re actually looking for people to start in these spots…
But it works in Fantasy Football
why shouldn’t it work in real life #joke
if you make something idiot proof, the world will make a better idiot.
some positives tonite
1. we did better on 3rd down conversions
2. cam’s running highlights will probably make opposing DC’s consider devoting a spy to him, opening up the field. The long run had the potential to be a TD
3. coach stuck with Armanti after he fumbled, and he had a nice return, although it was negated by penalty
4. we played hard in the second half and the bengals did not score
5. TD appears to be fully back, healthy and fast
6. Mare appears to be every bit as reliable as #4; also will be nice having opponents start on the 20 80% of the time
7. Smitty loves his wife
"We want them to play fast, we want them to play physical, we want them to play hard and most importantly we want them to play smart." RR 8-3-11
by revdwl34 on Aug 26, 2011 12:52 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
More positives...
8. James Anderson has a fo-hawk
9. Munnerlyn can prevent TDs by tackling RBs 3 times his size
10. Smitty can still throw a punch
11. Cam had great dental hygiene. His teeth sparkle through his smile, even while he’s rushing for 1st downs.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 5:46 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It looked like a decent team coming off a miserable season, new staff, head coach, rookie qb and its a preseason game.
"You're gonna stand there, owning a fireworks stand, and tell me you don't have no whistling bungholes, no spleen spliters, whisker biscuits, honkey lighters, hoosker doos, hoosker donts, cherry bombs, nipsy daisers, with or without the scooter stick, or one single whistling kitty chasers..." - Joe Dirt
Guys
As much as I hate to say this and it pains me so much, but Cam is officially a bust, here’s why.. A. If you go back and watch the game, every time coach Shula was going over the playbook on the sidelines, Cam was staring off in space looking defeated and having a “why bother” look on his face.. B. he is way too hard on himself, he looked like he was depressed all night. C. The money! I’m sorry but the NFL is to blame here.
There is a reason why Mallett, Gabbert, mcceloroy, and Dalton are all outperforming Cam and it’s because they didn’t get that fat paycheck like Cam did.. I still can’t comprehend why no 1 picks get " guaranteed" money, what other job on earth pays you guaranteed money no matter what happens?!? You give a guy a 22 million guarantee even if he walked out the next day, of course he’s not going to try. the “rookie wage scale” is a joke.
Here is a REAL rookie wage scale.. 1st draft picks get 5 million signing bonus, IF you perform up to par, THEN you will get paid your 50 million bucks.
oh well, here’s to us getting Andrew Luck..
Calm down dude
Cam is a rookie every other time he’s right there with Shula he just might have been mad because this game was his chance to be named the starter and I’m pretty sure he feels like he f’ed that up
by rscott94 on Aug 26, 2011 1:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
your comments annoy me
I also didn’t like Cam coming out of the draft but jeez give him some benefit of the doubt for a few games… I’d say three games is the minimum before you can get really pissed about a player legitimately…
again, this is coming from someone who wanted AJ Green #1. And if you had a problem with how they are paid please try to understand the concept of supply and demand. If everyone could do this, there wouldn’t be so much guaranteed money and agents wouldn’t be needed at all… They just changed it to make it fair, get over it.
I love the fact that the guy who made millions of posts on how awesome Cam would be if we drafted him has given up on him by the third preseason game.
by SlayerGhaleon on Aug 26, 2011 5:18 AM EDT up reply actions 13 recs
lol
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Aug 26, 2011 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I was think the same exact thing
That is just too funny.
In situations like this when things are bad, the easy thing to do is fold up the tent, just pack it up and accept it. But winners and people who are successful realize that when things get tough, it’s an opportunity to define yourself. They realize that in this moment, you can do something great. - Jon Beason
by Tarheel Soldier on Aug 26, 2011 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I wish I could rec this twice.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Added mine, too
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
If you hate to say it
Why did you put it in two threads? If that is all you have to offer then just make it your damn signature. Cam is not a bust. Naanee and LaFell look like busts, but Cam looks like a rookie who is learning the offense and still has not thrown an interception.
Tattoo your name on my arm
I always said my girls a good luck charm.
by Oi2dwrld on Aug 26, 2011 5:52 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I didn't see that at all (Newton "looking defeated" on the sidelines)
A) I’m really gonna have to go back and find those moments. I’ll keep ya posted.
B) He wants to win, and doesn’t accept his current performance as being OK. Again, you’ve piqued my interest in finding any expressions of “why bother” on Cam.
C) umm what? I don’t even know what your point was here.
Nice to know you’ve already thrown in the towel on this season. I guess I’ll see you around draft time next spring, eh?
Newton for '11 ROY!
Walker for '11 ROY!
Biyombo for '11 DPOY!
He did not look defeated
There was a shot I saw of him where Shula was showing him the playbook, and he briefly looked up at something, then back down to what Shula was saying.
By no means would I describe it as defeated.
This comment section has officially been Tater'd.
panthertrain
That comment is ridiculous! How can you call cam a bust after three preseason games? How about supporting your team instead of slating them as soon as we play badly. Cam did ok at best but there were far bigger problems on offense and defense than our rookie qb
by LimeyPanther on Aug 26, 2011 8:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You know, I would flag this as trolling
if I didn’t actually think you believed what you are saying. I am now stupider for having read this.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Aug 26, 2011 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions
You should really check your head before making claims like this
Cam is not a bust. It’s fans like you that give other Panther fans a bad rap. Other teams fans say we are fickle and that we seem to have some sort of entitlement. This is why.
This comment section has officially been Tater'd.
What's funny about it is he's the guy who shoved Cam down everyone's throat for three months.
It was Cam Cam Cam….and now, after three pre-season games, he’s calling him a bust.
Pathetic, if you ask me.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Lol @ labling him a bust because of 1 preseason game.
what the heck……………
Official member of the 2011 Panthers Mafia
Get your facts straight Bernz...it's been 3 preseason games.
Obviously it’s now ok to declare him a bust.
/kidding
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I stand corrected.
But I was meaning because of 1 game, since he wasn’t labled a bust after last week.
Official member of the 2011 Panthers Mafia
I guess you missed the /kidding part? ;-)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Nah i got the kidding part,
I just wanted to get in that he wasnt labled a bust b4 last night.
Official member of the 2011 Panthers Mafia
And 1 preseason game, where he produced a highlight real that's getting played on NFLN and ESPN
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
And had the #4 play of the day on ESPN.
Would have been #3 if the Yankees didn’t become the first team in the history of baseball to hit 3 grand slams in one game.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
It's official.
You are clueless.
"Keep Pounding" -Sam Mills
Follow me on Twitter
by ALAC on Aug 26, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dude it is just preseason
Not even Manning looked that good after 2 preseason games, c’mon seriously.
Follow me on Twitter @manu4t
People don't wanna hear it....
Marcell dareus probably would of had a major impact on this d-line I know it’s over and done with and it’s sink or swim with cam and the status for right now is a flailing for a life preserver. My opinion about newton though and I’ve been saying it since he was drafted his ceiling is Donovan Mcnabb and his floor is Alex smith I don’t think he will be an epic bust at least
by blackdog2485 on Aug 26, 2011 1:17 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
or
why not Patrick Peterson? I believe he wouldve made a bigger impact for us than Cam or Marcell. That would have put a tall CB on the opposite of Gamble. It wouldve helped out the defense more than what Cam has helped the offense
You mean the PP7 that can't crack the Cardinals starting lineup even without DRC there?
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I wasnt aware he was struggling that bad in AZ for the job, I know he looked good in the combine and had good size. I always thought he wouldve been nice across from Gamble a
Yeah…he’s struggling to make the starting lineup, AFTER the Cardinals traded Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie.
A good combine doesn’t make a good NFL star. :-)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
You're right...
He’s a guy who can’t beat out the shutdown corners they have in Arizona for a starting job.
Oh, wait…
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
No, but to imply that he was drafted on sheer athleticism alone is faulty...
The guy could cover in college, plain and simple; having not seen any AZ preseason action, I couldn’t tell you what the issue is now (maybe some of that zone shortcomings he had in college is showing up?), but the implication that he somehow became a top flight prospect because of his combine showing is way off mark.
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
I think his combine had something to do with it…it’s not the only reason he was a top-5 pick, but it did elevate his status higher than it should have been.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
He was in talks of being a top 5 pick prior to the combine; all it did was cement his status as the top CB prospect...
There was never a question of who the top CB prospect was after the college season was over, just a matter of figuring out how close the competition was (for my two cents, I agreed with James that I thought Prince was a better coverage guy all around, but PP7 has far more upside to go along with some pretty good man coverage skills and tackling ability). Even if he had a mediocre combine, peterson would’ve been drafted top 10 at least
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
by Tomthehomer on Aug 26, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
You're probably right...
But, my original response was to this:
I wasnt aware he was struggling that bad in AZ for the job, I know he looked good in the combine and had good size. I always thought he wouldve been nice across from Gamble
Just pointing out that looking good at the combine doesn’t always mean the player will be a superstar.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I know
but the last sentence wink and a nod on that posting seemed to imply that he was vaulted up by his combine more than his on field performance, which would be faulty for a guy who was being touted as the “best CB prospect since Deion Sanders” lol
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
by Tomthehomer on Aug 26, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh no, I wasn’t implying that. I can see why you would interpret it that way though, lol.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
haha it was a little surprising as well...
cause I know you were a major voice during the pre-draft insanity lol
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
by Tomthehomer on Aug 26, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
"I would have to disagree"
~PanthersRoar
Just kidding PRoar. You are the man (I say this with only minimal sarcasm).
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
You can find a DT in free agency, but not a great QB
Most of the time QBs must be drafted and molded. The reason our line is so weak is because we neglected it, and wrapped all our money into a couple other positions. Had nothing to do with drafting Cam.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 5:37 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I can't believe we're saying we should have taken Dareus already.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Aug 26, 2011 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions
What game did you watch?
Cam looked great for a young rookie. Any other QB playing tonight would have been sacked numerous times.
"You're gonna stand there, owning a fireworks stand, and tell me you don't have no whistling bungholes, no spleen spliters, whisker biscuits, honkey lighters, hoosker doos, hoosker donts, cherry bombs, nipsy daisers, with or without the scooter stick, or one single whistling kitty chasers..." - Joe Dirt
Great?
I’d save that word for Dalton he looked great, I don’t care what newton can do with his legs I wanna know what he can do with his arm and in preseason 30% completion isn’t great by anyones standards we drafted him to play qb not an overaized running back to play wild cat it’s not going to get any easier for newton from here on out I was feeling all right about az but now I don’t know any more we pretty much are spending this season developing a raw qb and all I cam prey is that his confidence doesn’t get damaged in the process
by blackdog2485 on Aug 26, 2011 1:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Cam looks like a great passer too
When he has the nice, big pockets, and time to step into his throws like Dalton had. That’s the difference sir. Switch team’s QBs, and we don’t even score 1 TD.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 5:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
oh woopie dalton looked great
How turd did he look in his last preseason games? Don’t throw words like great at dalton just yet. All this negativity literally sickens me. Even if we do shite this year I don’t expect us to draft luck. We live by the cam, we die by the cam and until we’re dead…. Go PANTHERS
by LimeyPanther on Aug 26, 2011 8:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Dalton was 8/19 for 86 yards with a passer rating of 18.6 vs NYJ
Dalton is not great. Our D sucks and he looked great against them.
Against a tough D… 18.6 QB rating.
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
Sorry, his passer rating was 16.4!!!!!!!!
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
His completion % may have been low but
again at least 1, maybe more of his passes were there and dropped or missed, and he had 1 really nice 1 called back for penalty. Also, do the sacks count as incompletions?
Official member of the 2011 Panthers Mafia
I was watching the Panthers vs the Bengals. What game were YOU watching?
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
To be fair, you're biased.
Cam did look good, given the circumstances.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I'm biased? Erm....ok.
Newton looked good as a runner, but he’s wildly inaccurate. He was missing throws all night – and even some of his completions were pretty terrible (he nearly got Smith killed for example, and Olsen had to make a great catch on another one).
But whatever, that debate is done. For better or worse he’s our QB.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
That's the game I watched...
and agree, there’s no debate, stat wise its been a wash at qb, impact wise…no contest
Well Newton is going to have to rely on his running ability to have an impact this year.
Fortunately he’s pretty big or he’d get injured quickly.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
With the O-Line as it is, any QB would need to run
Fortunately, Newton is a good runner. Clausen in those situations would’ve probably been sacked 4-5 times.
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
I agree.
And this isn’t me hating on Clausen. He’s just not a running QB. That’s not his fault, either, but it’s just not his style of play. Cam has an advantage in that he can make things happen with his legs, where Clausen can’t.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I can certainly agree with that.
With neither QB distinguishing themselves passing the ball (whether it be because of the OL or not) only one of the QBs brings an extra dimension to his game, and that is Newton.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
And that’s why I think Newton should start, if you want the honest Capital-T Truth.
I don’t “hate” Jimmy Clausen. I just think that Newton is a better QB, even with his mechanical issue, because he brings so much more to the table with his mobility.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
…and to be frank, Clausen came out of college at the top of his potential; highly polished. Cam is not polished and there can be refinement in his game. That is why we start Newton, IMO.
It's not what you've done but what you are doing that matters.
Maybe next year the Ice Surface at Jobing.com should be frozen with the tears of Winnipeg. - TimmyHate of FiveForHowling to a troll after it was alleged Coyote fans do not know how to ice skate.
by AlabamaJammer on Aug 27, 2011 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh come on man, you know you're biased.
You have claimed repeatedly that you don’t like Newton, and you prefer Clausen. So, you’re biased.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I dislike Newton for everything that I saw tonight - he's a hugely raw QB.
Not someone you take with the #1 overall pick – and ESPECIALLY not someone you start from day 1.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
When we really don't have a better option, you might as well start him.
Yes, he is raw. But, we really don’t have anything better on the roster. We’re rebuilding, so we might as well start the kid who is going to be the future.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
'Cos I've said before I think QBs benefit greatly from being able to sit a year.
It allows them to absorb the play book, adjust to NFL speed and (in Newton’s case) adjust their faulty fundamentals.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
They do, but unfortunately we don't have the benefit of a capable QB to let him do that.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Of course it is ;-)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Jimmy looked awful against their 2nd and 3rd team.
You’re wrong.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Who has Jimmy looked GOOD against?
I think the veteran should start as an early stop gap- neither young guys have looked good. One still looks mediocre at best, and the other has HUGE promise, but needs obvious learning curve time.
I don't agree re: Anderson starting.
Cam can throw. Give it some time. Also, how many screen passes to backs or WRs did he throw? This will be a big part of the offense.
Meanwhile, while he settles in as a passer, it looks like he could break the single game record for rushing yardage if that was the teams ultimate goal for one game. I’ll take that over Derek Anderson getting sacked 14 times. (Yes, DA would have probably been sacked 14 times last night.)
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
by ERL on Aug 26, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So would Jimmy.
Again, I’m not hating on him, but he’s not a running QB. There are few QB’s that wouldn’t have been sacked that many times last night.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
DA
makes quick reads, and seems smart. don’t know about 14 sacks. maybe a couple, but he didn’t have that great of a line in Cleveland, and still produced.
Question: Do we really want Cam, the QB, to be this teams leading rusher? as exciting as that may seem, i don’t like the notion of rehashing falcons old games, watching Vick run all over the field, while their other skilled players got put on the shelf. We didn’t pay D-Will all that money to be a #2. If that’s what’s going to happen, might as well put all of our TE’s in at wide receiver, and everybody just run block for Cam, trade Smitty to a contender, and forget about our #2 wr woes. Cam is the answer to all of our problems
I don’t really care who the leading rusher is, nor do I care about individual statistics.
I think you are being a little melodramatic. Look at Auburn’s skill player’s numbers. Plenty of people contributed.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Agree
on the melodrame, overstating for a reason. Cam running all over the field doesn’t help correct the throwing and timing issues- more practice and coaching does. That’s why I would have him continuing to work out the bugs outside of Game time. Let the vet carry the team for a few weeks- he may surprise, and if not, Cam rolls in week 3 or 4 with more learning under his belt
“To sit on the sideline is to rot.”
~Troy Aikman
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Troy
didn’t have accuracy issues, nor mechanical things to fix…
That's not the point.
The point is…those “issues” are not going to be fixed while sitting on the sideline.
I think that Derek Anderson offers us nothing. Truly nothing. (While Cam/Jimmy are uninjured.)
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
and their quickly being fixed on the field
so far not seeing it. I want to, but don’t. I love your enthusiasm, though. We don’t really know what DA can offer because he doesn’t play. I’d at least like to see him take the field and see, so that at least the question gets answered and we know for sure. I do believe he offers more than nothing or else why sign him?
I think Newton is doing fine for a rookie.
And I added the “for a rookie” because he isn’t playing like a vet yet. I have seen improvement in his games from game 1 to game 3. He still hasn’t turned the ball over with an int or fumble. I see nothing wrong with letting him learn on the job for now.
Official member of the 2011 Panthers Mafia
I don't disagree
but my “preference” would be coach him up outside for a few more weeks- still run snaps with the ones- but we do have a QB who has performed at a good level- he’s not that old either, let’s see what he can do. I’d rather see a game ready Cam, with all the tools, than a not quite ready Cam who’s trying to figure it out on the run. I don’t see anything “wrong” with the other- it’s just different ideas. A more confident Cam, is a greater threat, than a learning Cam.
What I mean is: Derek Anderson was signed in case there was an injury. It really said more to me about Jimmy than anyone else.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
I understand that
but it’s hard to understand why they don’t put him on the field a bit, too. He could be more of an asset than they realize- or not, but not giving him a look is disappointing. Doesn’t appear he’s getting a fair shot for anything, while everyone else is getting plenty of opportunities. He’s not even factored into the equation at all, and he at least has been a starter in this league.
I think from what they have seen of Cam in practice.
They are satisfied with him as the starter. All we have seen is 6 quarters (during which time the defense was on the field seemingly 65%+ of the time) during the preseason.
I just don’t take as much as some from these preseason games. To clarify, I see no reason to look elsewhere for a QB. Playing Derek Anderson would be detrimental to, well, everything, IMO.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
+1000
Why anybody wants to play DA is beyond me. Watch some Cardinals games from last year. Or just about any game DA has ever played in aside from his Pro Bowl year. He is who he is at this point. And that’s fine, that’s fine.
"If ya ain't first, you're last."
- Ricky Bobby's Dad
"There is no evidence that the tongue is connected to the brain."
-Frank Tyger
by KaiserBromley on Aug 26, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
Question: How many games will we win at most if Derek Anderson plays?
Answer: Five? Tops.
Now, if we are going to win only 5 games, let’s progress the rookie while doing so, please.
DA makes no sense to me.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
not advocating he starts for a long time
but at least lets see what he has to offer while these games still dont count. if he’s more than serviceable, that gives Cam a longer learning curve. I wouldn’t wait past game 3 to hand it back to Cam. you should t least kick a tire
and
if he truly has nothing to offer, then it’s a mute point, and Cam is the man from day one…
But why do you want DA over Clausen?
Your main argument is you want Cam to sit in watch. He can sit and watch as Clausen has a chance to up his trade value.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Clausen isn't going to up his trade value.
2 games this season won’t compensate for the horrid 2010 season. It just won’t do it.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
If we lose, then yes. It does.
(Assuming you are suggesting JC start regular season games.)
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Yes, it does.
Because if he looks worse, you deflate his value even more.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
And if you want Newton to sit and watch
why not pull for Jimmy? Worst case, he continues to suck and Cam plays in a few weeks. Best case, he plays the best ball of his career and makes it possible to trade him for a third round pick.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
IMO
they both have learning to do, and need the coaching up for different reasons. I’m pulling for both, either, but they are definitely not ready. Jimmy has shown improvement, but still lacks to be a starting NFL quarterback, but he looks like he’s moving forward. Cam is showing flashes, but enough to start from the get go, I don’t see it. They need more work. I would love to see both step it up, just don’t see them as ready, especially given the flaws at other positions.
Rec to ERL... Spot on!
Cam can throw. Give it some time. Also, how many screen passes to backs or WRs did he throw? This will be a big part of the offense.
Looks to me like the coaches were happy with the Giants game. With a young team, no OTAs, shortened camp, new systems, etc., IMO they’re using the preseason as an extension of training camp… teaching and using film to help young guys learn fundamentals. I’m not predicting playoffs or anything, just that what we’ve seen the past two weeks isn’t as calamitous as it may appear. I’m focusing on the positives and trusting the coaches to put a competitive team on the field at AZ.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
That's it!
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I don't know why I bother. Seriously.
Clausen has looked much more accurate and composed than Newton this pre-season.
Much better than last season too (where he had a shitty coaching staff who quite frankly didn’t give a damn).
But sure, Newton is the messiah.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
We're asking ourselves the same question
I can understand being a contrarian to ‘stand up for the little guy’ (pun not intended) but Jimmy Clausen has not looked as good being the QB of the Carolina Panthers than Cam Newton has. I’m talking about the whole package here… leadership, poise, presence, play-fakes… all of it.
Jimmy is much better at finding a RB when he doesn’t take a shot down the field, but other than that he’s completely inferior. I would love to live in a universe when we could have seen the exact same pass pressure Cam saw last night with Jimmy under center, because he would have thrown the ball away 5-6 times where Cam was able to extend the play with his legs.
by James Dator on Aug 26, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
He'd also have found receivers when Newton found the floor.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
You're assuming he would have thrown it to them.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I'm of course referring to everyone that's eligible to be a receiver.
Not the WR corps that only now is deemed not good enough. ;-)
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
He also found the stands with his passes when Cam found first down… we can go around in circles all day
by James Dator on Aug 26, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Composed?
Really? Accurate, perhaps. But its a lot easier to be accurate when you can throw your little dinks underhanded.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Neither do we.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Because you know you are wrong? Don't ask me.
Without going back and watching again…
The only completions Jimmy had were to RBs on screen passes. You could go in there and do that.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
No I couldn't. If I was wrong I'd give up.
I’m not, but obviously there’s no convincing you kids.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Stop the patronizing BS… it doesn’t suit you.
Calling people ‘kids’ is walking a tight line here.
by James Dator on Aug 26, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
It's only patronizing if you're intending to be patronized.
It’s a phrase. I also use ‘kiddos’. Get over it.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Impossible to work out intentions on the internet… better to not use certain terms at all and avoid the situation all together
by James Dator on Aug 26, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Intending to be patronized?
You never address any points I make. I posed a questions (sort of) with my comment about the screen passes. Why don’t you try to actually add something to the debate instead of calling people kids?
I’m older than you for Christ’s sake.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
It brings the blog down, so I'm going to stop discussing it.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Both sides of the argument are making good points.
The lack of anyone considering these points and acknowleding them is what makes these arguments so fruitless. Drawing a line in the sand an constantly saying your right doesn’t help anything.
That goes for Oldham and the collectifon of staunch pro-Newton (BW, ERL)
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I've conceded that Newton is the starting QB and has a bunch of potential.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
My sarcasm detector has broken.
Not sure if serious, re:
…and has a bunch of potential.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
No I believe tha he believes that.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Aug 26, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
lol, checkdowns are always going to make stats look good. The fact that he threw that one TD to Olsen doesn’t make him an excellent starter. Even Chris Weinke had a throw or two like that.
The fact that Newton can run the ball out in a tough situation makes him a far better choice than Clausen going down every time there is pressure in the backfield.
Proud Member of Cat Scratch Reader and coiner of the (minus Bowers) meme
Even Chris Weinke had a throw or two like that.
When? I never saw one….
/kidding
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
LOL, hey I didn’t post it this time man!
Proud Member of Cat Scratch Reader and coiner of the (minus Bowers) meme
I know...
If I ever saw that puppy like that I would adopt him on the spot though…I couldn’t stand to see him look at me like that.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
He has had more impressive passes than Newton.
But Cam has also avoided the blitz better and made plays with his legs.
Both QBs have had their moments. To disregard either (Newton or Clauseb) is to completly ignore one side of the argument.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Can't agree with that
And really, isn’t it the coaching staff that has decided on Newton? They seem both guys every day in practice. Why can’t people accept the view of the coaches? They KNOW what’s going on.
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
Why can’t people accept the view of the coaches? They KNOW what’s going on.
Because people can’t let go of a specific player over the team as a whole. It’s almost as if they’re so desperate to be right about saying Clausen would be good that they bury their head in the sand when approached with evidence that someone else is better.
(Not saying this applies to you, PanthersFTW. Just saying in general.)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
To be fair...
we’ve been through this debate on a NUMBER of different players, particularly in the last year lol
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
See I don't understand this.
Why bother with the ’you’re wrong’ attitude?
It’s just designed to irritate people.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
So are inexplicable two sentence proclimations.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
specially with the short offseason
I dont believe any of our 4 QBs would have had a significant amount of impact due to the new coaching staff and no mini camps during the offseason.
The more effective method of breaking in a QB,
sitting a year or being tossed to the wolves, is really more determined by the QB. Some do well with sitting while others do well immediately.
"If ya ain't first, you're last."
- Ricky Bobby's Dad
"There is no evidence that the tongue is connected to the brain."
-Frank Tyger
by KaiserBromley on Aug 26, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
That's how I see it
And Newton would fare better by playing, in my opinion
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
And you're EXTREMLY bias pro-Newton and anti-Clausen.
So, you’re kind of calling the kettle black.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I kind of Agree with OldhamA
He’s definitely got talent, and raw skills, and I believe he will be a force in this league, but why not let DA be the stop gap for a few games, while they continue to coach Cam up- I think DA would be a better game manager to start the season, and I dont believe he hurts our chances to win or be competitive. Cam can take over when he’s more ready.
and for all of the DA haters
he was a pro bowler at one time…with the Browns for God’s sake, I believe he can be adequate
I'm not a believer that DA can necessarily recapture said probowl form (he's had plenty of opportunity to do so)...
however, I’m starting to think that it might be beneficial to play him and let Cam work out some of his kinks; think the vet presence might help out at least in the short term
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Agreed
think the pro bowl years are behind him- but the fact it wasn’t that good of a browns team, leads me to believe he could be at the least a serviceable stop gap
I think serviceable sounds about right...
Give him a running game and I think DA will be able to at least keep the offense moving, if nothing spectacular; I just feel like Cam has some kinks that we really shouldn’t be forcing out of him if we can avoid it, but rather give him that extra practice time to work them out and play him when he’s a little more ready
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
I second that
DA was never meant to be here for awhile. Allow him the start while Newton devolps. With how our Oline is playing, I am concerned about injuries to Newton
That Browns team was 9-7 or 10-6 that year I believe
"If ya ain't first, you're last."
- Ricky Bobby's Dad
"There is no evidence that the tongue is connected to the brain."
-Frank Tyger
by KaiserBromley on Aug 26, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Have I ever said I'm not....no.
And are you a part of this conversation? Um…no.
Cam Newton is better than Jimmy Clausen. The team is better with Newton than it is with Clausen. Might as well start Newton and let him develop, because, as we saw last year…we’re not winning shit with Clausen.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
to tell you the truth
not very impressed with either of them. Have never seen what we saw in Clausen, and Cam looks like he’s still got a ways to go, but I do see the up-side, just don’t believe he’s ready to start.
Yikes.
I’m not allowed to become part of the conversation?
I just find it silly to chastise Oldham for being ‘bias’ when your bias is just as prevalent in the opposite direction.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not chastising him.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Semantics.
You used his ‘bias’ to try to discredit the opinion he has. I’m just saying the same applies to you then. Nothing less, nothing more.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Whatever you say man.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Bias: Show prejudice for or against (someone or something) unfairly
Chastise: Rebuke or reprimand severely
How can you say BW is “chastising” him for saying he is showing “bias”? The two are not related definition wise. Pointing out someone has a serious pull in one direction or another is not a chastisement.
Proud Member of Cat Scratch Reader and coiner of the (minus Bowers) meme
we’re not winning shit with Clausen
Or our offensive line.
"Keep Pounding" -Sam Mills
Follow me on Twitter
Come on, be fair to Clausen.
The entire team was horrible last season. Clausen was thrown into a horrible situation, so to say we didn’t win “shit” with Clausen is unfair. Maybe Cam turns out to be the best QB of the two, but regardless, last year wasn’t all Clausen.
He failed to throw for over 188 yards in 10 starts.
He has yet to throw at TD to a WR.
There just wasn’t anything positive to take from his play last season.
BAMF and Hurney evaluated the tape ad naseum. The conclusion they came up with is that they needed help at QB above all else.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
This.
I don’t know why it’s so difficult to see this point.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
He looked awful as a passer.
He looked good as an athlete.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with this
I didn’t see anything good coming out of Cam’s arm. I saw plenty to be excited about regarding his running ability.
But to be an NFL QB sometimes you have to make accurate passes on the run or under durress. I didn’t see that from him at all. It is all well and good that he moves well in the pocket and keeps his eyes downfield, but if the other team knows he isnt going to hit his mark, why bother?
This comment section has officially been Tater'd.
This is what I saw in college.
Teams were terrified of his running ability. Whilst he CAN make all the passes he was never asked to make many NFL type reads and throws because everything was simplified for him – everyone bought the play fake and it left him with a simple throw for a first down.
He’s a project. To be honest he’s actually looked better than I thought he would, but he’s still nowhere near ready.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
He'll learn more by doing
Than by sitting around and watching Clausen or Anderson.
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
Sure he will
You’re just “mad” because it isn’t FAIR that Newton should get everything, including the starting role.
Grow up.
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
I agree with your assessment OldhamA.
Cam still has a long ways to go. Granted, I hope he turns into a Pro Bowl QB in the future, but he’s got plenty of work to do. I think Clausen has improved quite a bit, and hope it continues as well. He was put into a bad situation last year, so people can’t really judge him on that in my opinion.
He did run to his right once and completed to Shockey i think it was.
Official member of the 2011 Panthers Mafia
This is supposed to be a "defense" discussion...
Let’s not bicker and argue about ooo should start over ooo at QB.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Damn..
Why are people already declaring Newton a bust? He’s played in 3 pre-season games, and he’s shown flashes of why he was drafted #1 overall. Why don’t some of you guys have patience?
Panther Pride 'till I die.
I didn't say
He was a bust I’m just saying if he does become he won’t be an epic one what happened to patience with the guy before him? People were so quick to declare him a bust and this year he’s made improvements so you need to ask yourself that I shouldn’t have tto see these “flashes of brilliance” so many people talk about oh wow he ran when the play broke down how awesome how about completing passes and working on that aspect of his game really wish he would sit this season and put him in a better situation later
by blackdog2485 on Aug 26, 2011 1:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Newtonm has played 6 quarters of preseason and Clausen played how many real games last season?
You can’t compare the patience between the 2.
Official member of the 2011 Panthers Mafia
Because people are fickle
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
Good analysis, Bill!
I agree with your concerns. What we also saw, in the last 2 games, is a QB who can be a game changer, in the most positive fashion. When Cam finally “gets it” with his passing game, he will be a real force for us. At the same time, I am becoming concerned about our OLine & Double Trouble. While Deangelo had some great runs, the pressure other teams have brought, have made our line look like a sieve. I can only hope that Otah & Schwartzy get back soon, so that our running game stands a chance. While some may attriibute the issue to Gross, I think he is trying to make up for their absence. As a side note, I really hope we can keep Sutton. It looks like the injury bug is going to stick around for 2011.
15 & 1 or 1 & 15, the Carolina Panthers are my team!! (That’s my new mental chant.)
Carolina Panthers & Cat Scratch Reader fan who also happens to be a grandma.
I won't try to change you, if you don't try to change me
...
Yea, i also think Andrew Luck would be a good choice, but they need to draft someone at cornerback.
This is completely ridiculous.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Aug 26, 2011 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Are you surprised?
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
god this is annoying
If we have a big win and cam plays well it’ll be oohhhh cam your so amazing. Your an elite qb, we love you, your our hero (except for you oldham, no changing your mind). This is BS, either support cam, or if you can’t save your crappy comments for the charlotte observer.
by LimeyPanther on Aug 26, 2011 9:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t think you were here around draft time, but this is the same kid that kept shoving Cam down everyone’s throat saying we should draft him because he was the second coming of the Messiah.
Funny how things change during the pre-season.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
nah i wasnt around then
That would annoy me even more!!! its only pre-season. Jesus give him a chance
by LimeyPanther on Aug 26, 2011 10:51 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
"You're".
And hey, if he plays well he’ll win me over.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Good
Because eventually he will.
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
Most people just see him as a rookie who needs to learn
It’s really not that big of a deal.
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
LOL
No, I’m not.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Aug 26, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow.
Weren’t you the one two weeks ago talking about how Cam was going to be the best QB ever to play the game?
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Weren’t you the onetwo weeks agofor the last 5 months talking about how Cam was going to be the best QB ever to play the game?
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
what kind of hellish nightmare did i wake up too?!
We’re doing well before I had to sleep! This is hideous. We lost to the bungles :(… Unhappy face
by LimeyPanther on Aug 26, 2011 4:29 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
See why I thought we should have tried to turn DWill's contract into a D-line?
I know he’s arguably our best player. But replace his nearly 9 million/year contract with 2 stud 4mil dlinemen, and the Bengals would NOT have scored 24 pts.
Had we contained the run, they might not have scored at all.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 5:07 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
The way Gamble looked we could do the same with his contract.
Maybe we should have kept Marshal after all.
Tattoo your name on my arm
I always said my girls a good luck charm.
Blasphemy.
Richard Marshall has always played like hot garbage. Addition by subtraction there.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed
Marshall was a waste of roster space for his price…couldn’t even tackle anymore!
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
For his price I agree
I will reserve my judgement until I see how much we wind up paying for his replacement. I admit I was being a bit reactionary because I have a tummy ache and I didn’t even earn it by drinking my fool ass off last night.
Tattoo your name on my arm
I always said my girls a good luck charm.
I'm not sure how much I'd pay for him at this point regardless...
Marshall looked like he had the world in front of him first two years in the league, and then once he was given full-time responsibilities he punted it into the stands; Where he gets this idea that he’s worth upper-tier money is beyond me lol
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Haha!
Yes we will. Haven’t really thought about that yet. I got a tree fiddy saying Dick gets smoked for a TD.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
If he does, can we start calling him Dick Smoke? That would be epic.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
by BW Smith on Aug 26, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
Yes. Without question, we can.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Were you in the game thread when we started calling him Dick?
One of the funniest moments from last year. Read it here if you haven’t already.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I wasn't, but that is pretty damn funny.
That was about the same time I started hoping that he was NOT re-signed.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Reply to Oi2dwrld... I'm sorry you have a tummy ache.
Just put d lime in d coconut, drink it all up.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Who?
Should we have lost D-Will so we could have overpayed Barry Cofield or Brandon Mebane? No thanks
by James Dator on Aug 26, 2011 6:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If we're going to overpay guys, why not do it at positions of need?
We’re not just collecting the best talent we can find. We’re trying to build a team… Which as we are learning, requires spreading talent around the field.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 7:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’d rather give $8 million per to a player top 10 at his position than $4 million each to a pair of JAGS.T
Agreed
If there was a great talent out there we could have signed to make our team better, then maybe I would have been all for it, but to just let one of our very best players walk in FA, just to sign whoever is available is just silly. We signed All of our young FAs and we still have about $8 mil to throw at FAs as they are cut from rosters around the league.
In situations like this when things are bad, the easy thing to do is fold up the tent, just pack it up and accept it. But winners and people who are successful realize that when things get tough, it’s an opportunity to define yourself. They realize that in this moment, you can do something great. - Jon Beason
by Tarheel Soldier on Aug 26, 2011 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Why can't we have both?
Not give too much money to DWiill and sit on that money until someone we really want is available?
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with ya
Losing D WIll to FA right after we lost Peppers the same way would be stupid.
No, he's probably not
He doesn’t freak out like fans do, nor does he have misplaced hope. I’d wage the front office knew that they would struggle at the DT spot, but that doesn’t mean throwing out common sense to fill a gap with overpaid talent.
DeAngelo Williams is making $2.6 million more than Barry Cofield… the DT group was great in the draft this year, but terrible in FA which lead to stupid contracts like Cofields for middle of the road DTs.
Long term it was the right move, even if it hurts now
You sound awfully certain about this
I’m just throwing out opinion. I partially understand wanting to lockup DeAngelo. But if we weren’t already so stacked at RB, I’d understand it more.
Now if he suffers another season ending injury, like he has the last 2 years… Then it wasn’t the right move. But here’s to hoping he’s a perennial ProBowler for years to come.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
The biggest mistake was entering this offseason so weak at DT… they tried to repair it through the draft, but this free agency hasn’t been kind.
FWIW Gantt intimated last night that the Williams’ and some of the other salty-dog vet DTs aren’t really returning calls because they don’t like camp. If this is true we might see some help when practice wraps.
by James Dator on Aug 26, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't remember last years injury being season ending
While we did put him on IR, he could have come back a few weeks after it happened. I still believe the idea was to let him rest an extra few months so he would come back stronger this year.
We were always going to resign DWill. We just needed to know where the cap was going to be. There was no point in playing him the last half of the season, better to let him rest and heal and let the back ups get some field time.
Tattoo your name on my arm
I always said my girls a good luck charm.
Yea, last year he was placed cause there was no reason to risk further injury in a lost season
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
I wouldn't necassarily have gone out a signed guys for this season
but I certainly agree with the sentiment. Having the money to look for a good DT in the next two years wouldn’t hurt. Especially when you have very capable backups in Sutton and Goodson (and to an extent Vaughn).
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
They kind of knew they would have more money after signing Kalil's contract.
They could have signed 1 or 2 players for that 4 mil each anytime, they must have not seen anyone worth signing yet.
Official member of the 2011 Panthers Mafia
They also knew by the time they signed Kalil, no decent FA's would be left
I hope we go get somebody like Pat Williams. But I’m scared now they might trade another draft pick out of desperation.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
If we had worked out Kalil’s contract before the FA period began we would have been able to afford a DT, but his huge FT cap hit was holding up a lot of $$$.
D-Will and his contract are not to blame here. If anything it is Kalil and Hurney for not getting his extension done earlier (not that I am assigning them blame, just pointing that out). We would have had the necessary funds had that happened.
Proud Member of Cat Scratch Reader and coiner of the (minus Bowers) meme
Fua
I think in years to come Fua will turn into a good DT but watch the film and you will see something if you can turn his shoulders you can push him out of the play. As long as he is squared up hes hard to deal with but as soon as you redirect him to the side he is done on that play. Watch and see!
Why soooo down on Cam???
When he’s had a nice, clean pocket like Mr Dalton had, he delivered daggers, on target. But if Dalton, Mallett or any other rookie had this kind of crap protection, would they be able to constantly avoid the sack while keeping their eyes downfield? Would they be scampering for 30 yard 1st downs and 16 yard TDs?
Cam is learning to step into his throws (which was always going to take more than 3 preseason games), behind a line that isn’t giving him enough room to. That’s NOT his fault.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 5:26 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 7 recs
Couldn't agree more
Rec’d! In all honestly, I’m just happy to have a bigger problem than the QB position. I feel good about Cam. It’s going to take some time.
For all those in full on “doom and gloom” mode because we lost to the Bengals… really?? You all act like the Bengals showed up on the field in wheelchairs and still won. That team still has a lot of talent intact. Their O-line is a very good run blocking line (conversely, we’re a bad run blocking D-line). Put those two together and what do you get?? Play action city.
If a team can shut down the run on them, it’s going to look very familiar to us over here (basically all of 2010 for us).
by Fernando De La Cruz on Aug 26, 2011 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
rec'd and rec'd.
Some sensibility is nice to read.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Aug 26, 2011 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Also rec'd and rec'd
Enough already
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
I feel good about him to
If he was planting his feet with solid protection and then missing his targets, I’d be worried. But that’s just not the case. That might take a entire season to get more natural for him… But in the meantime he’s going to be making plays with with his athleticism.
When it all comes together, if we can put a better team around him… watch out. He could be very special.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just like The Jimmy last year.
I’m not turning this into a “CLAUSEN SHOULD START” flamewar (mainly because that ship has sailed) but Clausen faced the exact same issues as last season.
Fortunately with Newton, he has the legs to turn some of that bad protection into good plays.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
The big difference is, this is only Cam's 2nd start
Newton’s doing more already in the face of pressure, then Jimmy did even after a full season of experience.
STEVE SMITH!
This.
Cam is better now than most of us (if not all) thought he would be at this point.
We’re looking at a 5-6 win season regardless (or 3-4 if we don’t get some help on the D-Line), so why not let Cam take his lumps now and let him start from game 1?
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I guess I just want to give Jimmy one more chance.
In the short-term, it might hurt a little, but we may actually get something for Clausen. Long-term, what’s the hurt? Whats a couple games to Cam to see if Jimmy has anything worth being a NFL QB? If not, he’s ran out of chances and it’s Cam’s for the fkreseeable future.
In the end, I’m a-ok with whatever happens.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
But how many chances should the guy get? Seriously? He’s had 10 games as a starter during the regular season. A few more games isn’t going to up his value that much.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Yes, we did. And if I recall correctly, it didn't work out so well.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Matt Moore also wasn't a rookie at the time.
Clausen was a rookie last year, and shouldn’t have played much to begin with.
One more.
That’s all I ask. New(ish) team, lets see what he can do. Honestly, how much could it hurt?
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
If I wouldn't feel bad about taking your money, I'd wager that he'll look just as bad as he did last year.
When he gets under center, he looks afraid to move the ball down field. It’s a mental thing with him. He needs to go to a team that has a dink and dunk style offense, not a team that’s being built to throw the ball down field. It’s just not a fit for him.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
That's not fair
He made some great plays last week that I would have never expected. And I am an admitted Clausen “hater.” He put in some work in the off season and looks much more professional out there.
But I still do not think he should start. At this point he should sit and learn, and then maybe get us our third rounder back next year.
Tattoo your name on my arm
I always said my girls a good luck charm.
Clausen does look improved somewhat
But not enough to start over Newton. Clausen’s numbers look like a rookie, not a 2nd year player.
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
If he starts against the Steelers...
Based on how our O-Line looks, it will probably not go well for him—even against the Steelers’ backups
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
How about we let the coach make his decision and try to be a fan instead of trying to be coaches?
Official member of the 2011 Panthers Mafia
You need to show upside to get more "chances"
Cam is showing that he’s an inexperienced rookie from a spread offense. But he’s also doing things that make your head turn. Jimmy dinking, dunking and sliding for a whole season just isn’t very promising.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
But letting a rookie QB play immediately is silly
Look at those losers Troy Aikman and Ben Roethlisberger.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Hanlon's Razor
I don't know about Aikman, before my time (although I gather he was terrible his rookie season), but Roethlisberger,
much like Sanchez, leaned on his running game and defence. He was asked to do the bare minimum.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Exactly why I picked the two... both ends of the spectrum.
Big Ben had a great team around him, Aikman was part of a rebuilding process. Dallas went 1-15… Aikman ends up a Hall of Famer. He says that first year is what made him.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Hanlon's Razor
Oddly enough, PIT went 15-1.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
And Dallas' one victory caused Washington to be 15-1.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Hanlon's Razor
Doesn't help if he can't hit the broad side of a barn.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
At least he’s willing to throw it to the barn, instead of at the wagon 15 feet in front of it.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Well he might try, but he's missing the barn by about 15 feet.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
But he's taking the chance.
Instead of dumping off to the wagon or throwing to the farmer’s wife on the veranda.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Good for him. Of course he's failing miserably, but at least he's taking a chance, right?
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Given that Clausen fails miserably by not trying...it's good that Cam is trying.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Why are you so down on Clausen?
Really? Bc of last season? He’s looked much improved so far this preseason. While he hasn’t made any huge plays besides the nice throw to Olsen for a TD, he’s looking much more comfortable in the pocket. Cam has a long ways to go, and Clausen still has plenty of growing to do.
I'm sorry but he has looked pretty much the same to me.
I’m not down on him, I don’t hate him. That’s just my interpretation of what has transpired with #2 on the field so far.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Yeah...you're right. But the fruit is too low...
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I set 'em up, you...
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
yeah...because of last season
One of the worst seasons in the history of the NFL for a QB, rookie or not.
You can say he was in a bad situation all you want…but the fact is that he looked exactly the same in start 10 as he did in start 1…terrible. And he still looks scared to throw the ball further than 15 yards.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
And when he does, it is often picked off--or almost picked off.
Like the one long pass he had last night that bounced off the DB’s hands.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
When you keep seeing the same tendencies that we all saw in him last season, it lends credence to the fact that the guy hasn’t improved much at all from last year. Does he look a little better? Sure. But if we are looking for a starting QB for this team (which obviously we are), Clausen has shown nothing to indicate he will play exactly the same he played last year.
Everyone wants to say give Newton the year off, because he will play better next year. Well, shouldn’t the same logic apply to Clausen? A guy who has started games. By several peoples estimations on here, Clausen should be elite right now because this is year 2 for him, and he has had time to acclimate to the game.
Well, he looks far to similar to last year. He has shown nothing to suggest that he is a starting caliber of QB.
Proud Member of Cat Scratch Reader and coiner of the (minus Bowers) meme
As a defense, you can gameplan someone who doesn't take chances into a loss
The only way our team is going to win is if people are given opportunities to make plays.
Failing miserably is putting 13 points on the board?
If our defense tried that would have been enough to win.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Last week
The complaint was Newton didn’t score point.
This week he leads the team to 13 points and now he’s failing miserably.
See how he can’t win with some people?
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
Yeah.
I’m just going to stop worrying about what other people think. The fact is Cam is going to be our QB for some time. His success will dictate how long that is.
Some people will still be picking him apart when he’s holding up the Lombardi.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
It's a good thing he can then
We need to chill with the accuracy thing. That’s already been debunked
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
Cam will improve as he gets used to everything—new system, speed, defensive coverages.
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
He will instantly improve, dramatically, when and if our OL can form and sustain a pocket.
I know this thread is about Cam, but the heated discussion should be about how the play of the OL can be improved.
RBs can’t create their own holes, CBs can’t cover on deep plays when there’s no pass rush to hurry the QB, and our QBs can’t complete their own passes at an acceptable rate when they’re always rushed and scurrying to avoid sacks.
We judge the skill position players harshly, but it’s all won and lost in the trenches, and it’s been our poor OL and DL play that makes everybody else look bad.
Hardy, Otah, Schwartz, Balmer? Will their playing be enough? We better hope so, or make a big move in FA, or when the cuts come.
I thought Cam looked better...
and seems to look better with every game. Previously a huge Clausenite, I now see the potential we have with Cam. My two biggest concerns are 1) Wide receivers not getting open/catching the ball. (and no real #2 WR), and 2) Defensive line getting run over by oh…anyone that wants to run it seems. Backfield not looking too great either. Gamble getting burned by AJ was disheartening. I think our LBs and RBs are the best/deepest positions on the team.
BAMFthers Mafia FTW!
I'd add...
…that TE is a position of strength now, as well.
As for WRs not getting open/catching the ball, a fair amount of that can also be attributed to Cam Newton. He’s not getting through his reads of the defense fast enough. Thus, as players come open, the defense closes the gap in coverage before Cam can take advantage of it. That said, this has been enough of a problem for multiple seasons now with our WR2’s and WR3’s that it’s not all on the QB. These guys aren’t always running good routes or selling the DB on overcommiting before making their breaks. Even Steve Smith has had trouble getting open. And, unfortunately, even when they do…sometimes Cam throws the ball over their heads or in the turf at their feet. So, it’s a combination of things. Everyone’s responsible.
My two cents,
—Neil
RELEASE. THE. KRAKEN.
No wonder Hardy won the starting job while being out injuries! I’m not saying he will right the ship by himself, but any help at all on that D-Line is sorely needed. Our rush defense is the single most terrifying aspect of our entire team to me right now.
Not Cam and his “Back Foot Boogie.”
Not our secondary (this was Gamble’s first game back ALL YEAR; keep in mind he hasn’t played in a game since November ’10).
Not our WRs (they’ll catch the ball more consistently when Cam improves his throwing mechanics, simple as that).
McDermott and Eric Washington (had to look him up) have a TON of work to do. I do not envy these men.
With all that said, I’m still rather upbeat. We’re better than we were last year, and our quarterback already has a lot of good qualities that we simply didn’t have behind center last season. Who knows, maybe the preseason trend from last year will reverse itself (remember when teams couldn’t keep our D-Line out of their backfield last preseason?).
Newton for '11 ROY!
Walker for '11 ROY!
Biyombo for '11 DPOY!
I'm looking forward to Andrew Luck next April
If we can’t beat the Bengals, if the only time we can even hold them is during punt and kick returns, I think that #1 pick is in sight again. The big knock on Cam going into the draft was accuracy: well, guess what — 6/19, 1/9 to our best receiver. This is the person everyone wants leading this team on Day 1.
I have never been a huge fan of Derek Anderson, but he has pocket presence (if they maintain a pocket) and can throw the ball. Can that be said of any other QB on the roster? While Derek starts, let Cam take some time with Shula, and, perhaps, by week six or so he may learn to get the ball in the general vicinity of a receiver. Trade Jimmy to Indy for a 7th if they’ll give that much; maybe he can learn enough from Kerry and Peyton to take over in about 5 or 6 years when Manning decides to retire.
The Panthers’ pre-season bodes well for a "Luck"y 2012.
When your center us pushed back as fast as your QB can drop back
Then yeah, you’re going to struggle planting your feet and passing. I can’t believe people are freaking out, and comparing him to Dalton and other rookies… Who are throwing from beautifully crafted pockets, with tons of time.
If you want to see these other rookies struggle like Cam… Look know further than Cincy’s last 2 games, when they face real D-lines.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 7:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
How dare you defend Cam
A number #1 selection who went to a team that has problems beyond just quarterbacking should never ever struggle especially after 4 weeks of coaching instruction. He’s had 3 preseason games and if he isn’t in midseason form by now he never will be. Honestly when they cut the team down to 80 players next week, I hope Cam is the first person they cut. Somebody call Stanford and let his holy neck beardness that he better starting looking for a house in Charlotte but only to rent at first in case he sucks in the preseason because we will cut his ass if he does.
by sperk on Aug 26, 2011 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Will people stop making these ridiculous claims?!?
We have hitched our wagon to the Cam Newton train. We are not drafting a QB #1 overall for quite awhile. If we are picking first again next year, I assume we are going for best DT available.
This comment section has officially been Tater'd.
I dunno Tater, there aren’t many DT’s worth a crap in the next class. I’d wager we go OL next year.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Was just a blind speculation by me
No idea what the next draft class looks like at this point.
But yes, we clearly need to start looking for the future on the OL as well. I could see us going about 4 different ways with the #1 pick right now. All that is clear to me is that we don’t need a RB or LB.
This comment section has officially been Tater'd.
Definitely agree.
Depending on where we pick, we could be looking at Matt Kalil, Justin Blackmon, Alshon Jeffery, or any other player that steps up this year.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Context buddy.
I’m saying we don’t need to draft a RB, LB, OR QB.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
We probably go...
…with a CB or OL in next year’s draft. Then look for a DT in the 2nd round. We’re probably going to be picking pretty high. So, whoever’s available in the 2nd will hopefully be the equivalent of a 3rd rounder in any other year at the DT position. Both lines need help, regardless. And the secondary.
If we end up picking 1st again (I don't expect it, but it could happen), we can parlay that into the
“Great Who Wants Luck” bidding war. We’ll walk away with at least still a high first along with probably 6 or 7 picks for 2012 and 2013 First, second, and third rounds. See Harbaugh beg. See Hurney smile.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
You guys are damn ridiculous with the talk or picking an OL or DT next year.
We’re picking Andrew Luck. Enough said.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Aug 26, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, that is if he declares for the draft.
He might want to go back to school and get his PhD to avoid coming to Carolina, since we’re so terrible.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Maybe he just becomes Amish.
Anything’s better than being a Panther.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Aug 26, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
True.
He could become Amish, join a cult, start a techno band, become a swimsuit salesman in Alaska…anything but playing for the Carolina Panthers.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I would love to hear some Amish Techno.
Tonight we’re gonna raise the barn!!!
Tattoo your name on my arm
I always said my girls a good luck charm.
He's already got the beard
All he needs now are the bib overalls
In situations like this when things are bad, the easy thing to do is fold up the tent, just pack it up and accept it. But winners and people who are successful realize that when things get tough, it’s an opportunity to define yourself. They realize that in this moment, you can do something great. - Jon Beason
by Tarheel Soldier on Aug 26, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
You missed the sarcasm. ;-)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Know we HAVE to go after Andrew Luck
That’s trade bait heaven!!!
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Go away.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
by ERL on Aug 26, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
Becoming one of my favorite things to say recently on here.
"If ya ain't first, you're last."
- Ricky Bobby's Dad
"There is no evidence that the tongue is connected to the brain."
-Frank Tyger
by KaiserBromley on Aug 26, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
It may be harsh. And I kind of feel bad about it now.
But don’t come on here talking about Andrew Luck. (Unless of course you are making fun of his beard, or his Legos or what not.)
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
No don't feel bad.
When that kind of Charlotte Observer trash is brought onto here, its worth it. I only use it when someone makes a serious Luck reference or spams the hell out of one of their ideas or makes an 0-16 reference.
"If ya ain't first, you're last."
- Ricky Bobby's Dad
"There is no evidence that the tongue is connected to the brain."
-Frank Tyger
by KaiserBromley on Aug 26, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
That's the right term
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
Pretty much sums up my feeling Bill. Cam is who we thought he was. Defense however looked like a utter mess. i am hoping Beason and Hardy along with Balmer and whoever we can pick up can turn us into a solid defense. It is going to be hard for this offense and Cam to ever evolve if the Defense gives up 10+ play drives every time the other side gets the ball. One bright spot was the turnover and even that was more Bengals then us. Did we even register a sack? We are going to be aggressive right? That is all we have heard from RR. Well last night the Bengals aggressively ran in down our throats. Im not ready to write this season off as another 2-14. First pick in the draft type season. I think we can and will improve but for a team and franchise who had so much momentum and buzz i thin k the past two games pre season or not has let out some of the air in the sails.
Proud member of the Panthers Mafia!
Saving The Environment One Green Comment at a Time
We blitzed a total of 2 times: result? One delayed LB sack, and 1 QB hurry, for an INC.
We’ve been promised by coaches and players that our D will be aggressive and heavy into blitzing.
I think it’s apparent that they don’t want to put on film, for Arizona and GB to study, just how those blitzes are designed. Rocky Road in practices; plain vanilla in the exhibition games.
by bigdavis on Aug 27, 2011 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hope you're right
I think I was expecting too much from the last game. I read somewhere that Rivera was treating the previous game as a regular season match so I was expecting some exotic blitzes.
If they are holding off on letting the defense loose, do you guys think the D has had enough practice to pull off the defensive scheme in real games? I would think they would say the hell with keeping things underwraps and practice their new offensive and defensive plays every opportunity they have.
They can do that in practice...
you see it every year in preseason though; like someone else was pointing out, we can “prepare” for this game like its a regular season game, but that doesn’t mean we have to gameplan like it’s one. There’s no point in showing off your playbook in preseason, especially in a shortened year like this; better to stay vanilla and work on fundamentals (which, evidently we have some work to do lol) than try and show off our playbook early on (like we kind of did with the Giants…that was a little surprising for a first game)
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
by Tomthehomer on Aug 27, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
On the money and rec'd, BigDaddy. Anything other than the Giants game is totally going to teaching fundamentals,
evaluating talent, and staying healthy. To believe anything else is to believe we’ve been lied to, which I don’t believe I believe.
Where’s Jamie? I miss her. She always settles the nerves a bit around here.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Why on earth is Mackenzy Bernadeau still starting?
The right side of the O-line is horrible. I know we are waiting for Otah, but Mac couldn’t hold his line.
if you make something idiot proof, the world will make a better idiot.
Obviously he's better than the other guys on the roster. Which is a terrifying thought
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Yes it is.
And, that’s what I’ve been trying to tell my son. If we had a better option, I’m sure the coaching staff would have them on the field. That is a very scary thought.
"Keep Pounding" -Sam Mills
Follow me on Twitter
Actually, Duke Robinson has looked good in very limited duty.
Each of the last 2 games, he had a run play where he created space by blocking 2 defenders, getting to the second level effectively.
I’d say MacBern has never SEEN the second level, nor know of its existence.
by bigdavis on Aug 27, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL'd and rec'd.
You’re traveling through another dimension — a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That’s a signpost up ahead: your next stop: the Second Level!
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Fixed that for you, Oldham...
Obviously he’s better than the other HEALTHY guys on the roster. Which is a terrifying thought.
MacB won’t be starting at RG unless Schwartz can’t go. Give the Schwartz a shot in the ass and put him on the field, but not until the games actually count.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Ok, breaaaaaath peoples...an east coast earthquake and a Hurricane named after my grandmother may be the end of the world, but this is not....
Concerns: D-line (and in particular, interior line) is not getting any push on run plays, although I think McClain has shown that if he develops a little “punch” he has that quick first step to become an effective pass rusher. Our pass rush actually was able to get some decent pressure on plays, but give Dalton some proper credit for unloading the ball within 2 and a half seconds on a great many plays. Was it concerning that there were guys open short consistently? Sure…but quite frankly I’d be more concerned if we were showing off our entire defensive playbook in a preseason game moreso than I am with how they played last night. Blitzing schemes don’t work if you don’t catch the other team by surprise, and last night’s game was certainly meant to get a look at the DL more than anything (at least, that’s my take on it since it was a very vanilla scheme being run). On the offense, it’s going to be nice getting back at LEAST Schwartz or Otah (preferably both), since a great majority of the pressure being applied was a result of the right side of the line getting shoved back on every play.
Which brings us to the offense. We should ask ourselves this: We have 2 potential all pro RBs in the backfield, a running rookie QB, and a line that (when healthy) is one of the best run blocking lines in the league….are we realllllly going to have such a lopsided pass:run ratio when the regular season starts? My money is on “No”. This offensive gameplan was to get Cam as many gametime reps passing as possible, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. For sure, 6/19 ain’t gonna cut it, but there are correctable things going on that can easily bring that stat line up. For starters, Cam himself has admitted that he needs to utilize his checkdowns more when the medium/deep ball isn’t there. Also, next time he gets a lineman pushed back into him I’m pretty sure he’s going to start running back and around to get some space so he can make a proper throw. These are things that, while ugly to watch, can and will be corrected with practice reps and good film viewings. WRs certainly need to step it up, and I’m still a little miffed that we went to the SD pool rather than picking up a more proven WR when they were looking for #2 competition, but its OK….practice will make perfect! I don’t mean to excuse some terrible line play and an uninspired offensive showing, but I couldn’t tell you with a straight face that that game was planned out like a normal game; It’s an evaluation game, with a very vanilla gameplan (you can still practice like it’s a real game with a vanilla gameplan) that was/is intended to see who is doing what, and who deserves playing time over who, simple as that. I, for one, am actually kinda confident for the regular season; there are pieces in place for something good to happen, they just need to be put in the right order…kinda like a jigsaw puzzle.
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
by Tomthehomer on Aug 26, 2011 8:21 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I forgot to add....
Gamble hasn’t played in a game in almost 8 months; remember how TD was talking about “adjusting to game speed” again last week? Yea, I’m pretty sure Gamble is doing that right now. He’s not an old fogey, and I think we’ll see him performing like he can once he shakes some of the rust off and gets back to full speed!
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Wow, you mean I'm not the only one that feels that way?!
Great addition to the team James. Love it.
It's not what you've done but what you are doing that matters.
Maybe next year the Ice Surface at Jobing.com should be frozen with the tears of Winnipeg. - TimmyHate of FiveForHowling to a troll after it was alleged Coyote fans do not know how to ice skate.
Auburn Poster
Hey guys, first post, but been reading for about 3 months here. Cam looked like this for the first 6 games at Auburn. I don’t want to make a direct comparison of College Ball to NFL, but a comparison of Cam learning an offense/coaches learning what Cam can do. It really took a while for our coaches to mold the offense around him. Once this happened, he threw A LOT better with a 141 qb rating. He IS a good passer. Invest the games and time with him, and you’ll get a nice return for years. For those who didn’t watch every Auburn game, he was not a heisman quartback until midseason.
Also
The Carolina WRs need to learn downfield. Check out the replays of his runs.. 20 yd runs will turn into 60 yards runs.
by Lee Moreland on Aug 26, 2011 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions
There are exactly two "shutdown" corners in the league.
Nnamdi and Revis. That’s it. No one else can make that claim. You have a guy who we think might become a “shutdown” corner (Peterson) however, there is still only two. In the entire league.
So excuse me if I give Gamble a bit of pass. He knows how to play any coverage asked of him and knows how to play it well. He knows how to tackle good and correctly. So, he’ll occasionally get burned by the best and most athletic recievers in the league. Who cares? So will the other 29 top corners in the league.
Gamble is far from the best, but he isn’t someone we have to worry about. Munnerlyn may not have the size to be a “shutdown” corner, but as far as I’m concerned he’ll be good enough to stop the recievers enough and strong enough to make the tackle when he needs to. We need to worry less about the corners and more about the pass rush. That’s where the problem lies.
+1
although I’m avoiding jumping to too many conclusions until we see the AZ game, where I’m sure they’ll be switching up the defensive planning quite a bit (or “opening up”)
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Both lines concern me
Where were the running lanes for the RB’s? I’m glad Cam can scramble, but in the end will we be happy with 6 for 19 for 75 yards and 1 amazing touchdown? 35% completion rate is not going to cut it, and both of our lines are getting pushed around like school girls. Not to mention the CB’s…if the Bengals QB threw better deep balls, they had 3 more opportunities with WR’s having 3-5 yard separation, but thankfully overthrew them by a mile. Guarantee Freeman and Breesy hit those…Giants must be going to be pretty bad, but that’s little consolation at the moment
Giants absolutely wrecked the Bears this past week
so no dice on that one buddy.
"If ya ain't first, you're last."
- Ricky Bobby's Dad
"There is no evidence that the tongue is connected to the brain."
-Frank Tyger
by KaiserBromley on Aug 26, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, i saw that
go figure…hate when someone goes and proves your theories wrong, bummer
It's a Pre-season game... HELLO!!!
As much as I didn’t like the game last night I won’t place too much into it. Yes the offensive line looked bad but most of it M. Bernadeau but we knew that. Our starting line for the season won’t have him on it. The defensive line looked horrible, but we knew that already. That’s why we signed Balmer. The secondary looked bad because there wasn’t a pass rush, and it was our top CB’s first game back. Lastly Cam was Cam… a rookie who hasn’t turned the ball over, i call it ball control.
If I was S. McDermott (our DC) I wouldn’t show my complete game plan in the pre season. We seen parts of it in the first game because we wanted to start off on a good note. I echo the same sentiment for Chud.
Beason and Hardy out (I do believe we’re going to need a bigger DE other than Hardy), Blamer was signed (I do believe we should sign another fatty also), I liked the way Godfrey tried to spark the defense, and Davis played lights out.
The offensive game plan was to hit the wideouts exclusively… we know Cam can hit the tight-ends.
"It is now official... Cam Newton is now the face of our franchise.
by Caro2daheart... on Aug 26, 2011 9:04 AM EDT reply actions
I agree with your post, and assessment
But on the O-line when was the last season the whole OL stayed healthy. our depth is not very serviceable at this point. understanding that it was a preseason game, and alot was going wrong, fumbled punt, penalties, passing accuracy, etc., I agree with the positives you note. TD looks like he’s back in form, and was impressive side line to sideline, and solid with all of the solo tackles, and Godfrey was bringing the hits.
Still going to be concerned…
The same people on here slamming Cam would also bust on him for playing well
and saying stuff like “wait until the regular season when he plays REAL defenses”, etc. He is a rookie, they arent playing with a full squad, we have a new coach, a new playbook, and new OC.
Get over it. He will improve. He didnt get drafted #1 without a reason.
Follow me on Twitter @manu4t
I want him to play well
I’d like to see Jimmy play well. I’d like the defensive line and offensive line to play well. I’d like to see smitty catch some passes…
Hardy is big enough.
He’s 2" taller, and 2 lbs. heavier than Charles Johnson.
More to the point, he’s 36 and 21 lbs heavier than Norwood or Brown, and 3" taller than either. And he pursues the run waaay better.
Big difference maker.
I was just wanted to that Gamble being burnt a few times by AJ Green
shouldn’t be a shocker. The guy is going to be a monster, and a good reciever is probably always going to get at least 1-2 big ones in…
Everything else has been said , but I wonder why our return teams can’t complete a return without a penalty? We are certainly not in a position to give away any yardage to start a drive.
I liked that Cam had a few “almost” plays that would have been great. (Hitting Smitty in the corner for the almost TD and the 3rd down strike thrown on his last series called back by penalty) Hopefully those will translate into “made” plays during the season.
It’s sad that it appears that our OFFENSE will have to carry our DEFENSE
by carolinapillpusher on Aug 26, 2011 9:15 AM EDT reply actions
I want to know that too.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Evaluation mayhaps?
See which corners need help, who can do what; I can’t say for certain, but the gameplan employed for this game seemed to me to be based on nothing more than evaluating the positions of question, rather than an actual regular season game plan (I mean, I think we had more varied playcalling in the NYG game than we did last night lol).
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
I could be totally off base and we really could be this bad lol
but it just…didn’t look like a game where the coaches were planning to show off their game planning abilities, but rather see how well many players would do playing “on their own” i.e. making the DL get the pressure, make the CB’s play their men one on one, make Cam throw it an severely lopsided amount of times in comparison to called run plays.
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Unfortunately, that's what we thought last year
I can still remember the gleeming hope we had last season. Even during the preseon when we didn’t score an offinsive TD, everyone was sayingm, well maybe we’ere just holding our cards a little close to the chest to avoid giving away our game plan. Well, we all saw how that worked out. What we saw in the preseason was exactly what we saw in the regular season. Color me skeptical, but I’m not buying this excuse this season.
In situations like this when things are bad, the easy thing to do is fold up the tent, just pack it up and accept it. But winners and people who are successful realize that when things get tough, it’s an opportunity to define yourself. They realize that in this moment, you can do something great. - Jon Beason
by Tarheel Soldier on Aug 26, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
not to throw out a foxism, but it all boils down to execution still...
I don’t mean to sugar coat our DL’s play last night (or OL’s for that matter), but fact still remains it was a pretty vanilla gameplan all around; I’m hoping that that aspect changes dramatically come regular season time…
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Wanted to see where Gamble was at.
He ain’t there yet.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
one good thing about our defense
is that we dont miss many tackles..if the young DT learn quickly and granted the defensive backs get better we could have a great defense..
Saw quite a few missed tackles last night. Especially by the D-line
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
If the DL can learn to tackle more consistently, and we learn not to overcommit to one side on every running play...
we actually might’ve done pretty well on more than a few runs last night lol
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Almost all their sweeps were to whichever side Brown lined up on.
He was a marked man, as he’s laughably easy to influence to the inside, leaving the edge unprotected.
That can be partially offset by a defensive set that puts a LB or CB out there for insurance, if he’s planning an inside move, but that wasn’t done, either.
Other than an edge rusher on obvious passing downs (3rd and very long), he has no value, with small size and limited skills. I expect him to be cut. He’s had his chance, with Hardy out, and has blown it.
Sorry guys... did I miss the memo?
Was there some overnight decision to turn CSR into the CO comment section?
Lets lift the discourse okay? Talk about Andrew Luck is stupid and uneducated, as is talking about Newton being a bust… it’s preseason week three.
by James Dator on Aug 26, 2011 9:32 AM EDT reply actions 12 recs
You didn't get the memo?
We’re putting cover sheets on our TPS Reports now.
I can’t believe you didn’t get the memo.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I don’t need a copy of the memo, I’ve already talked to Bill about it.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
mmmm....yeahhhhhh
"Don't put off til tomorrow what you can put off til the day after tomorrow." -Mark Twain
by SouthernPanther on Aug 26, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I just skimmed over it
but people are talking about Luck? That’s the epitome of stupidity. We have way too many other holes to fill rather than worryong about getting another QB.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...you should definitely go back up and read the nonsense.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
How bout Thomas Davis?
talk about gettinig into shape quick, He looked awesome tonight and didnt get hurt
Rec’d, and I’d rec it again if I could.
Proud Member of Cat Scratch Reader and coiner of the (minus Bowers) meme
I'll rec yours for good measure
"If ya ain't first, you're last."
- Ricky Bobby's Dad
"There is no evidence that the tongue is connected to the brain."
-Frank Tyger
by KaiserBromley on Aug 26, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
OMFG!
THAT’S IT, MAN. GAME OVER, MAN. GAME OVER.
WTF ARE WE GONNA DO NOW, MAN?!
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
LOL
Thanks, bro.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
I've read the entire stream (unfortunately)
and was thinking the exact same thing. Judas Priest!!!!
"If ya ain't first, you're last."
- Ricky Bobby's Dad
"There is no evidence that the tongue is connected to the brain."
-Frank Tyger
by KaiserBromley on Aug 26, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed...
…and any honest fan will be evaluating Cam, watching his development, and pointing to 2013 (or earlier if it works right) for the time for it to click and get going.
Didn’t remember who said it (and I’m too lazy to look right now) but if this was a straight up “man up” evaluation of everyone there’s hope to be had out of it. It really did look like the gameplan wasn’t to win the game per se, but to see if the players could win their individual assignments. Cam had bright moments running the ball, but seemed flustered once he was out of the pocket and operating as a satellite. I’m sure there are other individual moments that come to mind for all of us.
I think some are making legitimate observations and words of concern, but the shrill voices on the extreme edges of the Panther fandom sound the loudest because the rest of us are engaged in rational conversation about the issues.
It's not what you've done but what you are doing that matters.
Maybe next year the Ice Surface at Jobing.com should be frozen with the tears of Winnipeg. - TimmyHate of FiveForHowling to a troll after it was alleged Coyote fans do not know how to ice skate.
by AlabamaJammer on Aug 27, 2011 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
correction
flustered throwing the ball once he was out
It's not what you've done but what you are doing that matters.
Maybe next year the Ice Surface at Jobing.com should be frozen with the tears of Winnipeg. - TimmyHate of FiveForHowling to a troll after it was alleged Coyote fans do not know how to ice skate.
by AlabamaJammer on Aug 27, 2011 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Seems like I'm one of the few people who realized that the Panthers were trying not to tip their hand of defense.
Why is no one talking about how the linebackers were all 6 yards off the LOS ALL night. Only in the 2nd half, when McD got pissed, did we start walking people up, and voila! they were shut out in the 2nd half. Yes, they had some of their 2nd unit in with Gradkowski, but I’m referring to the running game.
Look, we weren’t even trying to stop them. It was almost comical. Its even more comical that some of us probably didn’t even notice. Rivera wanted to see the DL in isolation. Obviously they failed that test, but we all knew that we are thin on the DL, so this does not really come as a surprise.
People need to chill out. And I thought Cam was great. Yeah, it would be nice to see more completions, but they have been practicing for about a month, and people have been in and out of the lineup. Plus, we still weren’t really game-planning on offense. Just installing. Jesus Christ. Between some of the comments on here and the radio, you’d think people were ready to blow their brains out over a preseason game. Watch it again without worrying about yards given up, or the score.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
I was talking about it, not too far above your post lol
and made numerous remarks about it last night
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
however, that being said...
it still worries me a bit how poorly the line played in regards to getting any pressure on running plays; that IS something to be concerned about, regardless of how we gameplan.
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
I see your comment now.
Yeah, I was literally laughing at how every play we were in a cover 2 man. We would match up with them, meaning we’d play nickel if they had three WRs, but still just play cover 2 man. All night.
If I know anything about the defense, we are going to have at least three men from the back 7 pressed up on the line of scrimmage. Some of them will drop into coverage, yes, but this will give our DL a chance to beat their man a little easier, and will also allow CJ to escape a double team on every play.
I’m taking literally NOTHING from that defensive performance, other than Thomas Davis is ret’ to go.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
TD is in beast mode, for sure.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Only thing I'm really taking away is that our DL, namely interior DL, needs to develop some pressure on running plays...
and that as a whole, the team can’t lose contain on runs (our LB’s and secondary got sucked in on far too many running plays, which opened up the backside far too often). I was actually impressed with the passing pressure on more than a few plays though, as Dalton would’ve seen the dirt a lot more if he had been looking downfield on a number of plays (not too mention that touchdown pass to Green? Neblett was about to swallow him whole, and he let loose the luckiest duck I’ve ever seen lol)
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
by Tomthehomer on Aug 26, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree that our DL needs to step it up.
Hell, we may not have either starter at DT on the roster yet. But when the regular season starts, all 11 men will be flying to the football on run downs. We will probably be in the bottom third in run defense, but that’s okay.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
I get what you're saying man...
But the DL sucks ass, especially in the middle.
We already knew this, but it’s still painful to see it live.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
"We already knew this?" But didn't know they were this bad!
I mean I’m not sure we’d be any worse rushing 2 DE’s, and playing like a 2-5 defense… Because it’s almost like we have no DT’s anyways.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, we already knew this...
Not everyone is rah rah all the time, even though you like to say they are. ;-)
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
It's puzzling how we were swarming to the ball against NYG, and now this!
I haven’t seen the aggressive defense they’ve been clamoring about the last 2 games.
So I really hope you’re right, and the lack of personnel at the LOS can be compensated for. Maybe Rivera’s trying to put these guys through the ringer while games don’t count??? I’m not fully convinced, but it does make sense.
STEVE SMITH!
Does anybody remember the dagger Cam threw to Naanee?
The one that got called back? That is the type of throw Cam makes when he sets his feet. And if he can already do that now, then time will only help his mechanics make that more natural… That’s exciting!
Also remember… He admitted that he wasn’t looking for his check downs. He was standing in the pocket with guys pressed up against his waist, and trying to arm balls deep to Smitty! That’s not an accuracy problem, that’s just poor rookie decision making… And so easy to correct, with a little more experience in this system.
STEVE SMITH!
I think that's why the coaches keep giving him playing time
They see that he’s progressing. He can’t learn this stuff sitting on the bench.
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
I mean extra playing time (like the 3 quarters last night)
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
In the same breath
remember that nifty 25 yard pass from Clausen to Clowney last week?
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
And the one last night that we lost to the penalty
Clowney is definitely improving
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
Yeah but he's not learning new mechanics
Cam’s making just as “nifty” throws with only a couple weeks of experience doing it. And Jimmy’s showing no improvement, Cam’s learning, improving and in the meantime making athletic plays that Jimmy can only dream about.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
OR that stab to Olsen on the sideline?
That was one of the best throw I’ve seen anyone make all preseason.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
If only our O-line could give him more time
What’s the deal with those guys? Even Kalil looked pretty horrible… That’s was Kalil at center right?
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Like it or not...
They looked like they were playing at about 70%. Everyone did. Except TD.
I think there are serious concerns about any further injury.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Except the o-line wasn't that good last year either
Were they only going 70% then as well?
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
The whole right side of the line was horrible. MacBern and Williams do not need to be starting. Hopefully Otah and Schwartz are back soon, and I want to see them give Byron Bell a shot at RG to see what he’s got.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I'd love to see Bell get some more time...
he’s been pretty decent when playing (albeit, against 2nd and third stringers, but all reports from camp say he’s been good in practice as well). Big body, why not?
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
by Tomthehomer on Aug 26, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
at the very worst it’ll just take the DT longer to move him out of the way because he’s so large, lol
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
pretty much
I mean, he can’t be THAT much worse than turnstile right?
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
by Tomthehomer on Aug 26, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
No...
The only thing worse than Turnstile would be having nothing out there at all.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Having nothing there might be better
The defense would probably at least spend half a second stunned that there is no one there, which is half a second longer then they are spending on Mac-Burned.
Tattoo your name on my arm
I always said my girls a good luck charm.
Mac-Burned...lol I like that
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I think Kalil was suffering because of the right side getting beaten non stop...
it frequently seemed like he went from having to block one guy to blocking 2 lol
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
by Tomthehomer on Aug 26, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
He was literally in Cam's lap
I felt bad for the guy. He knows he can run, but he needs to work on being patient in the pocket and looking down field. But the O-line was putting him in a situation where he probably should just roll out… but then how does he work on the former???
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
It is pre-season, right?
I agree that pre-season play has looked shoddy on offense, defense, and special teams. But I also think it’s way too early to panic. As the disclaimer goes— “current performance may not be an indicator of future gains”.
Last Year’s Division winners pre-season records:
Patriots 2-2
Steelers 3-1
Colts 0-4
Chiefs 1-3
Eagles 2-2
Bears 0-4
Falcons 2-2
Seahawks 1-3
49ers went 4-0 in the practice games, posted a 6-10 season record.
Please get off the ledge, at least until the evening of Oct. 2nd. If we’re 1-3 or 0-4 at that time, feel free to jump…
by CamelCity on Aug 26, 2011 9:58 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
LOL, rec'd
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
Exactly.
This is the point that should be focused on here. Our OG’s and DT’s are just plain awful. We’re not going very far with this bunch.
"Keep Pounding" -Sam Mills
Follow me on Twitter
Just need one year...
…scheme to cover the flaws, address them in the offseason, come back stronger and the investment more protected in the pocket.
It's not what you've done but what you are doing that matters.
Maybe next year the Ice Surface at Jobing.com should be frozen with the tears of Winnipeg. - TimmyHate of FiveForHowling to a troll after it was alleged Coyote fans do not know how to ice skate.
by AlabamaJammer on Aug 27, 2011 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I'll expand upon that even further...
my bears fans friends were in similar dire straits last preseason about this time, because both lines were…wait for it…playing like complete garbage! lol
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
At least the D-line redeemed themselves.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
As I hope similar results can be achieved here...
although probably more likely that our O-line recovers before the D-line gets up to speed
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
by Tomthehomer on Aug 26, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
The Bears O line was hot garbage the whole season though.
Martz had to change his game plan to accommodate how bad they were. They should be much better this year without Kruitz or Olsen.
Hahahahaha!
Tattoo your name on my arm
I always said my girls a good luck charm.
Hey, alls I know is they were one of two teams in the NFC championship game lol
and judging by their preseason performance last year, they shouldn’t have sniffed 5 wins
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Of course to be fair, vet teams like the Patriots rarely play their starters
So their backups are determining those outcomes. However we saw in the 1st half how our starters really look… This D-line personnel as is, isn’t getting much better.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Indy especially...
they’re like…4-28 over the past 8 years or something like that? lol they never game plan for preseason (at least nothing past a very vanilla scheme)
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
by Tomthehomer on Aug 26, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Part of that is because their roster is so bad
once you get past Manning, Wayne, Clark and Freeney/Mathis.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
At least with the o-line we can hope an Otah and Schwartz return will make them better
Unless Balmer suddenly gets good we are stuck with what we got on the DL. Maybe Greg Hardy will make something of an impact but otherwise… so where is Maake?
Sitting at home, wondering if he should play after three straight years worth of injury...
he looked decidedly mediocre last season when he did finally get healthy and got into the skins lineup FWIW
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
by Tomthehomer on Aug 26, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
True. But I'd be surprised if there's not anymore D-line moves, soon.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I think one of the Williams beefcakes and we'll see vast improvement.
Much like when Hollis Thomas really helped plug the leak.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Aug 26, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
You heard it here first
We are gonna beat GB week two.
Optimisim, hell yeah!
by ppalm on Aug 26, 2011 10:17 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Boosh!
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
by Tomthehomer on Aug 26, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Cam Newton's highlights from yesterday...
http://www.nfl.com/videos/carolina-panthers/09000d5d821baaf2/Cam-Newton-highlights
Seriously, this is a nice looking real.
STEVE SMITH!
Definitely looks promising
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
There is absolutely no way either backup QB makes that last play to Shockey. That is sooo much harder than he made it look.
Cam is going to have some 100-yard rushing days.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
He could have easily run for 100 yesterday
They weren’t trying to stop him from running, and he was only running as a last resort.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
That's terrifying.
His highlight reel is two scrambles, a dunk to Naanee (or whatever the hell he’s called), Olsen making a tremendous catch, and a nice bit of elusiveness and a dunk to Shockey?
Jesus.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
What were Jimmy's highlights?
Just curious.
Yards are yards. Points are points.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Okay. That's mature.
Tell me what Jimmy did well. What do you think he would have done with the same opportunity (starting the game and playing 3 qtrs)?
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Nobody knows, because he hasn't been given much a chance.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
He has had many practice reps with the ones. More than Cam, in fact.
Chances? He was running with the ones for 80% of camp or more. I’d say he had plenty of chances. He lost the job in camp because he was out-performed.
Chances? He had 10 chances to help us win a few more games last season so we wouldn’t be in a position to draft a QB with the first pick. He won once.
No, he hasn’t been in much during these last two preseason games, but you have to commit to one QB. And they have—The better one.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Do you seriously believe that?
He didn’t lose his job because he was out performed. He lost his job because Cam Newton is the #1 overall pick.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
There are more people who do believe than there are people who don’t, including the coaching staff.
The coaches wouldn’t just hand the job to Newton. He took it from Clausen.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Neither QB has outperformed the other.
I don’t really care who wins the job, I’d be happy either way. I just wanted Clausen to get his fair shot, and he clearly didn’t.
Example:
Ron Rivera said before the Miami game that both Cam and Clausen would get to play with the first team. Instead, Clausen doesn’t play until the second half, and the only real options in the passing game this season (i.e. the TEs) included only Hartsock, who is 1/4 of the reciever Shockey or Olsen is.
It’s borderline ludicrious to actually believe this was a fair fight. The deck was stacked against Clausen and the job was handed to Cam. Jimmy didn’t do himself a favor and take the job for himself, but he was barely given the chance.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s because the defense let Chad Henne and Reggie Bush beat them into submission. They can’t let Jimmy have the 2nd quarter if Cam only had like 8 plays in the 1st.
But you’re right…Jimmy didn’t take the job for himself, and he should have been able to do that, since he’s a 2nd year player and has NFL experience. He lost the job because he’s not as good as Cam.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
no shit the deck was stacked against him
He built the deck last season. Saying he has no blame for his situation is ludicrous
I didn't say he has no blame.
I’m saying it wasn’t a fair fight. Last season is last season, this season is now.
Last night I saw some people (NOT EVERYONE) giving Cam a pass for his horrible throwing because
a) the offensive line sucked
b) the WRs weren’t getting open
Is this not the exact same situation Clausen played in all last season with an even worse coaching staff, yet he doesn’t get the same pass?
Newton can run, and because of that he’s currently the better player. But as a passer, it seems obvious to me that Clausen is superior (not by a wide margin mind you) and in the long run, I don’t see why we don’t allow Clausen to get that final chance with a new staff, new team, and give Cam a run for his money and build some trade value.
I only want what is best for this franchise, and I don’t see how giving Clausen one final chance is more detrimental to the team than not giving him a chance.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Because it deflates the rest of the team…you can tell a difference in the team as a whole when Cam is starting vs. when Jimmy is starting.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
That's a fair point.
Jimmy doesn’t bring the same amount of charisma to the plate, something I’ve overlooked.
In the end, I’m going to stop this debate, because it serves almost no purpose. I’ve made my opinion known, but it won’t change the fact that Newton is the #1 QB now. He’s the better athlete but the worse passer (for now). He probably brings more to the plate than Clausen, and my sole reason for advocating Clausen is because I’m curious how he would do with this new coaching staff and if he could up his trade value. I see the upside as far higher than the downside, but I’m fine with taking the safer route, because all that is at stake is the mere possibility that we could get a decent draft pick.
That is all.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
You have made good points
and you have been fair in your assessments. They are not wrong just different, but it’s been a good conversation. Your thoughts have merit, and you have articulated yourself well, without defensiveness, nor snippiness. Your angle is a plausible choice, and because one is not really shining head and shoulders above the other, it makes all of these scenarios more difficult to consider, because there’s always more ways to skin a cat.
I for one have appreciated the friendly debate.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
As have I.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Cam was given a pass for ONE game.
Jimmy has shown us the same tendencies in 10 meaningful games, plus a handful more preseason games.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
I agree, last year needs to be out of the equation
you can’t judge someone’s future by grading him on his past. He’s improved considerably from last year to this year, and that is a huge positive. Interestingly, you can substitute DA’s name in your post, and you would’ve been posting all of my thoughts- haha
You are questioning the professional integrity of the BAMF.
Do you realize that?
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
I love Rivera, I think he's going to be a great coach.
But as I pointed out above, he flat out lied when he said both QBs would get to run with the first team.
by Panthers FTW on Aug 26, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think he expected the defense to let Henne be Dan Marino 2.0 when he said that...
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Its not a lie...PLANS change.
That was what he said the PLAN was. Sometimes you can’t/don’t stick to the PLAN.
Regardless, Jimmy started the game against the Giants. I would call that running with the first team. Do you not? Or are you referring to a comment Rivera made about game 3?
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
*nevermind about the last question, FTW.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Always something negative from you
Cam did make some good plays last night. He also made some bad ones. We all know he needs to improve, heck he even called his own throws “embarrassing”.
To say his highlight reel is terrifying is just petty.
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
That throw to Olsen was perfect.
He was a lot tallwer than the defender and he could catch it, the defender couldnt. How can you insinuate that was not a nice throw?
Official member of the 2011 Panthers Mafia
Sees what wants to see.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
It's at the point where
I can’t even respond to all the nonsensical statements.
I too thought it was a terrific throw.
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
Hey! You're the new me!
Get outta here Nancy!
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Tommie Harris signed with the Colts! Ugh.
I really wish they would have addressed the D-line more during early free agency. Did they really think Ron Edwards was the next coming of Kris Jenkins… Coming to save our defense from ruin?
We’re only going to get guys on a hope and a prayer off of waivers. I’m getting scared they might trade another draft pick.
STEVE SMITH!
They signed him a couple of weeks ago… and word is he’s on their bubble to be cut.
by James Dator on Aug 26, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Hope springs eternal
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
I know. I'm suggestion... sign Pat Williams?
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Older but might help
I bet he will be around when the waiver wire gets hot, we will look at him if cuts dont produce anything we like
Follow me on Twitter @manu4t
So, how much of a true "dress rehearsal" was last night's game, scheme-wise?
I’d hope no more than 50%… if more, it may be a long season.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Hanlon's Razor
I don't know.
But I doubt that it affects the line play. (Or lack there of).
"Keep Pounding" -Sam Mills
Follow me on Twitter
O-line sucked, but D-Will still looked good
Only had about 4 or 5 carries though. That definitely doesn’t help the o-line any… pass protection is not their strong suit.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Hanlon's Razor
Starting RG, starting RT, starting FB out
I’m not as worried as some. I found it absolutely amazing that Chud adjusted the run to the lack of talent on the right side, and ran behind Gross and Wharton. If we can get everyone back on the field I think we’ll be seeing significantly more third-and-shorts than we have in the preseason. The fact that our RBs even managed 5YPC with such a dismal blocking situation is very uplifting.
I don't get the reason Williams only had 5 carries.
If he is the #1, and they said this game would be like regular season, he only gets 5 carries in 3 quarters? That makes me think they were not playing it as if it were a regular season game but still evaluating, and giving Newton some extra practice.
Official member of the 2011 Panthers Mafia
I got that feeling on both offense and defense
However, in isolating our D-Line it was proven that we really are hurting there.
D-Will is ready to go. No reason to risk injury.
This comment section has officially been Tater'd.
Exactly, preseason is for evaluation.
What are we expecting to see from DWill that he hasn’t already shown? At this point he is the seasoned vet. Let him sit. Hell, we probably wouldn’t play Smitty if we had a few more options for Cam to throw to.
Tattoo your name on my arm
I always said my girls a good luck charm.
That's exactly why he only got those few carries.
Why risk injury, to him or Stewart? Give them a few reps, to have them ready for game 1.
Evaluate Sutton and Vaughn, to see if either should be cut. (Frankly, both gave good effort, and Sutton could be a starter, if called upon.)
Talk aside, the coaches look on these games as evaluation, first and foremost. 90 (or close to 90, what with injuries), and only 53 survive.
I really don't understand why
part of our fanbase is all Cam and anti-Clausen, or vice versa. Really, can’t we support the entire team? All QBs on the roster, not just one. What happened to that? While I like Cam’s ability, it’s ridiculous seeing everyone that’s throwing Clausen down the drain just bc of last season. Get over it. I mean, really, he was thrown into a horrible situation that he should’ve never been in. The entire team was horrible as a whole. It was last season. A rookie QB on a horrible team doesn’t make it any better.
Sorry guys, just had to get that out there.
Okay, but it sounds like you're in favor of Clausen
And are not really neutral.
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
I was going to say the same thing.
Jay—when people say that Jimmy should start over Cam I (right or wrong) feel the need to state my disagreement. If in doing so anyone is offended, I apologize.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
ERL, it's all good.
There’s nothing wrong with stating your argument, as long as you have legit reasons to back it up and such. It’s just when someone comes out saying, “well Clausen sucks” or something along those lines. At least have an intelligent debate, rather than some rash statement. Of course this isn’t directed at you ERL.
Gotcha.
I agree. It gets too chippy on here whenever QBs are mentioned. The reality is: it looks like we might have larger problems.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Yeah, the linemen!
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
I'd love to see both QBs turn into starting-caliber QBs!
Like the situation with Atlanta a few years back when they had both Michael Vick and Matt Schaub. And I agree, we do have much bigger problems than at QB. That’s for sure.
No, I clearly stated I like Cam's ability.
I like both QBs and hope both are big successes! But it’s ridiculous seeing everyone slam Clausen. I’m not slamming either QB, while they both have plenty to work on, they’re both our QBs. It’s fine to debate over which is the better QB, but to throw one under the bus is a different story.
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It is just PRESEASON folks – no need to panic. This is our laboratory. You dont win a track meet on the treadmill…………
Follow me on Twitter @manu4t
Read it and learn!
From 2010:
“[Sam] Bradford, playing with the second team against the Browns, completed six of 14 passes for 24 yards…For the preseason, Bradford has yet to toss a touchdown or an interception. He has thrown for 81 yards, completing 44% of his passes, and has been sacked four times.”
Now how do you think Rams fans felt at that point? Bradford had a 6 year $78 million deal.
This is what happens when you’re dealing with rookie QBs. Even Bradford, who had one of the best rookie seasons in NFL history struggled in his first preseason.
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
by hyphenate on Aug 26, 2011 10:56 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
exactly...........
we forget that Cam is a ROOKIE, mistakes are bound to happen. We just have to hope that he continues to adjust and get better week in and week out. He’s not gonna be Tom Brady or Micheal Vick over night……………
Follow me on twitter @shauniiboi
Go Panthers!!!!!
What do you think you're doing? Is that rational thinking? How dare you!
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Hanlon's Razor
sowwy :)
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
Just don't make a habit of it
Especially when we’re talking about QB’s.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Hanlon's Razor
And I should have added
And Bradford had OTAs and mini-camp!
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
There you go again... smh
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Hanlon's Razor
won't do it again--I mean it this time
"Men, I want you just thinking of one word all season. One word and one word only: Super Bowl." - Bill Peterson
I remember Rams fans wishing they would have drafted Suh
They thought Bradford would get killed behind their O-line.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
God, I had forgotten how shitty he looked in preseason last year lol
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Cam has a learning curve put he's not the problem....it;s the o-line
not giving him enough time
It's not ALL the O-Line
They didn’t do him any favors (Looking at you TURNSTILE), but Cam still showed some pretty wild inaccuracy, even when he had some time. Also, as a mobile QB, I expect him to throw better on the run than he did.
This comment section has officially been Tater'd.
Inaccuracy due to poor protection
I thought we already drilled this point home… But how was his accuracy when he had time and stepped into his throws?
But when he’s trying throw deep sideline, with his center pressed up against his waist, what do you expect? Even Roethlisberger only does that to check downs and tight ends. It’s more an issue of knowing when to make which throws… But I’m just glad he CAN make all the throws.
STEVE SMITH!
by southtunnel on Aug 26, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I still saw him throwing off his back foot when he had time and could have stepped into it
That was at least my first impression. I have not gone back and dissected anything in depth, and don’t plan to. I just remember thinking “Why did he throw that off his back foot?”
This comment section has officially been Tater'd.
I don't really remember any of the incompletions he threw on the run.
I remember the completion he threw to Shockey on the run. That was impressive.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Also, it's not always accuracy
he did have a couple catchable balls dropped- and the curl pattern to Smitty was a good read, just late- if he throws it sooner it’s a completion- instead he was a little late getting it there, and the CB has time to recover and make a play- these are some of the fixables.
Good point.
There were also some drops in the game against the Giants. Is he generally ‘inaccurate’? Yeah. But not as much as is being inferred.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
also
I think the roll out is going to be relied on more heavily than what’s been shown- that will compensate for the o-line blocking- and take advantage of Cam’s strength- move the pocket-get him out of the pocket and in to space, where DB’s become more tentative and may screw coverage- open receiver, or open run. He makes good throws on the run to the TE’s and backs- can we put the WR’s in the mix? that could be deadly!
Absolutely.
And with that, you open up some things in the running game.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
BINGO!
you sir, are a winner! There should be several games that this tactic should be used heavily early on, which will indeeeed open up the running game- and that’s when we should become the most deadly.
That one was impressive
But on several occasions I remembered watching him throw on the run and missing. There were a couple in the dirt intended for RBs I believe. Don’t have the tape in front of me.
This comment section has officially been Tater'd.
Since we're talking about the defense.
If they are on the field forever, its hard to get into any rhythm on offense. Just think that had a lot to do with the ‘stiffness’ of the offense the last two games.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
huh huh...you said stiffness...huh huh...
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
heh heh, I guess I did, heh heh
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
The fact that Cam is making excellent throws (like the near pin point TD to Smitty that was just not quite there) and really poor throws (overthrown balls) leads me to believe that he has the talent to make excellent throws. He has the ability to deliver a strike almost anywhere. The thing that needs work are his mechanics.
But I am extremely optimistic because he has the ability to make those throws and has shown it. All he needs is more time to learn how to throw better and for this O-line to give him good pass protection. The sky isn’t falling for Newton, not by any stretch.
Proud Member of Cat Scratch Reader and coiner of the (minus Bowers) meme
And in the meantime, while he learns as a passer...
He offers mobility skills unlike any QB we have seen.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
*sans Vick. O’course Vick doesn’t have the power Cam has.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
No, but he didn't really need it either lol...
Vick was like the greased up deaf guy from family guy, except he could run faster than just about anyone in the league!
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
LOL
Dammit, Tom, I’ve been waiting 25 1/2 months for the perfect moment to break out a greased up deaf guy reference!
JK. Well played.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
I was going to say something like "slippery", and then I noticed that I had that exact episode playing on my tv lol
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
another Bad season for the panthers
The panthers need to let someone else start at QB and let Cam learn from it? The Defense Stinks and the Panthers need to go out and sign someone? Get help for the QB?
Spot on Bill
It’s good having you around. And these are growing pains, it happens.
"Excuses are a disease." -Cam Newton
It's the interior line S.T.U.P.I.D
If the D-line can’t pass rush, even “Prime Time” couldn’t cover receivers. If the O-line can’t pass block, Joe Montana looks ordinary. What may be worse is that we can’t run block or stop the run either.
GAMES ARE WON AND LOST IN THE TRENCHES!
not that bad
I feel like our biggest problem is injuries. The running game is key for us, on both sides of the ball. I think we should go with a 3-4 defense when Beason is healthy. But he’s hurt, and we spend most of our time practicing the 4-3. Most people talk about who they have on the line when switching defenses. Well we do not have the personnel to run a 4-3. Maybe Balmer shows he was worth a 1st rd talent, and these points become ireelevant. I hope so. But until then, I’d rather have our top 4 LBs on the field with CJ, Fua and Hardy. But Hardy and Beason are hurt, so it’s not an option. Of course we are still waiting to see what Hogan can do.
The same thing applies to the other side of the line. We are missing 2 starters. Once again, the entire right side of the line is a huge gaping hole. We need Schwartz and Otah. I say that, but I haven’t seen Otah play a regular season game since 2009. He might suck, too. Once we get these guys back on the field, we’ll be better off, or we’ll have a better idea of who we need to draft next year.
I feel like our biggest problem is injuries.
I agree…injuries are playing a huge role in our “problems” thus far. We have several key guys that we need to get back on the field: Beast, Hardy, Schwartz, and Otah especially.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
Who will play the NT if they switch to a 3-4?
Fua? He isn’t an everydown dt right now, how many teams play a 4-3 DEnd $72 million to switch him into a 3-4 DEnd scheme? They have the personel for the 4-3 in my eyes.
by adam carter on Aug 27, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
crying about cam is ridiculous
I don’t understand why some panther fans are acting like we should’ve drafted someone else. You say we’ve been looking for a quality DT since 2009. We’ve been looking for a quality QB since the playoff loss to AZ in 2008. Would you rather have a solid QB or DT? Injuries have been a bigger problem than DT concerns. And let’s not act like we haven’t addressed these problems. McClain heldout, Edwards got hurt, and we’ve been drafting at these positions, too. Only one DT has been worthy of a #1pick since Warren Sapp, and that’s Suh. None of these other guys are that good.
Give me the QB
There is no measure of DTs that compares to the value of a good QB.
"I don't know whatchu came to do...but IIIIIIIIIIIIII came to praise his name, yeyuss!!
~Reverend Brown, Coming to America
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Cat Scratch Reader
Related FanShots on Cat Scratch Reader
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
