Class vs. Crass: The Firings of John Kasay & Steve Williams

by MickSmiley on Aug 15, 2011 9:16 PM EDT

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-8960337

I'm glad the Panthers have classy guys like John Kasay. Makes me proud to be a Panthers fan. He could have gone out whining like the spoiled caddy Steve Williams, but he's got too much class.

"You see, the Panthers replaced John Kasay with veteran kicker Olindo Mare. At the same time Kasay was signing his thank-you letter to his fans, Mare was signing a four-year, $12 million contract as the Panthers new kicker. The problem? John Kasay is a more accurate kicker than Olindo Mare!

Consider this - between 2006 and 2010, John Kasay was one of 27 kickers to attempt at least 100 field goals and his 86.6% (123 of 142) field goal percentage places him seventh overall in terms of accuracy. Where does Olindo Mare fall on that list? Twenty-fourth, connecting on just 80.1% of his attempts."

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Olindo Mare and a free roster spot is worth more than Kasay and Lloyd

Sad but true. I’ll miss Kasay and everything he brought to the team, but Mare put a kickoff thru the uprights.

Goddamn quebecios! It is 35 miles per hour, not 35 kilometers per... whatever is metric for hour.

by Oi2dwrld on Aug 15, 2011 9:29 PM EDT reply actions

John Kasay is a more accurate kicker than Olindo Mare

That depends on which stats you use. The author of the article wanted to twist the numbers to prove his point, so he included Mare’s last year with Miami at 72% and his pitiful year with the Saints at 52% (His two worst years of his career). If you compare the last three years: Kasey has 86.2% and Mare is 87.9%.

Statistics don’t lie, but statisticians do.

by Scrantsj on Aug 15, 2011 10:08 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

+100

This has been a public service announcement.......

by CaptainPanther on Aug 16, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions

You want to talk about class..

I don’t see how anyone with any class at all could possibly caddy for Tiger. The guy is an emotional breakdown looking for a place to happen out on the links. I mean, I know it’s just a job to most folks, but, jeez.

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by The Kackalack Kid on Aug 15, 2011 10:18 PM EDT reply actions

This is a little one dimensional

Kasay was more accurate last year by about 3% or so, but remember why we got Lloyd? Because Kasay was one of the worst kickers for touchbacks. IIn 2007, he was ranked 35th. Soon afterwards we had others doing kickoffs. In 2007, Mare was ranked 3rd, and has been in the top 5 since. This also allows us to free up a roster spot and some money.

I hate to lose Kasay and he is a great, class act. But Mare is not a drop off in talent at all, and just made more business sense.

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by manu4t on Aug 15, 2011 10:20 PM EDT reply actions

As much as I would have love kasay to stay

This move probably was the only move to keep a roster spot. Honestly after watching the first game of the preseason, I am glad that we freed up a roster spot. Remember, this additional roster spot could that we have a room for a young cb like burney or even for a guy like barnidge, who we saw is someone who could be very important for chud’s offense.

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by Shockers on Aug 15, 2011 11:59 PM EDT reply actions

with the possibility of keeping 4 TEs on the roster and..

the fact that we’re probably going to go with a strategy of WR#2-by-committee, that extra roster spot is going to be invaluable by the end of preseason.

I hate hate hate to see Kasay go. It will take a good long time before I get used to not seeing #4 on FG attempts.

by Floods on Aug 18, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions

Jason Baker

could have handled kickoffs. We’d still have the roster spot, we’re not losing too much as far as field position goes, and we still have the better kicker. Not to mention that while Kasay is 40 and obviously losing leg strength, he made a 54 yarder last season and Mare himself is no spring chicken (38). Add in the fact that the money we spent on a kicker could have gone towards finding another DT, CB, or OG if Schwartz’s injury is more serious, and I think this is a pretty poor move overall. This move tops the Chris Harris trade for stupidity, Hurney is a great GM overall and I’m very happy with him, but this was not one of his good moves.

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by Flowing Willow on Aug 16, 2011 12:28 AM EDT reply actions

I agree with you

I’m just going to give the management the benefit of a doubt that they knew something about kasay that we didnt know (when it came to his health or leg strength). Kasay will sure be missed however.

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by Shockers on Aug 16, 2011 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions

Even though I see your point on baker taking care of kick offs*

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by Shockers on Aug 16, 2011 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions

I dunno about Baker

I don’t understand all the finite aspects of kicking, but purely on the leg use and my physics/biology knowledge, the two types of kicks do not likely use the exact same set of leg muscles. If that’s the case, you would likely have to sacrifice your kicking ability for punting ability and vice versa. Sure, there’s a middle ground, but based on the number of punt specialists in the league, I’m willing to bet that the middle ground for that roster spot isn’t worth the 1-2 extra wins a season the difference makes.

by ppalm on Aug 16, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions

Bakers done kickoffs before.

So i don’t see the harm in putting him back in that role. He’s not going to be booting them out the back of the endzone, but with the new rules he could probably consistently get it to the goalline. And with the coverage team getting five yards head start from past years, I’m pretty sure we could theoretically not have much of a dropoff in special teams coverage with Baker kicking off. Certainly not 1-2 extra wins dropoff.

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by Flowing Willow on Aug 16, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions

kasey is more like 41 or 42 BTW

This has been a public service announcement.......

by CaptainPanther on Aug 16, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions

42 on 10/27/11

This has been a public service announcement.......

by CaptainPanther on Aug 16, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions

Even more impressive that he still has his leg then.

54 yarder when he was 41? There are kickers in their 30’s who can’t make that kick.

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by Flowing Willow on Aug 16, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions

you do have to factor in age

and basically what everyone else already said

by vitzeng on Aug 16, 2011 3:13 AM EDT reply actions

if we're factoring in age then why are we signing a 38 year old to replace him?

For a heck of a lot more money.

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by Flowing Willow on Aug 16, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Because at 38, Mare has 3-4 more years left.

At 41 1/2, Kasay has 1-2 more years left.

I hated the move too, but if you take emotion out of it, it makes sense.

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by BW Smith on Aug 16, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Also they seem to be impressed with the kicker from NE we signed

and Mare may be the stop gap until he is up to speed and kicking.

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by manu4t on Aug 16, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions

What kicker from NE?

You mean Kunalic from Nebraska? The only thing he’s ever done is kickoff.

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by Flowing Willow on Aug 16, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes that is who I mean

With a leg like that maybe they see him as a developmental project. Plus he will be able to workout the ST guys so Mare wont get worn out.

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by manu4t on Aug 16, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions

The only thing he's ever done is kickoff, college included.

I’ll leave it at that.

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by Flowing Willow on Aug 16, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions

See my post above.

Obviously emotion is a big reason why I’m so angry about this move still, but this move was a poor one for several other reasons. People say we save a roster spot that we would use on a kickoff specialist, enter Jason Baker. People say Kasay is aging, he made a 54 yard field goal last season and is as automatic as they get in the league. Mare is a good kicker, I think Kasay is just as good, but we (hopefully) won’t miss Kasay as much on the field. However we’ll be looking for Mare’s replacement in a few years, and we’re paying him a ton of money that could have been used to shore up a weaker area on the team. Kasay would have been just as good, for far less, as Mare, and we could have gotten a long term replacement next year and forgotten about the position for ten years or more.

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by Flowing Willow on Aug 16, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions

I dont disagree with you at all

I would have preferred to keep Kasay. And with moving up the kickoff point 5 yds, Mare’s acquisition seems a little less attractive.

I am asking because I dont know, what was Kasay making this year?

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by manu4t on Aug 16, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions

$2.5 million I think?

I could be wrong though.

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by Flowing Willow on Aug 16, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions

One 54 yard FG doesn’t mean anything in the grand scheme of things. And, as far as being “automatic as they get”, so is Mare…he’s more automatic than Kasay actually. Plus, Mare is much much better at KO than Baker is, and the goal is to get more touchbacks to keep teams at the 20 yard line.

I do agree with your feeling that they overpaid Mare. I wish they would have signed a rookie kicker if they were going to get rid of Kasay, and use the extra money on another position.

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by BW Smith on Aug 16, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions

It does show he still has the leg, despite what many fans say.

And I’m sorry, Kasay has shown over his career that he is the more reliable kicker. Mare is no slouch, which is why I’m not picketting BOA stadium right now, and there is a definite advantage on kickoffs. I’m just not sure that advantage is worth overpaying an older kicker when we had needs elsewhere.

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by Flowing Willow on Aug 16, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions

You have to be careful with Yahoo content.

This article, as well as many others, was written by an “average Joe”, not an actual reporter. It’s very evident on the page but some just aren’t looking for it. It’s just as bad as referencing Bleacher Report articles. You just can’t trust the validity of citizen journalism.

Also, this is more of a Fan Shot than a Fan Post.

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by ALAC on Aug 16, 2011 6:48 AM EDT reply actions