Are the owners trying to pull a fast one, or is this all a bad game of telephone?
by James Dator on Jul 21, 2011 10:33 PM EDT
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PrintWe've heard a lot of bad cliches this negotiation process, and the latest special seems to be saying that things get tense in the final moments of an agreement, yadda... yadda... yadda.
There seems to be a spate of angry players taking to Twitter to voice their disgust that seems to have originally started with an e-mail DeMaurice Smith sent to players tonight (courtesy of Joel Thorman of SBNation):
"All:
As you know the Owners have ratified their proposal to settle our differences. It is my understanding that they are forwarding it to us.
As you may have heard, they apparently approved a supplemental revenue sharing proposal. Obviously, we have not been a part of those discussions.
As you know from yesterday, issues that need to be collectively bargained remain open, other issues such as workers compensation, economic issues and end of deal terms remain unresolved.
There is no agreement between the NFL and the Players at this time. I look forward to our call tonight."
Naturally, the statement raised in the second paragraph sent players into a tizzy and immediately it was pronounced by many that the owners were 'trying to screw the players in the 11th hr'. Obviously, if true, this represents a severe lack of negotiating in good faith on the part of the owners. After the jump we'll see what some Carolina Panthers players were saying.
What we do know is that the NFLPA chose not to put the proposal to vote tonight, which is fair enough so their lawyers can have ample time to read through the document before signing.
Sure it looks all proper, but something tells me its just a little too neat and organized to be the truth.
The deceit is never ending with these guys... Shame on them is right @TD58SDTM (Thomas Davis)
FYI Don't believe a what's heard on the news... It's not a done deal. The owners want to put some pressure on us by making a nice and neat little schedule for how things will go, before an agreement has even been reached. Patience is the name of the game.
Thomas Davis
SMH @NFL owners shame on you. Stop trying to fool the fans. We know better. SMH
It's a set up
I wish they would shut up
Thankfully these were the only three who commented, and here's why I say 'thankfully'. If Senn, Davis and Williams have seen the CBA as proposed by the NFL, then fine, my mistake. However, everything that I have read indicates that right now the NFLPA are only scratching the surface of the document. All they have said is that they're not putting it to a vote tonight. Knee-jerk reactions to the players immediately assuming 'it's a set up' reeks of too much Tony Soprano and not enough Vince Lombardi.
Now, I could be completely wrong- maybe the owners are trying for a last minute land grab, but to do so would be hubris of the highest order. I'm pretty sure both sides knew they would be going over this with a fine tooth comb, so why jeopardize everything now for more money?
I hate to say it again, but time will tell. That being said, these quick tweet, he-said-she-said bullshit responses on twitter need to stay on a school yard.
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Twitter + Demaurice Smith = headache and dissapointment
I guess I can hang up the jersey and put the beer back in the fridge. No celebrating tonight.
by Swamp Panther on Jul 21, 2011 10:48 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Didn't both sides have a neutral party typing everything they discussed in the meetings?
And wouldnt that be the document they voted on? Are they trying to say the owners had someone type up a whole new agreement that was not agreed on, then they voted for it?
No, the collective bargaining agreement should not have been altered in any way.
If the agreement was changed, they would by law have to inform the player’s reps of what changes they made and allow them to make a counter offer or completely reject the change. The owners are ALL business men. They do this for a living. It’s the players who don’t know what the hell is going on.
It just seems amazing to me that D. Smith can say that the owners are trying to pull a fast one when he was in the same room negotiating the whole time. He knows exactly what’s in the agreement. If he didn’t like the wording or whatever, then why did he call all the player reps to meet and decide on whether to vote on it?
D. Smith is simply grandstanding and trying to drag this process out as long possible. As soon as this CBA is agreed upon and voted in, he will go back to being an obscure pimple on the ass of the NFL.
In situations like this when things are bad, the easy thing to do is fold up the tent, just pack it up and accept it. But winners and people who are successful realize that when things get tough, it’s an opportunity to define yourself. They realize that in this moment, you can do something great. - Jon Beason
by Tarheel Soldier on Jul 22, 2011 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed - the owners didn't have the deal on paper either
It was a “handshake deal” negotiated in good faith with player representation present. Social media is just exacerbating the situation.
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques
As soon as this CBA is agreed upon and voted in, he will go back to being an obscure pimple on the ass of the NFL.
I love this line! Rec’d
As for the rest of your comment, I agree. The owners aren’t stupid enough to try and pull a fast one on the players. The players are overreacting to this.
The problem the players have is that they feel like they’re being forced to re-certify*, and they don’t want to come across as the weak little children that do everything daddy tells them to do, so they’re bitching and moaning about being gypped by the owners.
*-While they have the right to decide when and if they want to re-certify, they must understand that it’s a time sensitive matter if they don’t want to lose any potential revenue for this season. The HOF Game has already been cancelled, and if they don’t get this deal done quickly they’ll start losing pre-season games too. The owners aren’t telling them to re-certify to be bullies, they’re doing it because a) there’s a timeline involved, and b) they can’t agree on the CBA until there’s a union to agree with, so the players must re-certify before any CBA can be instituted.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
And see the thing that pisses me off is
that D. Smith already knew they had to recertify as a Union before this thing gets settled. Why not do it a few week ago when you knew the deal was about to be done?
Sooo me, Cam, Ron, Marty, Don, Chud, Sean, Mike and Jerry are going out to have some Cammy Cam juice... Who's coming?
It’s a power play. They want to show that they can re-certify whenever they want, if they even want to do it.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
Now what happens if they don't recertify?
Sooo me, Cam, Ron, Marty, Don, Chud, Sean, Mike and Jerry are going out to have some Cammy Cam juice... Who's coming?
Then there's no CBA
You can only have a CBA if you have a player’s union to agree to the CBA.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
The reason they didn't reform the union
Is because they would have to drop their anti-trust lawsuit which was pretty much the only leverage the players had going for them.
From what I gather
They don’t like the deadline of next Wednesday to recertify as a union. That along with a deadline of agreement by 6/30 or the old CBA rules take effect. This is the email put out by Demaurice Smith.
He’s saying this tactic is illegal. If I ever run into Demaurice Smith I’ll make sure its with my truck.
by Swamp Panther on Jul 21, 2011 11:00 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
First casualty of the offseason: Hall of fame game canceled
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Im really starting to not give a F***. Get a deal done the let us know until then stfu and keep things to yourself. Goes for owners and players. Back and forth non sense like this with the media is only pissing us the fans off more.
"I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them." - George Bush
"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Robert McCloskey
Chris Mortensen reports
Good news. Players wrapped call, then leadership received final details. Reviewing. A vote can come tomorrow if they can satisfy a finishing detail or 2.
Although there are guys like Roddy White who don’t see a deal getting done by Tuesday…
"I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them." - George Bush
"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Robert McCloskey
Just in
ESPN just reported that a little bit ago D Smith saw the details of the deal and players will vote tomm. Relax guys, we are less than 24 hours from this nightmare being over.
You're assuming they'll vote yes then...
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they pulled a dick move and voted it down.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
To be fair
The owner’s arbitrary deadlines are really damaging to the players. It only gives them 3 days to negotiate on things like discipline and player safety as well as health benefits. If the NFL doesn’t like the NFLPA’s proposed changes, they can just stall and all of those things will be governed under rules from the 2006 CBA for the next ten years. The owner’s are basically just trying to sweep away the last few issues without dealing with them.
Hopefully this isn’t the case and the actual proposal already addresses these things.
Not saying it's right...
But to be fair… the owners and the players have had years to get this done. If they’re fighting over days worth of time maybe they should have spent their time negotiating a little more effectively.
by Fernando De La Cruz on Jul 22, 2011 7:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Screw the all.
The NFLPA are playing the fans. Here’s an idea. Ticket prices no more than $35.00. Concession prices cut in half. Player wages the average of the local pay range. Benefits the same as the economy permits. No union, No problem
Did anybody notice how unhappy the big cat and the other owner looked...
Shouldn’t they look happy that the season is about to begin and the the money tree will start filling their full pockets again. Alas, they look unhappy. Is it because they know this isn’t really the end and it is just a publicity stunt designed to pressure the players? Is it because the owners did their part, but they know the spiteful players union will now go into a feet dragging stall to try punish the owners by cancelling more games and losing more revenue?
I think they're just tired, man. And they don't want to look like they're celebrating anything...
they have to look like it was painful and they gave up a lot, until the players ratify it. What kills me is that the player reps I heard on NFLN last night were saying they didn’t have a deal to look at, didn’t know what was in it, and that the owners were trying to strong-arm them. To me, that’s just a crazy-ass PR play. The only way the players don’t know the deal would be if D. Smith and the negotiating team haven’t been DOING THEIR JOBS. It’s all B.S. and everything will be done in a day or two.
It does piss me off that the NFLPA negotiators felt the need to spew venom and upset their once and future membership that way. Needless histrionics, period.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
this whole thing is dumb
smith sucks, IMO. He has this negative attitude like it’s us against them, so everytime the owners say something, he looks for a trick. And then these young players follow his lead. It’s garbage. It’s a win-win for everyone except fans. If the owners don’t get a big enough share of the pie, the enlarge the pie by raising prices. So if the players truly get everything they want, we’re the ones who will be paying for it, None of the players are going to have to start this season with a paycut, unless they earned it like Reggie Bush earned a paycut. So none of them are getting screwed. It would be different if Senn and some other guys actually read it and had counter points to it, but that’s not the case.
does this help or hurt the owners with free agency
I’m just curious who has the edge. I figure if you are a player, you might want to test free agency, but it could get ugly. I wouldn’t want to miss training camp because I’m looking for a team. But at the same time, if the owners wanna keep a player, and only have 72 hours to make it work, they can’t start off with a low-ball offer. For our players, they have to learn a new playbook, schemes and strategy anyway. A guy like D-Will would be alright regardless. But if you’re missing training camp because you’re waiting for a better offer, you could be setting yourself up for failure. I wonder what players are thinking who are free agents. Some just want the most money possible, but some guys know they need a training camp to be in shape and successful.
Could the players have done the same thing last week?
Could the players of completed and passed their own version of the CBA last week which would then put the owners in the same situation?
If you really want to do something, you will find a way. If you don't, you will find an excuse.
No way this as a fast one.
I think the players that gave the immediate reaction where completely over reacting. Someone had to take the first vote.
If you really want to do something, you will find a way. If you don't, you will find an excuse.
Agreed...
If both sides waited to react to the first move, then nothing would ever get done.
I think the backlash is a result of players not knowing what’s going on, and wanting to make the owners look bad to gain fan sympathy.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
This sounds like nothing more than a little side note being completely misinterpreted by the players not directly "in the know"...
I base this mainly on the fact that the people who are directly responsible for disseminating such info to the players don’t seem to be all that upset with it (they at least seem to think it’s not a big enough deal to hold up a vote, and they’re the ones who have actually read the documents). That being said though, I thought it was interesting to read that the players are now entitled to 55% of TV revenue over the course of the new CBA; maybe they can quit whining about not getting their “fair share” of the revenue pie, considering what a gold mine that already is/will become over the next decade (especially if, god willing, the contract with DirectTV is allowed to expire and they open it up to the cable providers, who supply 60% of the country with TV/Internet)?
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Now tell me what happens if the players don't agree to a deal by Tuesday?
All hell breaks lose
Sooo me, Cam, Ron, Marty, Don, Chud, Sean, Mike and Jerry are going out to have some Cammy Cam juice... Who's coming?
I couldn't agree more brother J
I love our players, but this whole thing brings back a memory… (supposedly) The Big Cat basically telling Drew Brees to sit down and be quiet because he didn’t know what he was talking about.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Hanlon's Razor
I know its been said here before but I need to vent for a minute.
What a bunch of BS. I understand it’s a power play by the players but this is ridiculous.
They had the first opportunity to vote on Wednesday and passed on that opportunity but said they tentatively approved what was in front of them. I was watching all day yesterday and Goodell and Smith were supposedly in touch all day long and everybody thought they were working out details that each could sell to their side. My assumption anyhow was that Goodell and Smith were working out the details that had made the players remain ‘tentative’ and that they would essentially be getting the same deal that they had conditionally approved with a few tweaks to make them happy. Then all of a sudden they act like they are blind sided by a completely different agreement?? Even if they hadn’t seen this ‘new deal’ wouldn’t it be pretty much the exact same thing with few enough changes that Smith could have explained the changes to them on the conference call?
Lastly, I’m not entirely sure on the details… but what the hell did the players give up? From what I see they are getting pretty much a 50/50 revenue split, a shortened training camp, less than 1 padded practice per week and what they are asking for in shorter initial contracts.
OK, venting done, but good god man, it seems like the owners have bent quite a bit and then taken care of business and the players are just being ridiculous.
Exactly
They had the first shot to put pressure on the owners and get this deal done.. They passed on that and now there mad at the owners for taking advantage of the opportunity they passed on. Thats straight bullshit and now they are making the whole NFL fanbase play a waiting game while they bitch about a deal the negotiated.
Sooo me, Cam, Ron, Marty, Don, Chud, Sean, Mike and Jerry are going out to have some Cammy Cam juice... Who's coming?
I'm a little surprised actually by some of the ignorance, business wise, of the players..
is it any wonder so many of them end up broke within 5 years of retiring?
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
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