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How often will the Panthers use a 3-4 defense?

New Panthers HC Ron Rivera (BAMF) has coached a 4-3 defense and a 3-4 defense both  to #1 overall defensive rankings. This is impressive. So he knows, clearly, how to make both schemes work. Because of this, I think the Panthers would be remiss to not use any 3-4 wrinkles along with our 4-3 base defense.

Chances are Rivera and new DC Sean McDermott will have some 3-4 looks up their sleeves, if nothing else than to give the opposing offenses another 'something' to prepare for during the week.

Check out the situations in which we might use the 3-4, and who the personnel might be when we use it...after the jump.

Star-divide

When will we run it you ask? Well, the 3-4 is a good scheme against the run. It is easier to disguise a blitz in a 3-4 defense. So we may see the 3-4 defense often on first down, when teams run the ball about 50-60% of the time.

As stated above, we may also see a 3-4 set when we decide to blitz--whether it be a run blitz or a pass blitz. With four linebackers, there are more combinations of blitzers who you can send to sack the QB (or stuff the run). Because the offensive line does not know who is blitzing, it is easier to get a free rusher, untouched to the QB (or ball-carrier).

Typically, from play to play, 3-4 defenses will frequently blitz at least one of their four LBs in a 3-4 set, and more often they'll blitz one of the outside LBs from the edge, specifically if he is matched up against a smaller TE or a RB.

If I had to guess, I'd say that we will use a 3-4 set a maximum of 8-10 times a game. The reason we can't run it more than that is simple:

We do not have the personnel to do so. But, let's take a look at how the defensive players on our roster fit (or don't fit) into a 3-4 scheme...

Nose Tackle

In a 3-4 you have a massive nose tackle sitting right over the offensive center who's job is to occupy as many offensive lineman as he can. He is the anchor of the entire defense. When he is moved off his spot, the defense is much more susceptible to longer runs, and the QB has a cleaner pocket to step-up into.

We don't really have a guy who is the prototypical NFL NT. Seone Fua, a third-round pick out of Stanford is the closest thing we have to a nose tackle. He played the position at Stanford, in their base 3-4 defense. He is only about 310 pounds, however, and ideally you want your NT to be at least 330 pounds. Good NTs never reach free agency, so it may be hard to add any quality to this position before the season starts. So, when the Panthers align in the 3-4, Fua will need to play big and dig in. The NT fulfilling his role is essential to the success of a 3-4 set.

3-4 Defensive End

Your 3-4 defensive ends are usually a little bigger than 4-3 ends, as they need to anchor against the run, and need to be able to hold the point against a OT/OG double team. They will spend the majority of their snaps battling a guard or a tackle (or both), so you want them to be 280 pounds or more (ideally closer to 300).

Charles Johnson could play "the 5-technique" with his strength and power, even if he is a little on the small side for the position.

Greg Hardy needs to develop a little physically, but we could sit him on the right side (typically the weak-side) of the formation where he could chase instead of having to anchor.

We might also see third-round pick Terrell McClain (South Florida) play some 5-tech, as he is the perfect size at 6'3" or 6'4" and 300lbs.

So despite what you may think on the first glance, we do actually have two or three guys on the D-line who could play DE in a 3-4 look. The trend now is to find more athletic 3-4 DEs, and if Johnson and Hardy are one thing it is athletic.

3-4 Outside Linebacker

The 3-4 OLBs are basically 4-3 DEs who excel at both rushing the passer and dropping back into coverage. When teams are in obvious passing situations, one or both of the 3-4 OLB will more than likely be free to rush the passer, as these two players are supposed to be the best pure pass rushers on the defense.

A 3-4 OLB will usually be rushing the QB against an OT (the offense's best pass blockers). Because of this, 3-4 OLBs are larger than 4-3 OLBs (and closer in size to 4-3 DEs). The ideal size is probably 6'3" and about 250-265 lbs.

Everette Brown fell in the draft because teams considered him a little "to stiff" to play 3-4 OLB. But, he has the speed to chase plays down from the back-side, and he has enough awareness and agility to sit in the flat when asked to drop into coverage. Obviously if the Panthers line-up in a 3-4 set and Brown is playing OLB, the play would be designed for him to rush the passer. He could do so quite effectively, particularly when the offense decided to try and block him with a TE or back.

Eric Norwood fell a little in the draft as well because teams had doubts about his coverage ability, hence making him a better fit as a 4-3 DE. He, like Brown, is athletic enough to cover a flat and chase a play from the backside. He, in my opinion, is a better pure pass rusher than Brown, because he has power moves to counter his finesse game. Norwood should be unleashed to rush the passer or ball-carrier if he sees playing-time as a 3-4 OLB, so the coverage concerns frankly would not concern me.

Even with their perceived weaknesses, I think we would be able to line Brown and Norwood up at OLB in our 3-4 look a few times a game and be fine. But they are, due to coverage inadequacies, not ideal fits in an every-down 3-4 defense.

In case you think I forgot about them, our projected starters at OLB in our base 4-3 (Thomas Davis and James Anderson) are not great fits as 3-4 OLBs. Neither Davis or Anderson is big enough to effectively rush the passer against an offensive tackle. Both players would be better utilized as 3-4 MLBs--if/when we're in a 3-4 set.

3-4 Middle Linebacker

Middle linebackers in a 3-4 vary in size, because you have two of them with different responsibilities. Most 3-4 teams will refer to one of them as the "Mike" and the other one as the "Jack." The Mike is the true MLB. He is generally quite big for a MLB because with only three men on the DL, at least one of the five offensive lineman will make it to the second level. More often than not this is one of the OGs (or sometimes the OC). So the Mike linebacker's job (against the run) is to crack heads with a OG, and that's why he needs to be 250lbs+.  Against the pass, the Mike MLB will either blitz the QB or drop back and cover a back or TE, but the Mike is not really required to cover very much.

Dan Connor and James Anderson would work in this position, but both of them are closer to 240lbs than 250, so we might be a little small at the Mike spot. Between the two, Connor fits this position a little better.

The other MLB spot, the Jack, is a different cat. He will have assignments that require more movement and coverage skills. He still needs to have a nose for the ball-carrier in the run game, and be a decent blitzer, but he must excel in coverage.

Jon Beason comes to mind when thinking about a Jack MLB. Thomas Davis would also be more than serviceable in this position.

Again, don't expect to see a 3-4 alignment more than ten times a game. And looking at it position by position, you can see why. We just don't have the size to do it. There has been speculation that Ron Rivera would prefer to slowly transition over to a 3-4. I'm not sure this is the case, being that he hired a DC who has no experience coaching a 3-4. But if Rivera brings in a highly coveted NT or 3-4 DE in next year's draft, or in free agency over the next couple of seasons, that may be a strong inclination that he does indeed want to transition to a 3-4. But right now it is not a feasible option.

And one final note: You will see the Panthers lineup with only three men on the line more than ten times a game, but just because there are only three "down lineman" doesn't mean they are in a 3-4 set. Most teams will "rush three and drop eight" to defend the pass. This set has three lineman, two linebackers, and six defensive backs, and is not quite the same thing as a true 3-4 set.

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I suspect we won't even see 3-4 looks until beyond 6 weeks, maybe 1-2 gimmicks a game

No point working up the special package when you’re working to solidify the core package. I was also surprised to see they plan to exclusively play Norwood at DE, so there’s a good possibility he’ll be asked to bulk up and won’t see the 4-3 OLB game. Couldn’t TD play the side with the strong safety for blitzes, so runs to that side would have third-level coverage? He’s certainly unconventional for a 3-4 OLB, but he has a knack for getting in the backfield on our 4-3 blitzes so I could see him used to tie up a tackle solely with speed.

by ppalm on Jun 28, 2011 3:41 PM EDT reply actions  

I think you're right in that TD could play OLB in a 3-4

But as you said, they’d have to scheme around his less than ideal size.

Obviously, he does not have the kind of body to pass rush 1v1 against an OT consistently. But you’re right. He is an excellent blitzer.

"Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a sh!t about the rules? Mark it zero! "

by ERL on Jun 28, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

fixed
I was also surprised to see they plan to exclusively play Norwood at DE, so there’s a good possibility he’ll be asked to bulk up and won’t see the 4-3 3-4 OLB game

by ppalm on Jun 28, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good stuff ERL

I think ~10X per game is a fair guess as to how much we’ll see the 3-4 set. I like the thought of McDermott being able to confuse the offense by using exotic blitz packages. One thing his mentor Jim Johnson (RIP) was known for was the ability to blitz anyone at any time and completely confuse the offense in regards to who was coming from where.

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by BW Smith on Jun 28, 2011 4:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks for the FP love.

I remember when we would mention McDermott as a possible HC’ing candidate before they hired BAMF. To get him as our DC is just indescribably awesome. Both he and Rivera are going to put this defense back on the map in a hurry.

And the change in philosophy (to a much more aggressive scheme) is more than invited. Keeping Meeks on the back-end is really sweet, too. I think he has the ability be the best secondary coach in the league.

"Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a sh!t about the rules? Mark it zero! "

by ERL on Jun 28, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

How do you know it was me? ;)

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by BW Smith on Jun 28, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay, it was me…but the article deserves the recognition. Nice job.

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by BW Smith on Jun 28, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks. Been workin on this one for a while.

"Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a sh!t about the rules? Mark it zero! "

by ERL on Jun 28, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice post.

One thing about TD is he’s bigger and stronger than he looks. Dude’s pushing 245.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Jun 28, 2011 4:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks, BBA.

Yeah I keep forgetting that he has gotten bigger since coming in to the league. His rookie season he was like 227. I guess once he knew that he’d be a full-time LB he bulked up a little. Apparently he has put on some more good weight since his first ACL. If he’s 245 then he is actually bigger than Pittsburgh’s James Harrison, who bull-rushes OTs all the time.

"Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a sh!t about the rules? Mark it zero! "

by ERL on Jun 28, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was completely surprised when I found out how big he actually was.

Although there is the chance they are listing his weight a little bigger than he is, but I think he’d be a pretty nasty 3-4 OLB.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Jun 28, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

he ran a 4.47 last year in TC before his injury.

Gettis ran a 4.43. TD can get DeMarcus Ware like sack numbers.

by usana_gaines on Jun 28, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

the best LBs in the league

The LBs who are considered the best ILBs in the league are 3-4 LBs. When you mention the best MLB, you often mention Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis. London Fletcher also comes to mind. Don’t forget about Harry Carson and Mike Singletary. These guys had other ILBs playing along with them. They were free to read and react, and make a play on the ball. If Harry Carson guessed wrong on a play, Gary Reason was there to stay at home, and make the play. Connor is a superior tackler, and a smart player. He can sit back and make plays, reading the offense and reacting like he did last year in the middle. At the same time, Beason will be able to take greater advantage of his talents. He can attack more, the way Ray Lewis does when he knows the middle of the defense is secure while he attacks the backfield, stuffing the run or getting a sack.

It’s going to be crazy. I’m gonna love it.

by usana_gaines on Jun 28, 2011 4:19 PM EDT reply actions  

I really like the thought of Beason and Connor next to each other, too.

And it solves the problem as to how to get Connor on the field.

"Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a sh!t about the rules? Mark it zero! "

by ERL on Jun 28, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't The Bears Singletary Play In A 4-3 Defense?

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the Bears defense with Singletary play a 4-3 defense?

Singletary has coached a 3-4 defense with the Ravens and 49ers though.

by PanthersRoar on Jun 28, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

The bears played that 4-6 defense.

You know:
                  FS
CB SS MLB CB
       DE DT DT DE OLB OLB

"Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a sh!t about the rules? Mark it zero! "

by ERL on Jun 29, 2011 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

KEEP IT AS IT IS

i say keep the 4-3 and just do a 3-4 when we have a big lead. we dont have the DE or NT to play that defence. i hope we do sign some good DE or WR.

by lazyjay47 on Jun 28, 2011 4:27 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree. Maybe use it 5-10 times a game.

The best time to use it might be if the offense has found a rhythm in the passing game against our 4-3, or if we need some additional run support (since the 3-4 is essentially a 5-2 with the two ends being in a two-point stance).

"Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a sh!t about the rules? Mark it zero! "

by ERL on Jun 28, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good post ERL. I think Rivera will make this team D a multiple look D. As in we have specialists in the 4-3 (both Rivera and McDermott), the 3-4 (Rivera) and the Cover-2 system (Meeks).

I think it is fair to say that the team will meld all three styles of play into their defensive playbook. Meeks’ Cover-2 I think will definitely still be in some sort of use, seeing as though the team has used it the past couple of seasons with pretty good success. However, I think Rivera will roll that in with his and McDermott’s D. I don’t see them abandoning Meeks’ experience.

All this leads to is a nasty, multiple look D that, if utilized correctly with the right personnel, will be nearly impossible to gameplan and play against, simply due the shear amount of ways we can set the team up in. The offense could come out there expecting the 4-3, only to have a Cover-2 scheme in play, or vice-versa.

It will be exciting to see the defense play out there. More aggressive and a lot harder to play against.

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by Ivan459 on Jun 28, 2011 5:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Def something to think about

But I doubt we will use it this upcoming season. We don’t have the size/talent on the defensive line at the moment IMO..

by SFImam on Jun 28, 2011 6:31 PM EDT reply actions  

I can see the Panthers using it some this coming season despite the size limitations

It’s not going to be full time, and I doubt it will be a very traditional 3-4 anyways, so I don’t think size limitations will come into play as much as we might think.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Jun 29, 2011 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fua can develop into a prototypical NFL NT

Its not difficult to put on 20 lbs by doing an intense workout program and bulking up. I think if his work ethic and talent are good he may be a force on the line.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained...sometimes you have to go against the grain.

by Disciple of Carolina on Jun 28, 2011 7:31 PM EDT reply actions  

The Panthers Have No 3-4 Defensive Players

The Panthers just don’t have any players that fit a 3-4 defense, and in this years draft at every opportunity drafted 4-3 defensive players rather than 3-4 players. At #97 they drafted a small NT in Sione Fua (6-1 1/8, 308, 5.28-40, 1.77-10), who will need a year to put on another 15 pounds of good weight, if he adds that weight for this year it won’t be good weight, just fat that will harm his already poor movement skills. At #166 they drafted a small WLB in Lawrence Wilson (6-0 7/8, 229, 4.75-40, a Pro Day 4.56-40, 1.68-10) who can only play in a 4-3 defense.

The Panthers don’t have a big 3-4 ILB. Jon Beason (6-0, 237) would be OK if paired with a big 250 pound ILB, but Dan Connor (6-2, 231) is even a little small for a 4-3 MLB. SLB James Anderson (6-2, 235), if he re-signs, is too small for a 3-4 OLB. WLB Thomas Davis (6-0, 240) if he’s fully recovered, and re-signed, is small for a 3-4 OLB, with the slim legs of a DB. Davis and Beason have the speed to cover sideline to sideline as the other 2 LB’s blitz, but Davis had (I hope still dose) the best speed for blitzing of the Panthers LB’s. Davis has a good back up in Jason Williams (6-1, 246, 4.44-40), if he’s fully recovered from his injury.

The Panthers don’t have a DE among Greg Hardy (6-4, 277), Charles Johnson (6-2, 275), and the probably to be cut Tyler Brayton (6-6, 280) who can shift to a 3-4 OLB. Everette Brown (6-1, 256) can drop back off the line to a 3-4 OLB, while Eric Norwood (6-1, 241) and Hilee Taylor (6-2, 250) would probably fit best as 3-4 OLB’s.

If the Panthers lose Charles Johnson as a free agent, then they may be forced to play a mixed 4-3/3-4 defense, with Everette Brown starting at DE oposit Hardy, able to drop back to 3-4 OLB on any play. This would be mush better by using the on field 4-3 personel in the 3-4, and not giving the play away by the substitution of 2-4 players. However, those players shifting in this switch are all better in the 4-3 than the 3-4 defense.

Finally, a positive note, LOL. Some good 3-4 players went undrafted, and the Panthers should rush to sign some (at least the first 2) these players (giving them the around $25,000 signing bonus as they have in the past).

MLB/SLB Mario Harvey (5-10 7/8, 257, 4.43-40), they said he ran like a WR at his workout, but surprisingly has very little experience in coverage, because Marshall prefered to keep him in as a blitzer, even playing some DE. He could play SLB in a 4-3, and then shift to ILB with Beason in a 3-4, with great speed to shoot through any gaps that develop in the blocking skeem.

NT Anthony Gray (5-11 3/4, 330, 5.17-40, 39 bench reps) of Southern Miss. He’s biger, stronger, and faster than Fua.

NT Blake Sumner (6-1 1/8, 335, 5.38-40, 1.82-10, 45 bench reps) from the Colorado School of Mines

NT Dexter Larimore (6-2 5/8, 319, 5.11-40) of Ohio St.

NT Lawton Scott (6-1, 318, 5.32-40) of Mississippi St.

OLB/DE Ugo Chinasa (6-4 7/8, 264, 36 inch arms, 4.65-40, 1.65-10) of Oklahoma St.

OLB/DE Marc Schiechl (6-1 1/8, 251, 33 7/8 inch arms, 4.65-40, 1.65-40, 38 bench reps, 35 inch vertical, 10-5 broad jump) from the Colorado School of Mines. He had 46 career sacks.

OLB/DE Eddie Jones (6-2, 258, 4.75-40) of Texas

No DT’s who can shift out to DE are available among the UDFA’s. The Panthers should really have drafted DT/DE Christian Ballard (6-3 3/4, 283, 4.70-40, 1.65-10) of Nebraska, in place of NT Sione Fua at #97, as a pass rushing DT, who could provide insurance at DE, just in case they lose Charles Johnson as a free agent. Ballard would have give the Panthers a good DT to shift to DE, when switching into a 3-4 defense.

Given that most teams now play a nickle defense 50-60% of the time, the Panthers will likely play a 3 man front more often than not. However, if they lose DE Charles Johnson in free agency, they could find themselves in a 3-4 around 25-30% of the time, and playing a 3 man front 75-80% of the time.

by PanthersRoar on Jun 28, 2011 11:32 PM EDT reply actions  

We probably won't be your traditional 3-4.

We’ll rely more on quickness and aggressiveness rather than size to hit the opposing offense before they know what’s coming. Fua may not be your traditional size, but neither is Jay Ratliff. As long as he commands the double team and can hold his ground, we’ll be fine. We’re in trouble if we lose Johnson, but him and Mclain would fit at the 5 technique. As for LB’s, Connor does an excellent job of finding the ball in traffic, which makes up for his less than ideal size. Beast is Beast. And Davis has a knack for rushing the passer. Anderson is probably the odd man out here, but either Brown or Norwood could fill in at the other linebacker spot and do an adequate job. We’re not running this as a base defense, so the deficiencies we have will be masked to some extent.

Yes I'm a dude.

by Flowing Willow on Jun 28, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sione Fua Is No Jay Ratliff

I’m sorry to disagree with you “Flowing Willow”, but Jay Ratliff and Sione Fua are nothing alike, just look at their Combine numbers.

Sione Fua: 6-1 1/8, 308, 5.28-40, 1.77-10, 30 bench reps

Jay Ratliff: 6-4, 292, 4.85-40, (now 6-4, 303)

Earl Mitchell : 6-2, 296, 4.75-40, 1.56-10

Ratliff overcomes his lack of size, with great speed and movement skills, but Fua has poor movement skills, and a lack of speed (the same 5.28-40 time as 346 pound NT Kenrick Ellis. Wade Phillips will try to revisit his success with Ratliff this season, by playing Earl Mitchell at NT for the Texans. Fua was able to play NT in college, but at 308 pounds he won’t be able to hold his ground against bigger/stronger NFL O-Linemen, until he can bulk up to at least 320-325 pounds of good solid weight by his 2nd year. He might could have bulked up enough for this season without the lockout, and weight training with an NFL strength coach as soon as he was drafted.

by PanthersRoar on Jun 29, 2011 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well first off, I think far too much stock is put into combine numbers.

And I think he was putting Jay Ratliff out there saying “Sione Fua is the next Jay Ratliff” or anything of the sort.

It’s just an example that size isn’t everything.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Jun 29, 2011 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s just an example that size isn’t everything.

That’s not what she said.

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by BW Smith on Jun 29, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

lol

It’s a balance of size and technique. Both must be taken into account.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Jun 29, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

The meat does play a role, though. There is a minimum meat size requirement. =)

"One play can win a game, but one play cannot lose a game." - Coach Peterson, Boise St.

"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera

by jamiedk on Jul 1, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

I must say...well played.

"One play can win a game, but one play cannot lose a game." - Coach Peterson, Boise St.

"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera

by jamiedk on Jul 1, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying Fua is the next Ratliff.

Few are. But to say you have to be big to play the NT is false. The only thing you have to do is hold your ground against the double team. Sure it helps if you’re 325+, but it’s not absolutely necessary.

Yes I'm a dude.

by Flowing Willow on Jun 29, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

He has had some good snaps and some bad snaps at NT.

Here he is against the 2nd best team in the nation last season…

)Notice that there are three or four plays starting at the :50 second mark where he gets rag-dolled by a double-team. Some of that is technique, thankfully.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St0Zyeh43ow

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by ERL on Jun 29, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Technique is going to be his biggest challenge.

From what I saw he looks good when he uses his hands, especially in the pass rush. A lot more than you’d expect from a guy his size.

Yes I'm a dude.

by Flowing Willow on Jun 29, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes he does have some pass rush ability.

And he is quick for his size, too.

I just worry about him getting his shoulders turned too easily. He needs to try to keep his shoulders square against a run-blocking lineman, or two…Stack and Shed. Instead, he kind of tried to turn sideways and anchor, and ended up getting pancaked from the back by the double-teaming guard.

But he should be able to learn how to consistently use his hands pretty quickly. In fact, that is probably the first thing you hear when rookie D-lineman talk about adjusting to the NFL.

"Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a sh!t about the rules? Mark it zero! "

by ERL on Jun 29, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

You have essentially recited the article.

And there is absolutely no way that Dan Connor is 231lbs.

"Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a sh!t about the rules? Mark it zero! "

by ERL on Jun 29, 2011 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I could argue with you for ages about which D is better against the run.

But I’ll save us the trouble and just agree to disagree.

I officially declare this draft class: The Bojangles Collard Greens Dream Team!

by McHuff on Jun 29, 2011 9:11 AM EDT reply actions  

For us, maybe the 4-3, maybe not.

If you have big OLBs, and a big, immovable NT, running against a 3-4 can be difficult.

Most teams will counter a 3-4 with a two TE set so every defensive player at or near the LOS is covered.

Getting to the outside is easier against a 4-3 defense, unless we talk about moving LBs down to the LOS.

"Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a sh!t about the rules? Mark it zero! "

by ERL on Jun 29, 2011 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see us placing much emphasis on a 3-4 alignment...as has been said before, maybe 10 times a game

Yes, Rivera just came from coordinating a 3-4, but has greater experience with the 4-3. And McDermott has pretty much only coached a 4-3. What I DO see as a the strongest possibility is heavy use of the 4-3 zone blitz (McDermott’s forte) and Rivera helping to tweak it with his dual knowledge of both base defensive systems.

Because we do have 3 DE/OLB ‘tweeners on the team (although I don’t know how long we can continue justifying Hilee’s roster spot), we will have some interesting options at masking our intent. That will be our best hope: deception. We’re not going to overpower anyone on defense…we’ll have to out hustle ‘em and maximize our speed. Because of that, I don’t expect to see too much of an improvement in run defense, but I think we can terrorize the offense when they drop back to pass. THAT will be our bread and butter..sacks, fumbles, and interceptions. To be successful at it, we’re going to see a lot of MLB and DB blitzes, given McDermott’s background. I’d think it’ll be a 50-50 split of those blitzes to OLB blitzes. Anything else and I believe we’re just an average defense.

by Mr_Sticky on Jun 29, 2011 6:34 PM EDT reply actions  

However...
I don’t expect to see too much of an improvement in run defense

That’s a major problem in any games against the boar-hunting bulldozer and leaper of tall buildings otherwise known as Hillis of the Cleveland Browns. It may be somewhat of an issue when we play the Saints, because Ingram is a great all-around back (at least he will be if he makes a smooth transition to the NFL). I don’t know that run defense is going to be as much of an issue now in any games against the Falcons. I expect they’re going to give Turner a little bit of a break because Ryan can throw to Roddy White, Julio Jones, and Tony Gonzales all day long. Cap’n did surprisingly well against White in the last game, so White really might not be as much of an issue as we might think. I think Julio Jones will be a nightmare if he improves his hands. He’s ridiculously tough. The defense is going to have to have much sounder tackling technique, or Jones is going to be shedding tackles left-and-right and gaining YAC. But Gonzales may still be an issue because at least as of last season, our defense couldn’t do crap against TEs. Hopefully, the covering of TEs issue will be much improved this coming season.

I hope that our new staff helps cure a lot of those weak areas that we had from last season. Generally speaking, we really did have a pretty strong defense considering the amount of time that they were on the field. They had to be absolutely exhausted, and that has to affect your effectiveness. It also didn’t help that Marshall was apparently one of the weakest CBs in the league. Hogan looks like a beast, so I do think he’ll improve the secondary whenever he’s able to make it to the field (I don’t want him rushed out there and re-injure his ACL). And if Joseph could be attained, the secondary could be pretty freaking awesome.

Anyway, I’m very excited to know that the defense will be giving a lot of different looks and disguises, and I’m excited to see how they will use the personnel in 4-3 and 3-4 fronts. Maybe having some tweeners really will be to our advantage (at least, I hope so).

"One play can win a game, but one play cannot lose a game." - Coach Peterson, Boise St.

"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera

by jamiedk on Jul 1, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

(rec'd) The lockout hurts, and likely will cause some growing pains in learning the new scheme,

but I’m excited with what Rivera/McDermott (and Meeks) are going to create. By mid-year, I expect us to be a feared defense that creates havoc and turnovers. We may need to pick up a stop-gap corner and NT, and definitely should resign our LBs (including Anderson, who I think is gets far too little love by many on this site).
Stop-gap corner – I’d try for Ike Taylor; he’s done a respectable job primarily against #1 opposing WRs.
NT – Aubrayo Franklin would be an exciting addition.

Has anybody seen Otah. What, did he just fall off the planet, or become a new one?

by Rick Bates on Jul 1, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anderson...
definitely should resign our LBs (including Anderson, who I think is gets far too little love by many on this site).

I think a large part of the “too little love” is because most think the both Anderson and CJ are due for big pay raises and are valuable players, but that CJ is a little more of a priority because of his massive play, the lack of quality depth at DE, and the quality depth at LB. I do think that most people hope they’re both re-signed. It just seems like it would be less of a blow to lose Anderson because of the depth at LB. Losing CJ would be a huge blow.

Anderson is a fantastic player, and he deserves some love. If anyone has the first game against the Saints from this past year, go back and watch it. Anderson was beyond beast mode in that game – and not just on defense, but on special teams, too. At least he gets some love from Doug Farrar on Yahoo. Almost any article in which Anderson could fit under the topic, Farrar gives him props – like articles about underrated defensive players, best potential FAs, best linebackers, etc. Farrar’s mentioned him many times over the past year.

"One play can win a game, but one play cannot lose a game." - Coach Peterson, Boise St.

"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera

by jamiedk on Jul 1, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think people feel we have too much invested in the LBs

Every one of our starting LBs, and one of our backup LBs, deserves at least $3m/yr, Beason commanding much more. That’s pretty incredible.

by ppalm on Jul 1, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep...

That Top 100 list is just so screwed up.

I don’t care for the guy personally, but looking at him strictly as a player, Big Ben should not be #41. It’s just wrong. Incredibly wrong. If you’re looking at what the guy does on the field (whether looking at the whole career or just 2010), he’s somewhere in the top 15.

I’ll give that Peppers should be on the list. I’m not sure where I’d put him – maybe around the middle of the pack. And yes, if you’re looking at 2010, CJ unquestionably should be on the list, and ahead of Peppers.

"One play can win a game, but one play cannot lose a game." - Coach Peterson, Boise St.

"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera

by jamiedk on Jul 1, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

While it's true the players cast votes that decide the order of the Top 100,

…it’s unlikely that many of the ‘voters’ in the contest have any idea of the talents or performances of the Panthers, much less Johnson. Reputation (read Peppers) gets a lot of votes in these things.

by bigdavis on Jul 1, 2011 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would think players would have a better idea of who to fear than we would.

After all, these are the guys that have to go up against those players every week…they are the ones who actually feel the fear. Keep in mind that the guys on that list require specific scheming by offenses/defenses to negate their effectiveness. And while it’s nearly impossible to completely prepare for, say, Manning, Brady, Breez, and Rivers, it’s far easier to prepare for a single player on defense. DT? Make sure you double-team him with a guard and center. CB? Throw away from him. DE? Don’t leave him on an island with an Offensive Tackle…or run to the middle/other side.

Charles Johnson, while obviously a VERY good DE, doesn’t have the body of work to merit that level of respect yet (while Peppers has had years to strike fear in opposing offenses. And fear, like Rome, can’t be built in a day; it’s built over a period of time). Peppers can beat you in multiple ways instead of the standard you expect from DE’s, typically sacks and tackles. Pep has shown a propensity to strip sack and force other fumbles…and is still athletic enough in his 30’s to make interceptions, blow by an O-lineman, and chase down a play from the opposite side of the line at any time. CJ, on the other hand, has a smaller palate of capabilities, but is VERY good at what he does.

All that being said, I DO believe CJ should have been on that list…but he doesn’t merit a higher placement than Peppers…at least not yet.

by Mr_Sticky on Jul 2, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Player's

Was for it looking like we will be playing some snaps with the 3-4 this year. We all know that we don’t have a Big NT to get the job done. And in some of the other erea’s as well. It looks like Shawne Merriman is gonna be out in Buffalo when the new CBA gets here. Should we (the Panthers) go after someone like Merriman??

Coach Rivera, may we please have one of these FA Nnamdi Asomugha or Jonathan Joseph

by Lazy Dog on Jul 4, 2011 10:59 AM EDT reply actions  

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