The (somewhat) magnificent seven- How rushing QBs faired their rookie season
by James Dator on May 13, 2011 9:37 AM EDT
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Have no fear CSR readers, we're really not trying to turn this place into 'Cam Scratch Reader', but when you draft a QB #1 overall for the first time in franchise history then it does without saying you're going to see a lot of time and energy being spent on analyzing them. Today I decided to go back to the rookie seasons of seven of the leagues most potent rushing QBs in their eras to see just how well their respective teams did with them at the helm.
The reason for this analysis is twofold: Firstly, it aims to determine whether this idea that Newton can step in and immediately win games for Carolina is a myth and secondly it will try and see if being a rushing QB actually makes it easier transitioning into the NFL. After all, running backs are seen to be one of the most easily translatable positions from college to the NFL, because the basic tenets of their game remain the same.
The metric I used (as simple as it is) was to determine a 'rushing quarterback' as one who averaged approximately 50 yards per game on the ground per NFL start. The exceptions to this rule are Fran Tarkenton, Steve McNair and Steve Young- all of whom would be considered some of the top rushing QBs to ever play the game, but they fell short of this 50 yard mark. I chalk this up to being a product of the NFL when they played the bulk of their games.
More after the jump
I call this list the 'somewhat' magnificent seven because honestly, I'm not comfortable calling Tim Tebow or Vince Young "magnificent", but regardless they need to be a part of this list. I'm looking solely at these player's rookie season starts, and comparing it to their team's prior season record. So, without further ado lets look at our rushing QBs:
Vick only started two games in 2001, so he makes it harder to truly evaluate him than any other QB on this list. That being said, the Falcons went 4-12 in 2000 (0.250) and under Vick they went 1-1 (0.500). It's important to not he stepped in and played significant time in two more losses, but ultimately that's not the purpose of this study so Vick's record as a starter is 1-1.
Vince Young
The 2005 Tennessee Titans went 4-12 (0.250) which allowed them to draft Vince Young in the 2006 draft. Young started 13 games for the Titans, and they went 8-5 (0.615) with Young starting at QB.
Fran Tarkenton
This one needs to fall outside of the rubric I set for this study solely because I can't find game logs that predate 1970, so I can't tell what games Tarkenton started his rookie year. I will, however, look at his 1970 season with the New York Giants (his first with the organization). The 1969 Giants finished the season 6-8 (0.428) and when Tarkenton took over as QB in 1970 they went 9-5 (0.642).
Randall Cunningham
The 1984 Eagles finished the season 6-9-1 (0.375) before drafting Randall Cunningham. In 1985 he started 6 games and finished with a record of 2-4 (0.333) as a starter.
Steve Young
Young was selected by the Tamp Bay Buccaneers in the 1985 draft, and most know his brief time there was tumultuous. Regardless, the Bucs went 6-10 (0.375) in 1984, and 1-4 (0.200) with Young as a starter in 1985.
Steve McNair
The Houston Oilers had the #1 pick in the 1995 NFL draft after finishing the 1994 season at 2-14 (0.125). McNair started 6 games for Houston in 1995 and they finished 2-4 (0.333) with him as a starter.
Tim Tebow
The most recent edition to our list was also the most unsure QB selected in the draft. Analysts thought the Denver Broncos reached for the Heisman trophy winner. The 2009 Denver Broncos went 8-8 (0.500) under Josh McDaniels and with Tebow as a 3 game starter in 2010 they went 1-2 (0.333).
Overall analysis
While this is a very small sample size, and I see the flaw in trying to use this to predict future success it's undeniable that as a whole teams were better with their running QBs starting:
- Without their rushing QBs these teams combined for a record of 36-73-1 (0.327)
- With their rushing QBs in their first season these teams combined for 24-25 (0.489)
The point of this exercise wasn't to rally people around the idea that the Panthers will be drastically improved in 2011, but show that this idea that teams can't win without a prototypical QB under center their first season is a fallacy. The past has shown us that there is no good reason we can't see significant gains from 2010-2011 with Newton under center, but ultimately it will be up to his work ethic and the organization to manage the team from the ground up.
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I think Newton can be a "prototypical QB."
Or, better yet, he can show the world what a prototypical QB should look like.
Nihilists! F@ck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
He can be a NEW prototype.
None of the examples used for comparison is as tall, or as big, as he is.
I don’t think (though it’s just an assumption, subject to correction by one who might) that any of them had the rushing results in college, either, which is probably more important than his size, which is relative to the bigger defensive players than the earlier QBs faced.
I like the thought of the thread, and don’t disagree with it – just trying to expand on the concept.
I guess I take ownership of the one who might disagree but
believe it or not, I don’t and almost all of these guys were more scramblers than runners but by design.. I also agree that ALL players are getting bigger, stronger and faster every year. We are in the era of 6’5" 320lb. linemen with 5% body fat and sub 5.0 forty times.35 years ago Cam would have been an NBA center or the greatest TE in the game. Historically coaches and owners don’t want their biggest investment ( I estimate 60 mil. guaranteed after a conflict but I could be wrong) running wild against this new class of athletes.. The formations he ran at Auburn are really not new and indefensible. Yes it was the shotgun but it was the shotgun option which he or someone else chose him to run the ball 45% of the time. The Wildcat was “new” but actually a century old and look where it’s gone. Let him use his feet but more like an Elway or Steve Young, to get out of trouble or bootleg because he does throw fairly well on the run and the occasional QB draw even…But we have great running backs and running is why their careers are short and the running game will change drastically for them when adjusted for Cam because of the shotgun and lack of a lead blocking back (Hoover!). Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t blame all our poor running game last year on the O line but on the loss of Hoover. Don’t throw this kid out there as rookie to run the ball 20 times a game or he’ll lose a knee or get a careers worth of concussions in a month..Let him learn NFL coverages for a year because if you look at film a lot of his receivers were wide open and he won’t have that now, he’ll be throwing to 89 or somebody double covered..Not to start it again but I hope we don’t send Cam out there unprepared and set him up to fail like they did Clausen. Regardless of what people think Clausen did not make it to the NFL by being a lousy QB. Now that we have Cam let’s teach him correctly and not ruin him with too high expectations.
by 7QBdraw on May 13, 2011 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Couldn't agree more!!!
I had to post this somewhere. That Charles Johnson tweet was awesome. We better resign him seeing as he is now my favorite Panther for sure
Last season was an abombination
and you can bet your ass when/if the Panthers take the field this year they will be better and with Cam in the backfield its gonna be something very exciting to watch. Watch out NFL the Panthers are gonna come out tearing shit up!!
—uberfan rant, who’s with me—
CAN'T WAIT!
The question is not how far. The question is, do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far is as needed? - El Duche
peter king said he expected us to score a lot of points in 2010
He thought we’d go 10-6. I predicted 11-5. The two obvious problems in the beginning were blocking and passing. Throw in a coupel draw plays to the TE, or a flea flicker for an 8 yard gain, and you see the problem. Take last year’s team and install a healthy Otah, and better play calling, and you get a better offense. Those two things are already done. Then we add healthy RBs, and more tiime of position, and we help the passing game and the defense. It’s a snowball effect. Cam is the icing on the cake.
Just to warn you, in every prediction post, I will declare that we will win the Superbowl. And I truly believe it.
by usana_gaines on May 13, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Those who daid we were gonna be bad last year
were just dumb lucky that our season turned out the way it did with injuries and Clausen’s poor play. I can’t wait to watch them eat thier words if they say it again this year.
CAN'T WAIT!
The question is not how far. The question is, do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far is as needed? - El Duche
correction - Those who said not daid
CAN'T WAIT!
The question is not how far. The question is, do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far is as needed? - El Duche
Something I'd be curious about...
Is to see how all of these QBs faired in their W-L record over their entire careers (I guess just taking into account the starts where they approximated 50 yards rushing). I know it puts Tebow at a disadvantage, because he only has 3 starts – Tebow has a much smaller body of “career work” to look at.
Anyway, if someone doesn’t want to do the research for that, I might do that, but because of my schedule, I probably couldn’t get it posted until very late tonight or early tomorrow morning. Let me know if someone else wants to take on a post like this. Otherwise, I’ll go for it whenever I get the time to do all of the research.
Initially, I do expect Cam’s running to be used fairly extensively in his first season. But with further training, I do think that over time, he’ll become more able to dissect things from the pocket and to work more in the pocket. At Auburn, he worked within the framework of the Auburn staff’s plan. Auburn used the system/philosphy they did because that’s the way that they believed THE TEAM had the best chance of winning – with their unspectacular receiving corp, Cam’s ability to run probably gave them the best chance to win.
I’m cautiously excited. (Sidenote: I’m considering making a video of highlights from some of the team’s young core and adding college highlights from the promising players coming in this season. Naturally, I think I’ll probably be featuring quite a bit of Cam.)
"One play can win a game, but one play cannot lose a game." - Coach Peterson, Boise St.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
not gonna do the research
I’m not going to look up all those guys records, but everyone of them has a winning record. Steve Young and Fran Tarkenton are in the Hall of Fame, and if we can include Tarkenton, we can include Roger Staubach. John Elway was also considered a runner. All those guys were winners and made it to the SUperbowl. Randall Cunningham, Vince Young, Michael Vick and Steve McNair also had very good won-loss records. Vick led the Falcons to the playoffs a couple times, including a trip to Philly to play another running QB, Donovan McNabb. We know how much success McNabb has had.
So of the QBs I consider to be runners, Steve Young, Elway, McNabb, McNair, Tarkenton and Staubach all made it to the superbowl. Cunningham and Vick made it to the Championship game. Tebow led the Broncos in rushing TDs last year. Young is mental case, and Vick finally started to get his head in the game last year.
The key to remember about Vick is the quality of coaching he had in Philly. With the same quality of coaching, Newton can be better than all these guys.
I fully expect us to win it all, mostly because of better play calling, fewer injuries, and simply being more talented than most other teams.
by usana_gaines on May 13, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I know there's been quite a bit of success amongst all of those...
I was just curious about more specific stats. I may just let it go or casually look up more info – it was just curiousity.
So…unless anyone in particular really wants to look into it, I’ll just forget about it.
"One play can win a game, but one play cannot lose a game." - Coach Peterson, Boise St.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
NOOOoooo....
I’m super lazy, but would LOVE to know the specific stats….PLEASE find the time to look it up….please? :)
"The Flabulous Count Fatula!"
by Totalscholar on May 13, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly...
After looking at James explaining his methodology in putting this together, I think I might get myself in over my head in trying to do that. So sorry, I’m probably going to flake on it.
The good news – I am currently working on the video that I mentioned above. =)
"One play can win a game, but one play cannot lose a game." - Coach Peterson, Boise St.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
For whomever wants the raw data to draw from, here it is:
http://www.nfl.com/players/michaelvick/profile?id=VIC311467
http://www.nfl.com/players/vinceyoung/profile?id=YOU617196
http://www.nfl.com/players/frantarkenton/profile?id=TAR369148
http://www.nfl.com/players/randallcunningham/profile?id=CUN664464
http://www.nfl.com/players/steveyoung/profile?id=YOU299670
http://www.nfl.com/players/stevemcnair/profile?id=MCN033803
http://www.nfl.com/players/timtebow/profile?id=TEB603856
http://www.nfl.com/players/rogerstaubach/profile?id=STA762496
http://www.nfl.com/players/johnelway/profile?id=ELW276861
http://www.nfl.com/players/donovanmcnabb/profile?id=MCN017517
Have fun…
The #5 mobile quarterback of all time - my favorite
Bobby Douglas
“He could throw the ball through a barn door, if he could hit a barn door” – Coach Abe Gibron
Has anybody seen Otah. What, did he just fall off the planet, or become a new one?
2 and 14 Panthers are better then their record.
I think Cam is walking into a better situation then the others listed above, and could therefore lead him to a better first year winning percentage then the rest of the almost magnificent 7.
It has been debated here plenty, and I am just giving my opinion but last years results had so many factors that do not truly represent the potential we will have next year, as long as we have some off season to learn the system and blend as a team. Injuries, Lame duck coach, horrible QB play, etc,etc.
We will have one of the best LB cores in the NFL if Davis is back to speed, a stouter run defense with the addition of our 2 new DT , a healthy offensive line , and a dynamic , and unpredictable offense lead by a physical specimen as a QB , and oh yeah some fantastic running backs, (oh, yeah a true threat at tight end also). If we can secure one more good vet corner, and a vet deep threat receiver in FA , this team could surprise people, and therefore a nice winning percentage for Cam. With quality FA acquisitions, and an off season I would not be surprised to be over 500 this year.
I like collard greens.
I agree Bruce..
I can remember seeing film of how bad that Tampa Bay team was with Steve Young, they were terrible for a long time! All those media leeches and most former coaches and players knew we were not as bad as our record indicated last year, but as you all know, at least a few teams each year are made out to be the laughing stock of the league and last year we just happend to be one of them regardless of the good talent we have on the team and the all the injuiries to our star players! We will sneak up on teams this year and beat them! We’ll punch them in the mouth early and Rivera will get coach of the year!
I think that Newton is less likely to run in a pro system than people may realize
I mean most of his runs in college where by design. And the number of “scrambles” are very very low. On film he just doesn’t like panic’d as a pocket passer..he climbs the pocket and slides away from the rush without looking at it …this is the MAIN reason i think he is way more advanced than people give him credit for….James i don’t have the numbers but i am betting he had a significant LESS amount of scrambles than Gabbert and Locker. I just don’t have film of very game of those players to go back and count so i can’t say for sure…. Please try not to get annoyed by me making this point over and over lol. All i am saying is i don’t think most people have identified with who Newton is as a quarterback…..take away designed run plays and you may only get 3 or 4 scrambles out of him in a game….just when he does they are highlight reel type plays. Again i can’t compare the other players but 43 scrambles during designed pass plays during a 14 game season averages out to 3.07 scrambles a game…add to the fact that he had a low volume of passes and you could up that to 4 if he is passing 30 times a game instead 20 to 25…but still don’t identify him with being a “running qb”. It is more accurate in my humble opinion considering him a “developing qb that can run”….so for those that think he is gonna be runnign all around…that maybe true for a few games until he settles in. But just from what i see on film he it appears to be very instinctive in the pocket…and will likely have fans wondering why he doesn’t run more…..at least that is what i see when i look at each and every play from this past season.
IMO
he is most like Daunte CUlpepper. I think Culpepper ran something like a 4.6 40 at the combine, was 6’5 250, and had a cannon for an arm. Cam looks faster, but not as refined as a passer.
by usana_gaines on May 13, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing that's had me worried about the pick...
…lets look at how many of these QBs were successful “franchise QBs” with the team that drafted them. Vick, Steve Young, and Vince Young I would have to say no…I’m not sure on the others. Vick is now constantly used as a success story for running QBs, but he was not successful for the team that drafted him so it isn’t an analogue to our situation.
Will Cam be able to put it together during his tenure as a Panther? I sure hope so.
Tarkenton was up and down to begin with (He was a viking, then a giant, then a viking again)...
but he didn’t really start winning until his second stint with the vikings; Cunningham had an abysmal rookie year (1 TD: 8 int), and didn’t really hit his stride till roughly his 3rd-4th year in the NFL (although even at that, his highlight year came with his 2nd team, the 1998 Vikings); I still don’t get where the love for Vince Young comes from (“Oh, but look at his record!” yea, because he’s been so vital to the Titans success, what with his sub 60% accuracy and 1:1 TD to INT ratio), and like you said in regards to Steve Young and Vick, they didn’t see good success as “franchise QB’s” (Vick being debatable, but outside of one year he was largely underwhelming in ATL) until they went to different teams. Out of the 7 listed, I think Steve Mcnair is the only one who really became a “franchise QB” with his original team (Cunningham was good with the Eagles, but outside of a 3 year stretch in the middle of his career he was never terribly “overpowering” as their QB)….So what do we learn here? Either “Patience is a virtue”, or Tom Jackson’s favorite “Aim low, shoot high”
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
I think it’s dangerous trying to make a correlation between running QBs not equating to ‘franchise QBs’.
I say this because even at 1 in 7 (if you only consider McNair a ‘franchise QB’ for his original team) I’d still argue that is ultimately the same success rate as pure pocket QBs… about 1 in 7.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that the purpose of this exercise wasn’t really to prove Newton will be a franchise QB, but rather than QBs with similar abilities can succeed in the 1st years without having all the tools as passers.
by James Dator on May 13, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I feel like most of these guys prove though that expecting 1st year success out of them is a dangerous expectation...
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
In football expecting anything is a dangerous expectation...
Trying to predict any player’s success is a futile effort in a lot of ways, I just feel these constant arguments from the national media of “Carolina wont be able to win immediately because Cam makes plays with his legs, not his arm” can be cited in previous successful examples.
I don’t know what will happen to the Panthers in 2011, but I do know that QBs have shown in the past you can exceed expectations with an athletic QB under center.
Of course they can! And I hope to baby jesus he (or Clausen) does in fact succeed...
but, as has been seen countless times before, we should probably exercise a good bit of patience with his learning process, because he still remains a) a Rookie and b) one with limited starting experience in a “conventional” offense (I know that’s not always an issue/positive, but it exists nonetheless)
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
And you know what?
I think they’ve got it bassakward. Look at a very recent example: Vince Young. He was behind Cam as a passer when he was a rookie, yet he came in a won what, 8 games? Yes, 8-5 as you point out.
It takes ANY rookie QB time to develop as a passer. Cam has an advantage. And that is: he is a superior athlete.
The national media has as much common sense as, well something that doesn’t have much common sense. Yes, try that one of for size (the horribly delivered joke was an ode to Stewie Griffin).
Nihilists! F@ck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
understood, and that makes sense.
If sitting him for a year will mitigate the risk of us being Newton’s springboard franchise, though, I’d rather see that scenario unfold. My worry is starting athletic QBs too soon stunts their development as a pocket passer.
*On 2nd thought, I'll include Cunningham with Mcnair...
I was a bit unfair to Cunningham in the above post, but fact remains it did take a little while for him to come into his own with the Eagles, which is something that is a luxury these days with the presence of FA
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Out of the 7...
- Vick: Only left the Falcons because of off field issues
- Young: Only left the Titans because of off field issues
- Steve Young: Released after two mediocre seasons
- Randall Cunningham: Stayed with the Eagles for his entire career
- Steve McNair: Stayed with the Titans for his entire career
- Fran Tarkington: Left Minnesota after numerous seasons only to return
- Tim Tebow: Too early to tell
In terms of on field ability the only one to leave his team due to lack of performance was Steve Young.
Cunningham played for the Vikings in 1998. He was the QB during their 15-1 season when they lost to the Falcons in the NFC Championship Game, when Morton Andersen missed the ONLY field goal of the season that sent the game to OT.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
And Steve McNair also played for the Ravens.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
BTW, I’m not trying to be “that guy”, lol.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
Nihilists! F@ck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
(apologies to those who hide peoples comments for not including a title)
But you should know better than to try and hide Dwight K Shcrute.
Nihilists! F@ck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
lol
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
haha well played
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
I think he is weighing his NFL fandom options.
He didn’t take the Cam pickup very well.
Nihilists! F@ck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
He might still be working through his stockpile of alcoholic beverages
that he built up before they drafted Newton.
by BusyBeingAwesome on May 13, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Somehow I think there is some unintentional selection bias in here.
Shouldn’t the list include, I dunno, all QB’s who ran a lot in college? By only counting starts and 50 yd production, you discount those who never started (AE) and those who ran for their lives but never got much.
If the success rate was this high, I would think every team in the NFL would be trying it. Drafting QB’s is kind of a crap shoot.
If you are saying success is LIKELY, I’m not certain you have proved it. If you are saying it is POSSIBLE (and thus failure is not inevitable), I can support that.
by panthersnbraves on May 13, 2011 2:09 PM EDT reply actions
I’m open to suggestions, I can run the numbers for whoever you think of. Armanti Edwards is a poor example because he’s never started a game at QB in the NFL, so there’s no way of knowing how he would have done.
Also, I wouldn’t classify ‘running for their lives’ as being the same as a rushing QB… I mean, David Carr carried the ball 59 times his rookie year because he was sacked so much, but that didn’t make him a ‘rushing QB’.
Sorry - I went to NCSU, so I don't follow college sports to any depth.
I am trying to think of what would be a good criteria, but I would think it would have to be on the college side, rather than the Pro’s. Edwards was drafted as a WR, so he wouldn’t count, but trying to figure out who might. Would limiting it to First Round picks make sense?
by panthersnbraves on May 13, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
The idea was to look at guys who used their legs as a weapon, not just scramblers. I didn’t want to limit it to 1st round guys, because the argument could then be made that you’re just looking at top QBs then. I wanted to find a metric that measured players who ran the ball well, and started their 1st season.
I’ve been wracking my brains simply because these guys dont get to start their rookie seasons
It gets complicated
A guy like Tyrod Taylor or Pat White isn’t going to start because of the glaring issues with their passing, but they get drafted because they can make plays with their legs.
The guys who are given the opportunity to start are those who convince their respective teams that they can do both well enough to lead a team. Those cases are rare, but I think Cam will stack up favorably to those occurrences.
All of these guys except Vince Young & Tarkenton sat their 1st year
Cunningham sat behind Jaworski for almost 2 years and was a disaster his first year with 1 TD & 8 Int’s. Vick sat behind Chris Chandler his 1st year and McNair sat behind Chandler, also. Tebow sat behind Orton and we all know about Steve Young. Vince Young had a QB rating of 66 his rookie year and actually Tarkenton was 3-11 in 1961 with the 1st year franchise Vikings. Newton needs to sit and learn from more of a conventional pocket paser and get the automatic run out of him. Being a mobile QB is great but if he doesn’t learn how to slide, run out of bounds and yes, throw the ball away he’s going to get killed in the NFL.
by 7QBdraw on May 13, 2011 6:22 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I'm sure there all great guys, but
just how many of them can wake up in the morning and polish their superbowl rings. In my opinion you can’t count Steve Young cause he did it with pretty much the same roster as the NFC probowl roster. Plus there was alot of Bill Walsh’s Franchise still fueling that fire. My point is with the exceptions of Elway & Young if you include him, rushing QB’s rarely if ever get the most important stat or the hardware to go with it. Newton is one helluva athlete and there will be some exciting times in his career. I have no doubt if he gets the starting job that he’ll win us alot of games. But I don’t believe he’ll ever get the big one. My guess is 4yrs from now he’ll be on his way out. It’s been proven time and again once a rushing QB meets an elite defense in the post season the excitement is over. My advice to Cam stay in the pocket as much as possible and learn to read defenses. Learn to control that cannon on your shoulder. And stay modest cause defenses will adapt to your athletic ability. I hope you all get to wype your asses with my words in a few years but I just don’t see it.
"For a man dat don't go heels you run yur mouth pretty reckless don't ya."
"No need to go heels to get the bulge on a wretch like you."
If he wins a lot of games he'll be around for far more than 4 years
regardless of whether he has a Super Bowl ring or not.
by BusyBeingAwesome on May 16, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
elite defense?
You say that once a running QB meets an elite defense, the excitement is over. I think the difference with Cam is the history making RB tandem he has, and we are on the verge of having that elite defense. Remember Jake’s QB rating was never over 88, and it was 82 the year we went 12-4, in 2008. If Cam can keep his QB rating in the 80s or low 90s, our D and RBs should be able to close the gap to win it all. We all can’t have the top rated QB of all time. Cam will probably never have a 110+ QB rating for a season like Young, Manning and Brady, but how many more Superbowls would those guys have won if they had Beason, D-Will and Stewart?
How did our history making RB tandem help us last year?
by SlayerGhaleon on May 14, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
The running game as a whole was not clicking last season.
Certainly not early on in the season.
Nihilists! F@ck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
Thanks Slayer,
thats exactly what I meant. I love double trouble and personally think d-lo is the best RB in the league when he’s healthy. But when you make yourself one dimensional like we’ve been since the playoff loss to Arz. you can’t win in this league. This isn’t the NCAA & you can’t run the QB option and expect anything more than an occasional 10yd run. Ask Dallas how that worked out for them a few years ago when Romo & the gang tried it. It’s now an airborne league & I don’t think Cam has enough frequent flyer miles to keep up. You can have the strongest arm in the world but if you can’t see more than one read per play and have the accuracy to fit one through a tight zone or a double team you’re not gonna make it in this league. And Cam simply can’t. That may be our new slogan for this year if the coaches try & fit him into the offense early. I hope I’m completely wrong but the way this is panning out Rivera could be the shortest tenured coach in Panther history. And we may be able to see Luck in Charlotte anyway. Or at least be able to trade the #1 pick next year for San Francisco’s entire draft. Harbaugh wants Luck in his offense anyway & that’s the real reason Luck stayed in school. So Harbaugh could have a shot at drafting him. JR made a mistake with the interview by showing our hand to early. And then by not even inviting Harbaugh in for the coaching vacancy ensured Luck would stay to finish his degree. But until I’m proven right or wrong, Go …. Cam¡
"For a man dat don't go heels you run yur mouth pretty reckless don't ya."
"No need to go heels to get the bulge on a wretch like you."
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