The gravity of the Panthers decision, should they choose Green
by James Dator on Apr 27, 2011 11:00 AM EDT
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PrintIt seems too bizarrely fortuitous that the morning I decided to write about what A.J. Green would bring to the Panthers it would be roughly 12 hrs since the news broke that Steve Smith wanted out of Carolina. One point I had planned to make was about planning for the future, and Green being a chance to be a proactive, rather than reactive selection- but c'est la vie... it looks like he would be another attempt to bandaid a bullet hole.
As it stands I think there's an outside chance he's the pick, but a chance nonetheless- so lets look at what he brings to the organization.
1. Green has the rare talent to make his QB better
We all know the common thinking when it comes to a WR- they can't do anything without a good QB. However, when it comes to A.J. Green he's really one of the exceptions to this rule. He brings a rare combination of size, speed, athleticism and astounding hands to the table that truly makes the life of his QB easier. Need more proof? Look no further than to his QB Aaron Murray:
- Average game without A.J. Green (2010): 61.45% completion, 219.75 yards, 1.25 TD
- Average game with A.J. Green (2010): 64.53% completion, 246.5 yards, 2.37 TD
When you have a WR who can lift he QBs performance like that he becomes worthy of a top selection, especially when he's the surest thing on the offensive side of the ball.
In short, it gives the Panthers the best last chance to give Jimmy Clausen one last chance before deciding he was a waste of a 2nd round pick. If he can't succeed with A.J. Green at WR, then it's unlikely he'll be able to in any other situation. In this way Green fills myriad roles of helping you evaluate current talent, and set yourself up for the future.
More after the jump
2. He is a bonafide #1 receiver
Until last night this would seem to be a topic for the back-burner, or an afterthought... but now it has to become a stark realization that without Steve Smith the Carolina Panthers have far and away the worst receiving corps in the NFL. Both Brandon LaFell and David Gettis did very well as #2 receivers their first year, but one of the reasons this team got to 2-14 in the first place was putting too much stock in single season's worth of good numbers.
Though both were tremendous value where they were picked in the draft, and despite Gettis showing flashes of #1 WR ability, ultimately neither look like true #1 receivers, not yet.
3. Immediate impact
There's only one player at the top of the draft on the offensive side of the ball who can immediately step in and improve his team, and that's A.J. Green. Either of the quarterbacks would need at least one year of seasoning and instruction to be ready, but scouts believe Green's route running and feel for the game is already so advanced that he can step in immediately and contribute. Here's some food for thought:
- Andre Johnson: 976 yards, 4 TD his rookie season (David Carr as QB)
- Calvin Johnson: 756 yards, 4 TD his rookie season (John Kitna as QB)
- Larry Fitzgerald: 780 yards, 8 TD his rookie season (Josh McCown as QB)
Compare to
- Steve Smith: 556 yards, 2 TD (Jimmy Clausen as QB)
Despite Fitzgerald, Johnson and Johnson not having elite QBs, they still put forward better performances their rookie seasons than any Carolina Panthers WR did last year. If Green is truly in that same class, then he's worth the pick.
4. We have a precedent of getting the WR first making the most sense
I again need to lean on the above examples of Detroit, Houston and Arizona. Sure, Houston hadn't worked out David Carr was a complete bust yet in 2003, but how much easier did it make Matt Schaub's transition into the role of starting QB to have a #1 target out of the gate?
The Cardinals were relying on Josh McCown and passed on Philip Rivers when they took Larry Fitzgerald, but pairing Fitzgerald with Kurt Warner proved to be the dynamic needed to make them NFC champions.
Detroit were still looking for their way when they took Calvin Johnson, passing on Brady Quinn... but as it stands if Matt Stafford can remain healthy the nucleus is there.
Though some see it as putting the cart before the horse, the reality is that having an established and seasoned WR makes life easier for a QB when they hit the field. Even if the Panthers waited and took a Ryan Mallett/Ricky Stanzi later in the draft, having them on the bench while Green worked a full season would ultimately aid their transition.
5. This is a passing league
This is the phrase we keep hearing over, and over, and over again... and it's true. However, there's more that just getting a QB needed to fill in this equation, you also need a reliable WR. If you're going to look at this draft from offensive BPA (with BPA meaning the ideal for his position) then Green is the best guy you can take.
Tomorrow I'll return to the defensive side of the ball and conclude this series with LSU CB Patrick Peterson.
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With the news breaking of Smitty wanting to leave...
I think it’s imperative that we draft a receiver to replace him. I’m wanting more and more for the Panthers to trade back, get Green and make a play for Ryan Mallett. I think this would definitely put our offense on the path out of obscurity…
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 11:08 AM EDT reply actions
Great minds think alike huh?
Two guys calling for Green/Mallett at about the same time!
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Apr 27, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Could we be pyschic.....
I’m Professor Charles Xavier!!!
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRFk0R_QpfMKoZeLImyFHaTx_3oAuNalLL1m5Yi8LvK_2JGI9mX&t=1
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Pic Fail...
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I still think the best outcome of this draft would be Green and Mallett.
But anyways, great write-up James. All of these have been great and have worked to alleviate the concerns of picking #1 overall. No matter who we draft, we should be getting a hell of a player.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
Foxy???
Haha! Just messing Jake!
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully
Tomorrow will be a good day to have a good day.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Apr 27, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Well...
It IS day to day so we’ll see…
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm just glad Green won't be back in 2011...
slicing up my GT Secondary like he has the past three seasons. To quote me last December: “Can anybody cover this guy!” Please!!!".
Green catches absolutely everything thrown his way.
A trade down and pick of Green is the best scenario.
But I don’t think that we’re going to get Mallett if we do. I’m pretty confident that Washington takes him @ #10, unless they move up to take Gabbert earlier.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
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Depending on how desperate some of the other teams are for QBs...
We could possibly work a double trade to get down enough to nab Green and propel someone like Washington to get Gabbert or Newton. I doubt they pass on either QB if given the chance to acquire them.
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
The Redskins rumor is really intriguing.
Don’t know if it’s been mentioned on CSR or not, but the Redskins interest in Gabs at #2 may create a bidding war for his services. For instance, if the Cardinals or Bengals thought they could wait until their pick to select Gabbert, they may no longer will feel comfortable with that. They could negotiate with Denver, and beat Washington’s offer. Or one or both could leapfrog Denver and negotiate directly with the Panthers. It’s that scenario which improves the possibility of trading down… and the better shot of Green becoming a Panther.
Honestly, I think it's the only shot.
i don’t think they will take Green @ #1. I can’t say why, it’s just a gut feeling.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
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It doesn't even have to be a gut feeling
I don’t believe they’ll spend the #1 pick on a WR (even if it is a dire need with Smitty likely departing) when there are guys who are higher on the board who fill positions of need as well (Dareus, mostly).
by ozymandius1024 on Apr 27, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Also...
I think that there may be quite a few quality FA WRs – I have a feeling that some teams won’t be able to afford to keep all of their WRs.
This.....
+1
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
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Like Sidney Rice or Braylon Edwards.
CAN'T WAIT!
The question is not how far. The question is, do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far is as needed? - El Duche
or Malcom Floyd
CAN'T WAIT!
The question is not how far. The question is, do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far is as needed? - El Duche
"Biggest Impact"
I’ve given a lot of thought as to how you can get your head around what exactly having the “biggest impact” on the franchise means, which is what Hurney has been saying. Basically, what I feel like it comes down to is taking the player that has the greatest improvement over your current line up. (Funny, that works into an equation: Rookie Value/Current Value throw in some exponential growth/decay and there you go).
That addresses both need and value simultaneously. For example, we aren’t going to draft Von Miller. We simply have no need for him because he isn’t much of an upgrade over our current starters. Therefore, his impact on the organization would be relatively small, even if he would be a valuable player. This implies that part of the draft process is as much about self-scouting than anything else. You really have to know your own players and part of the problem from last year could have been that we didn’t do that part of the process well enough.
I’m mostly talking about in general terms, not specifics. I don’t really know how to evaluate our WRs from last year. All in all they weren’t helped by our QB issues, but at the same time we say that they “performed well” because we had very low expectations for them. Because of this, I can’t really say whether or not we should draft Green. I simply don’t know what to expect from LaFell or Gettis. I hope they will do well, but I don’t know that they will.
If we do draft Green, it certainly says something about their confidence in their WRs. If we don’t draft Green, it doesn’t say anything about it, only that they believe they will field a better team by drafting someone else. I guess I’m on the fence on this one. I don’t know…
I don't think its a knock on who we have.
AJ Green is one of the best WR prospects in years. Do we see a good chance that either LaFell or Gettis becomes a #1 WR? And if we do, then we’ve got to see Green’s chances are even better.
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by Jake Humphrey on Apr 27, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Green could also help in Lafell's and Gettis' development as well.
How awesome would it be for them to have someone like Green across from them? Green may end up usurping them for the #1 spot after his second or third year, but I think we’d have one of stronger receiving corps by then.
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I can't really agree with that
If they believed that LaFell and Gettis were going to be solid, they wouldn’t be able to justify drafting Green because although he may have a higher grade than either of the two, the biggest impact on the team wouldn’t come from drafting him, but drafting someone else. The only way Green’s impact is great enough to be draftable is if:
1) LaFell and Gettis aren’t solid
2) Green’s value is truly astronomical (perennial Pro-Bowler scale)
3) No one else in the draft would have as great an impact.
The #3 condition only applies if he’s on the board late. This is what happened with Dan Connor.
Well
If he’s the Calvin Johnson/Larry Fitzgerald level prospect that everyone makes him out to be, then #2 would be the case.
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by Jake Humphrey on Apr 27, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Not necessarily
- implies that LaFell and Gettis are good, but for Green to be taken, he would have to be a “take over the game” type player. Basically, Steve Smith circa 2005. I certainly don’t think we can say that about him, not without seeing how he plays in the NFL.
In my mind
2 definitely applies and 3 might follow from 2.
I think LaFell and Gettis can be solid #2 receivers but I am not sure either can be as good as Green
I guess I should have explained that a bit more thoroughly
What I meant in the 2nd option is that Green would have to be so great that despite how good LaFell and Gettis are, Green’s value completely eclipses the value of other positions of greater need. Let’s say our WRs grade out to an 80 and our QBs grade out to a 50 (random numbers). The QB on the board grades out to a 90. In order for Green to be a better selection, he would have to grade out to about 150 to be selected, otherwise the gains from the other position still outweigh the gains by drafting him. (And that assumes Green replaces the combination of Gettis and LaFell when in reality he only makes the WR corps better, but it’s somewhere between his grade and the others.)
Obviously, that’s extremely simplified, but it does illustrate just how drastically superior Green would have to be
I get it
My guess the QBs in the draft are graded around the same as the QBs that we have. I think Green is probably about a 95 to the receivers who are 75.
But that’s my grading. Panthers might have it differently. And of course, I grade Dareus a lot higher than DTs on our roster but maybe we want upgrade offense first.
James...
I’m echoing what others have said, but all of these recent write-ups have given us good reasons to be optimistic no matter which pick the Panthers make. Green’s my last preference of the top prospects, but you’ve certainly given me something to think about. I’m really leaning toward Gabbert or Dareus if there’s no trading back…but there are things to look forward to no matter who the pick is.
It’s not a “sexy” pick, but I really do hope we go with Dareus. The guy is ridiculouly versatile and will be able to dramatically improve the D-line from Day 1 AND should make a significant impact for years to come at a position we’ve been quite weak at recently. A better D-line will automatically help the secondary. We’ll be better able to stuff the run AND better able to collapse the pocket – you’ll help keep RBs from making it to the secondary, and you’ll disrupt the passing game up front. If you have a line comprised of CJ, Dareus, and Hardy, how in the heck are opposing lines going to be able to double-team all of those guys?
Sorry, I got a little derailed there. But without Smitty, I do have to say that Green would certainly give us a weapon that we’ll need if he’s out the door. While I have belief in Gettis and LaFell, they can’t carry the weight on their own.
It’s nearly impossible to have worse coaching that the team had last year, so I feel like whatever pick we made, our new coaching staff WANTS to teach young players and the players can’t help but improve. I don’t know how much better our W-L column will be (being in the NFC South and having the hardest schedule kind of screws us over in the current state of the roster), but I think we’ll have a better team than our record will indicate (much like te Detroit Lions of last year – even if we don’t get as many wins).
Not saying Dareus wouldn't be a great pick
But we really need to go with offense. I know defense wins footbals games and all that stuff but we had a good defense last year with a few small problems. The biggest problem I saw with our D last year is that they spent to much time on the field and got tired. With an upgraded offense that can stay on the field, eat up some clock, and score some points, our D would have looked a lot better. I don’t remember watching a single game last lear and thinking “Man the D sure screwed us on that one.” Besides that, look at the average field positions they were given in the games. I don’t have the exact stats to back it up but more often than not the opposing O started in Carolina territory. I don’t see how you can call a stallion a loser when the other horse always gets a head start.
IT AIN'T SIZE OF THE DOG IN THE FIGHT BUT THE SIZE OF THE FIGHT IN THE DOG
by BlackCatFan on Apr 27, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I totally agree that the D was not the reason that we lost games.
And I originally had a very strong opinion that the team undoubtedly should go offense with the first pick – specifically QB.
I’m still waffling – no surprise there.
It’s just that my opinion, as of this hour (it’s subject to change before 5:00 this afternoon), is that you really need to hit it out of the park on your #1 overall pick. Dareus is the most sure-fire prospect at the position of greatest need behind QB, he can make a huge impact immediately, and it will last for years to come. He’s legitimately in the argument to be the BPA of this draft. QB is our greatest need, but all of the QBs have serious issues although they all have their strong points. On one hand, I think that it’s time to “dare to be great” and go for a franchise QB in Gabbert or Cam (or possibly Mallett or Ponder in a trade down – which I don’t think we’ll be able to make); on the other hand, we (particularly Rivera) might get screwed over if our “dare to be great” blows up in our faces. But then, I go back to the Dolphins passing over Matt Ryan for something more sure-fire.
And as to Green, he’s an offensive player who could make an impact Day 1 who is less of a reach than the QBs. Good WRs can make a QB’s life easier. So that’s certainly something to keep in mind.
I’m almost losing sleep over the pick, and I’m not even responsible for it. LOL.
I wouldn't dog the Dolphins for drafting one of the best LTs in football
Instead of drafting Matt Ryan. I’d say they did just fine, and they probably don’t regret it at all.
by ozymandius1024 on Apr 27, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure they're very happy with Long in and of himself.
But I personally would be kicking myself for not picking up Matt Ryan. That’s just me, though. =)
Not addressed to ozymandius – just a comment…
I should say – referring to what I said above – I have no clue what I’d do with the QB situation if Dareus were the pick; I might have to invest in a straightjacket if we have to rely on Clausen for another year. There’s just no easy answer this season. =(
We could always find a way to make a trade to get a second rounder
and draft Kaepernick in the second :-)
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
One of two things (and I'd be fine with both)
1. Let Clausen start and see if he has anything with a new staff: If he owns, you have your QB of the future and Hurney is validated. If he doesn’t and completely stinks, you enter the Andrew Luck sweepstakes next season. That’s a win win.
2. Bring in a veteran: Whether through a trade (Detroit got Shaun Hill for a 7th round pick last season), or through free agency. None of the guys available are going to be world beaters, but they’d just need to be a bridge until Carolina finds their guy anyway.
by ozymandius1024 on Apr 27, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sorry Ozy
But I don’t want to purposely throw this season just to have a chance at nabbing Luck next year. The point is to rebuild and I believe with this new staff we can build around a QB in this draft. Giving up is not acceptable and I’d be ashamed if they threw the season for such a stupid reason…
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I really don't see it as throwing the season
Clausen might be terrible (he definitely had a terrible season last year, I’ll concede to that), but there’s no disputing that he was in a really bad situation last season.
Giving him a 2nd year to see if he’s worth anything at all, grabbing the best player in draft (Dareus or Peterson), and not reaching for a QB that’s going to have to sit a year anyway seems ok with me.
Seriously, Newton or Gabbert are going to have to sit this season almost regardless, so Carolina is probably going to start Clausen (or some retread) anyway. It really isn’t throwing the season.
by ozymandius1024 on Apr 27, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's what I'd do, but I believe in JC7 (see, it doesn't work all you PP7 fans!).
If we can’t trade the pick, take Dareus, pick up a veteran QB from FA and roll with Clausen.
That said I can’t see the fan base standing for that.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
That very well could be what they do Oldham...
I personally want them to pick Dareus, FWIW.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
Well it depends on whether Richardson/Hurney cares about the fan base.
In my opinion Clausen got hate for all the wrong reasons last year – he was made the scapegoat. I don’t think he played well, but he wasn’t the reason we’re drafting #1 overall (but that’s another discussion!)
The point being, the Newton hype train has been building up steam for three months and we’re a team that many think lack a QB. Plus there’s all the Gabbert talk (seriously? He doesn’t impress me in the slightest). I just have a horrible feeling that we’re drafting Newton/Gabbert – whichever one Rivera feels most comfortable with.
As people have said – a new HC wants his own QB. Which is a shame.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I agree, Oldham...
…I think Clausen received more blame than he was due…and a lot of Panther fans have a tendency to jump on the blame bandwagon a little too quickly. Hell, it’s easy to do when you’re discouraged with your team.
Reaching for a QB…if we miss on that gamble, it’s another 1st round wasted. But if we pick any of the “sure fire” prospects at other positions of need, we’re more soundly and safely building our team for the future. That means Dareus or Green should probably take precedence, based on our needs. It seems like folly to reach for a QB when we have a slam dunk with others.
I’d much rather safely and slowly build than turn into the East Coast Raiders, over-drafting any athletic freak that comes our way.
(BTW, I think Gabbert looks pretty good (although only a mid-1st round grade, IMO): good footwork, leadership abilities, intelligence, and one helluva quick release…but hey, it’s just my view)
About Gabbert
he does seem smart and his release is really good especially on the shorter throws.
My worry is what happens when he has to sit in the pocket because he looks very awkward in the pocket and he cannot deal with the rush at the college level.
For me he is a project – he needs to play in WCO where he can use his smarts and quick release and short accuracy. In time, he may be able to handle other schemes too.
I don’t know the guy but from watching him, it seems (to me) that he has some problems with attitude. Maybe he has chip on his shoulder which might be a good thing. But I’m not sure that he as all the positive intangibles that people think he does.
I can't agree with this enough
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by Thee Steve Johnson on Apr 27, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's get realistic
Here’s the problem with your arguement. I, as the ABC Fan Club President, have not blamed Clausen for the 2-14 season. But what I, and anyone who watched the games objectively saw, was a QB who lacks talent, leadership and respect. Will he progress if he’s given another shot? Of course he will. It’s not hard to improve when you’re the 68th ranked QB from the 2010 season. (see footballoutsiders.com for the breakdown). But will he be a QB that can lead a football team consistently, or even occassionally to a playoff berth? NO. Do you think the Panthers can be delusional enough to think that the QB with the 2nd worst start for QB’s taken in the first two rounds of a draft EVER, Ryan Leaf, friggin Ryan Leaf being the one QB who started off worse, will become a franchise QB?. History and eyeballs say it ain’t gonna happen.
Next, to be the “East Coast Raiders”, Hurney would have to reach… Hmmm, you may have something there. We traded a 1st for Everette Brown, and a 2nd for Armanti Edwards, so I’ll say Hurney is on his way to that distinction, but it would take 3-4 more years, even if they “reach” for a QB to come even close to that organization. And there is precedence to say, NOBODY is a slam dunk. I personally would prefer the Panthers to take 1. AJ Green or 1a. Marcel Dareus, but it’s not a “reach” to take a QB in this draft, because there are 7-8 QB prospects who showed more in college; college, than Clausen did as a pro. So its not a reach when you upgrade the most important position on the field. Even if Newton/Gabbert/Mallet/Locker/Ponder/Stanzi/Kaepernick/Dalton bust, you’d have to imagine they’d be an upgrade over the total lack of hope Clausen showed last year.
Thank God!!!!!!!!!!!!, the draft is tomorrow and there will be something else to talk about. No wait, there wont be, except the players they got thru trading picks or those they picked in rounds 3-7.
Rant over.
Official ABC Fan Club President
Anybody But Clausen
by Jelly Wedge on Apr 27, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great Rant
I disagree.
To which point exactly?
Official ABC Fan Club President
Anybody But Clausen
by Jelly Wedge on Apr 27, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
ooh
I found something I agree with.
I personally would prefer the Panthers to take 1. AJ Green or 1a. Marcel Dareus
I disagree with everything else. But as I said great rant.
Luck is a serious reach anyway.
Too many assumptions, gambles and risks are there, just on Luck’s side of the coin alone, to even think of blowing off QB entirely in the vain hope that we somehow pull a back-to-back #1 pick. Never mind the assumptions and gambles involved in our side with 31 other teams who would want him just as badly.
So, grab Stanzi in the 3rd, and let HIM sit behind Bulger.
I often wish I could sell my brain to someone else. They'd be smarter, but I wouldn't give a crap, plus I could buy a new car.
3rd on the Depth Chart
would be the implication, I think.
Disclaimer: BusyBeingAwesome = Irony. And, on a side note. I miss you, Steve Beuerlein.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Apr 27, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd put Stanzi third tbh.
I trust Clausen a lot more than I do a later round rookie.
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Apr 27, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be my preference, as well.
Disclaimer: BusyBeingAwesome = Irony. And, on a side note. I miss you, Steve Beuerlein.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Apr 27, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I know JC had a horrible rookie season, but
If you go back and read his scouting reports, he would have been picked over all the 2nd tier QBs you are all rooting for. IIRC, the ONLY think JC had against him was his attitude of entitlement.
Let’s keep it real, the Panthers drafting a QB in the 3rd round, will NOT improve the QB situation, and to imply that he should be the #2 QB is absurd.
If we draft a QB #1 overall, so be it. If not, I don’t think we can afford another project QB on the roster.
Ron Rivera, the Most Interesting Coach in the World. Stay thirsty my friends!
by Tarheel Soldier on Apr 27, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd honestly pick him over all of the QBs in this draft too.
They all have huge question marks. I don’t see anyone worth the #1 pick.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I don't think it would be the hope
It just may be the result. If Clausen is as bad as everyone says. If Clausen improves then we are out of the Luck race. It’s really a win win.
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by Thee Steve Johnson on Apr 27, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with BlackCatFan
As much as Dareus sounds great and even PP7, our defense suffered last year due to too much time on the field and lack of points scored, if you scored 17 against us you pretty much won the game.
Until our offense can eat up some clock and put some points on the board we will continue to lose even if our defense plays lights out.
I just did an average for last year and we averaged 11 points per game, I couldn’t find time of possession anywhere (I didn’t search that hard) but I bet that isn’t good either.
I'm really really starting to think that Dareus is the right pick
He can do sooo much at the line. He gives RR and McD a lot of options. He helps stop the run and rush the passer. It would almost be stupid to pass up on him. Unless it’s for PP7. We are a couple of pieces away from one of the top D units in the NFL IMO. We could be set on D with this draft alone. All we need is a CB, NT, and a UT.
We could keep Neblett, Irvin, Landri, and or Johnson (depending on how they do in TC). Dareus can move around which is awesome. If we can get a Ellis, Powe, or Jenkins in this draft (I really hope we can get two of those three), we can grab some sleeper CB that Meeks likes and we are scary.
The offense will be better this year.Our rookies aren’t rookies anymore. We should have Otah back. So our line will be just fine with Gross, Wharton, Kalil, Schwartz, Otah (sick). Fiammetta has another year under his belt along with Goodson. Jshocks should help.
A.J. Green would help us out, but I don’t see us taking him. Not with Dareus and PP7 on the board. If we traded back then yeah, but only if we traded back.
http://twitter.com/#!/TheeSteveJohns
https://www.facebook.com/TheeSteveJohnson
by Thee Steve Johnson on Apr 27, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I would be happy with Dareus or Peterson
I love that Carolina has been built on defense and remember the Peppers/Rucker/Buckner/Jenkins days well.
I too think our offense will be better than last year as well but if you had to rank our offense and defense on a scale from 1 to 10 I’d put the current offense at about a 2 – 3 and our defense at a 6 – 8 (official numbers mind you ;) lol.
I’m fine with whoever we pick and James has done a great job of highlighting the upsides of each of the prospects I was just reiterating the point that BlackCatFan made about our defense suffering due to the field position and time of possession.
What a great prospect
Highly unlikely that we get him but he is going to something special. Taking Green is not a knock on LaFell or Gettis in any way.
I like Green, a lot
I guess it is a combination of hump day, the prospect of losing Smitty, the lock out and the prospect of picking players I’m not so keen on…kind of has me down.
I think Green would be a good pick…
*goes off in search of his mojo *
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques
AJ Green & Ryan Mallett FTW!
I’d be ecstatic with that combination! But in reality, I’m not sure if it’s possible. It’s really hard to tell where Mallett will end up going…could be the first, second, or third round. It’s nice to think about though.
Mallett is going in the first.
He’s too good of a passer for one of the many QB needy teams to pass on.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
Follow me on Twitter
That's where I'm hoping that Hurney makes some draft day magin happen...
have a double trade to acquire both Green and Mallett!
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
So...you don't want a first round pick next year then.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I'm talking about trading down
Not trading future picks.
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Neggie Nelly
I think he meant getting Mallet at the top of the second
by Imisshooooooooov on Apr 27, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm just realistic.
Green is going in the top 15 at worst. Mallett is going in the first round.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
+1
There are too many teams desperate for QBs this year.
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
+1? P4L this was your idea!
Well you and JHump at the same time at least. Damnit now I gotta go back on the Cam train. Thank you Michael Weston
by Imisshooooooooov on Apr 27, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha! JHump...
Nah, I was +1ing your statement about Mallet going in the first round, lol
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Westen.
Michael Weston is this guy:
Though yes he has been on Burn Notice.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Looks like he's trying to get some kind of
Wolverine vibe going on… Though I’ll say the mutton chops need a little work!
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
First you knock me back on the Cam train
and now you tell me all these years I’ve been spelling Westen wrong. I’m going back to bed you sir have singlehandedly ruined my life.
by Imisshooooooooov on Apr 27, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahhhhhhh see
I’m only interested in being affirmed not informed. Erego, vis a vis, concordantly I am the perfect Cam Newton fan. Oh and we need to duel. It means both of these things.
by Imisshooooooooov on Apr 27, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Will Ferrel at the MTV Movie awards when he's spoofing the Matrix, right?
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I'm dropping off the Cam bus
And joining this one. Listening to Mallet’s cadence on QB Camp was quite impressive. Plus Mallet very well could drop to the top of the second if we don’t go QB number one. Don’t forget Dalton, Locker, and Ponder are all picking up steam.
by Imisshooooooooov on Apr 27, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Bring on Mallett!
Let’s just hope the Panthers can make it happen!
I'm still holding out for a trade down, but I don't see it.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Hey guys read this on NFL.com
The Redskins want to move up in the draft. Even as far up as #2 to acquire Gabbert as their QB. Maybe we could find some way to get Mallett after all.
Here’s the link: http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81f7f7de/article/redskins-look-to-move-up-in-draft-take-missouri-qb-gabbert?module=HP_headlines
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 12:12 PM EDT reply actions
We talked about this on CSR Radio last night...
The unfortunate part is that Washington doesn’t really have the picks necessary to make that kind of leap in the draft. The only way they’d be able to move up to #2 is if there is an allowance to trade players and they include players in the deal.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
Oh ok
I knew I should have tuned in last night. But even so, with them wanting Gabbert it’ll take a little pressure off us in trying to get Mallett.
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, they're pretty light on picks this year
But can’t you trade 2012 draft picks as well?
by ozymandius1024 on Apr 27, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe it's just denial.
But I don’t think Smith is gone just yet. I’ll believe it when I see it.
As for Green, he was my first choice for the pick waaay back when we were all on the Nick Fairley bandwagon. I’d be very very happy with him as the pick, although I’ve slightly come around more to Blaine Gabbert and even Marcel Dareus. They wouldn’t do quite as much for our offense as Green though.
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Apr 27, 2011 12:18 PM EDT reply actions
I'm not too bothered about Smith leaving.
He’s lost at least two steps – which is huge for someone that relies on their speed.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
His fire and competitiveness will still be missed.
Plus his guile in the slot would have been a valuable asset. I’m not convinced he still can’t be a playmaker, just look at his stats from the first two games when we could complete a downfield pass.
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Apr 27, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
yea
I definitley dont buy that Green will be the 1st pick. The way Hurney was quick to say yesterday he feels that Edwards can be a great WR and the fact that Edwards practically didnt get ANY playing time last year whatsoever because of Fox, and since they already bent over backwards to get Armanti i highly doubt they give up on him.
Yea the same argument can kind of be made about Clausen and us taking a QB but not really seeing as how Clausen DID play for most of the season while Edwards didnt play any at all (might have played once or twice i could be wrong here). With Hurney still praising Armanti, i highly doubt they take Green when they Armanti to work with.
I really hope Armanti Edwards turns into a great receiver, but...
he doesn’t have near the size that AJ Green does and needs a lot more work to become a legit receiver in the NFL. So I’m all for AJ Green, although it’s doubtful he’ll be the first pick.
The guys on the CO live chat right now...
Have talked about AE. They’re saying that he has that quick, slot receiver thing going for him like Smitty. Obviously not Smitty-level right now, but a lot of people related to the organization, and reporters outside of it, seem to think more highly of AE than Fox did.
Green and Edwards would play different spots.
Edwards in the slot, Green at either the X or Z (I believe that’s the correct term for the two outside spots). Taking Green is no indictment of any of our other wideouts.
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Apr 27, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
So Y = slot?
It’s been a while since I’ve talked Xs and Os
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Yup
The X is the split end, the Z is the flanker, and the Y is the slot.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Apr 27, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
So what are the terms when you go four and five wide?
Are they called the Y too?
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Apr 28, 2011 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Some systems call the wideouts X and Y and the slot Z, probably more go with X and Z on the outside with Y as the slot
The system I ran in high school was the Z slot designation, have a hard time getting away from thinking in those terms. I’m sure you’ve heard the term H-back, for the hybrid TE/WR guys, H is what is commonly used to designate the 4th receiver. A is typically used for 5th receivers.
Here’s a pic of Gabbert with a trips left, 4 WR package.
Here’s what it looked like with the routes drawn out. I would have called this play as…
“Trips left, X right, gun, 99 stutter 82 dig 38 flare”
Meaning Go route for outside – 9, Go route for next receiver – 9 (stutter for wiggle stop and go), post for next recevier – 8, and slant or dig route for other side outside receiver -2, going from left to right, and letting the tailback know his flare route – 8 after protection.
Every system is different in how they call sets and routes. We used the simplest form where you gave sets and numerically called out the route for each receiver from left to right. So when I said the set, trips left X right, the H back knew he would be 2nd receiver and 9 was his route.
So if we had like a 2 reciever set with a TE pass play and I wanted the TE on the left, it would be “Pro Left” so the X and TE would know to be on the Left, and the Y on the right.
This would be a typical play if we needed a bunch of yards…
“Pro Left 768” and that’s all I would call. X and TE knew to go left, Y right, O line straight pass blocking, tailback and fullback max protection, X runs a post corner 7, TE runs a deep cross 6, Y runs a post 8.
Doesn’t have to be complicated to be effective. I have no idea, of course, how Chudzinski delineates anything, it could be like quantum theory, but it doesn’t have to be.
Official ABC Fan Club President
Anybody But Clausen
by Jelly Wedge on Apr 28, 2011 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the breakdown.
Rec’d.
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Apr 28, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I was drunk last night, I have no idea why I went into all that
But thanks for the rec
Official ABC Fan Club President
Anybody But Clausen
BTW
per Darin Gannt this morning. Panthers are possibly looking at Marc Bulger for one year to mentor Cam, Gannt said its almost all but Certain Cam is going to be the pick and now the panthers are discussing which veteran to target to sign for a year or two for Cam to learn from.
Could you get a link on that statement P-Train?
Just want to see where you read that.
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Gantt just said that he thinks Bulger would be "perfect" for the Vet position,
didn’t mention the Panthers looking at him.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Apr 27, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Did Gantt also say it was certain that Newton is the pick?
I find it hard to believe that he’d be that certain about the Panthers drafting him…
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't recall him saying it was certain.
but from his tweets he’s still pretty adamant Cam will be the pick.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Apr 27, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=369&line=203389&spln=1 “the part all but certain they are picking Cam” is part of a seperate article i read yesterday also via rotworld
by PantherTrain on Apr 27, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok thanks!
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought Gantt was off the Panthers beat.
Or is he writing this to fill his time when not yawning over the lack of activity in his new beat?
I'm pretty sure officially he still is,
but I think he enjoys the interaction with the fans. And of course being reassigned didn’t stop the fans from continuing to ask him questions everyday.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Apr 27, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
OR... Ah, So, he now on Panther payroll, spleading farse infomation. Make Buffaro
think hard about making move. Our pran for domination going vely werl.
I often wish I could sell my brain to someone else. They'd be smarter, but I wouldn't give a crap, plus I could buy a new car.
Hurney and Gantt:
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Apr 27, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
It's Pinky and the Brain of course it's green!
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques
Yet another non-QB thread derailed by the Panther Train because of his love for Cam
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
by BW Smith on Apr 27, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm hoping
he’ll be riding the rails to the Buffallo Bills thread tomorrow around 8:45 p.m.
by Swamp Panther on Apr 27, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
Jones is better value at 10+ overall than Green 1st overall
And he might wind up being the better receiver.
And I am doubtful Green or Jones could have 700+ yards as a rookie if we don’t upgrade our QB.
stay thirsty my friends
by southtunnel on Apr 27, 2011 12:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
In my mind
different type receivers. I would take Green over Jones any day.
Oh god yes.
Jones is a big, physical receiver, but we have one of those in LaFell and Gettis is hardly small.
Give me a difference maker at WR, if we’re drafting one. A guy that teams HAVE to double.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Hell if Gettis develops well in his next season
We’ll potentially have two receivers that HAVE to be covered, with a big physical receiver in Lafell that we can squeeze the ball to in tough situations.
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
…provide we have a decent QB
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
*provided
ughh — I hate typos.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
Well yea there is that....
Darn Clausen, why couldn’t he have been the second coming of Manning?!?!?
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Fun fact for those who trumpet college stats.
Clausen’s stats his junior year in a pro style offense were better than Manning’s in the same criteria. In fact out of a select group of QB’s in a pro style offense, the only stat Clausen was beaten in was YPA by Matt Stafford. Here’s a link to the article with the spreadsheet down at the bottom.
http://walterfootball.com/mattblog091229.php
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Apr 27, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
JC7 was awesome at ND.
I think he can be awesome again [strikes up gospel choir]……
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
by OldhamA on Apr 27, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm going to rec this comment for two reasons.
1. You called him JC7, yet ironically you hate the moniker PP7. I find this creatively humorous.
2. You have a gospel choir with you to sing on cue when you mention JC7.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
(because usually you're not...)
j/k
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
Why do you hate "PP7"
Because of golden eye?
http://twitter.com/#!/TheeSteveJohns
https://www.facebook.com/TheeSteveJohnson
by Thee Steve Johnson on Apr 27, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we forget how good of a prospect he was.
And how much of a steal we were perceived to have gotten. Most of us thought we nailed our franchise QB, then we have one bad season and he’s scapegoated for it. Other guys who struggled are getting passes or flying under the radar, but Clausen get’s the brunt of the blame.
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Apr 27, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Not going to turn this into a JC7 pissing contest...
but he didn’t do himself any favors by not showing improvement throughout the course of the year
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
Yeah, everyone was waiting for something to click
Somehow Gettis and LaFell even improved, while JC didn’t… You’d think that would happen simultaneously.
stay thirsty my friends
Depends on how much improvement you wanted to see.
He’s a better pro than when he started.
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Apr 28, 2011 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I wanted to see enough improvement to be able to say...
“Hey, we’ve got a franchise QB in the waiting here, let’s pick someone else in 2011”
And we didn’t see that.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
Given the situation we had I really didn't expect to see him remove all doubt.
I did see him start to pick up on some stuff late in the year. I remember one play against Pittsburgh where he pump faked and got James Harrison to jump, then rolled out past him to his left and threw a back shoulder strike downfield to Mike Goodson. I think it might have even been on third down, but don’t quote me on that. He was more willing to go downfield later in the year, as well as step up and trust his pocket. He was still awful, no question there, and I’m very concerned that he tuned out his coaches. However I think he has enough potential to warrant another chance with a better QB coach and a veteran ahead of him. And a rookie behind him, because we do have to hedge our bets.
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Apr 28, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty much. It's the issue that comes with being the QB.
Everybody loves you when the team wins and hates you when the team loses.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I'm going to have to side with Oldham on this one
I think I’d rather have JC year two as opposed to who I think we might get. Might just be cold feet though.
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques
Me too.
Ron Rivera, the Most Interesting Coach in the World. Stay thirsty my friends!
by Tarheel Soldier on Apr 27, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Uhm, I think you're forgetting he slipped to the 2nd round
Clearly he wasn’t at the top of many boards
stay thirsty my friends
He was sick in college
http://twitter.com/#!/TheeSteveJohns
https://www.facebook.com/TheeSteveJohnson
by Thee Steve Johnson on Apr 27, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
So was Matt Leinart
And Brady Quinn
And Troy Smith
And Colt Brennan
And Timmy Chang
And Graham Harrell
And I think you get my point.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
Not really
I could care less about the other guys. I was just saying Clausen was sick in college. No need to kick him in the balls. Y’all really need some chill pills or something. You would think this guy was a petter ass….“8 year olds dude” jeeez
http://twitter.com/#!/TheeSteveJohns
https://www.facebook.com/TheeSteveJohnson
by Thee Steve Johnson on Apr 27, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
And I was just saying that him being sick in college means nothing.
I’m not kicking anyone in the balls. I’m just telling it like it is.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
Ok...
http://twitter.com/#!/TheeSteveJohns
https://www.facebook.com/TheeSteveJohnson
by Thee Steve Johnson on Apr 27, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
15-18ish at ND.
Decent stats in his Junior season, but the lack of statement wins were all the warning signs I needed.
When your best win is a Hula Bowl win against Hawaii, well, yer doin it wrong.
"I only brought it bowling, I didn't rent it shoes, I'm not buying it a f@cking beer, he's not taking your f@cking turn, Dude."
~Walter Sobchak
How many points do you want the guy to score?
http://twitter.com/#!/TheeSteveJohns
https://www.facebook.com/TheeSteveJohnson
by Thee Steve Johnson on Apr 27, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
enough to win games
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
Gee how did you think up that one?
http://twitter.com/#!/TheeSteveJohns
https://www.facebook.com/TheeSteveJohnson
by Thee Steve Johnson on Apr 27, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
And before you get all pissed off...
I know ND had a shitty defense. I was just kidding around.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
This.
It’s not a difficult concept.
I mean, look at a couple of QBs in this year’s draft. Take them off of their team last season and they win half as many games.
If you’d have benched Jimmy, ND would still be 5-7, 6-6, or 7-5.
"I only brought it bowling, I didn't rent it shoes, I'm not buying it a f@cking beer, he's not taking your f@cking turn, Dude."
~Walter Sobchak
This is absolutely not true.
Go back and look at his season, he’s the reason Notre Dame was competitive. Put a lesser guy in, and Notre Dame is lucky to win 3, even four games. Look at his statlines, the guy was throwing for 300 yards and a couple of scores a game in a pro style offense, yet his team still couldn’t pull out a victory.
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Apr 28, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Notre Dame was 8-5 in their first season 'post Jimmy.'
He never achieved an 8-5 record. He was 7-6 as a sophomore and 6-6 as a junior.
So, I guess I was wrong. Take Jimmy out and they get better.
"I only brought it bowling, I didn't rent it shoes, I'm not buying it a f@cking beer, he's not taking your f@cking turn, Dude."
~Walter Sobchak
Maybe some better defensive play now that Charlie Weiss is gone...
Contributed to that?
Here’s Clausen’s statlines for his junior year in the games Notre Dame lost.
@Michigan L 38-34, 25/42, 336 yards, 3 TD’s 0 INT’s.
USC L 34-27, 24/43, 260 yards, 2 TD’s 0 INT’s.
Navy L 23-21, 37/51, 452 yards, 2 TD’s, 1 INT
@Pittsburgh L 27-22, 27/42, 283 yards, 1 TD 1 INT
Connecticut L 33-30, 30/45, 329 yards, 2 TD’s, 0 INT’s
@Stanford L 45-38, 23/30, 340 yards, 5 TD’s, 0 INT.
He also added rushing scores in the games against USC, Pittsburgh, and Connecticut. I don’t know how you can say he was the reason they were losing.
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Apr 28, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
That's not what I said.
I said he didn’t do enough to win. How is that statement at all untrue? When you lose, no one did enough to win.
Sometimes when you win, its due in large part to an individual willing his team to win.
JC did not appear to have that skill last season. Not even flashes of that skill.
"I only brought it bowling, I didn't rent it shoes, I'm not buying it a f@cking beer, he's not taking your f@cking turn, Dude."
~Walter Sobchak
2nd year pro Jimmy Clausen.
Could be just as good as Carr, Kitna, or McCown. Although I’d rather have higher standards.
Jones needs to have the ball in his hands to do most of his damage, which means he is more dependent on his QB than Green. Green just needs the ball in his general direction. Although I do agree value wise, I’d rather have Jones at +10 than Greens at 1. However I think you could see Jones go as high as 6th to Cleveland.
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Apr 27, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
for what its worth, over at a gambline website you can bet on who the panthers take number 1. They have Cam Newton, Marcell Dareus, Patrick Peterson and AJ Green. intresting, Green isnt even avaliable to bet on while Patrick Peterson is and its a 12:1 shot bet.
correction
They DONT have AJ green as a option to bet on, sorry guys, typed it wrong. again corr THEY DONT have AJ Green to bet on in the list at all
by PantherTrain on Apr 27, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Hurney could make a lot of cash on the side.
What’s the bet limit?
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
lol, that could be one hell of a bonus for Hurney...
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Apr 27, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Warren Sapp just gave us a C on our last five drafts.
Fat fuck.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
And gave the Saints an A-.
Dude, the Saints are all about Brees – the guy they picked up from FA. Take him away and they’re a 4 win team.
God I seriously with they’d get some actual experts in, rather than handing jobs to ex-pros who have taken one too many hits.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
The Panthers are a small market team...
No one cares about us except us Panther fans. It’s sad really, we were always a force or sniffing the playoffs in almost every season under Fox. I don’t understand the hate either…
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess it's just easy to dismiss us because they won't get a ton of abusive responses from the
Panthers fan/media personnel.
Sapp went into detail about the Falcon and Bucs picks, then just said “Yeah the Saints have won a SB, so they’re awesome at drafting”.
For the Panthers he said “You have 15 (I think it was) draftees starting for you….but they wouldn’t start anywhere else in the league”. Idiot.
As I’ve maintained for the last year, this is a very talented roster. I think we do a hell of a job at drafting on the whole (besides the odd mistake – like Edwards) and it was the coaching holding us back. Not a lack of talent.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I know his brain is practically a plate of scrambled eggs because of all the hits he took playing football...
But I never thought he would be that monumentally stupid.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
+1
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
It's synonymous with the profession.
Lazy journalists are everywhere. It’s so easy to go with the flow.
The worst part is, those that form their own opinions are seen as being controversial just to stand out. Rather than, y’know, doing their jobs and researching.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
It's like with Jamie Dukes...
He always has something different to say just for the sake of disagreeing with someone…
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem with Dukes is that it's true.
He’s as sharp as a box of crayons.
At least he provides discussion though. Most of them just agree and slap each other on the back.
I’m talking about people like Mayock and that dude that hated Clausen….McShay? They have strong views and they back them up by watching film/speaking to scouts, coaches and Front Office people. Basically, doing their jobs.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Yep
Jon Beason, DeAngelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart, Jeff Otah those guys would ride the pine. I think there are 4 pro bowl appearances in there.
Warren fat ass Sapp is a talking head with personality, it’s usually enough to keep some viewers.
“Warren Sapp said the Panthers will take Cam so that means the Panthers are taking Cam” – Panther Train
by Swamp Panther on Apr 27, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
lol
Warren Sapp wouldn’t know what’s up unless it was raining Denny’s Grand Slams.
Disclaimer: BusyBeingAwesome = Irony. And, on a side note. I miss you, Steve Beuerlein.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Apr 27, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
Well
I know his brain is practically a plate of scrambled eggs because of all the hits he took playing football…
It looks like he ate that plate of eggs…
Disclaimer: BusyBeingAwesome = Irony. And, on a side note. I miss you, Steve Beuerlein.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Apr 27, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
or diabettis
cue Wilford Brimley…
Disclaimer: BusyBeingAwesome = Irony. And, on a side note. I miss you, Steve Beuerlein.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Apr 27, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
...
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
lol, his pronunciation in those commercials always cracked me up
I thought it was just me, guess I was wrong
No, it wasn't just you lol.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
lol, definitely not alone in that one.
Disclaimer: BusyBeingAwesome = Irony. And, on a side note. I miss you, Steve Beuerlein.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Apr 27, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
AH, yes. The 'beetus...
"I only brought it bowling, I didn't rent it shoes, I'm not buying it a f@cking beer, he's not taking your f@cking turn, Dude."
~Walter Sobchak
It looks like he ate that plate of eggs…
And then finished it off with all the chickens on the farm.
(And no, that wasn’t a racially-motivated joke.)
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
(And no, that wasn’t a racially-motivated joke.)
Just fatist…
Disclaimer: BusyBeingAwesome = Irony. And, on a side note. I miss you, Steve Beuerlein.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Apr 27, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
fatist...lol
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
The guy is just another talking piece that really doesn’t talk very well. Better to just ignore him.
Proud Member of Cat Scratch Reader
I notice they have Holt on there too now.
It’s where players go to die apparently.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I gotta say, while Green is an interesting idea, taking him at #1 is far riskier than taking Gabbert, Newton, or almost anyone else (minus Bowers). As of today, I have boarded the Dareus Express…
The thought of having that guy on our D-line is very nice….
Proud Member of Cat Scratch Reader
(minus Bowers) is starting to pick up steam as a go-to meme Ivan, well done
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
I always read his last name and want to say Bowser....
Well if this is how he’d be on the DL I want him, Lol!!!
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
On a slightly related note (not really).
Having watched this vid:
Newton Highlights, and having read up on Newton, I’ve come to the conclusion that he has an ego the size of Manhattan.
He’s going to have to win straight away or he’s going to rub people the wrong way.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Manhattan? That small?
I figured it would be at least the size of China.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
If he achieves anything in the NFL it'll get there.
As much as people disliked Clausen’s personality, I dislike Newton’s. He seems so disingenuous.
Not that it matters in a results based business. Smith isn’t a nice person either, but he backed it up on the field. Everybody loves a winner.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Or the milky way....at least....
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
A funny caption to that caption...
According to Jenn Sterger, it’s the only thing that big.
One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.
by BW Smith on Apr 27, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ha!
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 27, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
For all this talk
of derailing threads I’m not sure I’ve seen a WR related post in the bottom half of this screen and Panther Train is nowhere to be found…peculiar? Well, Armanti Edwards knocks and Jimmy Clausen pedastals aside I like the AJ Green references to the Johnson’s and Fitzgerald. He’s probably the one potential #1 I haven’t seen much of but IF he can be one of those elite WR he could certainly help our offense produce regardless of the many other variables. Once again great write up James only one more to go
The problem is, WRs are fickle creatures.
For every Fitzgerald and Johnson, there’s a Rogers and Williams.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
haha, no alter ego
Just someone who takes offense to any Panther fan that acknowledges our previous coaching staff’s refusal to work with rookies and then throws AE under a bus. QB’s are pretty hard to predict as well just saying we should be even across the board with our opinions
I wouldn't throw him under the bus - he's on the team so I'll root for him.
But I think we gave up far too much for him.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Received
Hard to dictate tone via printed words ya know. I think our new coaching staff will justify the pick by utilizing his versatility. I’ve seen him play many times and he definitely has the drive. I hope they get the CBA worked out sooner rather than later so we can watch our new team and new coaches in action.
Agreed mcdonaldwr
I think AE is underutilized. I even did a fan post on how him being on the team is reason to not draft Cam, it wasn’t well received. j/k on the altereo too btw.
I think the thread getting derailed 50 or so comments ago just goes to show not too many fans are eager for Green to go #1 overall.
by Swamp Panther on Apr 27, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
No worries man
We have all beaten these topics to death and then some. I’m not sure if I read that fan post (I didn’t have a username on here until a few weeks ago) but I most definitely would have received it. haha, I agree though about the random comments. Losing Steve Smith is huge but I don’t think grabbing a “top rated WR” as a replacement is the appropriate choice. That article on CSR a couple weeks ago about the multiple top pick WR busts (and our ability to find talent later in the draft) has made me very cautious of top pick wr’s. It also makes sense that the QB discussions were finally minimized for the last week or two only to resurface the day before the draft.
WIngo just listed 3 things that can affect the teams perfromance due to this screwed up off season
1. A team that drafts a rookie QB.
2. A team going through a coaching change.
3. A team without a vet QB.
Funny, we might just fit all 3…
http://twitter.com/#!/TheeSteveJohns
https://www.facebook.com/TheeSteveJohnson
by Thee Steve Johnson on Apr 27, 2011 2:48 PM EDT reply actions
i don't like it
No team who tried to use a receiver to make a QB better ever won a superbowl with that QB. Kitna, Carr, Schaub, etc. If your QB sucks, there’s only so much a receiver can do.
All those people who hate on Cam and say he has character issues seem to ignore that Green got suspended for part of last season.
I think Smitty is staying. I think he’ll see Cam, or whatever QB we bring in (there are many possiblities besides Cam), and Chud’s offense, and decide he wants to stay. Not only that, but he has no leverage to force a trade. Teams will offer far too little to get him.
Obviously I could be wrong, but the draft is too soon for us to have a long drawn out argument.
you guys are going to hate me...
I don’t get green. His qb was only 25 yards better per game when he played , his total yardage per year went down during college, and he averaged less than 1 td per game. I would much rather draft hankerson who had like 50% more yardage and tds. Losing 89 and drafting green is going backwards in my opinion. I think he is a bust. Let Detroit draft him.
Well, let's see here
- Overall pick, Matthew Stafford left for the NFL and he was playing with a freshman QB in 2009, only went down two YPC, with is a much better indicator. Then in 2010, he was suspended for 4 games, only playing in 9 games with 9 TD’s and averaging 6.3 catches per game. And just FYI, more yards = more first downs = more points = more wins.
You may be one of only about 100 people in the world who thinks Green will be a bust.
Official ABC Fan Club President
Anybody But Clausen
I don't think he'll be a bust, but I think he'll be more Sydney Rice than Calvin Johnson.
There’s much better value to be found later — Hankerson, Little, etc.
I often wish I could sell my brain to someone else. They'd be smarter, but I wouldn't give a crap, plus I could buy a new car.
Rick, I respect your posts and opinions alot
but you need to stay away from the guys’ site who’s doing all the projections. He’s using a mathematical model that doesn’t make any sense. Green has as much talent as Fitz, Megatron or AJ. A .1 here or there, or a few inches here or there doesn’t discount how well he plays on Saturdays, soon to be Sundays.
Official ABC Fan Club President
Anybody But Clausen
by Jelly Wedge on Apr 27, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
This doesnt sound like #1 pick talent
to me. This wouldn’t be the first time I swam upstream. I wouldnt take him in the first round or the second. I didn’t know he got suspended. Why did he?
He sold one of his jerseys
http://twitter.com/#!/TheeSteveJohns
https://www.facebook.com/TheeSteveJohnson
by Thee Steve Johnson on Apr 27, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
You wouldn't want a TD per game guy, with 94 yards per game on your team?
Wow, got no rebuttal for that.
Official ABC Fan Club President
Anybody But Clausen
by Jelly Wedge on Apr 27, 2011 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
aj green
would love to see aj on the team b/c i wanted to see jimmy get another chance. then if clausen fails with smith( if he is with us) aj green and a mix with gettis and lafell with some jeremy shockey then clausen doesnt need to be an nfl qb
Here's a "little WR" gem I just found over at FFM...
Kealoha Pilares
Absolutely a later round steal; currently projected somewhere between the 25th to 40th WR off the board:
Pilares Highlights:
88 catches in 2010, leads all of our “small WRs” in receptions (of the ones that we are concentrating on, 13 in total)
1,306 receiving yards in 2010, 2nd among our “small WRs”
15 TDs in 2010, 2nd among our “small WRs”
4.42 in the 40-yard dash, 5th among our “small WRs”
1.51 in the 10-yard dash, tied for best overall among our “small WRs” with Torrey Smith
2nd best Bench Press total among our “small WRs”, tied with Torrey Smith
40.5" Vertical Leap, 2nd best behind Torrey Smith…0.5" away from the top spot
One of the best scoring on the Wonderlic test, among any of the 2011 WRs — big or small
I often wish I could sell my brain to someone else. They'd be smarter, but I wouldn't give a crap, plus I could buy a new car.
The next Steve Smith maybe?
CAN'T WAIT!
The question is not how far. The question is, do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far is as needed? - El Duche
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