Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Why Hockey Fans Should Root For Devils Vs. Kings

Why is Blaine Gabbert a top prospect in this years draft?

So I was watching Charley Casserly's break down of Blaine Gabbert vs past NFL QB today when I came across a shocking realization or "conspiracy theory" as some of you may call it. Charley Casserly's one of Gabberts biggest supporters was kind enough to do a breakdown of  Blaine Gabbert vs the recent first round QB's and if you haven't seen it here is the link.

Now here is Casserly's rankings of Gabbert vs other first round QB's:,,,after the jump...

Star-divide

1. Sam Bradford

2. Matt Ryan

3. Matthew Stafford

4. Blaine Gabbert

5. Mark Sanchez

6. Joe Flacco

7. Josh Freeman

I was very "enlighted" by this list because frankly I don't agree with it. If you watch the video and listen  closely there is a common theme that repeats itself when Casserly compares Gabbert to these other QB's and thats athleticism. It seems to me Casserly is basing his rankings solely off of intangibles and athleticism. Heres the proof:

 

About Ryan: "Gabbert in my opinion is a better athlete, better arm."

- OK thats the first time he mentions athleticism

About Matthew Stafford, "Accuracy is pretty even between the two of them. Coming out of college, I give Gabbert an edge on athletic ability."

-OK thats the second time

Now you tell me is it really an achievement to be a better athlete than Matt Ryan and Stafford? Both of these QB's are not exactly "studs" or" physical specimens" at the QB position.

About Gabbert himself, "Athletic ability, I think, is excellent. The guy can move out of the pocket, he can throw on the run, he can make those kinds of plays. His arm is good enough to make all the throws. The Iowa game stands out to me. He made a number of terrific downfield throws in that game. Also, the guy can read a defense. He can pick from one to two. He can decipher things. [He] didn't have a great receiving corps so he had to check off and go to the second and third receiver a number of times. Smart guy, leader, this guy, I think, can be a star in the league."

Now am I crazy or is athletism the becoming the focal point of Casserly's assessment of Gabbert because if so then Cam Newton should be the best prospect to come out since Michael Vick.

His arm is good enough to make all the throws.


His first comment about is arm strength is relatively weak to me. His arm strength is just "Good Enough". But I'll cut him some slack for this because Dree Brees doesn't exactly have a strong arm either. Still though he fails to convince me that this kid is a top prospect or is he any better than the guys listed above.

Here is where I draw the line and start to put things in perspective. First I ask myself why is this guy rated so highly by the NFL Draft analysts(Casserly, Mayock. Mel Kiper, Lombardi, and McShay). He doesn't have the numbers, He played in a spread offense in which is completion percentage was low(63%), The deep ball accuracy is not there and intermediate to long range throws are not shaky at best, also he doesn't really impress you on film or come off as a top prospect when you watch him.

Now some of you may argue that he projects to be a better pro than the other QB's with his leadership and other intangibles. OK then if that is the case then why not take Ponder, Greg McElroy or TJ Yates for that matter.

The difficulty of figuring out why Blaine Gabbert is a top prospect lead me to a conspiracy theory that I think many of you will find interesting to say the least and it starts with this(research based):

Casserly, Mayock. Mel Kiper, Lombardi, and McShay are all "associates" of Blaine Gabberts agent which is Tom Condon. Terry Shea who happens to be Gabberts QB coach is apart of Condons staple of assistances I believe also. Now is it a coincidence that most of the QB's Shea has worked with in the past are clients of Tom Condon?

I don't think so. I am now at the point were I believe Gabbert is a top prospect based off of his connections rather than his talent and production.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Gabbert wasn't even on Mayock's radar until it was made known that Condon was his agent. Then and only then did Mayock shoot Gabbert to the top of the ranks as a top prospect in this years draft. This may explain why everyone at NFL.com shoots down all the other prospects while praising Gabberts talents. I shouldn't even have to mention how Newton, Gabberts biggest rival, is treated over there by the likes a Casserly and Michael Lombardi. Why aren't any of the other QB's( besides Newton) getting the same coverage as Gabbert. Jake Locker, Ryan Mallett, Christian Ponder as well as others are receiving less publicity than Gabbert and all three were more well known than Gabbert was before January. I do believe the trend is shifting though as we get closer to the NFL Draft. ESPN Draft Expert Mel Kiper is starting to back off the Gabbert publicity stunt just a bit as more and more reports suggest the Panthers are taking Cam Newton which the first pick.

I know most of you will just write this off as another Gabbert hate post but it is goes way deeper than that. This is an Average college QB who NO ONE mentioned before Luck decided not to declare as a top NFL prospect and a potienall Carolina Panther. Why is this? I have my theories and you have yours. I think some of you may honestly believe Gabbert is a top 10 prospect and thats fine but ask yourself these questions as you ponder the thought.

Was Gabbert considered a top QB before the season?

Was Gabbert considered a top QB after the season before the Luck announcement?

As I watch on film Gabbert does he come off as a Elite QB?

Where would Gabbert be ranked if Luck decided to declare? 

Poll
Based off your own personal assessment of Gabbert where do you think he should be drafted?
Top 10
74 votes
1st Round
110 votes
2nd Round
71 votes
3rd Round
38 votes
4th Round
9 votes
5th to 7th round
3 votes
Undrafted
7 votes

312 votes | Poll has closed

The content of these posts are those of the user/fan making the post only

Comment 161 comments  |  1 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Uhg...

I was waiting for someone to bring up Yates……I do not want in any form or fashion….I’m excited to see the Heels move on without him…

Now where's my REAL fans at?!

by UNCMattyt99 on Apr 10, 2011 7:02 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm excited about the Tarheels QB's this year also

I then Renner can do a decent Job until Marquis Williams gets ready to take over the reigns at QB

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 10, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Renner is no joke

If he plays up to his potential, Williams will have to switch positions to get on the field. I don’t want T.J. Yates on the Panthers, as I don’t see him being an NFL prospect at all. I do think he was the MVP of this last season and i’m glad he was around to keep the team together…

by kittylover on Apr 11, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

his is an Average college QB who NO ONE mentioned before Luck decided not to declare as a top NFL prospect and a potienall Carolina Panther. Why is this?

We’ve answered this a million times. It’s because he didn’t declare until after Luck decided to stay in school. He was considered a top QB prospect in next year’s draft, but then he suddenly decided to enter the NFL and everybody reacted accordingly.

by SlayerGhaleon on Apr 10, 2011 8:31 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Ok so why would you expect Luck to come out considering the fact he is a sophmore?

If you say its because he is a Top prospect then the same principal applies to Blaine Gabbert. Therefore it should have been expected of Gabbert to come out this year.

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 10, 2011 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

For the same reason that everyone thought Bradford would come out as a sophomore...

they thought he had nothing to gain from staying in college another year (I typically don’t agree with it, but that shoulder injury is hard to argue with). However, that’s a rarity for prospects (especially QB prospects). If Auburn hadn’t won the champ game this year, I’m almost positive Newton declaring would’ve been a surprise, since unless you’re getting the type of praise Bradford or Luck are/is getting as prospects, there’s usually the assumption that one will stick around to at least try and win a title (or major bowl, depending on what team they’re on) and hone their craft even further. Fortunately, the NFL is not the NBA where so many college prospects usually have little to no motivation to return after 1, MAYBE 2 seasons….

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Apr 10, 2011 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

People assumed that Luck was coming out because he was a concensus #1

He never stated that he was declaring, the media assumed that Luck was because every other college kid that was a concensus #1 has in the past. You can’t fault Gabbert because the media did not predict the draft class accordingly. As soon as he declared, McShay jumped on the bandwagon!

by Scotch on the Prowl on Apr 10, 2011 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's the point here?

Everybody knows Luck is a better prospect. What difference does it make when who did or didn’t decide to enter the draft?

stay thirsty my friends

by southtunnel on Apr 10, 2011 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

We have nothing better to debate lol

I hope Luck reads all of this one day, and realizes what anger and despair he hath wrought upon our blogging community!!

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Apr 10, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

It makes a diffrence because if luck was in the draft

Gabbert would be a third freakin round prospect thats why!!

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 12, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

How do you know this?

Luck’s being in the draft or not doesn’t change Gabbert’s skill set. I doubt he would have declared had Luck done the same however, given he could have been the #1 overall selection next year.

Yes I'm a dude.

by Flowing Willow on Apr 13, 2011 7:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Its because nobody heard of his ass until after luck decided not to declare.

No it doesn’t change his skill set but if Luck was in the draft the media wouldn’t praise Gabbert as such a top prospect. IF Luck had declared for the draft this would be the order of top QB prospects.

1. Luck
2. Newton
3. Mallett
4. Locker
5. Ponder/Gabbert

Gabbert being a top prospect is not the result of his football season its the result of a overhyped prototypically sized QB that has to shoot up to the top of draft every year. Gabberts performance during the season didn’t earn him this spot, the Media(NFLN) gave it to him.

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 13, 2011 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's not logical.

If Luck was in this draft then Gabbert would be viewed as the second or third QB. Probably second because most scouts have him first right now. I don’t get how Luck being in a draft suddenly shakes things up. It just bumps each prospect down. It would just be

1. Luck.
2. Gabbert
3. Newton
4. Mallett

and I’m not even going to get into my thoughts on Locker being above Gabbert.

Disclaimer: BusyBeingAwesome = Irony. And, on a side note. I miss you, Steve Beuerlein.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Apr 13, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

You can make an legit arguement that Locker is better than Gabbert

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 13, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

You probably can...

but you’re not going to convince very many people…

One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.

Follow me on Twitter

by BW Smith on Apr 13, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who heard of Luck before this year?

Doesn’t change the fact that scouts knew who this guy was, and didn’t bother to rank him because he wasn’t expected to come out. Luck declaring of course changed that. Newton is far easier to hype because of his skillset, plus winning the NC, and his sudden rise to the top.

Yes I'm a dude.

by Flowing Willow on Apr 13, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I sure did.

Cam Newton is a household name now a days. You can’t blame the guy for winning games for his team. Of well of course you wouldn’t know about that seeing how Gabbert doesn’t win games for his team.

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 13, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do us both a favor and try not to bring personal attacks in.

And I heard of Luck…and Gabbert. It all depends on which outlets you’re checking. And if his name sticks with you.

Yes I'm a dude.

by Flowing Willow on Apr 13, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure Newton is a house hold name... now

After his team won the National Championship and how every single media outlet has been talking about him for the last 5 months or so.

Did anyone know who he was before this season? No, just like Gabbert. No one was talking about Cam Newton this time last year. He came out of no where, but somehow in DT’s world that’s acceptable because he’s Cam Newton.

by aceofsween on Apr 13, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah its acceptable because Cam led his team to wins

He was a superstar. See you fail to realize that Gabbert hasn’t done shit at the college level and thats why no one heard of him until AFTER Luck decided to stay in school. Are you getting this now? Gabbert is the product of Luck(pun intended) deciding not to declare. Newton is the product of working his ass out and producing wins for is team. Not saying Gabbert doesn’t work hard but his production just isn’t there. But in Ace’s world this is perfectly acceptable because he is NOT Cam Newton

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 13, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Newton never even makes it to the comparison stage for me.

Here’s how I look at things. I take the player, and evaluate them on an individual level. Afterwards, if I say, “Okay, I would want that guy on my team,” I move on to the next round. Newton doesn’t even get that far. He has all of the same questions (and more) about his QB play that Gabbert does, on top of his horrible track record off the field.

To me, it’s a no brainer. The thing people like you can argue with are his athleticism, which is over-the-top and unnecessary for a QB (basically, it’s a nice perk and nothing more), and his collegiate awards. Those don’t change the reason I complete write him off and they never will.

by aceofsween on Apr 13, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please spare me

I haven’t said one thing about Cam Newton’s athletism yet. I’ll just let the Panthers do my arguing seeing has how according to reports the Panthers are not going to pick Gabbert with the first pick and Newton will most probably be the pick.

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 13, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Swing and a miss.

It doesn’t matter to me if the Panthers draft him or not.

by aceofsween on Apr 13, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its whatever of course you won't admit it

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 13, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've already announced my feelings on this matter

I don’t worry about things I can control. What I can control is which team I choose to follow.

by aceofsween on Apr 13, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh hell no

Please don’t start with this personal attack shit… because Ace basically kept calling my stupid and all you “jock riders” rec’d it. Cool cool now you want to complain about the personal attacks? Get the hell out of here with that crap

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 13, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Come on DT...let's not get carried away.

Go have a beer and take a break man.

One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.

Follow me on Twitter

by BW Smith on Apr 13, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not ace, and I didn't rec that post.

I’m talking specifically about our conversation, and it’s hard to take you serious when you disparage me with phrases like

"Of well of course you wouldn’t know about that (winning) seeing how Gabbert doesn’t win games for his team.

I personally try to never bring personal attacks into a conversation because it adds nothing to the debate and reflects poorly on me. I’d appreciate if everyone I talked to felt the same way.

Yes I'm a dude.

by Flowing Willow on Apr 13, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

And there were so many other things he could have gotten offended about...

Hell, I’m surprised he didn’t start calling me a racist for saying he was a monkey. I thought for sure that would raise more eyebrows than the internet thug wannabe photo.

by aceofsween on Apr 13, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gabbert could have used another year in school.

He struck while the iron was hot, as without Luck he has a legitimate shot of going with the first pick and likely in the top 5-10. However he was regarded as a top QB before the year started, and even afterwards. If he had stayed in school, he would have been the favorite along with Matt Barkley to go #1.

"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox

"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)

by Flowing Willow on Apr 10, 2011 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Luck is not a sophomore

He is a red-shirt sophomore, in fact, a junior, who, I understand, may actually pull enough credits to graduate at the end of this year. He may not be the second coming of Peyton Manning, but Harbaugh claimed he was the best QB in 20 years when he was a red shirt freshman. Add to that the smarts to carry an engineering class load heavy enough to graduate early, and we see a decision-maker with an arm. Who couldn’t use that any year?
That’s what broke the Panthers’ (and their fans’) hearts when he chose to stay. I do not believe it was Carolina that drove his decision nor just the joy of college comradery, but the labor problems that would steal his prep time before his rookie season; did I mention he’s very bright? {Incidentally, players must be separated from high school by three years to qualify for the draft so he must be at least a junior.} If you will pardon the expression, Gabbert is not in the same league as Luck; he knew his best chance as a top pick consideration was a year other than Luck’s arrival; barring catastrophic injury, Luck will be the first pick whenever he comes out. Unless the Panthers have another awful season this year, I hope he goes to grad school for that last year of eligibility.

by Cat Fan on Apr 11, 2011 6:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

All I know

Is that I will more than likely hate Luck and whatever team that gets him next year forever. Especially if our #1 turns into a bust, the thought of missing out on Luck continually makes me want to throw up!

by Scotch on the Prowl on Apr 11, 2011 8:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Gabbert was the #1 rated QB in his class coming out of high school

He was on the cover of ESPN two years ago and has been a highly touted prospect for quite some time. Just because his hype machine didn’t hit the circles you frequent does not mean he wasn’t highly thought of. This happens quite a lot. Had many of us honestly heard much of anything about Antonio Rodgers-Cromartie before the draft process started? There are dozens and dozens of highly rated prospects like this, that just sneak up on folks.

There are 120 FBS teams, there are 126 FCS teams, let’s not even try counting the number of Div II, Div III, NAIA or NJCAA (where Cam Newton came from). There are oodles of prospect to sort through every year. NFL teams pay millions to track and scout them all, yet every season they miss some.

As for conspiracies….A good rule of thumb in life I follow is if I think something is a conspiracy, I have a beer and forget about it. Because in the wholly unlikely event that there is actually a conspiracy; the people involved are too well connected or funded for us to do anything about it.

I really don’t care who we draft at this point, but the fact is Gabbert will probably go in the first round. Possibly quite high in the first round.

Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

by Vagus on Apr 11, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not saying Gabbert is the best option...

…but I haven’t seen such a quick release/delivery since Marino. Seriously, do a search on some of the videos on YouTube…it’s almost breathtaking. Add in his athletic ability, size, mobility, above average arm strength, pro day workout with receivers he’d only passed to for a few days, accuracy in short or medium throws anywhere on the field (I realize he isn’t a very accurate deep ball passer), his familiarity with running a system with often 5 receivers, ability to run the offense under center (saw his footwork during his pro day and it was ON POINT) OR out of the shotgun, and one should recognize his potential value. Does this mean he’s a “can’t miss” prospect? No…but he has a lot of the variables that says he could be.

I wasn’t directing this at you, Vagus…just posted it here because I’m lazy. :-)

by Mr_Sticky on Apr 12, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well to me

The kid is nothing more then another J. Clausen and the Panthers feel the same way; Gabbert is not garbage at all but he is not a franchise QB either. He may be a decent starter one day but he is nowhere near the caliber of a A.Luck, C.Newton, heck even a R.Mallet or J.Locker.

I wouldn’t be suprised if Gabbert falls all the way to the second round similar to what happened to Clausen a year ago, I just don’t believe the hype of this kid from the media.

by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Apr 11, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

And you base this on what?

by SlayerGhaleon on Apr 11, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you're making a skewed assessment of the 2011 QB class...

…of course that’s just my opinion…as you assessment is yours. But I think Gabbert is the caliber of Newton and Mallet…and almost certainly better than Locker (since Gabbert’s major knock has been his accuracy…and Locker is FAR more inaccurate in ALL his throws); Luck is obviously in another realm to all of them as a pro prospect, so I won’t speak to that. But to so cavalierly dismiss Gabbert is a little myopic, in my opinion; he’ll equal at probably 2 of your 3 last mentions as far as pro viability.

But who knows, right? We’re all just spitballing and hoping our prognostications are on point so we can lord it over someone. ;-)

by Mr_Sticky on Apr 12, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nailed it!

Reading this article brought up memories of when I read an article that broke in mid 2010 from the former agent that spilled the beans about early contact with agents, and payments ect.

The part of that article which I am reminded of is when he gives a few scenarios where because of association with Kiper he would get Kiper to call during a meeting with the college guy and pump up his ego and get him a boost via his big board and mocks.

I looked for the article but couldn’t find it.. but i didn’t look very hard at all.

Good post.. i really enjoyed it.

Also: Go Ponder! Go Noles!

by curiousmanners on Apr 10, 2011 9:33 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm sure it's still on the cnnsi site, if you're so inclined to find it still...

Also, would love to see us end up with Ponder somehow…I’m not sold on the top 3 QB prospects, and with other options who have a legit case for #1, that would be an awesome scenario (however unlikely it is)…

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Apr 10, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

thanks man

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 10, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Best article written by them in ages...

next to the Rick Reilly (before he turned into mindless hack) classic – “Tag, you’re special!”

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Apr 10, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly!

but now he’s another spineless hack, who just repeats what every other sports writer is writing…it’s depressing, really (easterbrook is getting dangerously close to the same territory, or at least is becoming a bit of a parody of himself).

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Apr 10, 2011 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

4th round?

Some of you people are funny.

Go Panthers

by Smitty89 on Apr 10, 2011 9:48 PM EDT reply actions  

To be fair...

if we posted a similar article about Newton, you’d see the same thing lol we’re well past the point of changing anyone’s minds!

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Apr 10, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

The 4th round is when we pick up

Stanzi the Manzi!

Yup, still hitched to that wagon.

Not afraid. - Deuteronomy 31:6

by dowhatchado on Apr 10, 2011 10:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Nothing wrong with that...

If you’re a formula nerd like Rich or myself, he could become the steal of the draft; if not…well, there’s a lot less pressure to start a 3-4th rounder than there is to start a #1 (which would, correctly, force the FO to focus on vets again and get someone who can at the least give us 1 good season, if not 2-3).

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Apr 10, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

About these formulas..

I haven’t studied them, but I’ve read them and I think I might actually believe them. Like you said, if he’s available in the 3rd-4th round, absolute STEAL. I would love to go defense first (I’m leaning Marcel’s way [Hey Marcel, watch this!]), and pray for 65 picks that I don’t hear Rick’s name.
I would also love a mentoring situation while a vet grooms the kid (no puns) and in 2-3 years, we have our stud QB.
A man can dream.

Not afraid. - Deuteronomy 31:6

by dowhatchado on Apr 10, 2011 10:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

He's saying Gabbert is pretty equal to these guys in accuracy, arm strength, decision making, mobility, etc

But is superior to them in athleticism. What’s the big deal about that? It’s true he is a better athlete.

stay thirsty my friends

by southtunnel on Apr 10, 2011 10:03 PM EDT reply actions  

As far as arm goes, Gabbert's no Jay Cutler.

But he’s certainly not a Kyle Orton. His arm falls in the Matt Ryan, Aaron Rodgers range. It is in no way a weakness.

"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox

"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)

by Flowing Willow on Apr 10, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

And other than playing in the spread, that was one of his biggest knocks. The guy is so well rounded that it pains me to think that we’ll draft Newton ahead of him.

stay thirsty my friends

by southtunnel on Apr 11, 2011 7:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh Yeah Front Page!!

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 10, 2011 10:12 PM EDT reply actions  

DT... I hate to break it to you

But you’ve asked this question at least a hundred times and you’ve been presented with all the evidence as to why people rate Gabbert as high as they do. If you can’t at least understand why he is rated as highly as he is, that is no one’s fault but your own. Gabbert, at this moment, is a more complete QB. Newton has more raw physical abilities. But I’ll answer your questions for you:

1) Yes and no. He was expected to come out next year, not this year. And next year, he was expected to be a clear #1 QB overall. You could ask that same question of Newton or any other non-Senior. Who ever spoke of them before this year?

2) That’s really the same question as before. People weren’t talking about any QBs besides Luck before his announcement. And that’s just the way it goes. Usually no one talks about players who haven’t declared unless they’re seniors. Luck is an exception because he was exceptional. And it also depends on your definition of “top rated” as well. Do you mean top rated prospect or top rated college performer? Those are two different things.

3) I’ll assume you mean “As you watch film” and in that case I would have to say that he has his issues. That hop-throw on the run crap isn’t going to cut it in the NFL. He also has a habit of rolling out to the right, which cuts off half the field for him to throw to (not a bad thing if you have a bunch formation to the right though). Both of those problems are very easy to correct.

4) Probably 2 or 3. Same as Newton.

by aceofsween on Apr 10, 2011 10:52 PM EDT reply actions  

I the reason I ask this is because I haven't heard one plausible explanation for why he is a top prospect.

Is it my fault? Maybe

But all the arguements for Gabbert have been weak so far in my opinion. I won’t even though the stats at you this time.

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 10, 2011 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plausible explanation is one post above yours.

You can choose to ignore it if you want, but that’s narrow minded, and not fair to those of us who take the time to try and explain it to you. And honestly I don’t think you’ll change your opinion, the evidence has been there for a while if you bother to look at it.

"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox

"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)

by Flowing Willow on Apr 10, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have looked the evidence.

I have read up on everything that I possibly can and or watched every video I could on Gabbert. I have listened to all of the “Pro” Gabbert draft anaylsts and when someone says he has good deep ball accuracy and then I go turn on the film just to see him overthrowing guys deep multiple times makes me disregard alot of peoples opinions. That maybe my own downfall but at the sametime it doesn’t boat well anaylsts that call a QB “accurate” when in reality he isn’t. This is just one of the many questionable things I hear from people that doesn’t sell Gabbert the prospect to me.

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 11, 2011 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Again, we've answered your questions.

It might not be the answer you’re looking for, but it’s there.

"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox

"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)

by Flowing Willow on Apr 11, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

The conspiracy angle is amusing

It might even be valid. However, I don’t care how highly the entertainment “experts” rate him. Kiper, Mayock, Mcshay….who cares. I wouldn’t draft him. I watched some of the highlights. I’ve seen some of the games this season. All the comments stating “…that’s easily corrected..”. Well, if it were, then Gabbert would’ve corrected it, wouldn’t he. Gabbert doesn’t stand out to me like many others see it. I’m not gonna break out the crystal ball and say he’ll be a bust, that’s not my concern. I’m concerned with risk to reward. If I’m drafting, I’m not taking a guy that I have too many questions about. I’ll skip on him, take a player that I deem to be less risk and move on.

Keep in mind that these entertainment draft “experts” were the same clowns telling us what a steal we got in Clausen. Also, those that say trust in Hurney, well in the “what have you done for me lately category?” I give you Jimmy Clausen, Armanti Edwards, and Everette Brown. Though they aren’t busts yet, the clock is ticking. In Hurney we trust, think again.
 
The conspiracy angle would be a worthwhile topic to study up on. See how many other “bust” prospects were the result of these connections.

by jdough on Apr 10, 2011 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

And that...

…is why Kiper mock-drafts the Panthers to pick anything but QB. He was the biggest supporter for Clausen, and now he’s eating crow because Clausen was overhyped and didn’t live up to expectations. Add to that the fact that, if Kiper were to truly put a QB at #1 for the Panthers to pick, it would mean that he was wrong about Clausen, and he’s totally unwilling to accept “being wrong”.

by NX75649 on Apr 11, 2011 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

So just because Kiper missed on the Clausen pick, we should stop ignoring his opinions?

I mean, he’s only been doing it for over 20 years. He has more credentials than most Draft analysts. No one is going to mock all the picks correctly. Believe it or not Kiper had more correct mock draft picks last year than Mcshay. And sometimes Mcshay does better than Kiper, so I personally dont favor one over the other, because i know how hard their jobs can be. I love it when they’re arguing over prospects on t.v!! If fans should stop ignoring Kiper, than might as well do the same with Mcshay. And plus, do GM’s really listen to these guys? I think its more for the fans than for the organizations. If Green Bay would of listened to Mcshay about what he said when they drafted Brian Brohm in the 1st (after drafting Rodgers the previous year), then they probably would of never won the super bowl because Aaron Rodgers would of been on a different team. Mcshay said Green Bay doesnt see Rodgers as the successor of Favre, but they may see it in Brohm because he had more upside. So there it is, we should just completely ignore Kiper and Mcshay for now on because they’re both idiots.

last sentence=sarcacism

by chang_gang84 on Apr 11, 2011 2:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Kiper's latest mock has us picking Cam

Everyone has Cam going #1 now. It’s going to be either him or a trade down, I’ve just finally come to be able to admit that.

by Scotch on the Prowl on Apr 11, 2011 8:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

It really should

Every year we see some wonder QB out of no where jump to the top of the draft. I really amazing how someone one heard of coming out of college can jump to the top of the draft and have such a highprofile agent.

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 11, 2011 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, if it were, then Gabbert would’ve corrected it, wouldn’t he.

Uh, no. He’s talking about correcting it in the NFL. All college QBs have to do that.

by SlayerGhaleon on Apr 11, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

THIS

needs to be used more often please!

CAN'T WAIT!

by BEVE on Apr 11, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey guess what Ace,

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 11, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

lol

One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.

Follow me on Twitter

by BW Smith on Apr 11, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Corny as hell theres nothing funny about this

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 11, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe not to you, but I thought it was pretty funny.

One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.

Follow me on Twitter

by BW Smith on Apr 11, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry DT but

that picture is hilarious. And I currently as big a supporter of Cammie’s Pajammies as you are.

by Imisshooooooooov on Apr 11, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Guess you missed the point

Which is probably why you didn’t think it was funny…

Not like I was being very subtle about it.

by aceofsween on Apr 11, 2011 3:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Maybe he got the point.

And that’s why he didn’t laugh. LOL.

Disclaimer: BusyBeingAwesome = Irony. And, on a side note. I miss you, Steve Beuerlein.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Apr 12, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I got the point but I didn't laugh because isn't corny as hell.

There is nothing funny about that seriously.

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 12, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

is*

Fixed for ya.

And that must be why my comment is green, right?

Yeah, that must be it…

by aceofsween on Apr 13, 2011 7:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't give a damn what color it is.

Its just not funny and its corny as hell. The people who rec it maybe as well since they find it so amusing.

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 13, 2011 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just rec'd it.

And as far as me being corny? Well that’s up for debate. It’s very possible, lol. And why did I rec it? Because it’s true.

Disclaimer: BusyBeingAwesome = Irony. And, on a side note. I miss you, Steve Beuerlein.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Apr 13, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

The more he talks the truer the statement becomes

Now that’s probably corny too…

(And in everyone else’s definition: funny)

by aceofsween on Apr 13, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not true so it doesn't matter anyways.

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 13, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh okay then

In that case I’d advise you to stop using the internet, because it’s clearly having an effect on your cognitive abilities.

My mistake.

by aceofsween on Apr 13, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

What have Hurney done for us lately?

For real? I mean all you can think about is Clausen, Brown, and Armanti? These three players have a combine of 4 years of experience in the league. Although i may not agree with some decisions from Hurney, i must admitt that he’s drafted some very good players, especially in the 1st rounds. There are more great picks than they are bad picks. You cant expect to hit on all the picks? Thats why the draft is so exciting, because you have the Tom Brady’s and the Jamarcus Russell’s. If you think being a Panthers fan is tough, than just go talk to Oakland fans. They have more busts picks as of lately than any team.

by chang_gang84 on Apr 11, 2011 1:09 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

April 28 can't get here soon enough

I desperately need that 15 mins of my life back

by Blahbla on Apr 11, 2011 1:25 AM EDT reply actions  

The Newton vs Gabbert race is getting tighter

At least for me. I’ve been very pro Gabbert… He’s the most well-rounded QB in this draft. He can do everything from athleticism to making all the throws. But he’s still not a super high-ceiling prospect for most. And that sort of makes me feel like I’m settling for mediocrity.

Cam is definitely a big risk, but at least he has many supporters pro and amateur that sware he has a huge ceiling, and by far the highest in this draft.

So what do we do? Take the safe pick or follow the old adage “No risk no reward”? I’m not there yet, but starting to move towards taking Cam with a wing and a prayer.

stay thirsty my friends

by southtunnel on Apr 11, 2011 9:56 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm there with you

I’ve flopped on this more than a fish out of water. Initially I wanted Gabbert, but I’ve rotated to Newton at this point. I really like what I’ve heard about Gabbert and his football acumen. I don’t like his tendency to break contain outside the pocket. His deep ball seems inaccurate but that’s hard to say for sure without actually attending practice and hearing where the coaches are telling him to put the ball. In any case the anticipation for both prospects is not great.

Just when I start to get excited about Cam someone whose opinion I really respect says something like this:

“At this point Newton a big man with a power arm, and limited QB skills. Accuracy a major concern. Poor mechanics. No sense of anticipation.

“More Newton: A steep learning curve (like Gabbert) re: NFL pass game. Must be taught pocket skills. How he’s initially used critical.‘’
—@gregcosell, NFL Films video-dissector and "NFL Matchup’’ producer, after watching Auburn video of quarterback Cam Newton.

Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

by Vagus on Apr 11, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

The learning curve doesn't scare me

Every player has a learning curve… when they’re a kid, when they go to college, and when they make the pros. Just because a player hasn’t played in a pro-style offense, doesn’t mean they can’t. Every player at some point had not played in a pro-style offense or made certain throws.

It really boils down to who has the confidence, mental capacity, and is willing to put the effort in to be great.

stay thirsty my friends

by southtunnel on Apr 11, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

If Cam can learn these things, just like everyone else has had to, then he also has something you can’t learn… freakish athletic ability.

stay thirsty my friends

by southtunnel on Apr 11, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. He's really a boom prospect

Someone that could change the game.

Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

by Vagus on Apr 11, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Plus

We know that we have a group of “teachers” as our coaches. When would be a better time to roll the dice?

by Imisshooooooooov on Apr 11, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know it's not something to realistically expect...

But I wish ESPN or NFL would put Gabbert, Newton, Mallet, Locker, Ponder, Dalton, Stanzi, and Kaepernick through the exact same tests individually, and have a series of specials so that you could see a side-by-side comparison of their strengths and weaknesses in relation to each other.

- Whiteboard test – Diagram and explain the same plays.
- Have the QBs view and explain what they see in the same clips of game film of actual NFL games.
- Have the QBs view and explain film of their own games – honestly analyze strengths and weaknesses.
- Sports Science-like tests testing the same aspects for each QB – throwing mechanics, release, velocity of throws, accuracy on various routes, footwork on dropbacks, aerobic capacity, rate at which they can accelerate and maximum speed on runs, etc. (the latter of which, I can’t help but say, Newton is astounding based on his Sports Science analysis)
- Try to simulate actual game situations with a semblence of speed as much as possible without killing the QBs – basically hardcore flag football where a rushing defender grabbing a flag equals a sack. It’s not a secret that I like Ponder…and I’d be very interested in seeing him particularly in a test like this. From what I have seen, it seems like he has this internal clock and natural instinct to feel rushers closing in on him and how to best respond (holding on in the pocket and stepping up, rolling out, scrambling for yardage, etc.)
- Have former NFL QBs evaluate the QBs – former pros who aren’t employed by ESPN or NFL Network, or mentoring the QB they’re analyzing, or tied to the agent of the specific QB they’re analyzing.

I know it’s not something to expect, but honestly, would that not help everyone (mainly fans) get a better feel for the entire skillsets of the QBs coming up in the draft? I think a special series like that would be absolutely fascinating – particularly in a draft class where there are legitimate concerns with each and every QB. Right now, everyone’s comparing apples to oranges to grapes to bananas to whatever other fruit you choose. Like I said, they all have some clear weaknesses. But I do think there are biases that aren’t always justfied. Example, a bias based on the style of offense a QB ran. A college QB doesn’t control what offense a coach ran – running a pro offense versus a spread offense doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to translate to success or struggle in the pros. Running a simple one-read spread to a multiple-read spread doesn’t mean the latter QB is automatically going to be better than that former, and it doesn’t mean the latter QB has to be “smarter” than the former. There’s sometimes a bias based on past injuries. Yeah, it’s something to take into account, but when a player shows that he can play through or quickly bounce back, shouldn’t that count for something? A QB isn’t going to be kept in perfect health in the pros – ask Stafford, Palmer, Favre, or even our (former) own Delhomme.

Anyway, as to Gabbert, I truly don’t think he should be the consensus highest-rated QB. I don’t think any one of them should be the consensus Are there reasons as to why some might think Gabbert should be the highest-rated? Sure. But I think there are legitimate reasons why other QBs could be considered stronger. Again, it’s apples and oranges trying to compare all of these guys, and I do think that there just may be a case of analysts acting like sheep following each other. Sports journalists do it all the time…why limit the trend to that one sector of the sports media? I don’t mean this as a diss to Gabbert. I like some things about him. But I like and dislike things about all of the other “top tier” and “second tier” QBs as well.

by jamiedk on Apr 11, 2011 11:48 AM EDT reply actions  

I think when teams like the Panthers bring in a QB prospect that they do something similar to this.

There is just no way any agent will tell his client to show up for a QB roundup by ESPN to point out their strengths and their weaknesses. This is why I haven’t really said who I think the top QB pick should be. We the fans don’t have the access that team front offices have to rate the prospects on the skills and qualities that are important to them. Also, each team has their own criteria as to what the skills and qualities they value are.
I’m sure glad these discussions will be over soon. Seems to me that the draft brings some pretty harsh posts amongst the people who all share the desire for the Panthers to be great.

by GooseCreek on Apr 11, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I haven't heard any consensus

AJ Green is the consensus top WR, PP the top DB… But QB? Seems like there’s as much debate here than any other position.

stay thirsty my friends

by southtunnel on Apr 11, 2011 11:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Seems like a consensus to me.

I can’t think of one media draftnik (former NFL scout, GM, or self-made evaluator) who rates Newton ahead of Gabbert. McShay, Kiper, Scouts Inc., Matt Williamson, Casserly, Mayock, Nawrocki and many others all believe Gabbert is the better prospect. And to hear Greg Cosell’s evaluation of Newton is an exclamation point.

Just curious, who are those who believe Newton is the best prospect?

by bosotomos on Apr 11, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well for one, only the team picking 1st overall

At least it as it appears the Panthers do. Also, Charles Davis and much of the NFLN staff. Many local analysts, Warren Moon, Jon Beason. Get my drift?

If you’re suggesting Gabbert is on the top of more boards than we agree. I didn’t say he wasn’t. I’d just said it’s NOT as clear as other positions. And to prove the uncertainty, here’s what Kiper (who you mention) thinks about the Panthers picking Newton…

There are immediate needs, and there is a decision that you believe will change the direction of your franchise for years to come … if they really see Newton as the transformative player that can be both a Pro Bowl quarterback and face of the franchise who draws a lot of buzz, they can make this pick. If talent alone was all they were concerned with, Newton would be an easy choice. But this pick also requires a belief in his development and maturity. Certainly, however, Newton’s potential is significant

stay thirsty my friends

by southtunnel on Apr 11, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Still don't see one draft expert in Newton's corner.

Charles Davis is a media personality with access to many teams. But he has never, to my knowledge, put up a ‘big board’ of any kind. He has put together his mock. That is all. And Kiper is one of the few who has Newton and Gabbert so tightly bunched. But still, Gabbert is his top rated QB prospect.

by bosotomos on Apr 11, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Panthers don't have "experts" in their organization?

Who are they relying on? Beavis and Butthead?

stay thirsty my friends

by southtunnel on Apr 11, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Have the Panthers said that Newton will be their pick?

If they do, you might be right… Beavis and Butthead will obviously have stolen Hurney’s mind. Anyway, it’s not over ’til the fat lady with the fake smile sings.

by bosotomos on Apr 11, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

das racist

do you eat at the combination pizza hut and taco bell?

stay thirsty my friends

by southtunnel on Apr 11, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Andrew Luck was consensus

If he was in this there would be no debate who to take. But I just don’t see how you could say that Gabbert vs Newton hasn’t been often debated.

stay thirsty my friends

by southtunnel on Apr 11, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

It has been debated ad nauseum.

The issue, again, is the Rotten Tomatoes of NFL evaluation. Most or all media experts like him more. There is a consensus.

by bosotomos on Apr 11, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Admittedly, I've been busy with other things recently and haven't lived up to my normal fanaticism...

But whenever I have caught analysts’ ratings of players – not mock drafts, but ratings – I haven’t seen any that have any QB rated higher than Gabbert. But I may be mistaken – like I said, I’ve been busy and haven’t been keeping up with everything like I normally would. I haven’t seen SportsCenter in about a week. That’s saying something. LOL.

by jamiedk on Apr 11, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're not mistaken. Gabbert is the concensus top rated QB in the draft.

There is a major difference between draft boards and player ratings. People are putting Newton on the top of their draft boards because they believe that is who the team will draft. That doesn’t mean it is who they would draft.

Basically, everyone is buying into the idea that the Panthers are going to draft Newton, and therefore people are putting Newton at the top of their draft boards. Personally, I still think it’s smoke screen, but it’s hard for me to articulate why.

Basically, everyone is saying two things that are completely contradictory. First of all, everyone is saying that what they “hear” is that the Panthers are going to take Newton. Then, everyone is also saying that beyond the “8 people in mind” the Panthers aren’t telling anyone what their plans are. It’s either one or the other, and even our local beat writers are split on that one.

by aceofsween on Apr 11, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know if it’s a smoke screen or not, but I don’t believe Newton will be a Panther either.

I’ll try to articulate why.

1. The issue of consensus from media draftniks. One would think that the toolkit that media evaluators use for their rankings is similar to what the Panthers use. If so, how could the Panthers see the same QBs so differently?
2. Richardson still owns the franchise. I don’t believe he has changed his feelings on questionable character one bit. Hurney would be out on an island if Newton had some issue crop up.
3. Hurney loves to wheel and deal at the draft… particularly these past few years. And with the #1 pick, selling misinformation and confusion is one of the few ways to leverage that position.
4. Hurney picked Clausen, and was extremely happy about it too. And one year is just too short an evaluation period for any QB.
5. The labor situation makes planning for a potentially shortened 2011 season very difficult, particularly when a new offense needs to be installed. Few of the vets have even seen this system, let alone have any experience in it. Taking any QB won’t likely yield any positive results in 2011.
6. Rivera’s remark about Clausen ("we’ll see where he fits in") is so damning that it’s hard to believe that it is honestly how he feels. Rivera knows he’ll need Clausen next year even if the labor situation was resolved tomorrow.
7. But if Rivera is being totally honest about how he feels about Clausen, and is the one pushing for a QB in this draft, what kind of QB is he comfortable with? One would assume that Philip Rivers is the model. Newton ain’t Rivers. Gabbert and Mallet seem a much closer match to the Rivers mold.
8. And lastly, there’s the Mallet question. Why in the world is he getting equal evaluation time with Newton and Gabbert? I just wonder if there has already been a team with a QB need who has stepped up with an offer for our #1.

by bosotomos on Apr 11, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think your last question is the one that hasn't been discussed to death on here...

and it’s a very intriguing one at that; Mallet has been lost in the shuffle of the “Blaine v. Newton debate”, but he’s been getting just as much attention from us as the other two. I didn’t think that we were going to “smokescreen” much when the whole process started, but the amount of work that’s being put into Mallet (along with the general sentiments of the other GM’s who know Hurney) is starting to convince me that this draft will not be as simple as us picking someone at #1…

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Apr 11, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

My thinking was more about the aggregate than the 8 reasons individually.

I was aware that many reasons on that list had been discussed here and elsewhere. And it’s easy enough to poke holes or rationalize any one of the 8. But let’s just say that there is a preponderance of circumstantial evidence that weighs against Newton as the selection.

by bosotomos on Apr 11, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

nah I get ya...

just cause they’ve been discussed doesn’t mean they’re not valid lol; I agree that there is a good deal weighing against both prospects (although seemingly less so against Gabbert), which is why I’m not terribly enthused about spending a #1 on either QB…

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Apr 11, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Gabbert is as clearly the top QB prospect for scouts

As AJ Green and Patrick Peterson are in their positions. Then why are all indications that we are taking Cam Newton? And why has it also be mentioned multiple times that Cam is the most likely player that teams would trade up for?

stay thirsty my friends

by southtunnel on Apr 11, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hype

When Auburn went on their run that culminated in the BCS title game, coupled with the allegations of his fathers pay-for-play scandal (which has largely been swept under the rug), created a media firestorm.

When it comes down to it, without Newton there would less to talk about because there is simply not much to talk about with Gabbert.

And if you find a scouting report that rates Newton higher than Gabbert, please share them.

by aceofsween on Apr 11, 2011 4:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

In this discussion you guys have picked out of the debate, national media, local analysts, players, fans and even the teams

And now all that’s left is online scouting reports? So you got me. There’s a clear consensus. Gabbert is without any doubt the clear-cut #1.

stay thirsty my friends

by southtunnel on Apr 11, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well think about it...

Local analysts are reporting what they are hearing from the team sources. That’s not a break down or analysis of the players, it’s just the pulse of the organization.

National media outlets are trying to predict the outcome of the draft. There have been numerous times where they have said, “This is not the pick I think they should make, but the pick I think they will make,” which again leads to a little bit of the organization pulse, but in some combination of the needs of an organization and some team sources.

Players right now can’t even talk to their front offices, so they have no more idea of what’s going on than we do, but are certainly entitled to their own personal opinions (i.e. Beason’s).

And fans rarely know what they’re talking about. I like to think that we at CSR have a bit more informed opinion than others, but we certainly don’t have the resources available to us that scouts and teams do with which we can break down each player in such great detail.

That really only leaves the teams and the scouts reports, doesn’t it? And as I’ve said before, the Panther’s aren’t telling anyone who they want to pick.

by aceofsween on Apr 11, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they're not telling anyone, then who are the "team sources" you mention?

Office janitors? And local analysts, especially WFNZ, the only sports talk radio in Charlotte where many ex-Panthers host shows, say whatever they can to fill time… opinion and from sources.

But whatever… This is sort of a dumb thing to debate. If it’s a clear consensus then that’s fine. I don’t mind being wrong about it.

stay thirsty my friends

by southtunnel on Apr 11, 2011 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

You'd have to ask them

I certainly won’t claim to know who Person/Gantt/Read talk to when they mention what they’re hearing around the organization. In the end, they sift through the various comments from the people they talk to in order to get a feel for the team’s thoughts. That’s what I mean when I say pulse.

But like I tried to explain, just because you are the consensus better prospect doesn’t mean you will be drafted before someone else. Case in point: Jonathon Stewart was the 2nd RB taken in 2008, but he was considered the anywhere from 3rd to 5th best RB in the draft, behind Darren McFadden and Rashard Mendenhall by every single major scouting report in the industry.

by aceofsween on Apr 11, 2011 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well the consensus top QB may not be clear but I knwo one thing that is..

All signs point to us taking Newton with the first pick so do me a favor:

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 12, 2011 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree wholeheartedly

But how can you call Sween’s post corny when it was hilarious and then put up that cornball of a joke?

by Imisshooooooooov on Apr 13, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Corn ball of a joke?

wow you might need to catch up

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 13, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't have a problem with that

The consensus can think whatever they want. Doesn’t mean I have to agree with it. You can have fun with your laptop-stealing, twice cheating (or was it thrice?), one year wonder prospect if that’s your prerogative. I personally want nothing to do with him.

by aceofsween on Apr 13, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well I guess you are satified settling for mediocre

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 13, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd explain how it doesn't have to be both ways

But you’re not the sharpest tool in the shed, so that’d just be a waste of time.

Nice to see you can’t argue my points though. So even if this was a waste of time, at least it was a good one.

by aceofsween on Apr 13, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

PLEASE

Panthers tell us who your going to pick! I can’t take this s**t for 17 more days!!

CAN'T WAIT!

by BEVE on Apr 11, 2011 1:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Not really about Gabbert, but about Casserly...

I have to say that I’m super-impressed by his recognition that we actually do have some weapons on offense. I literally cannot recall any other talking head this offseason saying anything good about our offense (except there may have been 1 or 2 mentions of Steve Smith). But Casserly gave props to not only Steve Smith, but said that the team’s high on the young WRs, that we have good RBs, that Shockey should help out the TE situation, and that part of the O-line is strong (I think that’s lind of debatable…but whatever).

I’ve seen a few say that our D was pretty decent other than the DT position, but I was flabbergasted to hear anyone say that we actually have potential on offense with a decent QB. It made me happy. =)

by jamiedk on Apr 11, 2011 1:50 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, Jamie, he's in a minority for sure.

Most of the time it’s like nobody outside the Carolinas even has a clue the the Panthers were 12-4 only 2 seasons ago. The average talking head only has 4-5 teams in their portfolio to be experts on: Patriots, Cowboys, Redskins, Eagles, Jets, and Pittsburgh. All other teams will have to make themselves worthy of national attention before they even get mentioned.

I think NFL shows should have a panel of experts that follow a certain division. Kinda like ESPN has with Pat Y and the other writers with the NFL Blogs. Then I think we would see more intelligent conversations in regards to small-medium sized market teams.

Ron Rivera, the Most Interesting Coach in the World. Stay thirsty my friends!

by Tarheel Soldier on Apr 11, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re:
About Gabbert himself, "Athletic ability, I think, is excellent. The guy can move out of the pocket, he can throw on the run, he can make those kinds of plays. His arm is good enough to make all the throws. The Iowa game stands out to me. He made a number of terrific downfield throws in that game. Also, the guy can read a defense.

Emphasis mine.

Did Casserly even bother to watch the end of this game?

by SuperHorn on Apr 11, 2011 4:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Looks like Gabbert thought his TE would release and come back for the ball.

Either that or it’s a piss poor decision. Whichever side of the fence you’re on will likely determine which you believe.

"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox

"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)

by Flowing Willow on Apr 11, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

It almost looks tipped...

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Apr 11, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a duck of a throw to be sure.

Looks sort of like the TE was supposed to release up the field and he was trying to drop it in his arms in stride.

"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox

"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)

by Flowing Willow on Apr 11, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's what it looks like...

the little lob over the shorter defender; it’s hard to tell on a youtube video, but it looks like it leaves his hand, pursuing end get a finger or two on it, and it knuckleballs into the defender’s arms.

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Apr 11, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

The end doesn't touch it.

Better view here. Even if we grant that the TE should have released back to the football, it’s still a horrible decision, as the defender would be in a position to make a play on the ball anyways, and, if completed, there’s no way the TE even sniffs the first down marker.

If you want to point to the rest of the game tape, that’s fine, I guess. It wasn’t especially impressive, but that argument is somewhat tolerable. There’s no defending this decision though. It was a bone headed play. This doesn’t define him as a QB necessarily, I just found it interesting that Casserly could make that statement when Gabbert made a play that cost his team the game.

by SuperHorn on Apr 11, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

that link was infinitely easier to see...

and yea, that was a boneheaded play, but I think Casserly was referring to the game as a whole…

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Apr 11, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I suppose.

I just don’t see how Casserly can make that statement with a straight face. Even if the rest of the game is perfect, it seems that he’s missing the forest for the trees. He’s so hung up on specific plays that he’s missing the fact that one of his few mistakes was easily the biggest blunder of the game, and the one that cost his team a bowl game victory.

Big time QB’s come up in pressure situations, and, again, while this isn’t damning, it doesn’t exactly instill a lot of confidence in the kid. You’d expect more from the #1 overall QB in the last game of his college football career.

by SuperHorn on Apr 11, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Every player makes a bad play though...

it happens; besides, maybe mizzou’s defense could’ve done something other than stare at Iowa’s RB all day (who posted up a 200 yard rushing game on a healthy 6 ypc average). If he was hung up on specific plays, he’d let that one play determine his overall evaluation of the game….

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Apr 11, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Besides, next drive he came back and was leading them back down the field...

Unfortunately for Mizzou, they had a crucial 4th down pass get called incomplete on review in Iowa territory (I couldn’t tell whether it was right or wrong from the highlights, but the guy who caught/dropped the ball had 15 receptions on the day lol)…

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Apr 11, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Without knowing anything about you:
Whichever side of the fence you’re on will likely determine which you believe.

I’ve got a pretty good guess which side you’re on.

That’s fine and all. You may very well be right about this kid. I just think this conversation is a microcosm of the difference between Gabbert supporters vs. detractors. Supporters will point to a couple of beautiful throws on film. Break it down on a throw by throw basis, and find a way to boil it down to such small details that one is no longer considering the context of the situations.

Detractors will look at the two big plays that cost points. One at the end of the half (not all Blaine’s fault), and the other at the end of the game (discussed above). To me, Blaine cost his team this game. Does that mean he’s a surefire bust? Of course not, but I’m leery of drafting a guy high in the draft (in your case #1 overall) when you constantly have to make excuses for his production or shortcomings. There are examples of shitty college QBs that pan out (Favre, Montana, Freeman), but they are few and far between. As a general rule, average QBs in college don’t suddenly become great in the NFL.

by SuperHorn on Apr 11, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

For the record, I'd rather pass on both of them...

but yes, in general I have a slightly better feeling about Gabbert than Newton; admittedly, I didn’t watch much Gabbert this year, and we as a community have access to only a fraction of what most of the analysts and teams have…I’m just going off of what I observed, and that was a good talent, having a good game, and making a self described “greedy” mistake. It didn’t do them in, but it certainly didn’t help their cause, and ultimately they lost as a team (just as they must win as a team).

However, I watched a s—- ton of Newton (and Auburn) this year, and while he was a blast to watch on the college landscape, I don’t even think he’ll be the most successful Tiger to come out of this draft, let alone most successful QB….call it an aversion to prospects that constantly receive the “limitless upside” adjective, since they seem to never quiiiite pan out like they’re supposed to (for a variety of reasons, not just mental breakdown cases). If we were picking #10, even #5 I’d be much cooler with either prospect, but we’ve got other options who are legitimately worthy of a #1 pick….

But I dig the tone; it helps reduce the “Jane, you ignorant slut..,” back and forths that have arisen from the many QB debates held on here lol

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Apr 11, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

and trust me, I totally get the attraction with Cam as a prospect, and why many are not enamored with Gabbert...

Although if he thinks he’s gonna be running over NFL linebackers like he did in some of the games this year, he’s got more back injuries to look forward too….

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Apr 11, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not a Cam supporter.

I’m just someone who doesn’t understand the Gabbert hype. Neither particularly impress me.

If I were a Panther’s fan, I’d be concerned about this false dichotomy that has been created around the fan base regarding Newton or Gabbert. You shouldn’t have to take a side.

by SuperHorn on Apr 11, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we're in agreement, only flipped on the two prospects...

I just see us falling madly in love with two prospects, when there’s at least 3 other ones (IMO 2 realistically) that could be better picks at #1 (although I’d love to trade down more than anything)!

I think it should be reiterated to the base: There will be other QB prospects in the future, but there’s no sense in reaching for a prospect if there is considerable doubt that they will become #1 worthy (Gabbert and Newton could very easily become little more than average QB’s in the NFL). That said, I’ll keep sporting my Jake jersey, and would much rather eat crow and win games, than be right and be stuck with a crappy pick lol

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Apr 11, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

You'd be right.

I am a supporter of Gabbert, and I think he should be the pick. But at the same time I can look at his performance objectively and say that was a terrible throw. However that doesn’t preclude me from going over his thought process there, why he decided to throw the ball. That’s not an NFL throw, and if he does that in the league, he’ll be done. However it hardly cost his team the game. There were five minutes left, still plenty of time to drive down the field and either get the tying field goal or the winning TD. And from the other play on 4th down i saw, he very well could have pulled it off.

"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox

"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)

by Flowing Willow on Apr 11, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re:
However it hardly cost his team the game. There were five minutes left, still plenty of time to drive down the field and either get the tying field goal or the winning TD.

Actually, as it turns out, it did cost them the game. The interception explicitly resulted in points that gave Iowa the lead, and, thus, the win.

Even if Gabbert’s throw turns out “successful”, it still results in a 3 and out. There’s no excusing it. I cannot see his thought process there. It boggles my mind. With the exception of the additional 30 seconds burned off the clock, the completion is identical to his team as a throw away. It wasn’t gutsy. There was no bravado. He wasn’t trying to will his team to a victory. It was just a moronic throw.

Now, again, this doesn’t necessarily damn him heading into the draft. I’m just pointing out that of all his games, this is hardly the one I’d point to (as Casserly did) as the one that stood out to me. At least, not in a positive sense.

by SuperHorn on Apr 11, 2011 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stop making excuses if its a duck then its a duck

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 12, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

A question on the sig...

When you refer to Cammy Cam Juice, where does such a juice come from?

Disclaimer: BusyBeingAwesome = Irony. And, on a side note. I miss you, Steve Beuerlein.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Apr 13, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Eww.

"Man coverage? I'm eatin' his ass up! Nom nom! Pac Man, baby!"
~#89

by ERL on Apr 13, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gay as hell

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 13, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not promoting Newton

I’m just saying Gabbert isn’t as good as everyone thinks he is.

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 13, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whether you realize it or not DT, you are promoting Newton

You’re tearing down Gabbert and attacking people who like him, and whether you realize it or not you’re promoting Newton in the process.

One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.

Follow me on Twitter

by BW Smith on Apr 13, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here we go with this "attacking" shit again

Some people are so weak and helpless its not even funny but whatever. I guess I’ll have to be the next Miketrain on this blog

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 13, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just because people don't like hearing you attack them...

doesn’t make them weak and helpless.

One cries because one is sad. For example: I cry because others are stupid, and it makes me sad.

Follow me on Twitter

by BW Smith on Apr 13, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

For what it's worth

That’s why I retaliated. Don’t snap at people if you’re afraid to get bitten.

by aceofsween on Apr 13, 2011 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh I'll I'm not afraid to get bitten

I’m just ready for anything.

SOOOOO Me, Cam, Ron, Jerry and Hurney are going to drink some Cammy Cam Juice.. who's coming?

by DT3428 on Apr 13, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

No more plz.

"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Apr 11, 2011 7:08 PM EDT reply actions  

2 things

2 points….
1. Gabbert looks good on film.
2. Athleticism is very much a desired quality for a number of obvious reasons. Just look at Cam Newton’s highlight reel from 2010. It’s also worthy of your time to revisit the first Panthers vs. Bucs game last year. Watch how many times Freeman escaped pressure and scurried for a 1st down. Athleticism adds a whole new element to the game.

by Jon Zimmerman on Apr 11, 2011 7:15 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Athleticism changes how teams defend you

How much do you want to blitz a guy that if you miss, can quickly scurry into your secondary or beat you outside for a 1st down?

stay thirsty my friends

by southtunnel on Apr 11, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Amen

If we were drafting a QB based on athleticism, Newton would be the better choice. If we are drafting a QB based on athleticism and accuracy, Gabbert is the better choice at this point. That’s not to say that Newton might also be coached into staying in the pocket for 4 seconds before taking off…. and then still look downfield. Newton will require more coaching but has greater upside potential.

I have conditioned myself to be happy no matter which QB we choose, as both have apparent upside. It’s simply a matter of which one will spend more time in the film room. Desire.

by Jon Zimmerman on Apr 11, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gabbert hype train

I completely believe they are getting the push. Especially after the beat reporter for the Arizona Cardinals flat out told them that they didn’t think Gabbert was the right pick for the Cardinals….Mayock and crew practically burned a hole in the TV with his disapproving stare….reiterating….“they will sprint to the podium with their card if Gabbert is there”. No way the cards pick Gabbert….they have a video called “All in” just posted on the AZ Cards website showing them interviewing Gabbert. Now, how stupid would it be for AZ to tell everyone they want this guy by having him in the video…I think it is clear, they’re not interested and want to let the AZ public know they did their due diligence.

by theuglytruth on Apr 12, 2011 2:50 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't understand.

You don’t think the Cardinals will draft Gabbert if he is available?

"Man coverage? I'm eatin' his ass up! Nom nom! Pac Man, baby!"
~#89

by ERL on Apr 12, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shutting this one down

The only people left commenting are 2-3 fighting with each other… I think this topic has played out and everyone has had their say.

by James Dator on Apr 14, 2011 7:32 AM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Listen to Cat Scratch Radio Tuesdays 10pm EST

Media Requests email: CatScratchReader89@yahoo.com

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

The-dude_small
CSR OT Open Thread, Vol. 14
335894_10150380137586555_563421554_9035931_1799653683_o_small
CSR, I LOVE THIS SITE!
189863_1835554819100_1547357212_1925822_7711741_a_small
A PantherTrain confession.
Panthers_small
First Look: Camp Battles in the Making
The-dude_small
CSR OT Open Thread, Vol. 13

Recent FanPosts

Small
Carolina Panthers 2012 Position Preview: CSR Managers, Editors and Authors
Steve_smith_small
The Schedule's Out, Now Which Game Are You Most Excited For?
Small
A Few Random Thoughts.
189863_1835554819100_1547357212_1925822_7711741_a_small
Evidence Ron Rivera doesn't care for Brandon Lafell?
Dsc00040_small
Cam Newton All For 2012 Video Trailer
Supercam_small
Playing Devil's Advocate
Img_0204-4_small
Panther's Bizarro 2012 Season

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Catscratchreader_m_small Jaxon

091311101554_small James Dator

Editors

N1523447507_30151367_6579_small Cyberjag

Img_0764_small LittleKing

The-dude_small BW Smith

Yoda-smoking-weed_small Rick Bates

Authors

Unnamed_small Revshawn

Img_8872v1_small ERL

Desmond_pics467_small Derek Leazer

Nibbs__small Son of a Newton

000_0006_small bylinebrown

Dsc_0082_small TLong

Chris_harris_jon_beason_new_orleans_saints_gsq4g8vnnjjl_small Cam2SmittyAllDay

Img_0050_small BrandonBecker