Mooch takes Gabbert and Ponder to QB School
Not sure if people saw this yesterday but I enjoyed watching both Gabbert and Ponder respond really well to Steve's questions and instruction.
Here's another video that focuses on footwork.
The more I learn about Gabbert the more I like him. I feel the same way about Ponder.
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Gabbert - No Way
All this talk about Gabbert. After looking at YouTube highlights and Pro Day video, I say No Way. The Mannings and Bradys never miss an open receiver and even when they are covered, they put the ball where only the receiver can get it. Looking at Gabbert’s videos, he missed open receivers and even the ones he completed were either slightly behind or in front of the receivers. I don’t know about his abilities to read defenses, etc but I don’t think he has the accuracy needed to be “the” QB.
Never miss an open receiver?? Come on...
I’m not saying that Manning is a bad QB – Colts are my 2nd favorite team and I love Manning. But check out this video (audio is a bit annoying) and you can see that Manning is human.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QbtNYC0-FM
Either way… not the point. I’m not saying we HAVE TO TAKE GABBERTTTTT RAAAAHHHHHH OR HURNEY SHOULD FIREDDDDED HISSSELF
But the guy seems intelligent, well spoken. Seems extremely coachable. I don’t understand what’s not to like. I wasn’t impressed initially with Gabbert but after doing more research I think the potential is clearly there.
by Fernando De La Cruz on Mar 30, 2011 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
"I don’t understand what's not to like."
He doesn’t have gaudy stats.
UNLEASH THE KRAKEN!!!!
by RjTheMetalhead on Mar 30, 2011 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I hold Mariucci's opinion of quarterbacks in high regard.
After all, he’s the guy who built Brett Favre and Steve Young into NFL QBs.
Ponder may not be as athletically gifted, but someone in the late 1st or early 2nd round is going to get a steal.
by James Dator on Mar 30, 2011 8:11 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I've been saying all along Ponder is the most polish qb.
James, you may be surprised but Ponders athleticsism is underrated. Ponder ran a 4.65 40, Gabbert a 4.62, both are slightly under Cams 4.59. Cam is just more elusive and accelerates quicker. On top of that Ponder i believe had a 35 wonderlic, and Gabbert a 31. Both qbs are on the top of the class when it comes to intellegence. The video proves that they can read the defense. I agree with you, Ponder will be a steal. I’ve been saying on other older posts that Ponder was a sleeper way before his draft status started climbing boards.
by chang_gang84 on Mar 30, 2011 2:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with you on Ponder
I watched Ponder quite a lot and got to see him burn the Tarheels D one Thursday night. He is quite athletic and is also very intelligent. I believe I remember hearing that he finished his undergrad early and was working on his masters at Florida State. Had a high 3 something during his undergrad years. His arm strength is on par with Gabberts and he has run more a pro style offense during his college years. I really can not see the difference between him and Gabbert in terms of potential and how they project for the NFL. It is because of those similarities that I do not want to take BG with the first pick. In a perfect world, I would love to see the Panthers trade down and select either PP7, Darieus, Fairley, Green with their first round pick and somehow pick up Ponder in the second round. If Ponder is gone, go some other route and pick up another DT. In sum, I am really not sold on taking any of the QB’s with our first pick. That is how I feel about things though. From all the things that I have been reading and hearing, I fully expect the Panthers to go QB with the #1 pick.
by passthedamnchipsdavidson on Mar 30, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd because...
I do think that Ponder is underrated and will be drafted lower than I think his talent warrants.
I see good and bad things in literally every QB who’s been in most discussions, but I feel easier about Ponder, and I think that I’d rather have him than any other QB in the draft (again, I see good and bad in all of them – I’m not closed off to most, but I’m also not sold on most). Ponder has bounced back from his injuries quite well, and he seems very sound in about every aspect you’d want a QB to be sound in. Limited viewing on my part, but it seems like he has a really good internal clock/instinct about feeling pressure closing in from behind him. He’s pretty athletic and can extend plays, and I’m totally with Mooch that Ponder has very good ball-handling skills – I have been fooled on almost every fake I’ve seen him make.
I agree James
I think Mariucci wrapped it up the best at the end, “Smart guys and hard workers, the sky is the limit.”
Gabbert is miles above Newton in development. I’m still trying to understand the favoritism some have for Newton. However all that said, like I said before, the best QB in this draft, is Christian Ponder
Ponder and Gabbert share an opponent.
Oklahoma.
Ponder 11/28 113 yards 4.0 YPA 0 TD’s 2 INTs 58 QB rating
Link.
Gabbert 30/42 308 yards 7.3 YPA 1 TD 0 INTS 140 QB rating
Link.
UNLEASH THE KRAKEN!!!!
by RjTheMetalhead on Mar 30, 2011 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
FSU was bad at the beginning and Ponder was still dealing with injury problems
interesting how Mizzou’s stud TE had 7 catches for 8 YARDS… wth hahaha
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Right now, I agree with you 100%.
I just get the feeling Ponder has squeezed absolutely everything out of his athletic ability. His form is absolutely flawless, and I think he can be a top 10 QB for years to come I’m just not sure he’ll ever get into that top 5 area because everything about him is just a shade off. He doesn’t quite have the arm you want in a franchise QB, isn’t quite as agile as you want in a franchise QB.
That being said, there’s a lot to like and if anyone is dumb enough to take Jake Locker over him at the top of that second tier of QBs it will be laughable.
by James Dator on Mar 30, 2011 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Vikes took him at 12. Better yet, don’t count the ’Fins out. They could trade up in front of the Vikes to select him.
He should be the 3rd QB off the board. Locker to Seattle looks viable and Mallett will probably slip into the 3rd round due to character issues. But Ponder is a mid first rounder imo.
by blueridgecat on Mar 30, 2011 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I seriously doubt Mallett will fall that far
He just has too much talent to make it past the 2nd round. If he can get on a team that has a good mentoring philosophy, Mallett could easily become the steal of this draft.
Ron Rivera, the Most Interesting Coach in the World. Stay thirsty my friends!
by Tarheel Soldier on Mar 31, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't necessarily agree with the Newton mania, but it's very understandable...
He had an outstanding year accomplishment wise, and has extremely desirable physical traits to boot…whether any of it will translate is dependent on who you ask lol
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
by Tomthehomer on Mar 30, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm just in awe of the opportunity these guys had
to sit and learn with football minds like this. I’m admittedly jealous a bit. What an opportunity and these guys will have that on an almost day-to-day basis for years.
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques
They both were impressive
I like the competitive ribbing which speaks to a competitive nature for both. Ponder didn’t get the opportunity to break down things like Gabbert did. I’d like to have seen that too. Gabbert was very impressive in his play breakdown and understanding of the play and coverage. That’s a good sign from a young QB. He knew what everyone on the team’s job was.
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques
True, but one doesn't know whether this segment was rehearsed or scripted.
Was this play selected, blind, to Gabbert, or did he himself select it. for example. Either way, I would expect him to be able to describe one of his own plays, and recall where each of his receivers were.
Had he done the same for one of PONDER’S plays, off the cuff, and Ponder to one of HIS, then it’d be super-impressive.
Fernando, great post! Rec’d. Very informative video.
I agree completely
However, they did talk about what Ponder did wrong in the combine (that stutter step with his feet). It would have been great to see that as an example in a play.
I wish there was a comparable video for Cam Newton
I really want to see what he’s like on the whiteboard, because there were many reports he was terrible in Indy and one report that said he was fine.
I would be really interested to see where his football IQ slots in.
And that’s the problem isn’t it? At some point, teams are going to hold Newton accountable for what he doesn’t know. It is during draft day that the serious doubts will come into play. Look at Clausen, look at Brady Quin, even look at Aaron Rodgers. Time and time again, the QB with the most questions consistently slips down the draft board, and I’m not even talking about off field questions.
I agree to an extent...
Rodgers was slightly different because all his questions were physical.
Teams slammed him for having happy feet in the pocket, not great arm strength and his receivers having to adjust to his passes.
Newton is doing the whiteboard workouts for teams now, so they have an idea what he can do… I just wish we could see also.
by James Dator on Mar 30, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the question to ask is why aren't they showing us what he can do?
???
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
I don't think there will ever be one because Newton is never asked to do this.
He’s always asked to do one read and go. This was an example where Gabbert was asked to break down coverages and make decisions based off what the defense was showing him.
Newton is simple. 1 read and go. Is my WR covered? Yes? Then run. No? Then throw.
I was very impressed by Gabbert and his football knowledge.
He’s no Andrew Luck and I would have better liked seeing Christian Ponder getting up there and showing off his football knowledge as well so I could compare, but he did a pretty good job describing not only the play he was running (Move one) but also describing the next play in case they came with an all-out blitz. ((thinking a step ahead.))
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
First post
Guys new to the site, so hello. I am a life long football fan that grew watching some really bad, then really good Giant football teams with my dad. I am also a Panther PSL owner from before we even had a team, but I will add I am not anything more then a passionate, through thick or thin, Panther fan, and do not claim to understand football talent. However, the more I watch of Gabbert in specials like this one, the more I realize I like him. If we are taking a QB this is the guy I would want to root for. If I was a player this is the guy I would want to play for, and would go the extra mile for when it is needed. He to me is the guy you can build a franchise around and have players gravitate too. I also believe that although he is not going to save our offense next year, he will be the guy who works the hardest physically and mentally to become great.
Like I said this is just how I feel, but that is good enough for me. I am on his bandwagon.
PS : you guys are great. This is a great collection of knowledgeable, mature Panther fans.
Thanks
Welcome to the cul...I mean, "family"
As the tagline suggests, even Agent89 comes here for his Panther’s news :p
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
Welcome!
I wanted to find a “that’s what she said” in your post to counter your mature Panther fans comment, but nay, I could not find one. None the less, welcome!
Disclaimer: BusyBeingAwesome = Irony. And, on a side note. I miss you, Steve Beuerlein.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Mar 30, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Welcome!
Thanks for commenting. We love to hear from our new readers.
Even if you want to critique the guy as a QB on the field he obviously has a very magnetic personality. I can’t recall a player in recent memory who a variety of players from different teams gravitate towards like Blaine Gabbert. Whether he’s fishing with Christian Ponder and JJ Watt, or working out with A.J Green guys seem to like being around him.
I think he carries himself like a leader, and if there’s one area that we completely lost when Jake did it’s that leadership that both Matt Moore and Jimmy Clausen were lacking. I think a lot can be said for a guy who can get his teammates to run through brick walls for him; it’s a quality that Philip Rivers has, and I think it’s something Gabbert will have at the next level too. He seems to have an appropriate humility that a guy like Steve Smith will respect over a silver spoon in his mouth, self-entitled type guy.
I agree with everything you just said except the Matt Moore snippet. Moore had signs of developing into a leader.
Signs, yes.
Any natural talent, no. He always seemed too forced, not comfortable with the spotlight.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Mar 30, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Haters still hating. Love your consistency.
You ever been in a spotlight, son?
When it comes from FW - he and I have a history.
He takes me to task every time I defend Moore, and I thought he and i agreed to let it go. But now he’s back with a comment I find gratuitous.
I dunno
Might be a little over protective on this one. Didn’t seem too malicious, especially considering Moore’s own admissions to not being able to play loose or carefree.
yeah, I like Moore too bro
…but there was a definite dropoff in leadership when Delhomme left the team. Moore didn’t handle his missteps nearly as well as Delhomme did, and both QBs last season had this kind of passive-agressive pouting going on that doesn’t sit too well with most grown ass men.
He responded to someone else's post...
definitely not gratuitous; also, Moore admitted as much when asked about being thrust into the spotlight….
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
by Tomthehomer on Mar 31, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Go back and look at my posts.
I was a Moore supporter, have nothing against the guy. That’s all I’m going to say on this.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Mar 31, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Took the words right out of my keyboard ... The more I see of him, the more I hope he is our #1 pick.
Reading all of the posts of this guy should be our pick or that guy should be our pick is getting tiresome. We all know the stats along with the tangible and intangible arguments by now. The top two are Newton and Gabbert and either one will be an upgrade for our team at the position. Personally I am starting to like Gabbert more… doesn’t mean I am trashing Newton. If we pick Newton first it will be an upgrade over what we have. To me it just seems Gabbert’s personality fits the franchise and the community.
ABC baby ... any body but Clausen
Ok, I am finally on the bandwagon.
I have flipped and flopped between everyone from Fairley, to Newton to Gabbert and P Peterson and then back again. I was thinking that Cam was worth the risk, but the more I see of Gabbert the more I like him. We can watch tape all day long, and it is very important to an extent, but I am a big believer in the intangibles. I think Gabbert beats Newton on these. Newton; where there’s smoke there’s usually fire. The risks are too big. .
Like you, I value intangibles a lot
There’s not right or wrong way to evaluate QBs. Some like to be shown examples on film, others like to get a sense of their personality.
The thing that we keep seeing in the NFL time and time again it’s that the guys who don’t have the intangibles wind up being the busts. There are numerous draftees like Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Alex Smith, Brady Quinn, JP Losman- all put up the stats and all had ample film to make you think ‘Yes, he’s the guy’ but all failed due to a lack of confidence, work ethic, football IQ or desire for the game.
You can teach someone how and where to throw a football (assuming they have the basic physical abilities needed) but you can’t teach them how to lead, have a good work ethic or have that innate ‘sense’ for the game.
The flip side of this is that we have numerous stories of guys who had all the intangibles but no gaudy film or stats to accompany them. These are the guys like Jim Kelly, Tom Brady, Jake Delhomme, Joe Montana, Tony Romo… the list goes on. Guys who were natural leaders, who had all those other things you look for in a QB but had a lot of physical shortcomings that kept them from being ‘the guy’ when it came to the draft.
The NFL and NFL scouts are now catching up. They’re seeing that intangibles are what separate the busts from the successes. When you heard about Jamarcus Russell being the last one in and the first one out early in his career you could tell it was all over. Who is the guy willing to sit 12 hrs in a film room on an off day and sleep football? That’s the guy I want.
Could a player of lesser fortitude have withstood what Aaron Rodgers went through with Brett Favre season after season after season? No, because Matt Leinart couldn’t.
Could a player without a strong work ethic thrive despite being behind a pro bowl QB like Philip Rivers did? No, because Brady Quinn was more concerned working on his muscles than his abilities as a QB.
This to me is why intangibles are so important. I’m not saying that Blaine Gabbert is the only QB in this draft with those qualities, but I think he has the best chance of fully realizing these qualities.
by James Dator on Mar 30, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tom Brady, Jake Delhomme, Joe Montana, Tony Romo
All of these guys have one thing in common- drafted after the 2nd round. Two were undrafted. So WHY again do we need to draft a QB whom in most drafts would not be considered elite 1st?
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
That's not the point Mike
How many guys drafted in the second or later became franchise QBs? Not enough to justify ignoring the position, that’s for sure
Welcome to the fire Bruce Guild. Hope you enjoy the contentious debates on online yelling! We got that here!
Glad to have ya here.
Proud Member of Cat Scratch Reader
After coming around to Gabbert then being somewhat unsure,
I think I’m back to liking him with the first pick. My mind keeps going back to the Matt Ryan comparison and that’s worked out pretty well for the Dirty Birdz. Newton’s ceiling is higher than Gabberts, but is floor his also much lower. I had this discussion with Aisander from ROF today about one-and-done college basketball players and how you don’t always know what you’re really getting with one as compared to a three-year player. I feel the same way with Cam. In the end, there are just too many question marks with Cam and it will take him more time to develop than Gabbert would who’s more “pro-ready” IMO. But we all know how much that counts for cough Pickles cough.
January 22, 2004 - February 24, 2011
Eww Do not want Gabbert
I will take Newton, Mallet, Ponder, or Stanzi over him
Philip Rivers? Way too early to make that comparison considering they are too opposite players
Rivers is overly cocky (in the rare good way) and had that swagger in college- you KNEW he was going to be a beast in the NFL, he had a certain air about him. I do not see that from Gabbert.
Actually, I do not see Rivers in Gabbert AT ALL… Rivers was a true leader (in a more cocky way than most though), he destroyed ACC record books (does Gabbert own any records at even Mizzou?). He had amazing accuracy (something Gabbert has not consistently shown). He had little Pro players on the offensive side (Crotchery, who he made look AMAZING, and Sean Locklear) yet put up redonkulous statistics. I understand Mizzou did not have crazy talent on that side, but Rivers also did not- so throw that argument out of the window.
Plus, Chase Daniel put up amazing numbers in the same offense, and he is only 6’0, had a 73% completion rate his final year. I’m sorry but if you are good enough to be the #1 pick, you should be able to at least be on the All-Conference team (AT LEAST) in college.
Matt Ryan is another bad comparison, he ran a pro style offense that was not a system spread like Mizzou (if he had been in a spread… good God his numbers would have been ridiculous) and played at a school with worse talent than Mizzou has (I would say Mizzou recruits better than BC by far). Instead of regressing, Ryan got better statswise, the Tigers decided to rely on the run for TDs than what most teams would do with a player who is a potential #1 pick- put the game on the QBs shoulders
Blaine Gabbert could eventually be a solid NFL QB, but with the #1 pick you HAVE to get it right… Why not go the safest route for an area still with need? If we really want another QB we can pick one up later on, but to me Gabbert is only a possible #1 b/c there is no true elite QB in this class. Why force it?
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Sigh... Mike misses the point.
James never said that Gabbert was like Philip Rivers play wise. He said that like Rivers, Gabbert carries himself like a leader.
Yes, but I just wanted to address any comparisons to those QBs that could occur
I can read, definitely did not miss the point.
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Why not go the safest route for an area still with need?
Because you have to find a way to make your team better.
- Jake Long was the ‘safest route’ in 2007 didn’t mean the Dolphins won any more games. They were a sub .500 team for two of the three seasons before Long was drafted, and sub .500 for two of the three seasons since he was drafted.
- To take a look at a corner, since I think you’ll argue that Peterson would make a difference where Long couldn’t.
- The Raiders were 33-15 in the three years before Asomugha was drafted, 11-37 in the three years following
- The NY Jets were 24-24 in the three years before Revis was drafted, 22-26 in the three years following
The point is that playing it safe, or getting the two top corners in the NFL didn’t make their teams better. They couldn’t effect the game to the point where more wins were being amassed. You have to find a way to make your team better at a position of importance.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting the Panthers reach for a QB for no good reason, but if they think any of these three guys could be franchise QBs (not fans, not pundits), then they have to take them. Given we’ve seen them attend pro days, work three guys out and now invite three to Carolina for a playbook test it seems they really like three quarterbacks. Now they need to see how they shake out.
Would you rather get a slighty above average QB with the first pick
Or a one of a kind CB? Rich Gannon was the reason those Raiders did so well and he was a 4th rounder. Jake D led us to the promised land.. he was undrafted. Tom Brady… yeah. It is much harder to find a elite CB in the later rounds than a QB.
Asomughma cannot help that the Raiders reached for a QB and it destroyed the team for years. Revis cannot help that Brett Favre cost them games and that Mark Sanchez was another reach. The Raiders and Jets (pre last year) never had a CB as talented as Gamble opposite of their elite guys. Without that, teams can throw away from them (also taking out their #1 WR though). With PP7, they will be forced to throw both ways.
Look at the Steelers.. Without BRo they went 3-1 (or 4-1, forget)… Without Pola they were 5-7, with him 16-4. Elite DB> Elite QB there
I still fully believe that noone should guve up on JC BASED ON THIS SEASON. If he does not fit the new offense, that is different, but drafting Gabbert or Newton will not magically fix the offense at all. We will still have a rookie QB, and there are much more things beyond the draft that we fixed/need to fix to in order to improve the offense. Once again, picking Gabs/Cams is just to get more talent at a position of importance absolutely does not make the team better there. We won with Jake D due to playing to his strengths, being healthy and having a good QB coach (rip scherer blows nuts).
There is no reason we HAVE to pick a QB #1 in order to fix that position. There are many other things that have/had to be done in order to fix it. Hell I even said I am not opposed to picking a QB later, as I believe they can easily be just as successful, considering there is no “Elite” QB in this draft (but there are elite players: Von Miller, AJ Green, PP7, etc)
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
There's this draft saying
If you think a guy can be a franchise QB you HAVE to take him. Simply put, even if Gabbert doesn’t meet the expectations of a #1 pick, if he is even mildly successful he’ll be worth more than any CB. Gabbert is very unlikely to bust, he has the physical traits, and you just don’t see guys with good intangibles bust like Russell, Leaf, or Leinart. He may not be a top ten QB, but he very well could be. And that’s a gamble worth taking. Patrick Peterson isn’t going to make us a dynasty even if he’s better than Aso and Revis. Gabbert on the other hand could make us a dangerous team for years.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Mar 30, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree
if Gabs does not meet expectations and is only mildly successful it will be a complete failure as you can get guys like that in later rounds. Not a single person here should be satisfied with picking a player 1st who does not meet expectations/ is slightly above average. I am not content with mediocrity from a #1 pick. If you pick a player that high, he should be top 3 in his position within 5 years (or is it top 5 within 3 years?). IMO PP7 can be that with ease, same for Von Miller. I do not see Gabbert or Newton being a top 3 QB. Andrew Luck perhaps, but not them.
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Missed the point.
We’re not drafting because he’s going to be mediocre, we’re drafting because he has the upside to be great. I’ll repeat it, if you think a guy has the potential to be a franchise QB, you HAVE to take him. If the FO think Gabbert is the guy, he’ll be the pick.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Mar 30, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
Ppl thought JR, Leinart, Smith, Leaf, Akili, etc etc were franchise QB. Should not have picked them. Noone thought Brady was… and he is. Unless a QB is a surefire elite caliber QB no doubt, I would not pick him 1st. More importantly than “if you think a guy has the potential… you HAVE TO take him”, I believe you HAVE to get the #1 pick right. failing on #1 picks have destroyed coaches and teams. and to me, PP7 is that right pick being the most talented and safest. No Brainer
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
We have a chance to set our franchise up for the next ten years, minimum.
We’ve been playing it safe the past few years, and it hasn’t done much for us. If the FO thinks Gabbert can be the guy, then he will be the pick, doesn’t matter what you or I would do. For the record, Stafford and Bradford were far from sure things at #1, they’re looking pretty good atm.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Mar 31, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
If Jimmy develops (Gabbert being a good pro is just a big of if)
than our offense will be fine and picking PP7 would help us fill the void left by Dick and we would have Gamble’s replacement waiting in the wings. We would have great CBs on both sides, it would help tremendously. No longer would we have to yell at the TV because Marshall missed a tackle for a TD. I have many more reasons, but you can find them in argument #2 on the PP7 debate
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
There's a fine line between blind optimism and stupidity.
UNLEASH THE KRAKEN!!!!
by RjTheMetalhead on Mar 30, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Jimmy can still develop.
But I wouldn’t bet anything on it at this point, with what has recently come out about tuning out the coaches. I also don’t think he has the respect of any of his teammates. Now all of this can change, we thought Matt Moore was a legit upper tier NFL QB at this time last year. And we could very well be stuck with two legit QB’s, Gabbert and Clausen. Which is a good problem to have.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Mar 30, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Who thought MM was a legit upper tier QB? Not sure anyone did considering he played a few amount of games
And yes we could be stuck with that. But why not a legit QB and a gamechanging DB?
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
We could not trade Gabs/JC for an Asomuhgma or Revis.
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
That's curious logic
An guy who hasn’t been drafted yet and a guy whose been a failure so far couldn’t be traded for pro bowl DBs? SHOCK
How about this: Do you really think neither the Raiders nor Jets would trade their CBs for Josh Freeman straight up? I sure do.
We were saying if they were legit
And I doubt the Jets would. Al Davis would see Freeman as a lighter skinned Russell and say yes.
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Mike You talk like Peterson is going to be a sure fire shutdown CB
He hasn’t even played a down in the league yet.
The thing I REALLY hate is that the Bengals will probably end up taking Cam Newton at #2. - SexBengals Fan
Not heard a single expert compare him to anything less than HOFers or future HOFs
Everything he displayed at LSU translates to the NFL
Have not heard that about Cam
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Do you have links to these lofty comparisons?
by James Dator on Mar 30, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Jets probably wouldn't take the deal
because they have Sanchez.
But the Raiders, now they need a QB and I guarantee they would trade a Shutdown CB for a Franchise QB.
Although if we had two franchise QB’s, we could trade one for much more than just one CB. We could get a DT, maybe an OG, a 1st round pick that could help us get another young player who could become an elite talent.
Having two franchise QB’s is definitely more preferable than having a franchise QB and a shutdown CB.
We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time. ~ Vince Lombardi
by ThePanthers! on Mar 30, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not what Rivera wants...
It’s like saying “Why don’t we just run the wildcat every down?” it doesn’t make any sense if you pay attention to what’s happening.
This isn’t “The fan’s Carolina Panthers” It’s “Ron Rivera’s Carolina Panthers”… he wants Philip Rivers, he said so… everything else is superfluous.
And neither Cam nor Blaine are that
If only Luck had declared
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Several people did.
I was on the cusp, wanted to see how he performed under more pressure and with more on his shoulders.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Mar 31, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not holding out hope for a guy Rivera will “try and find a place for”.
Polamalu is one example, also a SS. Can you find me a similar example with a cornerback?
YOU see no reason to draft a QB… but if the organization does, then they absolutely 100% have to if they think there is a franchise QB in this draft. All there is to it.
The argument about ‘but what if he’s a bust’ is a terrible one, because there’s a chance the same could happen with any other selection in the draft. The tired ‘but there’s a greater chance…’ is bad too. If the Panthers take someone #1 overall then they don’t believe they’ll be a bust. It doesn’t matter what fans think.
There is literally zero evidence to suggest that as a whole quarterbacks selected after the 1st round have an equal chance to be franchise QBs as their 1st round counterparts.
To further support this I will back my statement up with facts.
There is literally zero evidence to suggest that as a whole quarterbacks selected after the 1st round have an equal chance to be franchise QBs as their 1st round counterparts.
2001-2010 (2010 draft omitted, too early to tell)
1st round quarterbacks who have been considered ‘franchise’ QBs:
- Michael Vick
- Carson Palmer
- Eli Manning
- Philip Rivers
- Ben Roethlisberger
- Aaron Rodgers
- Jay Cutler
- Matt Ryan
- Joe Flacco
- Josh Freeman
10 franchise QBs, 22 1st round QB’s taken. Success rate: 45.5%
2nd- undrafted QBs considered ‘franchise QBs’
- Drew Brees
- David Garrard
- Matt Schaub
- Tony Romo
- Kyle Orton
- Matt Cassell
6 franchise QBs, 89 QBs taken. Success rate: 6.7%
I am not opposed to picking a QB later, as I believe they can easily be just as successful
Are you so sure about that Mike?
James really???????? Thomas Brady is mad at you
Also, Delhomme was not a franchise guy and he is a success IMO
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
So you think adding those two changes everything?
Brady’s draft
- 0/1 in first round (0%)
- 1/11 in subsequent rounds (9.0%…Brady was the only one)
Delhomme’s draft:
- 0/1 in first round (0%)
- 1/10 in subsequent rounds (10%)
I’m not really sure why you think we should take out Flacco, Freeman, Cutler and Palmer but add Delhomme…. but I’ll play your game
Add in Brady and Delhomme as successes then and Pennington and Drunkenmiller as failures.
- 1st round: 6/24 (25%)
- 2nd and beyond: 4/110 (3.6%)
Numbers still aren’t looking good here
Was talking about 1st overall picks originally.. not sure how it went to 1st rd vs later haha
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
20 years of #1 overall QBs
Hits are in bold.
- Drew Bledsoe
- Peyton Manning
- Tim Couch
- Michael Vick
- David Carr
- Carson Palmer
- Eli Manning
- Alex Smith
- Jamarcus Russell
- Matthew Stafford (too early to tell)
- Sam Bradford (too early to tell)
5/11- 45.4%
What stat should I look at for guys like Tom Brady over the last 20 years?
Vick has never led his team to the SB, so he is still a failure IMO
Same for Carson. Eli got soo lucky, but even though he has only one Pro Bowl (as much as Jake……… wow), he is not a failure. So 3/11
That is not good for picking #1 IMO. a low % of success rate.
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
I'm talking about first overall... the expectations for a lower selection is obviously lower
But Warner, Brees and Delhomme all did more than Carson or Vick has done. Besides the point though.
IF you select a QB 1st than if he should lead you to a Super Bowl at least IMO. Or be Philip Rivers.
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Then what point are you trying to make?
You said Eli Manning didn’t count… he has a ring.
There’s nothing that shows it’s just as easy to find a Warner, Brees or Brady as drafting one #1 overall. There just isn’t.
I said Eli does count, even though he shouldn't haha
There is nothing that shows it’s just as easy to draft a #1 Elite Franchise QB as there is finding one of those three.
And the risk is infinitely less with a non 1st overall pick
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Doesn't matter...
Everyone else can see it clear as day.
Is Cam kool-aid flammable? If so, I'll take some. I need an accelerant to light myself on fire.
I'm sure they can. noone has ever brought that up before
But thanks for your one contributing comment to this article
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Mike...
I hid the other comments. I apologize for what I said to you. I’ve had a shitty day and I shouldn’t have been snarky with you in the first place. I’m genuinely sorry. It won’t happen again.
Is Cam kool-aid flammable? If so, I'll take some. I need an accelerant to light myself on fire.
How? please explain
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
You use double standards.
First you say that Elite QBs are the ones that have a Super Bowl ring, then you go back and say the ones that do have them don’t deserve to be considered elite, and ones that don’t have them do deserve it.
Make up your mind or find a metric that isn’t constantly flip flopping.
No, elite QBs can at least lead their team to the SB
and usually have multi Pro Bowls. Eli has one pro bowl :( as many as Jake D
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
So Philip Rivers isn't Elite
Because he’s never lead a team to a Super Bowl? Before this year, Aaron Rodgers wasn’t elite?
Also, Flacco, Freeman, Cutler, Palmer are not considered elite QBs to me, still have much to prove
Palmer was for a year or two, but meh.. Would want a franchise QB to be elite for longer than that
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Okay... take them out then
I’ll also take off Garrard, Schaub, Romo and Orton off the other side if your standards are that high.
6/22 1st rounders: 27.2%
2/89 2nd and beyond: 2.2%
For when words just aren't enough...
Some people just don’t get it.
by aceofsween on Mar 30, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
+1
Such a great comment! Rec’d.
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
This is what’s called “selective statsitics”. Here’s the real fact of the matter. The following are the 1st rd qbs in total since 2001.
Mike Vick,
Patrick Ramsey,
David Carr,
Joey Harrington,
Kyle Boller,
Byron Leftwich,
Rex Grossman,
Eli Manning
Philip Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
JP Losman
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler
Jamarcus Russel
Brady Quinn
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Alex Smith,
Aaron Rodgers
Jason Campbell
Matthew Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow
Out of these 25 QBs, the following have reached a level of elite consistency. Key word “consistency”
Carson Palmer (one bad season doesn’t prove inconsistency), Rivers, Big Ben, Rodgers, Ryan, Flacco, (5625)=a putrid 24%. no matter how you want to take this fact, .a 24 percent success rate is not assuring for a position that can make or break your team.
In this draft littered with its doubts as it is, that assurance rate is barely 20
Even if you do omit 2010, that rate is still just 6/22 which equates to 27 percent. Now you look at that and tell me you want to spend that kind of money on a position that has the type of success rate AND in a draft with this little number of surefire qb talents.
Yeah but if you never take a risk you just stay mediocre.
QB is a riskier position to take. So does that mean you just never take one?
Disclaimer: BusyBeingAwesome = Irony. And, on a side note. I miss you, Steve Beuerlein.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Mar 31, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Where else and how else do you find a QB?
I’ll go with your number here… ‘barely 20%’
- Is there ‘barely a 20% chance’ you can find a franchise QB in free agency?
- Is there ‘barely a 20% chance’ you can trade for one?
Low percentages are a hallmark of the position, a reality… do we want to play the ‘consistency’ game with every position drafted? Because using your metric I bet we’d find a lot more busts at DB than QB.
Herein lies the problem. People want to evaluate the QB position in a vaccuum, act like it’s the only position where you only get a ‘consistent’ player 27% of the time.
For fun, here are the last 5 drafts 1st round DBs:
- Michael Huff
- Donte Whitner
- Tye Hill
- Jason Allen
- Jonathan Joseph
- Antonio Cromartie
- Kelly Jennings
- LaRon Landry
- Darrelle Revis
- Leon Hall
- Aaron Ross
- Reggie Nelson
- Brandon Meriweather
- Leodis McKelvin
- Domonique Rodgers-Cromartie
- Aqib Talib
- Mike Jenkins
- Antoine Cason
- Kenny Phillips
- Malcolm Jenkins
- Vontae Davis
- Eric Berry
- Earl Thomas
- Joe Haden
- Kareem Jackson
- Devin McCourty
- Patrick Robertson
- Kyler Wilson
Using the same standard of ‘consistency’ how many names do you pick out in this list?
Almost all but
about 5-8…..
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
List please
I would like to know who you are willing to include as successful DBs, yet rule out Josh Freeman, Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco
Say we leave them in
still a MUCH greater % for DB..
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
some still being evaluated
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
okay, first of all, you have safeties lumped in with cornerbacks, if you kept it restricted to cornerbacks, you’d be pleasantly surprised. in addition, you look at the last five drafts, ignoring the fact you’re comparing a 5 year span for CBs to a 10 year span for QBs. Lastly, the consistency game is IMPORTANT for the most important position in the game. Drafting a lousy QB would hurt you alot more than drafting a lousy CB.
I’m not even making this is a DB debate, but I’m afraid you’ve failed to really support your argument with what you just presented.
%‘s are %’s…. doesn’t matter whether it’s 5 or 10 years.
I’ll restrict it to CBs for the last 10 years for you, and bold who made a pro bowl. A nice, easy metric to evaluate.
- Ahmad Plummer
- Quentin Jammer
- Philip Buchanan
- Lito Sheppard
- Mike Rumph
- Terrence Newman
- Marcus Trufant
- Andre Woolfork
- Sammy Davis
- Nnamdi Asomugha
- DeAngelo Hall
- Dunta Robinson
- Ahmad Carroll
- Chris Gamble
- Adam Jones
- Antrel Rolle
- Carlos Rogers
- Fabian Washington
- Marlin Jackson
- Tye Hill
- Antonio Cromartie
- Jonathan Joseph
- Kelly Jennings
- Darelle Revis
- Leon Hall
- Aaron Ross
- Leodis McKelvin
- Domonique Rodgers-Cromartie
- Aqib Talib
- Mike Jenkins
- Antonie Cason
- Malcolm Jenkins
- Vontae Davis
- Joe Haden
- Kareem Jackson
- Devin McCourty
- Kyle Wilson
- Patrick Robinson
11/38- 28.9%
For QBs:
9/25- 36%
AND more CBs are selected to the probowl…
uh oh
RIght, because we all know Leon Hall isn’t a pro bowl caliber CB and Jenkins is. Joe Haden must suck since he didn’t make the pro bowl and yeah Dunta Robinson and Chris Gamble…my my some truly awful CBs. I purposely left the pro bowl out of my evaluation because guess what, it is entirely subjective. FYI Aaron Rodgers hasn’t made the pro bowl either. Neither did Deangelo Williams in 2008. Oh and that Queintin Jammer dude…what a truly awful CB.
disagree with your assessment of them by far
And where did 9/25 come from LOL
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
You can "LOL" all you want, or you could check and see who made the pro bowl
- Peyton Manning
- Philip Rivers
- Eli Manning
- Ben Roethlisberger
- Jay Cutler
- Vince Young
- Aaron Rodgers
- Matt Ryan
- Josh Freeman
Like I said, 9/25
Just a Pro Bowl is never what we said
CONSISTENCY
VY gone, Freeman, Cutler, as well
Palmer too
Peyton should not be o nthis list, 1999.
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
What is the definition of consistency?
- How do you apply it to the CB position?
- How do you apply it to the QB position?
If you’re going to throw subjective terms out there, define them
Basically years in a row being a good starting CB
stats are almost irrelevant at this position, though so it is hard. Basically if a player has been a #1 CB his career (and considered in the top 10-15 in the NFL most of those seasons) (not counting the first year or two) than that is consistency for a top CB pick.
For a 1st rd QB, it’s good stats obviously, but also winning and being considered top 10 as well
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Okay... so let's extrapolate that out then
There are 32 quarterbacks in the NFL and 25 have been taken in the last 10 years in the 1st round.
One of your baseline exceptions is that a 1st round QB should be top 10 at his position. Which, I think is fair.
Given there are 64 starting CBs in the NFL (2 per team) I would then assume to follow the same logic a quality 1st round CB would need to be a top 20 cornerback in order to be ‘consistent’.
Now, it gets subjective from here… but here are who I consider the top 10 QBs in the NFL. I’d like to know who you consider to be the top 20 CBs.
Top 10 QBs:
- Peyton Manning (1st round pick)
- Philip Rivers (1st round pick)
- Tom Brady
- Aaron Rodgers (1st round pick)
- Drew Brees
- Ben Roethlisberger (1st round pick)
- Matt Ryan (1st round pick)
- Eli Manning (1st round pick)
- Matt Cassel
- Joe Flacco (1st round pick)
7 of the top 10 in my eyes are 1st round picks.
I’ll defer to you for your list of top 20 CBs
Where is Schaub?
Would not put Flacco in the top 10 at all
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Flacco had the help of an amazing RB
And sick Vet WRs.. and a dynamite D. I would not put him in my top 10. Cassell helped lead the horrible Chiefs to the playoffs haha
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
How can you say in the same sentence “Flacco had the help of an amazing RB” then not mention the fact Matt Cassel has not only Jamal Charles but also Thomas Jones?
Cassel has Dwayne Bowe and Tony Moeaki who was almost as good as heap
B/c the Ravens have MUCH more talent overall than the Chiefs, not even close
TJ+ Mason + Boldin>>>>>>Bowe + Moeaki + whoever else
But yes, charles is a monstar
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
So Flacco was bad before this year?
I could have sworn he had pretty good success last year and the year before without TJ or Boldin. That doesn’t even take into account those were his first 2 years.
AND Todd Heap, sorry
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
I have been starving for hours, making dinner, will do this after though
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Philip Rivers over Brady?
Interesting. I guess Rivers is younger but I still got to pick Brady, even though I hate the guy.
We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time. ~ Vince Lombardi
by ThePanthers! on Mar 30, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t intend that list to be in order.
Rivers is after Rodgers right now, until he gets a ring too.
by James Dator on Mar 30, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Jury is still out on a few of those guys anyways, same for Bradford, Stafford etc etc
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
going way back
but the thing is, i the past ten years PP7 has more talent than anyone on that list not named Berry or Taylor. He has been compared to the 2 players with 7+ Pro Bowls in fact. But consistency is what we somehow started talking about. This lists only Pro Bowls. Freeman nor Flacco has been to a PB, Ryan only 1, Eli only 1, etc etc etc
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Kevin Smith, Terrell Buckley, James Williams
Ben Smith, Bruce Pickens, Tom Knight, Michael Booker, Chris Canty, Terry Fair, Ahmed Plummer, Rashard Anderson(how can we forget?), Willie Middlebrook, Jamar Fletcher, Mike Rumph, Phillip Buchanon, Andre Woolfolk…I got tired of counting.
Every single one of the DBs listed above was drafted in the first round and were compared to Hall of Fame player at some point during their draft reports by an analyst. Not a single one ever made a Pro Bowl and I’d daresay most are considered busts.
DBs get compared to HoFers quite a bit. Hype is not limited to QBs.
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques
As far as I'm concerned...
Rashard Anderson doesn’t exist; we need to wipe his name from all records of us ever drafting him
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
by Tomthehomer on Mar 31, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Holy hell
I totally forgot about Rashard Anderson. I feel like I have to go crap now that I’ve been reminded of this blight.
Disclaimer: BusyBeingAwesome = Irony. And, on a side note. I miss you, Steve Beuerlein.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Mar 31, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
My bad - I never forgot
High DB draft picks still make my guts churn.
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques
:(
Double whammy since he went to K-State.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Mar 31, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
How is there no evidence, I feel there should be tons of evidence
This year there is no bonafide elite QB. There just is not. Andrew Luck is an elite franchise QB prospect, Gabbert is not. Therefore picking him 1st would be a reach.
I would not even be opposed to picking Ponder or Dalton, I think both have as much chance to be a good QB in the NFL as Gabs does.
SUPER BOWL ONLY (which is the ultimate measuring stick)
Super Bowl 45
Aaron Rodgers (winner) – #24th overall
Ben Roethlisberger – #11 overall
Super Bowl 44
Drew Brees (winner) -#33 overall
Peyton Manning – #1 overall
Super Bowl 43
Ben Roethlisberger (winner) – #11 overall
Kurt Warner – Undrafted
Super Bowl 42
Eli Manning (winner) – #1 overall
Tom Brady – #199 overall
Super Bowl 41
Peyton Manning (winner) – #1 overall
Rex Grossman – #22 overall
Super Bowl 40
Ben Roethlisberger (winner) – #11 overall
Matt Hasselbeck – #187 overall
Super Bowl 39
Tom Brady (winner) – #199 overall
Donovan McNabb – #2 overall
Super Bowl 38
Tom Brady (winner) – #199 overall
Jake Delhomme – Undrafted
Super Bowl 37
Brad Johnson (winner) -#227 overall (would be undrafted now with only 7 rounds)
Rich Gannon – #98 overall
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Eli Manning to me is not elite either
that championship was lucky, but one Pro Bowl equals elite does not make. haha
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
This pretty much shows that you need a first-round QB to win a Super Bowl
Six of the nine match-ups shown were won by a QB drafted in the first round. The only time a first-round picked QB has lost was been against Tom Brady or another QB drafted in the first round.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Mar 30, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
My mistake
Brees won a Super Bowl too and he was the first pick of the second round.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Mar 30, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Today though he would be the 32nd pick.
UNLEASH THE KRAKEN!!!!
by RjTheMetalhead on Mar 30, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
What that shows is only 2 QBs selected #1 even played for the SB
If you select a QB #1, the goal is to at least make (and win) the SB. Anything less is unacceptable. The #1 pick is the one pick you do not want to mess up.
PP7 has the most talent, is the safest pick, and is the “least to bust”.. Knowing all this + that we need to fill Dick’s spot. Why not pick him?
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Because a CB simply doesn't have that big of an impact on the game.
But this has been discussed ad nauseum, so there’s no need to go into this.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Mar 30, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
And the rebuttal to that has been discussed ad nauseum as well
See PP7 debate argument #2. Thanks
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
And I disagree that a CB is an impact postition.
But you’re set in your opinion, as I am set in mine. There’s no need to go into it any further. To quote our former coach, “it is what it is”.
And don’t pull that “thanks” BS. Frankly I find it dismissive and disrespectful, which I haven’t been with you.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Mar 30, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
So shutting down a teams #1 WR is not an impact?
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Nope, not really
See above on the three years pre and post Asomugha and Revis for their respective teams.
Both organizations successes and failures were tied to the QB position, CB had zero impact to how many games were won or lost.
IMO those successes and failures have WAY too many variables such as other players
We have talent, and lots of it. The Raiders post 2000’s had Nnamdi and that is it. If there is no help obviously a CB will have less of an impact because they will throw away. But a top CB still shuts down half a field
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
The fact still stands
That a CB, even the best two in the league, didn’t affect the overall record of the team. Why would we be any different?
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Mar 30, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
So you disagree with Bill Polian?
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Yes, I do
Recent history has shown that a CB does not make a major impact on a team’s record. I have my opinion on the subject, he has his. I happen to disagree with him.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Mar 30, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
We are not the piss poor Raiders or the pre elite Revis Jets
Revis became elite in 2009 and was a huge impact with them getting to the playoffs
During the 2011 AFC Wild Card game, Revis held Indianapolis Colts wide receiver Reggie Wayne to one catch for a mere one yard in a victory over the Colts
You are right, ZERO IMPACT…
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Indianapolis president Bill Polian, whose selection of Manning in 1998 started the recent craze, attributes the urgency to what he termed the “eternal verities” of football.
“The two most important commodities in the game are pass-rusher and quarterbacks,” Polian said. “If you’ve identified one that you think can win for you, you have to pull the trigger. The big difficulty is trying to identify one that can win for you. That’s a hard job. In our case, it was not as hard as it might be in other cases because Peyton was such a stick-out. If either of those two commodities [is] available to you, you should take them because they are hard to come by and they do change the game. And you can’t really win big without either one of them.”
UNLEASH THE KRAKEN!!!!
by RjTheMetalhead on Mar 30, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Bill Polian of the Colts is one of the best drafters we’ve ever seen, so I asked him what he thought about taking a cornerback first. “I don’t think there isn’t any position that shouldn’t be taken first,” he said. “That pick carries a high price tag with it, so you want to make sure you are getting your money’s worth. So it goes back to take the best player.”
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Peyton was a stick out
Luck is that stick out to me, Gabs/Cam are not
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
If I remember correctly you only changed your tune on Luck when he said he was returning to Stanford.
Prior to that, when he was a threat to come to Carolina you just kept saying that he was overrated.
This is my thinking.
PP7=Better chances for Clausen to start.
UNLEASH THE KRAKEN!!!!
by RjTheMetalhead on Mar 30, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Fail?
Sure sounds like what he said made sense. You say we have tons of talent but without a QB we won’t be able to win anything significant, and Clausen is not bursting with talent at the moment. Why not give us a little bit more of a chance at getting that elite QB?
We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time. ~ Vince Lombardi
by ThePanthers! on Mar 30, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Clausen was considered pretty damn good last year
we got an A for that pick. Nothing has changed. Giving up on a talented QB after one year is sad.
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Fail
Clausen was considered pretty damn good last year
I didn’t realize “pretty damn good” was synonymous with “worst starting QB in 2010” but whatever…
I think he meant before they saw him play in the NFL.
Is Cam kool-aid flammable? If so, I'll take some. I need an accelerant to light myself on fire.
I dunno...
Even that doesn’t really hold water. His college stats, particularly in the Wins column, aren’t what I’d call amazing.
His stats where absolutely amazing haha
considering all that “talent” was hurt most of his career and he had a toe problem all jr year
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
He didn't have wins...
But I have to acknowledge that he was a good QB at Notre Dame, statistically speaking.
Is Cam kool-aid flammable? If so, I'll take some. I need an accelerant to light myself on fire.
The lack of wins came from the horrid defense
and the injuries to key players, no consistency
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Many QB's come out
looking pretty damn good. Its what they do in the NFL that matters, honestly once a QB enters the NFL I stop caring about college ball. You should be able to respect this since your so persistent in your feeling that late round QB’s can be as good as 1st overall QB’s.
And in the NFL, Clausen showed no improvement, from one of the worst statistical seasons ever. We can’t completely rely on him to develop, and by picking PP7 thats what we do. We put the franchise into Jimmy’s hands.
Let me ask you this, Jimmy ends up being a below average QB but our new aggressive defense and running game gets us 6 wins. We also draft PP7 this year. What do we do then? Have a few more awful years of football because we have no QB? (I also said 6 wins because that should take us out of the running for Luck, Barkley and any other QB that might rate better than Gabbert or Newton)
We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time. ~ Vince Lombardi
by ThePanthers! on Mar 30, 2011 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
And in the NFL, Clausen showed no improvement, from one of the worst statistical seasons ever
If he does the same this year, you can say that. He was never supposed to start, and you cannot judge a QB from one no win situation year…..
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Regardless of the situation...
a good QB will show improvement over the coarse of the season, even if he wasn’t suppose to start. Clausen seemed to get worse every game he played throughout the season. Hell, Pike was moving the ball better than Clausen in the fourth quarter than Clausen did in three quarters!
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 1, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Last year.
There came a time when I wan’t expecting to win games, I was just expecting for Clausen to show improvement so I could reassure myself that the next year was going to be better.
I never expected Clausen to succeed but I sure as hell expected us to score some points. He didn’t get us a decent amount of points when he first came in, which is expected, and he didn’t get us a decent amount of points near the end even when our O-line was getting better, our running game was getting better and our defense was getting better. Everything showed flashes of improvement but Clausen failed to follow along with the trend. I’m not holding the lack of good stats and wins against the guy, I just want improvement, and when I don’t see that, I feel that I am allowed to judge him.
We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time. ~ Vince Lombardi
by ThePanthers! on Apr 1, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
No I always said he is elite
100% disagreed on him being the best prospect since Peyton though
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
.......
If you select ANY POSITION #1, the goal is to at least make (and win) the SB. Anything less is unacceptable. The #1 pick is the one pick you do not want to mess up.
UNLEASH THE KRAKEN!!!!
by RjTheMetalhead on Mar 30, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly! thank you
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
And sadly Peterson does not increase our chances.
UNLEASH THE KRAKEN!!!!
by RjTheMetalhead on Mar 30, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree again
PP7 absolutes helps our team
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Mike when you build a house where do you start?
UNLEASH THE KRAKEN!!!!
by RjTheMetalhead on Mar 30, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
At the Head Coach (fixed) , QB Coach (fixed)
getting a vet QB (being repaired), developing our two young talented QBs (in repair), getting a quality TE (fixed), not having TWO starting rookie WRs (fixed). That is how.
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
sounds like you're building the frames, roof, and other infastructure without putting down a foundation first
house of cards my friend, one gust or heavy rain and its all coming down
I'm sorry Mike....
But Super Bowl are not the true measuring stick of a QB being elite or not. It’s a team game and it’s the team that gets to the Super Bowl not the QB!
How is ducktape like the force? It has a light side and a dark side and it binds the galaxy together...
by Panther4Life!!! on Apr 1, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey James
Ted Kluck wrote a really good article on this a few years ago. He completed an exhaustive study on the topic dating back to the 1983 draft. The bust percentage of a 1st round CB was 29 percent. The percentage of CBs taken in the first round that attended a single Pro Bowl was 23 percent. His finding were that the odds of finding an “elite” corner actually come after the first round.
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques
Meh, data like that is too old
The game changes each decade or so. You cannot compare stuff like that in the 80’s to now, different game.
The top 5 CBs right now were all 1st round picks: Aso, Revis, Woodson, Champ, D Hall
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
FWIW: The study dated back to the 80's and was not limited to the 80's
1983 through the point at which he completed his study a few years ago.
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques
This is the Kluck study I found:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=kluck/quarterbacks/070425
I see from 1989-2003, NOT 1983.
Even so, the % of busts for QBs is enormously high
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Yeah I like that one too but I wasn't referring to his QB study
I was referring to his CB study. That dated from 1983 through the point he concluded it, I assume around the same time.
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing you will be an idiot in the future and common sense is knowing you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques
he did a study for every position in that link I sent, CB was the 3rd safest pick
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
you guys are like a bunch of pirahnas
by chop goes da weazel on Mar 31, 2011 12:32 PM PDT
he mentioned the exact same thing about finding a CB later rounds too, why I thought it was the same
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
you guys are like a bunch of pirahnas
by chop goes da weazel on Mar 31, 2011 12:32 PM PDT
Good stuff!
My feeling is people see the Jamarcus Russell’s, Matt Leinart’s and Alex Smith’s and are immediately lulled into this false belief that QBs bust more often than other positions.
Yet another source that proves it’s simply not the case.
by James Dator on Mar 30, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I still think 1st overall QBs are more likely to bust.. 1st round was not originally what I had talked about
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
I know of this article..
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=kluck/quarterbacks/070425
The bust % for QBs is 53%, for CBs 29%
Even then for QBs I feel it too high
Jeff George was #1 yet is not called a bust?
Dilfer was #6, 1 pro bowl and the championship but still, come on horrible #’s
He does not call Pennington a bust..
HE does not call Leftwich a bust
Palmer for #1 was
He does not call Grossman a bust……..
That % gets even higher then
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=kluck/quarterbacks/070425
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
There's a reason he doesn't say those QBs were busts
His study stopped 8 years ago and only measured 1989-2003, the players you take exception to were rookies when the study stopped.
Interesting stuff for sure, but since 2003 how many 1st round QBs have we seen succeed vs. fail?
Furthermore, it’s far easier to be a ‘bust’ at QB using Kluck’s criteria that at CB:
QB:
We’ve set the bar at 80 games played in the league, plus a positive TD/INT ratio. Obviously, a Pro Bowl appearance or Super Bowl win
CB:
We’ve gone with the baseline 80 games played, or at least one Pro Bowl appearance.
So… a CB can be a nickel and it helps count towards their 80 games, but a QB needs to start? Doesn’t seem equal to me.
James you are wrong
Those players were NOT rookies. He clearly has the amount of games beside them haha. He has Boller as a bust but not Lefty or Grossman
Dilfer was not close to a rook, neither George or Pennington
So the % is way higher IMO
He does not even go by his own bar…
And I am not saying this guy is correct at all (about CBs), just stating to Vagus that he is incorrect and showing proof why.
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Rarely will you hear me say a study is 'too broad'... but 1983-2003 is 'too broad'
Scouting has advanced light years from just 2000 to now, let alone 1983.
Even if you just split Kluck’s analysis in half look what happens:
- 1983-1993: 6/9 were ‘busts’ by his definition. This represents 66.6%
- 1994-2003: 10/21 were ‘busts’ by his definition. This represents 47.6%
I don’t think it’s a coincidence here, but more likely that we’re seeing QBs bust less now than 28 years ago because of better scouting techniques.
by James Dator on Mar 31, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
And looking at the CBs listed
he has them pretty on point. most were #1/#2 guys for their entire careers that weren’t busts and I agree with almost every one (do you disagree with any?)
And for QB, you have it wrong- it is not games started, it’s games played… so even garbage duty… the bar is set pretty low IMO. Positive TD/INT ratio and a long career (would want that and more out of a 1st rd QB)
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
The ‘garbage duty’ point is a terrible one. How many QBs play in ‘garbage’ time vs. CBs playing as nickels?
Busted 1st round CBs get stuck as 3rd CBs… yet the still get to count as ‘successes’
by James Dator on Mar 31, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Cornerback proved to be a riskier proposition than safeties or linebackers. We’ve seen more CBs go in the first round of late, with teams hoping for the next Champ Bailey or Deion Sanders — but we haven’t necessarily seen an uptick in performance. In fact, many of the league’s great corners in recent years, such as Ronde Barber and Sam Madison, came out of later rounds.
Because around the early 2000’s, there was no “elite” CB prospect.. Newman and Jammer were great prospects but not considered in the same class as PP7 coming out of college
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
hehe.....Crotchery.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Mar 30, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Only b/c he is a Jet haha
had to get in a dig
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
I will add Dovonte Edwards was pretty solid at WR (CB too)
But he went undrafted :(
He is a friend of mine, went to the same HS in Chapel Hill… dude was a seriously good baller too. He had one shining moment in the NFL, picking off Favre for a TD on MNF. Sigh
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
I haven't been impressed with Mooch's Film Room pieces in the past but this one was pretty good
Gabbert seemed pretty confident in describing the play Mooch wanted him too. I saw nothing in this piece that made me question Gabbert as still the top QB in this draft. My opinion obviously
Gabbert as still the top QB in this draft.
I think he is the top QB rated as well, but he would be leaps and bounds rated behind other “top QBs” in previous years
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
People have said that about every QB for the last 3 years
It’s never held true.
They said that about Sam Bradford, Matt Stafford, and Matt Ryan. The last time they didn’t say that was about JaMarcus Russell in 2007!
Hey MikeTrain I have a question?
If PP7 is so good then why in the hell did Cam Newton drag his ass into the endzone?
The thing I REALLY hate is that the Bengals will probably end up taking Cam Newton at #2. - SexBengals Fan
really?
Did not know that it was a CB’s job to take a QB down. Thought that was the LB/DLine’s duty. Guess I was wrong!
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Still doesn't ex the fact that an "ALL WORLD PRO BOWL SHUTDOWN" cornerback
like PP7 got his ass dragged into the end zone haha don’t worry you will be seeing plenty more of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in0k5f4rIgMcuse
The thing I REALLY hate is that the Bengals will probably end up taking Cam Newton at #2. - SexBengals Fan
So? That honestly does not matter one bit
Revis/Aso would have the same thing happen in college vs Newton. THEY ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE TO TAKE DOWN A 6’5 250 LB QB. It is entirely irrelevant haha, a joke
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
The Success of #1 picked QBs is not very high, and
those were QBs thought by all to be elite franchise guys who “had” to be picked 1st, besides JR.
In this draft we do not have that bonafide #1 elite QB guy, like how Luck would have been.
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Funny thing is: if Luck were in this draft you’d still be arguing that we shouldn’t take him, just like you were 3 months ago when his decision wasn’t made yet.
Is Cam kool-aid flammable? If so, I'll take some. I need an accelerant to light myself on fire.
I actually eventually said I would be fine with that
I argued he was not the best prospect in 10 years though haha
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
No, you didn't
please see below...
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
I hope you realize that comment was the day before
And people began whispering all over the place that he was not going to be leaving Stanford at the time.
So did you say that before his official announcement? Sure. That doesn’t mean you didn’t already come to a personal conclusion that he wasn’t going to come out and I quite frankly don’t care enough to find out if you said anything on that topic one way or the other.
Dude I 100% agreed with Luck as the pick, but cool.
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
James, I didn't want to derail the conversations
But you have the patience of a saint and CSR is much better off for your contributions here.
Heck yeah.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Mar 31, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Ace, ouch, big time fail man
I am not saying that JC is the answer
And still advocate luck as #1, but IMO aj green is the most "talented" player by far
GSO
by MikeTrain on Jan 5, 2011 8:19 AM PST via mobile up actions
And AJ Green “was” the most talented, until he flopped at the combine and PP7 steamed ahead.. Still believe Green is top 3 in terms of pure talent though. PP7, Von, Green
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Part of me wishes we needed a LB so we could take Von Miller
He’s going to be a beast.
Is Cam kool-aid flammable? If so, I'll take some. I need an accelerant to light myself on fire.
If we needed a LB bad, Von Miller would be my definite choice at #1
PP7 a close second only because Miller also has that All Pro feel about him (no homo)
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Part of me thinks we should take Von Miller anyway, lol
Is Cam kool-aid flammable? If so, I'll take some. I need an accelerant to light myself on fire.
Would say just support PP7 then haha
Both are all world talents who are the safest picks (yet with HUGE upside), and look like an All Pro future is in the works- except PP7 fills a definite void
Von Miller will make a Demarcus Ware type impact though.. Quickly
GSO
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
Hmmm... after doing a lot of reading and thinking... I don't think anyone is wrong.
Just because Mike is in the minority with his opinions doesn’t make him automatically wrong. Although, I wish he would be less defensive when others attack his logic.
There is a reason that PP7 is being referred to as the ‘safest pick’ in the draft. There’s a reason why there have been several conversations about the value of picking a CB 1st overall. Clearly, the talent is there. I also see the potential for him to be a game changing CB. I truly feel that PP7 could enable us to rely on man-to-man coverage on the outside while being aggressive with the interior of the defense. If we picked him, I don’t think I would be upset. I would be dreaming about our defense. I know our defense was pretty good last year… maybe it’s not unreasonable to shift our defense from “pretty good” to “great”.
That being said… I’d be really happy if we picked Blaine Gabbert as well. Like I said earlier… the kid is smart. I think this thread only proves that judging talent coming out of college projecting into the NFL is REALLY HARD. People get paid to do this for a living and they haven’t figured it out in how many years now??
I also dispute the logic that picking a guy #1 overall means we better get a Super Bowl out of the guy. If you’re picking #1 that means you were simply bad the year before. The ONLY goal of picking a guy number 1 is that in conjunction with other draftees and free agents, you avoid picking number 1 for a 2nd year in a row. You want to improve. That’s it. The goal of ANY team regardless of draft position is to get back to a Super Bowl. I’m not sure how that got inserted into the conversation because I, personally, don’t think it’s relevant.
I’m not one that really pays too much attention to statistics. I know there are plenty of people that make projections using numbers but as we have seen through this thread… even relying on those, the numbers aren’t great for ANY position.
I’m much more of a fan of judging character and intangibles – and I know I’m not the only one. It may sound tenuous to some, but I have a strong positive vibe about Blaine Gabbert. I’m becoming a believer but I’m not foolhardy. I know I can’t believe everything I think.
The ONLY truth that all of us can attest to is that we have NO CLUE who any of these prospects will pan out no matter how good they look on paper or on film. That’s just the way it is. Remember that this is all in good fun and take it easy on each other.
Last but certainly not least… GO PANTHERS.
by Fernando De La Cruz on Mar 31, 2011 8:12 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
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