Still feeling good about Smitty being here come the fall? Maybe you should think again
by James Dator on Feb 10, 2011 8:28 PM EST
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PrintI'll be the first to admit that I'm like a hormonal teenager when it comes to Steve Smith. There are peaks and there are valleys. Sometimes I find myself furious with him, the other times I'm passing him notes like a love sick teenager with boxes marked 'yes, no and maybe' (figuratively of course). So when I heard that Fred Graves was going to be WR coach, that Ricky Proehl was on board and when Joe Kenn became strength and conditioning coach I didn't hate the hires- but I also pegged them as 'these appease Smitty too' type guys.
That was until this evening when I read Joseph Person's post about Smith, and when you really listen to what Rivera is saying I think you'll feel like I do now... sure he's going to be gone.
I'm a big 'read between the lines' type of guy. I think I've honed a deft ear to 'coach speak' in dealing with John Fox for the better part of a decade; when 'you'll have to ask the personnel department really means 'that sure as hell wasn't my decision!' and 'It is what it is' meant 'Back off... what do you want me to tell you?' you tend to learn how coaches like to phrase things. So when Ron Rivera says:
"As far as I'm concerned, he's a part of what we are right now."
It tells me that 'right now' is February, and 'right now' doesn't last very long. Especially when that's preceeded with:
"we've got to have our minicamp and all that when we get the opportunity and see how he fits with it, and see how it fits him and see if it's what we need and what we want, and we'll go from there."
These aren't the words of a head coach who is ready, willing and able to kowtow to a 10-year veteran with recent outbursts when things don't go his way; and nor should he. The thing that's funny about Person's article is that if you read it in reverse you actually get the most out of it, and you see that the nail in the coffin (from where I sit):
"Rivera indicated he expected Smith, at a minimum, to participate in the team's minicamp (provided a new CBA is in place in time for teams to stage minicamps)."
Later the Panthers' HC says he appreciated Smith's candor on where he is, and where he wants to be. When you couple that with only expecting a minicamp, and working from there it lends itself to the notion that as it stands the two sides are not optimistic they can be what each other 'wants', but are willing to give it the old college try because unless there is a CBA they're stuck with each other for the time being.
Other notes from Rivera
In the same article Ron Rivera says that QB Jimmy Clausen elected to stay in Charlotte and rehab his injury, rather than return to Notre Dame to get his degree at this time. When you couple this with previous messages from Clausen via Twitter that he was studying the new playbook then you see a player sacrificing his previous goals to work on football, and that is a good thing. My understanding is that Jimmy is finishing up the classes he started via correspondence, but wont be taking any more at this time.
Best news though is this quote from Rivera:
"I'm excited. I think there's a great group of young guys. I had a real nice conversation the other day with (defensive end) Charles Johnson. You hope to get a chance to visit with everybody and talk to everybody and have them feel like they want to be here. I think that's important."
If CJ wants to be here, then that is amazing news because he could be the most important resigning we have.
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Saw that on Twitter
And safe to say, it doesn’t sound good for Smitty.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
I can understand the business aspect of it. But if Steve Smith gets traded it there will be enormous blowback.
In a case like that if he didn’t make AJ Green the 1st pick in the draft, he better hope he wins. It would IMMEDIATELY put him on the hot-seat to win. You can’t take a huge risk like that and then expect the fans to be placated with a 10-12 loss season.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Reced by the way. Interesting post. Makes me stroke my beard.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
I wouldn’t approve of this. Neither Lafell or Gettis are sure things, and both are definitely not number ones. Smith may be in decline, but he’s the only known commodity we have at that position.
I think it all plays into the philosophical shift that's occurring whether we like it or not
Both Rivera and Chud have experience on successful teams who never had elite receivers, but rather look average guys and made them elite like Vincent Jackson.
Perhaps they don’t see the potential drama with Smitty being worth the benefit from his production? I honestly have no clue, but I think if Smith is gone it will be as much about him as it will be the new coaches.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
Perhaps they don’t see the potential drama with Smitty being worth the benefit from his production?
That may just be the clincher. No doubt Smitty still has a couple of years left in him, and he can be valuable to any offense that wants to use him. But Rivera seems to be a no nonsense guy who isn’t going to tolerate the misgivings of any player on this team. He wants a well oiled football machine, and not some prima donna running any part of the show.
A part of me welcomes that approach. To many of these damned players get their way because of their skills, and to a certain extent Smitty is the same way. However as Slayer said above, neither LaFell or Gettis are sure-fire WR’s. Losing Smitty will put this offense in the hole, and will make getting a WR go from being a non-issue to a position of need.
I trust in Rivera to do what he thinks is best for the team. If that includes trading Smitty to a team that can give him a chance at a SB, then so be it.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
If that’s the case, they haven’t watched tape of our offense this past season.
by SlayerGhaleon on Feb 10, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
The only reason he is in decline is bacause he doesn't have a decent QB to throw him the ball... remember this is a guy who puts up 1000 yards year in and year out with Jake Delhomme at QB
But if we do get rid of Smith then there is no doubt we are taking AJ Green with the first pick
The thing I REALLY hate is that the Bengals will probably end up taking Cam Newton at #2. - SexBengals Fan
Disagree, on both counts.
Smitty is getting up there in age. He’s 31 now, which doesn’t make him ancient like some guys, but he’s certainly no spring chicken either. That and he’s always been a speed guy. Once those players lose their speed, they don’t have as much to rely on as others, like Moose.
Just look at his kick off returns from last year. He was slow. There’s no other way to put it.
My only thing is why hire a WR coach who has ties to Smith only to trade him when they get the first chance?
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
Maybe because he is good
and he’s a teacher. I don’t think this team is looking at the past when it comes to our SB team. Most of those guys are retired or out of the league. This is the new Carolina Panthers, Ricky Prohl did not get hired because he is Steve’s friend, he was hired because he is a damn good WR trainer and might be coach material.
I still think if Testaverde wanted to try to be a QB coach we would look at him as an assistant. I’m surprised we didn’t see Steven Davis get picked up as an assistant.
It may be a new game, but we have an old player as an owner. I think that’s why he’s surrounding himself with other ex-players. For all intents and purposes, our FO and coaching staff is The Expendables. This team is either going to rock the NFL, or be the laughing stock of it. But I can’t wait to see which it is.
If God came down on Christmas Day/ I know exactly what He'd say/ He'd say "Oi!" to the punks/ and "Oi!" to the skins/ but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
Hard to imagine Smitty in anything other than Carolina Blue
I’m still not ready to believe just yet, that Steve won’t retire a Panther… But if his days are numbered here in Carolina, I wish him much success and the best of luck wherever he goes… He’s one of my most favorite players, and I have truely enjoyed watching him on the field… I will always continue to be a fan, and will be holding my breath if he ever lines up against Carolina… I just find it hard to believe that the new head coach wouldn’t want a player with Steve’s heart, desire, and passion to win on a team he now commands… I agree with James though… If Smith is gone from Carolina, it would be mutual between him and the coaches… But to me, it would also be a sad day for us as Panthers fans…
by MidnightDrifter on Feb 10, 2011 9:20 PM EST reply actions
If Steve Smith is traded, I'm going to be the most pissed off man in the Carolina's
I’ll literally have to refrain from posting any comments and any articles. I won’t be able to do it. I’ll be fuming mad.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
While it's a little to early to say that Smitty definitely will or won't be traded...
It seems like the general feeling may be that it just isn’t working. Like an unhappy marriage heading towards divorce, it just isn’t working. And it just seems not to be working for either side. Smitty seems to want out being that he may only have a few years left and Rivera isn’t sure how Smitty will fit into his offense. Seems like it may just not be a good fit. A trade very well could happen.
Hes earned the right to be traded and as much as i love Smitty he has been our offense for the longest time. We are starting new and trading smith would defiantly be a sign of that. He deserves to go to a top contender and try to get a ring. Maybe Patriots will trade us one of there many picks in the second and third rounds for Smith? Brady to Smith would be insane im just saying
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
I'm still thinking...come week 1 (or whenever)
Smitty is wearing electric blue still; I have absolutely no logical argument to offer on that, just a hunch on the matter….
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
This would be dumb
And the call is not for Rivera to make. The decision belongs to Hurney.
Smith will be productive untill he hangs it up. This is obvious to me… You put the pieces around him and he will produce. We have most of the pieces.
Loving the young group of "Teachers"
He wants out it then Hurney Rivera and whoever else doesn’t have much option other then trade him. Disgruntled Steve Smith is not what you wan’t inside your locker room when starting a new
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Feb 10, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
1st off i love rivera getting to know his players
i know coaches do that but the way he does it just seems different
second im going to have to respectfully disagree. smitty is a face of the franchise and our best recieveing threat we have. rivera said in his first conference that he thinks that smitty is a great player with alot to offer. i think you’re missing fox’s foxisms alittle. rivera seems like a straight shooter as in no hidden meaning in what he says
Hate to see him let go
But if we lose Smitty, it better be in a trade to a contender. And not in our division. The weird thing is, and I may throw up a little for typing it, I think it would be good to trade him and a third if the CBA is done in time, if not next years second to the Bears for Olson.
But seeing Smith, Pep and Hitman on the field against us would just be sickening.
If God came down on Christmas Day/ I know exactly what He'd say/ He'd say "Oi!" to the punks/ and "Oi!" to the skins/ but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
Id trade him to a AFC team. Patriots are looking at adding WR’s after the loss of Moss. Brady to Smith would be deadly. They also have a butt load of picks…Including our second to trade with.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Feb 10, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
I see that too
But I’d rather trade for a player than a chance. But Smitty could do well with the Pats.
If God came down on Christmas Day/ I know exactly what He'd say/ He'd say "Oi!" to the punks/ and "Oi!" to the skins/ but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
That's just jealousy talking
Brady is the Man. He has the same passion for the game that Smith and Delholme have. That’s why he is another guy who went from nobody to the top.
In fact, name another QB who has gone from where Brady started to where he’s going to finish. How many guys, in the history of the NFL? Maybe Kurt Warner?
He may bitch to a ref, but he doesn’t throw tantrums. He throws touchdowns.
The only time I have seen Brady actually get close to a tantrum is in the Jets playoff game. Brady is like Kobe. He may be an asshole, but if you can get him you are damn lucky to have him. I take that back, Brady is better than Kobe because he didn’t start out at the top, and never dictated his terms from the beginning.
If God came down on Christmas Day/ I know exactly what He'd say/ He'd say "Oi!" to the punks/ and "Oi!" to the skins/ but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
So if some magical way Brady became a Panther this year
You would stop following the team? You would never cheer for him? Because that is hate.
I was jealous of Mike Vick when he was in Atlanta. I said I hated him, but I hated the way he tore us up. I now hate Mike Vick. If we signed him I would shred every piece of Panthers memorabilia i own and mail it to Jerry Richardson. Autographs and all.
That is hate my friend.
Now how do you really feel about Brady?
If God came down on Christmas Day/ I know exactly what He'd say/ He'd say "Oi!" to the punks/ and "Oi!" to the skins/ but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
+1
Disclaimer: BusyBeingAwesome = Irony. And, on a side note. I miss you, Steve Beuerlein.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Feb 11, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
+10000000
Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski
by Tomthehomer on Feb 11, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
I dont think thats a fair statement to make
If your loyalty is to a team, then you should back their players (yes even Mike Vick), at least during the regular season, then in the off season you determine whether or not you want them around (kinda like how i am with Pickles. right now i want to see him replaced for at least the next couple of years with a veteran, but that doesn’t mean if that doesn’t happen that I’m gonna cheer for him to fail). But that doesn’t mean by ANY means that you cant openly say you don’t want someone like Tom Brady to come to the Panthers, which i am saying right now. Brady is a product, just like Aikman before him. He’s a Hollywood Quarterback on an insanely talented team. The Patriots win, give him the credit, and sell thousands of little pink #12 jerseys (which literally make me want to vomit every time i see one).
The patriots are a “sell their soul to win” kind of team. Bellichick is a very smart man, but i have absolutely no repsect for strategies that involve being cutthroat and cheating no matter how well they work. But they do work, and a marketable quarterback is there to reap the glory of it all, whether it was his doing or not. He’s a media darling, so naturally the Media Glorifies him. And if you buy into the media, he is the best quarterback ever. and the cowboys are the best team every single year. and the panthers dont even exist (they never mention us). since those last two things arent true, why is the first one?
To settle the matter, our new SB champs have proven to be quite a force, but when Aaron Rogers got a concussion, the Packers lost to the Lions 7-3. Brady goes down with a knee injury for the entire season, and Matt Cassel (who came from even less than Brady did) took the team to 11-5. Brady comes back the next year, they go 10-6. Brady is not the foundation of the Patriots the way that Rogers is for the Packers or Manning is for the Colts. He’s not a team carrying quarterback, he’s along for the ride. Granted this has been probably his best year ever, so my comments lose some validity just for that fact, but i stand by the statement that if he had spent this year in the Bay area or up in Detroit or over in Tennessee or (God Forbid) even in Charlotte, you wouldnt’ve see the same Brady that you did this year in New England. Its not Jealousy, its injustice that someone like him is referred to by people as the best Quarterback around/all time because he’s marketable and appeals to women viewers, when there are other people more deserving.
Rivera/Chudzinski '12
by Blingydamon2 on Feb 11, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I'd be hard-pressed to find it said any better than this. Rec'd.
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
Rec'd also.
I don’t discount Brady’s skills. He’s a talented guy. But I do believe that he’s over-hyped because he’s lifted so much by the parts surrounding him. The team has talented (if not the classiest – Spygate) coaches, and they have one of the best rosters you could ask for. If you find a way to actually get pressure on Brady, he’s not The Almighty Brady anymore. He rarely gets pressured, because – like I mentioned in the thread about FA O-linemen – his OL is so good and gives him all freaking day in the pocket. He’s a great pocket passer with incredible completion percentages, tons of TD passes, and remarkably few INTs. But if you put him up against a D that has done it’s work – a D that limits his options by sticking right on all of his receivers and by getting past that line, you can see that he’s not much more than a pocket passer. He is an amazing pocket passer, but not an all-around QB.
Rec'd also.
I don’t discount Brady’s skills. He’s a talented guy. But I do believe that he’s over-hyped because he’s lifted so much by the parts surrounding him. The team has talented (if not the classiest – Spygate) coaches, and they have one of the best rosters you could ask for. If you find a way to actually get pressure on Brady, he’s not The Almighty Brady anymore. He rarely gets pressured, because – like I mentioned in the thread about FA O-linemen – his OL is so good and gives him all freaking day in the pocket. He’s a great pocket passer with incredible completion percentages, tons of TD passes, and remarkably few INTs. But if you put him up against a D that has done it’s work – a D that limits his options by sticking right on all of his receivers and by getting past that line, you can see that he’s not much more than a pocket passer. He is an amazing pocket passer, but not an all-around QB.
Don't agree even a little bit
Yes I root for the Panthers, but because they are my home team and I agree with them philosophically. I don’t have to root for them at all, and am willing to drop them like a bad habit if I feel that they are not the team I grew to know and love.
Growing up i lived basketball, loved basketball, and could name every player in the league and give you their stats off the top of my head. As I said earlier, I grew up a Celtics fan in the south and got my ass BEAT for liking a yankee team (as well as the fact my parents were yankees). One of my prized possessions out side of my wedding ring and my autographed Steve Smith Jersey is a double autographed Larry Bird basketball card that my mom got me back when athletes had to fly commercial.
When we got the Hornets it was the greatest day of my young life. I was at their first win against the Clippers. It was on my Birthday. A few years later, my family could afford season tickets and I was at every home game. I lived and loved that sport more than anything.
Then a philosophical change happened in the sport. Maybe it was Detroit winning o couple back to back, but the players took too much controll and it became a thug league. There was no finesse any more. I played like Laimbeer when I was a center, but something was missing from the sport I grew up loving.
And I dropped it.
I watched the Celtics/Lakers Championship when it was on. But I don’t watch games anymore. I could care less about the Bobcats, even though they would still be my home team.
So while my loyalty is to the Panthers, if I don’t agree with their philosophy anymore then I don’t have to support them. Heck, it wavered when Smith attacked Anthony Bright.
And while you may argue that Brady is only a system QB, why keep him? Why pay him so much? Cassel probably would have cost less in the long run. Brady is better than you want to give him credit for.
BTW. The way you attack the Pat’s actually makes my point. If you disagree with a teams philosophy, you don’t cheer for them. And since the Celtics were my team before the Hornets, can you guess who I rooted for before the Panthers?
If God came down on Christmas Day/ I know exactly what He'd say/ He'd say "Oi!" to the punks/ and "Oi!" to the skins/ but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
Thank you for stating this!
Brady. although NE fans think he’s a god, is the product of an incredible system. Like you stated above an unknown QB in Matt Cassel came in and almost took them to the playoffs. Brady crumbles under pressure, and many teams have the D-line to disrupt him, but they don’t have a good enough secondary. Look at what the Jets did to Brady in the playoffs, put a little pressure on him and he isn’t the same calm cool collected QB that won helped win those Super Bowls. If it wasn’t for the leg of Adam Vinatieri they wouldn’t even be talking about Brady being the best QB of all time! Like Jamie said, I have to give credit where credit is due. He’s a good QB, but collapse the pocket around him and he’s not that great. Either way, he’s a douche!
To Many, Many winning seasons under our new coach Ron Rivera! And may we win a few Super Bowls along the way to becoming a Dynasty!!!
by Panther4Life!!! on Feb 11, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Favorite Panther of all-time...
We are a team in transition. I know it sucks to think about, but it’s undeniable. If we can recieve compensation in the form of a resonably high draft pick, a young player of value, or both, then we have to do it. We are rebuilding, not reloading. I honestly feel like he has played his last game for the Carolina Panthers…
just a thought say we do lose smitty to trade. How about signing Vincent Jackson? He knows the SD system is a big body WR and is a different mold then what we currently have. He is a huge target in the redzone. I know he has had his issues but maybe Ron and Chud could convince Jerry and Hurney
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
Sidney Rice
Please and thank you.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Feb 10, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
Id like Rice as well. IF we do lose Smitty i don’t think we can go on with just Laffell and Gettis and……Armanti. We will need to sign a potential #1. Rice and Jackson both could be said #1 and are a lot younger then Smith. Plus they don’t want to rip off Clausen’s head. Least not yet
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Feb 10, 2011 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
Mark it down.......
you will never see Sidney Rice or Vincent Jackson in a Panthers uniform.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
Follow me on Twitter
Didn't Minnesota really want him
Seems like he has some attitude problems, and I don’t think we would get into a bidding war. If the coaches vouched for him though than it would definitely be worth taking a look.
If God came down on Christmas Day/ I know exactly what He'd say/ He'd say "Oi!" to the punks/ and "Oi!" to the skins/ but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
They did but with our Coaching staff and familar system we could have the egde. There was no signs he wanted to play for them and there is no Brett Farve anymore.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Feb 10, 2011 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
Im not seeing it....
James most of what you write I can agree with or at least see what your trying to say and gives me food for thought. I just cant see Smitty leaving for no reason or because the new staff doesnt want him.
Steve hasnt come out and said he wants to leave, as far as I know, and for the most part has been very willing to do what he needs to do to help the team. He has stated himself that he isnt getting younger and would hope that he could move down the depth chart and play in the slot one day. I believe when Steve and the new coaching staff get together they will come up with a game plan both are happy with and go into training camp to see how things pan out. If it works out that younger recievers can handle the new offence and play the 1 then Steve takes a lesser role, if they cant then Steve keeps the 1 spot for another year.
For all that Steve does for the team and the community I cant see the Big Cat letting him walk away or traded for less than market value. Mabey JR doesnt have his hands in the coaching and player personal as much as some owners but he has to have a say in who is on the team.
He was very emotional the last game at BOA and was waving goodbye to the fans. He has said beginning of last season on the radio show in Charlotte depending on how the year went he would contemplate a change. He said he loved the Panthers but did not want to be part of a rebuilding process to finish out his career.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Feb 10, 2011 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
He really does deserve better than that
and since he isn’t good at training guys up, it is probably best to ship him off.
I’m sure that he will retire a panther though.
If God came down on Christmas Day/ I know exactly what He'd say/ He'd say "Oi!" to the punks/ and "Oi!" to the skins/ but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
You could definitely be right
I see what Rivera is saying as supremely respectful… there is a mutual ’we’ll see what’s best for each other’ that could end up entailing sending Smitty to Chicago, or to another team who is closer to a championship than we are right now.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Feb 10, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly...
I don’t want to see Smith get old. He is a Carolina Panther through and through, but i would be o.k. watching him ride into the sunset with a different team trying to win a Super Bowl…
I like the the last quote:
"When I’m eating dinner or lunch or I’m walking through a mall or I’m at the grocery store, people have come up and wished me luck and told me they’re behind us and they’re expecting big things, which they should as our fans."
Southerners are approachable by nature so Rivera is saying, whether intentional or not, that he is not put off by being approached by fans (provided they are nice I would assume). It’s these type of things that could endear Rivera to his new fan base. Though I have no choice but to be optimistic I have a good feeling about this coaching staff.
Would you be disrespectful to this man?
I know I sure wouldn’t, lol.
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
So we are assuming both Smitty and the Panthers have different agendas?
Smitty doesn’t want to waste his last four good years on a rebuilding effort? Would he really say something like that in his first meeting with a new coach? Maybe…;)
Smith: “Coach, I need to get 15 targets a game. You’ve already said you are going to throw the ball a ton. 89 needs to eat!”
Rivera: “I do understand the Rules and Regulations of the NFL…but until Egypt is back under control we can’t guarantee anything.”
Smith: “Egypt will calm down when I tell them to calm down! 15 targets a game coach or India is going to go postal on Madagascar.”
Rivera:“I’m sorry Steve, your just too short for our offense. We require min. 6’5” at WR. It’s back to punt returns and 3rd down slot duty for you buddy. But I did bring you some Cactus Cooler."
Smith “That’s cool coach…for now”
This is totally tongue in cheek after a few adult beverages and not enough sleep…;) Unresponsible blogging in some corners of the internet
LOL
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
There you go again, blaming Egypt for everything. :-)
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
"previous messages from Clausen via Twitter that he was studying the new playbook then you see a player sacrificing his previous goals to work on football"
What previous messages were those?
I thought his tweets were about flash cards, and you said those related to Notre Dame classes.
And how would he have a “new playbook” anyway? That’s BS.
Someone's full of shit, but it's not James...
Treatment, lift, film to start off this beautiful Friday in the Queen city…
You decide.
Is your block quote from one of Clausen's tweets? It's not labeled as such.
I had not seen it before, and asked respectfully about the “previous messages” mentioned.
If you have access to his tweets, thanks. I don’t.
I didn’t say James was full of shit, but I kinda suspect you’re saying I am. If that’s the case, we’ll meet outside in the parking lot, at noon.
What I said was BS is that he or anybody else could be studying a “new playbook” that doesn’t yet exist.
Get off my ass.
On the playbook... I don't know what to tell you, Clausen said he was learning it.
From January 25th:
raynman
@JimmyClausen you know how long you are going to be in town? is it going to interfere with school at ND?
Jimmy Clausen
@panther_ray learning the new playbook! Not too sure
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
Well then, of course it must exist, if he says it does.
With a brand new assemblage of coaches, who haven’t even met all the players yet, I didn’t expect they’d have time to create a new playbook so quickly.
And if it does, it must be filled with square peg plays, to fit round holed guys into, whose talents haven’t yet been assessed.
I questioned its validity; I’ll let it go. Thanks for the reply.
Perhaps Chud stole Norv Turner’s playbook from his sacred vault?
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
of course you will.
I have NEVER seen you give Clausen credit for anything. The man can’t win with you. Every time you open your mouth to talk about Clausen (not sure how you manage that over the internet) the same old, redundant, hateful spiel comes out. You’re not that type of poster, and it takes away from your other, insightful posts.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Feb 11, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I am insightful, and am happy you can see that, FW
You seem to be stalking my posts lately, especially ones that aren’t directed at you, in reply. But that’s okay.
My posts about Clausen, while being unfairly typified by you as hateful, are always predicated on facts, numbers, and comparisons – or on occasion just for fun, like the flash card business. I don’t start talking about him; others do, and I generally refrain from comment, unless someone starts making excuses for his woeful play. That’s when I start waxing insightful, to counter the fluff, and the misguided loyalty. To you, it’s hateful. Whatever. I don’t hate him; I just don’t want him as the Panthers’ starter. I’m tired of seeing them lose, and strongly feel they won’t be a winner with him at the helm, even with sterling OL blocking.
Is the pickles stuff hateful? I never use it. Is the emu stuff hateful? I never use it. Is the bathing suit stuff hateful? I never use it.
Go pick on somebody else for denigrating him, personally. I only do it on a professional basis. The kid’s in over his head.
Did saying it's 'bullshit' that he has a playbook in fun, or predicated on facts, numbers or comparisons?
I’m interested in trying to get a sense for it, because other players say things and we’re happy to take it at face value, but if Clausen says he has a playbook it’s invalid and it’s bullshit?
If it was in fun, then I’ll file it away with the flash cards… but you didn’t really present it in the same tongue in cheek manor as the flashcard comments.
What motivation would he have for lying to a random person over Twitter that he has a playbook? He has absolutely nothing to gain by doing it.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
I wasn't joking, nor was it a statistic-based comparison.
I was calling BS on the “new” part. If he’s studying a playbook, I can’t see how it could be a new one. Can you? Do you yourself believe there exists a “new” playbook yet? I’d be mighty surprised if the new coaches would’ve had the time to construct one yet, when Rivera hasn’t even met with half the roster.
I didn’t see the original tweet. Did it say “new,” or was that an inadvertent add-on?
Man, I am getting called out a lot lately.
Apparently, my frank criticisms of the shortcomings of some of the Panther players (I’ve been just as critical of the play of Fiammetta, Bernadeau, and Marshall, so Clausen’s not the only one) just can’t be accepted as valid opinions, no matter how many specific plays, or the lack thereof, I cite. I read/scan every post on this blog, and hundreds of critical lambastings are thrown around, by other posters, without dispute.
(Oh and BTW, since my approval rating is soaring, anyway, it’s manner, not manor. Your journalism career acceptance could rest on something as miniscule as correct homophonic usage. I don’t mean that as snarky, just helpful. I know you’re on the cusp of bigger things than this blog.)
I absolutely think their could be a ‘new’ playbook… ‘new’ to Clausen that is. Chudzinski is a former OC from both the University of Miami and the Cleveland Browns. While in Cleveland Chudz started utilizing Josh Cribbs out of the wildcat and as a slot receiver, which is exactly the way Rivera said they plan to use AE in an interview.
I believe they’re likely just taking much of Chudz previous playbook in Cleveland and tweaking some of it, which in turn would allow them to have something for Clausen to work with before the CBA expires and they’re not allowed to demand anything from the players. There were 10 days between when Chud was hired and Clausen tweeed about the paybook, plenty of time to at least get him a basic version to start learning.
The original tweet was written verbatim. You can find it here. However, it was in response to a different question… but it doesn’t change anything.
There’s a huge difference between ‘frank criticisms of shortcomings’ and ’He’s a liar’. You absolutely have been critical of the play of numerous players, but nobody gets lambasted in your posts with such regularity as Jimmy Clausen. If you just don’t like the kid then that’s fine… but to think you treat him the same way as you do Fiametta, Marshall or Bernadeau is ridiculous- especially when it transcends play on the field and becomes so critical of his character that you call ‘bullshit’ on something as small as him having a play book. Should we call bullshit on Thomas Davis’ rehab going well too? Or Beason saying this team will get better? Is Matt Moore a liar when he says he’ll be throwing in a couple of weeks despite that being far ahead of the typical time frame of a labrum tear? Is there anything in the past that gives credence to the idea that Jimmy Clausen is a liar?
As for manner v. manor (which I don’t write it off every time you point it out, I appreciate it) it’s simply a bad habit/holdover of Australian English. Aussie English is a hybrid of British and American word variants as we use realise and criticise, but jail (instead of gaol) and tire (instead of tyre). There are only a few words that have uniquely Australian usage and follow neither tradition and ‘manor’ is one of them. Manor and manner are interchangeable except when referring to someone ‘manners’ (ie ‘table manners’). It’s a terrible habit that I need to shake, but for some reason (more than likely because American spell check doesn’t pick it up) it’s a real challenge for me to get rid of.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Feb 12, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
I Dont like Clausen
But I dont think he would lie about practicing with a new play book for everyone to read, like all his team mates and coaches. How would it look to them to read him saying he is practicing something he doesnt have?
Clausen gets more from me, than the other players, because he has supporters who debate his potential with me.
If anybody wants to make excuses for bad play from the other 3 I just mentioned, let’s talk. But since most apparently agree with my assessment of their play, or don’t care, it doesn’t generate much discussion.
I don’t define BS the same as calling someone a liar. You know what I meant. I didn’t think a new playbook existed. If it does, I was totally wrong. Your explanation of the old book from Chud makes some sense, and I accept that as what he must have meant.
Let’s make a deal: I’ll not say a thing more about Clausen. You and Willow and ace and whoever else cut me some slack – I’m taking too much heat for just expressing my opinions. Which BTW, I think carry more substance than the raft of “+1, awesome!, LMFAO, and the like that clutter the blog every day.” If that’s not good enough, ban me, and I’ll take it like a man.
You can talk about whatever you choose
Although I disagree with much of your evalutation of his on field performance, I can certainly respect your point of view regarding what happens on the gridiron. I just find that it crosses the line when we call ‘BS’ on something a player said. I interpreted you saying :
how would he have a "new playbook" anyway? That’s BS.
To mean “If he says he has a new play book that is bullshit” it wasn’t a huge jump from that to ’he’s lying’.
To be fair, I really haven’t had any disagreements with you on these topics for weeks. Re: Willow, Ace and whoever you’ll need to work that out with them. I’ve chosen to let sleeping dogs lie on the on field performance stuff which is why I don’t get involved anymore, but I took exception to immediately assuming a Carolina Panther was intentionally being misleading. If you meant something else then we’ll leave it here.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
I do "pick on" other people for denigrating Clausen.
You just do it far more than other people. I don’t see Jelly Wedge or jai6y6 or JP_here throwing a dig at Clausen every chance they get, or even discussing him for a majority of their posts. You are too smart to start discussions about Clausen yourself, but you rarely miss an opportunity to get a dig in at him. We get it. You don’t want him as the Panthers starter. Why you feel the need to state it repeatedly every time the possibility of him succeeding is brought up is a mystery, I suspect it has to do with Matt Moore. But that’s another dead horse I’m not going to beat.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Feb 12, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
I see your youthful enthusiasm, and short attention span, lead you to only reply to the last thought, or sentence, in a complex post.
Perhaps if you read (or re-read) what preceded that sentence about denigration, you’d better comprehend what I’ve been about, as it relates to Clausen.
As to Moore, you’re beating that dead horse, not I.
Please read my reply to James from 3:33PM – the deal goes for you, too.
I’ve made over 5100 comments on this blog, and started 32 FanPosts and FanShots. Do you really think a “majority” of them have even mentioned Clausen?
So let me see if I get this straight, you're now saying because I'm young i can't respond to a complex, well thought out post?
Or do I need to re-read that again?
Perhaps you are the one who needs to re-read my post, I did respond to more than the last sentence. Not point-by-point granted, but maybe the structure was too complex for your aging mind.
Let’s both do each other a favor and leave our age out of it, it obviously doesn’t affect our ability to reason and form out logical, well written responses.
I’ll take the deal, although for the record you catch heat from me not necessarily for your opinion but more from the tone you express it in. It rubs me the wrong way, I suspect the same from ace. If you can control yourself when it comes to Clausen, I can restrain myself from attacking your posts when they come across as biased and unfair. Regardless, it’s a deal.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Feb 12, 2011 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a little late to this party
And James has pretty much said everything I have to say on the matter, so I won’t rehash any of that.
But if you want me to get off your ass, I would suggest you stop hiding behind your guise of being “Fair and Balanced” when it’s very obvious that you are anything but that when it comes to this kid. You can label me a “Clausen supporter” (despite the fact that I’ve argued with Flowing WIllow and MikeTrain and Oldham almost as much as you) if that makes you feel better. It won’t change the double standards you hold him to.
And btw, it took me all of 5 minutes to find that quote on his twitter page. Saying you “don’t have access” to his tweets is pretty comical sense by nature they’re available to everyone. So much for your facts I guess.
Thanks. Maybe "access" was the wrong technical word.
I don’t tweet, nor reads others’ tweets. I don’t have a Twitter account. Is that more specific.
I’ve assessed my thoughts on all the Panther players, and I don’t make excuses for bad play from any of them, so I disagree there’s any ‘double standard’ going on here. I hold them all to the expected standard of a paid professional who should do his job – if one of them fails to produce, more often than he succeeds, then I’ll criticize that. If you recall the Play-By-Play posts I did earlier in the year, I mentioned every missed tackle and block and bad pass, just like every good positive play. From every player.
Read my comment about all the Pickles/emu/speedo stuff. Do see my name in any of those posts? I don’t take every opportunity to pile on, when others are after him.
But I have been too over-diligent, let’s say, in counteracting every post that puts up the excuses for him, and I plan to eliminate those in future. As FW said, everybody knows my stance by now.
As for you and me, ace, you make a whole lot of positive contributions to this blog, and I appreciate those. About a month or so ago, I mis-attributed some posts about religion and ethics to you, that should have been directed to another poster, and you haven’t forgiven it, though I pointedly and publicly apologized to you right away. Let your grudge go. If anybody has a right to criticize my opinions or posts, it would be a Manager or an Editor, like James, or bw, or Jaxon, – not you or FW. You’re just another poster, like I am.
By all this, I’m trying to clear the air, and eliminate the personal bias and rancor that shouldn’t be here. We’re here ostensibly to talk about the Carolina Panthers, and not one another.
If this sounds submissive, and like I’m kissing your ass, I’m not. You and I will never lay eyes on the other, most likely. But let’s bury the hatchet, okay?
There is a double standard though.
It’s just as James said earlier. If Jon Beason or DeAngelo Williams or any other player had said they were going over the new playbook with the coaches, would you have called that bullshit? I would expect not, and so the question becomes, why was that your reaction in this case? The only logical conclusion is that it was because of the player who said it: Clausen. That’s evidence of a double standard. You take one player’s word at face value, but not another’s.
But I have been too over-diligent, let’s say, in counteracting every post that puts up the excuses for him, and I plan to eliminate those in future. As FW said, everybody knows my stance by now.
I do that too, but I take a difference stance. I color myself as very moderate, and when confronted with ideas from the opposite spectrum, I’m very vocal about my moderate views. However, “moderate” is relative to the discussion at hand. If I’m talking to you about QBs, I appear to be on the “Clausen side” of the debate. If I’m talking to Oldham or Mike, it appears as though I’m on the other. I don’t switch sides, it’s just that the term moderate is relative to the spectrum as a whole, and it is rare that both sides of the spectrum appear in a single argument.
Also, you can dismiss the notion that I have a grudge against you, because I really don’t. Had anyone else said the same thing, my reaction would have been the same. I’m kind of an ass like that, but at least a consistent ass. With school taking up a lot of my time, I don’t have as much to devote toward reading every single comment in these threads, so I skim. I tend to stop and read only a handful of select people’s responses specifically, and you happen to be one of those (hopefully, that’s viewed as a positive).
Also, I left this out but...
As far as I’m concerned, any post on here is fair game for both acclaim and ridicule (and obviously, we give more of the former than the latter). If someone posts something that I disagree with, I’ll point that out and explain why. I’m also more apt to say I disagree with someone than agree with them, simply because I don’t see the need to fill up an entire thread of comments with “Oh yeah, I agree with everything you said” 100 times over.
"If someone posts something that I disagree with, I’ll point that out and explain why."
That’s pretty much what I’ve been doing about our starting QB, isn’t it?
Like you, I look at the Rec button for agreeing; the Reply button for disagreeing.
I'd have thought that BS, too.
The point I was making wasn’t about him – it was because I didn’t believe any such “new” playbook was yet in existence.
Damn, this is a mountain out of a little bitty molehill, and I’m done with it.
You’re all making too much of what I say. It’s just my opinion. Sometimes, I just express it too strongly for others’ tastes, apparently because I’m not ‘moderate’ about certain things.
So Smith is leaving
I am not buying this bogus article Smith will be a Panther another writer stirring up Rumors i guess next he will post they are near a agreement on the CBA this article is a joke stop going by what you think you heard and start listening more cause nobody said Smith was leaving . So James you said you are a read between the lines kind of guy well you need to go back and read again cause someone has lied to you.
Why is everyone hoping Smitty leaves?
And really I am excited to have rivera as coach. But right now Smitty holds to much of the fanbase for Rivera to make such a move without putting himself instantly on the hotseat.
Can't afford to lose him...but if he does not want to stay
what choice do we have. I don’t see any point in forcing someone to stay here. I know that he has not said anything directly to the media, but Hurney’s comments are pretty revealing to me. When the FAs’ situation came up on the WFNZ interview, Hurney stuck to the line “we want to keep our core players” and “we are going to do what we can to keep them”. He also says that he thinks that these players want to stay and he sounds optimistic about having enough cap space to sign all core players.
The tone changes when Steve Smith comes up. He does some damage control “everyone is unhappy not just Steve Smith” and then he says, in a rather long-winded fashion, that it is too early to tell what we are going to do (as far as trading him). He says the obligatory things about how Steve Smith is a great player.
It strikes me that Hurney is more uncertain about Steve Smith today than about the free agents on our team. I think this has more to do with what Smitty wants.
not concerned about smitty
v-jax wanted more money. smitty will be around. when rivera sees his contagious passion and work ethic, skills and dedication, he won’t get rid of smitty. his comments are based on no personal interaction with smitty on the field. so these comments don’t mean anything. when TC starts, he will see that smitty, gettis, lafell and edwards can formt he best receiving corps in the league, and simply need a guy who can throw them the ball. clausen studying the playbook won’t make him a better QB. i remember an article about max hall in arizona, the rookie, when he made a mistake, he told the coach he made a mistake, it’s over, let’s move on! a lot of people compared that to how kurt warner approached football. that didn’t help him throw the ball any better, and hall looked more like clausen as he continued to play.
newton, d-will, stew and goodson running, and newton throwing to rosario, smitty, gettis, lafell, and edwards, will make for one of the most powerful offenses we’ve ever had in carolina.
Not sure Smitty's passion is contagious
His ire seems to be easy to catch. But to the younger guys Smith might be that old asshole who doesn’t get along with his QB and drops half the passes going his way.
Smith never seemed like the guy that went out of his way to make friends, and as someone around his age who has a similar demeanor, I don’t think he would instantly click in that “band of Brothers” way with some of the new guys. There is about ten years between him and the rest of the offense, and they haven’t done anything yet. But (judging from tweets, sociological guesstimation, what I saw at TC and at games) some of these guys do not work as hard as Smith did to be the best. They have not fought their way from the bottom to the top like he and Jake did. They aren’t underdogs, they are winners who became losers, and Smith has to fight them for a catch.
On the sidelines during games Smith looked pissed while the rest of the looked depressed. He knew how hard this was and the rest of these guys looked like they needed their mommy to tell them it was ok. Steve is a man playing on a boys team. Who can he trust? Who can he blow off steam with? Who’s been where he has that is on this team right now?
No one.
I’d probably be pissed too.
A change of scenery is probably the best thing for his career. And maybe for him as a person. If Steve does leave, as fan of the team I want something with equal or greater value than Smith.
As a fan of Steve Smith, I just want him to be happy.
If God came down on Christmas Day/ I know exactly what He'd say/ He'd say "Oi!" to the punks/ and "Oi!" to the skins/ but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
I think there's still bitterness
over losing Delhomme two seasons ago. Smitty loved and respected Delhomme not only as his QB but as his friend. You don’t ever see Smitty go and try to console Clausen on throwing a bad pass or interception. Every single offensive series that ended in an interception with Delhomme you’d see Smitty go over and tell him it was alright and almost always sit next to him and show his support. Delhomme earned the respect of his teammates, Clausen hasn’t done that yet.
To Many, Many winning seasons under our new coach Ron Rivera! And may we win a few Super Bowls along the way to becoming a Dynasty!!!
by Panther4Life!!! on Feb 11, 2011 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
More importantly Delholme earned the respect of Smith
Smith just seems like a guy where you have to “earn” his respect. And none of these guys have done anything (as far as I can tell) to earn it yet.
I kinda think the DJ situation screwed Smitty up as far as being a WR mentor. While the rest of the WR’s who we’ve drafted (excluding last 2 years because it is too early to tell) have sucked, DJ sucked and didn’t care And was making more money than Smith did when he came into the league.
Can you immagine what that would do to a guy who has worked as hard as Steve Smith?
Now a bunch of new guys come in, making more money, and thinking they are the shit. LaFell sucked at training camp. Edwards was out of shape, Clausen looks at everyone BUT Smith on the field and then mopes on the sideline.
Our WR corps started showing signs of life at the end of the season, but when you are rebuilding it can be 2 steps forward, one step back. Who wants to put up with that at the end of their career?
As far as the bitterness of losing Delholme. I think if Matt Moore could have pulled it off this season, the bitterness would have been dulled. Even 8 and 8 or 9 and 7 probably would have been OK. Once again it would have been a nobody working their way up, rather than a somebody falling on their ass and moping.
If God came down on Christmas Day/ I know exactly what He'd say/ He'd say "Oi!" to the punks/ and "Oi!" to the skins/ but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
by Oi2dwrld on Feb 11, 2011 9:44 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not trying to argue, but I am curious about something, Oi.
*First of all – this first part of the comment isn’t directed at you Oi.
I literally just posted a reply here, and it quickly disappeared. As did one of my replies from yesterday. It may be some kind of glitch. But if there is a reason that they are being deliberately deleted, would someone let me know why? I’m not trying to come across and angry or snarky, but I I honestly do not see how the comment from yesterday or what I just posted here were in anyway out of line or disrespectful & how they warrant editing if they’ve been deleted. I’m on Twitter – @jdkilpatrick – if there’s a reason that I need to be informed of.
So, I’m attempting my reply again.
Can you imagine what that would do to a guy who has worked as hard as Steve Smith?
Now a bunch of new guys come in, making more money, and thinking they are the shit.
Are you referring to Gettis/LaFell/Edwards when you say new guys came in thinking they were the shit? How do you think that they did? Again, not trying to argue, but I’m curious. I have never read about or heard of any attitude problems coming from any of them. Gettis in particular – several people have commented about how humble and how hard-working he is. LaFell came in with brick hands (however, they dramatically improved), but how is that thinking he’s the shit (if that’s what you were saying)? And if you were referring to AE with that comment, how is it that coming into camp “out of shape” imply that he felt that way about himself? He himself said that he came in out of shape – meaning out of WR shape. He came in with little knowledge of what conditioning the position required, but it’s not like he showed up to camp in Haynesworth or Duke Robinson mode.
Anyway, apologies if I didn’t interpret the comment appropriately.
I think he meant
that in regards about Jarrett not about Lafell/Gettis/Edwards.
To Many, Many winning seasons under our new coach Ron Rivera! And may we win a few Super Bowls along the way to becoming a Dynasty!!!
by Panther4Life!!! on Feb 11, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
More Clausen and from what I saw at TC and on the Twitter LaFell
Gettis was not intended as part of that.
AE a little bit because he knew he was drafted as a WR and should have started training to be one before he got here. I think he figured it out though and will be 1000% better next season. I am really intrigued by this guy.
Watching LaFell’s body language at TC though, I was really mad we drafted the guy, but I think he can pull it together to be a good WR.
Jimmy… I’m glad that he was smart enough to realize that he is a pro football player now, and not a ND student. I was concerned when he went back because I don’t think he gets an offseason. I think with the swagger and bravado that he had when he was drafted that he thought more of himself than the team, and going back to for his degree after the season he had was solidifying that opinion. Now that he is staying close I am willing to give him some leeway to see what he can do.
If God came down on Christmas Day/ I know exactly what He'd say/ He'd say "Oi!" to the punks/ and "Oi!" to the skins/ but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
Thanks for clarifying. Makes more sense to me now.
I thought that it was just referring to WRs. And I didn’t know much about TC. I just saw the preseason – so I didn’t really see the body language in regards to LaFell. And I can see where you’re coming from on Clausen. I am glad that Clausen returned to Charlotte – it eases my mind. =) If he’s taking distance classes and doing some sort of professional work on QBing at the same time – I commend him. =)
Jamie...
Check your email.
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
STOP THAT!!!! You're a married man!!!
Just kidding, struck me as funny.
Official ABC Fan Club President
Anybody But Clausen
by Jelly Wedge on Feb 11, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
No problem.
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
To Smitty's defense in this case...
I did see him occasionally console and calmly talk to Clausen. Granted, most of the time it was yelling or complete cold-shouldering. No doubt, Smitty was pissed and frustrated more often than not, but that wasn’t the case 100% of the time (probably more like 95%…LOL).
But that's what I mean
Clausen is a “Winner”, There is only so much building up you should have to do for this guy. He is supposed to be the leader, and he isn’t/wasn’t. Smith shouldn’t be telling Clausen it’s OK, Clausen should be surrounded by his guys coming up with ways to beat the defense.
Smitty pulled himself up from nothing (with Prohl’s help, which is why he’s here to help the new guys) Jimmy found out he wasn’t as good as he thought he was and disappeared.
If God came down on Christmas Day/ I know exactly what He'd say/ He'd say "Oi!" to the punks/ and "Oi!" to the skins/ but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
I know what you're saying...
Smitty COULD have (and I think should have) done a lot more. But, I did just want to point out that I didn’t think he was a complete jerk about it 100% of the time.
And it looked like he wasn’t a jerk about Gettis and LaFell – he celebrated with/congratulated them when they made good plays. It didn’t appear that there was the frustration with them like previously with Jarrett and later with Clausen.
But still, along the lines of what I said above, as a veteran guy on a struggling team, it would have been more admirable to step up to the plate and show more support. Is it his duty to do so? No. But it’s something that I would have respected seeing. And who knows what all happened behind the scenes. There could have been much more support than it appears there was to the outside world.
Actually I am agreeing with you
I’m not sure Smitty is in the right place mentally to do more. It’s why I think we should trade him. He seems to be the kind of guy that needs to trust his QB and the guys above him in order to be 100% effective. I don’t think he has that with Jimmy.
I don’t think of Steve Smith as the leader of the team. I don’t want to sound like I am talking down about the guy, but I really think he NEEDS to look up to his QB. I don’t want to play amateur psychologist here (but I’m gonna), but Steve Smith seems to be the ultimate role player, kinda like Peppers. You get him to trust you and ask him to do his job. That is it. Smith never put himself in front of the team like Peppers did, but they both seem to have that mentality and personality on the field.
If God came down on Christmas Day/ I know exactly what He'd say/ He'd say "Oi!" to the punks/ and "Oi!" to the skins/ but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
Agree with both of you
Smitty should have done more Jamie, Clausen should have sucked it up and acted like a leader Oi. With Delhomme, he kept his head up even when he was doing bad. It wasn’t until his last season here that he really did look defeated and Smitty was there for him when he needed it. Smith is not supposed to babysit Clausen and tell him, “it’s ok.” every single time he messes up. Clausen has to be able to tell himself, “it’s ok.” and keep playing and grinding it out. That’s the only way he’ll be able to earn Smitty’s respect and when Clausen is at his worst and can no longer find confidence in himself Smitty will be there in those dire times. But if Clausen’s having to look for complements and encouragement constantly I could see why Smitty wouldn’t respect him.
To Many, Many winning seasons under our new coach Ron Rivera! And may we win a few Super Bowls along the way to becoming a Dynasty!!!
by Panther4Life!!! on Feb 11, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Smith is far too valuable to trade.
The odds of drafting another player like Smith are 1-1000, so why would you say trade him? He is like Peppers in the way that even if he lost a step, teams still have to respect him with 2 guys every play. That is real value, especially while having our other receivers learn, they wont get the double coverage as much while Smith is in. I would give Clausen to another team free before i would trade Smith for anything less than a top 10 first round pick, & i doubt other teams would give that up.
Why Trade him?
because unfortunately the NFL is a business and if it were up to us, Peppers and Smitty and Beason, and Davis etc. would be Panthers for the rest of their careers. With free agency and trades it’s improbable for any one player to stay on one team for the rest of their careers. Unless you’re Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or Brian Urlacher it’s more than likely not going to happen. As sad as I’d be to see someone as good and as passionate as Smitty I’d understand if we had to trade him.
To Many, Many winning seasons under our new coach Ron Rivera! And may we win a few Super Bowls along the way to becoming a Dynasty!!!
by Panther4Life!!! on Feb 12, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
hate to lose him
my favorite carolina panther for years and i would hate to see him in a different uniform, plus i would hate to take down the smitty fathead that i had up for years
They cant trade Smith, ever.
He will never be worth his real value to another team. What i mean is, he is worth more to us than a late first round draft pick. This Green player is predicted to be a good receiver in this draft, would you trade Smith for a chance like him? Myself i would rather have the known threat we have in Smith. I dont think Smith has earned the right to go play for another team. I think Smith has earned the right to retire as a panther. Play for the team until he cant perform, then retire him and maybe make him a position coach or assistant. He has motivation like no other player, and as a coach i can see that hardnose attitude of his paying off. I think Rivera would be making a huge mistake letting Smith go.
You don't think Smith has earned the right to play for another team?
Anywhere else, and he would be talked about as a future HOF’er. He has earned the right to have another shot at the title. If anything, the Panthers haven’t earned the right to keep him.
And what makes you think he would be a good coach. If our WR’s have shown anything it is that Steve Smith can’t coach up, or mentor rookier at all. Maybe HS or kids league where he will automatically be respected. But not in the pro’s.
If God came down on Christmas Day/ I know exactly what He'd say/ He'd say "Oi!" to the punks/ and "Oi!" to the skins/ but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
I think he wants to be a winner with the Panthers, and is just frustrated at losing.
I don’t see him as the kind of prima donna WR who shouts, “Trade Me!”, and wants a ring more than anything else.
He has a great relationship with JR, talks to John Kasay when he needs counsel, or a cool head, and just doesn’t abide mediocrity well.
I expect he’ll give the new coaches, and the new players we’re sure to see, when it all shakes out (this will NOT BE the same roster next season), a fair chance to show they’ve improved. Until I hear a quote from him that he wants to go elsewhere, I’ll believe this is all media talk.
Again I agree
But I think he is a guy who needs to win the Big One. As hard as he’s worked and as long as he’s worked, I think he needs, and deserves another shot at validation. If we can’t give him that shot here, let him have it somewhere else.
If God came down on Christmas Day/ I know exactly what He'd say/ He'd say "Oi!" to the punks/ and "Oi!" to the skins/ but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
NO
The Panthers have stuck by Smith through his worst times, he should show the same respect to the team.
“If anything, the Panthers haven’t earned the right to keep him.”… Yes they have, its called a contract and he is still in it.
“If our WR’s have shown anything it is that Steve Smith can’t coach up, or mentor rookier at all.”…. Well, He tried telling Jarrett to improve his work ethics, some people you just cant tell anything to, they do what they want. Lafell & Gettis were not even starters half a season last season, they were switching around so much in the beginning who knew who would play week to week. That said, Jarrett & Gettis got better through the end of the season, how do you know Smith didnt help in that? Also Smith isnt getting paid to coach he has his own things to do to make himself better. If he were a paid coach he would have more time to coach. I think Smith had to train & study to get to his stage, he isnt the typical receiver in model form, i think thats stuff that can be taught & he may be able to teach it.
“Maybe HS or kids league where he will automatically be respected. But not in the pro’s.”…. I read that Revis from the Jets said Smith was the toughest (or 1 of the toughest) receiver to cover he ever faced. That sounds like respect to me.
I don't think anyone disagrees
but if he asks for a trade, does it make sense for us to force him to stick around?
Exactly...
When you do force a player to stick around, he’s going to be disgruntled. Probably a good 90% of the time, a disgruntled player will not give his best effort and play up to his ability – whether he intends to or not. This team itself has witnessed what such a disgruntled player looks like. And we (and said disgruntled player) all would have been better off if we had traded said player and let his predecessor move up to the starting position.
Fail - meant as a reply to myself (about forcing a player to stay). Not as a new comment. Apologies.
ugh
:)
Disclaimer: BusyBeingAwesome = Irony. And, on a side note. I miss you, Steve Beuerlein.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Feb 11, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Not the same guy in Rivera
Just because you were able to figure out the suddleties of Fox’s comments to media doesn’t mean that you can apply the same meanings to Rivera. He’s a completely different guy. Maybe he’s just being a little hesitant to say anything definitive before the CBA is done. There really is nothing they can do until it is done so why should he go out and make proclaimations.
IMO Different guy, different meanings to what he says.
The panthers are honestly better off just keeping him
His trade value has to be in the toilet after having the most dropped catches of any receiver this season (yes, that’s probably Clausen’s fault, but someone making a trade for him is gonna try to trade less for that fact). and in reality, the Panthers should just convince him to retire here. Then retire his number and let his legacy live on past him. Smitty has been more than a player, he’s been the Morale of the Panther’s fan base. I think thats worth throwing some money his way, or whatever makes him happy.
Besides, i’ve heard he’s actually wanted to play Slot more, and he would still be able to dominate there. So its not like he’s just dead weight.
Rivera/Chudzinski '12
most dropped catches of any receiver this season (yes, that’s probably Clausen’s fault,
How is dropped catches Clausen’s fault? He is a WR his job is to catch the football. He drops it thats his own damn fault. Many times he would flip out wanting the ball only to drop it when it finally came his way. Im not defending Jimmy just saying blaming a QB for dropped balls is a bit of a stretch
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Feb 11, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting
but I won’t put too much credit into any of this. He does sound like he’s trying to impose his leadership, but that doesn’t mean Smith is out. Of ALL our players, I would think Smith the most likely to impress during the off-season.
When a team goes 2-14, and you barely have the faith of fans in QB or team, the worst thing to do would be to take away one of the veterans/most experienced. If it happens, I’ll say more on that day, but Smith is still a Panther as of “right now”.
If Smith does leave, that’s a huge hole in our WRs… and I really want Fairley as our #1, not Green… if this happens, it’s going to be a mess. One thing to think about: IF Rivera is serious, then it’s obvious that he’s not too sure of this next season. So when it all goes downhill, he doesn’t want Smith around to lay any blame on him; he wants Smith outta Carolina at the same time that Fox left. All Smith has to talk bad about is Fox, about those years. Correct, or just stupid thoughts? :P
Taylor Yates for #1 pick!!!!!!!!!!!
We are gonna get Cam Newton
… And smitty is gonna have a huge chip on his shoulder and be unstoppable…. that is all
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