Could Salary Cap Dictate Panthers 1st Pick?
by PanthersRoar on Dec 29, 2011 3:10 AM EST
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The Panthers are currently drafting at #9, and if they win Sunday they could even move a few spots higher. So here is how nfldraftscout.com ranks (without reguard to the teams drafting at those positions) the best players around those draft spots.
8. DT Devon Still (6-4, 310, 5.06-40) - he can play 4-3 NT, 4-3 DT, and 3-4 DE.
9. G David DeCastro (6-5, 312, 5.22-40) - a great LG.
10. CB Dre Kirkpatrick (6-2, 192, 4.49-40)
11. DE Quinton Coples (6-6, 285, 4.76-40)
12. WR Michael Floyd (6-3, 224, 4.54-40)
13. OT Jonathan Martin (6-6, 305, 5.29-40)
Given those choices, CB Dre Kirkpatrick or DT Devon Still might be the Panthers top pick, but thanks to Rick Bates' great post on the salary cap, it might push them toward another decision. With only 37 players under contract for 2012, and counting the other 16 roster spots, 10 at the minimum rookie salary, plus signing 6 draft picks, leaves the Panthers $4,280,000 over the 2012 salary cap. Now OT Gary Williams and TE Gary Barnidge have also signed for 2012, placing the Panthers around $6.1 million over the cap. So even if the Panthers find a way to cut that $6.1 million, that leaves no cap space to re-sign any of their own free agents (my guess at what it might cost), TE Jeremy Shockey ($3 mil), G/C Geoff Hangartner ($1.5 mil), MLB Dan Connor ($1 mil), WR Legedu Naanee ($1 mil), RG Geoff Schwartz ($1.1 mil), DE/OLB Antwan Applewhite ($1 mil), QB Derek Anderson ($1 mil), G Jordan Senn ($800,000), LS J. J. Jansen ($700,000), G Mackenzy Bernadeau ($1 mil), TE/FB Richie Brockel ($400,000), DT Frank Kearse ($400,000), CB R. J. Sanford ($400,000), LB Thomas Williams ($400,000), LB Jason Phillips ($400,000), and WR Seyi Ajirotutu ($400,000), and I tried to estimate their re-signing cost on the low end.
So how can the Panthers create more cap room? Cut or trade players? Some of they players will cost more to cut or trade than to keep, DE Charles Johnson ($11 mil more), RB DeAngelo Williams ($11.9 mil more), C Ryan Kalil ($8.8 mil more), MLB Jon Beason ($10.5 mil more), QB Cam Newton ($7,259,000 mil more), TE Greg Olsen ($875,000), OLB James Anderson ($4,190,000 mil more), also S Charles Godfrey ($1.2 mil more), Some other players will also cost more to cut than to keep once the cost of their replacement is figure in, even at a minimum rookie contract, K Orlando Mare (cost around $200,000 more), OLB Thomas Davis (cost around $100,000 more), DT Terrell McClain (cost around $380,000 more), DE Greg Hardy (cost around $365,000 more), NT Sione Fua (cost around $285,000 more), CB Brandon Hogan (cost around $285,000 more), and WR Kealoha Pilares (cost around $50,000 more).
Here is a list of Panthers players who can be cut or traded that would save salary cap space, add around $350-400,000 for the cost of minimum salary replacement.
$7,750,000 - WR Steve Smith (Pro Bowl)
$7,500,000 - LT Jordan Gross (Pro Bowl 1st alternate)
$5,700,000 - LG Travelle Wharton
$2,511,250 - RB Jonathan Stewart
$1,550,000 - P Jason Baker
$1,550,000 - CB Chris Gamble
$1,076,000 - RT Jeff Otah
$890,000 - TE Ben Hartsock
$866,666 - DT Ron Edwards
$770,000 - CB Darius Butler
$700,000 - S Sherrod Martin
$700,000 - RB Mike Goodson
$700,000 - CB Captain Munneryln
$615,000 - DT Andre Neblett
$594,182 - S Jordan Pugh
$589,500 - WR David Gettis
$586,053 - DE Greg Hardy
$490,000 - QB Jimmy Clausen
$465,000 - CB Josh Thomas
$446,500 - WR Armanti Edwards
$410,000 - WR Brandon LaFell
Of the big money savers (over $1 million in savings), WR Steve Smith, LT Jordan Gross, RB Jonathan Stewart, and CB Chris Gamble are safe from being cut or traded, with RT Jeff Otah a maybe, and after that it's just the small fry left. The Panthers will have their work cut out for them trying to re-negotiate contracts downward, to get under the salary cap.
The only certain candidate to either have his contact reduced by several million dollars, or be cut, and save $5.7 million is LG Travelle Wharton. Juggle the numbers any way you wish, but it looks like Wharton may have to go. That's what I mean by the title. Being almost forced to cut Wharton, it might force the Panthers to draft G David DeCastro with their 1st round pick, to replace Wharton. That is unless they decide to re-sign RG Geoff Schwartz an G/C Geoff Hangartner (moving him to LG to replace Wharton), use OT Gary Williams to replace Wharton, or draft a G in later rounds, and expect him to start.
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Losts of numbers my freind and much to consider.
However I think with the new rookie scale it would matter little at whom they would pick. Gone are the days when an overpriced/overhyped DT or QB could hold a team hostage for a better contract. I would wager regradless the position our pick will come at about the same price as last years.
Hurney has ever been careful with the wagers, books, and contracts. THe only times he overextended himself baldy were for Wahle and Lucus.
One thing is for certain this off season will be much mroe entertaining the last.
I am a proud supporter of troll hunting.
You are over thinking the amount of Cap space the panthers have
In the NFL there are so many ways to manipulate the cap, they could take D. Williams 11.9 mil and turn it into a bonus and spread it out over the other 4 years of the deal. Now I am not saying Panthers have enough room to go out and sign every high priced FA, but they have plenty to keep all of their own players, sign draft picks, and get a mid priced guy like Pat Simms.
Optimistic
That this group of guys like what is happening and are willing to sacrifice a bit to be a part of an actual team.
by disgruntled1 on Dec 29, 2011 10:07 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Haha your name is disgruntled1
I’m guessing you’re rarely optimistic;-). Haha, I will say there have been lots of reports about players saying they would like to stay with the Panthers even if it meant taking a pay cut. We’ll see how it goes this offseason but I’d venture that multiple players have their contracts restructured (Wharton, Smith, Gross)
"One step at a time"
Also, i am pretty sure Hurney is not a dumb accountant or GM
He knows that in 2012 we would have to sign free agents or ours or other teams and sign draft picks sp he wouldn’t handicap his own teams cap space. If this is the case, then he really needs to be fired or taken off handling salaries. This is what they get paid for, get/draft good(great) players and manage them under the salary cap.
by panthertillidrop on Dec 29, 2011 11:14 AM EST reply actions
Hurney doesn't actually manage the cap.
I’d have to google the guy’s name, but we have a Salary Cap specialist.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Well, full disclosure...
Marty was a salary cap specialist himself, so I’m sure he at least in conscious of the situation.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
Technically he's a journalist.
But yes he’s worked in a Front Office for a long time. He knows the ins and outs of his job and what those around him do.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
According to charlotteobserver.com, the
panthers will let Dan Connor test the free agent market. No way I see him staying as a back up when he can start/ make more money. All of them should restructure their deals.
by adam carter on Dec 29, 2011 11:26 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I'm not as upset about this loss
As I would have been last season. We would have to pay him more than a backups salary, his play this season hasn’t been as great (could be due to the new system and lock-out) & we have a stable of LB’s that should be pretty deep come next season.
"One step at a time"
The Wharton deal has been on my mind since I posted the original story...
In 2008, Wharton signed a 6-year deal worth $36 million, including a $12 million signing bonus. The bonus he got at signing is still hitting the cap as pro-rated over the 6 years. The deal was back-loaded in terms of salary, meaning the last two years he’s making over $5.7m per year in salary. That’s top-three guard salary. I like Travelle as a player, but top-3?
This is a guy that does his job well — he’s consistent, durable, doesn’t commit dumb penalties, and rarely gets beat. He also doesn’t make you say, “Wow, look at that block by Wharton” very often.
There is a decision to be made here, and I agree with PR that a trade may be in the offing. Wharton would have to re-structure his contract to make a trade work. He’s a good starting guard for most any team not known as the ‘Aints’, and any draft pick we could obtain would be icing on top of the cap savings.
With DeCastro (the best guard prospect either in decades or since Maurkice Pouncey, depending on where you’re reading) likely available at our pick, it would be a good selection. Another option would be to go with an OT with the skillset to play guard for awhile. In summary, I agree with PR that the salary cap impacts how we draft.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
I would keep Wharton and excuse the overpayment in the name of protecting Cam Newton.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
There isn't a decision to be made here.
Wharton is very good at his job. We will not trade him away. At best we get him to restructure his contract. At worst we keep him on his current deal.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Even if DeCastro or Martin are rated as BPA when we pick?
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Even if?
You realise it takes five guys to form an O-line, right? I’d take DeCastro in a heartbeat AND keep Wharton.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Yes. Travelle is severely underrated.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Dec 29, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
I'm inclined to agree with that statement, although he...
Graded out as one of the worst left guards in football by Pro Football Focus
(from rotoworld, 12/5/11)
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
That probably has something to do with his style.
He doesn’t really dominate people at the point of attack. He just kind of neutralizes them. He’s not a bull in the running game. He doesn’t pancake people in the passing game. He’s just very steady.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
yeah,i dont see wherethey come up with that at all....
"Don't tell me about the pain, just bring me the baby" Cam Newton
by braves&panthers4ever on Dec 29, 2011 3:07 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Don't forget....
Don’t forget when Gross went down 2 years ago, Travelle filled in and performed very well. Some analysts were even calling it a “pro-bowl” caliber season. How many guards in the NFL have that kind of talent (athleticism, footwork, etc.). His pay is commensurate with his value to serve as both a guard and tackle.
To add, I don’t see a need to take a lineman in round 1 now that Schwartz is back and Bell has a year under his belt. Don’t forget that Bell is more of a mauling guard than a tackle, and Schwartz was being hyped for his quiet but consistent play at right tackle toward the end of 2009 before the injury in 2010. The serviceable Handgartner can be resigned as a stop gap and to compete.
Now I ask… Why draft a lineman in round 1 when we could take a playmaker to compliment Cam or fill a definite need on defense (CB, LB)? 30% increased performance on defense this past season and we likely make the playoffs. Offensive line is important but is not a need to get us back to the SB.
by Jon Zimmerman on Dec 30, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Wharton is not a LT. He can't handle the speed rush.
That’s why he was moved inside to guard.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Agreed
As for OL, I think if we draft another late round developmental tackle to go with our current roster we’ll be fine. I may be delusional, but I think Otah will be good to go for next season. And if not, Schwartz/Bell are good fill-ins.
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 31, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
wharton is probably the most under rated player on our team
I also like schwartz to be fair, and the more I think about it… The more decastro is the only offensive player I would draft at our pick. The guy is a force and with all respect to james I disagree that all guards are just tackles who aren’t athletic enough. An elite tackle won’t definitely make an elite guard. The point of my rambling is that whilst schwartz and piggy are good.. Decastro would make our o-line truly scary. Still think we should go D though
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Dec 29, 2011 2:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The further down we draft, the easier it will be to find a defensive player worth the pick, too.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Dec 29, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
I just can't justify taking a OG in the 1st round
Pouncey is a C, and was taken at the bottom of round 1. He is a good player, but I don’t see him as any better than Kalil, who we drafted in round 3. Interior O-lineman are easier to find than OT’s. I could justify taking an OT early (top 10), but would never take an OG…I remember several years ago Ditka and the Saints took Chris Naeole OG from Colorado in the middle of round 1. He was supposed to be a great prospect. Not so much…
I was just about to post this
It’s hard for me to wrap my head around drafting a guard with (probably) a top ten selection. Any OG in the first three rounds is top five at the position for the draft usually.
"What do want to say to those critics now?"
"Just sit back and watch the show." -Cam Newton
Pouncy was taken the middle of round 1
We took Khalil in the 2nd round. Pouncey is very overrated. Those pro bowl selections are on pure hype.
Welcome to the Cam Cave
Pick 59...almost a 3rd
Thanks for the correction sir!
I think we have enough depth that you could see Wharton cut/traded.
Schwartz/Hangartner/Bell/Williams/draft pick, if we need to free up money we could definitely roll with that I think. If we can keep Wharton I’m all for it, but if he leaves it won’t be the worst thing in the world imo.
Yes I'm a dude.
Okay, after further research, I'm now officially out of panic mode...
2011 and 2012 are considered transition years, meaning we can play funny money games with “dead money” like signing bonuses already paid. Found this at FootballsFuture (emphasis mine):
2011 and 2012 are both “Transition Years” by the General Provisions of the deal. Which means 5.c.1. is NOT fully effected until LEAGUE YEAR 2013. During the Transition Years teams can “cut and play” with any bonus that is counting against their salary cap by reflexively changing its status between EARNED and UNEARNED, thereby changing Transition Years Salary Cap Dead Money into “soft money” and moving it from a direct above the line charge against the salary cap to a below the line off-set for an “earned bonus” charged to the previous year.
The previous League Year (2010) was an UNCAPPED year, allowing a team to move the remaining part of any Sigining/Performance Bonus from “unearned” counting against this year’s salary cap to “earned” counting against last years salary cap. This applies to any contract signed and structured 2009 and earlier. The Preemption also allows teams during the Pre-2011 League Year Period to “cut and dump dead money” from veteran contracts and roll it front to back in any number of fashions as long as the equation of the salary cap balances at the opening of League Year 2013. In this way teams are effectively able to lose all the dead money and restart the Salary Cap clock
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Wow!
Trying to read that just made me realize how dumb I am. :-)
by disgruntled1 on Dec 29, 2011 2:27 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Basically...
They can take any and all signing bonus money from contracts signed prior to 2009 and count it as part of the 2010 “cap”.
At least that’s how I interpreted it.
Basically any dead money prior to this year can be taken off the cap. I don’t know how much money it’s going to free up, but it makes sense now why JR gave so many big contracts to our core group. He knew what he was doing all along.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I dont know if this helps us
who is dead weight that we can shift there that was signed prior to 2009?
It confuses me a little bit…because I wonder if the article means that in 2010 we could do that with people prior to 2009, or if in 2011 we can do it with people signed last year.
I don’t know exactly…but I hope it’s the new contracts.
If not…then Gross, Wharton, and Smitty are three people who were signed in 2009 who could have money moved to 2010’s uncapped year.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Smitty's deal was in '07, Wharton's in '08, Gross' in '09 (per rotoworld).
So, backing the signing bonus up to 2010 for just Wharton and Smitty would save around $4.1 mil, if the figures I have are correct.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
in = prior to....lol
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Oh, Thank God.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 30, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
I could be mistaken
but I’m pretty sure it won’t cost the Panthers anything to cut Thomas, they structured his contract in a way that they can walk away from after this season.
I think it’s a near certainty that Clausen and Goodsen are gone after this season.
Haha, I noticed that right away and (ignoring the rest of the article) scrolled straight down to see if anyone else noticed that.
I was gonna ask, “Who’s Greg Gross?”
If we are picking at 12 and Kalil, Blackmon and Dre K are gone. I’d just take a playmaking WR like Floyd OR Reiff
by PantherTrain on Dec 29, 2011 5:51 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I don't think
Reiff has confirmed if he will enter the draft yet though I wouldn’t mind having him a Panther depending on who else is available there.
"One step at a time"
I'm assuming that if Kirkpatric is gone so is Claiborne
in that case my next choice would probably be Brown
I'd still take Jenkins over Claiborne and Kirkpatrick.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
To be perfectly honest guys, the more I think about it the more I don’t mind us trading down. When you really think about it, our only big need is CB. Beason and Davis will be back so you can cross LB off the list. Otah, Schwartz and Williams will be back so you can cross olineman off the list, we really don’t need a WR or TE. Edwards, Neblett, Kearse, Shirley, McClain. We are stacked at DT. Hardy, CJ, Kaiser, Applewhite. DE is fine.
The bottom line is CB is the biggest area of need. I’d be willing to trade our 2nd rounder so we could move down and take Claiborne.
by PantherTrain on Dec 29, 2011 5:56 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Let us know when Thomas D can stay healthy
more than 1-2 games? Applewhite is a free agent. The dt’s are stacked, only playing 3-5 ( i’m talking about neblett, kearsamend shirley) games doesn’t give any real indication they are longterms staters. But is serviceable to start when needed. They need another DEnd who weighs atleast 260-270 to rush/ support the run. Schwart is a free agent as well.
by adam carter on Dec 29, 2011 6:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree with some of this
I do like the players we have at most positions and dont think we have many needs. but you are over exaggerating them a little. I am one of the few that have faith in Beason, Davis, and Otah to come back healthy but it is hard to depend on those guys given the circumstance. At the same time it is not advisable to pick someone in the first round as a back up plan. CB is a need but not a major one. I would love to get Claiborne but i wouldnt be willing to trade up for him
If we're getting either Kalil or Claiborne, I'd have no reservations trading up...
For anyone else, I’d say no thanks.
We could trade next year's first!
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Dec 29, 2011 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Or we can trade Cam for the 2nd overall pick and draft Blackmon! :: mach man’s voice::: snap into that ohhhhh yeeeeea
by PantherTrain on Dec 29, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
Wait... Your allowed to do that?!!!!
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 30, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
That would be trading up, not down
"What do want to say to those critics now?"
"Just sit back and watch the show." -Cam Newton
Re-structure contracts:
DE Charles Johnson ($11 mil more) to 7Mills, not worth 11m
RB DeAngelo Williams ($11.9 mil more), 5mills, nor worth 11.9 mills
MLB Jon Beason 7 mills (did nothing in 2011)
It's almost impossible to renegotiate a contract the year after they sign it
Beason is the only one that possible because he was injured but i dont see it happening. I could see Davis and Wharton renegotiating but thats it. with those 2 renegotiating we could save like 6 mil
All three if those were just signed this offseason
Not really much chance to restructure them. Beason got early on, but he’s still Jon Beason. I don’t think he had missed a game until this year, so there’s no reason to believe he’s injury prone. Charles Johnson has been worth the money. He’s been the same as Peppers but at half the price. And I think DWill has done enough this year and over the course of his career to be making the money he’s making.
Johnson isnt exactly half the price
he’s only a few mil cheaper, i still think he’s a little over paid though
No night-mare lol. Is Eric Norwood even doing
anything this year? Clausen and Goodson are waisting a roster spot, trade him for and Goodson for a 5th-7th round pick if possible.
by adam carter on Dec 29, 2011 11:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was speaking financially
Mare would actually cost us money to cut and we wouldnt save anything by cutting Norwood and it’s not like we will find someone better for league minimum
I read someone comment stating that the panthers
could save $2-3 million by cutting night-mare. Don’t know if it’s true, if so was just mentioning him. There’s always someone at his position, thru draft or free agent signing who could replace Eric N. Just finding the right guy is key.
by adam carter on Dec 30, 2011 12:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think it would cost us an extra 3 or 4 mil because a lot of his contract is guaranteed
I have no idea why they gave an inconsistent 38 year old the most money for a kicker and guaranteed most of it
I don't think we are as in trouble as some think
Right now we have 70 people counting towards cap and are 3 mil under… I don’t see us having any problems not to mention Smitty will be extended and td either cut or restructured. Everyone tries to guess but we don’t know what most of the contracts look like or how they apply to the cap. For example one I did find is Godfrey he only gets 700k in 2012 but it jumps to 5 mil in 2013….. I think our front office foresaw the cap situation and has everything under control.
by Josh Isitt on Dec 30, 2011 4:13 AM EST via Android app reply actions
Actually, The Cap Is Even Tighter Than The Article States, It Estimated A 2012 Salary Cap Of $125 Million, But The 2011 Cap Limit (Which The Has Told Teams Not To Expect Any Increase) Is Only $120,375,000, $4.625 Million Less Than The Amount Calculated
With a cap of $120,375,000, they will likely be at around $118.5 million, with just 39 players under contract for next season, and they still have to fill out an 80 man roster.
Signing the 2012 draft picks will likely cast around $3.54 million, and then the 8 rookie minimum contracts need to get to 53 players will be around $3.12 million, a total of $4.81 million over the cap, without re-signing any of their own free agents (or new free agents), and no room to sign replacements when players are injured during next season.
by PanthersRoar on Dec 30, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
There's no way to know what the actual number is until they release it; but you're right, it could be closer to $120m.
Hurney’s going to have to rework a few contracts (definitely Davis, probably Smitty), and I think they’ll cut/trade Goodson, Baker, and Hartsock. Who knows if they will re-work or trade Wharton, but I would expect something there.
The main thing to keep in mind is that the new TV deal comes up in 2013, so we just have to hold on until the cap jumps.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
I expect
Smitty to get a 4 year extention, probably saving us around 2 mil for this year. Davis to rework his, saving around 4-5 mil, Goodson, Baker, Thomas, and Hartsock will be cut
I like those moves.
That would be around 10 mil. Good enough to resign most of our own FA’s.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 31, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know how much the rest of the CSR universe...
likes this shit, but at least there’s two of us ;-) The thing is, it DOES impact the team’s ability to bring players back and/o add new pieces. The economic realities of the salary cap may not be sexy, but they’re very important.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
I sure hope our coaches are on point in the off-season
because it doesn’t seem like many new faces will be coming to Charlotte. After reading this article and all the comments it’s a foregone conclusion, IMHO, that we are going to lose some fan-favorites and retain some low-budget guys. At the same time, JR was a huge part of the CBA negotiations and between him and Hurney’s background working in front office’s for quite some time, I’m certain they have every idea what they’re going to do. JR doesn’t strike me as the type to not have enough foresight to see this coming and I’m certain he would not have allowed/made Hurney give big money to all our guys this off-season not thinking we’d be okay. While some of the older guys can expect to have their contracts re-worked, I still believe we’ll be okay and our core will remain in-tact. The key to successful teams is that the core is in-tact. Teams like Wash and Philly that try buying talent see it blow up in their faces in the end.
We’ll be ok. It is a little cumbersome but so far JR has yet to lead us in the wrong-direction with coaching and personnel the past year or so. I’m sure we’ll be good. Now, 2013 when Stewie is due for his pay raise may create another issue, or 2014 when Cam is due for $100m+ contract, we’ll talk :-)
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