The Folly in Losing for a Draft Pick: A Draft Review
Every season in the NFL, a sizeable portion of the thirty-two teams find themselves out of the race for the championship and looking forward to next year. The excitement of getting an elite college prospect gives a glimmer of hope to many fans for the future of their teams. Some fans, in their desire to improve, even prefer that their team loses more in the end so that they have a chance to get a “better” college prospect. This year because of the expectations for Andrew Luck, the idea of losing for draft status went to a whole new level, even becoming embodied in the catch phrase “Suck for Luck”. Sometimes these picks work out, sometimes they don't. With our #1 pick last year of Cam Newton we struck draft gold, and are finding out that we may have a once in a generation prospect that has the potential to revolutionize his position. To be honest, I did somewhat pull for us to end up with the number one pick in last year’s draft. It appears to have worked out for the Panthers thus far, but how often is this the case around the league?
I wish to briefly examine the top five picks in the NFL draft over the last few years, and view the effect said picks or players have had on their respective teams. The question is: How often does a losing team getting a high draft pick achieve success (think playoffs) in the near future? Bonus question: Have the Panthers been able to find quality player s in the first round outside of the top 5 picks? We all know about last year’s draft, plus it was only last year, so let’s start off with 2010.
2010 Draft
1 St. Louis Rams- Sam Bradford QB: after some mild success last year, this year’s Rams will again finish in the bottom 3 of the NFL. They have not reached the playoffs in 7 seasons in the relatively weak NFC West.
2 Detroit Lions- Ndamukong Suh DT: potential HOF player, team will finally make the playoffs this year for the first time in twelve seasons
3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers- Gerald McCoy DT: the Bucs looked pretty good last year, but will likely finish in the bottom 5 of the NFL this year
4 Washington Redskins - Trent Williams: Washington is again at the bottom of a mediocre NFC East this year. They have finished last in the NFC East in 5 of the last 6 seasons.
5 Kansas City Chiefs - Eric Berry SS: KC made the playoffs last year in a weak division, but seem to epitomize the idea of a "up and down" team. They have finished with a winning record only twice in the last 6 seasons. This year their head coach lost his job.
Panthers First Round Pick: None
2009 Draft
1 Detroit Lions- Matthew Stafford QB: potential Pro-Bowler, repeat offender, see above comments on the Lions
2 St. Louis Rams - Jason Smith T: repeat offender, see above comments on the Rams
3 Kansas City Chiefs- Tyson Jackson DE: repeat offender, see above comments on the Chiefs
4 Seattle Seahawks- Aaron Curry LB: this team infamously made the playoffs last year (and won) by winning their division with a record of 7-9, however this player is no longer a part of the team
5 New York Jets- Mark Sanchez QB: the Jets traded up to this spot, so they do not evaluate into the present exercise
Panthers First Round Pick: None
2008 Draft
1 Miami Dolphins - Jake Long T: another "up and down" team that has lately been more down. They have had only one winning season in the past six.
2 St. Louis Rams- Chris Long DE: a repeat offender, see above comments on the Rams
3 Atlanta Falcons- Matt Ryan QB: Ah, a team that struck draft gold. The Falcons have been solid playoff contenders for the last few years, making the playoffs three of the last four seasons.
4 Oakland Raiders- Darren McFadden: though they have a shot this year, it has been almost a decade since the Raiders have made the playoffs. This year they have the chance to finish with their first winning season in the past nine.
5 Kansas City Chiefs- Glenn Dorsey DT: repeat offender, see above comments on the Chiefs
Panthers First Round Pick: #13 Jonathan Stewart , #19 Jeff Otah
2007 Draft
1 Oakland Raiders- JaMarcus Russell QB: a variety of jokes could be inserted here, but I’ll just say that he had a love for what’s known in the south/southwest as syrup (aka codeine) more than studying his playbook
2 Detroit Lions- Calvin Johnson WR Georgia Tech: monster talent, see above comments for the Lions
3 Cleveland Browns Joe Thomas OT Wisconsin: The Browns will go nine seasons since last making the playoffs, compiling a winning record in only one of the last six seasons
4 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Gaines Adams DE: tragically, this young man had an untimely demise
5 Arizona Cardinals Levi Brown OT: The last two seasons have been rough, but the Cardinals made playoff runs in the preceding two, including a Super Bowl appearance
Panthers First Round Pick: #25 Jon Beason MLB
2006 Draft
1 Houston Texans- Mario Williams DE: the Texans have finally clinched a playoff spot this year for the first time in the franchise’s eleven seasons. Williams has missed a good portion of this season.
2 New Orleans Saints- Reggie Bush RB: the Saints bounced back from the bottom and won the Super Bowl two seasons ago. Bush is no longer with the team.
3 Tennessee Titans-m Vince Young QB: Young is no longer with the team. They have reached the post-season twice in the six seasons since the Young pick was made.
4 New York Jets- D'Brickashaw Ferguson T: the Jets have been enjoying some success, and have reached the playoffs in three of the past five seasons.
5 Green Bay Packers - A.J. Haw k: In the six seasons since making this pick, the Packers have won the Super Bowl and only missed the playoff twice
Panthers First Round Pick: #27 DeAngelo Williams RB
In closing, I am not trying to make an argument that top 5 draft picks absolutely do not make a team better. With the talent level that a top picks brings in, the potential is always great. Many of the teams on the 2006 list are actually having good success. However, many of the teams bad enough to end up with a top 5 pick continue to find themselves bad enough to remain in that same situation. As evidenced by some of the Panthers picks, draft picks later in the first round can oftentimes be just as good. Draft picks anywhere in the first round are important building blocks to make a championship team.
In some aspects the draft can be the most exciting part of the season. Each year the rise and fall of prospects, potential stars, potential busts, and potential trades weave a story to which I look forward to and greatly enjoy. However, after reviewing the drafts over the past few years, I was actually a little surprised to find that the difference top five picks make in terms of a team’s overall success may be somewhat overrated. As a result, its best to win out, since difference making talent is infused throughout the first round…except for maybe when you have a once in a lifetime prospect waiting for you at the top of the draft.
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Winning, winning, winning.
It’s the only thing that matters, when the clock reaches 0:00 next week we should then evaluate where we are in the draft and go from there. Until that point, leave it all on the field.
"What do want to say to those critics now?"
"Just sit back and watch the show." -Cam Newton
take it from a Lions fan perspective
after watching a team that made me consider ironing my socks or washing my eye balls with bleach a better idea than watching my team. Winning trumps all… it solves all…. you want that feeling. You want to develop that habit. That habit of winning is what wins you games. Because in the NFL alot of times even the really good teams can lose half of their starting line up to injury but still win because of that mindset. Draft position should NEVER be on the minds of coaches or players. Lions did that for years and ONLY after cleaning house and hiring Martin Mayhew and Jim Schwartz has anything changed…. just saying. Who cares if you don’t have a perfect roster just find a way to win.
Lions needed new talent
When Dick Vermeil took over the Rams, they sucked. I heard he got rid of all but a handful of players from the time he took over to the Superbowl. I don’t know who he cut in order to bring in Warner, Faulk, Holt, Bruce, and others. The Lions, under Schwartz and Mayhew, brought in Suh, Johnson, Stafford…and Kevin Smith, Jahvid Best and Mikel LeShore. With all three healthy next year, the Lions will crush people running the ball. They also brought in Cliff Avril, Nick Fairley, Julian Peterson, Louis Delmas, etc. They needed talent cuz Millen was the worst GM ever, and they got it. They also got Pettigrew and Burleson. They got some real talent in Detroit.
The Panthers already had a lot of talent. The list goes on and on in Carolina. We needed a coach and a QB. Now we have both, and we’re about to start a whole new dynasty.
by usana_gaines on Dec 28, 2011 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
lions had some talen stockpiled.
from your list –
Johnson, avril, kevin smith, +both starting tackles were drafted by millen. drafting that high so often you are bound to hit sometimes. but getting a good coach to gel it all together and a QB to make it work is key.
not really talking about the Lions as much as i am refering to the mentality of losing for draft position
It just doesn’t work. It looks cool on a video game. But in real life drafting players takes more scouting and evaluation than it takes “where you pick”
I like how Smitty in his NFL network interview quoted Coach Rivera
Each player should be playing for the next three Sundays. This past one (Bucs), the upcomming one with the Saints, and the last weekend in September (start of 2012) season. I’m hoping the poll will stay at 100% on the winning.
by carolinapillpusher on Dec 26, 2011 8:02 PM EST reply actions
Players tend to quote their coaches.
Our guys used to say “It is what it is” a lot. And “We picked a bad day to have a bad day”.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I’m hoping the poll will stay at 100% on the winning.
Looks like PT ruined that for you. 1 vote against winning.
Well at least two have come out of the woodwork thus far,
I won’t name any names, though the things that have been said by others speaks for itself
by carolinapillpusher on Dec 26, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
Typically, teams that draft in the Top 5 have serious holes that one player isn't going to fix
Top 5 drafting teams are usually historically bad football teams. Exceptions are teams like the 2010 Panthers, who had a very solid core of talent but were missing the most important position on the field, which is of course the QB position.
Even with devastating injuries to the defense, CP has been competitive in 13 of 15 games this season, and with a play or two going different in the 4th quarter in those 13 games could easily be heading into week 17 at 12-3.
As for the winning vs losing for draft position, I’m of the firm opinion that there are very few “ELITE” players each year that can change a football team.
Here’s my opinion of those players for the years drafted
2011: Von Miller, AJ Green
2010: Ndamukong Suh, Eric Berry, Russel Okung
2009: Jason Smith, Andre Smith, Brian Orakpo
2008: Jake Long
2007: Adrian Peterson, Joe Thomas, Calvin Johnson
2006: D’Brickashaw Ferguson, Mario Williams
This coming draft, I’d say
2012: Andrew Luck, Matt Kalil, Justin Blackmon
What you’ll notice is Cam Newton wasn’t listed in 2011. He had his question marks. The Panthers took their chance, and it looks like it will pay off in spades for years to come.
What all that means, is there are very few “ELITE” guys each year, and if you aren’t in a position to draft one of those “can’t miss” guys, then the talent level of the next 8-10 guys aren’t that much different. You’ll still get a solid football player.
In 2012, luckily for the Panthers, the NFL is in an age and lack of talent transition at the QB position. The same as the 2011 draft, there will be reaches and QB’s taken high that will/should allow even better players to drop a spot or two and Carolina will get a good, solid football player, whether they draft 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th or 13th.
Wrapping Cam’s mind around another win is much more valuable to the 2012 and beyond Carolina Panthers than the difference in talent they could get from the 9th to 13th draft position.
Win the damn game!!
by FF Companion on Dec 26, 2011 9:44 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
You did a great job of saying one of the things I was getting at...
Outside of there being one or two super elite guys, the rest in the first round should all be relatively solid. Its just a matter of team personnel doing their homework, and making sure they got a guy who works for them. That’s why I hate giving up first round picks, especially for someone unproven. Even using our drafts as an example, with the benefit of hindsight:
#27 D. Will >/= #2Reggie Bush
#13 J. Stew >/= #4 Darren McFadden
#25 Jon Beason being better than a whole lot of people taken in that draft
As long as you have a pick in the first round and a solid front office, you should end up with a quality player.
by carolinapillpusher on Dec 26, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
I almost voted to lose, just to be facetious.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 27, 2011 12:12 AM EST reply actions
Btw, I didnt vote in the poll at all so it wasnt me that voted yes for losing. I will admit after the last few weeks I have been less and less focus about getting a good draft pick. I am a lot more for winning now as opposed to losing out for a good draft pick.
I am proud of you PT
Take comfort in the fact that either way, we can still get a pretty good player. Heck we didn’t get Beast until pick #25, or Kalil until the second round. Look how well those guys have worked out.
by carolinapillpusher on Dec 27, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
you are learning young padawan
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Dec 28, 2011 9:04 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Post
What isn’t mentioned in post is most important stat. Its the teams. Its hiring good coaches who put players in position to have success. Look no further than Panthers. Previous staff wanted to fit round pegs in square holes. Have you ever thought what Cam would have done with last staff. Cam would probably be on suicide watch as well as fans. Isn’t it funny that most teams that make playoffs about every year have player turnover just like bad teams. Post also shows you have to have good scouting dept. and GM. I am very confident with what we have now. These guys get it.
Win baby win!!!
I hope we beat the Saints… The draft will take care of itself when the time comes… We still have one game left this season and beating those damn Saints this weekend would finish our season on a high note… It would also send a message to the rest of the NFL for next year… The Panthers are the real deal and next year we WILL be a force to reckon with…
by MidnightDrifter on Dec 28, 2011 2:17 AM EST reply actions
I Need More Stats!
Love the draft talk. In this article we are looking at the 1-5 picks of the draft. I think our draft scenario is more of a 6-10 pick vs. an 11-15 pick. While reading draft articles from the “Advanced NFL Stats” site, I noticed the 11-15 picks have more success in the NFL than do the 6-10 picks. Not only this, but the trend clearly caries over into the second and third round. It’s a huge generality but just one more thing to consider. Finishing with a huge division win and a winning attitude AND drafting players with higher chances of success is something that sounds good to me.
who dat dem benn beaten by cam
Bloody saints and their annoying fanbase. They make me sick
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Dec 28, 2011 9:06 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Hmm intresting, over at ESPN.com they have a poll asking “if your team is out of the playoffs, do you want then to lay down in week 17 to secure a better draft pick?”. 56% said yes they want to lose the last game to secure good draft position while 44% said no they want to win out.
My opinion is, while me personally have changed my stance and want us to win out and especially beat the Saints and Brees, I think that it’s not entirely unreasonable that some fans want to lose in week 17 to secure a good draft pick.
Frankly you can make an argument on both sides and both sides are right. You have side A which are fans that think winning out is about pride and builds momentum for the next season then you have side B who says they want to lose out the last game so they can get a better draft pick and have another star player to build around for next season.
I guess my point is, both sides are understandable and I don’t think that the fans that would rather secure a good draft pick by losing the last game should be ridiculed because it’s understandable. Again me personally, I now want to win out and beat the saints ass.
by PantherTrain on Dec 28, 2011 10:06 AM EST via mobile reply actions
And again let me clarify, no im not “flip flopping” whatsoever and saying I now want to lose, I want nothing more but to beat the Saints, id be ecstatic to go 7-9 esoecially beating Brees. Im just being diplomatic and pointing out the argument for both cases is all. Again, just win baby!
by PantherTrain on Dec 28, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Like I said, it really depends on the scenario
Last year when it became apparent that we would be picking near the top of the draft, I did prefer that we lost so we could get the #1 pick. Specifically because I didn’t have a lot of faith in Clausen, and hoped to get another QB. Because of that, I understand “Suck for Luck”, especially for teams like the Browns and Dolphins who need a franchise QB. I don’t feel sorry for the Colts because they had their turn at a franchise QB, and them getting the #1 pick would only be by the fluke of Manning not playing for a season.
It worked out for us because now we got Cam. Outside of the one or two potential super-super elite guys in a draft, the rest of the first rounders can all be pretty good. So unless its for the #1 or #2 pick to get that clear-cut future Hall of Famer, losing is pointless because good players are found throughout the first-round and the rest of the draft. Losing tends to breed more losing, and an elite guy who are not one or two of the super-elite guys is not going to come in and break that cycle. That’s why you seem to find the same losing teams picking near the top of the draft every year.
To sum it up: Its ok to Suck for Luck (or Cam, or a potential HOF #1), but its foolish to Suck for anyone else.
"You know the new iPhone? It’s faster, more powerful and smarter. It’s revolutionary. Why can’t the quarterback be like that? Why can’t you be a big, tall, fast, quick, strong, smart, mobile quarterback who’s unstoppable?"
-Cam Newton
by carolinapillpusher on Dec 28, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, probably.
They have a chance at the 2 seed—if they win and SF losses.
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
Watching scoreboard
to see what is happening with San Fran. If San Fran struggling, the Aints are going to fight, but if the 9ers are destroying the Rams… starters are getting rested.
by disgruntled1 on Dec 28, 2011 1:40 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
People don't understand that drafting higher does not necessarily mean you get a better player
Anyone that knows anything about football would take a win over a couple spots in the draft.
Losing for draft position?
I’m a Panther’s fan. The end. I want them to win every contest they’re in, from pre to post season (obviously). I don’t watch or care about college football, I have a job, wife, kid, another on way, no time (not judging… just saying); so names of draft picks mean… nothing. Position in draft means nothing, this year is proof. All comes to coaching, otherwise we’d be 3-12 with the patchwork D they have running around out there… looking pretty good.
by disgruntled1 on Dec 28, 2011 11:33 AM EST via Android app reply actions
Now we had a Good QB the rest is easier.
between 8-16, still a lots of talents available but we need to find player that fits.
I read that Jags fans really want them to lose this week to the Colts, not so much to improve their draft position,
Rather to keep the Colts from getting Luck. LOL
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Honestly If I were the Jags I'd throw the game.
I’d rather finish 4-12 instead of 5-11 if it meant “The Next Peyton Manning” weren’t in my division for another 15 years.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
That is one of the few circumstances where I'd be okay with 'shutting it down.'
I like to think of myself as a one-man wolfpack.
So if neither team wants to win?
Tie?
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 28, 2011 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
lol
If it’s tied and they go to OT, and I’m the Jags…I tell Gabby to just pull a Dan Orlovsky and run out of the back of the end zone to give the Colts a safety, and their 3rd win.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Would it be suspicious if I asked him to do that all game?
“Gabbart starts from the 20, he drops back……he’s still dropping back……”
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Orlovsky's the Colts starting QB.
So he might beat Gabby to it…
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 29, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
lol I totally forgot about that
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
What's the record for most safeties in a game hahaha.
We could see it shattered.
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 29, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed !!
I’m sure that TB, NO, and ATL aren’t looking forward to facing Cam for the forseeable future !!!
Jim
They have got to be hating it.
I’ve been there. After Vick was let got from the falcons, I thought “Cool, now we’ll get a couple of easy seasons against them until they rebuild.” Then the dirty birds swipe Matt Ryan in the next draft and bounce right back without so much as a rebuilding year. Well, as they say, payback’s a beach.

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