A Look at the Panther's Free Agents, and the Draft Impact
by Rick Bates on Dec 26, 2011 2:41 PM EST
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I stumbled upon this list of pending Panther free agents (serious props to RocknRolla at Carolina Huddle... excellent research), and it seriously started me thinking about cap space, draft picks, and free agency in a whole new light. It would appear that the 2012 salary cap is not going to move up much, if any, and per Pat Y., the Panthers currently have the 3rd highest committed dollars against the 2012 cap.
We spent a lot last year to lock up our core players and bring in a few notable free agents (Shockey, Olsen, Naanee, etc.) So, it's not a terrible thing that we're a bit handcuffed this off-season. Then again, when looking at some of the names on the list below, it does make me wonder who will stay and who will go. The answer to this question, I think more than anything, will determine the Draft strategy for the 2012 draft. There are some tough decisions ahead for BAMF and Hurney, as I'm sure you'll agree when you see the list below... the jump.
First off, a quick primer on Free Agent categories (further explained here, for info-maniacs):
Unrestricted - Can negotiate and sign with any team
Restricted - Old owner can match any offer from another team, and can receive draft pick compensation if player leaves
Exclusive rights - Basically must work out a deal with the existing team (like a draft pick)
Panthers' 2012 Free Agents:
Unrestricted Free Agents
Jeremy Shockey, TE
Geoff Hangartner, OG
Dan Connor, MLB
Derek Anderson, QB
Legedu Naanee, WR
Antwan Applewhite, OLB
J.J. Jansen, LS
Jordan Senn, OLB
Mackenzy Bernadeau, OG
Richie Brockel, TE
Cletis Gordon, DB
Restricted Free Agent
Jason Phillips, LB
Geoff Schwartz, OT
Thomas Williams, OLB
Seyi Ajirotutu, WR
Exclusive Rights Free Agents
R.J. Stanford, DB
Frank Kearse, DT
The post goes on to provide extensive detail (very interesting) about current (non-FA) player salaries + likely bonuses; including the cap hit if we cut/trade them. I'm only going to mention a few, but go to the source if you want more. The first number is the projected salary commitment, while the number in parentheses is the cap hit if the Panthers cut or trade the player.
Here are the no-brainer cuts, from where I'm sitting:
Jason Baker, P...................$1,612,500 ($62,500) = $1,550,000 cap cut
Ben Hartsock, TE...............$1,040,000 ($150,000) = $890,000 cap cut
Sherrod Martin, S...............$936,000 ($236,000) = $700,000 cap cut (Free Agent in 2013)
Mike Goodson, RB...............$823,000 ($123,000 = $700,000 cap cut (Free agent in 2013)
That would give us a quick trim of $3,840,000 by my calculation.
Okay, now we're business men, and I'm giving you some big-money "head scratchers" to consider:
Jordan Gross, OT...............$9,500,000 ($2,000,000) = $7,500,000 cap cut
Steve Smith, WR................$9,450,000 ($1,700,000) = $7,750,000 cap cut (Free Agent in 2013)
Travelle Wharton, OG.........$8,100,000 ($2,400,000) = $5,700,000 cap cut
Jonathan Stewart, RB.........$2,611,250 ($100,000) = $2,511,250 cap cut (Free Agent in 2013)
Then, there's Thomas Davis:
Thomas Davis, OLB.............$5,900,000 ($5,600,000) .... Expect to restructure this deal.
Without some tough cuts (or Hurney magic), we won't be able to re-sign guys like Shockey, Senn, etc. I don't know yet how I feel about this, but I present a proposal for your consideration and discussion. Given these numbers and our current cap position, would you consider trading a 32-year-old Gross or 31-year-old Wharton, and move up for Matt Kalil?
Note: I was actually inspired by a comment James made on the open thread yesterday; something he had heard about how much the FO likes Kalil.
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We signed Barnidge and G. Williams to 1 year extensions in Dec.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Thanks Oldham... I took them off the list.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Also...
IIRC, Hines, Felton, Fields, and Wells have all been released.
Yep. I'm a female who religiously follows a football blog.
"When you get into coaching, you strive to be a Super Bowl-winning head coach. That’s what my goal is, to come here and become a Super Bowl-winning head coach and to sustain an atmosphere of winning." - Ron Rivera
I love you.
I mean, erm….Hines and Felton now play for the Colts.
Wells and Fields are FAs.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Thank you, Jamie. They have been expunged from the list.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
I think Gross is too goodd of a Panther to be traded.
And when I say a Panther I mean he’s a great locker room guy, player and does community work as well.
I think he’ll retire a Panther. As for Wharton I don’t think we downgrade our O-Line and risk ending up like Sam Bradford
Smitty’s not going anywhere unless we draft a WR & Sherrod Martin is better than anyone we can get as a FA or draft this year so I doubt we cut him.
CAM....CAAAAAAAAM
It's a two-part proposal that includes getting Matt Kalil. I don't think that's a downgrade.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
I agree with everrything you said
I would probably trade Wharton to move up for Kalil as long as that was all we have to give. Schwarts, Bell, and Hangartner (if we can resign him for cheap) are all fairly good guards. Then we could also see about moving Otah over to guard where he may be able to dominate (like Leonard Davis did in Dallas for a while) We would get a double benefit. improving our out side protection, and adding some youth to the line.
Gross-Bell-Kalil-Otah-Kalil sound great to me
Which team would want a 32 year old gross with
his salary to get Matt Kalil? It will take more than that get Kalil here, maybe swap 1st and a conditional 3rd round pick in 2013 lol?
by adam carter on Dec 26, 2011 3:20 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Nobody that has a shot at drafting Kalil that's for sure.
Gross is here for his career (or the vast majority of it). I wouldn’t be surprised if Wharton and Gross signed new deals to help us lower our salary cap number, but earned themselves more guaranteed money.
How close are we to the cap btw?
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I think $1.8-$3.4 under the cap.
by adam carter on Dec 26, 2011 3:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think that Martin stays on. There aren't any major upgrades to be made at Safety via Free Agency or the Draft.
If we draft a guy in the Top 2 rounds to play Safety for us, that Safety is still a rookie with no experience in Sean McDermott’s scheme, let alone the NFL. It’s just not cost effective for next year.
And as far as Gross goes, Nobody would be involved with a Kalil for Gross trade due to age, potential, and cost. Wharton however, might be restructured in order to save cap.
And I don’t see how we could pay Smitty less money, considering the massive production he has put up this year; it would have to be of his own ambition, and I don’t see Smitty giving up his last big paycheck to save a few million dollars in cap space.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 3:34 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Off topic but...
Ron Rivera’s presser is up at the Panthers website. It’s an interesting watch. Talks about the win, Chris Gamble, the team’s future, DTs , injury concerns, Chudzinski and Shula departing concerns, Jeff Otah’s progress, etc.
http://www.panthers.com/media-vault/videos/Ron-Rivera-Presser/2e69f85e-df11-4b73-8484-dee773218f81
"Hope for the best plan for the worst"
"They laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at them because they're all the same"
by Efury on Dec 26, 2011 3:35 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I just saw it, and it was a pretty good presser.
Rivera also hinted that DT wouldn’t be a big need this offseason.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Yup, this presser gives us a bit of a feel of what's going through the organizations mind at the time.
With the pieces that we have in place and the others coming back, you get the feeling that Ron Rivera isn’t really as concerned about the team’s needs because given the opportunity to work with guys he can maximize their abilities with good coaching.
"Hope for the best plan for the worst"
"They laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at them because they're all the same"
Yeah, that's the feeling I got also.
I think Rivera puts an emphasis on what this organization is all about, building through the draft, signing low key free agents, and hard work that breeds improvement.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
So in other words, we are drafting Blackmon? Yay :) jk
by PantherTrain on Dec 26, 2011 4:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
That's disappointing
A couple good weeks at the end of the season doesn’t mean our DL situation is fixed. It’s just as big of an issue as its always been.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Dec 27, 2011 11:51 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhy can't I get a job in the media?!
The questions from these ‘journalists’ are awful.
Rivera is actually very good at expanding on his points, but he’s hardly being directed by the journalists.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
What did he say about gamble lol?
by adam carter on Dec 26, 2011 4:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He said that he along with some other players on the team were definitely deserving of going to the Pro Bowl.
..and that he has been doing an outstanding job all season and also mentioned that players are starting to buy into the system. Oh and that if the team had more success early on, players like Gamble would probably get more recognition.
"Hope for the best plan for the worst"
"They laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at them because they're all the same"
Oh thank you for the update. I still doubt gamble
would have gotten recognition, he isn’t a house hold name outside of Charlotte NC that is.
by adam carter on Dec 26, 2011 4:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That guy is a Buckeye
All Buckeye fans know who he is….and there are a lot of those around.
Yeah but once a team starts to get more recognized...
then they start to take more notice on other players. Think about it, we have the explosive offense that can draw in audiences and analysts and if we had played better defense then ppl would start wondering “hey, that defense is playing pretty good as well, I wonder who’s leading it” then they see the numbers and take more notice. He’s definitely getting some recognition from some but not as much as it could have been because of the overall performance of the Defense. It wouldn’t hurt if Gamble took better advantage of his interception opportunities either.
"Hope for the best plan for the worst"
"They laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at them because they're all the same"
Reading over our FA's, I saw at least 10+ guys who we need/should bring back.
Shockey-Hangartner- Connor (possibly)- Derek Anderson (possibly)- Applewhite- Jansen- Senn-Brockel- Phillips- Schwartz- T.Williams- Kearse.
I estimate that it would take around 8-10 million dollars in salary next year to sign those guys back to our squad. Not to mention we have to sign our draft picks (including a top 12 draft pick.)
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 3:49 PM EST reply actions
We can't move up for Kalil
This just isn’t in the realm of possibility. I am sure the FO of Panthers likes M Kalil, just like every other FO in the NFL.
Steve Smith needs to sign a extension for some flexibility. Stewart and Williams need to both be given some thought because long term you can’t keep both. These are situations that need to be assessed this off season to be proactive instead of kicking can down the road.
Get rid of Derek Anderson, Shockey as well at this point if we want to keep Barnidge.
Oh yea, we can get the same or better than Mare for league minimum.
Coaching system has started to gel, we don’t need to over pay for many of these UFA’s at all….. Dan Conner being possible exception.
Don't think it matters. IMO he will be shown the door. I think it would be a nice chunk of change on the cap though
"Success in anything we do in life is like building a house. Your talents are the bricks. You heart is the foundation. If you don’t have the foundation, all the talent in the world will crumble and fall".
Me
He signed a 4 year 12 million dollar deal in August.
So I’d hazard to bet that it would be around 2-4 million dollars.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Probably $3 million from reading someone
else comment on a different thread on wanting mare cut.
by adam carter on Dec 26, 2011 4:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's Right In This Post, $3,200,000 Cap Number & It Only Saves $200,000 To Cut Him
If you cut Mare he will still count $3,000,000 against the salary cap in 2012, while only saving $200,000, only around half the cost of his replacement. so it will cost more money to cut Mare than to keep him.
by PanthersRoar on Dec 27, 2011 6:25 AM EST up reply actions
Word on the street is that a couple of teams are interested in Applewhite.
I think that Steve signs an extension this offseason that lowers his stress on the cap, and ensures that he retires as a Panther.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
They'd have to pay him significantly more than we do I think. Or guarantee him a starting role.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I was specifically thinking about San Francisco, who also put in a bid for him on the waiver wire.
I don’t know about their cap situation, but with Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks, I doubt he would be a starter there.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
So unless he loves Cali (who doesn't) he'll probably stay.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Brooks is a free agent after this year I believe, so
the 49ers either could draft an Olb or sign applewhite.
by adam carter on Dec 26, 2011 4:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No thanks. We're good :)
We’ll take Cam off your hands though…
Cam for a pizza. Seems like a fair trade.
by runningblack on Dec 26, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Only if you throw in that awesome Punter of yours!
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of SF and special teams
Anyone else wishing we had gone with David Acres of Night-Mare?
I wanted Davis Akers over night-mare from the start.
Was he giving a 4yr $12million with $4 million guarantee to choke on chip shot field goals?
by adam carter on Dec 26, 2011 4:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Akers has almost outscored the entire Rams offense.
Which is really cool. Except for the fact that it shows that we have a garbage redzone offense.
But he’s a beast.
by runningblack on Dec 26, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
If you are a 49ers fan...
I must say that I’m so impressed with Aldon Smith’s technique for such a young player. It is truly remarkable the impact he has when he is in the game. I would argue he is the next great OLB sack artist. I would vote for him as Defensive RC of the year. Von Miller is obviously a huge talent, but when factoring in the lack of playing time for Smith, his impact is just unreal.
The best part is he's still learning the position.
He was a 4-3 D-End in college. He’s going to be dominant in the years to come if his coverage skills improve.
by runningblack on Dec 26, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
WE HAVE TO LOCK UP APPLEWHITE
He’s been a huge impact on this team and has really helped take the pressure and burden off hardy and johnson. along with keiser too
WOW! 16 on IR!!!
Watching the PC of coach I was shocked at the number. This will give the Panthers compensatory picks in the draft April. If I am right the IR list determines this…right? Or is it the number of freeagents a team looses? Anyway. I think that with the way this season turned out it will cause the Panther brain trust to really earn their money with the draft. To be honest, I don’t really know where we need to go with our first pick. I do think this is a defensive draft for the Panthers. I would not take an offensive player until the 3rd or 4th round.
"Success in anything we do in life is like building a house. Your talents are the bricks. You heart is the foundation. If you don’t have the foundation, all the talent in the world will crumble and fall".
Me
It's the amount important FA a team loses
that determines comp. picks.
by Ancev on Dec 26, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Compensatory picks are awarded based on drafted players leaving for free agency.
Panthers compensation will be for:
Richard Marshall
Jeff King
Dante Rosario
I could be wrong,
but I think it’s based on the how much their new contract is.
My understanding is that it is based on...
a combination of factors including:
What the departing FA signs for
Playing Time
Statistical Rankings
What drafted FA’s from other teams the Panthers signed to offset the loss of the departing FA’s
I would argue we "could" be in line for...
two 4th rounders and a 7th.
it's this
although idk if playing time factors into it.
Yes I'm a dude.
by Flowing Willow on Dec 26, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, It's the quality of FA's we lose, and the impact they bring to their new teams.
I think we will get a couple of late rounders for Jeff King, Dick Marshall, Dante Rosario, and Tony Fiammetta, all of whom have played most of the season with their respective new teams.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah, I forgot that.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Too bad that Fiammetta didn't play like that for the Panthers, he wouldn't have gotten cut.
He has been solid for the Cowboys.
How can you forget?! He plays for America's team now! Don't you know their roster off by heart??!
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I was too caught up in praying for Tony Romo this weekend.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
So if Rivera hinted that DT isn’t a main need for the draft then that leaves LB, CB, WR and O lineman. With us picking out of top 10 and Dre K and Claiborne gone I don’t see us going with CB in the 1st round. Which leaves us with LB, WR or O lineman. So Luke Kuechly, Riley Reiff, Zach Brown, Alshon Jeffery/Michael Floyd could all be possibles.
by PantherTrain on Dec 26, 2011 4:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
For Sure.
I still think that Dre lasts until we pick (10-12 range).
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Dre is quickly becoming my favorite prospect in the draft. He's a physical freak and a great talent.
Only thing he has going against him is that he’s a junior. I traditionally like players that have taken a 4 year class and have gotten their degrees. But hell, I’m just old-fashioned like that!
ACC Championship Member Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.
Clemson 2011 ACC Champions! Look forward to doing it again next year! :D
by Revshawn on Dec 26, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lol, It's hard to find players like that in the top 15 nowadays.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
SoN, just to let you know...
It is yet to be determined where we pick in the draft but should we lose to Saints we will pick either 8th or (if Miami beats the Jets and their strength of schedule beats ours) 9th. Should we beat the Saints our pick will be between 9 through 13 as determined by the Bills, Chiefs, Cardinals and Eagles.
"I may be old but...eh, I forget the rest!"
by GooseCreek on Dec 26, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Very True, I was banking my assumption on the premise that we will beat NO.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
He didn't rule out anything actually but when the Journalists asked him about DT concenrs...
he hinted that the problem wasn’t as drastic as some might have thought.
"Hope for the best plan for the worst"
"They laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at them because they're all the same"
Your right he didn't....
but I look at what has occurred over the past few weeks and I feel pretty good about the DT’s. I suspect a full offseason is going to be hugely beneficial for these guys.
McClain, Fua, Neblett, Kearse and Shirley
Seems to be some nice upside for the group as a collective whole.
Yup, and it certainly wouldn't hurt to have a better pass rushing presence with our front four.
"Hope for the best plan for the worst"
"They laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at them because they're all the same"
I would be happy with any of the following...
Jonathan Martin
DeCastro
Coples
Zach Brown
if they drop to second or we trade down
I’ll pick both of them.
by LovePanthers on Dec 26, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
IMO
It looks like the Panthers will pick around 12. I would see if we could trade down to around 20 and add another pick or two. With the 20th pick I would take Mark Barron the safety fro Bama (homer I know) because he is a ball hawking hard hiting player that can support the run as well as be a plus in the back field.
"Success in anything we do in life is like building a house. Your talents are the bricks. You heart is the foundation. If you don’t have the foundation, all the talent in the world will crumble and fall".
Me
Hmm no safety in this year draft is worth a top 20.
More line a late 1st rounder to an early 2nd rounder is his projection. Anything can happend though with a good combine etc, only time will tell.
by adam carter on Dec 26, 2011 4:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
IMO they should:
Cut:
Jason Baker
Ben Hartsock
Olindo Mare
Trade:
Mike Goodson
Restructure/Extend:
Steve Smith
Jonathan Stewart
Travelle Wharton
by Ancev on Dec 26, 2011 4:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Forgot to add...
the obvious restructure of Davis aswell.
I agree with the list completely
But I don’t think anyone would trade anything more than a 7th rounder for Goodson.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
7th is better than nothing
especially with him being inactive early in the season before being placed on IR. If we aren’t gonna use him might as well get some value out of him.
True, but I'm pretty sure that other GM's would just wait for Hurney to release him.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
But unless the Panthers go the classy route and let him go early
he’ll end up getting there after training camp. Why not trade a spot you probably won’t get much out of anyways, and get him in early enough to learn the system. isn’t he a pretty good pass blocker, just a case of the dropsies?
(in case you didn’t figure it out, I am trying to convince myself….)
by panthersnbraves on Dec 26, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I like Goodson too.
If they are going to get rid of Goody, I hope that they do it classily enough during the first few days of the offseason and FA, and allow him to latch onto a team for OTA’s and Minicamps.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
A lil OT, but NC St are on in the Independence Bowl right now.
Coples, Jones and Brown need to light it up to warrant the hype.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I'm gonna guess there's not enough interest to start a game thread.
Jones just took the ball away from the CB for a TD. Pretty impressive play.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
UNC
Not NC State ;)
I’m watching, if we get a thread going. Good prospects here.
And there's about 5 people online in the entire US so we won't get a game thread going.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I just put it on and I'm very unimpressed with UNC's effort
A lot of players lazily jogging behind the play on that run
Jones made an excellent catch then dropped an easy one.
Brown has done nothing….although he was about 5 steps behind the WR on the trick play TD which is pretty impressive for a LB. Coples has a few pressures and a tackle for a loss, but I’m not seeing elite explosion around the edge from him.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I have to agree.
Playing like they know their coach isn’t coming back and like they don’t want to get hurt.
I wouldn't touch Brown or Coples at this rate.
Brown just made a big hit, but it wasn’t a good tackle – wrap up young man.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
They look bad tonight.
No one from UNC was on the seat.
by LovePanthers on Dec 26, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
I woundn't touch ANY of the UNC defensive players
I’m a HUGE fan, but their effort alone has been pathetic…Zero heart. Athletic ability will get you noticed, but an NFL player needs more…
Exactly.
The seniors/jrs should be treating this as their final audition. The Combine/Senior Bowl is the icing on the cake. Teams focus on the game tape more than anything.
From what I’ve seen of Brown and Jones they’re very athletic (although Brown looks like a S), but they’ve made a ton of mistakes and played with no heart. Coples just doesn’t have that explosive burst I want to see from a top rated DE.
Either way this performance should drastically hinder their draft prospects.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I bet if UNC comes back and makes the score look respectable
Than their stock won’t drop that much. But, That’s pretty iffy right now. It’s still a long time till April.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
They're coming back now, and Brown has an INT.
Still not impressed though.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Yeah, It's been pretty abhorrent. Their stock might drop for a period of time,
But once the GM’s see them at the combine and pro days, their stock will shoot right back up.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
One one hand I like the Combine, 'cos it's a level playing field.
No biased Pro Days skewing numbers. It’s nice to know what everyone lifts/runs etc.
On the other hand you know that some GMs draft players that show off at the Combine. As the saying goes “Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane”. The game tape should be the biggest factor, followed by interviews. The Combine results should just be the final confirmation.
This game should have torpedoed these kids, but you’re right it won’t.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Problem was - I did not see a lots of UNC fans.
by LovePanthers on Dec 26, 2011 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
LOL, I didn't see any fans.
There was like 1000 people there.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 27, 2011 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
I had no clue Jordan Gross and Wharton cost so much money.
Daaang. If we pick a franchise LT as our #1 pick, you’ve got to consider cutting him at that price. Just blows my mind how much he costs.
ACC Championship Member Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.
Clemson 2011 ACC Champions! Look forward to doing it again next year! :D
Of course I gotta take that back immediately. But dang!
ACC Championship Member Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.
Clemson 2011 ACC Champions! Look forward to doing it again next year! :D
You switch him to RT and hope he'll negotiate a new contract - one that gives you some salary relief.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
That's what I am thinking too.
ACC Championship Member Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.
Clemson 2011 ACC Champions! Look forward to doing it again next year! :D
I was surprised as well -- together they're taking $17.6m of the $125m cap.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Need to restructure C Johnson
only 9 sacks for 30Mills
by LovePanthers on Dec 26, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Charles Johnson has been worth the money
Last I heard, he had the most tackles for loss in the NFL. Sacks aren’t the only thing that matters. And he hasn’t been getting much help from his interior partners.
by JDeLong42 on Dec 27, 2011 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Martin is NOT a no brainer...
"What up? We're three cool guys looking for other cool guys who wanna hang out in our party mansion. Nothing sexual. Dudes in good shape encouraged. If you're fat, you should be able to find humor in the little things." Again, NOTHING SEXUAL
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
you guys are like a bunch of pirahnas
by chop goes da weazel on Mar 31, 2011 12:32 PM PDT
by MikeTrain on Dec 26, 2011 5:54 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
If nothing else he’s good depth and he’s not all that expensive.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Dec 27, 2011 11:56 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Really off-topic ...
but what are the odds the Panthers are featured in one of the abroad games next year? Wouldn’t Goodell want a young, up-and-coming team, spearheaded by an exciting QB, to market the NFL at Wembley and whereever they decide the 2nd game will be? I wouldn’t want to lose a home game, but I think it’d be awesome publicity and experience for them to play overseas. Thoughts? Probability of this actually happening?
The other three NFC South teams have been to London, but it's all about what the owners want.
Not sure Richardson would want to lose a home game.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Just for fun, here's a look at the top 2011 NFL Draft DEs production so far:
Aldon Smith—49ers(now LB)………………..Tackles: 35………..Sacks: 14
J.J. Watt—Texans………………………………Tackles: 55………..Sacks: 5.5
Robert Quinn—Rams…………………………Tackles: 22………..Sacks: 5
Ryan Kerrigan—Red Skins(now LB)………..Tackles: 61………..Sacks: 7.5
Adrian Clayborn—Buccaneers……………….Tackles: 41………..Sacks: 7.5
Cameron Jordan—Saints……………………..Tackles: 26………..Sacks: 0
Muhammad Wilkerson—Jets…………………Tackles: 46……….Sacks: 3
Cameron Heyward—Steelers…………………Tackles: 11……….Sacks: 1
Jabaal Sheard—Browns……………………….Tackles: 49……….Sacks: 7.5
Brooks Reed—Texans(now LB)………………Tackles: 44………..Sacks: 6
Daquan Bowers—Buccaneers………………..Tackles: 23………..Sacks: 1.5
Justin Houston—Chiefs(now LB)…………….Tackles: 49………..Sacks: 4
Allen Bailey—Chiefs……………………………Tackles: 8…………Sacks: 1
Sam Acho—Cardinals(now LB)………………Tackles: 37………..Sacks: 6
Christian Ballard—Vikings(now DT)………….Tackles: 11………..Sacks: 0
Karl Klug—Titans(now DT)……………………Tackles: 20…………Sacks: 7
and our own un-drafted rookie:
Thomas Keiser…………………………………Tackles: 11………….Sacks: 4
"Hope for the best plan for the worst"
"They laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at them because they're all the same"
I really liked Watt, Kerrigan, Clayborn, Heyward and Klug coming in.
I thought Bailey was too stiff to play DE and probably too small to play DT.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
The Titans definitely got some good value in Klug being that he was drafted in the 5th round...
on the other hand Cameron Jordan numbers for the Saints have been extremely underwhelming.
"Hope for the best plan for the worst"
"They laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at them because they're all the same"
Didn't see Peppers on that list ...
must not be an option year.
by criolle johnny on Dec 26, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
Charles Johnson 42, 9 - 30Mills
Hardy 46, 4 – 1Mill
by LovePanthers on Dec 26, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
His contract won't be "30Mills" every year...he got his signing bonus this year.
CJ is more than worth his contract.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
SERIOUSLY? SMH
Cut or Trade: Gross, J-Stew, Sherrod Martin? To Resign Shockey and J Senn. “C’Mon Man”, You Can’t Be Serious. I can understand T. Wharton, even though I think he’s highly underrated. With Schwartz & Gary Williams returning next season we can be okay. Gross won’t going anywhere, believe that. Snotty neither. Snotty not even worth addressing.
by Ramdeezy64 on Dec 26, 2011 7:46 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Snotty LOL!!!
Smitty is not amused :^)
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 26, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Gross, Smitty, and Wharton would be idiotic cuts.
Why would you cut our #1 WR, starting Left Tackle, and very consistent and solid left guard? And if you cut those guys your quality and depth certainly take a big hit at those positions.
"Hope for the best plan for the worst"
"They laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at them because they're all the same"
If we cut Smitty we would have to sign a big name FA, which would cost even more than he is making
Gross is being paid a lot but he is good enough for it, he is likely a top 5 offensive tackle in the NFL. Wharton is getting to much, I like him but that is just ridiculous for a guard. I hope he would restructure.
I never suggested cutting them, or even shopping them for trades. I just found the numbers, and these are the guys
that hit the cap the hardest if we keep them vs. TRADING them. Restructuring the deals is another option.
Okay, now we’re business men, and I’m giving you some big-money “head scratchers” to consider
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Agreed
Great info on the free agents kudos to you for that. The personal injections? Unrealistic misguided and generally poor ideas. I think we retain the “core” again next year, make a signing or two on defense and hope to hit it big with BPA in the draft.
by mh420800 on Dec 26, 2011 8:37 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Look, I used the word "cut" too liberally. "Trade" is the better term. And I never endorsed anything, just threw it out for discussion.
These are numbers that BAMF and Hurney are dealing with for next year. I’m giving them to our members so they can understand the cap ramifications; as in, we can’t go after V-Jax, mmmkay.
If you think giving a moment’s consideration to TRADING Gross in order to obtain Kalil (10-years younger at rookie scale) and save $6 mil against the cap is a “misguided and generally poor idea,” then I would have to question your business acumen, your creativity, your foresight, and your sense of what’s better for the Panthers in the long-term. I don’t think they’ll do it, but it’s not misguided to consider it.
Damn… Tough crowd. (not directed solely at you mh420800)
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Excuse me, I did endorse trading Baker, Hartsock, Martin, Goodson to free cap space. If that is the personal injections
you’re referring to, I can deal with that. Maybe you could tell me why it makes sense to keep them?
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Maybe I was a little bit too harsh.
It was definitely an informative post that I thoroughly enjoyed reading. I did have to take issue with the ideas presented at the end because they are just not at all realistic. No one is going to be in position to draft Kalil at an affordable rookie salary and decide “Hey you know what I want 32 year old Jordan Gross and a draft pick!” So while you may be displaying creativity and foresight, I feel your lacking in a realistic approach. When it comes time for Kalil to get drafted, the team in position to lock up a franchise left tackle is going to do exactly that.
As far as trading Baker, Hartsock, Martin and Goodson, the issue is trades don’t really happen that often in the NFL. Especially not for spare parts. Teams will simply wait for players like that to be cut.
Bottom line I think we are cap strapped next year, which is fine, because we have a solid young core. Again thanks for the research, wasn’t attempting to be snarky, it just irks me when people throw out “we should make this ridiculously beneficial to our team trade that no one else would accept” injections.
No prob, man. Sorry for snarking back.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
CB/DE
I agree with most of your projections, extend smitty, Jstew, gross, Wharton, etc.
I personally think Conner is gone. Maybe resign Senn… But I think they have full intentions of Davis coming back, and so that makes me wonder if they would even draft a LB like Brown, in the first round… I think our most glaring need is either DLine or CB and that’s the route they go.
The oline is solid with bell coming into his own, and Otah (I know, I know…) coming back. And trust me, I’m maybe the #5 person on the M Kalil Bandwagon! they need to resign piggy.
WR/TE is also solid with Gettis and Barnidge coming back. Idk how much I’d miss Shockey… But if his price was cheap, bring em back.
Trade Goody or cut him. Same with pickles. Bring back Anderson.
I like Godfrey and Martin, I just think they have gotten bad press by being put in bad situations from bad play from the #2 starting corner
I love Kracken and applewhite, but I wouldn’t mind an upgrade there…
So I think the most glaring need is CB and I think BAMF is going to do everything they can to get the #1 CB prospect to pair with the most underrated CB in the league.
by danism on Dec 26, 2011 9:19 PM EST via mobile reply actions
2012 Roster as i see it..
QB – Cam Newton / Derek Anderson / Jimmy Clausen
HB – DeAngelo Williams / Jonathan Stewart / Josh Vaughan
FB – Richie Brockel
WR – Steve Smith / Brandon LaFell / Kealoha Pilares
WR – David Gettis / Legedu Naanee / Armanti Edwards
TE – Greg Olsen / Jeremy Shockey / Gary Barnidge
LT – Jeff Otah / Byron Bell
LG – Travelle Wharton / Garry Williams
C – Ryan Kalil
RG – Geoff Hangartner
RT – Jordan Gross / Lee Ziemba
LDE – Greg Hardy / Eric Norwood
DT – Ron Edwards/ Terrell McClain / Andre Neblett
NT – Sione Fua / Frank Kearse
RDE – Charles Johnson / Antwan Applewhite / Thomas Keiser
SLB – James Anderson /Jordan Senn/ Jason Phillips
MLB – Jon Beason / Kion Wilson
WLB – Thomas Davis / Jason Williams/Thomas Williams
LCB – Chris Gamble / Darius Butler
RCB – Captain Munnerlyn / Brandon Hogan / Jonathan Nelson
FS – Sherrod Martin / Jordan Pugh
SS – Charles Godfrey
K – Adi Kunalic
P – Jason Baker
LS JJ Jansen
KR – Kealoha Pilares
PR – Armanti Edwards
Unrestricted Free Agents
Jeremy Shockey, TE – *
Geoff Hangartner, OG -*
Dan Connor, MLB – GONE (Signs with another team)
Derek Anderson, QB -*
Legedu Naanee, WR -*
Antwan Applewhite, OLB -*
J.J. Jansen, LS -*
Jordan Senn, OLB -*
Mackenzy Bernadeau, OG – GONE (We wont resign player)
Richie Brockel, TE/FB -*
Cletis Gordon, DB – GONE (We wont resign player)
Restricted Free Agent
Jason Phillips, LB -*
Geoff Schwartz, OT GONE – (We wont resign player)
Thomas Williams, OLB -*
Seyi Ajirotutu, WR – GONE (We wont resign player)
Exclusive Rights Free Agents
R.J. Stanford, DB – Gone (We wont resign player)
Frank Kearse, DT -*
- - Is players that will be resigned.
Jonathan Nelson – Will take Stanfords place.
Adi Kunalic – will replace Mare
Goodson – Cut
Thought on this guys??
Coach Rivera, is a BAMF..
Love the team, but there are no rookies... so why not trade all our draft picks? I'm almost serious... why not?
Easy boys and girls, I’m just in a rotten mood today…
A riot is an ungly thing… undt, I tink, that it is chust about time ve had vun.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
Getting rid of Schwartz would be risky, and Otah is more of a RT not an LT.
Otherwise, It’s pretty good (minus all of the rookies that are missing). I’m just not sure we can afford to resign all of these guys.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 27, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
So they put the entire draft class on the practice squad?
by FF Companion on Dec 27, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
Make 'em earn the Panther head on their helmet.....or something.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I Have To Disagree LD With A Few On Your List
1. Re-signing their own Free Agents (cost is just my low end guess):
TE Jeremy Shockey – Almost a must have, but tough to create $3 mil. cap room for him.
G/C Geoff Hangartner – Want him back, but may cost $1.5 mil.
WR Legedu Naanee – Want him back, but may cost $1 mil. with a broken foot.
RG Geoff Schwartz – Need him back, around $1.1 mil. (if his hips OK)
OLB Jordan Senn – Want him back, but under $1 mil.
LS J. J. Jansen – They need him, but not at more than $700-800,000.
QG Derek Anderson – Yes, but only for around $1 mil. or a little less.
DT Frank Kearse – Re-sign him for the minimum.
K Adi Kunalic – Re-sign him for minimum.
CB R. J. Stanford – Re-sign at the minimum.
LB Thomas Williams – Maybe at the minimum, if his neck injury checks out.
LB Jason Phillps – Maybe at the minimum.
TE/FB Richie Brockel – Maybe for the minimum
S Jonathan Nelson – At the minimum.
MLB Dan Connor – A good backup, but can’t afford him.
DE/OLB Antwan Applewhite – Gone, he will cost too much
G Mackenzy Bernadeau – Gone
DB Cletis Gordon – Gone
WR Seyi Ajirotutu – Cut in camp
Players To Cut From Your List:
RG Travelle Wharton – If he won’t restructure his contract to save $4 mil.it saves $ 5.7 mil.
DE/OLB Eric Norwood – He’s done almost nothing, and it saves $500,000 in cap room.
P Jason Baker – It saves $1,550,000 in cap room.
RT Jeff Otah – Maybe, if the Panthers draft or sign another OT (he’s in RR’s doghouse, because he’s never healthy, it would save around $1,076,000 to cut him. He could also be traded for a late draft pick, it’s better than letting his leave as a free agent in 2013, and getting nothing.
Players Not Cut:
K Orlando Mare – It will cost around $200,000 more at a minimum to cut him than to keep him, try and get him to restructure his contract downward.
RB Mike Goodson – I would like to keep him, but RR doesn’t want him, so trade him for a draft pick (5th or 6th round, if you can’t get a 4th round pick), anything you get is better than the nothing you get for cutting him (would get $700,000 in cap room, but it saves $823,000 to trade him).
Players To Add To Your List (at least as training camp bodies):
NT Jason Shirley
G/C Zack Williams
G Bryant Browning
C Jeff Byers
LB Phillip Dillard
WR Darvin Adams
FS Michael Greco – 6-2 7/8, 224, 4.40-40, sign him again for the minimum, if he’s healthy, he was released at the end of training camp with an injury settlement. He has great speed, and can be a combo S/OLB.
RB/FB Mario Fannin – 5-10 3/8, 231, 4.38-40, 1.51-10, he played with Cam at Auburn (6.5 YPC, and 42 catches in 2009), wasn’t drafted, but signed with the Broncos, then was given an injury settlement when he hurt his ankle. I hope the Panthers will try to sign him, if he’s healthy, he might be a good replacement for Goodson.
Corrections:
Jeff Otah and Byron Bell are the RT’s, and Jordan Gross is the LT.
Jonathan Nelson is listed as a S, not a CB.
I like your suggestions, and it will be tough to make cap room for all of these guys.
QB might be a place of change to save some money. Trading Clausen might save around a million dollars in cap space. And with a late round pick the Panthers could pick up a developmental QB in the draft.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 27, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Trading Jimmeh would save $490,000; but, like Poor Richard said, a half million saved is a half million earned.
Or maybe that was a penny saved …
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
LOL.
Ehh… We gotta get cap space somewhere.
Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."
by Son of a Newton on Dec 27, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
I think im gonna do some research later
Pat says 124 million is committed for next year nut thrashing doesn’t make sense to me…. that is more than we have spent this year with 15 extras because of people on ir…. not to mention guys like big money and dwill have fro t loaded contracts….. ill see after work
by Josh Isitt on Dec 28, 2011 5:32 AM EST via Android app reply actions
Err ..... but that*..... not nut thrashing
I hate my phones auto correct
by Josh Isitt on Dec 28, 2011 5:34 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
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