Will The Recent Play Of The D-Line Alter The Panthers Draft Plans?

by PanthersRoar on Dec 25, 2011 3:19 AM EST

I don't like to make snap judgements, based on a small sample size, so I haven't yet altered my ideas on the Panthers 2012 draft needs, but today's game has at least prompted me to re-think my ideas about the Panthers 2012 draft needs.

Prior to today's game I was certain that the Panthers needed a big NT (325+ pounds), and a good pass rushing DT in the 2012 draft (or free agency), but now I must re-think that judgement. Take a look at the D-Lines stats this season (ages are listed as of Sept 1st, 2012), and see what you think.

NT's:

Sione Fua (6-1, 308, 5.28-40, 1.77-10, age 24, rookie) - 11 games, 11 games started, 9 tackles, 4 solo tackles, 0 sacks, and 0 forced fumbles.

Frank Kearse (6-4, 325, 5.30-40, age 23, rookie) - 5 games, 3 games started, 8 tackles, 6 solo tackles, 0.5 sacks, 0 forced fumbles.

Jason Shirley (6-5, 345, Pro Day 5.02-40, age 26, 2nd season on a roster in 4 years) - 3 games, 0 games started, 4 tackles, 2 solo tackles, 2.5 sacks, 1 forced fumbles.

DT's:

Terrell McClain (6-2, 291, Combine 5.00-40, Pro Day 4.82-40, 1.71-10, age 24, rookie) - 12 games, 12 games started, 19 tackles, 13 solo tackles, 1 sack, 0 forced fumbles.

Andre Neblett (6-0, 295, Pro Day 4.99-40, age 24, 2nd season) - 12 games, 4 games started, 23 tackles, 15 solo tackles, 2.5 sacks, 0 forced fumbles.

Ogemdi Nwagbuo (6-3, 315, 5.09-40, age 26, 4th year) - 3 games, 0 starts, 1 tackle, 1 solo tackle, 0 sacks, 0 forced fumbles.

Ron Edwards (6-3, 315, age 33, 10 years experience) - on IR.

DE's:

Charles Johnson (6-2, 275, 4.82-40, age 26, 5th season) - 15 games, 15 games started, 41 tackles, 31 solo tackles, 9 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 4 passes defended.

Greg Hardy (6-4, 277, Pro Day 4.79-40, age 24, 2nd season) - 15 games, 15 games started, 46 tackles, 35 solo tackles, 4 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 11 passes defended.

DE/OLB's:

Antwan Applewhite (6-3, 258, 4.73-40, 1.62-10, age 26, 4th season) - 11 games, 0 games started, 23 tackles, 18 solo tackles, 2 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 1 pass defended. He will be a UFA (Unrestricted Free Agent).

Thomas Keiser (6-3, 261, 4.87-40, age 23, rookie) - 7 games, 0 games started, 11 tackles, all 11 are solo tackles, 4 sacks, 0 forced fumbles, 1 pass defended, 1 interception.

Eric Norwood (6-1, 241, 4.71-40, age 24, 2nd year) - 12 games, 0 starts, 10 tackles, 6 of them solo tackles, o sacks, 0 forced fumbles.

2012 Outlook:

The Panthers will most likely only carry 5 DT's (DT's and NT's) on their 53 man roster, and one of those should also be able to play DE as well, with another able to play both DT and NT. In addition to these 5 DT's, the Panthers will likely only carry 4 DE's on their 53 man roster, and perhaps at least 1 OLB who can also play DE as well. This means the Panthers will still need to add a pass rushing, big (around 280 pounds, or a little larger) DE to back up Johnson and Hardy, and a 4-3 DT that can shift out to DE might be best. This could be the 5th DT, or the 3rd DE, with Kieser as the 4th DE, and the 5th DE being an OLB. In that way they could carry 3 NT's, and 3 DT's, with 3 DE's, with a DE/OLB.

However, picking the 5 DT's is tough. Kearse (he will be allowed on the Practice Squad if needed) shows as much promise at NT as Fua, and how can you not keep Shirley's 345 pound size, along with 2.5 sacks in only 3 games? At DT Neblett seems perhaps more talented than McClain, and those 2 make 5 DT's. However, that leaves out 33 year old, 10 year veteran Ron Edwards, who's on IR this season, but doesn't improve the Panthers inside pass rush. DT/DE Jared Crick (6-4, 285, 4.82-40, with 9.5 sacks in both 2009 and 2010) could fill the Panthers need for a pass rushing DT, and the need for a big backup DE in the draft.

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Comments

I remember Kearse getting a FF

CAM....CAAAAAAAAM

by CamNewtonSBMVP on Dec 25, 2011 9:32 AM EST reply actions

Btw from what i've seen Kearse and Shirley have outplayed the Fua & McClain

I say keep them as starters and don’t look back.

CAM....CAAAAAAAAM

by CamNewtonSBMVP on Dec 25, 2011 9:35 AM EST up reply actions

We won't give up on Fua and McClain after just 12 games

Lets not forget these kids got thrown to the dogs right out of the gate. But after watching all our DT’s progress through out the season, I am less inclined to spend a high draft pick on another one this year. That is unless one is clearly the BPA when we’re on the clock.

Merry Christmas guys

by jnrumsey on Dec 25, 2011 11:01 AM EST reply actions

There isn't a guy I like in the first round.

I think Kearse, Shirley, Neblett and McClain is a decent rotation. I’d be happy to add another talented guy in there if one becomes available. Whether that’s a NT or an UT is up for debate – whichever we could find to anchor the line.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on Dec 25, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions

I really like Taamu in the 2nd

or Crick. Other than that I don’t know.

by magicman56 on Dec 27, 2011 7:52 AM EST up reply actions

They have so far only shown they could be backups, not starters.

Both have been completely outplayed by Neblett, Shirley, and Kearse, who were drafted lower or not at all, come cheaper, and show far more effort and production.

It’s a weeding out process, and Fua (possibly even McClain, tho I’d keep him) got weeded out.

I voted we don’t need any more help. I like the guys we’ve got, plus there are many rotations when Hardy goes inside, with Applewhite and/or Keiser going to DE.

by bigdavis on Dec 26, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions

It's really tough to give up on a rookie (you know I'm loathe to do that), but Fua looks like he's simply not good enough.

That said if we have the chance to add another talented player through the draft, preferably one that can rush the passer, I don’t see the problem with letting them all compete for their jobs in Training Camp.

Neblett, Shirley, Kearse and McClain isn’t a bad rotation (IF they’re regularly rotated), but I’m not sure I could pass up the chance of adding someone like Still or Worthy if they fall to the 2nd round.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on Dec 26, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions

Wow, that's some poll.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on Dec 25, 2011 11:23 AM EST reply actions

obligatory TWSS

So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.

by Rick Bates on Dec 26, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions

That'd be 'pole'.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on Dec 26, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions

You left safeties off the stats.

Somehow, defensive scoring never shows up on the stat sheets!

by criolle johnny on Dec 25, 2011 12:00 PM EST reply actions

I agree with you PR.

We just spent 2 3rd rounders on defense tackle last draft. Our first pick needs to be either be DB or OL. I prefer DB to help sure up the back end of the defense. People need to realize the defense is like the offense it needs to work in unison. If we had a DB that could shut down a passing lane for one more second that one second could make the guys we have now look like studs. But instead of Crick I would prefer to get Billy Winn from Boise State. To play the 2 line positions. He just seems to me to be a more solid pick. I would use our 2nd rounder on him in a heart beat if he is still there.

by Smokewagon on Dec 25, 2011 12:38 PM EST reply actions

I want to see another solid pass rusher on the Defensive line.

Too many times, opposing QB’s have had excessive time to step up in the pocket and find an open target in our secondary. Another pass rushing presence (such as Quinton Coples) would not only improve our defensive line, but afford our secondary less time to cover their marks.

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Dec 25, 2011 12:39 PM EST reply actions

I will take Quinton Coples, DE, North Carolina at # 10 - # 15

by LovePanthers on Dec 25, 2011 12:45 PM EST reply actions

+1

by jdough on Dec 25, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions

+1

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Dec 25, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions

I agree that the recent DT play will alter draft plans

I think with development of Antonio Garay and Cam Thomas under Rivera last season, the current NT’s on this team may develop accordingly. Despite the Chargers overall bad play Thomas is outstanding and Garay still plays at a high level. I suspect the recent NT play for the Panthers will alter draft plans next year.

I really do expect much improvement from McClain and Fua with off-season workouts. Kearse and Shirley will have the opportunity to improve with more time under the current coaching staff. Neblett has really improved and I suspect his ceiling is higher than where it is right now.

With Hardy, CJ and Keiser really looking solid, adding one more DE that can slide inside on passing downs would make this DL virtually unblockable. The ceiling for DL play has been raised with the play of the current front of the 49ers. The 49ers have allowed one rushing TD all season. The key is Justin Smith at DE, who slides inside on passing downs and causes havoc. I believe Coples or someone with a similar skill set would give us something comparable.

A lot can change as far as player evaluations before the draft, however if nothing changes between now and then, I say take Coples and don’t draft in the top 20 for the next 5-10 seasons. ;)

FYI…quite a few on here were touting our DE’s as being a strength with CJ, Hardy, Brown and Norwood. Well, now it’s CJ, Hardy, Keiser and ?.

by jdough on Dec 25, 2011 2:35 PM EST reply actions

Applewhite.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on Dec 25, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I think that the Panthers should try to keep...

Shirley, Neblett, Kearse, McClain, Fua, and Edwards on next years roster. With Edwards being the wild card.

Cam Newton, when a reporter asks him who will win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday: "I'll tell you Sunday."

by Son of a Newton on Dec 25, 2011 3:14 PM EST reply actions

It shouldn't.

We’re dealing with a ridiculously small sample size to judge our DL on. We should go into the offseason with the same questions about our defense that existed a few weeks ago.

Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91

by Jake Humphrey on Dec 26, 2011 12:06 AM EST via Android app reply actions

I think we have what we need. At this point, I could see Neblett, Shirley, McClain, Fua, and Edwards

as making the 53-man roster. Hardy and Johnson can both play inside, with Keiser and Applewhite (if re-signed) rotating in.

So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.

by Rick Bates on Dec 26, 2011 6:49 PM EST reply actions

To answer the post, NO.

by oldpanther on Dec 27, 2011 10:29 AM EST reply actions

I still look to add some DT help.

If someone like Thompson, Ta’amu, Crick, Still, Worthy or Poe is available when we pick in the second, that’s a huge talent upgrade over what we currently have. Plus you can never have too many DL. Add one of those guys to our current crop of Fua, Mclain, Neblett, Shirley, Kearse and Edwards and let the best men win.

Given the depth of the DB class, I also would consider Quinton Coples at what I’m assuming will be a pick in the early teens. He can slide inside on passing downs to provide some pass rush from there, and he looks like a solid run-stuffing end for our 3-4 packages. Applewhite is a FA, so he would be taking his spot.

Yes I'm a dude.

by Flowing Willow on Dec 28, 2011 11:48 AM EST reply actions