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Panthers Hope to Emulate This Seasons 49ers in 2012

Joel Thorman's put out predictions for the remainder of the 2011 season and playoffs and was struck by how much improved the 49ers are from 2010. It's the type of improvement, barring a 2nd half collapse, that I think the Panthers should hope to emulate from 2011 to 2012. I'm as surprised as anyone to see them succeed because I have never thought Alex Smith could lead a team to a winning record much less an NFC title game.

That is where Thorman thinks the 49ers are headed but given he's picked the two teams with the best records so far (Green Bay & San Fran) in the NFC he's not really going out on limb with this prediction.

NFC Championship: Packers over 49ers. Indeed, the 49ers making the NFC Championship game by limiting their mistakes and playing excellent defense. Ultimately, though, you can't pick against the Packers making the Super Bowl. They're in another world compared to the rest of the league right now.

Now if he had picked GB & SF before the season he would be looking pretty smart right about now. 

Back to my point, what is has been the biggest driver of the 49ers rise to a 4 game lead int he NFC West? Is it improved QB play by proverbial under-achiever Alex Smith? Is it improved defense? Special teams? Before you dismiss their record because of a perceived easy schedule (they are in the NFC West after all) consider they have beaten the Eagles, Lions, Bengals and Bucs (destroyed them actually) and have yet to play the Rams or the Cardinals. given I only see three hard games left in their remaining nine I could see this team going 13-3. I'm not sure I see them in the NFC championship just yet but they have an easy road to a 1st week bye.

We will explore that and how the Panthers could learn from the 2011 49ers after the jump...

Star-divide

Here's the 49ers NFL ranks this season compared to last season (via NFL.com):

49ers Statistics

2010 Rank

2011 Rank

Total Offense

24th

18th

Rushing Offense

17th

18th

Passing Offense

25th

10th

Total Defense

13th

4th

Rushing Defense

6th

1st

Passing Defense

24th

21st

Special Teams

22nd

2nd

 

You can see only certain aspects of their game have improved and only one has improved dramatically, special teams play. You can pretty much thank the addition of KR/PR Ted Ginn, K David Akers and P Andy Lee for that dramatic improvement.

The defense likewise went from 6th to 1st against the run which is never a bad thing. The passing defense though has seen only modest improvement but that could be that teams find themselves having to throw more than they would like since they can't run the ball.

The offense only went from 24th to 18th overall thinks to some improvement in the passing game. I'm sure some credit must be given to new HC Jim Harbaugh but let's also acknowledge they've spent some picks on the offensive line that have panned out.

So if you look at the 2011 Panthers you see we have the offense to make the improvement we seek. We have a good pass defense but no surprise the rush defense has got to improve. Even more glaring is the need for huge improvement in special teams but I think that could be achieved with a single player.

So here's the priority for the Panthers offseason free agent acquisition strategy based on this 49ers model:

1 - Sign the better KR & PR on the market (one that could do both would be preferred)

2 - Get the best 4-3 DT on the market to pair with Ron Edwards until Fua and McClain become starter quality.

3 - Get the best 4-3 WLB on the market to compete with Thomas Davis

Do those three things and this team can reverse their current 2-6 record to 6-2 in a single season. What do you think? (I agree using the 49ers as a model is painful but...)

Comment 142 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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I doubt that signing a KR/PR will be number 1 on the priority list.

They probably try to develop that internally or through the draft, unless there is some can’t miss guy who makes sense for them (don’t know of any).

I think getting a DT is huge. Not sure if that will be free agency or draft, but I would guess the draft. Getting a big time DT would change this defense a lot.

Need depth at linebacker, imagine that would come through free agency.

I don’t see the Panthers breaking the bank in free agency, but I would like to see some depth added at linebacker and a big time DT through the draft.

by mh420800 on Nov 4, 2011 10:15 AM EDT reply actions  

My issue with getting a DT in the draft

Is that almost all of them are projects. DT’s need time to adjust to the NFL and this upcoming crop of fatties all have their flaws. We’d be much better off signing someone like Pat Sims. He’s young, already adjusted to the league, and the metrics LOVE his play.

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by Jake Humphrey on Nov 4, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Marcel Dareus has adjusted great this year.

And the thing about a draft and develop guy is, do you think we are Super Bowl contenders next year? I think we are going to be great next year but I’m okay with drafting at a position where the guy needs to develop a little bit.

by mh420800 on Nov 4, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dareus was also the #2 pick in the draft, and by all accounts "Ready to contribute immediately"

As of yet, none of the DTs in this upcoming class have earned that kind of endorsement.

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by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it's too early to say that there won't be an NFL ready DT.

Also I refer back to my previous point about draft and develop.

by mh420800 on Nov 4, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's why I qualified it with "as of yet"

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by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

He's the exception, not the rule.

DT’s generally speaking take time to adjust to the NFL, much like WR’s do. All of the DT’s this year have serious flaws. Why draft a flawed DT when we can sign a good, young, ready to start DT in Sims and can use the draft pick to address another area of need?

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by Jake Humphrey on Nov 4, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know why but I have this feeling that we don't spend much in free agency this year.

I hope I’m wrong though. Sure if we could sign a Sims or the like, than that would open us up to draft elsewhere, I just have a hunch that we won’t.

by mh420800 on Nov 4, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

By all accounts, Sims is the type we should be after.

He’s second-string in Cincinnati, so he should be ready to bolt for a starting job. He’s only 25 this year, strong against the run, and gets a push on passing downs. That’s EXACTLY the kind of player we should be targeting in free agency.

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by Jake Humphrey on Nov 4, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sims is a nice looking DT.

I’m not sure that he is going to be a major cog in this defense, because I don’t think that he is dominant by any means. However any improvement is good right now. Also if you sign Sims to start you may have to pay him starter money…

by mh420800 on Nov 4, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

No crap you have to pay him starter money, you sign him to start.

But he’s not going to get high-end money, and that’s the point. And check the FootballOutsider and PFF metrics, they love him.

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by Jake Humphrey on Nov 4, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't have the numbers in front of me, no.

But I do know that Hurney is a cap expert and wouldn’t have left us with no money to spend. There’s probably some creative accounting going on with the bonuses that will let us sign players this upcoming offseason.

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by Jake Humphrey on Nov 4, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can definitely take solace in the fact that Hurney is a cap ninja.

Who knows, obviously a ton changes between now and next April. Still fun to think about next years team though. Almost as much fun as thinking about this years team.

by mh420800 on Nov 4, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

1 huge cap space will be from either cutting, or restructuring

the Davis contract. He was due 8 mil next year. There is no way we pay that now.

"Nobody wants to cheer for a loser". Cam Newton 2011

by MrBernz on Nov 4, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

if he wants one more shot at playing, he’s going to have to accept a very low risk contract on the Panthers part.

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by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

And based on some of his Twitter comments...

He’s more than willing to do that. He understands what it’s going to take to play again, and he’s willing to do it to get back on the field. If only every NFL player had the same attitude about playing.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

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by BW Smith on Nov 4, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

And that is why you have to love TD

Although I do hope he listens to his doctors and family before just thinking about football. I would hate to see him be crippled for life just for a chance to play again.

From a team perspective, we still need to draft his theoretical replacement. We need to approach it the same way we will with Otah. It’ll be nice to have him start, but we need a really good plan B with potential to be plan A going forward.

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by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

100% agree.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Nov 4, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Damn you

Just seconds faster than me…

Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91

by Jake Humphrey on Nov 4, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

TWSS

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Nov 4, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

No kidding, I love Thomas Davis

But we still need to get a guy in the draft to start for him when he goes down again, because we know it will happen.

Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91

by Jake Humphrey on Nov 4, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

And that's why I want him back.

I can see Dan Morgan 2.0 all over him but honestly I was never really that ready to part with Danny either.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's been a big problem on the outside runs.

We don’t have a LB who can go sideline to sideline. Anderson is good but he is much better at playing down hill than he is running sideline to sideline.

Twaa...

by ERL on Nov 4, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

We really need that guy that can cover the field and consistently make open field tackles.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah.

Relying on safetys to do it means you are giving up big chunks…which we do on the regular.

Twaa...

by ERL on Nov 4, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

I played FS/RB in highschool and remember one game where I had like 7 tackles at the end of the first. We were in a timeout with the coach and he was flipping on the team because I was making all the tackles. At first, I thought he was saying it to give me props, but he was just simply blasting or D-line and linebackers for letting them get through to me.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right.

And Godfrey is tied with Connor for 2nd on the team in tackles. Martin is next.

Good grief. What do you think our record would be if Beast and TD were healthy?

Twaa...

by ERL on Nov 4, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly? We might only have one or two losses to our name.

That’s how close we have been on so many occasions.

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by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

6-2 or 8-0.

If they were healthy and performing at the levels they are capable of.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

TE coverage is where it has hurt us the most.

Every teams TE has been killing us, particularly on 3rd down. If we have a Beast or TD in coverage, we get off the field A LOT more often.

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by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Agree With You Jake, Bengals NT/DT Pat Sims Is The Top Free Agent

Sims is 6-2, 330, and only 25 years old. As the Bengals 3rd DT, he might be in the Panthers price range. Unlike most NT’s, Sims even has some pass rush ability, with 2.5 sacks in 2010.

The Panthers need a bigger NT like Sims, and even more if they are going to play more 3-4 defense next year. Many of the top free agent NT’s (Antonio Garay, Aubrayo Franklin, and Shaun Rogers) will be 32 or older next season. Lions backup NT (their 4th or 5th DT) Sammy Lee Hill (6-4, 329, 24 years old) is a restricted free agent, so he may be unavailable. Dolphins NT Paul Soliai (6-4, 355, and 27 years old) is probably the top free agent NT, but he was franchised this year, and will likely be out of the Panthers price range.

by PanthersRoar on Nov 4, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like the premise and rec'd the post.

I will say that part of the percieved rise of the 49er’s is because of their underachieveing last season. I and many others thought they should have won the NFC West last season with the talent they had on that team.

"I may be old but...eh, I forget the rest!"

by GooseCreek on Nov 4, 2011 10:17 AM EDT reply actions  

I've picked the 9'ers

to win the West multiple times over the past few seasons only for them to be extremely disappointing and underachieving. The year I was ready to give up on them completely, they come out balling. Smh.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Big reason the niners are having success this year? Frank Gore

True, Alex Smith has been pretty much mistake free this year, but he has also only thrown for more than 200 yards twice IIRC; Gore (and the O-Line, as mentioned) has been the driving force behind their improved offense, which when paired with the improved defense has been the biggest factor to their 6-1 start. It’s the tried and true method of winning, since there’s only so many elite QBs who can run the type of spread offense that is becoming popular in the NFL these days…

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Nov 4, 2011 10:20 AM EDT reply actions  

the 49ers are playing Foxball.

Control the clock by running the ball, game-manager type QB, play hard nosed defense.

There is nothing wrong with that, as long as you have the personnel to do it. The problem that John Fox had here in Carolina, was that he would not adjust the gameplan to fit his personnel. He tried to make his personnel fit the gameplan, and that is why he did not find success in the end.

Harbaugh has the ability to mold and adapt his scheme to his personnel. He knows he has a good defense, he just needed to figure out a way to keep the offense on the field more often. With an improved offensive line, the 49ers are finally able to let Gore take over the game, and Alex Smith only throw when needed. Due to the improved running game, Alex Smith has had success.

As it stands right now, just improving our special teams play would have resulted in a better record. If we can at least field an average defense and ST unit, we can make a deep playoff run. I expect to see a defensively focused draft this year, and coupled with the return of our injured starters Beason and Edwards (and praying for TD) we should be good to go.

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by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

^

Pretty much.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

a piece of it

frank gore being healthy, smith being a good game manager, defense being good.

but the biggest change? coaching. better offensive calls, better communication between coaches, better support for the starting QB.

its like how last years Carolina team was a better than 2 win team (not much…but better) but the coaching staff flat out failed last years team. the 49ers team was better last year than their record.

by lj1983 on Nov 4, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bigger reason is their new DC, Vic Fangio.

Way back when, when we were waiting for Luck to declare, I was saying he was the best thing about Stanford, and whatever NFL team he was signed by would transform their defense.

by bigdavis on Nov 4, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

He helped mold our first defenses...

although along with aging overnight, our zone blitzing schemes got figured out after 96 lol

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Nov 4, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

A big emphasis needs to be put on special teams this offseason.

I’m the biggest Armanti fan this side of Tater, but something needs to be done about our return game. The blocking needs to be better, the coverage units need to be better, and the returners need to be better.

Going out and signing some special teams aces would be relatively cheap and would do wonders for our special teams units.

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by Jake Humphrey on Nov 4, 2011 10:37 AM EDT reply actions  

I think it will also help when our ST players aren't either hurt or starting on defense...

Our ST unit is made up of backups to scrubs, and you can’t be successful in ST’s with guys who would normally be on practice squads or ringing up groceries so Kurt Warner can bag them.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Nov 4, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

That'll help too

But I think we can all agree that there’s no Karl Hankton on this team.

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by Jake Humphrey on Nov 4, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're right -- there's not.

Sigh…I miss Hankton.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Nov 4, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Or Dante Wesley.

He was a pretty decent gunner.

by kasayfan4 on Nov 4, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I seem to remember Barnidge being a pretty good guy on ST, too.

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by Jake Humphrey on Nov 4, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why do all of our

players seem to fall of the map when they go to Chicago? Peppers is still pretty decent (not as beastly as he was here imo), but Moose, Wesley, Harris, and RMJR all fell off once they put on Bear uniforms.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

My guess is because their GM isn't working well with the coaches.

Not bringing in players that best suit the coaching schemes tends to make said players look bad.

I kinda like power running football though. It’s iike a bloody violent ballet…
When it was working it was a thing of beauty to me. - Vagus

(Please note that from now on I shall only refer to Cam as "The Newt" and Rivera as "BAMF")

Jerry Richardson: "Bitch slapping the NFL one signing at a time" - MMA_Pitbull

by The Duke Dude on Nov 4, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

That may just be what it is.

It seems like the Bears’ front office and coaching staff haven’t been on the same page for the last few years.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know, but I'm glad it isn't the other way around

Olsen looking good.
Jason Williams looking okay.
Ron Rivera looking mighty fine.

Okay, that last one might be a stretch, but it’s my post and I’ll do what I want.

by Beny on Nov 4, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Although Jason Williams came from Dallas

Jamar Williams (from the Chris Harris trade) was a turd covered in hair.

I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Nov 4, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

x

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Nov 4, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Classic.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does he even still play for us?

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

No.

Too bad we couldn’t get a pick for Harris instead. I mean, the guy was a 2nd team all pro last year for the Bears. Getting a conditional pick at the time of the trade likely would have required them to give us a third back. Meaning we would have gotten Greg Olsen for basically nothing.

Twaa...

by ERL on Nov 4, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't like that trade from the first moment I saw it.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember when it happened...

There were like 1000 comments on the thread, and most of them contained some choice 4-letter words.

Twaa...

by ERL on Nov 4, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I probably left a few of them myself.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did

Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91

by Jake Humphrey on Nov 4, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

I think I told the author of the article to STFU.

Twaa...

by ERL on Nov 4, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lol.

Well damn.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

crud, darn, rats, oops, and drat were just a few

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Nov 4, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Right, Jamar Williams

knew it was J Williams.

Too many Williams on the team anyway.

by Beny on Nov 4, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with this

Our extreme case of the injury bug this season has really hurt our ST play.

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by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the KR/PR should be a priority, and it might be one that we can address in the middle rounds of the draft, but it would be nice to get a player with a proven track record of breaking the big one.

DT and LB have to be our biggest priorities though, and I think we should pick one of those with our first round pick; whichever we can get the best value for. The other we should get in free agency, because we need immediate upgrades at both spots. I’d love for Davis to come back at full strength, but it is not likely he will be able to play a full season again, and especially unlikely that he can do it at his typical level of play. We also need to keep in mind that it is not a given that Beason will be the same player when/if he comes back from his serious injury. The more I think about it, the more I think we may need a 1st round LB for us.

by pancanbra on Nov 4, 2011 10:39 AM EDT reply actions  

With all due respect to what he did on the field as a Chicago Bear

Mike Singletary was a horendous head coach. I remember watching some segment on him making his team climb a 45 ft. 45 degree angle hill known as “Pain”. For players that fought for less practice and less padded practice I’m sure this type of boot camp training camp went over terrible. He flip-flopped on his QB’s and called out players publicly, hell he got into a screaming match with Vernon Davis on the sidelines. Some people just aren’t cut out to coach and he dragged that talented team down. IMO that’s a huge part of this turn around.

They will lose in the first round of the playoffs though.

by Swamp Panther on Nov 4, 2011 10:43 AM EDT reply actions  

It's funny,

I know, but I just don’t think Green Bay is THAT good. They’re good no doubt. But they’re not “worlds” above the rest of the league imo. I’m willing to bet that the finish the season with around 4 losses.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 11:22 AM EDT reply actions  

I disagree

I don’t see them losing to Detroit twice. Tampa doesn’t stand a chance. San Diego on paper can beat them, but it depends on whether the Chargers actually come out of the locker room and play ball. The Giant’s D-line is beast, and Eli’s playing well, so they might beat them. Kansas City won’t, Oakland won’t, Chicago won’t, and Minny won’t. And by won’t, I mean they shouldn’t beat them unless Green Bay reverts to Detroit from two years ago. So IF, and that’s a big if, San Diego actually shows up, I think the most losses Green Bay will have is three.

I kinda like power running football though. It’s iike a bloody violent ballet…
When it was working it was a thing of beauty to me. - Vagus

(Please note that from now on I shall only refer to Cam as "The Newt" and Rivera as "BAMF")

Jerry Richardson: "Bitch slapping the NFL one signing at a time" - MMA_Pitbull

by The Duke Dude on Nov 4, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah,

I haven’t looked at the schedules. They could very well finish up 14-2 or even undefeated. But when thinking about teams of the past, they just remind me of a 12-4 good team (like the Colts were every year before this one) but not the dominate team that is just going to tear through the NFL.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whether or not Green Bay as a team is "that good" doesn't really matter....

Because right now they have a QB that is playing some of the best football the NFL has ever seen. He’s on pace to have the greatest season for a QB ever. For that reason alone they’re going to be nearly unbeatable.

by pancanbra on Nov 4, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't call them unbeatable

when Minnesota can give them a challenge like that. They are good, but they aren’t the great team the media and their undefeated record are making them out to be, imo. Pretty good? Yes. Super Bowl contenders? Absolutely. Do I consider them on the level of the Patriots team that went undefeated or the “Greatest Show on Turf Rams”? No.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we should pick up

somebody that’s just electric with their speed for the return game. I don’t know if I’ve seen any under the radar players this year, but in year’s past, I felt that it would have been extremely beneficial for us to add someone like Darren Sproles, Wes Welker, or Leon Washington. They’ve all gone on to do bigger and better things other than special teams, but at one point in all of their careers before they became household names, their special teams play let me know they could become big time players.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 11:34 AM EDT reply actions  

as far as ST returners go...

I know he doesnt look like it now, but I feel that Kealoha Pilares WILL be an excellent return man for the Panthers. Lets cut the kid some slack. He has only had a few games to get over the jitters of running up against the pros, the kid is lightening fast and elusive, and lets be honest, our blocking is horrible. I think the kid can be special with some time, coaching, and a revamped supporting cast.

jdrahos

by jdrahos on Nov 4, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope so.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I could be wrong here...

but I feel pretty strongly that returners either get it or they don’t. When you look at all the good ones in the league, there’s never been a wait until he gets it mentality. You just knew they were great right away.

I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Nov 4, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is exactly

why I don’t have faith in anyone on our squad.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

precisely.

I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Nov 4, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Funny that Pilares gets this benefit of the doubt but Armanti doesn't.

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by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's because Pilares didn't go to a Division II school...

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by BW Smith on Nov 4, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

right, i forgot he went to one of those division I WAC powerhouse programs

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by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well played.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

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by BW Smith on Nov 4, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

That shit is wac[k]

Twaa...

by ERL on Nov 4, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here is whats going to happen. We will draft Matt Kalil, sign Vincent Jackson or Dwayne Bowe. I think our big FA splash will be at WR. After this season what WR wouldn’t want to play for Cam? I could see us easily picking up Dwayne Bowe, play for Matt Cassel in Kansas or come to hip and upcoming Charlotte and play for a QB like Cam coming off the best rookie year for a QB in history?

I think so many WRs will be itching to play for Cam we will have some good choices

by PantherTrain on Nov 4, 2011 12:04 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I seriously doubt we'll sign a top flight WR

Moving the ball isn’t our problem. Stopping it is. If there’s a big FA signing, it’ll be on the defensive side.

I kinda like power running football though. It’s iike a bloody violent ballet…
When it was working it was a thing of beauty to me. - Vagus

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by The Duke Dude on Nov 4, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Winrar

There won’t be much of anything done to the offense. There’s really no reason to.

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by Jake Humphrey on Nov 4, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

But we need to draft a WR with our #1 pick

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

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by BW Smith on Nov 4, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey, I'll even admit to being one of those guys not that long ago.

But now? Vontaze Burfict, come on down!

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by Jake Humphrey on Nov 4, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Although that's

our trouble spot (defense), I think we’ll still look at the prospect of adding a clear cut #2 receiver. Though they’ve been playing well, Lafell and Leganue (?) are still #3 caliber receivers in my eyes. I was really hoping Gettis could claim that spot this year.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look at a lot of the teams that run this offense, though.

Their #2 WR is a JAG. Our TE’s are our #2 receiving threat.

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by Jake Humphrey on Nov 4, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's very true.

I know Greg will be a Panther for a while, but I don’t think Shockey’s future is that solid here (judging by his contract and how they were talking earlier). I hope to GOD we can keep both of them because they are one of the most, if not the best, phenomenal TE rotation I’ve ever seen. Certainly the best that’s ever been here.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't discount a healthy Barnidge as a recieving threat.

Although Shockey sure does seem like he’s taken to North Carolina very well.

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by Jake Humphrey on Nov 4, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah. Barnidge is in the same mold as those guys.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

JAG OFF

Just Another Guy on OFFense.

by Swamp Panther on Nov 5, 2011 4:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I could still see us looking at a free agent WR

I just don’t see us drafting one. If we were able to get Dwayne Bowe, we would have our bona fide #1 replacement for Smitty when he decides to call it quits, and until then, we would have the most dangerous pair of WRs in the league.

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by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would be nice to get a big guy to put opposite 89. Yes, Legs is a big WR, but we can certainly find an upgrade. But that would leave Lafell and Gettis as the 4th and 5th WRs, assuming we keep Legs. Not sure Armanti makes the squad if we add another WR. Pilares would be in the same boat, I guess. The way to upgrade the WR position without having to cut a young WR would be to either not bring back Legs or make him a backup TE/special teamer.

Twaa...

by ERL on Nov 4, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gettis does have a big body

But since he went down, the coaching staff doesn’t know what to make of him. They won’t really know by free agency and draft time either. Their answer may be to trade him based on the value he built up in his first season, which could net us a pick much higher than where he was drafted, although probably no better than a 3rd.

LaFell is that physical threat we are looking for, I really think he is slated to replace Legs next year, unless Legs really starts being more impressive.

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by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

And, with the improvements we need to make on defense through free agency and the draft...

I don’t think we will be able to add an upgrade at WR due to cap constraints.

So it looks like it will be up to Lafell and Gettis to impress the coaching staff next year—at least a little more than they did in camp this year.

Twaa...

by ERL on Nov 4, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I doubt we could get anything close

to a 3rd round pick for Gettis. Imo of course.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

WR is not priority

We have no need for VJAX or Bowe, with Smitty, LaFell coming on and Gettis coming back why do we pay a lot of money for a guy to come in a catch 25 balls?

by NOVACATS on Nov 4, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dwayne Bowe would assuredly catch more than 25 balls.

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- Ricky Bobby's Dad

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by KaiserBromley on Nov 4, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

we don't need any of that

At this point, we need more cohesion and better execution than a personnel improvement. Of course, adding better talent is a good thing. I don’t understand why we didn’t get Cullen Jenkins or Johnathan Joseph, but that’s irrelevant now.

The key for this team is to reduce penalties, turnovers, missed FGs, and endure fewer injuries.

But I would love to add a top tier DT.

I believe next year Gettis will be #2, and LaFell will be the #3 receiver. Nanee will be gone. McClain has looked good to me, and will be a long-time starter. He’ll be better by the end of the year, and ready to handle his business next season. I hope hogan is an upgrade over Munnerlyn. Even if he is, I would love to add a top tier corner. I wouldn’t be surprised if Samuel is available next year. I wouldn’t trade for him at this point, but if he’s a FA, I’d bring him in for a workout.

I think either D-Will or Goodson will be gone next year as well.

by usana_gaines on Nov 4, 2011 12:14 PM EDT reply actions  

If Hogan has the #1 CB potential he is billed to have

We will not need another CB for a long long time. Gamble, Hogan, Munny, and Butler are as deep a CB core as you could ask for.

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by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Assuming Hogan pans out, I don’t get all this clamor for a CB with out first pick.

"If ya ain't first, you're last."
- Ricky Bobby's Dad

"There is no evidence that the tongue is connected to the brain."
-Frank Tyger

by KaiserBromley on Nov 4, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

i want a better corner

but not with the 1st pick. I think Gamble is a 2nd tier CB, and by that I mean a notch below Woodson, Bailey and Revis. If we can’t get someone who is better than Gamble (and there are only a handful of guys who are that good), then I wouldn’t even worry about CB.

by usana_gaines on Nov 5, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

To get someone better than Gamble

It would have to be a top 10 pick, especially if you are looking for someone of Woodson, Bailey, Revis quality.

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by Tater596 on Nov 5, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

TD

does anyone know, do we have to pay any kind of money to Thomas Davis prior to him playing for us next year? is there any kind of “decision date” involved?

SIMPLE AND PLAIN

by revdwl34 on Nov 4, 2011 12:48 PM EDT reply actions  

I read that they were due to pay him 8 mil next year,

they paid him 7 this year. But that they have the option of keeping him for the 8 mil or not. I read that he would restructure his contract to stay, but how much do you pay a guy you just paid 7 mil to play 4 games? He has played about 8 games in the last 3 seasons.

"Nobody wants to cheer for a loser". Cam Newton 2011

by MrBernz on Nov 4, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

thanks bernz

this is a tough one. theres no one on the panthers i like more as a person than thomas davis. business wise, it looks wise to let him go. very painful situation

SIMPLE AND PLAIN

by revdwl34 on Nov 4, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't like it but I think it's time to let him go.

They already took good care of him last year by signing him to a new contract even though they could have had him for another year under his old contract. Maybe they can find a job for him as a trainer or assistant or something. I hate to see him go but keeping him is actually slowing us down from just finding his replacement.

"Nobody wants to cheer for a loser". Cam Newton 2011

by MrBernz on Nov 4, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

In fairness, insurance will pay out his contract since he went to IR

but it does count against the cap.

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by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Special Teams and Returners

I don’t see why people can think we are 1 “returner” away from having markedly improved special teams. We’ve got athleticism and speed that we throw in to that pot with the bevy of guys we’ve had back there, all of which seem would be very serviceable and productive if they had any semblance of blocking. Missed blocks, poor positioning, blockers chasing the gunners, i mean I don’t care what “special electric” guy you put back there- the recipe is the same- catching the ball with a flurry of guys in your mug. You better be signing Barry sanders to return kicks and punts for us- because that’s all I can see being fit for that formula. On the flip side- our coverage needs more athletes who aren’t afraid to bash and tackle- and hold their lanes…

go ahead and find the “return” guy…I don’t see the most magical of those performing all THAT much better…

by toonman on Nov 4, 2011 1:01 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Amen. And Rec'd

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by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

DT

The best thing the Panthers could do, but I admit I am not sure what it would take to get him away from Baltimore, is trade for Terrence Cody, he’s a beast and they already have Ngata playing nose tackle for them anyway. So Cody is redundant for them. We could sorely use him here and should have gotten him under Foxy’s last year drafting

by NCByrdman on Nov 4, 2011 1:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Terrence Cody isn't really awesome.

The dude doesn’t even have 20 tackles in his career. He’s unproven at best, the coaching staff would have no idea what they are getting out of him.

"If I know that you like Pancakes on Tuesdays, I might as well bring you the syrup" -Cam Newton

by Son of a Newton on Nov 4, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tackles definitely do not tell the story of Mt. Cody...

That dude eats up at least two blockers on any given play, and since he has lost a lot of weight from last season (which was negatively affecting his knees), he is a bitch and a half to move in any direction for the OL. Cody, provided the Ravens continue to keep his ass “in shape” (as much as a 335 lb lineman can be), will continue to be the secret weapon on that D-line for years to come.

It’s a shame the Ravens wised up and signed Ngata long term though; he would look great in the Black and Blue

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Nov 4, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I gotcha, but I still wouldn't want to trade a pick/player for Cody

"If I know that you like Pancakes on Tuesdays, I might as well bring you the syrup" -Cam Newton

by Son of a Newton on Nov 5, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

The beauty of having both Cody and Ngata for the Ravens

is that they slide Ngata out to DE and bring in Cody at NT to beef up their line on run downs.

I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Nov 4, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think they should draft BPA.

And sign free agents for dt and lb.
We will have Gettis back next year and if his speed is what it was before he will definitely be getting some deep throws and taking pressure off Smith as the #2.

"Nobody wants to cheer for a loser". Cam Newton 2011

by MrBernz on Nov 4, 2011 1:17 PM EDT reply actions  

San Francisco's success this year boils down to really only one factor...

It’s because of their easier schedule. They’ve really beaten very little in the way of superior competiton. Here’s how their season has played out so far…

SEA 17 @ SF 33 - Really weak division opponent. Easy, predictable win, especially since the Seahawks were starting .

DAL 27 @ SF 24 - Even the Cowboys managed to beat them, though it wasn’t easy. Given all of Dallas’ woes this season, this isn’t a good loss to have on the Niners resume.

SF 13 @ CIN 8 - The Niners offense went up against a really good Cincinnati defense and mustered one TD and 2 FGs while giving up a safety to the Bengals. Meanwhile, they managed to keep a rookie QB and WR duo (i.e., Dalton and Green) in check. A lot of people seem to think the Bengals are awesome this year. And, while their defense is playing well and their young offense is starting to gel, they too haven’t played the really tough teams on their schedule yet. So, to me, San Francisco and Cinncinnati are both paper tigers.

SF 24 @ PHI 23 - The Eagles still haven’t righted their ship yet and the Niners squeaked this one out. On paper, Philly should have won this one. But they’ve been underperforming all year long. And, San Fran just happened to have the right matchup: Frank Gore vs. a worn out D-line. That’s why they dominated this one. Not because they’re all-world or anything.

TB 3 @ SF 48 - Blow out victory for the Niners. And yet, most everyone views Tampa Bay as the weaker team in our division this year. Not based on record, obviously. But rather, in terms of talent and capability, the Bucs aren’t the strongest team against which to measure yourself. That said, the Niners clicked on all cylinders in this one. The Bucs turned the ball over multiple times and had almost 100 yds in penalties. That magnified the Niners ability to play ball control and they ran up the score. No biggie.

SF 25 @ DET 19 - This was their signature win. Detroit has been putting things together this year (moreso than SF) and they were unbeaten at the time. But, the Lions were also due for a letdown. Harbaugh had San Fran pumped for this game. They simply wanted it more. Even then, Detroit nearly pulled it out. The key was the Niners defense. And that’s been the case for most of the season. It’s also their running game. Frank Gore had 141 yards rushing on just 15 carries. So he gashed them on limited touches. But that was also the Niners’ strength vs. Detroit’s weakness…i.e., the Lions currently have the 30th ranked defense vs. the run. So, this was a made-to-order game for San Fran. They’re particular brand of offense (i.e., pound the ball) wasn’t challenged, and yet their defense reasonably contained Stafford, Megatron, and Best. That’s why they took the win. Not because they’re a powerhouse yet.

CLE 10 @ SF 20 - Another weak opponent. It’s a win anyone would take. But again, the Niners’ record of 6-1 is rather inflated by a lot of weak, underachieving opponents right now. They’re not being overly challenged by the bonafide division leaders in either conference. Once they face-off with Pittsburgh and Baltimore…or maybe the Giants and Redskins…and especially teams like New Orleans or Green Bay in the playoffs, you’ll get a much better sense of how strong they really are.

It’s kind of been a perfect storm for San Francisco this season. They stockpiled draft picks (i.e., they had all five picks in rounds 1-5, and then 5 more in rounds 6-7) and used them wisely. They added a key free agent here and there (i.e., Ted Ginn, Jr., etc.). They cleared the whole losing atmosphere with Harbaugh. They got a weak division opponent to start off the season with a win to help their players buy into the new system. They’re opponents thus far in the season have a combined record of 26-24 (kind of middle of the pack), but when you look more closely, 11 of those combined wins come in the shape of 5-2 Cinncinnati and 6-1 Detroit, both of whose wins have benefited from fairly easy schedules so far, as well. Their remaining opponents? They have a combined record of just 15-21. Ugh. That’s all you really need to know.

So, while San Francisco should easily make the playoffs this year…and maybe even secure a first round bye…I expect them to wilt when faced with the other division leaders, either in their remaining regular season schedule (i.e., Pittsburgh/Baltimore, New York/Washington/Philly) and especially in the playoffs (e.g., Green Bay or New Orleans). Yes, the Niners have a good defense and a good run game. That’ll certainly help them against a lot of teams (especially if their special teams kick in). But all in all, I just don’t think they’ve turned the corner yet. They’ll make a tremendous amount of progress this season. But, I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re one-and-done in the playoffs and then miss them entirely next season as they face a much tougher schedule.

But that’s just my two cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on Nov 4, 2011 1:19 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I'm not sure I agree.

Seattle and Cleveland, yes. But the rest of those teams combined have a good record.

Twaa...

by ERL on Nov 4, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

The TB blowout and the win over Detroit are impressive

But on the whole, I agree with you that they may not be AS good as their record indicates.

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by Tater596 on Nov 4, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree whole heartedly with you Niel

The Bengal and Niners have about 1 quality win, everything else was the luck of their schedule. If we had their schedule our record would be better. Probably not as good but better than 2-6.

"It is now official... Cam Newton is now the face of our franchise.

by Caro2daheart... on Nov 4, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did the panthers have the 7th easiest schedule

last year and went 2-14? Even if they had one of their schedules the defense/special teams would still suck. Any given Sunday anybody can be beaten rather thru hard it easy schedule. At the end of the day they have more wins than the panthers do, that what matters.

by adam carter on Nov 4, 2011 3:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Although I agree that they haven't faced the best of competition,

there are a few of those teams that I thought would be significantly better than SF heading into the season, particuarly because they hired a new head coach from college and there seemed to be a little beef brewing between Alex Smith and Michael Crabtree during the lockout.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Nov 4, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cincinnati, Philly, and Detroit were not cupcake wins.

They deserve their record, and their defense is as good as anybody’s in the league, thanks to Vic Fangio.

by bigdavis on Nov 4, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why are the 49ers winning?
  1. rushing defense and #2 special teams. And sprinkle in some Frank Gore.

They are winning in spit of everything else.

Twaa...

by ERL on Nov 4, 2011 1:57 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm starting to get tired of all of these comparisons

seriously people? every other week someone is trying to explain how we are similar to some other team. Well we aren’t. We are the Panthers and no one else is. Our team has different weaknesses and different strengths. Take us for what we are.

by pcroadrage on Nov 4, 2011 3:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Personally, I think it depends on who we play next year, rather than how much we improve.

BAMF and the front office won’t be able to reform our defense into a top-ten defense in one offseason. The way I see it, our defense has just been shivved. Rivera and the staff have put a bandaid on the wound, but it’s not really helping. Soon the defense will go to the hospital and get stitches (this offseason). However, when you get stitches, you have to wait some time before you can become active and have the stitches removed or else the stitches will burst and you will be right back where you started. Rome was not built in a day (or an offseason for that matter), so I think it is a little dopey for us to be comparing our team to another team.
For the record, I agree that the team should bring in a quality WLB and DT as well as Special Teams talents this offseason.

"If I know that you like Pancakes on Tuesdays, I might as well bring you the syrup" -Cam Newton

by Son of a Newton on Nov 4, 2011 4:15 PM EDT reply actions  

About reforming our defense:

We went from 32nd in offense last year to 5th so far this year. There is a lot of talent on the defensive side of the ball when everybody’s healthy. The defense is just a few pieces away from being a very solid unit.

by JDeLong42 on Nov 4, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree with that whole-heartedly

Get our injured LB’s and DT back, add a good FA DT and a top CB and this defense improves dramatically.

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by Jaxon on Nov 4, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

We've made that kind of defensive jump before...

not to say that it will necessarily happen again, but Del Rio and Fox took what was a far worse defensive unit from 2001 and turned it into the #2 defense in the league the next season, with only a couple of really big personnel changes (drafting Peppers being the biggest one). Still convinced that shoring up our interior DL has to be priority numero uno, since that will have a domino effect on many other aspects of the defense that are falling short right now.

Nobody fucks with the Jesus! -Big Lebowski

by Tomthehomer on Nov 4, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Niners are lucky

they play in a terrible division and they’re defense is holding everything together with Alex Smith’s surprisingly decent play. I think they get torn apart in the first playoff game

by vitzeng on Nov 4, 2011 4:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah...We haven't seen A Smith under playoff pressure yet...

I’m betting he chokes the first go around. They are a classic #2 seed prime to lose the 1st playoff game

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by Jaxon on Nov 4, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

they could be a #1 seed

I think the Packers defensive struggles will catch up to them, and they have a harder schedule than the 49ers. The rest of the NFC West is 4-17 or something like that. The 49ers could be the worst ever 14-2 team, and lose in the playoffs to a 10-6 Saints, Bucs, Bears, or Falcons.

by usana_gaines on Nov 5, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

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