Dear Big Cat, Hurney, & BAMF...
by my2centz on Nov 30, 2011 2:32 PM EST
Email
PrintAs the Panthers finish this season it pains me to be looking forward to next season already. It is what it is though. With the end of the season approaching there are three things that I'd love to see from Big Cat, Hurney, and BAMF moving on.
1. Do everything to keep Chud with the Panthers. Everyone sees what he has done in Carolina and he may be in line for a Head Coaching position somewhere else. I hope he stays in Carolina for good. He could be our offensive version of Dick Lebeau from the Steelers. A coordinator that is worthy of higher position but chooses to stay for the love of the team. The Panthers turnaround on offensive is directly tied to him. He has done an amazing job rebuilding our passing game, mentoring our new franchise QB, and even developing our young receiving core while keeping Smitty happy.
2. Keep taking chances on high risk high reward players. I don't necessarily mean drafting projects like AE, but elite talents that must be coached and guided. These risks have worked out for us before and the rookie pay scale lessens the financial burden or taking risks in the draft. I know this sounds contrary to Hurney's style but look at players like:
Shockey (injuries): working out well
Newton (NCAA scandal + icon comments): will be the reason we win a super bowl
Beason (questionable character out of college + brief holdout): heart and soul of our defense
Smitty (keeping him around w/ attitude issues). most explosive player in team history
3. Use free agency wisely. Under Fox/ Hurney regime free agency was either use ineffectively or not at all. This has to change and it looks like BAMF/ Hurney are already understanding that. We have many new faces and have brought in Olsen/ Shockey combo to immediately make a weak position a strength. If they can manage to use free agency this off season as effectively as they did last off season then we have room in the draft to to do different things than drafting needs every pick. We are young and building through the draft I know, but young PROVEN talent is available in free agency!
So what do you all think? What would you have Big Cat, Hurney, & BAMF focus on in the future?
Thanks for your time. Hope you enjoyed the post. This is my 1st. I've been a CSR follower for years but I'm just now getting active with sharing my opinions. follow me on twitter @ugklod
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I agree with everything you said (recd)
A lot of Jaguar fans want Chud to be the new head coach
by rscott94 on Nov 30, 2011 2:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I agree with you on free agency. Panthers have got to start being more aggressive in FA. If we don’t sign more talent around Cam we could end up like the Cavs and he goes to a team that can win a championship.
I hope with the recent success of Olsen and Shockey Hurney will be more comfortable with making a big splash or 2.
Vincent Jackson has Panthers written all over him. Knows the offense, knows Rivera, Rivers is melting down and Chargers don’t seem intent on re signing him. Hurney needs to spend the big bucks and acquire Vjax to show Cam and the fans we are not the Cavs and we will get talent around Cam
by PantherTrain on Nov 30, 2011 3:00 PM EST via mobile reply actions
cap
if chargers let him walk, he"s going to cost 10 million a year. we are already at the top of our cap. dont you think after watching all the games that our problem is DEFENSE! we scored 35 2 weeks ago and still lost by 14.
The Eagles sure did sign a lot of FA didnt they?
How are they doing this season?
Don’t be aggressive be smart in FA
Plus we don’t need offense (besides the line) we need defensive help and that money we would give to VJax that could’ve gone to a DT. Don’t get me wrong it would be nice to have him but I’ll take defense before any offensive player
by rscott94 on Nov 30, 2011 3:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i didn't say do a lot in FA
just use it effectively. years prior we didn’t do anything in FA and look @ us. just saying! one or two pick ups and off season to keep talent level competitive that is all. Our CB, S, and DT positions are results of not bringing in quality FA help when the draft fails to fall your way.
In Cam I trust! In BAMF & Big Cat we believe!
I was refering to PT's comment
I like what you said… And I hope we do pick up decent names in FA preferably on the defensive side of the ball
by rscott94 on Nov 30, 2011 3:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't want V Jax
He’s going to want tons of money and he’s been inconsistent at times (Rivers is partly to blame probably). And I have a hard time pulling for a guy who is disloyal enough to his teammates to sit out almost an entire season to get the money he wants. Besides, we have other issues.
Smdh until this team starts winning
consistently( more wins than losses) such as the steelers, packers etc, newton could choose to go elsewhere once his contract is up. Who gives a damn rather Vincent J already knows the system? If Ron R wants him then sure, if not move on. Let’s just ignore defense, I guess Vincent J will fix the defense? He will demand $8-10 million a year, that money can be used for more quality depth.
by adam carter on Nov 30, 2011 3:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
*Rolls up newspaper*
No! No! Stop that!
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Nov 30, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If we are going to go chasing WR talent
Free agency is the place to do it, particularly this season. We should avoid a high pick in the draft on the position, but I have no qualms going out and getting a proven impact player outside of it.
I don’t like V-Jax attitude, but I know he could contribute immediately. Depends what Big Cat and Hurney think, really.
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While I understand your premise
I don’t agree. We have the 5th ranked offense in football… It’s not a matter of adding offensive talent. We need to do what it takes to WIN to keep him happy, and that means fixing that awful thing we call a defense. If we win he will be plenty happy. We don’t have to put 5 Pro Bowlers around him though he already has several.
"Beer, both the cause of and solution to all of life's little problems." - Homer Simpson
How are we going to get Vincent Jackson if we abstain from big FA signings?
Doesn’t seem to fit our philosophy.
If Neil came on this thread to post his two cents...
would that be like dividing by zero?
Newton for '11 ROY!
Walker for '11 ROY! I mean, assuming the lockout will end anytime soon...
Biyombo fo...ah who am I kidding? GO PANTHERS!
by Newsinz on Nov 30, 2011 3:28 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I thought that's what happened when u divide by zero
or is that the hole left in your passing game when Tebow is your QB w/ Fox as head coach lol.
In Cam I trust! In BAMF & Big Cat we believe!
by my2centz on Nov 30, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
God I’m tired of Tebow. Not trying to offend anybody but Tebow is like the Sarah Palin of QBs. A religious fanatic with virtually no talent, skills or IQ (in this case football IQ) but yet the media and people continue to obsess over him. That’s what Tim Tebow is to me, the Sarah Palin of NFL QBs
by PantherTrain on Nov 30, 2011 3:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
This.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I'd take her and Bristol in a 2 way trade.
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oh yeah...
Newton for '11 ROY!
Walker for '11 ROY! I mean, assuming the lockout will end anytime soon...
Biyombo fo...ah who am I kidding? GO PANTHERS!
I would Glen Rice her.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 1, 2011 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
How is that not offensive to people PT? Cmon now.
It’s an awful stretch to call someone with both a Heisman Trophy and a National Championship to his name a “Religious fanatic with virtually no talent, skills, or Football IQ.” That’s nuts. You may not like the guy, but you’ve got to give him credit where it is due.
Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.
agreed
While you personally may not like Tebow, he has more wins than Cam…..Im not saying he is better than Cam by ANY stretch of the imagination. But because he sticks up for what he believes in is what makes him great. You don’t have to agree with him. But he has every right to voice his views just like you do. Plus like Rev said…National Champion, and a Heisman don’t equate to being bad in my book.
Steve Grogan? Never heard of him.
Question
I can"t ever remember a player holding out to renegotiate a contract who is already under contract. I"am not talking about a rookie.
You must mean: has a Panther done that?
None that I can remember. Kevin Greene left over money, but never held out.
Twaa...
I just want three key FA's that can start
A DT, CB and OL would be preference…maybe a LB if TD doesn’t return
DT and LB for me
Address everything else in the draft.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Nov 30, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
I understand the concern about is needing D. But is there any solid defensive free agents other than Soliai that is set to be a FA next year? Sooner or later we are going to have to address our WR.
If there is going to be a stud defensive player coming out in FA then yes we should sign him
by PantherTrain on Nov 30, 2011 3:48 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I thought you said earlier that we didn't need to address WR b/c LaFell is a future #1?
Or have you changed your mind yet again?
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I remember this aswell
Maybe he doesn’t have a flavor of the week maybe its flavor of the day (or hour)
by rscott94 on Nov 30, 2011 3:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No I’m talking about we need more talent atWR instead of just 1. And I was talking about the draft mostly not needing a WR
by PantherTrain on Nov 30, 2011 3:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
maybe Sims from Bengals
hes a quality DT who is still relatively young
In Cam I trust! In BAMF & Big Cat we believe!
I'm starting to sound like a broken record with this...
But Antonio Garay is a DT/NT that we really need to keep an eye on.
Yes, he’s 31, but signing him (and pairing him with Ron Edwards) would afford us some more time to groom a few younger DTs. He had an All Pro type year under Rivera in 2010. Those two vets would make Jon Beason a happy man, as he could be kept clean so he can chase the ball unimpeded.
Twaa...
An abosolute stud? No
But there are quality players available. Pat Sims and Manny Lawson in particular.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Nov 30, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah... gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there...
I don’t necessarily mean drafting projects like AE, but elite talents that must be coached and guided.
AE is/was elite level talent… AT QUARTERBACK. We are currently trying to turn him into something he has never been. I think he has responded well to coaching. When he first set foot in the league, he had no clue how to be a punt returner. Now? He fields the ball cleanly, and is just a block or two away from breaking a big return. He has already had quite a few called back. As far as a receiver? We don’t have regular season reps to go on, but he demonstrated progress this preseason. He needs to learn to make the tough catch. AE is still a three year project, currently in year two. Year one was almost a total waste as he received no coaching at all, everything he learned was on his own initiative in the off season. Patience will be a virtue with him.
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by Tater596 on Nov 30, 2011 4:27 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
Yeah… did you get that memo?
The one that said AE sucks? Yeah...
Proud Member of Cat Scratch Reader and coiner of the (minus Bowers) meme
I'm going to need those TPS reports on AE by tomorrow...
So, if you could stay in laaaaa-te that would be greeeey-t………… ooooo-kay?
I totally agree about Armanti
The only thing to do now is draft Jared Crick and convert him to a kicker, but if
he isn't able to do it in 2 years then he is a bust
With a name like Lesbian I have to be awesome!
by Lesbian Montgomery on Nov 30, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I disagree with you in a few areas.
There’s a lot of absolute statements you made in your post I didn’t like. For example:
Use free agency wisely. Under Fox/ Hurney regime free agency was either use ineffectively or not at all.
That may be true in the later part of his regime, but it was during the first two years of his career here that we picked up many key free agents from off the market and in some areas lucked out so that we got the talent needed to get into the Super Bowl. Stephen Davis jumps to mind. Key members of our offensive line. Ricky Proelh. Jake Delhomme.
He has constantly used FA as a way to bolster what we already had. Even as late as 08 John Fox released the “Call for more Beef” where he wanted our O-Linemen to bulk up from 295-300 pounds to about 320, he continued to try to make moves to improve the team. We even picked up Vincent to shore up RG.
It was 2009 when it all shut down. The Big Cat got involved in the business operations and we didn’t sign anyone in free agency for two years. That as much as anything else can be pointed at as a reason for us doing so bad this season.
Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.
Yeah, I agree with you about FA...
I understand that we signed a few bad apples. But don’t let those bad apples ruin everything, and negate the effects of the good apples.
I feel like it’s comparable to being wronged by a girlfriend. Instead of being selective in picking the next one, we are just choosing to abstain from women altogether. (in this case I’m analogizing girlfriends/women as free agents)
Pretty decent analogy, I'd say.
They both make a big deal about having a contract, want entirely too much of a signing bonus, and they have the option to hold out for more money!
Don’t forget that a primary concern is their ball-handling ability.
Nothing was ever defended successfully. There is only attack, attack, attack, and attack some more. ~Patton
Why is Smitty's attitude issues constantly referred to?
Most of us on this blog have much worse attitudes than Smitty. Some on here would even go fist-a-cuffs on each other if we were in the same room. Smitty is playing a CONTACT SPORT! I marvel at the idea every player should be quiet and humble and yet people complain about those types of players not having any passion, think Eli Manning and Jay Cutler. I want bad-asses on my team, not passive clowns.
I like the fact that Smitty would throw down out on that field. I like the attitude problem. So what if he decked Lucas, maybe Lucas was an a-hole too. Everyone complained about Peppers not playing with fire, here we have a guy with fire and the complaint is that he has attitude issues.
This is why I’m one of the few on here that wants Desean Jackson in Panther blue, he would be a beast in this offense. I think he’s too flashy for Hurney’s and JR’s liking though.
by PantherTrain on Nov 30, 2011 6:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think he could be a great fit here too
No telling how much money he’ll want though. There seems to be a rift forming between he and the Eagles organization, so I think it’s more likely he’ll fit the market after the season. If he can be had at a reasonable price, I’d like the move. And that’s seeming like it’s a more realistic possibility as his inconsistency and on-field antics are likely hurting his free agent value.
I'm sorry,
But I don’t think Jackson has 1/3 the fire Smitty does. Would I like to see him lined up across from Smitty? Hell Yes! But the Jackson misses games from hits Smitty gets up talking smack about. His attitude lately has me concerned though. He’s missing meetings, calling out coaches, and getting benched for quitting in games.
"Beer, both the cause of and solution to all of life's little problems." - Homer Simpson
by Kris Mynatt on Nov 30, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Iggles spent like wildmen in FA, but wouldn't give Action Jackson the contract he deserves... he's pissed.
I don’t know that he’s the best FA move we could make. He’s gonna want #1 WR money. But, despite all the theatrics with T.O., Drew Rosenhaus (Jackson’s agent) for some reason has a great relationship with Hurney. I’d give it about a 10% chance that he could end up in Carolina. He’s definitely not going to be an Iggle next year.
So much to be done, and so few people willing to do it for me.
The Iggles are so bad a drafting in the 1st round.
You would think they would send a good message to their own picks by rewarding their own guys first. We can’t all have great owners like BigCat. ;)
by jdough on Nov 30, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This.
I kinda like power running football though. It’s iike a bloody violent ballet…
When it was working it was a thing of beauty to me. - Vagus
(Please note that from now on I shall only refer to Cam as "The Newt" and Rivera as "BAMF")
Jerry Richardson: "Bitch slapping the NFL one signing at a time" - MMA_Pitbull
by The Duke Dude on Dec 1, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
DeSean Jackson just does so many stupid thing ON the football field
Stupid penalites, and in some cases lost touchdowns because he just can’t wait to call attention to himself and celebrate.
That fool needs a good tongue lashing and a disciplinarian coach. I think we have the latter, but I don’t think it would be enough. It’s a shame, all that talent.
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Steve Smith might be able to teach him a thing or two about when and when not to celebrate.
They kinda are similar, at least when Smitty was younger (except for the fact that Smith was/is a lot tougher)
He was thinner. Yeah.
But Jackson is so small his pants don’t stay up.
Twaa...
by ERL on Dec 1, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think DJackson is a douche.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Dec 1, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Tell us how you really feel
"One step at a time"
by mcdonaldwr on Dec 1, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
LOL!
I kinda like power running football though. It’s iike a bloody violent ballet…
When it was working it was a thing of beauty to me. - Vagus
(Please note that from now on I shall only refer to Cam as "The Newt" and Rivera as "BAMF")
Jerry Richardson: "Bitch slapping the NFL one signing at a time" - MMA_Pitbull
by The Duke Dude on Dec 1, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Panthers FA
I’d argue that the Panthers have done rather terribly in FA. DeAngelo Williams was resigned to a ridiculous deal, when he should have probably been traded last year. Charles Johnson also got a ridiculous contract, the was only 8 Million less than Peppers’ contract, if I remember correctly.
Also, the Shockey deal was looked down upon at first, but has turned out fairly well.
Johnson making $8 million less than Peppers
is very significant considering they have almost identical production this year
Hmmmm
Nope, I don’t agree.
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by Jake Humphrey on Dec 2, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
Lol. What?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 3, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
It's not about production this year
It’s about how Charles Johnson had only one big year before getting the big contract. You should not assume that kind of production if not done consistently. The fact that Peppers and Johnson share similar stats isn’t important. At the time, the Panthers could have signed Johnson for much less. Looking at Peppers’ track record vs. Johnson’s, Johnson should have gotten far less than Peppers.
I’m not saying Charles Johnson shouldn’t have gotten paid, I’m just saying he shouldn’t have gotten more than the best FA on the market, Nnamdi Asomugha. The Panthers could have paid him much less in my opinion.
That's your opinion.
The Panthers could have paid him much less in my opinion.
While you might think he was over paid, many of us do or did at the time, his stats are comparable to Peppers whether they were before the contract or not. But my point is, we don’t know if he would have stayed here for less. He was tweeting all the time about Atlanta. He was from Atlanta and who doesn’t want to go to their home state to play? I am not saying you are right or wrong, but we just don’t know what it would have taken to keep him. As for Williams, I don’t mind his contract at all. I hope Stewart gets the same deal offered to him.
STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!
You’re right about that. I just think allocation of resources is very important. Spending that much on an unproven player was highly questionable. It has worked out so far, and it’s not indefensible. However, seeing the top defensive FA sign for much less made me second guess this contract even more. Charles Johnson could have gone to Atlanta, but then again, he may have been posturing.
Williams was/is injury prone, and the Panthers signed him to a big deal, when they had Stewart and Goodson. They also are only giving each 10 carries a game, when Stewart could easily be the featured back. I don’t see this as a good allocation of resources.
I don't really think Williams is injury prone.
I think they put him on ir last season just to play other players, And to make sure he didn’t really get further injured in a season that was lost. Sure he was injured but I don’t think it was season ending injured. I may be wrong I am just trying to go from memory, and i can’t recall him being out too many games.
STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!
I just looked up his games.
Maybe he was hurt last year, it says he played 6 games. I thought he played more than that. Anyway, here is his games played stats.
2006- 13
2007- 16
2008- 16
2009- 13
2010- 6
2011- 11 and counting.
I don’t know if that would be considered injury prone or not. You all can decide for yourselves.
STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!
Injury prone
Maybe not injury prone, but he’s had his fair share of injuroes. Also, he’s not getting any younger, so there’s that.
It's either pay the man or let him walk away.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 3, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Charles Johnson
Had 10 sacks in 2 years as a backup before he started in 2010.
Carolina saw him in practice all the time, saw what they had and realized they could let Peppers walk.
Regardless of the fact that he only had one good season as a starter, when you have 2 great years as a backup, and a really good year as a starter, you can pay him big money, and it’s not a bad thing.
As an aside, do you think that Andrew Luck should make the rookie minimum because he hasn’t proven anything in the nfl?
Maybe 1 of you can help me out here.
After I read Steve O’s post I went and looked up Wililams contract. Here it is.
7/29/2011: Signed a five-year, $43 million contract. The deal contains $21 million guaranteed, including a $16 million signing bonus and $5 million of Williams’ second-year base salary.
What does that mean when they say it includes 5 million of Williams second year base salary? Does that mean even if we trade him next year we pay 5 million of his salary for that year? or what? I don’t understand why it is relevant to mention his second year, why not just lower his second year and make that 5 mil part of the signing bonus?
STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!
I could be wrong,
but I believe that 16 Million was the signing bonus, but for salary cap reasons they deferred 5 Million for year two.
I could be way off base, but that’s how I interpret it.
Okay so the guaranteed part is so they could remain under cap,
and save the 2 mil or so in case of injury signings? That sounds logical to me.
STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!
Also I subtracted the 16 mil signing bonus from the total and it then comes out to 5.4 mil a year.
That isn’t too bad if you look at it that way.
STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!
The contract
That’s how I saw it. I am not a contract guru, so I could be wrong.
I agree, in a vacuum, it’s not a bad contract. However, when Carolina has a younger, more durable running back in Jonathon Stewart, and a good backup in Mike Goodson, the deal looks questionable at best.
I always liked Goodson but now it seems his days are numbered as a Panther.
I thought Johnson’s contract was a bit much, but as long as he is earning it I am ok with it now. I never minded the Williams contract. He is a luxury, but it’s a luxury they felt they could afford, and I would have hated seeing him go if they didn’t sign him. We have to remember, when they signed him, we were expecting a healthy team to start the year. We really didn’t need much other than depth.
STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!
Goodson
His numbers are definitely numbered, I’m certain he’ll be traded before or during the draft.
I am okay with the contract, because he’s earning it, but I am largely for maximizing value at every position. Charles Johnson should not have gotten that much money for his track record, as that money could be allocated else where. Say, in Vincent Jackson, or someone else. If Carolina signed him to a much team friendlier deal, they’d be sitting pretty with next year’s FA class and the draft.
Williams is definitely a luxury, as Stewart could be handling the load himself. Carolina should have dealt Williams before the deadline last year, to maximize value. But, of course, fan favorite, yadda yadda yadda.
Crisis Averted!
His numbers are definitely numbered.
Well numbered is the way to go, in this situation. I remember back when numbers were alphabetized, and let’s just say it wasn’t the best solution to the problem.
Nothing was ever defended successfully. There is only attack, attack, attack, and attack some more. ~Patton
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