Panthers May Not Have Need for Franchise Tag, Discounted or Not
by Jaxon on Nov 28, 2011 11:00 AM EST
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PrintI saw some franchise tag numbers for certain positions during the NFL Network pre-game show earlier to day and it got me to thinking as to whether the Panthers might need to use the franchise tag. So I did a little research and I found a site that had one Panther listed in its Top 50 2012 NFL free agents:
37. TE Greg Olsen (age 27) (Actually thanks to my diligent readers Olsen is off the market, extension has been signed)
So should we use it on Olsen or should we re-sign him to a 4 for 4 year deal? Olsen can be a weapon in this offense there is no doubt. Yet I have also seen the rough edges of Olsen's game, some the issues Bears fans talked about. Untimely drops, fumbling and can be too easy to tackle. Yet his positive contributions usually outweigh the negative. I'd like to see him return and see how better he can get.
I think this says more than anything the good shape the Panthers are in contractually for 2012. They might want to throw a new deal at RB Jonathan Stewart this offseason, at least I hope they do. It might be wise to wait to see how RT Jeff Otah rehabs before sending a new deal his way. I'd love to think Otah will come back and be dominant in 2012 but I would still love to see a high draft pick for the OL.
I've got a list of 2012 and 2013 Panther free agents and the franchise tag values ... after the jump...
From what I see here are the Panthers 2012 free agents:
TE Greg Olsen
OT Geoff Schwartz (Restricted)
OT Garry Williams (Restricted)
OL Mackenzy Bernadeau
LB Dan Conner
LB Thomas Williams (Restricted)
I'm not sure I see anyone worth a franchise tag here but maybe after you look at some numbers you might disagree. First though here's our 2013 free agents:
RB Mike Goodson
WR Steve Smith
OT Jeff Otah
DT Andre Neblett (Restricted)
CB Captain Munnerlyn
I admit I only looked in a couple places for this data so if I missed a player or forgot we signed one of these guys let me know and I will update it.
So here are the franchise tag numbers I saw on the NFL Network showing the reduced value from 2010 to 2011:
Franchise-tag values for 2012Figures for next season by position and players who could be impacted
Quarterback: $14.4 million (down from $16.1 million in 2011, $16.4 million in 2010); Drew Brees
Running back: $7.7 million (down from $9.6 million in 2011, $8.2 million in 2010); Matt Forte, Ray Rice
Wide receiver: $9.4 million (down from 11.4 million in 2011, $9.5 million in 2010);DeSean Jackson, Vincent Jackson*, Steve Johnson, Wes Welker
Tight end: $5.4 million (down from $7.3 million in 2011, $5.9 million in 2010); Fred Davis, Jermichael Finley
Offensive line: $9.4 million (down from $10.1 million in 2011, $10.7 million in 2010);Ben Grubbs, Carl Nicks
Defensive end: $10.6 million (down from $13 million in 2011, $12.4 million in 2010); Jason Jones, Mario Williams*
Defensive tackle: $7.9 million (down from $12.5 million in 2011; it was $7 million in 2010); Paul Soliai*
Linebacker: $8.8 million (down from $10.1 million in 2011, $9.7 million in 2010); Stephen Tulloch
Cornerback: $10.6 million (down from $13.5 million in 2011; tag was $9.6 million in 2010); Cortland Finnegan, Brent Grimes
Safety: $6.2 million (down from $8.8 million in 2011, $6.5 million in 2010); LaRon Landry
* - Player who'd receive more money because it'd be his second year in a row on the franchise tag, meaning he'd make 120 percent of his 2011 salary
So would you put a franchise tag on Greg Olsen if we had trouble signing him to a new deal? How about Jonathan Stewart or even Jeff Otah?
The good news for the Panthers if you follow the link is that since we most likely won't use the tag it will save us some drama. You can be sure those players who now have to accept these lower numbers are not going to be happy and will most likely hold out. Guys like Forte, Nicks and Rice are looking to get paid and that will not be pretty. I hope we avoid that.
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I thought Olsen signed a 4 year extension after the trade?
I could be wrong, but I thought we had him locked up for four more years.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I was under the impression
That Olsen signed an extension right after he was traded here?
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
You've got Godfrey as a free agent too
And he signed an extension.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Nov 28, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
Greg Olsen and charles Godfrey
DID both sign contract extensions…therefore they cannot be franchise tagged
by bbersin on Nov 28, 2011 11:14 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Jeremy Shockey
I believe, and correct me if I’m wrong, signed a deal that included a 2nd year option…almost like a team option in the NBA…I don’t see any potential free agents worth franchise tagging though
by bbersin on Nov 28, 2011 11:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Random thought that this brought up...
But does anybody know a website that has fairly accurate NFL contract information?
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
They have great insight on most players’ contracts link
"I kinda just sling it" -Jake
by bleed_in_blue on Nov 28, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks
I’m looking for more of a clearinghouse though. Something similar to what Cot’s does for MLB contracts.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Nov 28, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think you're going to find anything that exhaustive.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
(sigh)
Damnit. Why must they make things hard on me?
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Nov 28, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Damn.,..figured I had some errors but not that gross of an error
I didn’t remember Olsen or Godfrey signing an extension and didn’t see it come up on a search…oh well, never mind!
Yup!
Olsen signed a 4yr/$24MM extension on July 29th: http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/6811546/chicago-bears-trade-greg-olsen-carolina-panthers
Godfrey signed a 5yr/$27.5MM extension on September 10th: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-09-10/panthers-sign-godfrey-to-275-million-extension
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Nov 28, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Here Are A Few More Panthers Free Agents To Be
2012:
Unrestricted Free Agents:
QB – Derek Anderson
WR – Legedu Naanee
LB – Omar Gaither
G/C – Geoff Hangartner
DB – Cletis Gordon (on IR)
Restricted Free Agents:
LB – Jason Phillips
Exclusive Rights Free Agent:
CB – R. J. Stanford
Maybe Free Agents (Contract Terms Not Disclosed):
TE/FB – Richie Brockel
DE/LB – Antwan Applewhite
LB – Jordan Senn
DT – Frank Kearse
OT – Reggie Wells
WR – Seyi Ajirotutu
SS – Jermale Hines
2013:
TE – Ben Hartsock
P – Jason Baker
by PanthersRoar on Nov 28, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
I would actually like to see DA get re-signed
I liked what I saw in the preseason and him and Cam seem to get along great.
I want to see Anderson, Gaither, Hangartner, Senn, Applewhite resigned
Other than that, I will leave everything else up to BAMF and Hurney.
"My mom used to always say, If your hungry, go eat. If you can't breath, breath. I wanna win, so if I don't win, I'm going to pitch a fit." -Cam Newton
by Son of a Newton on Nov 28, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Oops I forgot about Smitty!
Our offense doesn't need Steve Smith, with fearsome weapons like Legedu Naanee and Darvin Adams!
"My mom used to always say, If your hungry, go eat. If you can't breath, breath. I wanna win, so if I don't win, I'm going to pitch a fit." -Cam Newton
by Son of a Newton on Nov 28, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Relying on Otah to come back
is just as risky as relying on TD to come back. In fact you could argue it is more so because Otah is not near the physical shape of TD.
jstew is also expected to be FA in 2013
Shockey has also expressed interest in signing an extension and staying in Carolina long term
Nobody on this team is good enough to be franchised.
Save Kalil, Newton, Smith and Beason. They’re all locked up so we won’t be using the tag for a while – although Hurney is unpredictable.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
How much cap room do we have next season?
Is there anyway to find out?
-J Pugh
Follow me on twitter @PughDaddy73-
Other than by searching for contracts and adding it up, no.
And that’s not even guaranteed to be close, we have no clue how the bonuses are structured and how Hurney is manipulating the cap.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Nov 28, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Looking at that list of FAs is very depressing
Man, this team has a talent problem. I can’t justify any of these players as worthy of a franchise tag. Maybe Stewart, but I think he’ll get a deal. Possibly Connor? Other than that, I’d rather take my chances in free agency and the draft to replace all the others that don’t want to resign.
Disclaimer: I’m not saying the Panthers as a whole have no talent, I’m just saying this list of Panthers free agents is very, very lackluster
Iranian Air Defense Site: 'Unknown aircraft you are in Iranian airspace. Identify yourself.'
Aircraft: 'This is a United States aircraft. I am in Iraqi airspace.'
Air Defense Site: 'You are in Iranian airspace. If you do not depart our airspace we will launch interceptor aircraft!'
Aircraft: 'This is a United States Marine Corps FA-18 fighter. Send 'em up, I'll wait!'
Air Defense Site: (... total silence)
by Tarheel Soldier on Nov 28, 2011 1:49 PM EST reply actions
Thats a good thing in some respects.
It means that because of the way the contracts work (and the new 1st year player contracts) that the Panthers salary total will take a huge dive this offseason and enable them to at least get a couple of mid level free agents (on defense PLEASE) to help the team out.
If there were any highly sought after free agents then we’d need to spend big to keep them again.
Also correct me if i’m wrong but from what I saw this offseason most of our new contracts were front loaded (especially Davis).
by Matt Chantry on Nov 28, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
I’m pretty sure all the contracts we signed this past offseason were backloaded, escalating in base salary each year. This accounts for why we have so much more money committed a few years down the road than anyone else.
As for TD, his contract was EXTREMELY backloaded. However this was only if we picked up his option past the first year (which wont happen) Hopefully he’ll resign to a similar deal as he did before this season.
Where are you getting your info?
Davis got 7+ million this year and was due 8 mil next year. That doesn’t sound so back loaded to me.
STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!
Here is his contract.
7/29/2011: Signed a five-year, $36.5 million contract. The deal included a $7 million signing bonus and contains $250,000 workout bonuses in years two through five. 2011: $1 million, 2012: $2.25 million (+ $8 million option bonus), 2013: $4.25 million, 2014: $5.75 million, 2015: $7.25 million, 2016: Free Agent
STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!
I think it's a good thing
It means that the players that are worthy of the franchise tag are already locked up and the players that we have hitting free agency are ones that should be easily replaced should they chose to go somewhere else.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Nov 28, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
no
We just wrapped key players like beast last year. I think the fact that there’s no stand out name speaks highly of the way our front office handles business. I’m happy, save the money for smithy’s contract extension
Save us Pilares
by LimeyPanther on Nov 28, 2011 2:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
All three (starting) tight ends are free agents.
On WHAT OTHER team does that statement begin to make sense? THAT statement refers to the Panthers offensive schemes.
On the other hand, with the rash of injuries this season, you could also talk about all nine starting linebackers, all five starting offensive tackles … STOP, I’m getting sick.
Only Shockey is a free agent
and he was signed to a one year deal, and has already indicated he wants to keep playing in Carolina.
Hartsock will be a free agent after next season, and Olson is locked up for 4 years.
How accurate is this list?
Defensive end: $10.6 million (down from $13 million in 2011, $12.4 million in 2010); Jason Jones, Mario Williams*
Didn’t we have to give Peppers like 18 mil when we franchised him a couple years ago?
STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!
About six million of that was because he was a self-absorbed asshole.
The market value for NORMAL defensive ends is actually quite less.
Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.
I thought that was the franchise tag numbers we were talking about, not normal market value.
STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!
I could be wrong
I think there were actually incentives in his deal that still applied during his franchise tag year.
I think he had a probowl incentive, that made him get 20 mil instead of the 18 franchise tag.
STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!
There is a percentage increase
When you tag year after year. Remember we tagged him more than one year in a row which caused something like a 25% increase on top of the previous tagged salary.
by Panthster on Nov 28, 2011 5:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Consecutive Years As Franchise Player
A player can only be named a franchise player two years in a row. The second year must include at least a 10 percent increase over his previous salary or the average of the top five players at his position, whichever is higher. A player cannot be given a franchise player tag three years in a row.
10% higher than his original salary, or the average of the top 5.
STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!
This is extremely random
But do you guys think the Panthers will ever relocate? I havent heard anything at all i was just bored at it was something I was thinking about. Sorry if its a dumb question.
Not if JR is in charge
I dont see them moving at all but with the big cat as the owner he will never move them. We also have had 91 straight sellouts for home games so if we keep that up then we are safe for awhile
by gaineristheman on Nov 28, 2011 3:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's not a dumb question...
But gaineristheman is right: as long as JR owns the team, we’re not moving. He fought tooth and nail for years to bring a team to the Carolinas, and he’s not going to pick up and leave town on a whim.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
I think
It depends on how pissed Richardson is at his sons. If they inherit the team, then no problem because they have a huge investment, asset and roaring business in Charlotte. Don’t forget they are renovating the stadium this off-season.
However if the Big Cat is really pissed, he designates the franchise sold at his death. The new owner is George Shinn-like and gets no support from the fans other than the local attorneys. Then the team could be moved if OKed by the NFL.
My solution… leave it to the fans like Green Bay and Richardsons name goes down in history. Every person in charlotte becomes a massive fan. Even the ones who don’t care how many home runs Cam hits.
by Panthster on Nov 28, 2011 5:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Even the ones who don’t care how many home runs Cam hits.
Or what is free throw percentage is?
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Wut?
Iranian Air Defense Site: 'Unknown aircraft you are in Iranian airspace. Identify yourself.'
Aircraft: 'This is a United States aircraft. I am in Iraqi airspace.'
Air Defense Site: 'You are in Iranian airspace. If you do not depart our airspace we will launch interceptor aircraft!'
Aircraft: 'This is a United States Marine Corps FA-18 fighter. Send 'em up, I'll wait!'
Air Defense Site: (... total silence)
by Tarheel Soldier on Nov 29, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Fantastic Idea!
They would build a statue of THE OTHER big cat outside of the stadium if he did that!
by criolle johnny on Nov 28, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
Thats what I was wondering
I know with JR’s age and his heart problems I was worried about if someone else bought the team if we had a good enough fan base that they wouldnt relocate them.
The only guy that right now i think is worthy of a new contract next year
Is Shockey. Everyone else, meh.
I'd re-sign Shockey and Hangartner
Perhaps Connor as well, but I highly doubt that.
As for 2013, FRANCHISE MUNNERLYN!
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Nov 28, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Dan Connor is probably the most important in my book.
Dan Connor should be resigned and immediately slipped into the OLB spot to take over for Thomas Davis. The guy is coming off his 3rd knee injury that takes him out for the season. That usually means it’s time for him to be on his way out. I wish the guy all the best in the world, but it’s time to move on.
Shockey, and Mackenzy should follow after. Cam’s gonna need all the help he can get!
Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.
You're missing something...
I think you forgot the sarcasm font for the part where you said we should resign Mackenzy….dear lord I hope you’re joking.
What's the joke?
"My mom used to always say, If your hungry, go eat. If you can't breath, breath. I wanna win, so if I don't win, I'm going to pitch a fit." -Cam Newton
by Son of a Newton on Nov 28, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
He plays a lot of madden
Mackenzy is a 98 strength. Lol
by blackdog2485 on Nov 28, 2011 4:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oh cmon now.
Sign him to a small 1 year contract and search for an upgrade. Let him go when you find one.
Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.
Connor
Isn’t fast enough to play in the WLB spot.
"Beer, both the cause of and solution to all of life's little problems." - Homer Simpson
MLB is his only position.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Nov 28, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Connor can play an effective WLB
And while he may be a decent SLB, I’d rather see us spend his money (plus a little extra) on someone like Manny Lawson and let him and Anderson occupy the OLB spots however the coaching staff sees fit.
I think he’ll jump at a starter’s job somewhere and we shouldn’t be paying him starter’s money to be a back-up.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Nov 28, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
I really hope
We start drafting better depth. Otah and Td should be gone. I thought the same thing about the colts with Bob sanders. Sure when these players are on field yeah they’re good but how often is that? I’d rather take an average player starting the whole season than a star to play only half or less than half the season. it’s unfortunate but it’s still a business. Ask favre
by blackdog2485 on Nov 28, 2011 4:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Otah will be back next season for $1mil
there is no reason for us to cut him. I’d happily throw $1mil at TD once we cut him to bring him back and see what he has.
"The way y'all are lollygaggin around here with them picks and them shovels, you'd think it was 120 degrees...can't be more than 114."
by SouthernPanther on Nov 28, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Otah is too cheap to let go.
But players like TD, Ron Edwards, and Goodson should be out the door.
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Nov 28, 2011 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
I really hope
We start drafting better depth. Otah and Td should be gone. I thought the same thing about the colts with Bob sanders. Sure when these players are on field yeah they’re good but how often is that? I’d rather take an average player starting the whole season than a star to play only half or less than half the season. it’s unfortunate but it’s still a business. Ask favre and montana.
by blackdog2485 on Nov 28, 2011 4:35 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I'm really really glad I re-read this
Only to get the words “and montana” added to it. Didn’t realize it was same post til halfway through. Either didn’t pay attention the first time or the ADHD is kicking in bad…
Montana spent the end of his career playing for Kansas City.
I don’t remember what, the 49’ers got for him. I do remember he beat John Elway AND Steve Young in head-to-head competition playing for the Chiefs.
Schwartz and Shockey
Those would be my two I would hope Mr. Richardson attempts to resign. I like Barnidge, but if Shockey is resigned than we’ll have very little need for him.
Realize this is a dick thing to say
But why is this article on the front page? It is very poorly researched and inaccurate.
Probably because the manager of the site wrote it
And it is very difficult to find up to date free agent lists. They seem to be updated in the offseason and I find it very hard to find lists that are updated to account for contracts signed mid season. The point of the article was to provide basis for the discussion on whether or not we would need to use the franchise tag this coming offseason, and that has been achieved.
APPLEWHITE!!!!!
He and Thomas Keiser give us a very nice 4 person DE rotation. An added bonus is how Applewhite can and has played in a 3-4 def. before. So when we slip into that at random times during games, he easily fits well there.
this.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Nov 28, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
Rivera has said Carolina want to bring back both LA and Applewhite
Proud member of the Panthers Mafia!
Saving The Environment One Green Comment at a Time
'We got to learn to stick in the knife and turn it - Ron Rivera aka BAMF
by MMA_PITBULL on Nov 29, 2011 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
No Need for a franchise tag....
Don’t get it twisted…The Panthers will draft the best available player and if they are not drafting second and getting Matt Kalil (WHO THE PANTHERS COVET!!! AS A LEFT TACKLE AS GROSS IS AT BEST AN OVERPAID RIGHT TACKLE AFTER HIS SHODDY PLAY THIS SEASON)…
If the Panthers pick after that they will get Claiborne…It looks as if St, Louis will get Kalil and force to the Panthers to fall back…Now if the Panthers get back and Kalil and Claiborne are both gone then LOOK OUT!
They will make a decision to snatch up Blackmon or a possible short trade back down to a team like Cleveland…if they cannot get Hillis fixed the browns will move up a few places and trade a 1st and 3rd or 1st and 4th in order to insure Richardson and the Cats will drop back to around the 10th pick and get a LB capable of playing all three spots….The name you will hear a lot is Luke Kuechly…He can play all three LB slots and in the 4-3 and 3-4…..Beason is great but you never know with his injury…if was an achilles and not an mcl or acl…Sorry gang but it may linger…
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