Looking at the bottom-feeders, and their search for offensive talents leaves Panthers in a good position.
Hey guys, Shockers here. I hope you all are having a great Thanksgiving. I have had a lot of free time the last couple of days, so I've come out of the shadows to share my thoughts on the upcoming draft. Instead of talking about the Panthers today, I wanted to talk about the draft position with some of the teams. Knowing the needs of the other teams may potentially lead us to having a very productive draft next year.
The reason why I wrote this article is not to bring up the argument of who we should draft, but to raise awareness of our draft position and where everyone else is positioned to draft. To me, there are notable 3 QBs and 2 WRs that will be gone in the first half of the first round: Matt Barkley, Robert Griffin III, Landry Jones, Justin Blackmon, and Alshon Jeffery. With the other losing teams in need of offensive talent, we may be in a great position to make the most out of our first round pick.
More after the jump,
Colts- It's fair to say that they have solidify themselves for the #1 overall pick in the draft. Unless Peyton plays the last couple games of the season to keep the Colts out of the first pick, It's hard to see Colts passing up on Andrew Luck here.
Rams, Browns, Jags, 'Skins, Vikings- These teams are a toss-up. These teams are also the teams that may potentially end up with less wins than the Panthers.
Rams, despite the disappointing season by Sam Bradford, may look to add a O-lineman to protect their "franchise quarterback". Depending on their position, they may look to go with a wideout to line up with Brandon Lloyd. Blackmon could be their pick if Kalil and Martin are taken depending on their draft position.
Browns are tricky because McCoy was a huge disappointment this season despite the impressive performance during the preseason. Hillis, whether it's the Madden curse or the money curse, has not played the same way even when he was cured from the fatal strep throat disease. Depending on their draft position, may even look to solidify their quarterback position with Barkley, Griffin, and Jones potentially on the board. Could go with a WR like Blackmon or Jeffery here as well, but I do not see them trading up necessarily. They will take whoever is available here IMO.
Jags drafted their "QB of the future" last year, so they may go with a WR or OT here depending on their draft position. Again, I don't see them trading up here unless they are really in love with one of the two wideouts: Blackmon or Jeffery. I have seen the strangest things happen on the draft night, and it may happen if they place lower in the drafting position.
Redskins here will probably go with a quarterback. They are in a good position to grab one of the three quarterbacks here, although Jones may be a reach at this possible draft position. The 'skins will happly take Barkley here IMO.
Vikings may look to go with a star wideout to help their young quarterback develop. It is fair to say, that with AP out with the injury, they will be a good spot to take Blackmon here. Harvin, often a playmaker lacks durability and Ponder could use more weapon here.
I see the Panthers somewhere in between. In addition, there are some teams that are outside looking in such as the Cardinals or the Seahawks that may not want to miss out on the QB sweepstake. We have all seen the Seahawks play, and they are terrible with TJax and worse with Whitehurst. Cardinals took a risk in Kevin Kolb, and are paying a huge price for it.
With these teams looking to solidify an offensive talent on the draft night, I believe that we could simply take the best defensive player in the draft (whoever it may be) and even trade down for additional picks.
On the side note, some of us are worried about winning games (?!) this season. They feel that we are not losing enough games to be in contention. Although I won't take it personally, I hope that we can get it in our heads that winning is a good thing. Let the chips fall on the draft night, but either way, we will be in a great position to grab a very good talent.
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Right on
I’ve been thinking about the draft, positions & players a lot lately as well but definitely agree that people should be more excited about winning games than the draft. Regardless of position we will have an opportunity to take a tremendous talent in the draft.
A few things I see happening differently are the Vikings taking a linemen (they could definitely use another big WR threat but I think their contempt with the guys they have, Shiancoe, Rudolph is developing well & of course AP). I also could see the Browns trying to make a move for a QB IF the Skins, Colts & Broncos all have earlier picks than them.
"One step at a time"
You make excellent, valid points. The draft...
will be especially interesting because of all the scenarios the Panthers could find themselves in.
Good Analysis, The Panthers will have a lot of options this draft.
"My mom used to always say, If your hungry, go eat. If you can't breath, breath. I wanna win, so if I don't win, I'm going to pitch a fit." -Cam Newton
by Son of a Newton on Nov 25, 2011 12:38 PM EST reply actions
I really think the Panthers will go D-Line or O-Line with the first pick in the draft.
We have a heavy need for a dominant force at DT. The last time the Panthers got to the Super Bowl it was with a stacked D-Line with players such as Kris Jenkins, Julius Peppers, Mike Rucker, and that other guy anchoring the line. With our problems in the run game this year, we don’t need just a space eater, but a guy that is going to dominant his opponent and push into the backfield play in and play out.
Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.
The only problem is...
There isn’t a Defensive Tackle worth taking in the top 10 of next year’s draft. The only DE worth picking that high would be Quinton Coples from UNC, but with Johnson and Hardy on board, I doubt Hurney would pick him. If we are picking ahead of St. Louis and Arizona, I would be all for Matt Kalil. And if not, I would still be content with Reily Reiff from Iowa. We’ll just have to see how the reamainder of the season pans out. I say we take the best non-quarterback available. I can picture Marty Hurney’s draft board looking like this (if the draft were to happen today): Matt Kalil, Justin Blackmon, Morris Claiborne, Riley Reiff…
He isn't terrible to me, but i wonder if he is at best
suited to play right tackle more than left tackle. Many so called draft gurus had brain b from the packers as a left tackle in the NFL. But he is more suited at right tackle more than a left tackle.
by adam carter on Nov 25, 2011 4:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Coples is 6'6 286 lbs., we could bulk him up and put him at DT.
"My mom used to always say, If your hungry, go eat. If you can't breath, breath. I wanna win, so if I don't win, I'm going to pitch a fit." -Cam Newton
by Son of a Newton on Nov 26, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Look at my signature.
Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.
id have to disagree with this..with all due respect or d-line is pretty damn good an is gonna be good for a while, i give you, we do need a another DT to rotate but definitely not another rookie, free agency will be the perfect place for that..an that D-line from 2003 your speaking of is very similar to what we have now , very young and very talented .. the only guy were missing is a veteran DT which as you labeled that other guy (brentson buckner).. There are alot of missed tackles this year.. a guy like Paul Soliai (6’4 355lbs.) in his 5th year is a free agent next year.. he doesnt rack up stats but he does exactly what your speaking of..
by tvillemadness04 on Nov 26, 2011 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
Erm.....you actually watch our games, right?
If you think adding ‘another DT to rotate’ will solve our problems then you’re sorely mistaken. We get manhandled upfront and, if the O doesn’t keep the D off the field, the lack of depth becomes more and more apparent as they get winded.
Fua is awful (and I thought that at the time he was drafted – you have to have a certain level of physical ability to play in the NFL and Fua doesn’ have it). McClain will be serviceable eventually, but he’s not ready for full time duties now. Neblett is an all effort guy, but again he’s lacking in talent.
So that’s the three guys we start on gameday. Unless that guy you’re adding to the rotation is an absolute monster it’s not going to be enough. We need AT LEAST two NFL calibre DTs.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
watchn the game like always and erm… dline is looking pretty good again… just saynn.. i really hate seeing fellow panthers fans underestimate the dline cuz there is so much young talent there. its a shame……
by tvillemadness04 on Dec 4, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Games are won and lost in the trenches.
Rivera will know this – hence why he drafted two DTs with relatively high picks last season. We badly need an infusion of talent along the defensive line.
That said there’s simply nobody in the draft worth a Top 15 pick at DT. You don’t gamble with those picks, you take the BPA (within reason) or look for a beneficial trade.
I think we draft Kalil or entertain trades.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I give you the push is not quite there but they are rookies and i feel confident in the Dline.. missed tackles and the depletion of Lb’s are a bigger problem
by tvillemadness04 on Nov 27, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
im not confident in the dline at all
our young dt imo are not talented enough to pass up on a dt on the upcoming draft. i have seen flashes but not enough to let the next season roll without some major changes on the dline.
you said that our dline is very good, but that is where we are lacking. like what oldham said, the game is won and lost in the trenches. it does not matter if hardy and cj can rack up sacks if the teams keep running the ball against us. our pass rush may be getting better but our run defense? almost none existent.
it opens up the opponents passing attack as well. if you watched the games, you see the defense getting fooled on play action simply because we cant stop the run.
fantasy players drool over the matchup against the panthers when it comes to runningbacks. if you let kevin smith achieve 200 all purpose yards, you know you have issues.
panthers simply are horrible, and its hard to blame the rookie dts but you cant overlook their lack of development either.
(typing on my tablet..apologies in advance)
Cat Scratch Reader's not-so-creepy stalker
a.k.a. DeAngelo Williams in the stalking business- agile and elusive
*horrible on run d*
Cat Scratch Reader's not-so-creepy stalker
a.k.a. DeAngelo Williams in the stalking business- agile and elusive
ok we'lll just agree to disagree,, i have a feeling with an addition of a veteran this offseason at NT an having our LB's healthy then u will change ur mind..there isnt anyone valueable enough to draft that high on tha dline.. an adding another rookie wil
ok we’lll just agree to disagree,, i have a feeling with an addition of a veteran this offseason at NT an having our LB’s healthy then u will change ur mind..there isnt anyone valueable enough to draft that high on tha dline.. an adding another rookie will only make the dline more inexperienced.. doesnt make sense to me,, a veteran add yeh
by tvillemadness04 on Dec 3, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
are u watchn the D-Line today? .. pretty obvious there okay
by tvillemadness04 on Dec 4, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Nice write up.
Hopefully we come out of the draft with a big, physical DT, a fast OLB that flies to the ball every snap, a safety that can at least play better than damn Sherrod Martin, an OT, an OG, and maybe a big, physical, “Plaxico” receiver so to speak.
by RonnieHawkins97 on Nov 25, 2011 9:17 PM EST reply actions
very good write up.. i totally agree with the fact where in position to get the best defensive player.. (cough,,KIRKPATRICK.)… The browns have 2 first round picks next year and since they have no WR’s they’ll be gunning for blackmon and still be able to grab a guy like griffin late in the first
by tvillemadness04 on Nov 26, 2011 9:26 AM EST reply actions
Is Richardson going to declare?
I could see him going high in the draft next year if he does.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I bet Richardson declares, but with the premium on RB's, not many teams will take a RB in the top 15.
Richardson has top ten talent, but with the shelf life of a RB being so low, no team wants to spend a top 10 pick on one.
"My mom used to always say, If your hungry, go eat. If you can't breath, breath. I wanna win, so if I don't win, I'm going to pitch a fit." -Cam Newton
by Son of a Newton on Nov 26, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
i agree with runningbacks in general
you can find very good talent in 2nd even 3rd at times, but i think a team will take a chance in richardson with a mid 1st pick. this guy is a different animal compared to other rbs
Cat Scratch Reader's not-so-creepy stalker
a.k.a. DeAngelo Williams in the stalking business- agile and elusive
Yep, I agree.
"My mom used to always say, If your hungry, go eat. If you can't breath, breath. I wanna win, so if I don't win, I'm going to pitch a fit." -Cam Newton
by Son of a Newton on Nov 27, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Best non-QB works for me TBH.
Course I’ve got my preferences. Matt Kalil and Zack Brown are at the top of my wishlist. Hell, depending on where we end up drafting and how things end up panning out, I’d advocate taking one of the WR’s, preferably Blackmon.
"If ya ain't first, you're last."
- Ricky Bobby's Dad
"There is no evidence that the tongue is connected to the brain."
-Frank Tyger
Wow turrible sentence. So tired.
…depending on where we end up drafting and how the picks in front of us pan out…
"If ya ain't first, you're last."
- Ricky Bobby's Dad
"There is no evidence that the tongue is connected to the brain."
-Frank Tyger
by KaiserBromley on Nov 26, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
Ron Edwards
Is also a serviceable DT, he’s not even close to being a pro bowl talent, but he’s much better than who we have on the field now.
In no way is he the complete answer to Carolinas run D, but with Edwards and Beason both back, I think the run D could be decent, not exceptional, but decent.
The thing is, I don’t think we need our run D to be amazing, I think with an average run D, we’re in the playoffs. We don’t need pro bowl caliber players at every position, we just need people who can make a stop every once in a while.
I would like to get a good DT, but after watching this entire season, I’m not sure that safety isn’t a bigger concern for us. I don’t know how many big runs I’ve seen where Martin should have tackled the runner after 5 yards, but he went 10-15 instead.
I think Safety is becoming a need area as well
Ron Edwards is definitely a big upgrade from what we have now and I think he’s a slightly above average DT
If I were GM...
My plan during the offseason would be to address our areas of need in the following ways:
DT - Put McClain and Fua back at second string. Get Ron Edwards healthy and back on the field as a starter. Pursue Paul Soliai in free agency. Look to draft another young DT in the draft, but probably as a 4th rounder.
LB - Get Jon Beason back on the field. Rehabilitate Thomas Davis, if possible, but don’t count on him coming back. Retain James Anderson but slide him back over. Keep Dan Connor in the rotation. Draft the best LB available in the 3rd round who can reasonably cover TEs on 3rd and long situations…and add him to the special teams coverage units.
CB - Put Captain Munnerlyn back at the nickel and use him on special teams as a gunner again. Slot Brandon Hogan opposite Chris Gamble. Draft another CB in one of the later rounds that you can hopefully groom as a reasonable replacement for Gamble down the road…or an additional rotational player for dime packages, special teams contributions, and a future nickel back if we ever release Munnerlyn.
S - I’m not really happy with the lack of effort or production or whatever we’ve seen out of Charles Godfrey and Sherrod Martin. I’d like to see Rivera and Hurney light a fire under these guys by drafting a S somewhere in the 2nd or 3rd round, depending on what kind of moves they make in trading down and adding more picks. Failing that, troll the free agency market and find a veteran guy who hopefully mentor Godfrey and Martin a bit more…while also adding some much needed veteran leadership in the secondary.
OL - We need depth here and a potential new starter at RG and RT. Either use our 1st round draft pick on an OL or look for someone serviceable in free agency who can provide insurance against another injury to Otah. Keep Hangartner as quality veteran depth. Obviously, retain Kalil, Wharton, and Gross.
WR - Get David Gettis back on the field and have him compete with LaFell for the #2 receiver spot. Release Legedu Naanee. Elevate Kealoha Pilares into the rotation and get him plenty of reps in the offense during training camp and preseason to see what he can contribute. Possibly pursue a free agent WR to give us another veteran in the lockerroom to help mentor the younger guys. If we can’t get a great OL with our 1st round pick, target a quality WR like Justin Blackmon instead.
TE - We’ve already retained Greg Olsen. Do the same for Jeremy Shockey. Together, they bring a whole different dynamic at a position that’s gone under-utilized for far too many years. They’re also good safety valves for Cam. It’ll be important to have both on the roster if we want to make a playoff run, and Shockey already has experience with that.
RB - No tremendous needs here. Coaching staff needs to figure out a way to develop Mike Goodson. That kind of speed could really help the offense in some formations. He just needs to hang onto the ball and read his gaps and better utilize his blockers. Deangelo and Stewart will always be the mainstays as long as they’re both on the roster. Vaughan is a useful insurance policy.
QB - We have our franchise QB, but we could still explore our depth at this position. Do we retain Clausen? Maybe. The guy at least knows the playbook and the new offensive schemes. Does Derek Anderson hang around? As long as willing to keep carrying the clipboard, mabye so. Still, it wouldn’t hurt to bring in another late round QB prospect in the draft if we want to take a chance on a guy and either stash him on the practice squad or replace Clausen on the active roster.
KR/PR - I think we’re set with Pilares as our return man on kickoffs. The debate is whether Armanti Edwards deserves to stick around as the PR. Honestly, I’m not sure how much longer this experiment continues. Can Pilares field punts, too? If so, you might just free up a roster spot for better WR like Justin Blackmon or someone else taken in the draft. Once Gettis comes back, they’ll have to make room for him as well. So, who knows what Rivera decides to do on this one. Armanti was never his guy. So he has no investment in keeping him. In my opinion, the team has far more glaring issues with the rest of the return team. Unless they find capable blockers who can execute on special teams, it won’t really matter who’s back there fielding the punts.
K - Is Olindo Mare the answer? I honestly don’t know. He came to us with a highly touted kicking percentage, but he’s had more blocks this year than I’ve seen a Panthers kicking team give up before. Is that all on the linemen in the kicking formation? Or is because of a low trajectory on Olindo’s kicks? Regardless, I’m not so sure we need an improved kicker as improved play from the guys up front. We made a big choice to release Kasay and go with Mare. Personally, in hindsight, I wish we’d kept Kasay. His shorter kickoff distances wouldn’t be as big of a problem this year for us since they get to kickoff a little closer now with the rule change. He’s been as accurate as ever in his FG kicking…so I don’t see a whole lot of noticeable difference between Mare and Kasay. He could have stayed and retired as a Panther. We wouldn’t have had to carry a kickoff specialist anymore. And he would have continued to be a great lockerroom presence for us. Regardless, I imagine that ship has sailed. We’ll keep Mare and see where he takes us.
My two cents,
—Neil
by NSpicer on Nov 29, 2011 10:28 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Also...
DE – Charles Johnson and Greg Hardy remain your starters. We could use some more depth, however. Target some younger guys in the draft in the 5th round. If there’s a decent, value option in free agency, explore that…but, more likely, you can find someone just as good by watching the waiver wire.
Another penny,
—Neil
I endorse Neil for Assistant GM!
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
Too bad your vote doesn't carry any weight.
Also, I’m next in line. Richardson promised me a shot when Hurney retires (or is forced to retire).
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I think that LB could be Sean Spence.
And that’s only partly because I want more Canes on this team (and he’s the only one I’d really recommend from the current team – besides perhaps Washington if we played him at G).
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
What's your opinion on Seantrel Henderson?
A lot of draft sites have him going in the top 5 in the 2013 Draft.
"My mom used to always say, If your hungry, go eat. If you can't breath, breath. I wanna win, so if I don't win, I'm going to pitch a fit." -Cam Newton
by Son of a Newton on Nov 29, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
He's an amazing athlete, but he's been plagued by a back injury.
He’s rotated in this season and honestly looked pretty good whilst doing so (the broadcasts tend to highlight a few of his KO blocks in the running game), but he’s not in game shape.
He’s a sophmore though so he should stay with the program for another two years to develop (which he will do under Golden) and improve his draft stock. Certainly he has all the talent in the world, but a lot of these kids do.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Ten four.
He’s got great size, and I wonder if he will pass up the potential millions of dollars of the NFL to stay at Miami and perfect his skills.
"My mom used to always say, If your hungry, go eat. If you can't breath, breath. I wanna win, so if I don't win, I'm going to pitch a fit." -Cam Newton
by Son of a Newton on Nov 29, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
It depends how convincing Golden is.
The kid wanted to to to USC, but they had to withdraw his scholarship due to the sanctions so he’s hardly a life long Cane.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Great Post Neil, but I disagree with you on CB and OL.
Our Cornerback situation is pretty shaky right now, and I don’t think we can bill Hogan as a potential starting corner without ever seeing him take the field, and if I were Hurney, I would look to FA or the draft for a starter to pair with Gamble. As for OL, I think we have good depth in regards to guard with Hangartner, as well as Schwartz, and G.Williams coming back from IR. I think we are one solid tackle away from having a top ten Offensive Line, whether it be Kalil or a solid FA OT.
"My mom used to always say, If your hungry, go eat. If you can't breath, breath. I wanna win, so if I don't win, I'm going to pitch a fit." -Cam Newton
by Son of a Newton on Nov 29, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
You may be right...
…but I highly doubt the Panthers will be able to address all their problems in one fell swoop. We thought they did something along those lines in this past year’s draft…i.e., they hit on just about every position of need, but some of those guys have panned out and some haven’t. The same wil happen in next year’s draft. We might try for a CB or OL, but is that the highest priority? I don’t believe so. Yes, it’s true that Brandon Hogan is untested. But we actually do need to test him. And, drafting additional unproven rookie CBs isn’t necessarily the way to go about that. Now, if there’s a veteran CB worth picking up at a value price in free agency, that’s surely a no-brainer. Same thing with any veteran OL pickup we can find.
A lot of what we can reasonably expect to happen can’t really be deteremined yet. We still need to sort out or draft position based on how well we do over the next few games. And, we’ll need to assess what’s available in free agency and how likely we can make a run at anyone. Personally, I think a veteran DT is a must in free agency. We already have enough young developmental prospects at that position. And, without a surefire chart-topper in the draft this year, I don’t think we’re any closer to finding the answer by drafting anyone else. We need someone proven who can mentor the others.
I also think we have proven, veteran leadership on our current OL. What we lack is depth. Hangartner gives us some. We need more. Otah is injury-plagued. Gross isn’t getting any younger. Thus, it probably behooves us to take a serious look at the O-linemen in the draft this year. Snag someone who’s young and untested that we can start developing now. It also just happens that OL is a position of strength in the class of 2012 (unlike DL). So, it makes more sense to look for that in the 1st round if we can find it. Even so, I’d be just as happy finding a solid CB/S or WR in the 1st round. And that’s assuming we don’t trade back anyway. It really just depends on who’s available when our pick comes up. Clearly, we need help on defense. I’d spend more picks on that side of the ball than the offense. But I also wouldn’t “reach” for a player at those positions if there’s someone with a higher skillset/value on the offensive side of the ball. Because if there’s an all-world OL or WR sitting there, I’d be willing to take him and then look to address the remaining defensive needs at the LB, secondary, and DE positions in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds. To me, that’s the smartest way to address it.
But that’s just my two cents,
—Neil
Indeed we're simply not going to sort the team out via the draft in one offseason.
FA is going to be big next year for us, we have plenty of holes to plug. That said I don’t think we need to go crazy in FA, just do what we used to: bring in solid veterans on competitive deals.
I don’t think we’re far away from the playoffs with the talent we have on the roster. Several issues have to be sorted out on D (namely the DT nightmare) and we’ll be fine. If an upgrade to the O is there and our best option (especially the O-line) then the team would be smart to take it. We are building for the long haul after all.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I shall now click the Rec button. I have no choice!
Brandon Thompson is the new Jacoby Ford. You better pick him Panthers or you will be doomed to relive the 2010 season over and over again in the Twilight Zone.






















