How Defense Wins Games

by Shockers on Nov 21, 2011 12:59 PM EST

It seems that as we start to talk about the upcoming draft, I see that a few are blinded by the luxery picks of the upcoming draft, such as Blackmon, Jeffereys or some other players who will not impact the game as much as the defensive playmakers we absolutely need. If you need proof, there's no need to look further than our former coach's team, as well as the 49ers, and the Bengals.

It is true that the QB position may be the most important position in the game, but no QB is perfect, especially if your team has a rookie or an inconsistent QB under center. This is the case for the 49ers, Broncos, Bengals, and really many teams I have not mentioned. So how are these teams winning games when offensively, the Panthers have more weapons even without a true #2 WR or a consistent O-line? You need defense to give the QB better chance to change the outcome of the game, and Broncos do it with just 2 completed passes, something they could not do even with Lloyd in the lineup. Are these QBs better than Cam? Do they have better weapons offensively? Unless we have a long term answer at Oline (Kalil as BPA if he falls to us) there simply is no reason to go with another weapon on offense with the first pick.

I do have my own fantasy of having Blackmon and DJax line up in a spread, and have Cam Newton catch his own pass to the goalline but I simply have no logical explanation for that.

I would like to go over more in detail, but I'm sitting at Starbucks typing away while my tablet wont let me type after the jump. Let it be a lesson to us all that if you like Blackmon or have the urge to convert Cam to a RB, you can do it all in Madden, but there is no logical reason to draft someone who probably wont change the outcome of the game.

Thank you.

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Ok, my tablet sucks

correction*

When I mentioned many QBs, I meant those that are inconsistent under center.

Also drafting any other offensive weapons not named Kalil would not make much sense imo.

Grammar Nazis, get at me.

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by Shockers on Nov 21, 2011 1:14 PM EST reply actions

I agree

Kalil is the only player I would take that wouldnt start on the defensive side of the ball.

If the impossible isn't possible... Is it possible for it to be impossible?

by bettergetKraken on Nov 21, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions

Actually, according to who is on the board, I wouldn’t be adverse to selecting Jonathan Martin the OT from Stanford in the first round. Left Tackle is that important a position to merit the possibility.

"I may be old but...eh, I forget the rest!"

by GooseCreek on Nov 21, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions

Also so that I wouldnt offend those in favor of Blackmon

there are greater needs in the draft, but if he falls out where he simply is the BPA, I wouldnt go super-saiyan on you. I just do not see how drafting Blackmon is the only logical choice. So put down your pitchforks, this may just be directed at one poster rather than the community as a whole

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by Shockers on Nov 21, 2011 1:24 PM EST reply actions

I wonder who that could be

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Nov 21, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions

are you supporting PT?

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by Shockers on Nov 21, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions

NOOOOO, I do not wish to do battle.

STICK THE KNIFE IN AND TURN IT!!!!!

by MrBernz on Nov 21, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions

To stimulate dialogue, I'm going to play devil's advocate here...

How would you respond the saying that “the best defense is a great offense”? If you can outscore the other opponent offensively, isn’t that the best defense you can have? It seems that New England illustrates that as it doesn’t have the best defense but has one of the best offenses. Heck, the Panthers got beat this

by jkp1516 on Nov 21, 2011 4:19 PM EST reply actions

*

Heck, the Panthers got beat this weekend because the other team outscored them.

by jkp1516 on Nov 21, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions

i see your point

but the game against the l ions should not have been that close. When the offense puts your team up by 2tds, i believe that defense has to stay consistent coming out of the 2nd half. To put into a perspective, the defense made a runningback they picked off the street look like matt forte, and chris johnson look like his old self, and no chris johnson is horrible this season. It may seem at the end of the game that we are simply not putting up more points but defensively we put ourselves in a hole where the opposing team is eventually putting the game in the hands of a rookie QB and by that time they exploiting the inexperience of the rookie QB. I would say with a solid defense, we could easily be a. 500 team or even better. I really see no problem with the weapons we have on the offensive side if the defense could give the offense more opportunity to make plays. The reason why tebow can turn the game around in the 4th quarter or that the bengals are still a threat without aj green is because of their defense.

Apologies in advance for typos. Still on my tablet..

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by Shockers on Nov 21, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions

Also Devil's advocate,

I see that a few are blinded by the luxery picks of the upcoming draft, such as Blackmon, Jeffereys or some other players who will not impact the game as much as the defensive playmakers we absolutely need.

Wouldn’t a #2 WR who can provide 50 rec. 700 yds. and 6 TD’s have a greater impact on the game, than a LB/CB we bring in who won’t see the field every play. For example, if we draft Zach Brown, who’s to say that TD doesn’t come back fully healthy and regain his starter’s spot. Or if we draft Morris Claiborne, who’s to say that Butler, Hogan, or Munnerlyn don’t start over him right away.

"My mom used to always say, If your hungry, go eat. If you can't breath, breath. I wanna win, so if I don't win, I'm going to pitch a fit." -Cam Newton

by Son of a Newton on Nov 21, 2011 5:31 PM EST reply actions

Who's to say that David Gettis doesn't come back and solidify the #2 WR spot?

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

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by BW Smith on Nov 21, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions

In case anyone has forgotten, David Gettis is that tall fast guy who got hurt in training camp.

He plays WR, and he wears #12.

Here’s a picture of him if it helps:

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Nov 21, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs

I'm just playing devil's advocate, but who is to say Gettis doesn't come back and solidify the #2 spot.

I can’t wait to see how he comes out in Mini Camp/OTA’s, and if he still has his lateral speed.

"My mom used to always say, If your hungry, go eat. If you can't breath, breath. I wanna win, so if I don't win, I'm going to pitch a fit." -Cam Newton

by Son of a Newton on Nov 21, 2011 8:58 PM EST up reply actions

*Whoops, I mean't to say "who is to say that Gettis does come back..."

"My mom used to always say, If your hungry, go eat. If you can't breath, breath. I wanna win, so if I don't win, I'm going to pitch a fit." -Cam Newton

by Son of a Newton on Nov 21, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions

"Devils Advocate" @jkp1516 and Son of a Newton

Ya thats great if we out score teams an all, but what happens when we are up by 3 and the opposing team has the ball in the last couple of mins on there way to kicking a fg or scoring a TD. What happens if we do not have a D Fence that cannot make a stand which by the way our D has not done since we beat Washington and Anderson made a brilliant tackle on 4th and 1. Just playing “devils advocate”

by blitzcatz21 on Nov 21, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions

see my reply above

And actually, no. To me, it is an excuse to say that we do not have enough weapons on offense. We have one of the, if not the best TE tandems in the league with Olsen and Shockey, one of the best RB tandems in double trouble, steve “dont-call-me-mighty-mouse” smith, and cam “superman-that-” newton. We were leading in deep passes coming into half, cam is setting records left and right, and we were one of the top offenses in the league (coming into half). Defense is simply not making enough plays. TD is not coming back healthy after all of the injuries he’s gone through, so you can scratch that, safeties (mostly martin) is out of place half the time, beason is coming off a season-ending injury, there is no depth in the secondary, and our DTs are making every RB facing the Panthers fantasy-studs.

So to reinforce what i said about the game against the lions, we need defensive playmakers.

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by Shockers on Nov 21, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions

to me, it's not about one extra WR possibly getting open

But defense making enough plays for offense to get back on the field. We simply let ourselves play the catch-up game, ultimately leaving the game in the hands of gifted yet inexperienced QB. The teams eventually exploit the weakness of Cam, coming up just short every game. Von Miller is absolutely a beast, and Aldon Smith is no joke either. There are handful of young guys making plays on the defensive side with these. 500+ teams (bengals, broncos, 49ers, etc) yet i cant name one (actually frank gore ill let you have) weapon on their offense that is superior to what we have.

To be fair, i like blackmon, and he will continue to catch deep balls (no homo) from cam newton in my dreams, but he is a luxery pick to me.

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by Shockers on Nov 21, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions

I agree that we need defensive help, and I'm only playing devil's advocate, but look how the Packers are winning their games this year.

Their defense has let up a ton of points this year.
Week 1: 42-34
Week 2: 30-23
Week 7: 33-27
Week 9: 45-38
Week 11: 35-26
If you subtract there two blowouts (Minnesota, and the Rams), The Packers have given up about 23 points a game.

"My mom used to always say, If your hungry, go eat. If you can't breath, breath. I wanna win, so if I don't win, I'm going to pitch a fit." -Cam Newton

by Son of a Newton on Nov 21, 2011 9:07 PM EST up reply actions

Packers are 14th in pts allowed in the season

not to mention they are 1st in scoring. So they have the best offense in the league while they have a very decent defense. we have a very potent offense, but we can not simply out score the opposing team with our defense playing this way.

adding blackmon or jeffereys is not the same as the best QB in the league orchestrating the offense, with jennings, driver, nelson. and finley in the lineup. we cant compare the players we have on the defensive side either. they have much better defense than we do… their yards allowed in the passing game is tricky, because the opposing team is always playing the catch-up game by throwing the rest of the game.

Packers would be a wrong team to compare.

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by Shockers on Nov 21, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions

although i get what you're saying

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by Shockers on Nov 21, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions

I gotcha, yeah.

I don’t think we should take Blackmon or Jeffery with our pick, unless it is a clear BPA Pick. I think the first priority of this year and the next few years is protecting our Franchise QB, Secondly would be improving our Defensive Talent, and Third would be gaining solid depth and youth on both offense and defense.

"My mom used to always say, If your hungry, go eat. If you can't breath, breath. I wanna win, so if I don't win, I'm going to pitch a fit." -Cam Newton

by Son of a Newton on Nov 22, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions

+1 i hope kalil falls to us

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by Shockers on Nov 22, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions

Couldn't you argue that...

The Packers offense puts their team up by so much that their defense has the upper hand?

by jkp1516 on Nov 22, 2011 12:38 AM EST up reply actions

I agree with you

but does not necessarily mean that the defense has the upper hand. defense has its own responsibility keeping the offense out of the end zone. The truth is every time the Packers score, the opposing team has the same opportunity to make enough plays to score back. The game does not start 14-0, Packers. Every game starts 0-0, and the Packers defense does enough to give Rodgers opportunities to make plays. We need the Panthers to do just that, but we are either playing the catchup game on offense at times just blowing a lead coming into 4th quarter.

The Panthers should have dominated last game against the Lions when we simply had the upperhand the first half on offense, but our defense simply doesnt get it done.

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by Shockers on Nov 22, 2011 2:06 AM EST up reply actions

I made a comment in another thread

that should TD come back 100% drafting Z. Brown would still benefit the team in special teams, sub packages & base depth. If his speed is as marketed (4.28 40 yard dash and he looks it on the field) then he would definitely come in on nickel packages.

"One step at a time"

by mcdonaldwr on Nov 21, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions

Great.

So let’s select a ST player who sits behind the starter and gets occaisional playing time in the 1st round. Nevermind the porous defensive line. Gotta beef up that linebacking corps!

by jkp1516 on Nov 22, 2011 12:40 AM EST up reply actions

To be fair

It wouldn’t hurt to add some talent to ST

by JDeLong42 on Nov 22, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions

You're right...but you don't do that with a potential top 8 pick.

The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace

I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.

Follow me on Twitter! @bdubsmitty

by BW Smith on Nov 22, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions

The only reason he'd be on ST

Would be if TD was back and healthy, which means we have our stellar LB corps at full strength with quality depth behind it. It wouldn’t be a bad situation, especially if we can hit elsewhere in the draft and FA.

by JDeLong42 on Nov 22, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions

But I know we don't want to pick depth/ST top 10

when we have such pressing needs elsewhere.

by JDeLong42 on Nov 22, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions

"jkp" Which Is Smarter,Reaching For A DT With Talent In The 20's In The Top 10, Or Drafting The BPA WLB In The Top 10?

Anyone who expects Thomas Davis to make a 100% recovery, and play a full season next year is out of their mind. It would be great if it happens, but you can’t count on it.

WLB LB Zach Brown isn’t just a good WLB with sack potental (5.5 sacks), he’s aslo great in pass coverage, who can cover TE’s and RB’s, along with having the speed (4.45-40 or lower) to cover a 3rd WR (or free up Goodfrey to do it), if they can’t get a nickle back on the field.

by PanthersRoar on Nov 22, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions

Sounds good to me.

"My mom used to always say, If your hungry, go eat. If you can't breath, breath. I wanna win, so if I don't win, I'm going to pitch a fit." -Cam Newton

by Son of a Newton on Nov 22, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions

Truth be told

I see the Panthers beating the Colts, splitting with the Bucs, and maybe winning an upset elsewhere(Houston with Leinart perhaps).
I think if the Panthers go 5-11, they will be out of the top 5 picks.

by Philipkcks on Nov 22, 2011 4:51 PM EST reply actions

I still firmly believe.

This past offseason was about shoring up the offense.
This next one will involve shoring up the defense.
If the defense makes the same progress the offense made, we’ll be deadly.

I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.

by BusyBeingAwesome on Nov 23, 2011 10:22 AM EST reply actions