Addressing the Holes in the Carolina Panthers
by SouthernPanther on Nov 15, 2011 4:02 PM EST
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So I actually wrote this fanpost as a comment on a Fanshot earlier, but I wanted to see what some of y'all thought about the holes on this team and how they can be fixed.
I examined the holes I see on this team and potential fixes for next year. Please comment and let me know where you stand and what you would like to see the panthers do.
WR #2 (w/ #1 potential) – I think David Gettis can be a great #2 receiver in this system when he comes back, but Steve Smith is not getting younger and we need to start thinking about his replacement. Justin Blackmon is one of the best WR prospects to come along in years, up there with A.J. Green and Calvin Johnson (obviously not in the same mold as either due to his smaller size). Aside from Blackmon, Michael Floyd has had an outstanding season, has speed, and tremendous size (6’4"). If we are looking to take a wideout in the 10-15 range of the draft, he would be a great choice.
OT – Jordan Gross has been very good this season, but he has shown his age at times, getting beat on speed rushes around the edge. Jeff Otah can’t stay healthy. Matt Kalil is one of the best tackle prospects to come along in years, and if he is on the board, I don’t think we’d hesitate to take him. Otah has the size and strength to come back and move inside to RG, and lets not forget that we are also getting Geoff Schwartz back who can play guard well and serviceable at tackle.
Corner – I love Captain Munnerlyn, I really do, but he is much more suited to play the nickel. He is simply not big or fast enough to be an every down corner IMO. Morris Claibourne and Dre Kirkpatrick are big time corner prospects (Claibourne is regarded as a better cover corner than Patrick Peterson when he came out last year, just not the same explosive return man)
WLB – Thomas Davis has been hurt each of the last three seasons, and 3 ACL surgeries are devastating no matter what anyone tells you. I believe the panthers will cut him, and perhaps bring him back at a much lower salary to see what he can do (there is no way they are going to ride his current contract where he will see an $8 million roster bonus in the spring). Zack Brown has tremendous athleticism and speed at the WLB. I know I get accused of being a Tar Heel homer on here, but Brown is the real deal.
DT – The DT position has been a weakness for 4 seasons now, and it’s getting really old. It all starts up front, and the fact that our DTs get blown off the ball so easily makes the rest of our defense look worse. We need a big guy who can eat blocks, and a guy who can actually get some penetration. Ron Edwards has experience playing the NT in a 3-4 set and I think can play the 1 technique. Sione Fua and Terrell McClain have been underwhelming, but as stated before, i think a full off-season will benefit them. Unfortunately, this draft does not have any top-end DTs like the last few have. Brandon Thompson, perhaps the highest rated DT doesn’t project to go early in the first. The rest are pretty underwhelming.
Safety - Charles Godfrey has been okay this season, but it seems we are locked onto him for the next 5 seasons. Sherrod Martin on the other hand I feel has regressed. I loved him when we drafted him, and he was specular in spot time his rookie season, but he has severely underwhelmed this year. I think we will give Sherrod one more year next season, but don’t be surprised if we take a safety somewhere in the middle rounds.
Don't forget though, the panthers can address some holes through FA signings, not only through the draft.
So, what do y'all think?
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Yea I’d be happy with either Claiborne, Dre K, or ofcourse Blackmon. Here is my dream scenario as I’ve already posted about. Get the 2nd pick in the draft, trade back to pick 5 in the 1st round and get another 2nd rounder and 3rd round pick as well. Take either Blackmon or Claiborne in the 1st round and draft Burfict and/or Thompson or Alameda Ta’mu.
by PantherTrain on Nov 15, 2011 4:37 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Here is my dream scenario as I’ve already posted about.
My dream scenario is that we win out, finish the year 9-7, and sneak into the playoffs as a wild card team, and win the Super Bowl.
The truth will set you free, but not until it is finished with you. ~David Foster Wallace
I may not always be right, but even a blind nut finds a squirrel every once in a while.
by BW Smith on Nov 15, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
My dream scenario is that PT stops talking about his dream scenario
by JDeLong42 on Nov 15, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
My Dream Scenario....(just got my SI Calendar.....)
Proud member of the Panthers Mafia!
Saving The Environment One Green Comment at a Time
'We're the little brothers getting punched in the head. Pretty soon, we're gong to learn to punch back.'" - Ron Rivera aka BAMF
Goodness, I feel like I'm just picking on you all the time PT...
I hope you don’t take it bad. Actually, I agree with you on a number of things, such as needing a legitimate number 2 WR. However, I’ve got to say that I think getting Burfict and especially Ta’amu in the second is simply wishful thinking.
I’ve been there before, and thought wishfully about the draft and how it could turn out. However, realistically, from what I see Ta’amu is the top tier NT in the draft, and is likely a lock for the first round, especially with the dearth of top DT talent in the draft. In my opinion, I think he’ll go somewhere between 16-32, but I could be wrong. As for Burfict, yes he has his flaws, and there are some other top LB prospects, but I’m just not sure that he’ll be there in the second. I’m not saying that it’s impossible, it could happen, but I just caution against getting your hopes too high.
I'm all about Best Player Available
All of our holes should be addressed via free agency. But I admit its fun to talk draft.
I have to admit I am most enamored with Backmon and Kalil. Either would be dynamite for us.
+1
If I were in charge of drafting, I would probably strictly go BPA. However, I think it’s obvious from last year that we did not follow BPA at all, but rather went strictly with needs. I know I’m going to get hell and a half for that comment from dissenters, but I think its the cold hard truth. If you look at how we drafted, we literally went throught he draft crossing off our biggest needs in order: QB, NT, DT, CB, etc. Additionally I think it’s obvious that we didn’t choose the best players available. Drake Nevis was available in the thrid round, and we passed. He was largely seen as best DT available, and he’s proved his worth thus far. Although I’d like us to go BPA, I don’t know that we’ll follow that being that we, from my perspective, followed a need strategy rather than a BPA strategy in the 2011 draft.
Totally agree with you here, JKP.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Nov 15, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
It's also not Hurney's traditional way of doing things
and it showed.
I don't always fail, but when I do...
I do it awesomely.
by BusyBeingAwesome on Nov 15, 2011 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
I think the Titans game showed that the Panthers do need another WR threat
When Smity can’t get separation, nobody is there to step up and make plays.
if we pick blackmon i say his nickname is midnight.
That is one dark brotha!
"Don't tell me about the pain, just bring me the baby" Cam Newton
by braves&panthers4ever on Nov 15, 2011 5:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Without Gettis The Panthers Don't Have A Good Deep Threat Other Than Smith, So Defenses Can Tilt Their Deep Coverage To Smith's Side
If Gettis returns to full health and speed next year then that problem is partially solved, but the Panthers another good speed WR to backup Steve Smith. Have Edwards or Pilares even caught a pass yet this season?
While Gettis (6-3, 216) is a good deep threat, LaFell (6-2, 211) and Naanee (6-2, 220, a free agent at the end of this season) are probably only average deep threats (LaFell due to speed, and Naanee because of his hands), and TE’s Olsen (a good deep threat for a TE) and Shockey are good to average deep threats for TE’s. The addition of another deep threat, as the 3rd WR (and Steve Smith’s backup), would open up things for them even more.
The problem for the Panthers is that they have more needs than early round picks, so some the needs must be filled through free agency, or trades. I hope they can sign Bengals NT Pat Sims, but I don’t good/affordable free agent options at OT, WLB, or a pass rushing DT. The best free agent WR’s will likely cost too much, but I believe the Bears will trade WR Johnny Knox (6-0, 185, 4.34-40, 45 catches as a rookie in 2009, 51 catches, for 18.8 YPC in 2010) rather cheaply (around a 5th round pick, and he makes less than $600,000 next year), because he’s in OC Martz doghouse. With a great deep passer like Cam Newton, I believe Knox could catch 50 passes as the #3 WR/Smith’s backup, and maybe 60-70 if he won a starting WR job next season.
by PanthersRoar on Nov 15, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
imo
WR- I can see Smitty playing for five more years. There will probably be a WR available in the 2nd round named Dwight Jones
OT- If we’re drafting 2nd overall… draft Kalil
CB- We haven’t seen Hogan play yet. I’ll get back to you when he plays
WLB- Zack Brown is a beast draft him if we don’t draft Kalil
DT- We don’t need any more young players we need veterans… Now if we do draft one I would look into Star Lotulelei
Safeties- They just need a good kick in the ass and learn how to tackle
by rscott94 on Nov 15, 2011 5:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Agreed.
WR- This is tough for me because I think Smitty’s career and production will be better if he can begin playing the slot more but regardless I’m not sure I see us spending a high draft pick (1st or 2nd) on a WR when our offense does so much through the TE’s & the guys we have seem serviceable (plus I’m scared to death of high draft choice WR’s)
CB- If Kalil is gone and a trade isn’t possible I think Claiborne would be an option (we’d be rolling 4 or 5 deep with solid corners)
WLB- Ideally, I say we trade back and pick up Brown and other picks
DT- There’s no way we don’t pick up at least 1 veteran DT
Safeties- I’m hopeful that Sherrod Martin can turn it around but if not this is a position I could definitely see them drafting. He is almost always a few steps behind and if we’re going to run a zone blitzing scheme we need some ball hawking, smash mouth safeties.
"One step at a time"
Responses...
I’m not going to say that D Jones is a first round prospect, but there are beginning to be some rumblings and possibilities of him going in the first round.
If we are drafting second overall, Kalil is a no-brainer. Agreed!
On CBs, I think we’ve got an apt group, but if at whatever point where we are in an could grab the best CB available, I say go for it. Even if this is the first round, and Claiborne or Kirkpatrick are best available, I say go for it.
I like Zach Brown, but not certain he’s the best option after Kalil.
Disagree with DTs, we need to add as much talent as we can at that position, which is our biggest weakness. I’d much rather have young DTs learning and getting experience while Cam is still developing rather than adding young DTs when we are a playoff caliber and ready team.
Response to your response
Agreed his doing work this season and a good combine could rise his stock
Other than Kalil, Zack Brown fits are next greatest needs
I agree we need depth and tallest but who’s goin to teach this young talent other than Edwards? We need veterans
by rscott94 on Nov 15, 2011 6:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Thats fair....
What do you think is our biggest needs in order?
This is how I would draft
1.Kalil
2.Brown
3.Claiborne
by rscott94 on Nov 15, 2011 8:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
*damn phone
4.Blackmon (cause he’s a beast not because we need him)
5.Thompson
6.Kirkpatrick
(Obviously trade down and get Brown, Thompson and possibly Kirkpatrick)
by rscott94 on Nov 15, 2011 8:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
isn't just about everything on an online forum subjective?
haha, I’m thinking by your previous post you’d say DT but the talent available has to be taken in to consideration. Taters post about drafting needs+talent was pretty interesting for anyone who wants to take another look at it
http://www.catscratchreader.com/2011/10/19/2501145/the-draft-value-index-drafting-by-the-numbers
"One step at a time"
Answer: Absolutely.
His statement seemed to be trying to assert it as fact, and I’m just pointing out that I disagree with it and it isn’t fact.
Absolutely, a lot of the stuff on here is subjective, and that’s why there are such great diversity of opinions about any one topic. Additionally, topics concerning the draft and draft prospects are extremely subjective.
If you are asking me what our biggest needs are, I’d provide you with this answer and rank it as such (I personally don’t like ranking in numbers because some positions are of somewhat equal need IMO):
Extremely High Need: DT
In my opinion, this isn’t even debatable. We’ve got one of the most porous run defenses in the league, and the effects trickle down throughout the entire defense. Yes, I know we just drafted 2 DTs this past draft, but hey we drafted a QB high (JC) in 2010 and it didn’t hold us back from taking one early in 2011. My point is, if the talent you have just drafted doesn’t seem to be working out, there is no problem or shame i investing more. The DTs that we drafted last year are sunk costs. DT is the only position on our team that is screaming for an upgrade.
High Need:: WR
Here’s where some disagree with me. IMO, we simply don’t have a threat on the other side of the field. Yes, I know we have Gettis, but he isn’t a bonafide threat yet. Neither is LaFell or Naanee. In terms of building a franchise, you get a QB, then build around him to help him. This would be one of the major building peices.
Moderate Need: OT/OG, CB, FB, Special Teamers
Pretty obvious here. OT/OG could definitely use upgrades, however we can do with what we have. Same with CB, we have an apt and capable group, but we could very much use an upgrade. As for FB, I haven’t been very impressed by Felton. His running abilities aren’t superb, and is isn’t a catch and run FB. Could definitely use an upgrade here. Our STs just suck, and we need to take that into accont somehow, either by draft or FA.
Low Need: LB, DE, S
Many will disagree with me here on LBs, and I’m prepared to accept that. However, we have a Pro Bowl MLB and James Anderson, who is proving to be a stud. Some claim that we don’t have anything else, but I’ve seen great depth this year.
As for DE, we have 3 very capable DEs in Johnson, Hardy, and the emerging Applewhite. We could use another player in the rotation, but this isn’t a pressing need. We are getting plenty of pass rush from this position.
As for S, I’m fine with the players we have. Godfey has been very good at times, Sherrod Martin is decent, and Pugh has been good at times. Could use an upgrade, but it’s not essential.
Very Low Need: Backup QB, RB, TE,
Needs no explanation.
No Need:K, P, LS, C,
Wurd.
Good points, you’re right I totally disagree but I can see (in a I don’t think I’ll ever agree sorta way) where you’re coming from. I just think with our offensive system (TE’s heavily involved, RB routes we have yet to see due to shortened offseason & the # of young WR’s we have) that WR is a luxury not need. I also think DT needs to and will be addressed either by Edwards coming back and playing well or a veteran pick up (quite a few URFA DT’s next season).
On top of that I’d make the case to try and persuade you that by adding some combination of CB/LB/S you’re addressing multiple areas of moderate to low needs (the actual positions and ST’s) verse drafting a WR or DT which will only impact their specific position (their less likely to play ST’s and I may be able to make a case that they will see the field less)
“Yes, preparation H does feel good……on the hole”
"One step at a time"
Hahahaha, love the Dr. Evil reference!
Very good points, I definitely agree with your second point.
Although this was merely my thoughts about our team needs, this was in no way the method/order that I think we should address our draft. There are so many factors that go into those decisions. So, don’t get me wrong, it doesn’t mean that I want to take a DT with our first round pick.
For sure,
it’s all speculation and could change any week (like this week when Fua & McClain come out and are world beaters………… any week now). I wish I could be a fly on the wall when Rivera, Hurney & our scouts talked players and needs
"One step at a time"
If Kalil is there, we take him
Besides him, I would love Zach Brown. Not sure if he would be worth a top five pick. And something tells me Hurney will just go BPA, whether it’s Kalil, Claiborne, Blackmon, whomever.
"Excuses are a disease." -Cam Newton
If we're top 5
Trade down get a package deal like the Browns did with the Falcons and then draft Brown. Nothing wrong with drafting Claiborne though cause he’s not only a threat on D he’s also a threat on ST
by rscott94 on Nov 15, 2011 8:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If Things Fall Perfectly, 3 Top QB's Gone & 1 Left At The Panthers 1st Pick, With The Browns A Few Picks Behind, Then Trade
The Browns have decided that Colt McCoy isn’t the longterm answer, they might even be willing to their 1st round pick, and the 1st round pick they got from the Falcons, to get that last 1st round QB.
Anyone know the lo down on Derek Wolfe? 6’6 300 lbs has monster stats. 7 sacks this year, and atleast 5 for each of his last 2 seasons. Hes a DT, is there a reason why hes not a projected 1st eounder?
Cincinnati DT/3-4 DE Derek Wolfe (6-5, 302, 4.92-40) Was Projected As A 2nd Round Pick To Start the 2010 Season
The 6-5, 302, 4.92-40, and 2nd round projection to start 2010 are from walterfootball.com, but while his measurements held firm, while his 2011 draft projection had dropped to 4th to 6th round (his junior year production dropped a little), but they have now raised his draft projection to the 3rd or 4th round. For some reason nfldraftscouts.com list Wolfe’s speed as a 5.16-40 this year, and that’s probably why they list him as the 180th best player (5th or 6th round) this year. I saw him get a sack over a week ago with one arm, sort of an old-fashioned clothesline tackle to his chest, with only his right arm as an O-Lineman pushed him by the QB. Here are Wolfe’s stats for the last 2 years.
2011 – 37 tackles, 12 TFL’s, and 7 sacks – in 9 games
2010 – 48 tackles, 6.5 TFL’s, and 4 sacks
2009 – 5 sacks
by PanthersRoar on Nov 15, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
He looks like a good prospect running under the radar...
I’d also adivse you to take a look at DT Kawaan Short of Purdue.
Short Had A Great Game Against Ohio St. This Weekend, With 3 Sacks
Junior DT Kawann Short (6-3, 305-310, 5.18-40 WF, 5.22-40 NFLDS) has very good stats this season, 48 tackles, 15.5 TFL’s, 6.5 sacks, and 1 forced fumble. WalterFootball.com projects him as a 3rd or 4th round pick (maybe 2nd round in 2013 if he returns for his senior year), and nfldraftscout.com ranks him as the drafts 82nd best player.
by PanthersRoar on Nov 16, 2011 5:07 AM EST up reply actions
Also, Quinton Coples is now on my radar. What do you guys think of him? grant it we dont need a DE but a few mocks i have seen have us picking him for some reason.
Wouldn't hate it, he's got a lot of potential.
The only problem is I think we are moving to a 3-4 and Coples fits a 4-3. Yet having said that, I wouldn’t be surprised if he could switch with his athleticism.
With a name like Lesbian I have to be awesome!
by Lesbian Montgomery on Nov 15, 2011 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
Ron R stated the panthers will remain
4-3 defense on the near future. But will use some 3-4. You never can have enough pass rushers, Melvin I and some unknowns will be had in the later rounds.
by adam carter on Nov 15, 2011 9:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If he's BPA, snatch him...
Otherwise, look elsewhere. We have 2 very capable DEs and a great rotation player in Applewhite.
DE Quinton Coples (6-6, 285, 4.71-40) Was Rated As The 2nd Best Player In The Draft To Start This Season, Behind Only Luck
Coples measurement numbers have improved during this season, from 6-6, 272, 4.78-40, to the current 6-6, 285, 4.71-40, but his production has sagged from his 10 sacks last season, to only 4.5 sacks, as he’s often double or triple teamed.
Coples only moved from DT to DE last year, and both starting DE’s (#14 pick Robert Quinn and McAdoo a Ravens Supplemental pick) were were suspended for the whole season. Many scouts think he will need to move back to DT, because his start up (inital burst off the line, his explosiveness) speed is a little slow for a pass rushing DE in the NFL. He’s still projected to go in the #4 to #10 range.
I don't think he's moving back to DT in the Pros...
He doesn’t have the bulk for that IMO. I think he’ll make a great 43 DE, that while he may lack the agility of Peppers, has the strength to make up for it. Won’t be a blitzkrieging DE, but will be a force.
I don't see where he has the size to be a DT
He’s incredibly athletic.
"Excuses are a disease." -Cam Newton
LB Darryl Gamble became available today.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/133338/darryl-gamble
The Chargers cut him to make room for someone …
He fits the Rivera mold, young, talented and needs coaching. He also fits a need on a team that seems to be eating linebackers and Defensive Tackles this year.
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