First Impressions: How the new coaches will work with the current Carolina Panthers
by James Dator on Jan 18, 2011 9:41 AM EST
Email
PrintWith the announcement of Sean McDermott, Rob Chudzinski and Brian Murphy as the DC, OC and STC respectively, Carolina Panthers fans wait with bated breath to see how they will rebuild the team and return them to relevance. In the next few months we'll have plenty of time to analyze, and over analyze the schemes and tendencies of the new coaching staff, but today we'll be doing a 'quick hits' to look at three current Carolina Panthers who these new coordinator hirings will effect the most.
Sean McDermott's effect: Charles Godfrey, SS- In the last two seasons SS Quintin Mickell has been the #1 tackler for the Philadelphia Eagles. On average he had 89 tackles per season (Godfrey had 84 last year) and averaged 14 passes defended per year (Godfrey had 8 last year). From this we can see that McDermott places a premium on having a strong safety that can both be a big factor in the run game, as well as play the ball very well in the air.
What we can't fully ascertain though is how much Mikell's role was required due to a injury wrought linebacking corps, what we do know is that while McDermott is working on the blitzes with Rivera he will rely heavily on Ron Meeks moulding Godfrey into a more complete SS. Godfrey needs to become a better tackler, and play the ball better in the air. As most know Godfrey has the gaudy stats, but in reality many of his 5 INT in 2010 were a product of 'right place, right time' rather than truly making solid plays on the ball.
After the jump we look at Chudz effect, and Murphy's
Rob Chudzinski's effect: Gary Barnidge, TE- Since being drafted in 2008 Barnidge has filled the role of 'Jack of all trades, master of none', but even so, of the three TEs the Carolina Panthers have utilized he is the most complete. We know Chudz TE pedigree with such names as Jeremy Shockey, Bubba Franks, Kellen Winslow Jr and Antonio Gates being some of the tight ends under his tutelage, so it should come as no surprise when Ron Rivera said that finding a 'do everything' TE will be of importance.
As it stands Barnidge is not that player. He is still too much of a liability as a blocker, and lacks the initial speed off the line to be held in the same regard as those aforementioned TEs who Chudzinski has worked with. However, he has promise. There have been times we have seen flashes of this ability from Barnidge, but they have been few and far between. When the OTAs roll around it's my belief that on offense Barnidge will become focus 1-A, and will likely be fighting a draft pick or free agent for the starting job. It would very much surprise me if either Jeff King or Dante Rosario returns to the Carolina Panthers.
As it stands Rosario has the most receiving yards by a TE in the last five years with 313. Chudz will want that number up over 600, and it remains to be seen if Barnidge is up to the task.
Brian Murphy's effect: Armanti Edwards, WR- At least for the time being Armanti's role wont be in the receiving corps with Steve Smith, David Gettis and Brandon LaFell it will be on special teams that he'll need to become a factor. In Minnesota Murphy's 'X-factor' on special teams was another sub 6 ft, under 190 lb WR in Percy Harvin, and it's undeniable that he will want Edwards to become his 'poor mans' Percy Harvin. Yes, I understand that Captain Munnerlyn has done a fine job filling in, but he still lacks to top end speed that turns a good receiver into a great one, furthermore, with Richard Marshall gone Munnerlyn is sure to play a bigger role on defense and as such be too valuable to risk in the return game. Edwards has the speed, but has to improve the basics of returning to be a factor.
If Edwards is able to become the kind of wild card in the return game that Murphy was able to make Harvin, and Chudzinski is able to get some production out of him on the offensive end it will go a long way to help fans embrace the #10 jerseys they bought and not curse the draft pick that was given away to acquire him.
What do you think? Do you think there are other players who stand to be effected more by the new coaches?
306 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Re: the TE's...
If Dante Rosario would learn how to block worth a crap, he would be a dynamic TE because he already has the ability to do the “receiver” part of the position.
I think Barnidge should do well under Chudz’ tutelage, but I would like to get a FA acquisition just to play it safe. I’ve been high on Barnidge since we drafted him, but I don’t want to just throw him to the wolves with no backup plan. We’ve seen how that works in other areas on the field, and we don’t need to do that again, even if it is the TE.
I know it’s been discussed a lot recently, but I would love for us to figure out a way to make a deal with Chicago and acquire Greg Olsen. He would be the perfect fit for the direction we’re going on offense, and he would instantly be Clausen’s best friend on the field.
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
We certainly can't afford to make Barnidge our only plan
I think if we let both King and Rosario go, we will see a big acquisition via FA at the TE position.
Hopefully, that will be either Zach Miller or Greg Olsen.
Given the production that Chudz was able to wrestle out of an aging Randy McMichael (while Antonio Gates was out with injury) then I would say just about any veteran guy will do, but I prefer to see one of the above.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Greg Olson names keeps popping up is he a FA? he is doing great in the playoffs im not sure he makes his way out of chi town. Would you leave Cutler/Martz for Clausen/Chud?
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
It's not really about Olsen leaving Chi, and more about Martz not having a place for Olsen
I fully expect they will draft a TE in the first three rounds who is a good blocker or making a play for Zach Miller in FA who is a much better blocker, but a worse receiver than Olsen.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Jan 18, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
you mean the first or third that damn second round pick seems to be missing….
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
He’s talking about the Bears, not us. :-)
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
Why would bears let go of there best Pass option? without him they lose to the seahawks. Martz is a idiot if he lets him go
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
All about Martz’s philosophy.
He’d rather run 3 or 4-wide and use the TE as a 6th OL than have less receivers and the TE as a pass catching option.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Jan 18, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Because Martz’ offense isn’t designed to use a TE as a pass-catching option.
And, the possibility of Martz being an idiot is certainly up for debate. :-)
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
He's one of those outsmarting themselves coaches...
although he’s not as bad about it, over the years it seems to be that he is just like Henning, in that he can look extremely good with the right talent but is too stubborn to change his philosophies, preferring to complicate his gameplan even more
by Tomthehomer on Jan 18, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Zach Miller vs. Greg Olsen (2010 regular season)
Miller: 60 rec, 685 yds, 11.4 yds/rec, 36 first downs (60%), 5 TDs, 11 rec of +20 yds
Olsen: 41 rec, 404 yds, 9.9 yds/rec, 22 first downs (53%), 5 TDs, 3 rec of +20 yds
But again, we know Olsen was not intended to catch a lot of passes
Mike Martz has never featured a TE in his offense that was supposed to be a big pass catcher. He has a couple plays there designed as a change up, but it’s not in his plans.
Miller on the other hand is heavily featured in the offense in Oakland. For both to have the same amount of TDs is a credit to Olsen making the best of his opportunities.
Either way, you can’t go wrong with either one of them.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Did you see that TD pass to Olsen last week?
I would think there’s a place on the Bears team for Olson’s talents. I don’t know why you would assume Martz doesn’t want Olsen… He was all over the place vs. the Seahawks.
Ron Rivera, the Most Interesting Coach in the World. Stay thirsty my friends!
by Tarheel Soldier on Jan 18, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
He's not going anywhere.
All this talk about getting him is premature. He was voted MVP on the team last year, and hasn’t disappointed them in 2010.
I would definitely be happy with Miller as well.
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
We should have drafted G. Olsen LOL here was their for the taking and so was H. Miller a few years ago.
Olsen was their for the taking for us and so was H. Miller a few years ago for that matter. J. Fox never uses TE’s in his offense and basically killed the highly skilled position for the Carolina Panthers before he arrived. Panthers always had good TE’s that could do it all and Fox just never thought paying big money to a TE was important he basically looked at TE’s as nothing more then another OLineman and look at our TE’s stats while he was here and you will see what I mean.
Miller – Oak
Olsen-Bears (doubtful he goes anywhere)
B. Patrick – Cards
K. Wilson -Chargers (lock to be signed by us since he has worked with Chud in San Diego, plus is nothing else he is a cheap vet depth pickup).
Panthers need to spend money on a TE it has only been nine years since we have had one worth a crap. No more K. Magum’s, J. Wiggins, J. King, D. Rosario, type guys.
I am not sold on Barnidge at all and I thought he was a free agent ? The kid cannot block and has a tendecy to catch everything with his chest and not his hands. Still he should get a look at training camp but sadly I fear he will be cut in the end.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Jan 18, 2011 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
I'd like to keep Rosario and Barnidge
Rosario is a serious athlete – I don’t understand why his blocking game is so lacking. He has the potential to be a monster. Also, he has decent hands and is pretty good at getting open and/or making a better play for the ball than the guy defending him. With better coaching and with an offensive plan that knows how to use TEs, he could be a dynamic player.
I think Barnidge was largely overlooked and undervalued by the past coaching regime. I think he also has the ability to be a dynamic player with better coaching and a better offensive game plan.
King’s been overrated, IMO (although, interestingly, 2 of Clausen’s 3 TDs were by King). It wouldn’t break my heart for him to part ways.
Get a solid TE in FA, and work with Barnidge and Rosario.
Blocking
I would guess that a lot of the blocking is mental in that you have to know were to be and whom to block. Some people just understand, some can probably learn, while other will always be stuck in the “what the heck just happened” stage.
If you really want to do something, you will find a way. If you don't, you will find an excuse.
The "what the heck just happened" phrase made me think of Schwartz at RT.
Poor Schwartz…that was just not his position. He was significantly better when he moved to RG (especially at run blocking). Really, the same goes for MacBern when he moved to LG after Wharton went out.
I don’t think either is, and possibly never will be, starting quality. But they both improved as the season went on.
Like Rivera said guys who had to step up and fill in got valuable experience and can go into the offseason looking ahead. Any time could be your chance so you need to be ready. I dont see them starting no time soon but hopefully getting thrown into the starting lineup this year makes them prepare harder this offseason to be ready just in case
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
I won't mind either being kept around as depth...
but yea, neither is ready at this stage for FT positions…if nothing else, I’d like to see Schwartz kept around since he can fill in for T and G positions
by Tomthehomer on Jan 18, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Schwartz could start at RG next year.
He had some very solid blocks, and he’s still young and improving. We do need more depth however.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Jan 18, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
+1
I think Barnidge and Rosario have the potential to be all-around good TEs. I just think they need some good coaching that can develop them and a good OC to incorporate them into the game plan.
when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?
by Panther4Life!!! on Jan 18, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly, and that's what they'll get from Chudz.
He’ll know how to properly develop their potentials as receivers, with new plays designed to get them open, and tips on route running, which he obviously knows a lot about.
If they can’t “get it,” then somebody new will be brought in.
Barnidge is a big contributor on ST coverage, though, and of all the 3, he’ll be the last one they’d let go of. And he was a very effective receiver at Louisville; just not utilized properly here, under Davidson/Fox’s rule.
If they truly want to elevate the TE position to a receiving threat, then being an effective blocker is not so important. Look at the top TE receivers, and they’re not used as blockers. It was necessary last year to keep them in to block, because our OL was so beat up and ineffective at RT. Shore that up, and the TEs can go out, to the open middle of the field, where they can do damage.
Nice thread, James – you bring up two good possibilities for discussion. Rec’d.
The idea idea of the new ST guy molding Edwards into a return force is intriguing – hope he can teach him up. (What’s Edwards’ 40 speed? I forgot.)
He ran a 4.4 at his pro-day
He had a hammy injury at the combine and did not run the 40 there.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Good enough to carry the mail.
Now if they can only train him on how to field punts.
Indeed. I just don't want to see them over-commit to that
If we can develop him into a dynamic return-man, awesome. However, I hope this coaching staff has the imagination necessary to use his skills as a QB, and develop his skills as a WR into a special player.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
I do hope that Murphy will work with AE.
And maybe switch him to kick returns instead if the team wants to continue to work with him on ST.
One thing that bugs me is he literally had TWO chances in the season to return punts. His first is for 14 yards – not shabby at all. But it was completely negated by a stupid penalty (penalty – not AE’s fault). Then he fumbles (and recovers) the next one.
That’s not a huge sample to judge a guy by.
Has Goodson fumbled after doing it for weeks? Has Munnerlyn fumbled after doing it for weeks? Anyone calling for their heads? (And by the way, I’m not calling for their heads.)
AE is one of the fastest guys on our roster (faster than Goodson and Munnerlyn). Give the guy more than two opportunities. He may completely suck and just not be cut out for returns, but two attempts is not a lot to judge by. But being angry over trading a second round pick for him (maybe not the smartest move on Hurney’s part…but it’s done) and calling for his head after very, very few opportunities is short-sighted. He’s proven in college to be a dynamic, physical player…there’s a good possibility for some upside.
After being willing to look to Clausen’s possible upside after waaaaay more opportunities at QB after having his private QB coach since middle school, I think it’s only fair to give AE a chance at returns and/or WR when he’s never done either until this past year. If he sucks after more opportunities, he sucks. But there is not a large enough sampling to make that judgment yet.
By the way, I do think it would probably be a better move to just focus on returns or on WR…just one at a time instead of bombarding him with both after just being a QB.
(And coming from someone with absolutely zero ties to App State.)
by jamiedk on Jan 18, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
+10000 and Rec'd
I hate that my credibility on AE automatically takes a hit as an App state Alum and admitted superfan of AE, so it is good to see someone without any formal ties to him share the same belief.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
I Rec'd jamie's post, too, as it accurately sums up the dichotomy of opinions on 2 rookies, and the chances afforded them by the fan base here.
And I’ve got no ties to AppSt or ND, either, just calling them the way I sees them.
+infinity and rec'd
From an App State student. I agree with everything here.
Follow me on Twitter at @jakehbravesfan
by Jake Humphrey on Jan 18, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Rec'd
Not real big on using him as QB, but the dude is freakin fast and a great athlete. It’s ridiculous he only got two looks to return kicks. I lay that at Fox’s feet. I’m excited to see what the new staff does with him.
by The Duke Dude on Jan 18, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
How many did the others muff????
Considering he had very little game experience to get comfortable with it, I thought he did very well. The other guys who had previous college and pro experience didn’t do that much better overall. Let’s see him play a few complete games and then talk about it.
I’ve always been an advocate of moving Rosario to the slot as a WR to utilize his pass-catching ability, instead of sticking him out there at TE and making it obvious that it’s a pass play. If we do resign him, hopefully the new staff will know how to use him, or teach him how to block.
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
or cut him and he becomes somebody elses problem. You can draft TEs in later rounds and get a more all around player then the guys we have
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
I was thinking that Rosario had one more year on his contract
And that would have made it easier to just give him a shot for one more year. But I did just check and he is FA going into 2011…so that does make it more tempting to just stick with Barnidge, get a FA to replace King, and draft a TE who shows that all-around ability.
But I still would like to see what Rosario could do.
In short, I’m now torn. =) Not unusual for me.
+1
I’d love to see Rosario used in the slot as a WR. The guy doesn’t have game-changing speed, but he’s got enough to evade the LBs and with a double move could also dupe a CB. And we’ve seen how reliable he can be in the passing game.(opening game vs. San Diego 2008)
when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?
by Panther4Life!!! on Jan 18, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
This made me do a double take.
If we do resign him
You English/grammar nerds out there should geth it.
I left out a hyphen, so sue me. LOL
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
Actually you didn't
It can be spelled without one, but I don’t think I’ve ever come across a situation before where they could possibly be interchangeable.
I think it’s even funnier considering they would be completely opposite in meaning.
Agreed
I have always wondered if he could be like Colston. Plus that dual moniker TE/WR would really help in Fantasy Football land…that is if the start were to align…i am going to stop now, I am talking out of my arse, i need some lunch.
by lazerlayell on Jan 18, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
I like Rosario too
A heck of a lot more than Barnidge as well. Barnidge just is the ultimate tease, all flash no substance. Rosario has actually made plays pretty consistently for us given the opportunity. With a great TE coach like Chud, he could become even better.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Jan 18, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Something I have been thinking about over the past 24 hours or so....
I don’t remember who it was but I remember somebody getting somewhat laughed at for their optimism for a return to greatness in 2011 a couple days ago.
However, I have been thinking about this: What are the major differences in our roster since our 12-4 season a couple years ago?
I mean losing Delhomme, Hoover, Moose and Peppers hurts, but our replacements are Clausen, Fiametta, Lafell/Gettis and C Johnson. Not great, but out of those four I think Hoover hurt the most. I liked Delhomme but he lost more games for us than he won in 2009.
I guess my point is that we still have a very solid team and I have hope that we can return to the playoffs in 2011 if we can do these things:
1. Play a mean defense: If this doesn’t happen it’s going to be a major fail on our coaching staff. We have the talent and we have the coaches.
2. Get the run back to greatness: We seen flashes of it in 2010 but nothing like the previous two years. Again, we have the players.
3. Make progress in the passing game: If we can get Clausen into a situation like Sanchez has with the Jets we could make huge strides. I am very happy with the fact that our new OC is a TE guru. I think our passing game in 2010 was a combination of plays being called that required more time than the line was able to give and too much youth at both QB and WR. I am holding on to hope that Jimmy/Gettis/Lafell will improve enough and that the new coaching staff will implement a game plan designed to have some success.
4. Depth: It seems every year that we have really struggled we have a lot of guys down on injuries and it shows. Our 12-4 season we had a couple injuries but the guys that stepped in did their job.
Anyhow, maybe it’s homerism but I am not ready to sell this team out as a rebuilding year and expect no better than a 6-10 record. I think the organization has shown some fire in hiring the new staff and to me it looks like a staff that is going to develop our guys and instill some confidence in them!
by MindMachine on Jan 18, 2011 10:04 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
THIS
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
we lost a lot of veterans but i can see your point me personally im shooting for .500 if we go above that ill be ecstatic. we did go 2-14. Coaching staff wasn’t on the field.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
True
But… look at the vets we lost (other than the depth).
Delhomme for Clausen: Neither is great, a lot of this is riding on the new coaching staff being able to make Clausen into a game manager at the very least.
Peppers for Johnson: Do I need to explain?
Moose for Lafell/Gettis: A bit of a drop here, but Moose was on his way out anyhow and I hope that between the two young guys we have something.
Hoover for Fiametta: This is our biggest loss to me, Hoover opened up some big holes for Double Trouble and I did see Fiametta miss quite a few… again hopefully with a year under his belt he will improve.
You could also argue the loss of Chris Harris, but I think our safety position is decent. I’ve seen a bit of hate on both of our guys back there, but personally I like both of them. We need to replace Marshall but other than him I have no issue with our secondary.
I just think if the team plays their cards right we could be the dark horse of the NFC (why not Tampa did it, true the missed the playoffs but I like our roster a whole lot better than theirs).
Obviously we need 2 DT’s a CB and some depth around a number of places, but lets hope the team addresses that as aggressively as they have the coaching staff and that this staff of “teachers” can improve these guys. I mean look at all the youth on this team, if everybody on the team could improve 10-15% that would help tremendously.
by MindMachine on Jan 18, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Missed one
Kendrick Vincent. Not a superstar by any means on the OL, but usually played solid.
Running wise, he would've been nice to have...
pass blocking though? he was a turnstile
by Tomthehomer on Jan 18, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
And to the 'Coaching staff wasn't on the field' comment...
This is true, but it is on the coaching staff to put the players in a position to win and it is also on the coaching staff to develop the players abilities.
In my eyes, they failed at both in 2010.
by MindMachine on Jan 18, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Players played until the last whistle of the final game fact is certain guys just didnt get it done. On both sides of the ball.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not arguing with you...
There were certainly short comings… more so on the offensive side of the ball than the defensive side…
However, when I look at the offense, I saw a QB that didn’t look prepared (coaching), receivers running wrong routes at times (coaching).
But the biggest thing I notice was a lot of our pass plays were play action down the field plays.
The play action takes a little time to develop in the first place and then you have to wait for the receiver to finish his route. More often than not the defense was on Clausen before the play had developed and he had to either check down or take the sack. Now if I was an OC (which I’m obviously not), I would see that happen once or twice and start calling more short slants and 3 step drop type of passes utilizing TE’s and slot receivers. At least get 2-5 yards instead of a sack or an incompletion.
But yes, MMA_PITBULL you have a point, the players were on the field and didn’t win the games, but by that reasoning we would need to overhaul our whole roster to have success.
by MindMachine on Jan 18, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
rookies have this mistakes. You can lead a horse to water nut iyou cant make them drink. WR’s caught on late Clausen never really did. Im not saying Fox and o had nothing to do with it im just saying the players got to own up for there own faults and improve in the offseason or it wont matter who is coaching
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
but you*
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Right...
Which also falls into what I was saying… that the new coaching staff can help develop these players enough to be efficient. Clausen/Gettis/Lafell are no longer rookies.
A lot rides on the players for sure, but I am hoping a year learning from their experiences couple with a coaching staff that puts them in a BETTER position to win will bring our passing game to a place of efficiency.
Like I said, more of a Jets style passing game with a strong running game. If Clausen can get a couple passes out to TE’s and at least make the defense pay (if even a little) for sending the house or stacking the box it’s going to open up the entire offense.
But again, I completely agree with you, the players need to improve too, but I believe they can and will.
by MindMachine on Jan 18, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
im just being argumentative because its been a long night you make good points as did i. New staff is going to benefit from a lot of rookies earning some exp on another coachs record.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
No worries
I’m not one to get upset and defend my opinion to the death, I just like to explain where I’m coming from on it.
Most if it lies in the fact that I look forward to football season all year long and can’t go in to a year thinking “there is no way we even have a shot this year”.
by MindMachine on Jan 18, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
oh i think we will finish with a much better record then this year i just am not sold we are sniffing the playoffs until we make some moves that fill some gapping needs on the field.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
Indeed
We still need to fill the holes at DT and CB as well as get some solid depth.
by MindMachine on Jan 18, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Young guys with little experience need teachers. We've now got teachers.
Fox and his guys weren’t into teaching rookies; they were into supervising veterans.
I’d imagine the younger players on the Panthers are eagerly looking forward to hearing how the new coaches/teachers can help them.
But they’re not rookies, anymore, and must step up now. No more excuses.
This year's rookies who had the opportunity to play are no longer rookies.....
Some rookies were not given the chance to work through the “rookie” mistakes and inexperience on the field. Just practicing in a pro setting is not the same as getting the “on field game experience”; therefore, there will be some second year rookies going into training camp next season.
I was speaking more of Clausen and the 2 WRs.
Edwards, Norwood, and Pike hardly got any experience – I’d still classify them as newbies.
Hardy and Pugh are pretty well acclimated to what’s required of them.
Norwood did well on ST
Interesting enough NFL.com has him at DE now……..
East Carolina Pirates - No Quarter
by RjTheMetalhead on Jan 18, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Does NFL.com classify anyone has a "hybrid" player?
If not, I wouldn’t be surprised at them listing him as a DE…it seemed like he spent more time there than at LB.
I'm remaining cautiously optimistic.
I think we have a chance to surprise like the Bucs and Lions this year, but we have a crazy hard schedule. Injuries and stuff changes everything, but right now from where I’m standing it looks like 6 wins best case. A lot can and will change, but it’s going to be a huge uphill battle.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Jan 18, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
Our SOS was weak as hell this time last year
and we ended up with one of the stronger ones in the league; we could be looking at a creampuff schedule come next october. It’s just hard to put much stock into a schedule before the offseason has even started…
Jimmy Clausen
I think Jimmy Clausen will benefit greatly from this new coaching staff. No longer will he be forced to run a dumbed down offense of predicatibility-run, run, pass on third and impossible. Chudz will probably incoporate some West Coast into this offense. Short to intermeidate throws. Thats where Clausen has always excelled. Heck look at Brees, Rodgers, Manning, etc.. Thats how these guys dissect teams all time! This staff will do everything in their power to ensure Jimmy or whoever the QB is will have some tools he can work with. With a much improved coaching staff and play from players, Clausen should in theory, be much better.
I agree
I am not convinced that Clausen will ever be a Drew Brees or Peyton Manning, but I think given the right game plan and a coaching staff that will help develop him and call the right plays for him he could be an effective Mark Sanchez or Ben Rothlisberger type of passer (not Ben’s ability to break tackles and extend the play but his passing ability)
by MindMachine on Jan 18, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
I would be curious...
To see what Clausen might be able to do re:breaking tackles and extending plays if he gained about 10 more pounds.
Same goes for Pike…his height is a major advantage for him. If he gained about 10-15 pounds (partially by adding arm muscle), I think he might look like a totally different player than he did in last year’s preseason. He’s had a whole year of observation and a clipboard. It’s something to at least ponder.
id expect both men to hit the weight rooms this offseason. if i was the staff id make it mandatory
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
To be honest with you....
It’s JR’s obsession with the Steelers that makes me a little concerned that they will take a look at Cam Newton.
He seems like a Rothlisburger style QB, not great, but a big QB that can extend the play by being difficult to bring down, can run and throw the ball effectively.
Plus he has character issues just like Ben. lol
There are worse guys we could draft, but I just don’t think Newton is #1 worthy, especially after taking two QB’s last year, but that thought has crossed my mind.
But yeah, I’m interested to see what Clausen does next year. He really has nowhere to go but up, he’ll either make improvements or become a career backup in 2011.
by MindMachine on Jan 18, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
JR admires the Steelers from an organizational standpoint, but he'll never get involved in personnel decisions
I wouldn’t worry too much I don’t think JR will ever tell Hurney who to draft
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Jan 18, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I hear ya
It’s just a thought that has crossed my mind.
by MindMachine on Jan 18, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
I can understand why... for sure.
Darin Gantt has been saying this offseason that he’s hearing the influence is the Atlanta Falcons, rather than the Steelers. If we hired, say… Russ Grimm, then I might have been getting concerned that he’s obsessed with Pittsburgh, but if the model has been Mike Smith then the same situation applies.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Jan 18, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
So where is our Matt Ryan? Banging his gf on architectural table somewhere i bet
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Well...
Those tables can be angled nicely.
......
angled up his educated insurance policy having ass
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
im not being negative on Luck in serious form. just jokes
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
No...I understand. =)
The guy’s talented, and it’s not a crime to want to finish up a degree and live up the college life while you have the opportunity.
I don’t really begrudge him. Just our loss (and I still would like to think his loss…to some extent).
One of Clausen's major faults
is that he is one of the most unathletic QB’s I have ever seen play the game. I’m sure the toe injury played a part, but he literally was tripping over his own feet back there. He might be able to extend the play more if he put on a few pounds of muscle (preferably on his arm), but not by much.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Jan 18, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
He needs to learn to step up in the pocket too. He has a horrible habit of running backwards and getting sacked (the David Carr).
It's called scotophobia (fear of darkness)
Or in his case, maybe the closely related, scorophobia.
I think that'll get better once he learns to trust his line.
He didn’t have much of a reason to this year.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Jan 19, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Agree
Clausen’s best attribute was supposedly his understanding of the pro-style game. Hopefully the new coaching staff plays that up. If he doesn’t come through, we move on.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Hanlon's Razor
TE..Rudolph?Miller?Cam Newton? (joke)
3 men enter and only 1 will remain. Who? i honestly don’t care. All 3 are mediocre TE’s at best. I want some new blood. We haven’t had a all around TE since Wesley Walls. Draft or sign a TE and start anew. Who knows the damage done to King ,Rossario , and Barnidge being in this 3 for all system. I want a guy from day 1 knowing you got to have all phases.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
Go get Olsen from CHI.
Assuming Martz stays with the Bears, Olsen might be on the way out. I’m sure the coaching staff and front office will be filtering through the best available options at TE (and other spots) this offseason.
Let me hold about tree-fiddy?
I'd be happy with Miller or Lewis.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Hanlon's Razor
Keep hearing of getting TEs Olsen, Miller, Lewis, or Davis.
Miller, Lewis, and Davis all put up comparable stats. Lewis will be retained by Jacksonville and Davis the same in San Fran. Miller outshines Olsen when you look at the two against each other. I know not many folks on the East Coast have seen Miller play much, but believe me when I say he would be a perfect fit in the new expanded Carolina offense.
Let me show you some comparisons among Barnidge, Olsen, and Zach Miller:
First of all, they’re all 6’5", and about the same weight (Olsen and Miller are listed at 255, Barnidge at 247)
They’re born in 1985 (Olsen in March, Barnidge in September, Miller the youngest in December)
I’m going to try and make the point that, had he been used differently, Barnidge could have/would have been just as effective than either of the other two. Hear are my sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Barnidge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Olsen_%28American_football%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zach_Miller
I’m concentrating here on their college careers, to judge their potential as TE receiving threats in the NFL. Obviously the other 2 have way outperformed Barnidge thus far, but that’s because they’ve been in the game plan, not because they’re better. He showed he HAD the potential; it just wasn’t utilized.
Olsen’s stats at Miami were: 87 catches, for 1215 yds, 13.97 YPC average, and 6 TDs. (As a Chicago Bear, he’s averaged 10.2 YPC, in 3 years.)
Miller’s stats at Arizona St were: 144 catches, for 1512 yds, 10.5 YPC average, 14 TDs. (As a Raider, he’s averaged 12.0 YPC in 4 years.)
Barnidge’s stats at Louisville were: 108 catches, for 1491 yds, 13.81 YPC average, 17 TDs. (As a Panther, he’s had a career YPC average of 20.2 in 3 years, but all that was in ’09, never having caught a pass in ’08 or 2010.)
The other two have registered many TDs in their pro careers so far, and Gary has not had even one yet.
But considering all the above, albeit from their college careers, isn’t it conceivable that Gary could be coached by Chudz, and used in a game plan that could involve him more, and allow him to produce comparable or better results than the other two? (And not necessitating any trades for one of the other guys, which would certainly be expensive.)
by bigdavis on Jan 18, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He's got the same size; he's got the same youth; he scored more TDs in college than either, and almost as many as the 2 combined.
He’s got untapped upside.
Use him, Chudz.
If there's anything there
Chud will bring it out and make him into a weapon for Clausen, et al to use.
Follow me on Twitter at @jakehbravesfan
by Jake Humphrey on Jan 18, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Barnidge should be kept and developed. Definitely!
I do think that the Panthers need to let King and Rosario move on. Then the Panthers need to go FA for a proven quality TE that can both block and catch. Barnidge would definitely be used more on the offense as well as continueing to play on ST. Hopefully two TE sets can be utilized more in the red zone as receivers and blockers.
All the more reason we can tout the hire of this new OC
Only thing we need to be reluctant about is that Barnidge is not proven yet. Being a former TE coach, Chud is going to come in here and want to feature one heavily. Barnidge might not be ready for that just yet, not based on talent, just based on lack of PT. We should bring in a FA TE that we can get for a decent price to play until Gary is ready. Then, hopefully they both end up being great players and we become rich at the TE spot.
The NFL proved this year that if you are going to feature pass-catching TEs, you need a solid backup for when they get hurt. A lot of TEs this year got hurt, and teams relied on solid backups to fill the roles. Randy McMichael for the Chargers, Donald Lee for the Packers, Jimmy Graham for the Saints, and especially Jacob Tamme for the Colts really stepped up this year after injury to the primary starter.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
And incorporating a TE will help out
Whoever our QB is A LOT. Having a TE that you trust is like a big security blanket for a QB.
Follow me on Twitter at @jakehbravesfan
by Jake Humphrey on Jan 18, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Rosario fits the backup mold perfectly.
Heck I think he could be a starter, but that might just be me.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Jan 18, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
Good quick hits James, I agree with all, a note on the impact of the Fire Zone defense...
It would be great to see Armanti make his impact on special teams… god knows we need to find that dynamic return man. Hopefully he gets his chances at WR as well, and maybe even a little QB action now that we have an imaginative coaching staff.
That said… i think the guys that will see the most change in how they play the game due to the McDermott hiring will be our DEs.
In a fire zone defense, quite often you expect one or both DEs to drop back into a short zone coverage while sending a linebacker/safety to blitz in their place. The hope being that you confuse the blockers and the scheme and end up with a huge hole off the edge or the interior in which to break up the play. To this end, Greg Hardy, Everette Brown, Charles Johnson, and possibly Eric Norwood are going to have to develop some decent short zone coverage skills. For that fire zone to be effective, you have to get decent coverage from those DEs to prevent the quick release to a quick slant route. If they can close off that first outlet, then the QB should be toast with a barrage of defenders in his face.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
I saw them drop Johnson back into coverage way more than I was comfortable with this year.
So he’s had some practice.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Jan 18, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
We did it with Hardy maybe 3-4 times.
East Carolina Pirates - No Quarter
by RjTheMetalhead on Jan 18, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Had to do it more than that
I noticed him in coverage more times than I wanted to see..
A lot of Panther fans, at the moment, are like a guy that just had his heart shattered. Like a guy whose girlfriend just cheated on him, and then left him. Pissed off!! And now trying to snatch up anything that moves.
Be careful... You might bring home something out of desparation, and find out in the morning you made a BIIIIIIG mistake!
if i have to hear about Julius Peppers one more time on ESPN and guys talking about wow i wish he was on my team..He talented he is but come on where was this love when he was in Carolina? He got respect but now people hang on his jock
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
+1
I’ll take a hard working Charles Johnson over him any day of the week.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
Me too...
That said, I did like Peppers… the only Panthers jersey I’ve ever owned, but it did get under my skin how he wouldn’t show up in games and I personally think Peppers made the Pro Bowl on name alone because Johnson out played him all year IMO.
by MindMachine on Jan 18, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Chicago > Carolina record wise and defense rankings
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest
Look how many Cowboys make the roster every year. Even when they suck.
When don’t the Cowboys suck? one playoff win since 1996…Umm that SUCKS. Overated ass football team i ever did see. Jerry Jones pockets must be never ending with the amount of money he is dumping in that money pit.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Yes yes, I know the drill
Its the same thing the way the media is talking about certain teams right now like SF, Denver and Dallas even though they are bottom feeders like us.
Personally I think we’ve made a lot more progress than those teams with our hirings but we aren’t sexy to talk about… which is fine, I like the Panthers being the dark horse.
by MindMachine on Jan 18, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
I think Johnson had a great year
But I disagree with the notion that he outplayed Pep. He may have out hustled him, but not outplayed him. Pep has a significant impact on the opposing team’s offensive gameplan. Rose colored glasses might obscure that for the homer, and lord know I freakin love the Panthers (to an unhealthy level possibly). But Pep is worthy of the praise and if you can’t see it, I can’t explain it in a way to make it clear for you.
by adamwanderer on Jan 18, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
The issue is "Is he worth what he gets paid?"
and for as much of an impact as he can have on an opposing offense, the reality is he is not worth what he is getting paid; The lack of any interior rush on DL this year I think has all boosted our opinions of CJ more than just simply looking at his sack total (that and…he’s not turning down offers to become the highest paid defensive player in the league two years in a row) :p
by Tomthehomer on Jan 18, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
plenty of guys in the league disrupt offenses and have game plans built around them they also delivered game in and game out. Peppers is like a magic 8ball the results are cloudy at best.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
which is disappointing because based on physical tools, he should’ve been the greatest DE ever…
by Tomthehomer on Jan 18, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
I posted it below
In “unofficially tracked stats” one of which is QB pressures on passing downs(passes which incorporate downfield passes i.e. not smoke routes or screens – these are still not past week 14 yet) he led the league. Second was Chris Long and third was Cameron Wake. No one else was even close. Frankly the guys in second and third weren’t that close. “Unofficially” he generates pressure on the QB to force an early pass or errant throw on 44% of downfield pass attempts. That’s Suh collegiate numbers. That next closest was 37%.
Admittedly Im putting words in you mouth here, but I get the impression that you simply do not want to see how much he impacts the game.
by adamwanderer on Jan 18, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Basically you been on his Dong since he stepped foot at UNC am i right or am i right or am i right? you take your 85 million dollar man and ill spread mine around on players who play to the whistle every down and earn what they get and not skate by on athletics alone. Pepper is a insane talent and a top level DE but he isn’t worth the buck. The damn Chicago writers were writing dirty columns on Peppers earlier in the season before he had a 3 sack game and it all went away. One game stats dont make up for a season of inconsistency thats who he is and always will be.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
I haven't "been on his dong" I'm just objectively viewing his playmaking
abilities without letting my personal opinions obscure my thinking. So I would say you are wrong, you are wrong. I also possess the ability to counter an argument without resorting personal insults. Try it some time.
by adamwanderer on Jan 18, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
One thing you'll find interesting adam
I can’t honestly remember whether it was a comment or an article (I cant find it now) but last offseason I did a comparison of Peppers v. Charles Johnson comparing sacks, QB hits and QB pressures (all of which were tracked at Pro Football Focus).
Sadly, PFF are a paid site now (and want too much money) but in comparing the 2009 season of each it found that by % of snaps Johnson actually pressured the QB more than Peppers. I want to say it was something like 11% vs. 8% of snaps Johnson got a pressure (sack, hit or pressure) vs. Peppers.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Jan 18, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Not that we need to start the Pep thing again
But in 2009 Charles Johnson played predominantly on third down and medium or long yardage, and was fresh in doing so. You expect him to come in as a part-time player and be fresh and get after the QB. Also, many of the downs Pep played were running plays, and unless I’m missing something its impossible to pressure the QB on a running play.
Throw out all the running plays both players played, and I’m sure the numbers paint a different picture.
Let me hold about tree-fiddy?
I seem to remember Jenkins pressuring the QB on running plays!
lol, I know thats the exception to the rule, but that was awesome when he could break up a handoff.
by MindMachine on Jan 18, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
When he was healthy and motivated there was not a better DT in the game.
Let me hold about tree-fiddy?
Throw out all the running plays both players played, and I’m sure the numbers paint a different picture.
They dont, I only evaluated passing downs.
However, the ‘fresh’ aspect is a good one, as is the argument that Pep was focused on far more.
But yes, lets not dig this whole thing up again.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Jan 18, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I remember the article
They are putting together one now for this season. The writers are still gathering data, but the “passing downs” were factoring out smoke routes, screens or short drop throws as pressure isn’t viable in those situations. This season Pep is blowing away the field.
But yes. Please let’s drop the Pep thing. Truly a thin line between love and hate. I just hope it doesn’t pop up with D-Will should he end up in Denver. He’s been nothing but great here….
by adamwanderer on Jan 18, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
And if a media source reports that he did...?
by adamwanderer on Jan 19, 2011 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
I'd be very, VERY surprised...
Deangelo is a class act and a pillar in the charlotte community….it would surprise me if he pulled a douchebag move like that. If he goes to Denver, wish him the best; but if it happens it’ll be because we didn’t offer him a new contract…
I guess I don't trust a lot of what is said
particularly out of context. I’ve never heard Peppers openly disparage the Panthers or the area. I’ve heard him make comments to the effect of not wanting to stay here. Wanting to move on, not liking that people knew where he lived, etc. I’ve never heard him say, the Panthers were cheap. But then again I don’t catch everything he said, only snippets pass around by “an unnamed source.”
by adamwanderer on Jan 19, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
I think the thing that makes most people upset re: Peppers...
Is that he came out when he signed with the Bears and said that the Panthers didn’t try to reach a deal with him, when it’s proven fact that the Panthers offered to make him the highest paid DE in the entire NFL on two separate occasions, one of which was after he put up his infamous 2.5 sack season in 2007.
Also, according to sources the Panthers were willing to do a tag-and-trade with him before the 2009 season, but he wouldn’t sign the franchise tender in time for a deal to be made.
He can bitch and moan about how he was treated or how we wasn’t treated by the fans all he wants. He can whine and complain about fans trying to watch him while he’s in his house, etc. but there’s a simple solution to that problem: it’s called a privacy fence.
At the end of the day, the main cause for all of Julius Peppers’ problems was Julius Peppers. Him, and his joke of an agent.
If D-Will goes to Denver or anywhere else, I wish him the best. It would take a hell of a lot for him to make me not root for him if he leaves, but as for Peppers, his leg can snap in half on Sunday for all I care. I hope the bastard never wins a damn thing.
Yes, I’m bitter, but I feel that as a fan, I have the right to be bitter about a guy who publicly bad-mouthed the franchise after they made every attempt to make him a very wealthy man to play a child’s game.
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
I'm sorry I just don't agree with you and here's why
There are two sides to every story and I like to listen to both sides to formulate an opinion. At this point (and unless we get wikileaks level documentation to prove otherwise) it will remain a classic case of “he said, she said.”
I’m also not saying you don’t have a right to be bitter. However, I think your feeling may be misplaced and there is a great deal of misinformation going on from a clever PR office. In the local media some key things he said in that conference were taken out of context.
He stands accused of bad-mouthing the organization and calling them cheap. Here is what he actually said unedited by the Charlotte Observer:
Peppers said he was under the impression the Panthers decided to “do away with anybody who is making a significant amount of money” as part of a roster overhaul, “That’s a business decision. I can understand and respect that,” the 30-year-old Peppers said. “The problem that I had was they tried to turn the tables and make it look like I wanted out no matter what. Really, I didn’t have the option to stay. It was never offered to stay. So when I say it ended a little sour, I felt like it could have been a little more respectful. At least a phone call to say, ’It’s been good. We’re going in a different direction. We’re going to let you go.’ They couldn’t even give me that.” Peppers also disputed Panthers general manager Marty Hurney’s earlier claims that they twice tried to make him the NFL’s highest-paid defensive player. Peppers said that happened only once, after the 2007 season, a deal he rejected. Hurney didn’t return a message seeking comment, releasing only a short statement that didn’t address Peppers’ criticism. “Julius gave us eight great years and we appreciate everything he did for us.”
1. He stated he understood that the Panthers decided to “do away with anybody who is making a significant amount of money.” – How is this inaccurate? It certainly seems to be the case as the team dumped vets left and right. Additionally he continued to say he understood the decision.
2. Peppers stated the Panthers tried to make it look like he wanted out of Carolina, and claims the team never called him directly with the news they were going to let him leave in free agency. He’s directly refuted that here. What was Hurney’s response to that claim? “No comment.”
What does either party gain by misinformation? Sway in the court of public opinion. I’ve never heard him once say the Panthers were cheap. Or directly speak ill of the Panthers. Trust me I’d be very interested in seeing a quote of that nature from a legitimate source (or video).
My point of view is that we don’t know exactly what happened. The “proven fact” that the Panther offered to make him the highest paid defender on two occasion, was three years ago. Not last season.
It’s all misinformation and I reserve my hatred for more certain things and things that aren’t associated with a child’s game.
by adamwanderer on Jan 19, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
P.S.
The Patriots are exempt. I think I actually do hate them. :-)
by adamwanderer on Jan 19, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
No need to apologize to me...
You have every right to disagree with me, and I appreciate that you do so in a respectable way. People like you are what make this site worth being a part of.
And, FWIW, I have a special hatred for the Patriots too. I don’t hate them as much as the CowTurds, but I do hate them, lol.
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
by BW Smith on Jan 19, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This world needs a lot more of this
or something like it.
“I don’t like/agree with your politics/policies/opinions but I can respect you.”
by adamwanderer on Jan 20, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
What really ticks me off...
Is how the ESPN guys constantly say, “Peppers’s sack total isn’t indicative of what he does. He’s worth what he’s being paid.”
Hell to the no. He’s not. They just want to applaud him for not being with Carolina anymore. Peppers has the freakish body and athletic ability (and the flexibility to be just as effective on either the left or right side) to have shredded Clausen in the game against Chicago. Especially having Urlacher and Briggs on the defense, and considering our O-line. Yeah, he disrupted Clausen and forced and recovered a fumble, but Peppers should have been able to knock Clausen out of the game. Johnson plays lights out on every play, has a higher sack total, has caused a ridiculous number of yards lost for opposing D’s, and has done that with almost no help from the DTs. And all at a tiny fraction of the salary Peppers demands.
Most of the ESPN guys are ignorant sycophants and hate on the entire Panthers team without even paying attention to a single game to see all of the positives that we’ll have in our favor going forward.
*Technically, I guess Peppers forced a fumble and made an INT on the same play. Same effect, though.
Pep always got his stats on weak teams when it matters he is nowhere to be found. Ill be keeping a eye on number 90 against the Packers. If he and the front four can’t get to Rodgers then GB is going to light there ass up.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
No doubt
Green Bay put on a clinic against Atlanta. Really should be good games all around this weekend.
by MindMachine on Jan 18, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
I'm counting on it!
I want the Bears to crash and burn! If only too see Pep get sooooo close to that SB and still not even win it.
when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?
by Panther4Life!!! on Jan 18, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Sucks for Chris though…i liked him much more and he loved us much more in return. Give a chance he would be back in Carolina in a heart beat. Especially now that we got his coach Rivera…He raved about him when he got to Carolina
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Yea
that’s the only thing that does suck. Harris did care about this team and it’s fans. I really hope he does get to come back and end his career in Carolina.
when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?
by Panther4Life!!! on Jan 18, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
+INFINITY
Preach it how it is sister!!!
when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?
by Panther4Life!!! on Jan 18, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Biggest problem I have with the "sack total isn’t indicative of what he does."
It assumes that Peppers is in a bubble that applies to no other DEs.
There are plenty of DEs in the NFL who are just as disruptive as Julius Peppers… but they get the sack totals too.
Peppers isn’t the only DE who is doubled, he’s not the only DE who gets chipped by the RB… they all do. In the end, there were sixteen 4-3 DE’s who got more sacks than Peppers. All those guys are getting chipped too, and sure while his 2 INT and 3 FF are impressive… but if you’re telling me that 8 sacks, 2 INT and 3 FF is worth being an $85 million player… then I just don’t get it.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Jan 18, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
+100
I agree with ya there… and as far as being disruptive I think sacking the QB is pretty damn disruptive.
by MindMachine on Jan 18, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe Chi can sign Haynseworth in the offseason so they can have to two most over payed overrated over hyped bums in the NFL
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Haha
That would be hilarious… except that the two would probably have success together.
by MindMachine on Jan 18, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
only half the time the other half they would complain and ask for a raise
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
succeeding at taking the most plays off?
Haynesworth makes Pep look like the hardest working man in the world lol
by Tomthehomer on Jan 18, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
You guys can bash Haynesworth all you want but we all know he is the most Disruptive DT in the NFL when he wants to play
He just doesn’t want to play in the 3-4 in Washington…. Yeah I know your getting paid a 100 million dollars to take up space but obviously the Guy wants to be put in position where he can make plays. Still doesn’t excuse the fact that he basically gives up on plays but we know he will perform if put in the right system
The thing I REALLY hate is that the Bengals will probably end up taking Cam Newton at #2. - SexBengals Fan
He's not the most disruptive DT anymore because he plays like a lardass...
Which is depressing, because you’re right he’s an absolute physical beast when he’s on, but after watching many a redskins game this year I wouldn’t start him over Derek Landri…I can count his good plays on one hand this year. Talent don’t mean shit if you don’t apply it…
Id give my left toe nail to get a player of Sapps’s caliber here in Carolina
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
thats a bold statement but there are similarities between the two.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
As long as Fairley doesn't talk as much as Sapp
I didn’t mind Sapp once he became a (short lived) analyst (at least I think he isn’t doing it anymore), but as a player he was fucking annoying sometimes….
by Tomthehomer on Jan 18, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
He is actually still gracing the NFL Network quite often.
He’s still annoying.
Let me hold about tree-fiddy?
I kinda liked him when he first started doing analysis...maybe it was just a novelty thing for me
but ever since the cable companies started charging for NFLN it’s been “thanks, but no thanks”
by Tomthehomer on Jan 18, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Dangit...
I just posted an actual picture of Haynesworth instead of Sapp (the Sapp one was accidental). Did it magically disappear? I wish I had the possibility to edit my posts.
PS – No problem with Sapp – good player. And surprisingly good dancer on Dancing With the Stars. =)
I frankly can't believe the hate and frankly the ignorance
Sack totals ARE NOT indicative of what he does. Statistics are pliable. Simple observation, or listening to opposing coaching staffs will tell you he is one of the most feared defensive ends in the league. Teams gameplan around him. He is a factor in whether or not plays can be run. He IS that good. He simply is. I’m kind of staggered that you guys can’t see that. Especially you James, you are better than this. Much better.
If you absolutely must rely on statistics, look at the unofficial stats. They are quite up to speed on week 14 yet, but per passing down Peppers leads the league in QB pressure. The next closest person is Chris Long and then Cameron Wake. But they are significantly behind him. Throw in deflected or altered passes, take into consideration passing windows or passes that simply weren’t thrown because he might be there….the information is there to view with your eyes.
For others hating on him, fine. Hate on him for leaving. I understand that. Get mad over the large market team drawing attention to him and seemingly forgetting about us when he was here. But don’t discount him simply because we are butthurt over him rejecting our team and choosing another path for himself.
And another issue. did anyone stop to think for a second that we offered him more money, more years, just about everything he wanted in his contract and he still left? Did anyone happen to think about how Fox admittedly knew TWO YEARS AGO he was on his way out and just maybe Pep knew this as well?
by adamwanderer on Jan 18, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
There are still many jilted lovers here, adam
Time will heal all wounds.
Let me hold about tree-fiddy?
by ERL on Jan 18, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And he's still blocking FGs/XPs at the line, saving points, which is just as valuable as scoring them.
And while he took a lot of plays off when he was a Panther, I watch him now, and he pursues run plays, which are away from his side, as well as any 4-3 DE around. There’s value being derived from him for more than just sacks.
In his mind, he’s not regretting the decision he made, going to the NFC Championship game, while the team he left behind goes 2-14.
Best we let him go, though, and concentrate on who we’ve got now.
I don't think many are arguing that he isn't a good DE...
but that he is overpaid for what he provides; for what he makes I’d be expecting 20 sacks, a bajillion TFL, and constant triple teams lol I miss having him on the line though, and can only imagine what he and Johnson could’ve done together as both FT starters….
Also, I’ve made it a point to always state that he turned down offers from us two years in a row to be made the highest paid defensive player in the NFL because he quote “Wanted to be the highest by a mile, not by a few inches”, but then turned around as soon as he got to chicago and flat out lied about us"not giving him any offers". He’s a douchebag, and made us out to be a bunch of scrooges to the media…
by Tomthehomer on Jan 18, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Some people do not know how to gracefully exit relationships.
It is what it is, day to day, and that’s what I’m trying to change so its not that.
Let me hold about tree-fiddy?
I think if we asked Bears fans, coaches and players if they think he is overpaid
(relative to NFL salaries) you’d get a resounding and door slamming NO.
by adamwanderer on Jan 18, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
And if he had signed with Carolina for a similar figure
And had a similar year ‘on the field’ once again in Carolina, there would be a near 180 degree difference in attitudes.
Let me hold about tree-fiddy?
And once we have a salary cap again...
I imagine Chicago is going to have some interesting decisions to make, much like we did when we decided to franchise him….
by Tomthehomer on Jan 18, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
12-4 and in the NFC championship nobody is going to complain about anything..Lets see what happens if Chicago has a bad season and Peppers Salary starts eating away at there roster to stay under the limit and your getting 8 sacks and losing key pieces. One year doesn’t mean JACK! He has more of a body of work here then in Chicago and no DE that talented gets 2 sacks in one SEASON after being called out to be the LEADER of the defense. Shows what kinda guy he is.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
11*5..added playoff win
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Winning cures all ills so that is a moot point.
Of course the common fan will turn on a player making that kind of money if he produces 2.5 sacks in one season.
He’s making a lot more money now than then in a larger market with more pressure. So I would imagine they will be hanging/burning him in effigy and practically cursing his very existence.
by adamwanderer on Jan 18, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
I posted about a salary cap solution yesterday.
It was my first effort ever on initiating a dialog so I think it was not great, but I did have an idea for a solution that would help the fans and teams adjust.
It was posted under “CBA is missing opportunity to improve league”.
saw that...
I wish they could just agree to 45% revenue goes to player salaries, 45% goes to the teams, and have the remaining 10% in place for increased benefits (expanding medical coverage for retired players and younger players who are out due to injury)….I know these are very rough percentages, but JR said it best: “I don’t know of any business that has ever survived with the model that is in place right now” (or something to that effect).
Where are you getting your QB pressure stats from, and by extension how many pressures came against sub .500 teams?
Julius has a curious ability to put up amazing numbers vs. bad opponents and then disappear against good ones… yes, I’ll refer to sacks because that’s the only measurable I have (used to look at PFF’s QB pressure stat).
I’ve always thought Peppers was tremendously overrated, so it has nothing to do with ‘Jilted lover syndrome’ I was saying this stuff two years ago.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Jan 18, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
As for me - Much of the data is pulled from PFF
The rest of the stats and information are gathered via a group of old friends of mine. We run pine on some nix’ boxes we threw together in the late 80s’/early 90’s. (They have more time on their hands than I do as most are retired) They watch games and methodically track data. QB pressures was something PFF has been looking at the last couple of years and it is something we’ve taken and run with as we determine it to be a much more important indicator of pass rush effect. As the year progresses we try and tabulate the data but it depends on input from people watching games and doing their homework. At last count (with some hook-ups with friends on the inside if you will) and comparing notes with PFF up to week 14 should be done this week some time.
These guys and myself are football fanatics. Some have legit coaching experience, some played the game (though not at the professional level) some just love the game and study it because that’s the mindset of most of us in the group.
by adamwanderer on Jan 18, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
I was just thinking
I don’t have the best football mind and some would say I have one of the worst, BUT
I think Brad Hoover would make a great RBs coach for three reasons
1) He can relate to the players. He is fresh out the league and still young enough to be really hands on when showing what he wants and expects from them.
2) He has played FB and RB. He was not only a star FB in Carolina but he was a star RB in college. He has great knowledge of both positions and will be able to set up all our guys to work together and accent each other.
3) He is well respected in Carolina. He is not only a fan favorite, which doesn’t really matter but even so, but all the RBs and FBs currently on the staff raive about the kind of mentor he was to them. They respect and care for him and I think they would play really hard for him.
You guys can crucify me for this post if you want and I know there’s about a snowballs chance in hell of this actually happening. But I believe it would be a smart move and while the players want Skip and that won’t happen, I think Hoov would be the next best thing.
IT AIN'T SIZE OF THE DOG IN THE FIGHT BUT THE SIZE OF THE FIGHT IN THE DOG
I don't think anyone will crucify ya for suggesting a fan favorite become a RB coach...
I’d be interested to see it myself; the only issue will be his lack of being an actual RB once we discovered that he’s a BAMF. I’m sure he’d be a good coach though
by Tomthehomer on Jan 18, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Fox already stirring it up in Denver saying he wont commit to a QB or Champ Bailey….dun dun dun
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
"We will start whoever gives us the best chance to win"
by MindMachine on Jan 18, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
It'll be
“day to day with assessing the talent we have on the roster”
when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?
by Panther4Life!!! on Jan 18, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Bailey still playing solid? dont follow Denver..Bailey a short term fix at CB?
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Jan 18, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
not really
there has been talk of wanting to move him to Safety since he is losing a step to play CB
Oh, if Fox gives that crap about "playing who gives us the best chance to win..."
And then sits Tebow after specifically being asked if he would play Tebow, I hope Elway lights a fire under Fox.
Consistency
If there is one thing I hope the new coaching staff brings to Carolina it’s consistency.
For as long as I have been watching the Panthers it seems that we have been one of the most inconsistent teams in the league.
We have games where we look unstoppable and then the next week we look like the Detroit Lions.
2010 was a total loss of course and doesn’t really apply because we consistent… consistently terrible, but most other years we have been up and down constantly.
Hey James,
I’m firing up the plane to go down to Haitesburg…might need you on this one. Make damn sure you’re wearing your Wranglers.
Let me hold about tree-fiddy?
Childress? Is that you?
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
by James Dator on Jan 18, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
I've commented on different factors, in separate places...but more of an overall opinion here.
McDermott with the help of Mills, Meeks, and Rivera – I think we will have one of the toughest D’s in the league. That’s a lot of experience – Mills and Meeks with our particular players, and McDermott and Rivera studying under Jim Johnson. I expect to see both a return to solid fundamentals (tackling!!!) and some aggressive and exotic packages. I think our D could wreak havoc on opposing offenses after gaining some experience with the fire zone defense (if we do in fact employ it).
I do wish that Chudz had more higher-level NFL experience, but knowing how to develop and employ TEs should be immensely helpful in opening up a lot more options for the offense. Having promising WRs who are good blockers, having RBs with good hands who are also good blockers (well, at least Stewart; Goodson hasn’t figured out how to overcome his smaller size in pass protection), and developing all around TEs should dramatically open up offensive possibilities. Throwing in some interesting formations with a surrounding cast of players who are all capable of receiving, running, blocking, and pass protection will make the life of whoever our QB is much easier.
Of the lot of McDermott, Chudz, and Murphy, I think Murphy may have one of the more important jobs. I feel like ST is not necessarily an afterthought, but doesn’t always get the attention that it deserves. ST can make or break you. See DeSean Jackson in the Eagles/Giants game. See Hester with his NFL record-setting career returns for TDs. Rodgers dramatically improved our ST last season, but it’s obviously still not ideal. One of the biggest things – ball security. It was an issue all last season (and actually, not just on ST). Another big issue – penalties! A would-be kick return for a TD by Goodson was negated by penalties. That’s a TD lost for the lowest-scoring team in the league. Penalties call returns waaay back or completely negate the yards the carrier gained. With a struggling offense, the better field position you get, the better. Even if it doesn’t ultimately lead to a TD, it can get us in FG position. ST can get you in position for the offense to make easy points, or for ST get points themselves.
ST can also help out the defense by pinning the opposing team deep on their side of the field. Makes it easier for scoring defense if they can recover a fumble or make an INT and return those for TDs. A hard-hitting ST with solid tackling can also force fumbles (and possibly recover/score) in and of themselves.
by jamiedk on Jan 18, 2011 12:47 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
I'm having the same problem bigd -- rec after rec after rec...
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
Lots of changes to ST
Rhys will hopefully still be around. I was happy with the addition of Hudson but we didn’t get to see much of Wallace Wright. That will be a nice body on ST. Also players like Charly Martin and Hilee Taylor will be able to get to play again. I am excited like the next person with the AE experiment I hope to see, but I am not holding my breath on Armanti finding his role on this team.
New QB coach
I hope he works with the QB’s And gets them to NFL strength? Maybe get their passing to the wide receivers better.
Jeremey Bates out as Seattle OC
He’d fit what we’re doing as far as young talented coaches. He’s very well regarded in football circles and led Jay Cutler to a Pro Bowl with the Broncos. He’s also got experience as a playcaller with Denver and USC. Let’s bring him in as QB coach.
Follow me on Twitter at @jakehbravesfan
he sounds like a good fit.
spent time working with Gruden and helped get Cutler to the probowl.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Jan 18, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
sounds like Carroll might be trying to make room
for a shot at McDaniels.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Jan 18, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yup
Now talks between St. Louis and McDaniels are mysteriously breaking down?!
Hmmmmm…. I wonder why?
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
Ding, ding, ding
Adam Schefter
Seahawks have been talking with former Broncos HC Josh McDaniels since Monday. Interesting.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
Sure is...
Heck, so long as the Panthers wind up with the best players I love it!
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
I love the moves made thus far.
We just need to get that QB coach hammered out and we’ll be in business.
Follow me on Twitter! @James_Dator
I'm all for getting Bates
Having Chud and Bates working on the offensive game plan as a pair of former OCs/playcallers would be a good thing for the offense. And I think it’s safe to say both of them are the “teachers” that Rivera wants.
Follow me on Twitter at @jakehbravesfan
by Jake Humphrey on Jan 18, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
Their loss may end up being our gain.
Everything I’ve read about Bates has been positive and we’ve been aggressive hiring young coaches and those with coordinator experience.
Follow me on Twitter at @jakehbravesfan
by Jake Humphrey on Jan 18, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if the Rams will look to bring in Bates as their OC now
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Jan 18, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
The plot thickens...
Adam Schefter
Seahawks have been talking with former Broncos HC Josh McDaniels since Monday. Interesting.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Jan 18, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Leave it McDaniels to make a team he is teasing fire someone
Now watch him go back to the Rams (where the OC opening was the result of a promotion).
Let me hold about tree-fiddy?
you called it....
Chris Mortensen
Re-filed to ESPN as we live with the coaching carousel: Rams & McDaniels talks have re-heated again. More optimism now.
Looks like he may have gotten Bates fired trying bilk more money out of St. Louis. I heard it was a financial difference that stalled the initial talks with the Rams.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Jan 18, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
done deal...
Chris Mortensen
Filed by myself and @AdamSchefter to ESPN: McDaniels to Rams as offensive coordinator is now a done deal.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Jan 18, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Is it me...
or are coaches becoming more and more douchebaggish? Harbaugh leveraging SF for a higher offer by teasing Stanford was bad enough (and interestingly enough, stanford called his bluff and forced him to show his true colors), but now McD (who is hardly in a position to be demanding anything right now) is playing the role of Homewrecker in order to get a better deal…
Was just checking out Matt Moore's seldom updated blog...
and am starting to think: If we get an actual QB coach in here, is it possible we retain him at a high incentive, low risk contract? I like the kid a lot, but am concerned about his injury. However, it sounds like he’s progressing back pretty well, and I’m still convinced that Scherer fucked with his mechanics (or something) over the offseason…everything he did well at the end of 2009 just went down the drain in the preseason and regular season, but I’m having a hard time believing it’s simply because he was “the guy”. Sure, it had to fuck with him a little bit, but that doesn’t account for the sudden regression in almost every aspect of his game…..
I think it was more than "being the guy" as well
I mean, is there really pressure to be “the guy” in preseason games? I’d think not, so one could ascertain from this that Moore would not have played shitty in the preseason, too, if it was all about crumbling under pressure.
If he couldn’t stand the heat of being the starter, would that really affect him in all of the preseason games, too. In fact, he was worse in those than he was his regular season appearances.
I call Sher-nanigans.
Let me hold about tree-fiddy?
that's what I'm thinking...
and hell…maybe the new staff could really make him believe that he can be the “Vet guy” to the QB’s. It seems like he would like to stay here though, and Moore doesn’t seem to have any delusions about his value right now….
He seems like a good dude
So I’d love to see him stick around. And I recall him saying something like “this is home for me and my wife.” I Think it would be dirtbag if they don’t at least give him a tryout to see if the shoulder has healed.
But yeah, everyone was going through all the names at QB…guys we could trade for or sign as free agents, and I’m thinking, ’there’s a guy in the backyard’ who would be great for the younger guys. He’s seen a lot of football. Don’t need to be a physically incapable geez to mentor.
Let me hold about tree-fiddy?
Feel good story of the year, if he were to come back, and be the starter.
He’s shown he can do it, in ’09. He could use some better play-calling, though, and a little support, from blockers and coaches.
It certainly would be
He would be the front-runner for “Comeback of the Year.”
What I really like(d) about Moore, even in 2010, was he knew it was absolutely in his best interest to get Steve Smith the ball.
Let me hold about tree-fiddy?
Class act.
He’s the kind of player you want on your team…whether he’s on the field or not.
Let me hold about tree-fiddy?
I wish he would update it more though...
would be interesting to get his observations on everything QB wise
I thought the blog was defunct, actually.
This was his first post on it in a long time.
Good to see he’s progressing in his recovery, and that the Panthers’ training staff are still working with him. I’d kinda had the impression that, now that he’s no longer under contract, he’d have to rehab on his own.
he's still "technically" under contract for right now...
but I’d hope that our staff would be helping him…last thing we need to be like is Spags out there in STL telling lifetime employees to get lost lol
cool
i went on there and started clicking all his google ads…lol…anything to help him out :)
by Totalscholar on Jan 18, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
BigD
The thing about the blog is so weird – I was literally thinking earlier today about how I wished he would update it. I started to click on the link, and then I was like, “I’m sure the guy hasn’t updated it since summer…”
Thanks for sharing!
I just posted this message, to him, on his blog.
Matt, 1 year ago today, I posted this on Cat Scratch Reader (CSR) – I still believe it today, and hope you are re-signed by the Panthers, and can play in 2011, under a coaching staff that can utilize your talents.
http://www.catscratchreader.com/2010/1/18/1257164/matt-moore-comparisons
Best of luck in your recovery. Everything happens for a reason.
He's admitted he can't really mentor that much.
Clausen came to him to ask a few questions, all he could do was say “I don’t know man.”
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Jan 18, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
Where'd you hear that?
And so what? He wasn’t paid to help the competition. I don’t want him back to mentor, but to throw the ball.
Obviously, Clausen couldn’t find anybody to answer it for him – if it pertained to QBing.
Interview at the beginning of the year.
Moore was talking about how weird it was to finally be “the guy”. Sort of a grizzled vet in the locker room and how some of the other younger guys were coming to him with questions.
You’re right, he wasn’t paid to help the competition. But Clausen was by no means a competitor, the job was Moore’s since the beginning of spring. We need a guy who can help our entire team, Moore can’t do that yet. Heck we don’t even know if he can throw the ball yet.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Jan 19, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
To me he was being modest.
He’s not going to say “Yeah, I told that prick how to do it because I’m super awesome.”
Let me hold about tree-fiddy?
He said he couldn't help them.
He could have left it at “it’s weird being one of the oldest guys in the locker room.” I saw the interview as well, I’m just not seeing the same thing you are.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Jan 20, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Okay
But if you look at all the names floating around (of veteran QBs), if he is healthy, I think he is ultimately one of the few who will actually get a look. I think he is veteran enough to be another set of eyes for whoever is playing QB (assuming he is not). Plus, you don’t want some guy who is creating drama because he thinks he should be the one playing. I know Moore is a team guy. There are probably a bunch of guys who would come here expecting to be the starter or at least compete for the starting job. Moore would sign without any expectations, IMO.
Let me hold about tree-fiddy?
You know I'm all for it.
He started off shaky (first half of the 1st game against the Giants, he looked GREAT, getting the lead at the half – then in the second, INTs piled up. Then it was a concussion, thrown in again too early, had a good game, then faltered — never got in a good rhythm.) I’d like to see him get another chance at it, as he was way better able to handle a 3-4 WR set, or an empty backfield, than Clausen ever been able to.
It was said the other day that even Aaron Rodgers started off the year shaky, with a couple off games – then found his confidence, and off he went.
If he recovers from the injury, he’d be a cheap alternative to start camp with.
While I'm inclined to disagree about the Giants game (that Barnidge pick was atrocious...whole reason we kept him was he avoided those in 09)
After perusing the likely FA QB’s that will be available, keeping Moore around (and probably signing someone else as well) could be quite beneficial. Just can’t rush him on the labrum stuff, although he seems fairly confident in the recovery….
Plus, Rivera highly values chemistry…JC and MM seem to get along very well and I think both have learned valuable lessons from watching each other.
They have indeed learned valuable lessons from each other
such as…
“Never play well enough in a season to be anointed the starter for the Carolina Panthers the next season.”
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
or...
Don’t trust a QB coach named “Rip” and an OC nicknamed “Forrest Gump”…you weren’t fooling anybody with those diet pepsi’s davidson!!!!!
I don't think I would trust anyone named "Rip"...
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
And maybe no one named Scherer.
Useless factoid – the principle at the private school I attended as a kid was part of an embezzling scandal involving tuition.
I doubt the two Scherers are related…just saying…I have a distrust of the name now.
Realized
I didn’t clarify…the word is “principal.” Before the grammar/spelling police come after me.
And his name was Scherer. =)
You narrowly escaped the grammar police this time young missy, but I’m watching you. You best keep your homophones in order. :-)
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
hahahaha
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
Oh my goodness BigD!
We’re not alone as to Moore and another shot! Sorry if the others (ERL and Tomthehomer) have been in the camp and I’ve just missed it.
And I will get into/comment no further. Just excited to see company. =)
well...to be fair I'm not completely sold on him quite yet
Mainly because of the injury; However, I’ve always liked Moore a lot and was very upset that his season went the way it did…it was like watching bizarro Moore this year lol. I was really confident that he would be able to stay healthy and play well enough to keep Clausen from being thrown to the lions, but don’t need to reopen our offensive wounds (Clean slate…I’m not passing too much judgement until I see how both of them look next preseason). I do strongly believe that IF he can recover his arm strength (and remember that when you throw thirty yards downfield, it’s OKAY to rifle it in ala 2009) he would be a good option to consider for next season….Although we should still bring in a third body for numerous reasons (injuries, depth, competition…etc)
Remember, he's the only guy who ever found Hoover AND Jarrett in the EZ for TDs.
Gotta count for something.
I'm still on the Moore train
He had a couple bad games but in th SF game he looked like a seasoned vet out there. Peyton Manning had a couple bad games this year and he’s still the greatest so why is it the Moore should be castrated especially when I believe most of his problems were play calling and seeing double after the concussion.
IT AIN'T SIZE OF THE DOG IN THE FIGHT BUT THE SIZE OF THE FIGHT IN THE DOG
It's not really fair to compare Moore to Peyton Manning.
Because one of them is a future HOF’er that will be in the discussion for greatest of all time when he retires, and the other is Matt Moore.
Follow me on Twitter at @jakehbravesfan
by Jake Humphrey on Jan 18, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
yeaaa that's a bit of a weird comparison...
Considering Moore has never put in a consistent season so far; He shows enough flash to get everyone excited, but then he has a start like this year and its like “Fucccck, which one is the real matt moore?!”
I'm jus sayin'
I think it’s a little early to condemn the man, He’s had more good games than bad. And I don’t think anybody could have succeeded with the coaching we had last year. I think he deserves another shot
IT AIN'T SIZE OF THE DOG IN THE FIGHT BUT THE SIZE OF THE FIGHT IN THE DOG
There's no pressure in preseason.
So i’m not so sure of that.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Jan 18, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
I'll admit that.
Although considering what he’d done the previous season and the faith the organization showed in him, I’d think all he had to do was come in, relax, and play.
"Sometimes the journey is better than the destiny."-John Fox
"Ever noticed that you can say "it is what it is" after anything? It’s the perfect cop-out. Sorry man, I didn’t mean to hit on your girl… But it is what it is!"-Southtunnel (previously El Bacon)
by Flowing Willow on Jan 19, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
I'd love to see Moore get another shot here under the new regime.
That run he had at the end of the 2009 season was no mirage. He beat some quality teams that still had something to play for.
After watching the latter part of this season, I’m left yearning for a QB thats willing to put himself on the line and has the guts and will to suppress his instinct for self preservation for the greater good of team.
Its great to see he’s not only progressing with his re-hab, but also seemingly sending a message that he’s available at an attractive hometown discount price.
Cool thing random personal note in reference to Moore
Highlight of my son’s season…….. He was lucky enough buy a pack of football cards with a special insert card autographed by Moore & Rosario.
That's cool.
"I think that fits right along with what my vision is, and that is to help build this team into a Super Bowl caliber team, win, and sustain that for a period of time." ~Ron Rivera
Al Davis's press conference is ridiculous
I don’t know if anybody else caught Davis’s press conference today because it was absolutely hilarious. All he did was trash a bunch of great QBs and infer that Jason Campbell is a great QB. The man is clearly senile and has lost his mind. He also looked horrible health-wise. It was almost kind of sad. It sure was entertaining though. I’m sure ESPN will show it on Sportscenter throughout the week.
I like Campbell, but damn lol
I’m pretty sure all of Oakland is getting ready to dump arsenic in his food tonight
Count me as a Moore Supporter!
I thought Fox’s decision to bench Moore after 2 games was one of the worst personnel decisions of his tenure. Now that doesn’t mean Moore played well but he deserved more than 2 games to show what he could do. If Moore is fully recovered from the labrum surgery, I would put him in the mix for the QB position.
The issue though was the concussion...
He probably came back too early from it, and took a bit of a pounding at TB to boot…and things just kinda went from there lol
wrong...the issue was a torn labrum...per matt moore's blog...
My injury was a torn labrum in my right shoulder. I’m actually doing really well. I’m nine weeks out of surgery, my mobility is good and I’m getting my strength back. The Panthers trainers are doing a great job of getting me back to where I need to be. When I initially suffered the injury, I knew something was wrong. The most pain came in the first four days after the surgery. That was tough, I had never had surgery before. After that it was just a lot of ice and I started to feel better. The past 5-6 weeks I’ve felt great.
by Totalscholar on Jan 18, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Week 1 Giants game.
Got sacked at our own 1 yard line or something.
Clausen came and attempted 2 passes that both were incomplete.
He had a concussion. Did not take any time off.
East Carolina Pirates - No Quarter
by RjTheMetalhead on Jan 18, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
phiz50 above...
..was talking about the labrum surgery…tomthehomer said the issue was concussion…im not a dumbass i know he had a concussion early in the season…i just thought tom was countering the labrum surgery, (just saw injury for injury) but now i think he was referring to his play time issue being that he came back from the concussion too soon and wasnt fully recovered…
by Totalscholar on Jan 18, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
Ok then.
I thought you were forgetting he had a concussion.
East Carolina Pirates - No Quarter
by RjTheMetalhead on Jan 18, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't mean to imply the concussion was THE issue...
just that it was where the troubles started; obviously the torn labrum is the concern now….
I also understood your point and agree 100%
In retrospect, bringing Moore back too quick from the concussion was the begining of the end.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Cat Scratch Reader
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Donald Driver compared winning ‘Dancing With The Stars’ to winning Super Bowl
- Report: Most NFL players would have no problem with an openly gay teammate
- Donald Driver wins ‘Dancing With the Stars’
- Student has diploma withheld after Tebowing at graduation
- NFL to mandate knee and thigh pads for players
