Panthers turn down trade offer for RB Tyrell Sutton
Per Darin Gantt at least one NFC team contacted the Panthers to inquire about the availability of RB Tyrell Sutton, only to be shot down by the organization. From connecting dots surrounding some other stories around the NFL I believe that team was the Seattle Seahawks.
What does everyone think of this steadfast desire to keep Sutton? I love Tyrell's 'do everything' approach, but should it be considered that perhaps this indicates the Panthers' future plans at the position?
Thanks to Sniff for originally posting this in a comment section.
over 1 year ago
James Dator
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I think they are preparing for the possibility of D-Will not re-signing
They’re prepared to go with Stewie, Goodson, and Sutton at RB if they can’t sign D-Will long term.
Plus, we don’t know exactly what was offered for Sutton, so it could just be that they didn’t want to give him up for a 6th-7th round pick.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
by BW Smith on Sep 7, 2010 11:34 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Excellent point about the compensation, I thought of that… but it still makes me wonder.
I think, like you, they could be preparing for the possibility of losing DeAngelo
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
You are both wrong
Why the fascination with not resigning DeAngelo?
It’s like if they let you play GM you would let D’Lo and Moore walk despite the fact that we will be 70 million under the cap next offseason.
Do you really think that Stewart, a guy who has not fully participated in ONE NFL practice, is going to hold up if he’s getting 375 carries a year?
It sounds to me like you don’t want resign D’Lo…not just from this comment, but its a cumulative observation. So then it’s all JStew for two seasons, he shoots his NFL wad carrying the load by himself, and then we have neither.
Sorry, but this topic gets my panties in a bunch.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
OK, so more aptly...
If Jurney (you love it) let two top 50 NFL players walk out the door with zero compensation in back to back years, he should be replaced with a hamster.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
This has nothing to do with some ‘DeAngelo Williams witch hunt’ as you intuit, but everything to do with hoping for the best and preparing for the worst.
Honestly, I’m getting sick and tired of people saying “You just don’t want him here” every time someone mentions the possibility that a player wont be resigned, or lost via free agency…. sorry, panties in a bunch or not, it’s getting old.
There is a possibility we could lose all of our free agents. I see keeping Sutton as yet another backup plan in case the worst does occur.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
You rarely (if ever) mention him resigning. That's getting old.
If you don’t want people to jump to these conclusions, then you should level your analysis of the situation. All I can remember reading about this situation is that you doubt we will be able to resign him. Even when I present information to the contrary (Pat’s blog article about all our cap room), your opinion is unaffected.
I recall reading through 800 comments of people trying to trade him for Vincent Jackson this past offseason. So many of the readers here were already jettisoning him off for a receiver who was in handcuffs three hours before the Chargers Divisional Playoff game in January.
Others had all but drawn up the paperwork to trade him to Detroit for a second round pick. I’m afraid his value to this team, and his value in the league is being grossly undervalued by many of his own home-team fans.
On a side note:
It’s irritating that we have two great backs who work very well together, yet most fans understand so little about this team that they would trade one of them right now for T.O. because of their premature panic about our WR situation.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
Maybe in a way we don't want him here
The guys one of my favorite players on the team. But what’s the consequence of keeping him? Well for one, Stewart (who holds the record for most yards in a single game, not DWill) remains a backup. Sutton and Goodson (who clearly looks like a guy who needs minutes) barely see the field.
What’s the consequence of losing DWill? Well an arguably better, more rounded RB gets more carries and Goodson and Sutton get more minutes.
I’m not advocating getting rid of DWill… Just pointing out that the latter scenario has some appeal.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I'm also not saying Goodson would be as good as DWill
But having him as a change-of-pace to Stewart could be a better strategy, than having your shifty guy lead.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Easy, Tiger...
There are two key words in my statement…
possibility, and if
I’ve not said in that statement that I want them to let D-Will walk. But, they should be prepared just in case he decides he wants to test the market and demands a high price that they can’t or won’t pay.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
I've been getting RIPPED, for saying this for awhile now
NOBODY wants to hear anything about breaking up Double Trouble. But I think it could be inevitable. I can totally vision Stewart with the majority carries, Sutton relieving him, and a non-fumbling Goodson as a change-of-pace threat. That could be a VERY nice setup. But with so much depth now, Goodson or Sutton will hardly see the field.
I just wish they would have made a trade and got some serious value for DWill. Another Pro-Bowler walking for nothing… Sucks.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I wouldnt have traded him for a 6th or 7th
Who knows how bad the draft is going to be this year in the latter rounds. no way someone would be giving a 5th or better. He hasn’t done anything. But he is a solid player.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
OH!
Sutton's versatility
Sutton is too valuable to give up right now due to his ability to fill in at the fullback position.
We added Rashawn Jackson to the PS
He’s the backup plan so we don’t need to use Sutton at FB if something happens to Fiametta.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I hear you James ....Jackson would be the backup plan......
but Sutton gives you the luxury of having someone on the active roster, with some previous NFL experience at the position, that can fill in as a stop-gap to get you through a game if (God forbid) Fiametta goes down.
Rosario could do it.
At this point, I don’t think Sutton is any more valuable than Nick Goings was back in the day. He’s mildly important to have around if something happens to one back. If something happens to both backs, he’s very important to have around. The chances of that happening aren’t great though.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Sep 7, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Rosario could probably do it in a pinch......
but he figures to be somewhere in the game plan in the TE rotation. Thats why a versatile back up like Sutton is so valuable. He gives you gameday depth at Running Back, Fullback and Special Teams without having to move personel out of position in order to get thru a game. My main point here is that IMO the Panthers reluctance to deal Sutton has more to do with his role this season than anything do do with the future.
after that forced fumble last game
I’m excited to see how he continues to perform on special teams. He put a good hit on that ball carrier. Fox and co. love some versatile players. If a guy can fill multiple roles, it provides positional depth which gives them more options on who to have active on game day.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
I like Jackson as well
I think he has potential and we know the Panthers are not opposed to carrying 2 FBs
That was my thought
I think the trade talk was to get something for Housh instead of just releasing him. After the pre-season it was apparent we may still have a need for a #2 WR and Seattle could definitely take a chance on a versatile RB with a little NFL experience and a low price tag. I like Sutton (and think he should be active on most weekends), but I dont think he is worth holding onto just in case something happens to one of our premier backs. You can only hedge your bets so much until you havent really anted anything. I am glad we cut Cantwell and could argue the same decision could have been made on Pike.
by parkershawn2001 on Sep 7, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Now that would have been interesting
I always liked Housh. I think he benefited from having Ochocinco to open up the field for him. But he would’ve made a great #2 for the panthers.
by The Duke Dude on Sep 8, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
OK, James
What got me here is that we arrived at the conclusion that DeAngelo is a goner because Hurney declined to trade a quality backup for a 7th round pick.
Why can’t we speculate that JStew is not completely healthy? Why do we have to jump right to something that is happening next March?
Make of it what you will. I tend to think that the trade they offered blows.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
One player is under contract, one isn’t. People tout the $70 million in cap space without ever thinking that free agency is a two way street.
Do I think the Panthers will do everything in their power to retain Williams? Absolutely
Do I think the Panthers have a ceiling they wont go above? Absolutely
DeAngelo Williams will be beyond a shadow of a doubt the most desirable free agent in the NFL. Only way he wont be is if Peyton Manning and/or Tom Brady choose to test the waters… which isn’t going to happen.
The Panthers aren’t going to offer any contract they perceive as overpaying, that’s me understanding the organization. Julius Peppers taught us the Panthers do have a limit.
Nobody said he was a ‘goner’ but again, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I believe the desire to keep Sutton is at least in part a safety net in case Williams chooses to leave the Panthers for more money.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
So you're saying we should have picked up TJ
So we could win while we still have our core players?
If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
I wouldn't say that, but...
…I will point out that our core players (the nucleus Fox and Hurney try to maintain from year to year) only has a limited window (both in playing years and contracted cap space) to achieve the ultimate goal of winning a Superbowl. The Panthers are doing a great job of restocking the roster through the draft. I would venture to say that Hurney, especially, has done an exceptional job of that during his tenure.
However, aside from the great drafting, the Panthers front office should also take an occasional look at free agency. I haven’t seen them do as great a job with that. For every Chris Harris we’ve found, we’ve also had busts like DJ Hackett while chasing the free agents. They just don’t seem as good (or interested) at finding the right mix of veteran free agents to add to their crop of young talent out of the draft. The WR position has been a glaring need for the past several years. And if we could have had Patrick Crayton for a 7th round draft pick…or T.J. Houshmanzadeh for the veteran minimum…even for a single year, we all know those guys would have been better immediate impact players for our offense than the numerous WR prospects they’re keeping around to develop.
Now, should we trade Deangelo Williams for that kind of upgrade to our offense? I’d say no. But it’s not crazy talk, either. The Panthers have plenty of RBs in the stable they could dangle as trade bait or rely on in the event DLo leaves us. Tyrell Sutton fits that scenario more easily in my mind. But there’s nothing that says Stewart couldn’t continue to split time with any of the other RBs we’d have left. Do I want that scenario to happen? No way. My preference would be to spend the money or the 7th round draft pick and get a WR like Anquan Boldin, T.J. Houshmanzadeh, or even Patrick Crayton. That’s a far more worthy investment. And, even if the Panthers got outbid for one of those guys, that’s fine. I’d prefer to see the front office at least injecting themselves into the conversation than see them sit back and do nothing when those opportunities arise.
But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil
I don't think that's wrong, any of it.
But I do get the sense that your druthers would be to put money elsewhere first.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
My recommendation...
…would be to ease upon the “sensing” of other people’s druthers, ERL. And I mean that in a kindly way, not to quibble with you or anything. This is an internet messageboard. It’s very easy to read into someone’s written stream-of-consciousness text something they don’t actually feel. Whereas, if you were talking face-to-face with James about this topic, you’d probably come away with a very different impression altogether. We just can’t pick up on tone of voice and body language with what we read here. I don’t think he’s anti-DLo by any stretch. And, by at least acknowledging the possibility exists that we may not be able to keep both him and Jonathan Stewart together forever, is actually playing it more down the middle than not.
But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil
When I need a recommendation you'll be the first to know
Let James respond if he wants. He doesn’t need anyone to defend him. If you choose to reprimand me again, perhaps do it without contradicting yourself.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Sep 7, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
No, feel free to Neil
But I don’t need to be told how and what to post.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Sep 7, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
...
I just don’t need to be told how to post on “an internet message board.”
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Sep 7, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry double post
But come on, man. Is “sensing someone’s druthers” really that bad that you need to jump in and voice your disapproval in a somewhat contradictory way?
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Sep 7, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
the FO in sports has to have insight into the future..
Deangelo is older than JStew and will possibly go elsewhere for more money as soon as his contract is up. Why sit here like Cavs fans and think he will definitely be here for the rest of his days and then get nothing from it when he does? Obviously we want to do whatever we can to keep him, but you have to remember we have another top back sitting right behind him.. If it costs too much, we will let him go
GSO
With that train of thought
If the Panthers want to win a Super Bowl they should bring in talented FA’s to shore up any holes we have. Otherwise they are just a training team to create stars that go to contenders.
The Panthers need to develop a sense of urgency that draws players interest. As of now they seem to just be a place that win or lose, “It is what it is.” This franchise openly defied the pleadings of their best player when he asked for support. Honestly, the nicest thing they could do is to trade him to NE, Indy, Green Bay, San Diego or god help me Minnesota so that he can try to finish out his career on a contender.
The Jet’s have a QB that isn’t close to the quality of our back up (opinion), but players want to play their because they have seen Rex Ryan wants to win. After seeing John Fox punt on every 4th and short in the history of his tenure (this is hyperbole, but the times he goes for it are statistically insignificant), who do you think players are going to want to play for.
I love what Fox did for the team, but it is what it is, and it is time to go.
If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
This franchise openly defied the pleadings of their best player when he asked for support.
Is that why they spent so many draft picks on wide receivers?
by SlayerGhaleon on Sep 7, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, and Smitty seems very impressed with them.
If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
They still invested heavily in the WR position. Openly defying his pleadings would involve not addressing it at all.
by SlayerGhaleon on Sep 7, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
In all fairness, though...
I think Oi2dwrld’s point is valid. If the front office wanted to boldly address the WR2 position in time to take advantage of Steve Smith’s window of opportunity (from an age perspective), they wouldn’t just be looking to develop rookie prospects or hanger-on’s like Dwayne Jarrett. That’s not a path that’s going to pay dividends in anything but the long-term. Whereas Smith would probably benefit more from a salty veteran who’s ready to go.
I suppose we technically tried to do that by bringing in D.J. Hackett awhile back from the Seattle Seahawks. But he just never seemed to get it together or avoid the injury bug enough to stay on the field and contribute meaningfully. Those circumstances, however, shouldn’t dissuade the front office from still pursuing good free agents when they become available. And yet, they’ve completely shunned the open market that could have landed Anquan Boldin, T.J. Houshmanzadeh, and Patrick Crayton…all of which could have immediately locked down the WR2 spot and given some relief to Steve. The fact that the Panthers didn’t pursue those opportunities makes it look more like they’re planning for the long haul by spending a lot of resources developing rookie WRs or inexperienced 2nd and 3rd year guys while Steve continues to age (and potentially start losing a step).
It’s a conscious strategy they’re pursuing. Or, if you prefer, it’s a gamble or a risk that they’re taking…hoping that Steve continues to perform at a high level for a long time and that somebody finally steps up to claim the WR2 spot and own it. I’m not sure the current crop of guys will be ready to do that anytime soon. But I’d absolutely love it if they did.
My two-cents,
—Neil
The long term option is best right now. Putting aside the CBA troubles, we have a whole bunch of guys that need re-signed.
Besides, even with a number 2 WR, we’re not SB contenders this year anyway.
by SlayerGhaleon on Sep 7, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not so sure...
…after all, we all know “defense wins championships.” And, if the Panthers can hold up as well as they showed in the preseason, that could pay off. Meanwhile, the offense could approach a similar plateau of competence assuming the following holds true:
1) The O-line stays as solid as last year and don’t get hit by mounting injuries. Otah’s return and sustainability would be key here.
2) The running game stays in synch. That’ll start up front with the O-line, obviously. But, it would also assume that Fiammetta fills in as capably as Hoover used to do. And, we’ll need good downfield blocking by Jarrett/LaFell to replace what Muhsin used to bring to the table.
3) The signing of a legitimate WR2 threat to pair with Steve Smith takes the pressure off both our #1 receiver as well as Matt Moore. The more guys we can give him who can get open and move the chains would enhance the overall offense so it isn’t one-dimensional.
Now, if you put those three things together, I think it offsets the mediocre to sub-par performance our special teams routinely turn in game after game. And it might be enough to make them a legitimate threat to contend for the Superbowl. Admittedly, however, that’s still an optimistic view of things. All in all, though, if I had to point to one specific thing holding the Panthers back this year, it’d be no legitimate WR2 to push the passing game to a higher level.
But, as always, that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil
I absolutely agree
I do think all that this team is missing to be a contender this year is a 2nd wide receiver that will be ready out of the gate. I think that at least one of our receivers will develop as the season continues, but that we may lose too many games at at the start of the season for it to mater.
Steve Smith effectively begged for someone to be brought in to take some of the pressure off. He said he did not want to be the primary receiver any more. Rookies and Jarrett are not going to help him not have to run a 40 yard rout every play.
Smith realizes he only has a few more seasons of superstar quality. It would be nice to give him the tools to capitalize on this time.
If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
Thank you for seeing my point.
If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
I said when we had this conversation in a fanpost that my personal belief is retaining Ryan Kalil should be the Panthers’ #1 priority next off-season, with DeAngelo Williams second.
As for the rest of it, I think Neil hit is on the head in his attempt to mediate. I don’t really think he needed to be jumped on for it.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
You see, Neil
This was the information I was looking for.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Sep 7, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe we'd resign DWill trade Stewart?
Not saying I’d prefer that, but at least we’d get some serious value, instead of losing a guy for nothing.
I just think Sutton can be a quality backup, and Goodson at some point needs real minutes. And that’s never going to happen with 4 deep like this. Something has to give at some point.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
depending on how Stewart and others perform this year,
they may look to franchise D-Lo to either keep him around another season or try and get some value out of him. These CBA negotiations are causing all kinds of problems at one of the worst possible times with so many key players due for new contracts.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Sep 7, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
if the don't resign him by end of season of course...
which I think they will.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Sep 7, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Great point
How much would they owe him if the franchised him?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
average of top 5 at his position
comes out to around 4-5 mil for the year I think.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Sep 7, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually bringing up the CBA gives me an even crazier idea
Maybe JR is really concerned about a lockout. And they see trading Sutton for a draft pick as pointless. It would mean losing a player this year, for a pick that we have no clue when we’d actually be able to use.
Hmmmmmm???
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Correct me if I'm wrong but there would still be a draft, right?
It would just delay how long it would be before the picks could sign
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
But when would that pick see the field?
Nobody knows right now. But we would lose Sutton this year. Sure as hell wouldn’t trade him now for what could be a 2012 rookie.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Every source I've seen says there will be a 2011 NFL Draft
Regardless of whether or not there’s a lockout, there will be a draft. Like James said, it would only affect when players could sign.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
I think he's saying that rookies from the 2011 draft won't be able to play until the 2012 season if there's a lockout.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Sep 11, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Could be gameplaning for the future
DeAngelo’s close to ‘THE AGE’ for RBs, and Sutton’s only 23.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Sep 7, 2010 1:16 PM EDT reply actions
Oh hell Munnerlyn....you just said you're against D-Will
The D-Will fan club president is about to come after you…
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
He's in my picture, over there ===>
So I have immunity towards ERL =O
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Sep 7, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, you two...
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Sep 7, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Where the !@#$! was all this during the off-season?
I suggested trading DWill while we had the opportunity and depth to do so, and got chewed out like piece of raw-hide. Chris McClain of the Mac Attack even got on here and ripped me for it.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
ha ha
nice!
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Wow James, everyone reads WAY too much into your posts
There is absolutely no chance in hell the Panthers wont try to re-sign D-Willy. Just because we didnt give up Sutton in an undisclosed trade doesnt mean anything except they like Sutton more than what was offered. That’s about all there is to it. God willing, 34 and 28 will be carrying the rock for us as long as possible
This would have been the easier route, well said DD.
I agree. RB is not the en vouge position anymore, so I have to think that hell sign like a 5 year, $42M deal.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Sep 7, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
oops
42M is 7 year money, I meant 30-32M for a five year extension. If you at the franchise number for a RB, it is one of the lowest paid positions in the league.
Darren Sproles was franchised last season because of his brilliant playoff performance after the 2008 season. The Chargers were not crazy to franchise him because the number was only between 5-6M (which is the average of the 5 highest paid RBs in the league).
My point is that even the highest paid RBs aren’t sniffing these huge deals like QBs, CBs, and DEs.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Sep 7, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Because he's so much of a pessimist
Let him wallow in his pool of negativity. I for one know for a fact we’re going to win the Superbowl and Double Trouble will be together, both going to ProBowls for the next 10 years. Not going to let ol’ James pessimism get me down.
Psst… He sometimes refers to himself as a “realist”. Ha!
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I think the indicates that the Panthers think they can end up getting more out of Sutton
So let’s say that next offseason comes and we are able to re-sign everyone. Best case scenario. That leaves us with Double Trouble, Sutton, and Goodson (who for all intensive purposes, seems to now “get it”). That gives us the deepest RB pool in the league. Let’s go further to say that Sutton has a productive year in his current Tertiary RB position (think, Tashard Choice-like numbers), then all of the sudden you may be able to trade him for a 3rd or 4th round pick instead of a 7th round pick now.
I think the Panthers are very high on Sutton, and they see that he has yet to reach his full potential. Once he has shows some more flashes of brilliance, he becomes more valuable either as a contributor to this team, or as trade bait to another team.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Good running backs in the league these days are a dime a dozen.
Surely there’s one in free agency that’s just as good as Sutton. I’m curious what they were willing to offer.
stuff 'bout stuff.
While I agree RB's are dime a dozen..
I can’t think of a FA running back that can average 5.7 yards per carry.
If D-Will and J-Stew were to both come down with diarrhea on any given Sunday and thus couldn’t play in fear of sh*tting themselves with every hit, I wouldn’t fear Sutton starting the game (as I would Goodson, who I currently feel is hit or miss)
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
Actually I think that would be a benefit...
Just put a toilet in the tunnel behind the endzone…
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
D-Will in the huddle...
“Matt, just tell Davidson to shut up talking in your helmet already and just hand me the ball – I gotta take a $#!+ man…”
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
On 12 attempts?
I think if you let 10 receivers rush 12 times, a couple could pull off that average. 12 attempts isn’t a large enough sample size. I’m probably not giving him enough credit though. He is good for a backup. There’s probably not a free agent who is quite as good as him.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Sep 7, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Who was it?
I’m betting it was Denver. Their RBs are dropping like flies.
Hello. My name is Inigo Montana. You killed my coach... prepare to die.
seahawks, from what we've heard
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Sep 7, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
they were trying to get rid of Julius Jones
but he took a pay cut to stay from what I’ve read.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
Seattle put in a roster claim on former Green Bay running back Kregg Lumpkin, a player Seahawks GM John Schneider obviously knew from his Packers’ days, but Tampa Bay got him first because of its better claim position. (it appears that they’re looking)
Schefter is now reporting that Jones reworked his contract in order to remain with the team.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
If the 'hawks were looking for a starting RB in trying to get Sutton...
it just makes me wonder how they feel about Forsett. There’s a bit of controversy I think there, between Forsett vs. L. Washington. Enough about the ‘hawks.
I think too many people are grabbing for straws searching for why we didn’t accept a trade. Obviously, you wouldn’t take a 6th or 7th for Sutton, because he’s worth more than that. If either of our premier guys goes down, Sutton can handle those snaps with less of a potential drop-off than Goodson. You have to keep a stable of backs, because they get hurt. What possibly would be the point in giving up the one area of great depth for a late pick in a weak draft? I don’t think it has anything to do with D’Lo or free agency or CBA at all.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
letting someone go for draft choice next year
means a team has to make TWO risks – filling a roster spot this year, and then drafting someone useful next year.
I’d have to think that they would be better off trying to incorporate more swing passes or something else to use the resource, rather than trying to hit on both risks.
The coaching staff have a real tough decision to make this week
Is Sutton even going to be active on game days?
I think it’s going to come down to the Kick Off Returner, Punt Returner and Defensive Tackle. The Panthers have to trim 7 players (this week) off the 53 man roster for a game day jersey. If Goodson won the KOR, and Munnerlyn won the PR, it’s hard to find a spot on the 45 for Sutton.
You have to assume that it will be McClain, Norwood, Neblett, Duckworth, Edwards, Gettis, and Sutton. He has been playing ST’s but not particularly effective. If Sutton gets a jersey for game day, I think they have to deactivate Neblett and Hayden and run a rotation of Leonard, Johnson, Landri, Brayton, C Johnson at DT and Brayton, C Johnson, Brown and Hardy at DE.
Probably going to catch some flack for the Norwood on inactive list, but he’s looked lost on multiple occasions and isn’t close to being effective as an NFL linebacker yet. You can go here to watch one example if you want:
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010082157/2010/PRE2/jets@panthers/watch
click on the Tomlinson 20 yard run video.
Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.
Neblett & Duckworth aren't striking any fear into the hearts of others
with their names. Sounds like a brand of dress shoe.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
or a law firm...
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
I’d love to give flack for Norwood but if time to learn is what he needs, I fully support giving him that time. I think he has potential to be dominant but he must learn first.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
You forget Pike.
Im pretty sure he wont be getting a jersey on game days unless there is an injury to one of the QB’s.
"The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity." - Lewis Grizzard
D Wills will be resigned
If you question this…just watch the highlights. Nothing else needs to be said about it.
As for Sutton…the guy’s got ability, toughness, and heart. Why would you not want him on your team. Therefore, it would take a fantastic offer to pry him away from this team. Keep in mind that with the amount of young players on this team…Hurney isn’t going to want too many draft picks heading into next season…considering that some of those picks won’t make this roster.
What? Guys with highlight reals never get released?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Eh?
I guess Victor Cruz is the best WR in the NFL then?
And just about every player in the NFL has ability, toughness, and heart. It’s not hard to come by. Regardless, I do love me some Sutton.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Sep 8, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
There is no way in hell
That we won’t try our best to resign D Will. We were willing to make Peppers one of the highest paid defensive players in the NFL. If he’s not playing for us next year, it’s because he doesn’t want to.
Fourth and inches is the distance between obscurity and immortality.
Precisely
But to assume that just because we have money he’ll automatically be a Panther is shortsighted.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Absolutely
There’s always situations where he could leave. But if everything stays as planned, I can’t see him playing for anyone else.
Fourth and inches is the distance between obscurity and immortality.
We also have to remember the 2 extra games a year in 2012
I think we will do our best to keep DWill because we will need the best two headed attack we can muster. This may also be why Matt Moore remains a Panther for the foreseeable future. We currently have two starting caliber QB’s on our team. We have two starting caliber RB’s on the team as well. With 18 full games, these big time players are going to need to be rotated out much more frequently. We may even see times in the middle of the season where QB’s are rotated like pitchers in baseball.
I don’t worry that the whomever Richardson has calling the shots next year will keep DWill around. Otherwise I think we would have traded him over the summer rather than lose him to free agency.
If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
Wrong, Wrong Wrong
Plain and simple it was a John Fox move, Foxy has always wanted to keep a guy that was similar to Nick Goings in that he could play ST, RB, FB, hell way things are going would be surprised to see Sutton lined up at WR LOL. Anyways resigning D-Will will happen, Stewart cannot start and doesn’t need to b/c he is or does rather get hurt quite abit. Seriously I don’t think the guy has ever practiced for more than a week at a time straight through. The idea of Stewart taking over Full time is interesting but with so much money to spend and so many guys we need to lock down such as Beason/Stewart in 2012, Kalil after 2010 and what to do with T.Davis all though he would have to come back after week seven strong and produce for carolina to make another run at him and really R. Marshall deserves another deal as well you have to ask yourself is Williams or Stewart your guy b/c that decison is going to have come to a head and decision an more than likely Stewart is going to the guy. Sucks I wish we could keep both but I would keep Beason, Marshall, Kalil, or Stewart over Williams. Love to keep them both however but Sutton’s trade value couldn’t have been very high and for just a 6th or 7th rounder I would have just kept him as well. PLus he is still hurt and you cannot trade an injuried player anyways I’m I not correct ?
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Sep 7, 2010 9:16 PM EDT reply actions
I could be wrong here but I thought Stewart had only 1 lingering injury? That would mean he doesn’t get injured quite a bit, but got injured once and it has lingered. I also can’t agree with the statement that he cant start because he has never missed a game that mattered. Practice means little when you’re destroying defenses every week, imo.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
Stew CAN'T start?
Those last 2 games that he started were his best of the year.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Sep 8, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
And one of them I believe set a team record for most yards in a game, correct?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Who should get more carries Goodson or Sutton?
They are very different backs. But if we intend to keep both Stewart and DeAngelo long term, then there is no reason to keep both Goodson and Sutton if they have trade value. I tend to think Goodson is the most intriguing guys on the roster. And think with a good amount of change-of-pace snaps per game could really become a player.
But if Double Trouble stays healthy, there’s no way Goodson or Sutton get on the field much.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Sutton
Goodson’s running does not fit our playbook, Sutton can step in for Will/Stew and fill their roles albeit at a weaker level. Change of pace mean you have to call plays for it, which means less specialization like we have now.
We ran plays to his skill-set during the pre season
So it’s not like they are completely ignorant about what makes him tick. But it did seem like last year we expected him just to run between the tackles like our other backs. But a few screen passes and sweep or outside running plays each game could do him well.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
JC_GSO's mention of the CBA is very important
If a lockout is indeed pending… Then why give up a RB that we could use this year, for a pick that we have no clue when we could use? Could this be a sign that JR’s insider voice is predicting a lockout???
[insert Twilight Zone music here]
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
MORE CONSPIRACY!
Maybe that’s why the Panthers were fine parting with the 2011 2nd rounder for Armanti Edwards
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
EXACTLY!
And I hear Tony Pike is John Fox’s son from a secret affair. Why else would he have made the roster… Think about it!
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I hear he...
… married Bill Cowher’s daughter.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Sutton's happy (via Twitter)
Can’t thank everyone individually on here but thx to everyone for the support n luv tht I’m still a panther
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Number of carries
D-Will has only had 754 carries over the last 4 years. If he averages about 250 carries going forward, he should still be able to produce a high level for about 5 more years.
Given that this is a unique scenario with the CBA issue and this being D-Will’s last chance to cash in with a big contract, there is less certainty about his future here. But I’d expect that the Panthers do whatever they can to sign him to a long term deal. I am not too worried about the D-Will…his leadership is important to the team and Fox and Hurney put a premium on that.
Related Subject: Unfortunately I think Thomas Davis might be gone at the end of the season. It appears that we may have options at LB and Davis has become injury prone. Extending Beason would also become a priority in this scenario.
Extending Beason is always a priority
Always.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Couple Points...
1) Everyone overreacted to the insinuation that DeAngelo might not get resigned. It is a fact that there is a possibility we may lose him in free agency. It’s just unquestionable. No one wants to see him go though.
2) DeAngelo is apart of that nucleus or core or whatever you want to call it that Fox and Hurney have put together. Even moreso than Steve Smith at this point. We will have to replace Smith far sooner than we would ever have to replace DeAngelo. We have about 3 more years with Smith before he’s going to start looking retirement in the face. DeAngelo won’t even be 30 by then and because of Stewart, he will have much less wear and tear on his body than a typical RB.
3) Part of the purge was likely to address this exact fact. DeAngelo is a top 5 (maybe even top 3) back. Everyone knows it. Stewart is also right up there with him. We will have to pay both of them like the top tier players they are if we are going to keep our two-headed rushing monster and honestly, we should. He has said he is completely okay with playing under his rookie contract, that he feels like he is obligated too, but that someone also needs to show him that they value him and his abilities. And he deserves it, so too does Stewart.
4) As for Sutton, he is not insurance against DeAngelo. That’d be like getting a $200,000 car and not getting collision coverage. He simply isn’t capable of the same things DeAngelo is. Sorry…
5) That being said though, is anyone surprised that the guys who are so fiercely devoted to drafting and keeping their players that they won’t even look at free agents would opt not to trade one of their players? I’m not surprised, at all.
Good points
Covers pretty much everything that needs to be said. I particularly like point 4 – Sutton is probably being held on to because of his versatility rather than anything else.
I don’t see Smith retiring for another 5 years but I agree that you can’t expect him to be the lead WR beyond 2013.
Also, Sutton was picked up from the Vikings I believe.
Sutton was waived by Green Bay, and we claimed him.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
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