Panther Fans High Expectations Crashing With a Thud
by Jaxon on Sep 20, 2010 11:33 PM EDT
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I'm amazed at how quickly we went from mildly optimistic to completely pessimistic about not only the Panthers 2010 season but in some sense the franchise as a whole. After watching the Panthers offense make preseason history by not scoring an offensive TD, QB Matt Moore throws three red zone INTs in the opener. Charlotte fans are leery of franchise owners not committed to winning having run Charlotte Hornets owner George Shinn out of town for a number reasons, including going cheap on players.
If Jerry Richardson is trying to prove you can win without high priced players then he might want to work on the winning part. The question is how much is Richardson willing to risk to make his point? He has more at stake than a bad CBA agreement. He might be making decisions that adversely affect this franchise for years to come beyond any short term CBA contract. We have to look no further than the Panthers narrowly avoiding a black out of their home opener. There were noticeable swathes of empty blue seats in BoA stadium in the 2nd half.
Yet thinking JR might allow a Panthers losing season to make a point is a better thought than the only reasonable other motive. Is Richardson simply a businessman looking to maximize profit? I can't imagine the media hasn't asked him to clarify the reasons he didn't pursue any FA's this offseason, why he purged so many veterans that look like they could be helping us now (Moose & Hoover). Why he won't go ahead and offer contracts to his key upcoming free agents (Williams & Kalil). These are very good questions Panther fans would like answers to. Numerous other teams have re-signed there marquee players with no worries about the CBA. Why should a player like DeAngelo Williams re-sign with the Panthers after playing with the risk of injury in 2010? He will certainly get more money elsewhere and has no loyalty cred to repay the Panthers.
Yet here we are now thanking our lucky stars the draft Gods shined on us in April. Our dice roll with the UDFA QB came up craps this time. Even the most sour Panther fan has to admit Clausen gives the Panthers as much of a chance to win this season as Moore...
And that's when you hear the THUD!
...more after the jump...
Our expectations come crashing like a 40 lb sack of cat food hitting the floor. That's when we realize we are starting a rookie QB for the remainder of the season, a sure indicator of the dreaded ‘rebuilding season'. How many teams go to the SB with a rookie QB? We also realize that if the Panthers are going to turn things around it will have to be with the players on the roster. To suggest the Panthers might pursue a trade for a player like WR Vincent Jackson is nothing more than a lame joke these days in Carolina. Finally, the thud resounds loudly when we get a feeling the one guy that could change things for the positive might not be too worried about it. I can only hope all those empty blue seats were not what JR had anticipated and that maybe he could make a simply gesture of confidence.
But there lies another rub. That would have to include HC John Fox, he of the lame duck collar. In this day and time in the NFL if you don't want a coach you simply fire him regardless of his contract status. You don't let him play out his last season as a lame duck. If that is a wrong characterization of the situation then he should simply make a public pledge of support to the coach and staff. I don't recall hearing from Richardson since he defended the increase in ticket prices. More likely there is a real rift in communication between Fox and Richardson as both coast to their inevitable parting. How does that support winning in 2010? It doesn't plain and simple.
So now that I'm resigned to a rebuilding season I can watch our new franchise QB mature and who knows, maybe a wild card slot is still achievable. One thing I feel about Clausen is that he won't crumble under the pressure. (Of course I thought Moore would protect the football) The kid has moxie and has been in the spot light since 6th grade. Both of his older brothers started at Tennessee and the younger Jimmy has been heralded as the best of the bunch. Already we see I kid not afraid of pressure nor willing to throw a ball into coverage. All of his INTs to date bounced off of a receivers hands. He throws the short passes well and with more zip than Moore. That will open up the deep ball, something we haven't seen much from Clausen but we know he can throw it. The kid does give us hope as we adjust to the thought of actually having a franchise QB.
So Panther fans, did you hear the thud too?
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To suggest the Panthers might pursue a trade for a player like WR Vincent Jackson is nothing more than a lame joke these days in Carolina.
In fairness, that’s always been a lame joke in Carolina. The only high priced free agents this management team have gone after were Kenny Lucas and Mike Wahle. Neither really justified their price tags.
Gilbert wasn't a FA. And the people involved with that trade (on our end) should have been executed.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Ok. THIS is our hopes
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Being horrible has it's advantages
We could get a stud WR in AJ Green or Julio Jones, or one of the many stud DL. It would help if we had the 2nd round pick that was wasted on Armanti (I’m not a fan of his, at all. Never saw the point in using a pick on a guy who can’t even play the position you drafted him for).
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Sep 20, 2010 11:49 PM EDT reply actions
I think you'll change your opinion on him in 3 years when he's Wes Welker 2.0
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
I know ... I'm feeling ballsy tonight. :-)
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Well, then
I predict David Gettis will be our #2 and very capable of taking over for the 34 year-old Steve Smith when he retires in 2014.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Sep 21, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, and...
We’ll have released Jarrett, who will have signed with the Colts for depth purposes. He will end up starting, and have 100 receptions for 1300 yards and 9 TDs.
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Sep 21, 2010 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
You need eye surgery....
if you think Jarrett will ever catch 100 balls in a season. Well, I take that back…..as much as he sucks, he might catch 100 balls on his chin.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
That was the third statement.
My reply was to A) A.E. developing into WW2.0 and B) Gettis taking over for Steve Smith when he retires.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn......
You are a wise man. I too share your view on Edwards. What a waste of a draft pick. (I’m talking about the pick we burned to move up for a guy that should have been picked 2-3 rounds later). I hope to hell he gets good enough to be active on game day.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
Wise? More like short sighted.
Let’s reserve judgement on whether Edwards was a good pick or not for a couple of years shall we?
By the way, in the 2nd round this year, there is going to be jack squat in the way of sure fire talent still available. This past year was one of the deepest drafts in history, this year will be one of the shallowest.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
I don't like the pick....period.
There was no reason to burn a future pick to go up and get him. If they HAD to move up, they should have at least picked a player that had played their respective position in college. With all of our needs, we can’t afford to be gambling with future picks and taking risks like this. I hope one day I can say that I’m glad thay did it. As for now, I think it was wasteful and stupid.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
by ALAC on Sep 21, 2010 11:13 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think you will change your mind in 3 years.
I’m not an App State homer by any means — but I think he will be a special player once he’s adjusted to the NFL game.
Think Josh Cribbs, only better.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
I'd give up a second rounder for Cribbs the return man....
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I think Armanti will be just as good as a return man as Cribbs...
Add in the fact that he has a better arm than Cribbs and can throw out of the wildcat, mountaineer, or whatever they call it — and he’s a more dangerous player.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
*of a return man
not as a return man … stupid typos
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Cribbs isn't a very good receiver.
Edwards needs to show up in the slot to justify the pick in my opinion. He doesn’t have the explosion I look for in a punt returner.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Cribbs had a 65 yard TD reception two days ago
He’s on my fantasy team and has scored over 10 points both weeks.
Hmmm
At 27, here are his career receiving stats:
Link
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Cribbs experienced the same resistance that Armanti is getting
FCS school, too small, etc.
But he was so good they couldn’t stop him from succeeding at ST. Now, this season, the Browns realized they better use him at WR too. 2 games in to his WR campaign he’s already picked up a 65 yard TD.
I look at Edwards the same way. The best thing the panthers can do is find ways to get him the ball, because he knows what to do with it.
Here are Joey Galloways stats. He has had a pretty nice career but that doesn’t mean he’s any good now. Vice versa, just because Cribbs hasn’t been given much of a chance at WR in the past doesn’t mean he isn’t going to be any good this year.
Patience should be key but apparently we have to win the Super Bowl tomorrow.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
Because a guy that's had one good game in 5 years can't be classed as a good receiver.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Hard to say
How explosive Edwards is at the moment. He’s clearly overthinking things at this point. Let’s wait to see how explosive he is once he’s playing instinctively.
Yep, and its a good thing we didn't trade away 2011 first round pick!!
But I actually would prefer Jonathan Baldwin over Julio Jones. AJ Green is a stud but will probably be the first to go. Who knows though, the college season is only just beginning…
Being horrible has it's advantages
If I’m ever the head of an advertising agency, this WILL be one of the ad campaigns I use. Brilliantly hilarious! Much like my marketing idea for a douche: Gee, Your Vagina Smells Terrific!
Top 10 pick here we come…I think we trade the pick for more picks. Considering we are missing our #2 next year
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
I think.........
If we end up with a really high 1st rounder, we’ll trade it to New England for a handful of 6th rounders and a 4th string DT.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
I know you're joking, but our FO is one of the best in the league.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Yea, I know.
But I do think that we get the short end of the stick with some of our trades. Not this bad though.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
by ALAC on Sep 21, 2010 12:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Did the Panthers not look like garbage through the first 3 games of 2009?
We had 87 points hung on us, converted 36% of 3rd downs and turned the ball over 12 times.
Despite all that most would agree that if Fox switched to Matt Moore a few games earlier we had a shot at the playoffs.
Yet in 2010 with an easier schedule we should assume that can’t happen again? Please… if there’s one thing I know about Carolina Panthers’ football it’s that right when they break your heart they turn around restore your faith in just a few weeks.
Lets revisit 2009:
- Offense: Averaged 293 yards, scored an average of 12.3 points
- Defense: Allowed an average of 362 yards, allowed an average of 29 points
Now let’s look at the first two games of 2010:
- Offense: Averaging 255 yards, scoring an average of 12.5
- Defense: Allowing an average of 327 yards, allowing an average of 25.5 points
Scoring more than 2009 and allowing less than 2009…. I’m far from throwing in the towel yet
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 20, 2010 11:57 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I agree with what your saying, James
And that, to me, is the reason it seems like they’re giving up on Moore too early this season. The whole offense is sucking. When the rest of the boys (hey OL talking to you!) get it together we should be in good position.
No matter the QB i expect a marked improvement in the overall play of the offense, based on my expectations for the OL to get better in pass & run blocking.
He's still making terrible decisions and missing open receivers.
I supported Moore to the fullest and wanted the best for him but I have always had him on a short leash. We can’t throw away our season by letting him continue.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
How about put Armanti in already
He did throw more yards in College than Mr. Clausen. And he also did something else that Mr. Clausen had trouble with, win games.
by Kyle Gray Beach on Sep 21, 2010 12:13 AM EDT reply actions
why are so many people asking for Armanti at QB? NEVER going to happen
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Thank you.
These guys are delusional.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
I think he played in a lower division
…and we drafted him for his athleticism.
I am also befuddled by the emphasis on people who win games at the college level (this is general observation – lot a people talk about this). If that was the case, why no love for Tim Tebow? Ryan Leaf took his team to the Rose Bowl – How did that turn out? Alex Smith – what was he 21-1 as a college starter?
Oh my god!!!!!
Would you guys PLEASE forget about Edwards playing QB. IT’S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
This is the problem when you draft a home town favourite.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I think its amplified for Edwards because he played QB
but is switching positions and given the acclaim he had in college
Neither are all that hard to do at the collegiate level he played at
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on Sep 21, 2010 12:14 AM EDT reply actions
pfft.
Winning a game at I-AA with I-AA teammates is just as hard as winning a game at I-A with I-A teammates.
Armanti may have been a man among boys, playing at a level of football that only after he started his first game for the Mountaineers did the I-A scouts notice they screwed up (he was recruited by Clemson, never offered a scholarship, imagine him and CJ Spiller on the same field). But he also was surrounded by talent that was definitely fit for the I-AA game. So riddle me this.. Was it any easier for a superb QB like Armanti Edwards to win with low grade talent at his level of football than for Jimmy Clausen to win with mediocre to high grade I-A talent at his level?
People rarely consider the supporting cast before dismissing Armanti’s gaudy I-AA numbers, and that irks me. I think if you put him at the helm of the WVU offense instead of Pat White, you end up with equal if not better results. Or maybe if he were playing at Michigan right now instead of Denard Jackson? We will never know the real answer.
Point is, the Panthers drafted Armanti to be a WR because his size and athleticism demand it. They drafted Pickles to be a QB, because, well, he is good at it and can’t really be anything else.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
The one thing most people overlook is
the passing yards. Forget about the running yards as the players on the other sides were 1-AA/FCS talent. BUT the 10,300+ yards is the most impressive number if you stop and think about it for a minute. He was throwing to FCS level receivers who, for the most part, were there for a reason. They were not good enough to start for a FBS team. Keeping that in mind, Edwards passing had to be even more accurate than if he was playing on an FBS team since he couldn’t depend on his receivers to make the circus catches that you see in the top division and he couldn’t just throw the ball up in the area and depend on the receivers to go get the ball (aka Jake to Smitty last year). I saw all the games Edwards played in and he has a much stronger and more accurate arm than many give him credit for. Could he make it as a QB in the NFL? His build and coming from a spread offense go against him but he can learn. Who really knows but one thing is for sure, we will never know that answer in Carolina.
He was also throwingin to FCS secondaries
Edwards is not gong to succeed as a QB at this level, he’s not tall enough, not big enough, and not experienced enough to play QB in the NFL. No one, and I mean NO one in the NFL was scouting him as a Quarterback.
What do 32 NFL collegiate scouting programs know that you don’t? Whatever it is, Edwards knew it too, which is why he was showcasing his punting and receiving ability at the combine.
Yep.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I’m regretting this pick more and more every time someone suggests he’s an NFL QB. He’s not.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
why regret the pick more and more?
He isn’t going to be an NFL QB, and I agree that those calling for it are delusional. However, you should be getting more excited knowing that your team finally has a true gadget play threat. The reason that so many people want him to get a shot at QB is because he really does have a great arm, he just doesn’t have NFL level size. What he does have is great speed and elusiveness, and as we are finding out, good hands. Once he learns to run good routes he will be a threat at WR and a threat to throw the ball as well.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Exactly...
He’s our Josh Cribbs, only he’s going to be better.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
My regret stems from....
Having to read post after post of comments suggesting that he could play QB in the NFL. At least you can agree that this isn’t realistic. Thank you for that.
I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault. -Jack Tatum
by ALAC on Sep 21, 2010 12:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
UNC was so scared of Armanti...
That they payed ASU not to come to Chapel Hill and play.
UNC had scheduled a home game against App, but after the Michigan game, the UNC AD realized that it was a no win for the Tar Heels. ASU comes to town and UNC wins: so what. ASU comes to town and embarrasses UNC: then they’re a laughing stock.
The Tar Heels respect Armanti. You should too.
right now UNC is a better team (when all players are on the field)
Tennessee is in rebuilding mode for at least this season and next, they are trying to lower their schedule difficulty.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
That actually is true.
UNC cancelled on us after the win over Michigan, so did many other programs.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Just to set the record straight
Yes they did cancel the game with ASU as well as the game against Colorado. They then attempted to reschedule with Penn State and Texas A&M who both rejected their offer. UNC then tried Oklahoma (rejected)
I don’t care one way or another, but let’s have a complete story before telling the story one sided.
by adamwanderer on Sep 21, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
They might have tried to reschedule OK and PSU
But the fact is, a loss to one of those teams is ok becasue those teams are powerhouses.
A home loss to ASU (which was a very real possibility) would have been a huge embarrassment.
Rose colored glasses
As an AD why risk it? If you are building a program and your coach is asking for competitive opponents the risk/reward for playing a team like ASU is just not worth it. If you stomp a mudhole in them like LSU or beat them by two touchdowns like NCSU – “You should have beaten them.” But if you lose, your rivals will let you hear about it for 50 years even if you finish in the top 25 the same season.
by adamwanderer on Sep 21, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Gah
You guys have me breaking down ASU – which I love. This sucks. Be realistic. We are what we are. Be proud of being a very good FCS team and leave it at that.
by adamwanderer on Sep 21, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
NCSU won 20-10, i was there (both my alma maters)
And Armanti ONLY played 1 series: the final one. The starting QB for App that game threw multiple INTs in the end zone too. The next game Armanti took over and the team didn’t lose the rest of the year.
With out Armanti, ASU is very good FCS team. With him they were a threat to beat anybody. Even LSU, at the very last minute, moved the ASU game in the bayou up 7 hours to a 12 noon kick-off because of a “hurricane threat” that never materialized. I’d say trying to put App at the disadvantage by giving them less time to prepare and making them play in the LA noon heat. Then they spent the whole game with 2 spies keeping an eye on Armanti. LSU beat them roundly, but they game-planned against and respected App and Edwards.
I don’t blame UNC for backing out. If i was them i would have been scared too.
Pipe Dreams
You mean Hurricane Gustav? The second strongest/most destroctive hurricane of 2008? The one that caused 6.8 billion in damage, killed 153 people and triggered the largest evacuation in US history? You mean that hurricane? I was wondering why they moved the game up 6 hours when I was prepping to respond to the location. I mean silly me, here I was thinking about a Cat 4 storm hitting Louisiana as being a legitimate reason to change the schedule, when all along it was because the the defending FBS nat’l champions were scared of Armanti Edwards….
by adamwanderer on Sep 21, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I was there too and the final score was 23-10
by adamwanderer on Sep 21, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing like watching a 3-9 team
hold your team to less than 150 yards total offense
by adamwanderer on Sep 21, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Then the next game Armanti started and we didn't lose the rest of the year
We’re talking about Armanti, remember? That was his 1st college game and did NOT play in that game except 1 drive.
As a Panther fan and ASU fan I salute you
But your reality filter needs to be tweaked a bit is all I am saying. You seriously tried to tell me LSU adjusted the game schedule to help them deal with Armanti…that’s just asinine and indicative of someone so blinded by love of team they can’t perceive reality.
ASU at its absolute best is the best FCS has to offer and is a half-decent FBS team. It’s just a matter of talent and depth. It’s is not an indictment or negative thing to say. It is what it is. I’m not 6’8" and 280lbs. I’m 6’2" and 200. That’s OK, nothing wrong with that.
by adamwanderer on Sep 22, 2010 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm saying LSU respected Edwards and ASU
They all saw the Michigan tape. They game planned to stop Armanti specifically because they new a lack of respect and/or preparation could realistically net them a loss.
They didn’t reschedule the game to stifle Armanti, but LSU wanted that game over and int he books ASAP. If moving the kick off up 7 hours to noon gave the Tigers an additional advantage then i’m sure they were happy about that, because they sure as hell didn’t want to lose.
At least LSU was willing to hold up their end of the bargain and give us a shot – that is more than can be said for the Tarheels.
I think dumping ASU
and trying to schedule legitimate nat’l powers in FBS is smart. If you are a middling level FBS team, going out and getting your arse kicked by Oklahoma is better than having it done by an FCS team. Which if either of us have watched Tarheel football back then – is precisely what would have happened.
by adamwanderer on Sep 22, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
For an FBS team
That would be like getting your tailed kicked by Urkel in front of your new girlfriend. The catch being knowing in advance that he was a 20 year practitioner of Krav Maga…that would just be stupid, not cowardly.
by adamwanderer on Sep 22, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
See that is where you are wrong
Edwards worked out at QB at the combine, in fact he did nothing else. He did not work out at any position. In his private workouts he did all three (QB, WR, and KR).
Does he have the best chance of making it at this level as a WR? Absolutely. No sane person will disagree with that. But the point made above is that having over 10,000 yards passing is a gaudy statistic even in I-AA football. It as at least as hard as it is in I-A football. Sure you are throwing against a I-AA secondary, but you’re also throwing to I-AA receivers. For every blown coverage that gets you a big TD throw there will always be a plethora of dropped passes and bad routes that cause you to miss out on more.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
You're both right
Cyberjag is correct that nobody in the NFL was looking at Edwards as a QB, and you are correct that he worked out exclusively as a QB at the combine in Indianapolis.
Players can declare which position they want to work out at, honestly, it was better for the Panthers to have Edwards work out at QB because it meant his stock fell further. The teams interested in Armanti before the 7th round or undrafted (which is what his QB grade was) were all teams who saw him in his private workouts where he showed he could play WR.
As a QB there is no doubt in my mind if Tony Pike is going in the 6th round and Max Hall is undrafted that Edwards would have been an undrafted QB also.
As an athlete and a WR he becomes a hybrid player that most teams are looking to have one of… thus his value became top 3 rounds. If Edwards went into Indy and worked at WR exclusively I bet you would have heard his name mentioned as a possible 2nd rounder with Dexter McCluster, another ‘tweener’
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Aye, that was the part I meant
He did his working out at QB, even though everyone was looking at him to be this hybrid type WR. He actually had some sort of minor injury at the combine and didn’t post any measurables. He was however timed for those measurables in his private workout later.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
His stock falling didn't stop us spending a 2nd round pick on him.....
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Because Indianapolis were going to draft him 12 picks later
That’s why we traded up. I’m willing to give it more than 2 inactive games before I declare it a bust.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 21, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
I find it funny that Jarrett has had 4 years of opportunity only to fail time and time again, and there are still people who will argue to their death that he’s not a bust, but Armanti has been inactive for 2 games and he’s already the worst draft pick we’ve ever made? It doesn’t make much sense to me…
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Remember..
We gotta win the Super Bowl tomorrow to satisfy some of these guys. Screw waiting for February.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
According to the beat writer for the Indianapolis Star is was
For whatever reason Edwards was the player half the league wanted to play ‘chicken’ with. Lots of teams wanted him, but everyone wanted to see how low he could fall before they got him.
The Panthers were the ones to pull the trigger. Did they pay a rather high price? Sure… but the scouts know years in advance who’s coming out so maybe they didn’t like any speed, slot receiving prospects scheduled to be in the next draft.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 21, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting.
I wonder what it is about Edwards that keeps him being undervalued – if Tater is right about him being recruited by Clemson. People are always playing ‘chicken’ with him it seems.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Plus it was marketing
Armanti Panther’s jerseys are selling like hot cakes.
And if the season continues to tank…i can envision some November and December games where half the BOA crowd are ASU fans.
James didn't say his stock fell
In fact, his stock rose since NFL scouts saw that he was more than just a WR project prospect because he has that utility as a gadget guy.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Erm - he said his stock fell because he chose to work out as a QB at the combine.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Poorly worded by me
His stock never grew because he worked out as solely a QB would be more accurate.
His stock gained momentum at private workouts and pro-days where he did more
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 21, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Is there any record of who attended that pro day/who he worked out privately for?
It’d be interesting to know.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
When Gantt was in Boone for the App Pro day he said that the following teams were in attendance:
- Indianapolis
- Pittsburgh
- Cleveland
- Philadephia
- Carolina (obviously)
Of those teams he said that Indy and Pitt seemed the most interested in his opinion.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 21, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
If I can find his old pre-draft blog link again...
I could tell you exactly who it was… There was a large group on his “pro day” and then he had several individual workouts scheduled, not necessarily all by teams that atteneded his pro day.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
So far I have found mentions of private meetings and workouts pre-draft with these teams:
Texans, Jets, Jaguars, Panthers, Colts, Browns, Steelers, Eagles, Falcons, Broncos, Redskins, Patriots, Dolphins, Ravens, Bills, Lions, Chiefs
here is a good quote from his Week 9 journal on who attended his pro-day
I had my pro day this morning and it went pretty well. I ran well and did all of the drills well. I worked out as a quarterback, receiver, and caught some punts.
There were about 10 scouts here and everyone was impressed. Among them were the Panthers, Redskins, Jaguars, Steelers, Eagles, Bills, Lions, Chiefs, Texans, and Ravens. The Ravens receivers coach was here and the Eagles quarterbacks coach. The Browns were also here.
All of the teams said they had me in the 4.4 range. I measured in at 5’11, 182 pounds. I got 13 reps of 225, broad jumped a 10’3, vertical jumped a 34.5, and I think my 3-cone was a 6.72.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Mainly because he already had a long list of private workouts either already scheduled or already completed
12 teams came to see him in Boone in total I believe, where he worked out at all 3 of this prospective positions.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
so it wasn't 12 on the pro day it was 10
But 17 teams in total either went to his pro day, scheduled a private workout, or flew him to their facilities for a workout and/or meeting with the staff.
Half the NFL was playing chicken it seems.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
And McCluster is a proven play maker at the highest college level.
Pretty tough to argue he’s comparable with Edwards, a converted QB. Especially in terms of immediate impact.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Agreed
But teams weren’t drafting Armanti for immediate impact, and if the Panthers were doing that, then they chose poorly.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
+1
To fully appreciate the Edwards pick, people must realize he was never intended to start, or even play, week 1 when drafted. This isn’t a scenario where he had so much hype and fell short. We’re getting exactly what we expected and wanted out of it. A slowly developing player that is, one day, going to come out and smack an opposing defense in the face for 150yds and 2 TDs and people (national, not fanbase) are going to say “Hey!……….. Who’s that guy?”. You’ll see his Fantasy Football stock rise over night and such will begin the next chapter in AE’s life, where we go on to win 10 Super Bowl rings back-to-back……. Ok, maybe it won’t go exactly as planned but whatever.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
I'd like to have seen Bradford or Clausen at that level for a game.
500 yards wouldn’t be out of the question.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I wouldn't go that far. They let him throw at the combine for a start.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Edwards is not gong to succeed as a QB at this level, he’s not tall enough, not big enough, and not experienced enough to play QB in the NFL
1) Replace “Edwards” with “Brees” and you have many of the same things that were said about him coming out of Purdue. Brees is 1 inch taller than Armanti, btw.
2) If a 4 year starter, 2 time national champ, that threw for 10, 300+ yards is “not experienced enough to play QB” i don’t think anybody is.
3) You obviously never saw him play QB, and are regurgitating the group think mentality that most people express about FCS competition. FYI, In 2007, Appalachian beat Michigan at the Big House on opening week of the season. Just two weeks later Notre Dame traveled to the Big House and got shut out 38-0.
I’m not saying Edwards is a better QB prospect than Clausen. What I am saying is that anybody who is badmouthing Armanti as a QB based on the fact that he played at a FCS school doesn’t know what they are talking about. The gap between FCS and FBS is closing. Ask Va Tech about that?
Wrong
He did not showcase his punt catching or receiving at the combine. He spent the entire time there working as a QB. And second, if “NO ONE IN THE NFL WAS SCOUTING HIM AS A QB” then why did all but one of the teams that came to ASU’s Pro Day and/or private workouts have him throwing the ball. Why waste time with that? Why not spend the entire time catching. Seems a big waste to have him throw a single pass if there wasn’t the slightest interest.
As for your first point, what does throwing to FCS secondaries have to do with throwing an accurate ball. All that means is the coverage wasn’t as good as FBS, doesn’t mean the balls didn’t still have to be placed on the money. For what it’s worth I agree he is not going to be an NFL QB because of his size. But those who question his arm are completely wrong.
Block quote didn't show.
This was what I was responding to.
He was also throwingin to FCS secondaries Edwards is not gong to succeed as a QB at this level, he’s not tall enough, not big enough, and not experienced enough to play QB in the NFL. No one, and I mean NO one in the NFL was scouting him as a Quarterback.
What do 32 NFL collegiate scouting programs know that you don’t? Whatever it is, Edwards knew it too, which is why he was showcasing his punting and receiving ability at the combine.
ARMANTI IS THE GREATEST QB IN TEH HISTORY OF ATHLETICS!!!!
EVER!!!!
If Chuck Norris had played college football he’d ask Armanti for pointers.
Clark Kent didn’t take it easy when playing football with mere mortals. He didn’t want to get shown up by Armanti!
Armanti once threw an interception just to see what it was like to force a fumble and run it back for a touchdown!
All NFL GM’s are ingrates and should be fired because Armanti isn’t QB for EVERY TEAM in the NFL!!!!
There….can we PLEASE STFU about Armanti as a QB now? Please for the love of God!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
by adamwanderer on Sep 22, 2010 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Sounds like a jealous Tarheel
I’m sure Butch Davis can purchase UNC a QB as good as Armanti someday. haha
As for now, i’m just glad the Panthers were the team smart enough to draft AE.
Hey Butch didn't purchase them - that'd be stupid
He had his coaching staff and ex-players buy players. Duh
;-)
by adamwanderer on Sep 22, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Good Lord
Why are you jumping on me? I didn’t start this, all I did was say that he had an accurate arm and people didn’t give him credit for it. I also said he was not an NFL QB so why rip me. This sounds more like the huddle than CSR.
Humor was intended in the form of hyperbole
My apologies if the joke was missed. That wasn’t the intention.
There is genuine frustration among many of us in the community due to a slew of ASU fans (of which I am a fan myself) that don’t have a realistic perspective on the program and Armanti’s abilities as a QB.
He was one of the all-time college greats at QB. There is a fairly sizable cross-section that seem to think that makes him a viable starting (read franchise worthy) QB for the Panthers.
I can only speak for myself, but I get the impression there are many of us that have tried to logically, politely and gently explain that he is not (an NFL franchise QB). In doing so, animosity, from what I can only explain as the perpetually slighted ASU fans, this is seemingly an all out attack on everything they stand for as human beings.
by adamwanderer on Sep 22, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks:
I apologize for not seeing the joke. I guess I spent too much time in the Huddle to not take things personally. I agree 100% that Armanti is not a NFL QB. His size, the system he ran, etc, all go against that. I guess I was making a point in the first post that he does have a great arm and then someone seized on that and it snowballed from there. I am an ASU fan also. Went to games as a kid when we were lucky to draw 10k to a game, visitors included. Went to school there, played there until I broke my leg in fall camp, and have spent many games walking the sidelines long before Armanti came there. I’ve seen him throw 50 and 60 yard passes on a rope and smoke the hands on 30-40 yard throws. And I agree that he can never be a franchise QB. I was just trying to tell someone that that opinion was not based on arm strength, as some have suggested. Thanks for your reply and again, sorry I misunderstood.
Jebus...
…I am SO happy to see this resolution to the debate. I’ve started to think a 50 response side thread with ad hominem responses and no resolution was to be expected on CSR these days.
SERIOUS respect for dealing with this so humbly and quickly…I was starting to lose a little hope. I only hope others will see this and recognize the wisdom in it as well. Thank you both.
Because he loved his school
Clemson tried to get him to transfer. I have talked to him personally about it. He told me that there was no way after all the things Clemson did to recruit him only to NOT offer him a scholarship would he ever transfer to that place.
He became a campus hero in Boone and eventually a legend, he liked where he was. Why transfer?
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Big fish, little pond? Fair enough.
So I take it he told you about the scouts face palming themselves when they saw him play his first game?
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Don't be a smart ass.
We went to college together. It’s not like he was hard to see or talk to. When I asked him if he had gotten any invitations to transfer he said that yes, he did. He highlighted Clemson in particular because he had originally been recruited by them as a prep, but not offered a scholarship.
Receiving offers to transfer to a I-A school after your freshman year at a I-AA school is the equivalent of scouts /facepalming themselves.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
You're taking everything far too personally.
I wasn’t being a smart arse. I was asking a legitimate question.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
well it sounded snarky to me, sounded like you were mocking me
If you weren’t then I apologize for my comment.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
And I'm sorry. Your knock on Clausen is that "the Panthers drafted him at QB 'cos that's all he can do'?
Wow. Bearing in mind there’s like 10 worthwhile QBs in the NFL right now, that’s a strange statement.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
You're spinning my words out of context into something they're not.
And terribly I might add. The actual context of that comment is this…
Point is, the Panthers drafted Armanti to be a WR because his size and athleticism demand it. They drafted Pickles to be a QB, because, well, he is good at it and can’t really be anything else.
How is that a knock on him? I just said that he is GOOD at what he does, after saying that Armanti is a good QB but not an ideal fit for the NFL. Do you dispute that Clausen could be anything in this league besides a QB? Armanti is a developing WR who also happens to have a good arm that will serve him well in plays outside the pocket in space where he is a threat to run or throw or catch.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Ok. How about:
The Panthers drafted Clausen at QB because he’s got the tools to be an NFL QB.
The Panthers drafted Edwards at WR because he lacks the tools to be an NFL QB, but he has the athleticism of a WR.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Essentially what I have been saying all along
Keep in mind I’m not one of the ones calling for him to be our QB.
The only addendum I would make is this…
“The Panthers drafted Clausen at QB because he’s got the tools to be an NFL QB.”
“The Panthers drafted Edwards at WR because he lacks the SIZE and knowledge of a pro offense to be an NFL QB, but has the athleticism to be a WR who can hurt you more ways than just catching the ball.”
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
You know..
I’m not quite ready to throw in the towel yet. There’s a lot that I could be pessimistic about but there’s also a lot that I could be optimistic about.
There are two things that I am very concerned about..
1) Quarterback play.
2) Offensive line play.
Out of those two, the QB play is my main concern. It’s starting to look like we live by our QB and thus we will die by our QB if Clausen isn’t the answer (though, I hold onto belief that he is or, at least, will be). If Clausen plays well, I think we’ll see better results from our offensive line for numerous reasons.
On the optimistic side of things, I’m excited for…
Greg Hardy: Yes, he made his share of rookie mistakes. That’s why I think he needs to be on the field more often, to learn from those mistakes and get needed experience sooner rather than later.
David Gettis: An accurate QB would do wonders for this guy and he’s still raw as can be. I hope he shows that he can catch when the ball is actually in his area on top of that 4.3 speed.
Eric Norwood: I’m hoping he sees a bit more time at DE. He’s currently listed as the third stringer behind Johnson and Hardy. His time at LB is definitely limited by his lack of coverage. Give me an experienced Hardy and Norwood on the ends and I’m sold. Maybe we can start calling them Hard Wood? I kid.
Armanti Edwards: I know there is much debate as to what he is doing and what he should be doing but I choose to not even consider that. He’s our WR. If anyone on our roster is to one day fill the spot Steve Smith currently holds, I’m putting my money on Edwards. The little guy that plays bigger than most could wish to be.) among others.
Mike Goodson: Showing us a little of what we expected when we drafted him, eh? Another year and perhaps he’ll actually be able to run the ball as well. I don’t care, though, just keep hitting him with whatever works and run with it. Look at Goodson’s improvement and imagine how these other guys are going to look in a year? PS. He hasn’t fumbled yet this year, either. Hope I’m not jinxing him.
Jonathan Stewart: Williams hasn’t looked up to par yet this season. I blame the offensive line for that but Stewart has been powering his way through for decent yardage anyways. Neither back has had it easy but Stewart is proving that he can still come through when things aren’t going too well. Well, that is, if we actually give him the ball.
Defensively we didn’t get blown out against Tampa Bay and we didn’t really get blown out against the Gaints. If we get accurate QB play (accurate, not astounding, just put the ball where it needs to be, don’t force it, and avoid turning it over) and don’t give up 8 turn overs offensively in the next two weeks, I don’t see any reason why we can’t be competitive. The icing on the cake here would have to be pressure. If we can generate pressure on opposing QB’s, I’ll give us as good a chance to win as any team on any given Sunday, regardless of what has happened these last two weeks. We have learned a lot from these two beatdowns losses, now we just have to hope they can get it together and benefit from that knowledge.
I will enter the Bengals game with no expectations and give the Panthers a chance to prove that they’re not as bad as these first two games have lead us to believe. I don’t think we will win a Super Bowl this year but, really, when was that ever more than a bunch of fans hopes and dreams? I do, however, believe that we have a lot of young potential that is going to develop into amazing talent over the next few years. We have put ourselves on the path to be great, now we just have to survive the mountain climb to get there.
This rant/observation was brought to you by…
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
by D-Ranged1 on Sep 21, 2010 1:17 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Re Eric Norwood:
He would’ve made a strong case for more playing time, had he made that tackle on the QB at 8:30, Q2.
This was the play that lost us the game.
The score was tied, 7-7, as the Moore to Smith TD pass had just tied it, and Rhys Lloyd had had a TB on the ensuing KO. They started on their 20 and gained a FD at their 32. Then we had 2 straight TFL (Tackles For Loss), the first a great hit by Dan Connor, then the best interior DL play we got all game, from Derek Landri and Nick Hayden. This set them back to their 25, 3rd and 17. As Freeman dropped back to pass, Charles Johnson had a perfect shot at a sack, which would’ve forced them to punt from deep in their territory, giving us all the momentum, and giving our defense 3 loss plays in a row, and a lot of confidence (and a taste of being sacked wouldn’t have conversely given Freeman so much bravado as he actually got.) But Johnson let Freeman out of his grasp.
No problem. Norwood now had his big chance to shine.
How many of you are aware that we had a unique pass rushing alignment in for that 3and17? It was Norwood lined up at LDE, Johnson and Greg Hardy at DTs, and Everette Brown at RDE! That’s why we got such good penetration. These are all our stud pass rushers, with both the DTs really DEs.
But Norwood, with Freeman in his sights, and a perfect angle to take him down, fell for the feint, and Freeman eluded him, too, wound up and fired a strike to TE Winslow, downfield, for a long FD, and the very next play, another crossing pattern was caught among no less than 5 Panther defenders (talk about a QB throwing it in traffic!), 3 of whom blew good opportunities to tackle (Gamble, Godfrey and somebody else), and it went for a TD and a deficit that we never recovered from. Those 2 consecutive pass plays went for 73 yds and a TD that never should’ve happened.
Look at all the consequences of that missed open field tackle by Norwood:
1) We’d have had the ball back in good field position, the score tied, and all the momentum.
2) Freeman would’ve just been sacked, and not been as confident thereafter.
3) Had we subsequently used our new momentum to go in for another score, before the half, we may not have destroyed the confidence of Matt Moore, and we may have won the game. Remember they never scored another TD all game.
Hope Norwood does better in the future. Strange how just one missed tackle, by a guy who’s supposedly renowned for it, could so strongly affect the outcome of a game.
by bigdavis on Sep 21, 2010 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Here's what I imagine Eric Norwood was thinking, in the approximately 2 seconds, just before his career went back to the bench:
Ha! Got me some QB now! He’s 3 yards right in front of me. Thank you, Charles Johnson, for whiffing on the tackle, and leaving the sack all for me! Highlights, here I come!
Wait! Who’s this with the ball? This ain’t no QB! This guy’s bigger than I am!
(Norwood’s 6’1", 241, Freeman goes 6’6", 248.)
Gotta get him around the legs! … oof … dang …missed him! … where’d he go?
Haha!
Great recap. He definitely needs his time to adjust but I expect great things from Norwood. I had no idea we had the four of them in. That’s awesome. I had to go look up the highlight just to see it again, paying closer attention this time. A little work on taking down behemoths and I love it. Gotta admit, I’m utterly surprised that of those 4, Johnson was the first to the QB.
The more I watch it, and I may just be damn stupid, it looks as though Hardy is being held by Faine. The angle and quality of the video I’m watching is bad (internet is running slow) but he appears to damn near fall over once released.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
The quality of my video is HD, 60", and he was held.
But such is the way of the world, that small things change men’s lives.
I’ve said many times that Brett Favre wouldn’t have gotten his first start when he did, has it not been for an injury to the Packers’ QB at the time.
Maybe Norwood’s missed tackle will have far reaching implications for Clausen, and/or Moore. Time will tell.
Notice I don’t blame Johnson so much as Norwood for the blown sack – Johnson was careening at the QB, and in less control of his body, than was Norwood, who had squared up, with a clean shot. It’s his life’s work to bring down a shifty RB in that situation, much less a QB.
So, in a very narrow, but exact sense, I put the loss of the game on Norwood, more than on Moore, or the OL, or the WRs for their drops, or the DBs for their errors…one little open-field tackle would’ve meant so much…
Interesting way to look at it..
But couldn’t we also say the referee that didn’t call the hold was responsible for our loss? I definitely think there was a lot more at play than one missed tackle. It definitely contributed but it was just a small piece in a large puzzle, imo.
I’m thinking Norwood most definitely makes up for it on November 14th. He’s green to the NFL like a lot of our guys.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
No, a holding call would have given them a repeat of 3rd down, and it's way too much speculation, even for me, to say for a surety that would have worked out one way or another.
But had the tackle been made by Norwood for the sack, it’s sure that they would have had to punt from back around their 15.
And it’s equally, and more importantly, a surety, that they wouldn’t have scored their 2nd TD on the next play, because that play would have been ours.
Am I?
Sure I’m speculating, but that’s what we do around here, isn’t it?
If they’re forced to punt, from around their 15, we start the next series around our 45, even without a return. It’s not a “reach” to figure we’d be able to put up a go-ahead score of some kind, whether to 14-7, or 10-7, what with the momentum we’d enjoy, after scoring a TD last series and them being back on their heels. And a sack by our D would have fired them up and conversely dampened Freeman’s confidence.
Or do you refer to my comment about Moore?
Remember they never scored another TD, only 2 FGs. Not a stretch to think we’d win the game, with Big Mo being the powerful factor he is in home games. Then if that were to happen, it’s doubtful Moore gets pulled, or benched, and the Panthers are 1-1 right now.
Or an end-zone INT.
But I see what you’re saying. It’s a shame we’ll never get to know the truth.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
Care to refute my assumptions, then?
1) that the sack would have given us the ball at or around our 45, with the score tied, and us gaining momentum from having scored a TD last drive, and our D sending them minus yds on 3 plays in a row?
2) that they would have NOT scored their second TD on the very next play (they wouldn’t have had the ball)
3) that, then, had we gone on to score even a FG (you can’t say that’s impossible, though you can make some snarky comment that Moore might have thrown a pick into the EZ), we’d have then had the lead.
4) that, finally, had those things happened, the game might well have been ours (they never scored another TD thereafter, remember) — and if that were the case, Moore is a game-winner, and not a bench-warmer? And we’re 1-1, not 0-2?
I’ve never said these things were certainties. Just that they’d have been likely outcomes, had Norwood (or Johnson) made that tackle. It’s not “terrible hyperbole,” just because it might theoretically have prevented your boy Clausen from a start this week. I was saying only that a whole game can sometimes hinge on one play, and not even a scoring play.
Not AS confident, then...how's that?
And possessed of one less TD throw, that’s for sure.
+1 for the rant ... +10000 for the Irish Red
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
A QB that's able to read the D pre-snap and get the ball out of his hands quickly will soon make his O-line look like world beaters.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
It will certainly help prevent a few sacks, that's for sure.
But most of the 8 sacks that Moore has had, happened so fast, through a whiff by an OLman, that he had 2 or fewer seconds from the snap.
I truly hope that Clausen will react faster, but from what I’ve seen of him thus far, he seems to spend a lot of time scrambling around, before finally avoiding a sack by tossing it OOB. When I see him hit his hot reads consistently, I’ll be whooping and hollering with the rest of you. Until then, I’ll mostly be praying for Otah to get his big ass back out there, and MacBern to take a seat..
Big Ben managed to do it
So maybe, maybe the Jimmy and the Panthers can do it too. And he was QB at Notre Dame so hes about as prepared to play in the pros as any rookie QB can be.
"Tough time come and go, but tough guys last forever" - Wayne Bennett
I don't think the Notre Dame pedigre means much personally...
It’s the individual qualities he possesses that are important here.
The ND pedigree is all about the national stage
They’re on it, deserved or not. It doesn’t show skill, it shows the ability to deal with pressure. And Clausen did well in the limelight.
He's had the national media in his face for three years.
The big thing about his college days though, and I’ve said it time and time again, is that he ran a pro offence without an offensive line. The ND offence (and team!) was basically five people: Clausen, Weis, Rudolph, Tate, and Floyd. Everyone else was a passenger.
For him to put up such gaudy numbers in that situation to me suggests that he’s going to be special.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Too early to give up on the season............
As I posted last week, it would have been better to start Clausen last week against TB with a full week to prepare. Cincy has a good defense which will make it difficult for a first game. But the move had to be made and I think Clausen will start from now on and Moore will only get in if there’s an injury.
I'm not feeling the rebuilding theme just yet
Ask me again if/when we lose the next 2 out of 3 games.
Until mathematically eliminated, I'm thinking Super Bowl.
The power of that mysterious 5th dimensional like force called momentum should not be underestimated. The Panthers just need a few breaks to get the ball rolling back in their direction.
Jaxon, a couple of pertinent questions
Moose is 37 and had clearly lost both a step and some hand strength last year. Who are you going to cut to see if he has anything left in the tank?
When was the last time Hoover had made it 16 games? Hasn’t he been deteriorating steadily over the last few years?
What good is a star WR free agent if your QB can’t throw him the ball?
How bad will an offensive line look when the QB doesn’t step up into the pocket?
How long should an NFL Quarterback take to release the ball?
How is it that a player in his contract year expected to excel, but a coach is expected to just mail it in?
Aside from Peppers, who was an undeniable talent, who was lost that represents an honest upgrade over what we have? (I can make an argument for Harris, but not from a talent standpoint)
If the new CBA results in a lower cap, what teams out there are better positioned than the Panthers to non only re-sign their expensive free agents (Kalil, Williams, Davis), but to perhaps play the market for those caught in a numbers game?
I think the answers to those questions may cast the current season in a better light. BTW, how are the Cowboys and Vikings doing?
Wow isn't this role reversal?
Me the Hater and you the Homer? ;)
If I was to play devils advocate:
I think Moose and Hoover could have helped us with these two games. Agree the o-line has played bad but Moore hasn’t helped himself with limited pocket awareness and indecision. I think Kemo would help us up front, at least until he got hurt.
The Fox situation is all about confidence…I’m not saying he’s mailing it in but you would Fox has been around long enough and done enough to warrant an extension. He’’s two seasons removed from 12-4 and doesn’t have a QB. If JR has lost confidence then he should have canned him in Feb….just my opinion since its now turning into a distraction, or seems to be anyway.
What does it matter what the cap is when it comes to your marque players? You won’t get either one cheaper than you would right now.
For what it's worth:
I would cut Dwayne Jarrett for Muhammad in a heartbeat.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I would cut DJ for Muhammad Ali at this point...
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Don't you mean...
I would cut Dwayne Jarrett for Muhammad in 2008 or earlier in a heartbeat.
James, I swear you just type too fast. So fast that you forgot a few critical words… ;)
I don’t see how Moose could help us, honestly. I wouldn’t even give up Jarrett for him right now. I love the guy, but he’s better seen on the screen than on the field.
lol
Last time I checked Moose still gave us 514 yards last year. Unless you think Jarrett can give you more then why not? He’s in the final year of his contract anyway
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Fun Fact, and yet another reason why I'm optimistic:
Most would agree that last year our defense looked good, and thus far in 2010 our defense looks extremely lackluster.
However, when you break it down the defense is actually performing better than 2009!
In 2009 our opponents averaged 29:47 time of possession and 316 total yards
In 2010 our opponents are averaging 32:44 time of possession and 324.5 yards
Simple put:
- In 2009 our defense allowed 10.6 yards per minute of opponent possession
- In 2010 our defense is allowing 9.9 yards per minute of opponent possession
Now look at offense:
- In 2009 we averaged 11 yards of offense per minute of possession
- In 2010 we are averaging 9.5 yards of offense per minute of possession
The moral of this story: There is nothing wrong with the defense. The offense steps up and we win games, it’s as simple as that
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
It's also pertinent with the offense to break down the two QBs
Yes, so Clausen was running the hurry up offense which makes it easier for the offense to move… but regardless:
- Offense with Moore in 2010: 48 minutes, 04 seconds – 441 yards offense (9.2 yards per minute of possession)
- Offense with Clausen in 2010: 6 minutes, 28 seconds- 69 yards offense (10.7 yards per minute of possession)
If Clausen is able to keep up the same pace the offense as a whole is better per minute of possession than in 2009, like I said hurry up offense has a lot to do with it… but still, something to be optimistic for!
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Talk about extrapolation.
Why not pick out Moore’s last 0:33 of the first half, vs the Giants?
4 pass completions, a TD pass, and 50 yds gained, in 0:33. What’s that extrapolate to: about 2,727 yds for 30 minutes of offensive minutes a game, or 90.9 yds a minute? That was Moore’s hurry up offense production, the only time he got to run it.
You see how small sample sizes can skew extrapolated “results”?
Just being optimistic about the QB we have, not the guy riding the pine
Nothing more, nothing less…
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
There is nothing wrong with the defense. The offense steps up and we win games, it’s as simple as that
This should be printed on a banner and put up at the stadium.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
+100000
I can deal with giving up 20 points … Freeman is better than a lot of people realize, and like many have said on here: we struggle with mobile QB’s.
But to only score one freaking touchdown against a defense that is made up of rookies and guys who should be in a nursing home (yes Ronde, that was a stab at you) — it’s downright pathetic.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
There's a reason... it's just painfully obvious
- 2nd quarter Moore gets sacked for -5 taking us out of FG range (3 points)
- 4th quarter Moore fumbled at the Tampa 32 (minimum 3 points)
- 4th quarter run Goodson twice inside the 4 yard line (should be 7 points with Williams or Stewart)
Three simple, easily correctable mistakes that resulted in a 13 point swing.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I'm starting to wonder if Stewie is hurt more than they're letting on...
I can understand the theory that they are giving Goodson reps in case D-Will doesn’t re-sign … but for the life of me I can’t understand why they didn’t run Stewie before 4th and goal on that last drive. That should have been a touchdown — it probably would have only meant we lost 20-14, but still — Stewie should have carried the ball on 2nd and 3rd down, and most likely there wouldn’t have even been a 4th down.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
And take 7 off their score, if Norwood or Johnson make a simple tackle, for a sack.
It’s all candy and nuts, though.
I think the D is missing an elite DT and a competent FS. Otherwise it's pretty solid.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Richard Marshall seems to be struggling
penalties, holds, getting burned… maybe a better nickel option
The problem with the DBs is not the talent
It’s the lack of consistent pressure up front. We’re getting some pressure on the QB, but it’s not on every play. A few extra hurries and/or sacks the DBs numbers will improve considerable. Look at last year, they got burned quite a bit early in the season, but as the front 7 got more pressure the DBs were getting more INTs.
What stings for me as a Panther fan...
the national pundits were correct on their earlier analysis of the team based on the performance thus far. The Panthers are not that good and Jimmy Claussen would start before the season is over. Check and check. However, they could get it together and become competitive which is all we can hope for at this point.
Don't worry too much
Peter King admitted he was wrong on Matt Moore being good, which corrects the universe and will allow us to move forward.
To that same end, King admitted he was wrong about Tampa Bay being bad, which rules of the universe dictate they will now lose 14 straight.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 21, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
You learn more in a loss
so by the end of this year we are either gonna be really smart or make the playoffs.
Win-win! Hooray!
In all seriousness, I have perhaps higher hopes with Clausen at the helm. Matty Nice was a nice guy, but he was still a UDFA. Clausen starting represents the first time in a long time the Panthers are gonna have some “top shelf” talent at QB, which makes me giddy.
But, I have to make sure to remind myself raw talent does not a successful NFL career make.
by GoodOl'NorthState on Sep 21, 2010 10:37 AM EDT reply actions
Jaxon, what do you mean optimistic to pessimistic?
I haven’t changed my position at all? ;)
One good thing about not having high expectations this offseason is that I’m more content with our horrible play than in years past. I never expected us to be a playoff contender, so just being able to watch Clausen play is fun for me.
Considering our offseason moves, I’m just surprised expectations were so high to begin with. My 9-7 prediction was probably too optimistic, and that was the lowest of the group.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 21, 2010 10:48 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think the wheels get put back on this thing
I predicted 11-5 based on the schedule, and that has changed slightly after the first two weeks. Based on who we have left I think the Panthers can absolutely finish 9-7.
The way the NFC South goes who knows? The Saints are without Reggie Bush and two NFC Powerhouses are 0-2 in Dallas and Minnesota which makes the wildcard more attainable.
I still believe
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 21, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I still think we can go 11-5
We always lose a game we should have won (e.g. – Buffalo last year), and we usually end up winning a game we should have lost.
We’ve already lost to Tampa….
Surely we can catch one of the premier teams on a bad day and steal one, then we’re right back on track for a playoff run.
Perhaps I’m overly optimistic, but I won’t give up my 11-5 belief until we’ve lost our 6th game, then my prediction changes to 10-6.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
11-5? 10-6?
Only if Mike Vick was our QB. By the way, Vick turned out to be a terrible QB after all huh James?
You can quote that!!!!
by Da Kid Long on Sep 21, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah... one game converted me that's for sure... he's dynamic now!
Dynamically riding the pine for Kevin Kolb again
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 21, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
And who did Vick barely beat again?
That’s right … Detroit. One of the worst defenses in the league.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Still hating huh?
Vick scored 17 in a half in Philly’s first defeat and put up huge numbers against detroit in their stadium. And they “barely” won b/c of their defense getting torched. We just lost to Tampa ta home.
Get off your high-horse and admit you was wrong about Vick.
You can quote that!!!!
by Da Kid Long on Sep 21, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Again, how is putting up huge numbers on Detroit hard?
Also, your second paragraph should be “admit you were wrong.”
by SlayerGhaleon on Sep 21, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Look up some information on the west coast offense’s (the spread of the NFL) effect on inflating QB passing statistics and we can try this discussion again.
As it stands the only time Vick has ever been close to good is when he’s in a WCO, which we don’t run.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 21, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure Vick was better when he WASN'T running the WCO.
He’s like Pryor – he struggles in the short/intermediate game. Spread it out, run deep routes, have a TE as a safety valve and let him run.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Philly run the WCO now, and Atlanta ran it in 2004, 2005 and 2006 under Jim Mora when Vick passed for his most yards, touchdowns and had his best QB rating.
Ultimately, I don’t see a point in talking about Philadelphia’s QB, a team we don’t even play in 2010, and you can show Michael Vick fans every piece of quantitative data that shows why he’s a bad QB and still they’ll defend him with nonsensical ramblings.
I’m sure you’d agree Oldham that we’re much better off with Clausen than Michael Vick.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 21, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Bearing in mind I love Clausen? Yes.
The only way I’d want Vick is if he was a rookie and we were willing to design the offence around him. Otherwise he’s more trouble than he’s worth – every unconventional QB is (cos once they get injured you’re screwed trying to get the O to work with a conventional backup).
I know the Falcons switched to a WCO because mobile QBs are meant to be better in that system – but Vick’s best attributes never suited it. As you’ve said previously, the QB rating system is basically tosh. Vick would win more games in a system suited around his talents (which I stated earlier).
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Two things...
1. I don’t have a high-horse … he quit smoking 3 years ago.
2. It’s not hating on Vick. It’s telling it like it is. Detroit is one of the worst defenses in the league — barely beating them doesn’t convince me that we should have signed him.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Hateraide
1. If you want to tell it like it is, Vick is by far a better QB right now than Clausen, Moore, Pike, Cantwell, and you can throw Armanti in there as well.
2. Again, Vick beat Detroit in Detroit. We put up 7 at home against Tampa Bay
3. They have a legit QB controversy in Philly with Kolb/Vick. They drafted Kolb early in the draft and even got rid of Donovan for him. Yet still, a lot of people and a lot of the players want Vick to start. I guess they think Vick is still pretty terrible.
All of you came on here and blasted Mike Vick saying he was an awful QB and he sucks. Well man up and say you were wrong, just like when you said Matt Moore was better (and that’s specifically to you James).
P.S – I’m not here just to hate on Panther fans b/c I am one too and I want to see our team do well. However, I do like Vick and I don’t like people who hate on him unjustifiably.
You can quote that!!!!
by Da Kid Long on Sep 21, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
By far?
I wouldn’t say that.
Vick’s having himself a nice little career resurgence, but he’s still not someone I’d take over Clausen. Obviously I’d take him over Moore, Pike or Cantwell, but that’s because he’s infinitely more talented than those guys.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Through two weeks the NFL’s leading rusher is Arian Foster and Kyle Orton is the 6th best passer in the NFL.
Does that mean Foster is the best RB in the NFL, or Orton is a better QB than Drew Brees?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 21, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody is talking about Foster or Orton, I’m talking about Vick and Carolina QB’s. Why don’t you compare them through the first two weeks?
You can quote that!!!!
by Da Kid Long on Sep 21, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Why don’t we have this discussion after 16 weeks?
Until then I have no interest in Michael Vick’s latest flash in the pan performance. I’d rather talk about the Carolina Panthers.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 21, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d rather people admit when they’re wrong, but you can have it your way
You can quote that!!!!
by Da Kid Long on Sep 21, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
And I'd rather people base arguments of facts (curious dodge of the West Coast Offense by the way, I liked that)
Nothing to admit.
Let’s worry about Vick earning the starting job on his own team before we start to consider the fictitious scenario where Michael Vick can learn to be decent outside of a QB friendly offense and play in Carolina.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 21, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think you're getting his point at all...
Anyone can have a nice little run (e.g. Moore) for whatever reason. If you want to say someone is a good player, then they have to maintain that performance over an extended period of time. That’s why he brought up Orton etc.
Precisely
I’m not one to believe that two good games in a West Coast offense provide more credence than 6 full NFL season of mediocre completion percentages, bad TD/INT ratios and bad QB ratings.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I will say I am wrong when it is proven that I am wrong.
Of course Vick will be better than a rookie, a UDFA, a 6th round pick, and a guy who is converting to WR. Apples to oranges.
Beating Detroit in Detroit is about as great of an accomplishment as being the skinniest kid at fat camp …. big deal.
Philly is different from any other city in the NFL. They will always have a legit QB controversy because most fans in Philly don’t know what they want from week to week. Keep in mind this is the same fanbase that booed McNabb on draft day because they wanted Ricky Williams, and we see who has had the better career. (If you don’t believe me, ask my fellow Philly convert paydirt16 about that one.)
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
by BW Smith on Sep 21, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1 and rec'd
I couldn’t have said it any better Re: Vick
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
+1
100% accurate on Philly fans also.
Even the Mayor (Ed Rendell) publicly blasted the Eagles for selecting MacNabb over Williams at the time.
Philly fans are the most petulant in the nation…to a point where its actually comical.
Phillies great Mike Schmidt once said Philadelphia is the only city in the country where you experience the thrill of victory on one day and then the agony of reading about it the next.
the sad thing is that it's the truth...
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
However, I do like Vick and I don’t like people who hate on him unjustifiably.
You are certainly free to your opinion on Vick, but I don’t hate him unjustifiably.
Anyone who runs a gambling ring based on the horrendous treatment of dogs to make profit from their pain and suffering, only to kill them by means of drowning and/or electrocution for under-performing has more than justified the cause for my hatred. What Vick did was sick, disgusting, and cruel, and I don’t care if he is “reformed” — it doesn’t change the fact of what he did to those animals for profit.
I hate him for that, and I feel that I have every right to do so, just as you have every right to like him and think he’s a good QB.
I disagree with you about his QB ability — I will not discuss Vick any further until you can give me concrete evidence that I should change my opinion.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Who are you to judge anyone?
The guy did his due and paid his debt to society. I guess you hate anyone who was in jail and served time. That’s your opinion so you can have it. Anyway, I was honestly having a discussion with James about football, and not the dog ring crap.
So please let two grown men talk before you and your other little friends want to kiss up to your daddy James.
You can quote that!!!!
Nice ad hominem ... it really shows your character.
I have every right to hate Vick for what he did, just like you have every right not to. And no, I don’t hate everyone who was ever in jail and served time … that generalization is pointless and really doesn’t add any value to your ridiculous argument.
I won’t even respond to your “grown men” comment, because by the actions you’ve just displayed, you certainly don’t fit that bill.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Is James is my Daddy too????
If so my mom’s lawyer wants to talk, to the tune of missed child support.
by adamwanderer on Sep 22, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry it's just tough
to take someone seriously when thy say “let two grown men talk” when your username is “Da Kid Long.” As an objective bystander, it doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in your physical maturity.
by adamwanderer on Sep 22, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
mmmm Haterade
I like Tempestuous Grape and Hubris Orange best.
by adamwanderer on Sep 21, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Gatorade, Powerade, Haterade... all pale in comparison to...
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 21, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
RELEASE THE GHERKIN!!!
I’ve been totally using that all week btw. :-)
by adamwanderer on Sep 21, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Do we need visual evidence?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 21, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sooooo glad Bush is out.
He’s an absolute nightmare coming out of the backfield.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
+1
I hate to see any player get hurt. But it is quite the relief not to have to face him.
by adamwanderer on Sep 21, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
No blame on charles godfrey?
the guy has blown more coverages or been late coming over more times than not so far this year. he has been awful as the FS in the secondary. I’m starting to lose patience with godfrey…(btw….wtf was that attempted tackle last week against ahmad bradshaw when he just stood there flat footed as the last line of defense. Bradshaw blew by him and richard marshall luckily busted ass down the field and tackled him at the 1.)
by SouthernPanther on Sep 21, 2010 11:13 AM EDT reply actions
oh yeah...he was also the one who picked up kellen winslow down field on the 3rd and 17 completion...
of course he was out of position to make the play
by SouthernPanther on Sep 21, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Godfrey hasn't been great...
But in his defense he’s been asked to go things outside of his skill set.
The reason we traded Harris was to allow for a faster, more pass coverage minded set of safeties who we knew would be weaker tacklers, but better at playing the ball in the air.
Despite moving to SS, a position he isn’t wholly familiar with and asking him to take on a foreign role he’s still 6th on the team in tackles. I know it’s easy to say ‘he should have done X, or Y’ but I think his personal failings need to be in part attributed to the defenses issues as a whole.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 21, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
In the Tampa 2 though
the FS and SS are really the same thing. I’m okay with letting Harris go. But I’d like for us to look into a better safety in the future. He been hardly serviceable the 3 years he’s been here. More often than not, it was Godfrey getting beat deep or missing a tackle since he has started at FS (his rookie year…so always). I know we don’ have many options right now…but I feel like he is a pretty obvious hole in our defense…
Granted the pass rush has to be better…but still…he seems to have awful instincts
by SouthernPanther on Sep 21, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
It does not matter what system we run
Without a pass rush, the corners/safeties will get fucked. For the most part, we are seeing that.
Can’t say I disagree
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 21, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Pugh is going to be great
but what’s the point if we give the QB 10 seconds to throw? The pass-rush has not produced results. This is the key.
The DTs don't get much push. I'm still shocked they released Tank.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Made my own troll sense tingle
with that one…
by adamwanderer on Sep 21, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Round is a shape, so most likely yes.
Couldn’t resist. :-)
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Sorry ya'll, but I didn't have those expectations at the get-go....so please don't include me in the 'we' talk
Actually, I was the one insisting that it could be a very mediocre/disappointing season. I was the one telling everyone to be realistic about our passing game and lack of offensive power. I was the one telling people that preseason defensive stats don’t indicate a defensive powerhouse. So please, don’t include me in this ‘we’ talk. I tried to restrain the expectations and optimism, but when I made my points, many rejected them and blasted for them. Many people built this optimism to an almost unreachable point. Although this is natural b/c every team has pre-season optimism, I think the optimism here was a littlle unrealistic.
Now, I’m not saying that the Panthers season is doomed or anything. Not at all. This is only 2 games, and the Panthers can surely recover. As James pointed out, the Panthers of 2009 also started very dismally. However, our team has had and still has many problems to rectify, and no offense to anyone, but I personally think the optimsim here was a little unrealistic…
If just a few of the dropped passes had been caught this season could easily be 2-0 right now, so i dont think the optimism was that far over rated. They just had a few plays that went bad instead of good. While Moore needed to improve some that was to be expected since after all it was only his 9th & 10th games in the nfl. And even with his bad decisions at times, some of the plays that the ball was dropped could have turned the games around. And he could have still improved each week. The ball Smith dropped, like the announcers said, had to be caught for your qb to have confidence. The ball that went through Rosarios hands should have been caught to build confidence in himself & in Moore. I think we had every right to have high hopes for the season and even now i still have hopes of making the playoffs.
Up there in the sky .... it's a bird, it's a plane, it's....
SUPER PICKLE!!!
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
All to the tune of Mighty Mouse
I’m thinking Mighty Mouse fits Smitty best, but I always imagine Hong Kong Phooey for him for some reason…
by adamwanderer on Sep 21, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Sunday could be a trap
Over at Cincy Jungle the fake Cardiac Cats are preening around mocking the Panthers’ coaching staff and already predicting utter and complete meltdown from Clausen and the Panthers.
Remember Ackbar…. remember him
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Not to say it’s not a possibility because it is, but the overconfidence is just really obnoxious.
by SlayerGhaleon on Sep 21, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
It's totally possible, no doubt...
But some self reflexivity would be nice; OUR COACHES ARE DRUNK ON DRAFT DAY?!
Do the Bungles realize who they’ve picked in the first round since 2005?
2005: David Pollack (out of the league)
2006: Jonathan Joseph (Good, but no pro bowl to speak of)
2007: Leon Hall (Again good, but no pro bowl)
2008: Keith Rivers (109 tackles in 2 seasons)
2009: Andre Smith (Reached for, held out and failed)
Notice a trend? No pro bowls.
In the same time frame the Panthers have had 2… so who’s more drunk on draft day?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I give them a pass on Pollack though...
Didn’t he break his neck his rookie year and ended up being unable to play again? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that happened to him…
It doesn’t change your point, I just thought I’d throw that out there…
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
We draft fine enough_However stop the crazy talk already.
Man fair – weather fans, worrying about this franchise moving ? What is going on in Charlotte this is crazy. Panthers are not moving, they are going to be approved for a new stadium in about another five seasons w/ help of Charlotte Gov’t etc… However starting Clausen is really the only way we have a shot to compete. We need a win to calm the waters for some doubters. Now I have stated a couple of things all along and they are listed below.
My statements:
Matt moore was not a starting QB – took alot of crap for that one
4-12 Record: Took alot of S#@! for that but if we win four we shall be lucky
This is a rebuilding year: Upset fans including myself hate to admit this but it is painfully true this season.
Fox/Davidson goners: True and alot agreed !
So that is where I am at regarding this team. Stop paniacing already , Richardson is not going to move this team anytime soon that takes years of lacking attendance, scandals, and more. Carolina Panthers are here to stay for a long time yet and remember we still a young as a franchise as well. Rebuilding years happen and every team has to go through them, unfortunately for us Hurney/Fox/Richardson did it all at once instead of a little at a time which is something they should have started to do after the 2005 season.
Go Clausen you are our only hope not to WIN but to help our offense not look like a monkey F@#@!% a football this Sunday. Hopefully I will see a victory.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Sep 21, 2010 3:54 PM EDT reply actions
You misspelled that...
It’s spelled Ocho Stink-o
I may be disppointed in the team but I’m not throwing in the towel. Somewhere, the lights will come on and the offense will click. Maybe it’s the loss of Otah (which bodes poorly for the season if he doesn’t come back) but the defense is ok… safeties and cornerbacks should improve… receivers should as well. I’m hoping for 14-2 this season.
Damn Yahoo
9/20 K. McKinley, DEN, WR Deceased
B. Leftwich, PIT, QB Signed
T. Brock, SFO, CB Active/prac. squad
D. Briggs, SFO, LB Cut
GSO
A few good points made, and to add...
to your comments, Jaxon, about the empty blue seats. I’m a diehard Panther fan and have been a PSL owner since day 1. Going to a Panthers game is very expensive, and I believe fans, especially in Carolina, don’t have the patience or the money to continue to attend the games. A lot of people are struggling in this economy, including myself, so I cannot afford to attend every home game. A lot of PSL owners sell their tickets, and the ones that do attend choose to leave the game early when the teams’ performance is so bad. I spend on average $400 per home game. I want to support my team, but it’s hard to justify dropping a few hundred dollars when the upper management continues to make poor personnel decisions. I would hate to see this team in similar situation the Hornets were in just a few years ago. This team is really sad.
Chris196
This is reality
We have as much talent today as most teams and a new QB who should be fun to watch mature,pretty unlikely we win it all but until we are mathematically eliminated,I for one prefer not to deal with reality.As a fan of the Eagles till I was 16(about 30 yrs. ago)when I moved to N.C.,I saw lots of disapointments,many more than I’ve had since day one here…We have a bright future and I still believe that future is just around the corner.We (most of us)lived through the 1-15 nitemare and we had far less to be hopefull about…Lets remember what we have…Beason,Stewart,Williams,Gross,Stevie,Otah,Hardy,Gamble,Davis,Brown,Barnidge, Conner,Munnerlyn,Lafell,Rosario,Anderson,Landri,Edwards,Goodson…and a QB whos potential is higher then any in franchise history…Those are some of our warriors and I for one do not expect them to quit..Maybe no Superbowl this year…maybe…but I’ll take this bunch to fight every week,and we will become a great football team before long.PANTHERS Rule!
by Panther Eddie on Sep 22, 2010 12:27 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
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