Panthers Paw Prints: Another Matt Moore Edition
by bmoyer on Sep 15, 2010 12:02 PM EDT
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Good Wednesday afternoon, Carolina Panthers fans. I've needed a couple days to calm down before being able to post family-friendly content for Paw Prints. I also want to publicly apologize for my comment in the game thread. I was not and am not happy that Matt Moore got a concussion. What I meant was that at the time he was playing one of the single worst games I've ever seen by an NFL quarterback. I know a lot of it was the O-Line and the playcalling inside the 10, but wow, just wow. Anyway, the word from the Panthers is that if Matt Moore is healthy, he will start this week against the Bucs. In my personal opinion, I agree with Steve Reed in the WFNZ interview with Mark Packer... The NFL is super conservative and cautious about concussions these days. Jimmy Clausen should be our QB this week. If Matt Moore is on the field against Tampa this Sunday, I don't believe there was an actual concussion. Feel free to flame me, but I really believe that. Here are your links for Wednesday June 15, 2010:
Great Foxism:
If healthy, Moore should start for Carolina Panthers. (CharlotteObserver.com)
Said Fox: "Day-to-day means kind of where we're at today is where we are. And we'll take it day-to-day." Um, right.
Gantt's take:
Moore might be back for Sunday's Bucs-Panthers game. (CharlotteObserver.com)
"I'm ready to go," Clausen said. "Obviously Matt's day-to-day right now, and I'll prepare just like I prepared last week, to be ready to be thrown in there. That's my mentality, how I'm taking it this week. "It's similar stuff, whether I'm in there or Matt's in there or Tony's in there, it really doesn't matter. We've got to run the same offense, and that's our job to learn the offense and go out and execute it."
More after the jump...
Daily Panthers' Audio Update:
Audio Gallery: 9/14 Panthers Update. (Panthers.com)
9/14 Panthers Update
I absolutely loved the play where he came through unblocked, wrapped up Eli and drove him into the ground:
Panthers' youth serves adequately in opener. (CharlotteObserver.com)
LB DAN CONNOR, 3RD SEASON, 24 Middle linebacker had team-high 13 tackles and Panthers' only sack in his first start. Though Connor was out of position a couple of times, he showed why coaches were comfortable moving Jon Beason (10 tackles against the Giants) to weakside linebacker.
I've never thought about it in term of a ranking, but this is probably true. I don't usually think of Big Cat as being one of the most influential owners, but he really is:
SBJ: The most influential people in the NFL. (SportingNews.com)
5. Jerry Richardson, owner, Carolina Panthers Health issues briefly sidelined the "Big Cat," but he’s back in a big way. As co-chair of the league’s labor negotiating committee, Richardson is the top voice among the owners on labor, and it’s no secret he is pushing for a hard line against the players. He works to understand different points of view, but comes at this with a clear midmarket philosophy. He’s extremely respected by his peers — he’s the E.F. Hutton, when he speaks, people listen.
A couple audio clips from WFNZ. The Steve Reed portion was particularly interesting to me:
Primetime: Even Foxy is Confused. (WFNZ.com)
9-14-10 Hour 2- We take your calls on how the Panthers will fair this weekend with the possibilty of Jimmy Clausen being the starting quarterback.Primetime: You’re My Boy Blue… (WFNZ.com)
9-14-10 Hour 1- With Steve Reed from Carolinagrowl.com co-hosting we break down this past weekends game with Big Blue in New York.
The first fantasy-related article I've seen from Panthers.com:
Strickly Panthers: Kasay a fantasy option. (Panthers.com)
Panthers kicker John Kasay tallied 10 points to earn a share of the NFL lead in scoring among kickers. To boot, Kasay's 52-yarder certainly qualified for bonus points in some scoring systems. So is it time to pick up Kasay, a free agent in many leagues, and cut ties with Saints kicker Garrett Hartley or the like? Yes. And no.
I also believe this whole situation was money related. I am glad to have Lloyd back:
Lloyd returns to Panthers to handle kickoffs. (CarolinaGrowl.com)
Lloyd spent two successful seasons with the Panthers, including leading the league in touchbacks in 2008 with 30. Last season, he placed 41-of-72 kickoffs in the end zone, with 21 touchbacks. The Panthers decided against paying him $1.01 million as a restricted free agent this past offseason and let him walk in free agency. He signed with Minnesota, but didn't make the final roster because the Vikings had to keep extra defensive backs due to injuries. Lloyd will make $512,941 over the final 16 weeks of the season.
Fantasy football link of the day:
Abysmal.
2010 Quick Reads: Week 1. (FootballOutsiders.com)
It's hard to get much worse than Moore's final four dropbacks: Interception on the opposition's four-yard line, interception on the opposition's 11-yard line, stripsack, stripsack. Yeesh. Alex Barron didn't even hold four plays in a row.
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He Acting
Rod “He Hate Me” Smart is an actor now. Check the story.
If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
That really says a lot for a Carolina Panther fan..
(Matt Moore) playing one of the single worst games I’ve ever seen by an NFL quarterback
I can think of two games that were definitely worse:
1) Jake Delhomme against AZ in the playoffs.
2) Jake Delhomme against PHI in the 2009 season opener.
At least Matt Moore threw 1nice TD to Smitty to end the 1st half.
If you re-read the quote... he says "one of the..." not "the"
There is a difference…
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Statistically speaking
The Delhomme playoff game was better. Even with all the INTs he posted a QB rating of 39.1
Moore posted a 32.6 on Sunday
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Marginal Statistical difference
But Moore’s 4 turnover season opening loss @ NY is not worse than Jake’s 6 turnover home playoff game loss. Period.
I think we can all agree that all three were ‘one of the worst’
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Jake’s game was defiantly worse but Matt was one of the worst as well throwing 3 picks inside the redzone is just frustrating as hell especially when its the first game of the season and you feel that the turnover machine is behind us. And it rears its ugly head in the opener.
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Delhomme's game against Buffalo last year immediately comes to mind
300+ passing yards, check. 3 drive-killing interceptions to negate any positive gain in the air, check.
And the Jets game last year…
You know what, I’m gonna stop right there and just say I look forward to our starting QB (regardless of whether it’s Moore or Clausen) getting us to .500 this Sunday.
I still think Moore's was worse than Jake's fiascoes UNLESS the concussion occurred earlier in the 3r quarter
Similarly to NYG, ARZ and PHI were bringing the heat to Jake. The difference is Jake’s mistakes came when he was under pressure, or when he was unsuccessfully able to air the ball out and hit targets down field. Jake is an aging QB that had major surgery and lost a step. Moore however should be approaching his prime and not throwing INTs due to a lack of ability.
Moore also made mistakes under pressure, which is understandable, but lobbing balls into a sea of jerseys just seems unfathomable to me. It suggest either he was making really poor decisions from the concussion, he has terrible vision or he just made a flat out stupid mistake that no QB should make. I feel fairly confident he won’t do that again.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Matt Moore did have some flashes.
But those INT’s were all “WTF” moments. Honestly, he threw into windows that were nonexistent. He’s got to learn to read the defense better, sad to say, but yesterday he wasn’t much better than a rookie.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Sep 18, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
It's really looking like Matt Moore will get the start.
Unless the NFL Commissioner puts in a phone call to the Panthers. He was practicing in a limited fashion today.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
I think Matt Moore knows that he's going to be the answer to a trivia question if he doesn't make the start on Sunday.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
this statement seemed harsh
If Matt Moore is on the field against Tampa this Sunday, I don’t believe there was an actual concussion. Feel free to flame me, but I really believe that.
do you believe he was faking that dazed and confused look having to be helped off the field, and the puke…must’ve been fake as well? Not sure what you are getting at with that statement. Are you saying it wasn’t a full blown concussion, just knocked silly?
just curious. The way he kept getting up from all of those other hits, doesn’t lead me to believe he was looking to get out by faking a concussion, if that’s what is being inferred.
Concussions can vary in severity, and maybe you just need to read up some on it to be more familiar:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/concussion/DS00320/DSECTION=symptoms
by toonman on Sep 15, 2010 3:56 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This insinuation by some on here, that Moore’s concussion was either faked by him or made up by Panthers staff, is pretty ridiculous.
For that to be true: Either Moore or the Panthers are lying, or the Panthers staff that diagnosed him is completely inept.
agreed
I don’t believe either Matt or the Panthers would want to put themselves in that place, given the moral high road the team and owner usually like to take. I don’t believe they would play those types of games.
clarify above post
after reading it again, i apologize that it came across kinda snippy, which wasn’t the intent—
trying to see what leads you to believe it wasn’t an actual concussion.
according to article linked above, he exhibited the signs of a concussion, so hopefully you will change your opinion on the matter
Just because one exhibits the signs of a concussion doesn't mean one has a concussion.
It is possible that he just got “knocked silly” and the throwing up was coincidence.
Do I think he suffered a concussion? I do, because I don’t think he would fake that, but you can’t assume that he had a concussion because he looked like he had no idea where he was and he threw up on the sideline.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
We can only speculate
But if Moore didn’t have a concussion I can sort of see Fox yanking him and fabricating a bit in order to stop the bleeding. He was clearly rattled and not thinking straight. Whether Moore made it up, Fox made it up, he really was “knocked silly” or concussed, I can sympathize with the decision.
Live to play another day.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
yes, but...
like most good dr’s do, you follow the trail of symptoms, one: you have probable cause, a football player who took his share of solid hits, and then you line up all of the symptoms in play. All of the symptoms visually displayed a leaning towards that diagnosis. The only thing that hasn’t come out is severity level, which if he was back to practice as noted above, it probably leaned towards a more mild degree. I don’t believe they would announce he suffered a concussion, given how the league stance is, if he truly hadn’t been diagnosed with one. The training they receive is pretty tight, i can’t see them screwing with that pocess. The simplest of acts can bring on a very mild concussion. 2 kids banging heads can do it, now make it guys going at each other at high speed with violent intent, and you can have ground impact as well… It is my understanding, that even knocked silly is a mild concussion…
Why is this concussion stuff now in two topics?
I’m happy to discuss, but no need to have two conversations about the same thing in two places at once.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
this is the first place i saw it...
is there a better discussion i’m missing? that’s always my luck…
I couldn’t find who wrote the comment you originally referred to. We’re having basically the same discussion in the “Matt Moore likely to start” fanshot on the front page. It’s all good, just want to make sure we’re not duplicating too many efforts
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Sorry guys
I guess my comments above are more inflammatory than I thought. I didn’t know this was being discussed elsewhere.
I was really hoping not to see Matt Moore for one reason only...
Because Clausen will actually call audibles to offset the RETARDED play calling of Jeff Davidson
GSO
Yeah i said something similar earlier. Really would of come in handy in the red zone where we had 3 turnovers. Im almost positive we would of came away with some points if Clausen was back there even if it was 3 fg’s. But hey everybody can have a bad game it happens….
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Clausen's duck and throw out of bounds routine
Is better than an INT
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I don't understand the Panthers logic at all.
They didn’t have to draft Jimmy Clausen with their first pick of the draft. Sure, it was great value, but if they truly believed Matt Moore was the answer, they could have drafted in another position of need and signed a veteran free agent to be backup. However, they DID draft Clausen, largely because they were NOT sold on Moore being a viable starter in the NFL no matter what he did at the end of last season. And if the Panthers front office and coaching staff is not sold on Matt Moore after being around him for 3 years and seeing him start last year, then chances are he is a lot worse then many here believe he is.
Jimmy Clausen was projected by MANY scouts and analysts to be a top 10 NFL pick, and many had him as their #2 or #1 QB in the draft. The Panthers did not draft him in order to be their backup QB of the future, they drafted him to be their STARTER of the future.
Jimmy Clausen (a rookie), in many people’s opinions, outplayed Matt Moore in the preseason. Granted, Jimmy was going against backups, and he mainly outplayed Moore because Moore was terrible. But Moore was so terrible, our starting offense didn’t even score a touchdown the ENTIRE preseason. That’s really bad.
Finally, if you were actually watching the first game of the season, you should have seen how terrible Matt Moore performed. Too many here are putting too much blame on the O-Line and Jeff Davidson largely because of some desperate belief that Matt Moore will one day be great. Sure, they both could have done better, but I truly believe that Matt Moore deserves most of the blame for his terrible, and I mean terrible performance. He made awful decisions throughout the game but ESPECIALLY near the end zone. He overthrew and threw inaccurate passes to his receivers like he did in the preseason and throughout his career. And he turned the ball over as much as the guy he was supposed to be an upgrade over. He was putrid.
All that considered, I don’t understand the Panther’s logic to start Matt Moore against Tampa Bay, especially with his health being an issue. I guess they feel he deserves another shot? If you ask me, we gave Jake one too many shots last year, and we missed the playoffs because of it. Why not give Moore the rest he probably needs, and put Clausen in against a much softer opponent, where he has a better opportunity to do well, and build confidence moving forward?
I am willing to bet all I have that Jimmy Clausen will ultimately be a better QB in the NFL than Matt Moore when it’s all said and done. Not even a hesitation. Why not let him find his groove now, and perhaps he can capture the magic that other rookie QB’s have had in the past, taking their teams to playoff runs. He doesn’t need the seasoning that many rawer QB rookies need. Most analysts and scouts agreed that he was the most NFL ready QB to come out in years.
I want to win now. I believe Jimmy is a better QB than Matt now. I believe he will be a top 10 QB in the future. Based on everything I’ve seen from Moore, including this preseason and his play against the Giants, he’s nothing more and will be nothing more than a serviceable backup. The Panthers should be starting Jimmy Clausen against the Bucs in Week 2.
If Mark Sanchize can lead a great D and good running game to the AFC Championship Jimmy Clausen can lead a good D and Great Running game to a Wild Card..All im saying. Id take Clausen over Sanchez and i haven’t even seen Jimmy take a NFL snap. One word confidence. Some guys have it some guys don’t. Jimmy has it coming out his ears lol
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Agreed
Except I thought our Passing D looked pretty bad on Sunday. Something has to be fixed there. Our running game won’t really be great until either A) Jeff Otah comes back healthy, or B) we develop a passing game that at least keeps the defense from loading men in the box, which is what the Giants did against us.
Pretty young secondary going to mess up from time to time. Not to mention Eli went relatively untouched. We had good coverage at times but if the QB can sit in the pocket and wait for it to break down you are bound to get burned. Greg Hardy in the starting line up please!
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Yeah
I was surprised at how little pressure we got against Eli, when we lead the preseason in sacks. Maybe we also need to start throwing in some more blitz packages.
Giants do have one of the better Olines in the league. Our front four most of the time may not be enough. we got young fast guys at all positions. I say every person should have there own blitz package. If every man is a potential blitzer it could open things up
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
We were obviously focused on stopping the run, thinking Eli couldn't beat us...and
he did. Eli was sharp as hell, on the mark even when coverage was there. Two of his picks were receivers’ fault. I think there’s a good Eli and a bad Eli (familiar?), and we ran into the good one.
We did accomplish controlling their vaunted running game.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
"Terrible...terrible...terrible...awful...putrid..."
…and that’s just one paragraph!
Did you ever have a bad day, pancambra?
Did you ever get knocked on your butt, often from behind, with no warning, by 270-300 lb. guys, who were intending to harm you?
Was one of the results that you suffered a mild concussion, and had to vomit, in view of 10’s of thousands of judgmental viewers?
Was all this on the same day that you’d earlier performed a series of tasks that have brought acclaim for many of the workers in your same profession?
Close your eyes, and take just 30 seconds to imagine all those things happening to you, with a guy who wants your job badly starting to give interviews about his stepping in for you, to take it.
Now do you want to repeat yourself?
If so, you’re one hard dude, and maybe a tad too critically judgmental for me.
Yes, I'd love to repeat myself...
You need to understand the difference between a normal profession and an entertainment profession. Sports today, and the NFL in general, is an entertainment industry, and it is completely different than normal professions. You don’t get cut any slack for having bad days, you are judged on your performance. I, myself am an actor in the entertainment industry and I know that me getting work is based solely on my performance. I have known friends who have gotten fired based on bad performances. If I have one “bad day” when a critic watches my performance, than I am written about in papers and articles of being “terrible” or whatever moniker they choose to use. Granted, I don’t have 300 lb. guys trying to harm me while on stage.
Matt Moore is an adult, and he’s in a field where you are only as good as the product you put out on the field, and there are thousands of people waiting to fill your shoes. When he puts out a terrible performance, as he did on Sunday, he should not be treated with kid gloves, and made excuses for by saying he was just having a bad day. He’s paid a lot of money NOT to have have a bad day ONE day out of the week. That’s his job. He sucked at his job on Sunday. So I have no qualms about calling it like it is as a passionate Panther fan, and saying he had a terrible performance.
I personally don’t think he has what it takes to be a starting QB for a legitimate contender in the NFL, or at the very least, one that will need their QB to win them games. It’d be one thing, bigdavis, if he was an established elite QB and had a game like this. If Tom Brady had a game like this, then sure, everyone would cut him some slack. But Matt Moore hasn’t proven anything. He had a couple of meaningless good starts last year, but even his own team didn’t believe he’d be good enough to stick around as a starter for the future, thus why they drafted Clausen.
As a Panthers fan, I am selfish, and I want to watch them win a Super Bowl. I am sick of being a fan of a team who’s QB turns the ball over 5+ times a game. There are many teams who go an entire season without that happening to them once. It’s happened to us numerous times over the last 1.2 seasons. These days, if you want to win a Super Bowl, you need a damn good QB, and in my mind, Jimmy Clausen is the only QB on the roster who has a shot of that. So I say put in Clausen.
If Moore starts against the Bucs and performs great for us, then awesome. I certainly won’t be throwing around adjectives like terrible and putrid. But that doesn’t mean we’re going to the playoffs with Matt. I mean it’s the Bucs for crying out loud. And if we win and he has a mediocre performance, he shouldn’t be given a pass for eeking out a win.
I’m tired of watching opposing defenses stack 8, 9 guys against us to stop the run, and get away with it because of our poor passing attack, and as a Panthers fan, you should be tired of it as well.
by pancanbra on Sep 15, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You are a Passionate Panther Fan, I'll give you that, sir.
Curiously, you mention that you would cut Tom Brady some slack if he turned in a performance like Moore’s. Did you not read the interesting thread by sperk, titled, “Even the Best of Them Have Bad Games”? It detailed for you passionate fans with short memories that Tom Brady, and other great QBs, were not immune to similarly disastrous games. Please re-read it with an open mind.
It is too early in Moore’s career for you to emphatically claim he cannot be a “damn good QB.” You just don’t know that. It is as premature as it would be for me to claim he’ll be in the HOF. It would similarly be as premature as it is for you to have blind faith that Jimmy Clausen will be great. We all know (I assume, that is, that you do, too, and we don’t have to go over that litany of disasters again) that a great college career means little in the NFL. Yet Moore has an 8-3 record as a pro starter, and Clausen is nil-nil. So I have a basis for my support of Moore, and you have 0 basis for yours of Clausen (in terms of NFL service).
When you say, “in my mind, Jimmy Clausen is the only QB on the roster who has a shot of that,” you are right. It is in your mind.
As for Moore, he’s not crying about anything: the beatdown he absorbed, because his OL couldn’ t block UV rays, if they were slathered in SPF45 – he’s not crying about what you or others say about him. He’s a man, and he’s going about his business. I’m not treating him with kid gloves. I said he made bad decisions (he also made several very good ones, in the same game, when he had a semblance of protection, and sensible plays sent in) – I’m merely trying to be the voice of reason against all you “chicken littles” (thanks again, Rick) who equate one loss to a favored team as the end of the season, and call for an untested rookie to replace him.
I have no idea whether you’re an accomplished stage actor, or you do hand commercials, like George Costanza. I don’t care. It’s no comparison to the conditions I set out for you to consider, before you go off in God-like judgment of a young man whose jock strap you couldn’t carry (however, you leave no doubt you’d LOVE to perform that service for your idol, Clausen, who, incidentally, I greatly admire for repeating the 6th grade, so he could better outperform the other little boys he was growing up beside.
Oh, and one ekes out a win. Eek is what Clausen will be saying if the big bad boys on the other side spank him like a little girl. That is the way he runs, away from pressure, you know.
by bigdavis on Sep 16, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you ever watched Clausen play at Notre Dame, you’d know he’s well accustomed to dealing with big bad boys hounding him like a little girl. He was sacked, a lot. I’m sure he’s learned a thing or two on how to deal with the pressure.
Look, I realize Clausen is a rookie, and I know that if he were to play the next 15 games, his stats are going to look like a rookie’s. You’re right, there is a chance he could crash and burn like many other highly touted rookie’s in the league. But I know one thing, he is the closest thing to a franchise caliber QB the Panthers have drafted since Kerry Collins. I also know that having played in a pro style offense that passed a LOT, he is a lot further along in his development than most rookies and I think his preseason performance showed that. Even the uninformed fan could see he was breaking down opposing defenses and calling hot routes and audibles much more than 3rd year Matt Moore.
That 8-3 record can be deceiving. In nearly all of those wins, Matt was afforded the luxury of good defensive play and a dominant rushing attack that allowed him to be who he is: a game manager. Matt Moore will never be anything more than that, and that opinion is based not just on stats, but on just watching him play. I’ve seen elite QB’s have bad games, but I’ve never seen them misthrow and make as many bad judgments as Matt made against the Giants. Because of Eli destroying our secondary and making Captain Munnerlyn and Richard Marshall look like scrubs out there, Matt was in a position where he had to win the game with his arm. And we all saw what happens to the Panthers when they’re in that position.
Clausen has had to win games with his arm on an awful team his entire college career. I’m not saying he’s gonna step in and be a messiah, but I’d like to see what the kid can do in a real game. When I said he is the only QB on the roster that has a shot of being a damn good QB, I was referring to his upside. We’ve seen Matt’s ceiling. He’s reached it. If that wasn’t the case, the Panthers wouldn’t have drafted Jimmy in the first place. Clausen has a much higher ceiling, and has the potential to be great. We’ve seen Matt Ryan turn a team around and make them playoff caliber, I’d just like to see if Jimmy can do the same thing.
I’m not even really a Jimmy Clausen or Notre Dame fan. I just seem to be one of the few fans on here who can see with unclouded vision the actual caliber of QB that Matt really is, and it’s nothing more than an elite backup QB, a mediocre starter. As a Panther fan, and one who sees the trend of needing an elite QB to win in this league, I want more for my team.
by pancanbra on Sep 17, 2010 7:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sir, you just summed up my reservations of Moore, and my view on Clausen perfectly.
I think that post needs to be turned green. Rec’d.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Sep 18, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Couldn't have said it better myself
Fourth and inches is the distance between obscurity and immortality.
Clausen did split reps with Moore
Today in Practice Jimmy Clausen did split 1st team reps with Matt Moore. So who plays sunday is anybodys guess more then likely we will not know until game time. thats how john fox likes it.
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
id be hoping for Moore at this point if i was the Bucs. Clausen is kind of a wild card at this point. Not a lot of film on him that would be worth breaking down and Moore got rocked pretty good last week.
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Sep 15, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If i was TB i would too
But if Moore does start, i sure the hell hope he doesn’t get rocked or turn it over as much as he did last week! Both were extremely painful to watch, i don’t think i can handle a repeat against the Bucs to go 0-2.
I don't agree with that.
He played on national tv every week. He was a highly touted draft pick (before his fall from grace). There’s LOTS of film on Clausen.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
No NFL film…better? I mean im sure they would sniff some Notre Dame tape but it isn’t exactly the same. You do not know his tendinitises in the NFL
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Sure they won't know his NFL tendencies, but they know what kind of QB he is.
His strengths. His weaknesses.
They’d look at his ND game footage and his pre-season film. If they’re up to scratch they’ll have a pretty good idea what he’s all about.
Which of course is bringing the awesome, so it wouldn’t matter. =P
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Here's what bothers me...
If Moore starts and gets another concussion, then we have a major problem on our hands. One concussion is bad enough. One in back to back weeks would be devastating. I just don’t see the reward (playing Moore) being worth the very real risk of this situation. Not when we have someone who can realistically get us through a weak match up in Clausen.
Let’s face it… Most of us here think we will win this weekend regardless of whether Moore or Clausen starts, so what possible reason could you have to endanger Moore by starting him?
QB Controversy
ive racked my brain on this and the only thing that keeps coming back to me is avoiding a media shit storm if Clausen lights up the field. Philadelphia is on the verge of a HUGE QB controversy. Vick is a well established QB in the league but he is still the back up. He did very well against the Packers and i have no doubt he will do well against the Lions. In a town as rowdy as Philly they are treading deadly waters. Similar circumstances could take place in Carolina if Clausen hits the field wins and Matt Moore comes back in the following week and struggles.
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Any coach that allows the media to dictate what they do is a failure.
I’m sorry that is just not acceptable. You don’t make NFL decisions based on what the media will or will not say. You make your decisions based on what is best for your team and your players.
I didn’t say it would effect his decision but you avoid a media storm like that at all cost. It does nothing for your football team if every day every question your asked who’s your starting QB and why? Plus you don’t think it would split the locker room if Clausen comes in and we score a TD..more then once. I wouldn’t be surprised if some guys already favor him over Moore.
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Sep 16, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
You're contradicting yourself.
Avoiding a media storm, in this situation, would be something that directly effects his decision.
Whose more to blame for our lack of passing game?
Our QB? Or WRs that are unable to compliment Smitty?
Here’s another way to look at this… Drew Breez in SD played really well with some WRs that did nothing once they went elsewhere. He makes even 7th round picks into star recievers.
Also guys like Breez, Manning and Brady are guys that come to the line with far more checks than Moore. Moore has fewer options because he can’t be trusted like these premier QBs.
So maybe we are being too unfair to Jarrett, LaFell, etc. Maybe the real problem is Fox being here for 8 years and never being willing to draft and work on developing a real QB that can pick apart defenses???
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 16, 2010 8:46 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Until Clausen that is
And we barely got him
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 16, 2010 8:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Clausen was a fluke. Sort of "Oh hey, look. A top 10 pick fell to us in the second round."
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
All the more reason not to mess him up.
I think that the ghost of David Carr is casting a long shadow.
by panthersnbraves on Sep 16, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
People don't seem to understand this.
He’s not like most top rookie QBs. He’s coming from a situation where he faced pressure every down. In comparison, McCoy and Bradford (especially Bradford) were hardly touched in college. That makes the transition to the pros that much more difficult. Especially when you go into a bad situation, like Bradford and Carr has/did.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
That's more to do with the spread (lack of pressure on Bradford and McCoy) than anything else
While I agree that Clausen has the edge over those guys, it also has to be noted that there have been plenty of rookie quarterbacks to leave pro-style offenses in college and struggle in the NFL, Joey Harrington comes to mind immediately.
The other issue is the offensive line. Yes, Clausen is great at dodging bullets, but like Detroit are learning now the hard way with Matt Stafford… sometimes it’s better to make sure you’re OL is 100% solid before risking your (potential) future at the position.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
The Panthers are also a more complete team.
Let’s face it. Take out Delhomme’s atrocious play last year and we were a play off caliber team, easily.
with the most NFL ready rookie QB sitting on the bench…If Sanchez managed to get the Jets to the AFC Championship game i don’t see why Clausen in a perfect situation wouldn’t at least get us to a wild card. He is a play action QB in a play action system. With two top notch RB’s and devastating #1 WR. despite our miscues in the Giants game we were still in it. you leave upwards to 21 points on the board you are going to lose. Moore has led this offense to only 1 TD. It would take a lot for somebody to prove to me Clausen could do any worse.
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Sep 16, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not ready to hand the keys over to Clausen yet. The only reason I want him to start at all right now is because I’m concerned for Moore’s health. I really dislike the idea of him playing this weekend.
However, if Moore continues to play poorly, I will change that statement quickly. Against a much weaker team, he should be far more effective this week. But if he throws 2 picks though, I’m going to scrutinize heavily. Especially if they are forced throws into multiple coverage.
If we lose this game period the entire franchise needs to be put in check including John Fox.
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Sep 16, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
It's clearly not as easy as just taking out Jake
As we just witnessed against NYG. You also have to replace him with a solid QB. Or defenses load the box and do the same thing they did to Jake.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 16, 2010 6:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The O-line is solid.
You don’t think Brady and Manning have the best O-lines in the country do you? They make them that good by reading the defence and reacting accordingly.
With the running game we have it’s a fantastic situation for a rookie QB to be in.
As for Clausen – he comes from a pro style offence AND he’s played with a shocking O-line. He’s used to dealing with pressure and putting up numbers.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
extremely low turnover rate as well with no running support and always down so the defense knew the pass was coming and they still couldn’t stop it.
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Sep 16, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Everything looks great on paper
Last weeks performance shows our O-line isn’t as reliable as thought.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 16, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Again, I don't think Moore makes the necessary adjustments at the line.
He doesn’t command the offence like a QB should – he’s just a cog in the machine, rather than it’s head.
I do think we’re missing Otah in the running game though. But a good QB adjusts the blocking assignments after reading the defence before the snap.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
His comment about defenses showing you their hand...
It bothers me a little. It was something he said to Clausen before the preseason. Ever since I read that comment, I began to question his ability to read the defense. It just doesn’t seem to be something he’s good at doing.
He definitely doesn't.
As I’ve said numerous times, he’s just a younger Delhomme.
You’re going to win games with him. You might even go all the way if he gets streaky, but he’s not a franchise QB.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I don't blame the O-line for Moore's mistakes
When he’s getting sacked, chased, knocked in the head, yeah that’s often the line’s fault. But when he’s throwing idiotic passes that’s his fault. No ones responsible for him making bad decisions but himself.
Let’s just hope he shakes off any nerves, watches the film, adjusts, and gets back to 2009 form.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Sep 16, 2010 6:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you pay a guy 30-40 million after going 0-16 he starts. You don’t got time to make sure your line is in tip top shape. You put the best product on the field and try to win games. Stadford , Bradford gives there teams the best shot to win. Same goes with Clausen imo. Best QB needs to be on the field
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Sep 16, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Great for us to say, harder for the front office who has a significant portion of their cap committed to a QB with a twice separated shoulder who could become the next Chad Pennington
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 16, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
They'd have two drafts to get Stafford some protection.
It’s why they’re the Lions.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I give the Lions some slack at the present time...
You have to remember, Matt Millen absolutely destroyed that franchise with his atrocious draft selections while he was GM. What he did to Detroit is almost criminal, and now they’re paying the price for it with Stafford at QB with no OL to protect him and Megatron as the superstar receiver whose QB hardly has any time to throw him the ball. Add in the fact that they have no defense to speak of, and it’s a wonder they still even have fans after what Millen did to that team.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Millen hasn’t had anything to do with there last few drafts. Which have been solid but when your franchise QB has shoulder issues and you spend your draft picks on everything but OL help its going to bite you in the ass. Our line has never been set up to protect the pass. We have a run protection line. Play action gives us the best chance to pass but in order to run play action you actually got to run the fucking ball more then Jeff Davidsons dumb ass calls. Sry lol for that last part. Im ready for Fox to pack his bags just so i know Davidson isnt far behind him. Fox is way to loyal and it seems to be his downfall his Charlotte. The guy is ass by far the worst OC in the NFL and Fox stands by him 100%. TOOL lol
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Sep 16, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
They had Michael Oher available at #20.
And they took Brandon Pettigrew.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Sep 18, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
We do not have that money tied in Clausen. He was a steal and he won’t effect us much if he plays out or if he doesn’t. He has great presence and avoids the hit even when it looks like he is about to be creamed. Every situation is different and changes accordingly. Moore doesn’t have the best read on defenses. He gets blindsided more often then a QB should. Yes the Oline misses a block from time to time but a wiser QB scrambles out and throws it OOB. The small percentage we saw Clausen in Pre season you could already see he has more veteran intangibles then Moore and one is a rookie and the other is a 3+ year veteran. Ones a blue chip talent the other a NFL back up.
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Sep 16, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
I don’t think it’s no big deal to risk Clausen because he was a second rounder. I think teams should always protect their rookie QBs whenever possible because history shows they’re more successful that way.
I like Jimmy Clausen, but I don’t believe he gives us the best chance to win this year, and couple that with giving him some time in an NFL strength and conditioning program I think the long term benefits far outweigh the short term ones.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 16, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
You don’t draft the most NFL ready QB to sit him on the bench. Especially when your “starter” is nothing more then a 3rd string back up QB.
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Sep 16, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Did you watch Panther football last year? If so, you’d know Moore is more than a ‘3rd string backup’ now.
Aaron Rodgers was ‘the most NFL ready’, Eli Manning was ‘the most NFL ready’… what did they do? Where are they now?
Teams that have sense sit their rookies. It’s been proven time, and time, and time again… and for every Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan there are 5 other guys who were thrown to the wolves too early and never recovered.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 16, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Joey Harrington, David Carr, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, and JaMarcus Russell just to name a few off the top of my head.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
every one of them guys were reaches IMO for franchises who severely needed a QB and went with what was there.
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Sep 16, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
The mistakes he has made this preseason and the first game of the season…and the fact he has lead our 1st string offense to only 1 td rings 3rd down back up QB. Everybody was so impressed with what he did last year. His first test against the Giants who he beat last year…With a 200 yard performance by his RB i might add. Game planned against him and he failed miserably. All we know of Matt Moore is what we have seen but obviously our staff didn’t think too much of him for him to remain so low on the depth chart despite us never addressing our QB needs. He is what is left of a abysmal QB staff. He won the job by default by being the only guy left on the roster. Delhomme’s cut had more to do with dumping salary then faith in Matt Moore. Proof the drafting of Jimmy Clausen. Everybody can have there own opinion but mine is one of somebody who is tired of having a franchise with starting Q’sB who would be nothing more then a serviceable QB on another roster.
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Sep 16, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Jimmy Clausen is the future of the Carolina Panthers, which is precisely why I want to preserve him.
In part I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said… but we have measurables for a reason, and every measurable showed that Matt Moore performed better than well last season.
For this season in isolation there’s no evidence to believe Clausen will be better than Matt Moore at this time.
Right now it’s like a 1960’s game show. We have the big screen TV and a host is asking if we want to trade that in for what’s in the box. It could be a car, or it could be a set of steak knives.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Sep 16, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
ill take the knives because if Matt Moore throws one more interception in the redzone im going to stab somebody haha
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Sep 16, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Better cut him slack for 1 more INT...A tipped ball and you might be facing hard time!
Now three more redzone picks in one game? Stab away. No jury in Carolina would convict you!
while i was upset it wasn’t as bad as the Arizona Playoff Loss. I seriously would of did physical harm to Delhomme had i got the chance that night. Go from being so excited to litteraly ill. that was a tough game to take.
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Sep 16, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd say I have to agree with this.
Maybe not the tinge of anger, but this is a pretty good assessment.
daringantt
Matt Moore participated fully, but WR Charly Martin (hamstring) already listed as out. DE Brayton and CB Gamble (ankle) were limited.
"I’m the UFC Heavyweight Champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Gettis or Edwards should get a jersey this week if Martin can't go.
I’m hoping for Edwards for sure. Obviously.
Martin will be loos on ST. I believe he made at least one nice play against NY.
fantasy football
i got deangelo williams and dan connor. i got dan connor, and he scored more points than my starting LBs, Willis and Fletcher-Baker. he is a tackling machine, and is only going to get better.
matt moore is going to have a solid game against the bucs. he will have a great season. i am still confident. but i would like a qb with the balls to tell the coach that maybe we should run, or maybe a qb who has the balls to audible to a running play on the opponents 4 and 11, and inside our 5, with D-will back there. matt moore, get some nuts.
I really dont think
any QB is going to tell his Coach to call a run play. The Coach is the authority figure on a team. If a coach lacks respect from his players especially a QB, that Coach is not in a good situation. Just look at Brad Childress, Favre argued with him and that was talked about all year and then there were all these stories about how Favre doesnt trust Childress…This kind of things ruin a team.
I do think a QB should audible in some situations, especially the few plays we had in the red zone. But to say Matt Moore needs to get some nuts, is completely erroneous. This is an NFL player who just got knocked around, most likely suffered some form of a concussion and is still playing the next week.
"The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity." - Lewis Grizzard
by ThePanthers! on Sep 16, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
These kind of things*
"The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity." - Lewis Grizzard
by ThePanthers! on Sep 16, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
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