Five positions to watch this preseason
With the start of the Panthers' preseason schedule less than a week away, I wanted to point out a few guys that should be on everyone's radar as they try to make the most out of every opportunity they get on the field during the exhibition season.
And, before you think I'm going to stir the pot even more than it has already been stirred, Dwayne Jarrett will not be one of the players discussed in-depth in this article. I know a lot of people have very strong feelings about his contributions (or lack thereof, depending on which side you're on), but I wanted to take some time and point out other guys who are trying to make an impact with the squad instead of just providing another forum for a "should Jarrett stay or should he go" argument thread.
With that being said, after the jump I'm going to go over a list of five positions you should keep your eyes on during the preseason, because there are guys at these positions who could play a significant role in the success of our Cardiac Cats if they can make a lasting impression on the coaching staff during the playing time they are afforded during these next four preseason games.
Isn't it obvious that one of our main concerns is the defensive line? I think we've had fifty discussion threads on the topic of our defense since The Great Purge kick-started the youth movement, and there are some who are gravely concerned about the choice to go young on the defensive line, offering the theory that lack of experience could be the achilles heel of our defensive unit; and there are some who are cautiously optimistic about the defensive line's youth, holding on to the hope that the young guys will show up with an insatiable hunger to prove the doubters wrong.
The way I see it, the defensive line is made up of Charles Johnson, Tyler Brayton and a bunch of guys that we don't know much about. We know that Everette Brown has promise. We know that Louis Leonard and Tank Tyler have promise. We know that Eric Norwood has promise. We know that Greg Hardy is out to prove the world wrong about his draft stock. But, we don't know much of anything else about these guys. Are they really any good? Are they really going to anchor a defense that doesn't get obliterated on the field week after week? Will they get significant pressure on the quarterback so the linebackers and secondary can make plays?
I think the youth movement will pay off in the long run. I believe that we will see moderate success from these guys this year, and I believe that there are two guys who will really shine during the season. Greg Hardy and Eric Norwood are going to make a name for themselves this year, and we are going to sit back and reap the benefits of brilliant drafting by Furney, who were able to steal Hardy from the rest of the league in the bottom of the 6th round because a few scouts thought that Hardy didn't have a good work ethic.
Hardy is already showing signs of promise in camp according to the tweets by sportswriters who have been in attendance to some of the practices. Now, I know that performing in training camp and performing on gameday are two completely different things, but some of the comments I've seen about Hardy thus far tell me that he's set his heart on getting on the field and proving to everyone that they made a huge mistake by not picking him. I've even heard comparisons to (dare I say his name) Julius Peppers, which is an added bonus.
To go along with Hardy, we also have Everette Brown returning to the field with a year under his belt, and he's expected to make a contribution to the pass rush from the end position. He probably won't start, but he will be a major factor in the rotation when he is used on passing downs to get to the quarterback. He's added some bulk to his frame in the offseason and should be much tougher for opposing tackles to deal with.
I know they've been criticized up, down and sideways this offseason, but our defensive tackles aren't anything to sneeze at either. Louis Leonard and Tank Tyler were both acquired last season as injury replacements (Tyler being one of the replacements for Leonard, ironically), and they both look to contribute this season in starting roles. We also have Corvey Irvin in the rotation, and DE Tyler Brayton can slide inside on passing downs to free up an end slot for Everette Brown or Eric Norwood.
Leonard is a big fat fatty (6'5", 325 lbs.) that should excel at stopping the run if he can avoid the injury bug that took him out of action after just two games last season. He looks to replace Hollis Thomas, who the Panthers signed last season as a rent-a-fatty when Leonard went down to an ankle injury and ended up on IR. Tyler is lighter than Leonard (6'2", 306 lbs.), and looks to have a role in the defense similar to what he had last year before he was placed on IR in December. Both of these guys are hungry to prove that they belong in the starting lineup, and both of these guys are underrated players who should (and dare I say will) contribute in a major way this season. Keep your eyes on Leonard and Tyler, you'll be pleasantly surprised by the results they produce on the field this year.
2. Wide Receiver
As much as we've debated the defensive line, we've probably doubled that with the talk of our wide receiving corps. (Of course, the majority of that discourse has focused on Dwayne Jarrett, but I'm not going to open that can of worms here. I'm going to talk about the other guys at the position who could make an impact this season.)
For starters, we have Brandon LaFell, the Panthers' 2nd overall pick (3rd round) and the heir apparent to the "Moose Role" of blocking receiver opposite Steve Smith. Unless he gets abducted by an alien, LaFell is going to make the team, and he's going to see a lot of playing time this season. He's a big, strong receiver (6'2", 211 lbs.), and an excellent blocker (he's already been given the nickname "Buck", because he's a young Moose), which will get him on the field for plenty of snaps. One thing that everyone should watch for this preseason is LaFell's ability to catch the football. We talk about his blocking, and detractors talk about his bouts with the dropsies, but the kid can catch the football, and he can use his size and speed to gain yards after the catch. He's going to turn some heads this season, so sit back and watch the show. You won't be disappointed.
I would never hear the end of it if I didn't take the time to mention Armanti Edwards, the former App. St. quarterback who has converted to receiver and expects to be an impact player out of the slot (and hopefully in the Wildcat formation) in his rookie season. He is adjusting well to his new position, but he isn't expected to be a superstar this year. In fact, he probably won't make much of a splash until mid-season after he is fully acclimated to the position, but the Panthers are working him out in special teams as a return man as well, and he could make an impact on kick returns if he adjusts to the role fast enough.
Kenneth Moore is trying to cement a spot on the roster, and he's been the star of camp thus far as far as receivers are concerned. However, and unfortunately for Moore, we said that about him last season too. He practiced great in camp, but disappeared when the season began and didn't really do much other than disappoint. But, he has the heart and the desire to make this team, and he has the upper hand on some of the other guys competing for one of the four or five spots on the depth chart behind Smitty. Guys like David Gettis, Trent Guy, Dexter Jackson, Charly Martin, and Oliver Young probably won't make the final 53 man roster, but could be practice squad bound if no one else snatches them up off the waiver wire.
One of the receivers that hardly anyone is talking about is Wallace Wright. Of course, no one's talking about him primarily because his job is going to be special teams gunner more than receiver, but he will be on the depth chart as either the 4th or 5th option at receiver because of his value on special teams, and I've read reports that he has improved his receiving skills and could sneak up and steal a spot in the starting rotation (especially if we do see the unicorn 4 receiver sets we've been teased with this offseason).
And, to prevent controversy, I'm going to mention Jarrett - but I'm not going to go into detail about him because if you want to know the good and bad about Jarrett, you can filter through the thousands of comments that have been made about him over the past few weeks. There's no need to rehash all of that here, but I will say this: Jarrett will make the team. Whether or not he stays on the team is entirely up to him, but he will be given this season as his last chance to make a lasting impact on this roster. Whether he deserves it or not is another debate that's been debated and debated to death (all this debating's gonna make you go blind, ya know), so I'm not going to get too involved other than to say that I believe he's had his chance and blew it, but with the youth at the position I don't see any way that he will be cut.
3. Tight End
Let's face it: we don't see much out of the tight end position other than blockers who can catch a pass every now and then. Not since the days when Wesley Walls stormed the middle of the field have we seen a true pass catching tight end, until now.
Wait, what? Now? Are you serious?
Yes. I am serious. Gary Barnidge is the reincarnation of Wesley Walls. Mark it down, I said it here first. (Actually I said it in a comment a few weeks ago first, but still...) You might think I'm crazy, but you will see that the Panthers have a lot of untapped potential in the (current) 3rd string tight end, and he's going to make his name known this season. Barnidge is a great receiver who can be utilized down the middle of the field, and he is going to improve his blocking skills to get on the field more, and then he will be unstoppable.
Ok, maybe I'm going over board just a little bit, but I really do believe that Barnidge is going to be the surprise player of the team this season. We're going to see a real tight end threat for once, and we're going to have more than just a blocker who can catch. I don't know about you guys, but I can't wait to see Moore connect with Barnidge down the middle over and over and over again when defenses try to shut down Smitty and Double Trouble, only to find out that there's a big white guy destroying them down the seam.
We've complained in the past that the tight ends aren't used enough, and I strongly believe that's going to change this year, so be on the look out this preseason for an eruption from Barnidge. King is the starter because he's a team leader and he's an excellent blocker, but look for the team to use a lot of two tight end sets with Barnidge on the other side, patrolling the middle of the field, ready to strike.
4. Linebacker
When Thomas Davis tore his ACL during OTA's, a collective gasp rang through Panther Nation. We already had enough uncertainty on defense before he went down, and his injury only added more questions to the depth and ability of the defense. To compensate for the loss of Davis, Jon Beason has moved from middle linebacker (MIKE) to weakside linebacker (WILL), and Dan Connor will get his opportunity to earn a starting spot at the MIKE position.
Rookie Eric Norwood also looks to figure into the linebacker equation as a hybrid DE/LB player who will be used at both positions during the year. We still have James Anderson patrolling the strong side (SAM), and we traded Chris "Hitman" Harris to the Bears in the offseason for Jamar Williams, who is looking to earn a major role on the roster. We also have Jordan Senn, Mortty Ivy, and Quinton Culberson competing for backup roles and special teams spots (with Senn and Culberson the favorites because of their ST abilities), and we have camp body Sean Ware who will probably be cut by the end of preseason.
The two guys who you need to really pay attention to are Beason and Connor, who will be adjusting to new roles this season (Beason in a new position, Connor as a starter). There's no doubt that Beast will succeed, even if it takes moving him back to the MIKE and putting Jamar Williams at the WILL, but I doubt that will be necessary. The bigges concern will be Connor's adjustment to a more prominent role. There are a lot of fans who have the utmost confidence that he will succeed, and there are a lot of fans who believe he's not quite ready to take on the task. But, I believe that he's ready to go, and I believe that we're going to see a breakout performance from him this preseason, and it will translate into the regular season as well.
5. Quarterback
Of course I have to talk about the quarterbacks. But, it's more for the backups than anything else, because unless something major goes wrong, Matt Moore is the starting quarterback of this football team. It's his job to lose, and he's showing so far in training camp that he doesn't intend to lose it. He's showing leadership, swagger, and poise. He's among the first ones on the field for practice, and among the last to leave. He's got the job, at least for this season, and if he lives up to the expectations many (including myself) have for him, he may very well be the starter for many years to come.
As for the backups, we have Jimmy Clausen, Hunter Cantwell, and Tony Pike competing for the 2nd and 3rd string spots. Right now it looks like Pike will be the odd man out, and could either be trade bait or practice squad material, unless they plan to keep four quarterbacks stashed on the roster as an insurance policy in case of injury.
Jimmy Clausen is the one to watch in the preseason, and not just because he is the one the media tells you to watch. He's the one to watch because he's the only one who has a realistic chance to unseat Moore as the starter. He was projected as a first round pick and somehow made it all the way down to the 48th spot when the Panthers had their first draft choice, and he's no slouch. He's a very good quarterback with experience in a pro-style offense, and if Moore struggles, he could see action sooner rather than later.
There is going to be an interesting situation if both Moore and Clausen play well, because the front office is going to have to decide which one they want to keep, and the other one could be used to gain draft picks from another team. It is my belief that Moore will play well enough to earn a long-term spot on the roster, and that Clausen will be the one who is traded at the end of the season. So be on the lookout for Clausen this preseason, because it very well could be the last time you see him in a Panthers uniform, if Moore plays as well as I believe he will.
I'm sure there are other guys that you have your eyes on this preseason, and I could sit here and talk all day about each and every member of the potential 53 man roster, but as I said earlier I feel that I have highlighted the 5 positions that should be focused on the most over the next few weeks while the Panthers play the exhibition schedule to sort out the final roster spots and put the final touches on the depth chart.
Are there any guys you feel should get a deeper look this preseason that weren't mentioned? If so, feel free to start a comment thread and bring attention to them as well.
But make sure you remember what I said about Barnidge, because he's going to be special.
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Jimmy Clausen.
Hey, at least I’m consistent!
Having said that I think we’ve drafted really well again. Our college scouting director knows his stuff. I’ll be interested in how all of the rookies (and second year players) perform.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I think we've drafted well too
I just don’t think you can rely on a bunch of rookies to make you good in their first year. Learning curves and transitions are not concepts of fiction.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 8, 2010 9:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I picked Hardy..
It’s one thing to read tweets and articles, but I want to see this guy chase down QBs and RBs with extreme prejudice. He could be a 3 down DE sooner rather than later, and could become the new anchor on the DL. Obviously, my hopes are high for this kid.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
Steal of the draft!
With everything we’ve seen so far….. this kid has the potential to be an above average player for years!
I am pumped to watch Hardy this preseason.
The league will soon know what they passed on.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Aug 10, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
HOLD THY TONGUE
I’m not so sure if I’m worried about that D-line anymore. I was at fan fest yesterday and the penetration was crazy. everyone was in the backfield moore and clausen where always on the move. to me the d-line disrupted the off. rhythm. heck even d-will got stuffed in the backfield for a 5 yard loss
YOU CAN GET THE PAW
by the BlackPanther on Aug 8, 2010 9:37 AM EDT reply actions
That's because they were lining up against backups
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 8, 2010 9:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
oh yeeeeeaaaaah
that kid is going to be good. he got sack yesterday
YOU CAN GET THE PAW
by the BlackPanther on Aug 8, 2010 9:38 AM EDT reply actions
Hunter
With all the draft pick talks, I’m really ready to see Hunter Cantwell shine. He’s got an accurate cannon of an arm and the coaching staff loves him. He’s been training hard to shake the spread offense stereotype he’s been given, and want to see how much this guy’s progressed.
Armanti
I know he has had an up and down camp, but i want to see what he does under the lights. I have seen him many times at App and very rarely did he ever disappoint. I will be watching each of the rookies very closely and hope each has excellent preseasons and remaining camp. I’m also very intrested in what Barnidge and Irvin are able to bring to the table as they both appear healthy.
I don't expect to see much of Edwards until the second half of the season.
He’s an athlete, but he’s switching positions at the highest level of the game. That’ll take time.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
clausen long term
I don’t think we keep moore if both play well. Although I would like to. He’s on a one year contact and I just don’t think we will sign him again if clausen shows progress this preaseason. Don’t get me wrong, moore is the starter this year, but I think it could be his last,
by LittleKing on Aug 8, 2010 10:26 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
If Moore plays really well then they'll keep him
Trade Claussen for draft value and keep your proven QB
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 8, 2010 9:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m with LK on this one, but I think we might resign Moore and then trade him the year after next if Clausen can unseat him as the starter. That of course assumes there is a season next year.
The only chance Claussen will have to unseat him is if Moore gets injured or is pulled for not playing well. But if Moore plays well, what’s the point in replacing a proven guy with a guy whose never taken a snap?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Because Clausen has more natural talent.
by SlayerGhaleon on Aug 9, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
But
Clausen could still end up being a bust. Jamarcus Russell had a lot of talent but that didnt make him good.
"The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity." - Lewis Grizzard
by ThePanthers! on Aug 9, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Russell had no work ethic.
That was what caused him to fail. He was also an incredibly raw prospect with little to no football IQ who became a hot property due to a ridiculously powerful arm. People thought he would be the next Ben Roethlisberger.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
A number of factors could trump Claussen's "natural" talent too
I don’t see any logic in throwing out a solid QB
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 9, 2010 2:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's never going to be 'throwing out a solid QB'
Ultimately, it’s going to come down to ‘Is this the best way we can spend $50 or so million?’
If Moore has a great season he’ll be looking for a $10 million per extension and if he has a mediocre season then it becomes tough to justify resigning him unless it’s as a cheap backup.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
If Moore has a great season
Then we should offer him what he’s worth and rejoice that we found a great QB. If he’s mediocre then I totally understand going with Claussen.
I guess you think one great year isn’t enough to judge his long term worth? I juat think good QBs are too hard to come by to play that game.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 10, 2010 9:22 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
One year may, or may not be enough
Matt Moore = Matt Cassell
You’ll find Chiefs’ fans on both sides of the fence whether the long term contract was worth it after one successful season.
It’s not as simple as ‘keep Moore’ or ‘throw him away’. Those arguments don’t address any of the significant issues. Next offseason we will need to look at the contracts of:
- DeAngelo Williams
- Ryan Kalil
- Richard Marshall
- Thomas Davis
- Dwayne Jarrett (if he actually shows up)
- Jeff King
- Dante Rosario
- Charles Johnson
- James Anderson
- Tank Tyler (if he is good)
- Louis Leonard (if he is good)
So, instead of boiling this down to ’Hasn’t Moore proved enough?’ let’s discuss an extension in terms of ‘How good would Matt Moore need to be to justify losing 2,3 or 4 of the above players to accommodate a $50 million contract?’
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Aug 10, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
It doesn't have to be $50 million
Nor should it be.
If he maintains a QB rating above 80, and the team wins 9 games, look for Moore to be signed, period.
This is why I don’t like the Clausen pick. We have already sent Moore packing.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
It's unrealistic to think he'll take less
Let’s say that Moore posts a QB rating of 85. Then based on 2009 he’s a top 15 QB.
It’s completely unrealistic to think that Moore can be resigned for less than $10 million per season. It’s just not going to happen. Teams like the Vikings and Bills and potentially the Cardinals and Seahawks will all be looking for QBs next year and Moore will likely be the #1 free agent QB if he puts up the numbers you’re proposing.
We need to base these discussions off some form of reality when it comes to contracts. Acting like if Matt Moore puts in a 80+ rated season he can be had for $6 or $7 million simply isn’t realistic. The only other QB of any kind of note in the 2011 FA is Kyle Orton and paying Moore bottom 10 money for top 15 performance (among starters) shouldn’t even be discussed.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Aug 10, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
What I mean is
He doesn’t have to sign a five or six year deal. In fact, it would be wise to try and sign him to an extension before the season is over, before he can test the market value.
But James, are proposing is that every starting QB in the league should make at least $10 a year.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
No i think he was proposing they make at least $10 MILLION a year. =)
but $10 sure would be cheap
"The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity." - Lewis Grizzard
by ThePanthers! on Aug 10, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Welcome to the conversation
Do you have anything you’d like to add.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
Sure why not...
I think if Matt Moore plays well then the Panthers are going to the superbowl. Im not even joking when I say that, everyone here knows that this team has always lacked an above average and consistent QB and well Moore might be that guy.
If we have that kind of success with Moore then we have to resign him. A lot of other teams pay their QB’s a lot of money and still find a way to keep their other players around so I dont see why we couldnt do it.
Looking at James’ list of players on contract years I see five or six that I would say have to be resigned. Kalil, Marshall, Williams, Johnson, King, Anderson if hes a starter and whichever DT plays best.
I guess all I’m trying to say is that if Moore plays well then why wouldnt we do our best to keep our QB. This is a great situation to be in though, debating over which QB would be better to keep. Usually we have no choice who our QB is.
"The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity." - Lewis Grizzard
by ThePanthers! on Aug 10, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you that we can keep the guys who matter
There are some guys on that list who will not be on the team in 2011.
But Moore, Davis, Williams, and Kalil are the big 4. We should have no problem signing these guys. And we should. Even if it means letting go of most of the other guys on the list.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
No, not every starting QB in the league should make that much
But, I don’t set the value of QBs in the NFL, the NFL does.
Here is what between $5 and $10 million buys you in the NFL at QB (based on 2009 salaries, per USA Today):
- Matt Ryan ($9.9 million)
- Aaron Rodgers ($9.6 million)
- Matt Hasselbeck ($9.4 million)
- David Garrard ($9 million)
- Derek Anderson ($8.7 million)
- Jake Delhomme ($8.5 million)
- Marc Bulger ($8.5 million)
- Kerry Collins ($6.5 million)
- Chad Pennington ($5.7 million)
- Daunte Culpepper ($5.0 million)
Even if you don’t think Moore would be at that Matt Ryan/Aaron Rodgers skill level, the league has set the value of starting QBs extremely high.
I understand what you’re saying, but it essentially boils down to assuming Matt Moore will take a deal far less than what he would make on the open market. It takes two to make a deal happen, and Moore’s camp know how unlikely it would be that the Panthers would franchise him.
Matt Cassel has to be the analogous QB in all these scenarios; a relatively young QB, a career backup who made the most of the starting time he had finishing with a QB rating of 89.4, looked for a 5-6 year deal and ultimately got 6 years, $63 million.
Cassel directly reflects the Matt Moore scenario if Moore plays a full season at his prior level of play. I agree it would be wise for the Panthers to lock up Moore midseason, but it’s tough to justify why Moore would take a 3 year deal if he’s playing well knowing he’d be the most sought after free agent QB in 2011.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Eventually we'll have to pay a QB if we want to keep a good one
If were willing to shell out big bucks to INT prone, bottom feeding, Cajuns then why not Moore?
I don’t think QB is the position where you risk going cheap… Not unless you are sure the backup has star potential. I don’t think we’ll know that about Jimmy.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 10, 2010 2:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We’ll know enough about Jimmy by the end of the preseason, even more if he needs to start at all this season.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Whenever I think of this situation
It reminds me of the Chargers a while back with Phillip Rivers and Drew Brees. Both are elite QB’s but I would much rather have Drew Brees if I had the choice.
I just dont want to see the Panthers make the wrong decision by keeping Clausen because they think hes going to be good. Id rather them keep him because they know he’ll be good. But I guess the only way to see that is to see him play which we’ll all get on Thursday. If he plays with and shows me all the potential that you see in him then I wouldnt be so against releasing Moore, but I do have to see it first.
"The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity." - Lewis Grizzard
by ThePanthers! on Aug 10, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
“If he plays WELL…”
"The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity." - Lewis Grizzard
by ThePanthers! on Aug 10, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
The difference in this and San Diego
Is that there were concerns over Brees’ injury. Moore on the other hand has no strikes against him at this point.
I think if Moore plays really well then I’d rather trade Claussen.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I'm with ST on this one
I’d rather keep Moore if he plays at the level he did at the end of last season.
I think that signing Moore to a $10M per year extension shouldn’t be that difficult. We cleared a lot of cap space when we purged the vets from the roster, so I’m sure we could afford to sign Moore and the other important guys to extensions.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
QB is the most important position in the field
None of those guys, including DeAngelo (since Stewart is behind him) is more important than a solid QB. That needs to be the priority.
And the reason I think Moore != Kassel, is because Moore would be continuing to play in the same system/team that he would have already excelled in. Kassel went from the patriots to the friggin Chiefs.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 10, 2010 2:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree that QB is the most important
But again, we’re not looking at a 1-1 situation. It could be 2 of the bigger names, or 3 of the mid range guys.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
The one thing trending these salaries down
Is the CBA. Owners are asking players to take an 18% pay-cut overall.
If an agreement is actually somewhere in the middle, then we can expect salaries to scale back a bit. The Players, not keen on just giving and getting nothing in return, would more than likely secure more guarantees in their contracts.
I don’t think its unreasonable for a QB in our system to sign a deal for 6, 7, or 8M a year. It’s not as if he’s asked to throw the ball 50 times a game.
I’d even argue that with the way we play football ’round here, QB is not the most important position.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
If we take that to the extreme and every player in the NFL is forced to sign for 18% less that they otherwise would have made again I ask… what would Matt Moore need to do to warrant an $8.2 million per season?
What you’re referring to, the ‘Carolina system’ and ‘not asking a QB to throw 50 times’ further supports the idea that the front office would let Moore leave. Why do we need an $8 million QB? If we’re committed to the run wouldn’t it be far more prudent to keep DeAngelo Williams at $6 million and Ryan Kalil for $4 million per?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Yes, keeping the run game intact should be tops
But despite the fact that it plays second fiddle to the run-game, the QB position cannot be put into incapable hands.
I believe that Moore, Williams, Kalil, and Davis will be signed, one or more of them might be signed during the season, especially if a new CBA is reached.
This is all operating under the assumption that John Fox is offered another contract. If a new coaching staff takes over, all personnel bets are off.
Which leads me to another area of interest moving forward…Jerry is 72? He has someone else’s heart beating in his chest. I’m not sure he is going to own this team for more than another 4, 5, 6 years? Does he want to blow the whole thing up?
If Moore walks, and Clausen takes over, if Williams walks leaving us with one oft injured star running back, if Kalil leaves damaging the talent level and continuity of the Oline, if Davis walks and we are stuck long-term trying to patch our LB unit, then we should all expect a step back.
How many steps back is Jerry willing to go? At some point he would like to be competitive, and I mean really competitive. Like better than 40 to 1 to win the Super Bowl.
We question how much Jerry is willing to spend. But if he wants to have a winning product, he is going to have to spend. He is not foreign to the idea, having pressed the limits of the 124 million dollar salary cap a season ago.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
The team just got blown up
Compared to last year we have:
- New starting QB
- New starting WR
- New starting FB
- New starting RG
- New starting SS
- New starting DTs
- New starting DE
- New starting OLB
I don’t really know how much the ‘Jerry wont be willing to blow up the team’ scenario is when we did this much now.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
In: Williams, Stewart, Smitty, Kail, Gross, Otah, Davis, Beason, and Gamble.
Out: Delhomme, Hoover, Moose, Pep, Kemo, Harris.
I’m looking at a team with it’s core very much left intact, Peppers aside.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
Doesn't that depend on who the coach is?
See below
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Another factor is who the Head Coach will be
There could be a new head coach and staff as well. I think Moore fits the semi-big arm QB that Fox wants to sling the ball down field.
If somebody new came in and wanted to implement something like the West Coast offense, then I could see there being more interest in Claussen.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Or Pike for that matter.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Aug 10, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Southtunnel said
But if Moore plays well, what’s the point in replacing a proven guy with a guy whose never taken a snap?
So assuming that happens I would much rather keep a proven QB over one who hasnt taken a snap.
"The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity." - Lewis Grizzard
by ThePanthers! on Aug 10, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too
What he said that I said
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 10, 2010 2:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So did David Carr, Jamarcus Russell, Matt Leinart
You ultimately have to go out and play on NFL Sunday. Matt looks like a guy that can, Jimmy is nothing more than these other college standouts at this point.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 9, 2010 2:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yup
The success rate of 1st and 2nd round QBs is what, 52ish %?.
You don’t know what you have until the guy gets out on the field and gets some work. Certain guys just can’t cut it, certain guys are victims of their circumstance, and some guys make the jump.
It is reassuring, for a change, to have a young stable of QBs. One of the four will almost have to stick. To have the QB of the future in the QB room, whether it be Moore, Cantwell, Clausen, or Pike, is a nice change from a room full of veteran journeymen.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
by ERL on Aug 9, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotta agree there
Never thought Fox would make a move like this
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
If both play well.
I tag and trade Moore. Although we still don’t know how the CBA will play out, so that’s one thing to consider.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Aug 10, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Could just as easily sign Moore and trade Claussen
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
If both play well,
we go the route of saving money and trade Moore. Clausen won’t need an extension for two, maybe three years.
Can’t wait til Thursday, we can eliminate all these "if"’s.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Aug 10, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
It appears this position battle still has a LOT of legs left
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
offense concerns
First, I’m not as concerned as I had been with the D but I do want to see it in live action before I’m completely comfortable. The offense on the other hand does concern me a bit. While they have practiced well, their poor performance at fan fest gives me pause. In preseason I want to see better progress. I think the big reason for the concesn is what Jason said in another post that during last preaseason they looked flat and it carries into the regular season.
by LittleKing on Aug 8, 2010 10:41 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
See my fanshot about the Saints version of Fanfest...
same thing happened to their offense. I think it just takes longer for offenses to shake off the rust and get sharp at semi-real game speed.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
"True dat!"
Also, a lot of our key guys on offense weren’t out there either. I’ll start to worry when double trouble and the entire OL is out there and getting shoved around by the DL. You would expect the 1st string DL to dominate (essentially) the 2nd string OL.
Fan Fest is a poor sample of this team
From what I understand the 1st string O-line barely saw the field. The backups should be fine as inserts into the starting line, but as a unit they should get handled by our D-line.
Add our starting O-line and our star WR and this offense more than doubles in efficiency. I don’t think we should let their absence concern us or inflate our perception of this D-line.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 8, 2010 9:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Definitely Clausen
He might be our franchise QB for the next 10 years.
I agree with LK, if Moore plays well, why would they throw a massive contract at him? Especially since they have to resign DeAngelo and Kalil.
I hope i’m wrong, cause I want Matt to be the guy.
That’s an interesting point. Who all do we have to resign next season?
Williams by far should be a lock to resign. There’s no reason to let him hit the open market and I’d actually say franchise tagging him would be the choice if it comes down to that. I’ve yet to see another RB who can run into a cloud players and find a way to get through it without being tackled.
There’s also Richard Marshall, Thomas Davis, Ryan Kalil, and Matt Moore. Those are all pretty important parts of the team.
James Anderson, Jamar Williams, Charles Johnson, Louis Leonard, Tank Tyler, and a whole bunch more.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Aug 9, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Clausen by a wide margin
I’m excited to see the other guys too, but Clausen was the first time since 1995 that the Panthers took a QB in the first two rounds. I believe he has franchise QB potential (and no, just because I’m giving Clausen props doesn’t mean it’s a knock on Moore) and I want to see if this confidence and moxie will translate into performance on the field.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Buck LaFell
If Buck LaFell shucked shells by the seashore, how many shells could Buck LaFell shuck?
If Buck LaFell married Patti LaBelle, would THEY shuck shells by the seashore?
Try saying those 5 times…
Sorry I'm not taking all this seriously - just in a goofy mood this morning.
I loved the thread, and am rec’g it.
I'm most excited to see LaFell to
He is in a great position to excel. He is on the team that will most utilize his blocking ability. And he lines up opposite a WR that will draw a lot if attention away from him. And he’s hungry!
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 8, 2010 9:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i vote Lafell as well
we’ve been searching for #2 for years. No Moose safety net this year, so somethings gotta give. And I think Lafell is the guy. Like ST said he’s hungry, he knows that 2 spot is available and he wants it. Smitty was high on him in an interview last thursday at training camp. Sounds like he has Smitty’s vote as well
I'm taking my talents to South Beach.
by John Chilton on Aug 8, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
but it was difficult
not to pick Hardy. I see some sacks in the near future for this kid.
I'm taking my talents to South Beach.
by John Chilton on Aug 8, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Sean Ware is the fastest LB on the team other than Davis, I think.
That alone should give him looks in special teams coverage in my opinion. I wouldn’t count him out to make the practice squad if nothing else, so they can bring him up if there are some injuries at LB.
It might just be me, but I think Rosario is just about as good a receiver as Barnidge. I don’t know how well Barnidge blocks, but I know Rosario has some decent skills at it. I think Rosario will get more snaps than Barnidge. But, clearly, King will get the most, as always, and deservedly so.
stuff 'bout stuff.
Barnidge is fast
and athletic. He is a threat. rosario is a good reciever ( he drops a lot though) but not all that talented after the catch. Barnidge can stretch the D. Im looking forward to him doing it week 1 againsts the Giants brand new Tampa 2 and their weak LB corp. He should tear up the middle of the field. and I cant wait to see who they put over him. But any of their OLBs i think will be a mismatch. Boley is good in coverage but if we have 2RB 1 TE or 2TE Boley wont be in. it should be Sintrim and Kiwi and Barnidge will destroy them. I hope we do not see much of him in the preseason. I dont want anyone tipped off to what we will do this year.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
OH!
I don’t remember seeing Rosario drop anything, but ok. I’m sure he’s dropped some at one time or another, but it doesn’t stand out to me enough to remember.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Aug 8, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
In 08 in the weeks following the SD game
It seemed to me that he was dropping every pass that came his way. that sticks in my mind. he made me pull out many a hair from my head.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
OH!
I think LaFell needs a new nickname.
I dont think its right to pin a name on him based on another player. Let the man have his own identity.
Recd BW
great article. Barnidge I am very high on. Been high on him since we drafted him. he is going to punish the Giants week 1.
Also Norwood and Hardy I think are going to make a big impact. Norwood should work his way into the SAM at least on running downs. Passing situations we could come out in the nicke and get quite creative. Norwood and Beason at LB. Brown and Hardy on the ends. And then you can just go nuts in the middle depending on matchups with Leonard,Tyler,Irvin,Brayton,and Johnson. And if we nee some extra coverage you put Beason and Anderson at LB and Hardy in the middle and put Norwood on the end. sick sick sick, you can get so creative with blitzing with these combinations. lots of speed.
Im too excited about this D this year. They are going to be nasty!
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
OH!
I'm looking forward to the blitz packages we can use
Brown, Hardy, Brayton, and Tank on the line, with Norwood and Beast at OLB’s … wow.
We should be able to get a lot of pressure on the QB with the speed we’ve gathered to play on the line and at LB.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
that is all I see is pressure when I look at who we have
If we have Norwood and Connor and Beason at LB on running downs then they should be able to shut the run down! do not forget that Norwood not only holds the record for career sacks at S.Car. he also holds the record for TFL. He ends plays. He like teleports into the backfield and makes the prettyest most aggressive tackles. He is solid. And he plays zone really well. If we can afford to let Connor drop back into coverage then Norwood can definately drop into coverage.
So just follow my line of thought for a second. Norwood the habitual TFL backfield trespasser. Connor the tackling machine and Beason the beast, shooting the gaps and shedding blocks, slamming ball carriers to the ground!
I might have just found my next signature…
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
OH!
I voted for Hardy.
After hearing his name all training camp I am positive this D-line will be able to get pressure. With the combo of Hardy, Brown and Norwood our pass rush should be one of the most feared in the league.
"The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity." - Lewis Grizzard
Great Article
I Feel The Same Way About Barnridge. And not trying to hate on Anderson but I think I would rather see Jamar WIlliams, Beason, and Connor start this season. I really like what i’ve seen and heard about Jamar Williams. Than for the 2011 Season or Possibly the End of the 2010 we would have Williams, Beason, and Davis and I really like that with Connor possibly rotating depending on his success. And I can’t wait to see Hardy kick some ass.
"You see, in this world, there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig." -- The Man With No Name, "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly"
I'm looking forward to seeing Hardy destroy some people too.
Glad I’m not the only one that feels the way I do about Barnidge, btw.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
bw, I've been beating the Barnidge drum for over a year now.
I made a few posts comparing him to Todd Christensen of the Raiders – slow start, then boom!
http://www.nfl.com/players/toddchristensen/profile?id=CHR290703
...but I voted for Hardy.
He could have a monster effect on our DL.
I actually voted for Hardy too, for the same reason you did.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
No mention of Charles Johnson
in the article. I’ve read some good things and a few bad, so not really sure how he’s progressing. Thought it interesting that he was forgotten though. Hope that’s not a bad sign.
Re Johnson: it's not necessarily a "bad" sign...
He’s just not standing out right now, at least not from the tweets/articles/blogs I’ve read thus far.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
I don't understand why he was left off either
He has more regular season production than anyone else in this D-line, yet he doesn’t get a mention? MANY training camp standouts disappear once the real action starts. But Johnson has carved his spot in games that count! Let’s not fool ourselves.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 8, 2010 9:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
My apologies...
I forgot to put his name in before Tyler Brayton’s in my sentence: Tyler Brayton and a bunch of guys that we don’t know much about. That’s pretty much all I would have said about him.
But, I have added him since I did forget to put him in there.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
No worries
Were all an opinionated bunch of know-it-alls.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I am cautiously optimistic about Moore
Because he had a good camp last year but then was a non factor during the season. I’m hoping he’ll not repeat that, and benefit from having a years experience in this team.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 8, 2010 9:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You summed up our DTs perfectly when you called them injury replacements
That’s what they are. Guys who couldn’t start elsewhere and were brought here to replace injured starters.
Maybe they will be incredible finds that will contribute in a major way. But if they are as well as Hardy and Norwood, 2 late round rookies, then Hurney is the best GM in the entire league.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 8, 2010 9:02 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
greg hardy
pretty upset i’ll miss the first game (which i’m pretty sure is the only nationally televised one), but I’m sure I’ll be able to read about how great hardy was when i get back
All the rookies and new starters
I mean how you have to be excited about how these guys are going to look with all the new guys trying to play as a team and getting in synch with each other.
That said I picked Greg Hardy – if he stays injury free he could he have an impact this season. I like Clausen a lot too but less excited about him in preseason.
Good job BW, but......................................
no way we should trade Clausen. One of the BIG reasons for our down seasons has been lack of a backup QB that can come in and be respected enough so the run game is not shut down by stacking the box. We need a backup that can win games. Remember Carr, Wienke, Testaverde, AJ Feely? I think we’re in the best shape we’ve been in a while at QB with Moore, Clausen, and Cantwell. Would like to trade Pike, but think it’s unlikely anyone will give up even a 7th rounder for him, so we’ll likely release him and try to get him on PS.
clausen
i would be truely surprised if a clausen trade is in the cards. i believe he will be an outstanding qb in this league. he was a steal at 48th pick. you want to groom him not trade him. given the right opportunity he will be a great nfl qb.
very true.
Clausen will not be traded this year, I would bet my worldly possessions on it.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Aug 10, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions

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