Carolina Panthers' Monday Morning Optimist 8/30/10
by James Dator on Aug 30, 2010 10:26 AM EDT
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Good morning Panther faithful and welcome to the Monday Morning Optimist. How 'bout that defense? I don't think enough good things can be said about the quality, caliber and power of the Carolina Panthers' defense thus far. As a defense on Saturday night here's what the Panthers did:
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Allowed just 217 total yards
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Sacked the QB seven times
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Forced two fumbles
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Intercepted two passes
There's no magic formula to what the Panthers are doing on defense. No exotic blitz packages, no weird schemes, they're just playing faster than stronger than their opponents- daring them to try and get yardage and thus far it hasn't worked for any of the three teams faced. It remains to be seen if they can keep up this pace all year, but it's a very, very promising sight from the phase of the game the fan base thought could be a weakness.
The offense on the other hand still looks a little lost without Steve Smith, Jonathan Stewart and Jeff Otah. Hopefully this is all that's needed. While the offense made clear strides against the Titans it's still clear that this is the weaker of the two major phases.
Lots of great performances in the 15-7 win, so let's break it down...
After the jump
This week's focus for the in depth look goes to Everette Brown the sophomore DE who was starting to garner attention from a section of the fan base wondering if he was going to be a bust given the price we paid to draft him (1st round pick). We heard reports before the OTAs that Brown had bulked up to the tune of 15 lbs while still looking just as explosive. Your's truly called him several months back 'a younger, more inexperienced Dwight Freeney' another smaller DE who Ron Meeks turned into a pass rushing monster. It now appears that Brown is 'getting it' and I would like to table this nickname for your approval: UPS- Unbelievable. Panther. Sack machine.... what can Brown do for you?
Thus far in the last two games as a starter Brown has amassed 7 tackles, 3 sacks and 1 forced fumble. These came working against D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Michael Roos, both highly respected LT's. On the field it looks like Brown is moving at 100% and his opposing tackle I moving at 75%; he's so quick he's getting around the edge before the LT has time to rotate and set. Everette Brown is poised for a monster season and with Greg Hardy continuing to be disruptive it appears the Panthers will be set at DE for a long time.
Much like last week the optimistic rankings will be heavily dominated by the defense. There are so many guys who deserve kudos, but not enough time to give everyone their props. So I'm going to concentrate on the guys who made the biggest impact on Saturday.
Optimistic
Everette Brown- Extremely Optimistic: Heading this category again for the second straight week. For all the reasons mentioned above and more he looks like a very special player.
Charles Johnson- Extremely Optimistic: Johnson was the guy I believed was most poised for a breakout this season. With Tyler Brayton injured he's not working from his natural blind side spot, but regardless he was impressive on Saturday with four tackles and two sacks.
Eric Moore- Extremely Optimistic: Talk about a guy holding on to the NFL by a thread and making the most of his chance. Rather than retiring like some journeyman players would do Moore is out there fighting tooth and nail for a shot... and it looks like he's going to get it. One sack and one forced fumble last night.
Jon Beason- Extremely Optimistic: He's not in his natural position and he's still making plays. Beason led the Panthers in tackles with five and helped shut down Chris Johnson.
Blitzing Defensive Backs- Extremely Optimistic: I loved how Meeks utilized safety and corner blitzes on Saturday night. Richard Marshall and Charles Godfrey both got sacks against the Titans, but on numerous more plays there was a DB in the backfield harrassing the quarterback. It's a really nice way to use our speed.
Mike Goodson- Extremely Optimistic: Prior to Saturday's game I thought Goodson was right on the cusp of possibly being cut. I'm glad he game out and showed he can be effective on Saturday. He ran the ball well, caught out of the backfield with poise and got the Panthers their only TD on a 91 yard KR.
Brian Witherspoon- Extremely Optimistic: One tackle, two interceptions, one punt return = Extremely optimistic.
Dan Connor- Somewhat Optimistic: Only had three tackles solo and one assisted, but that doesn't really matter. Connor is being asked to fill the shoes of Jon Beason in the middle, hands down the toughest role to fill and he's doing so admirably. People aren't getting past him and he's showing why he's the all time leader in tackles at 'Linebacker U'.
Matt Moore- Somewhat Optimistic: I rated Moore's 1st half and 'extremely pessimistic' and his 3rd quarter as 'extremely optimistic' so this is me splitting the difference. Moore had both brilliant and terrible moments on Saturday night, the former being a beautiful 24 yard strike to Dante Rosario, the latter being a mess of a pass play resulting in a long bomb into triple coverage that was lucky not to be picked off. Moore settled down a lot after half time and played the way we know he can. Once bitten, twice shy and I'd be lying if I didn't admit I'm slightly concerned Moore will have a 'good Matt, bad Matt' dichotomy much like Jake Delhomme did.
Jimmy Clausen- Somewhat Optimistic: We didn't see a lot of Jimmy Clausen, but that was to be expected. This was Matt Moore's game and Thursday night's game will be Clausen's. We saw accurate passes, good zip on the ball and poise in the pocket. We just didn't see a lot of it thanks to both the game clock and an offensive line who had itchy trigger fingers.
Trent Guy- Somewhat Optimistic: Showed that he can be a part of this team having two good punt returns and one good reception.
Brandon LaFell- Somewhat Optimistic: Needs to wok on his hands more, but that one handed circus catch was too good not to recognize.
Armanti Edwards- Somewhat Optimistic: What a difference a week makes. They should concentrate solely on his receiving and forget about the punt returns for now.
Pessimistic
Dwayne Jarrett- Extremely Pessimistic: I think it's safe to say his future is on life support right now. Against the Titans he was a starter in name only. When a player is barely featured in game three they're either injured or about to be a casualty of a cut. He hasn't proven himself enough to get the job and with promising guys like Wallace Wright (pending injury evaluation), Brandon LaFell, Armanti Edwards, Trent Guy and David Gettis who all had good games it's tough to justify continuing the experiment any longer.
Marcus Hudson- Somewhat Pessimistic: He had a good performance afterwards, but being burnt that badly by a TE for a touchdown was ugly.
Overall Outlook
I'm still willing to give the offense the benefit of the doubt. When Steve Smith and Jonathan Stewart are reinserted into the lineup I think you'll see a much more fluid and effective offense. Word is the Steelers will be played Ben Roethlisberger extensively in game four to get him as much plying time as possible before he starts his suspension, so it will be a great opportunity to see the 2nd team defense step up.
90% Optimistic heading to Pittsburgh
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Your nickname is a stretch
Only because it is to much. Just call him UPS. and when someone asks why you call him that… just say “what can Brown do for you?”
It’s hard to give him a nickname because Everette is not exactly easy to associate with anything, and Brown is generic. I would like to submit… “Every Down” Everette Brown as a little rhyming wordplay. Just say it without pausing. Every Down Everette Brown.
I’m surprised we didn’t see any Offensive Line talk in your Pessimistic section. Starters looked okay… but all the penalties were killer, and we failed to really get much of a running game moving. Backups really looked terrible with all those false starts. I am hoping Otah provides the answer, but as a whole, our OL is not playing up to their billing. They don’t looks mean enough out there… maybe they are saving it for the season. I hope that is what it is.
I’m also somewhat pessimistic about John Kasay. Look, we know he can kick accurate field goals. But he always seems to choke up in the clutch. He could have put the game out of reach if he just hit that little chip shot FG. Instead he pulled the bejeesus out of it. And as we all know, this is the first time Kasay has missed an easy FG when it mattered. There is no doubt that he is a historic panther, but when do we start looking for a young and strong legged replacement that can also boot kickoffs?
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Definitely on the fence about the o-line
The FS penalties were so comically stupid I don’t even know where to begin.
I guess I was looking at the OL vs. the Titans and comparing it to the overall OL vs. the Ravens and Jets. At least this time after the snap they managed to get some form of pass blocking for the most part.
Not ready to be optimistic on these guys, but thought I’d give them a pass this week. I guess I was feeling generous.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Aug 30, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Meeks our future Head Coach???
I’ve asked this before, with no response. Maybe no one finds the idea as intriguing as me.
But I am in the camp that thinks Fox is gone after this season, either by Richardson or his own doing. So assuming he does leave, wouldn’t Meeks be a likely candidate? JR has been said to prefer building from within. Jeff Davidson sure doesn’t look like a good candidate. But if Meeks builds a top NFL defense in 2 years, might JR give him the keys? And if so I wonder what a Meeks offense would look like?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 30, 2010 11:09 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
hmmmm
how about small, strong, and fast…with alot of attitude?
THAT'S IT!
the picture of a MEEKS offense! Way to dial it up!
+1
I have commented about that as well
I think if Fox leaves after this season then Meeks will be promoted to HC.
MEEKS all the way...
He’s won my trust no matter who we play Meeks has our defense ready
DAVIDSON on the other hand needs his walking papers ASAP he really hasn’t shown me why he’s more than a position coach…..
by BA919 on Aug 30, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm all for it
Meeks would bring a real intensity to the game and to the players (hard to imagine Foxy running with the team) and its not like every head coach is great at every phase and guys like Ryan prove that you don’t have to be. Fox would be a better head coach if he had replaced Gump after last season. STs look better (still bad but better) and the D is incredible after a coaching change. A good head coach is able to scout and motivate talent and bring in the people to get the most out of the players, and according to Foxy elude the press at all times. I’d put money on Meeks being able to do all that.
"I kinda just sling it" -Jake
by bleed_in_blue on Aug 30, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I also wondered why Meeks made a lateral career move to come to Carolina?
As a DC things were fine in Indy. But maybe he thought there was promotion opportunities here??? Just speculation of course.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 30, 2010 2:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think Caldwell made Meeks' decision pretty easy.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
He's from Jacksonville, FL too...
Move closer to home and the opportunity to have money to work with.
For a horrible analogy, but one that popped into my head:
It’s like a kid with $10 worth of Lego. He can make some amazing things with those blocks, but maybe he always wondered what kind of things he could make with $50 worth of Lego?
Meeks maxed out the potential of the Colts’ defense when they really weren’t interested in spending much money or picks on that side of the ball. Now he’s on a team where defense is the focus.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
They picked more defensive players than offensive I think.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Aug 30, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
But they picked offense first
The Panthers seem pretty good at drafting where the needs are… They go back and forth from defense to offense each year.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 30, 2010 5:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, maybe they only picked three defensive players first in the seven years Meeks was there, but they picked a ton of defensive players in the second and third rounds, way more than offensive.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Aug 30, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see this happening.
While we have always tried to build our team (players) thru the draft, we have never done much in the way of promoting coaches. Not even at the coordinator level (as far as I can remember). I just don’t see them breaking that tradition with Meeks. He has a very similar background to Fox though, so I can see where you are coming from.
But if he builds a top, say 5 defense in only 5 years?
And that defense makes us a contender… Then doesn’t that sort of change things? Prior to Fox we hadn’t been to the playoffs since 1995… So there wasn’t really that much to choose from.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 30, 2010 5:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
* in only 2 years
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Aug 30, 2010 5:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But does that mean we want to take him out of his best role as a DC?
Seems like we would be able to maintain that standard of excellence on D if we just let Meeks continue to manage it. If he gets bogged down by HC duties ontop of that, we may see a drop off…
Just speculation. It also depends if Meeks wants it or not. Why he wouldn’t is beyond me… but there are plenty of examples of DCs that chose never to be a HC. Monte Kiffin is probably the best example, he could have been an NFL head coach, or at least a college head coach… but he decided to stay the course and make a name for himself as one of the best DCs who ever lived.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Dick LeBeau, the greatest defensive coach of all time...
was unsuccessful as a HC, going 12-33.
Stick to what you know best.
Maybe, but if Fox is gone, a new HC might want to bring in his own guy
Maybe if we are a young, top defense then they’d rather not tinker with a good formula. Depends on who they get I suppose.
Fox was a DC too, and incorporated strong defense into his new role. One thing about Meeks however is he seems to be more creative and more willing to take risks than Fox is… That in itself makes him an interesting HC candidate to me.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I see it more like...
he’s a defensive coach working for a defensive coach. Fox always has and always will have some input on the defensive side of the ball. I respect Meeks and I think he’s done an outstanding job but I don’t see him as a defensive genius thats brought us back from the bottom of the league. Overall, we weren’t that bad when he got here. Frankly, if they change coaches, I see them going with someone either proven or much younger. I’m not going to be upset if they go with Meeks, I just don’t see it happening.
Another candidate ...
Brian Baker is my dark horse. Can’t overlook what he’s doing with the DL. Both he and Meeks seem to be great motivators.
They have my doubt, but I don't think they'd call it a benefit
I’ve been pretty high on Moore since last season and I do think I should have tempered my expectations for him more than I did, but even after the titans game I have doubts about the offense, and they are growing a lot. I don’t care that Smith or Stewart are not out there I wanted to see a better performance to stop by declining confidence.
The one thing I do hang my hopes on is not the personal we have playing but the fact that they appear to be testing the passing game without much thought to the ground game. If that’s the case then hopefully when they start pounding the ball with williams and stewart we will see thing change.
What bothers me...
is that the Panther’s 1st started playing against the Titans 2nd team in the 3rd Quarter. That’s when we finally got some momentum going.
Like I said...
38 pass attempts and just 23 rushes.
The only explanation for that is that the staff put top priority on trying to weed out the WR’s who couldn’t cut it. Moore was told who to throw it to, that’s why he was locked in so often.
No way we’d ever have that ratio of passes to runs in the regular season.
Winning the Titans game was not a priority; it just came out that way, due to the fact that all the guys on D are playing with abandon, and can be changed in any combination, without a letdown.
Matt Moore becomes, automatically, a more dynamic passer, when he’s got Steve Smith out there to catch, and Double Trouble are forcing defenses to stack the box against them. At that point, play action succeeds like success.
Matt Moore
I hate to say it but he’s really not living up to my expectations. I hate the phrase, but he’s looking more and more like a "game manager.’ I know that’s all that’s expected from a Panthers QB, but I don’t want him to slide down the slippery slope into career backup territory.
Gotta wait til 89 is back.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
I just keep trying to remind myself that
Matt Moore’s not known as much of a practice/preseason performer. Oh, and that Smith’s not out there taking pressure off the inexperienced receivers.
I would agree I'm feeling pessimistic on the o-line at the moment
3 straight FS penalties? Defense looked great so no problem there. I still think Jarrett makes the roster over a Trent Guy or Brian Witherspoon but will not be sad if I’m wrong.
I hope not. Jarrett has been just to much of a headache to keep on this team. Guy has been given three chances now, and three is a God given miracle in today’s NFL. He has failed the test and needs to be cut. Guy, Gettis, Edwards, Wright, or whoever else is out there deserves that spot more than he does at this point.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
Those 3 in a row were all by subs, who won't see any action once the season starts.
MacBern won’t be at C, and Gary Williams and C.J. Davis had the other two. And the first of the 4 in that series (our 12th offensive series) came from 64/Rob Petitti, who I’m sure won’t make the final cut.
Sure, 11 penalties cost us a lot of yards (95, to be exact!), and they’re not acceptable, but most of them came from subs. Our starters are far more disciplined.
And I still think Jarrett was underused in the Titans game, not out of neglect, or mistrust, but because the staff needed to sort the others out.
i am a little slow on some updates
when is Otah expected to be back. we need him.
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 30, 2010 11:18 AM EDT reply actions
I would put Fiametta in the "optimistic" section
Dude blocks hard. I hated seeing Hoov go, but Tony is doing some work out there
Not to start a Jarrett riot
But if Moore delivers that ball on target he scores a 50 yard TD. As reliant as WRs are on good QB play, it is hard to blame him solely for not producing thus far.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
Agreed
But you can shine if the coaches don’t have enough confidence in you to put you on the field.
LaFell, Wright, Moore, Gettis, Edwards and Guy were all more impressive on Saturday than Jarrett. I understand the argument about the deep ball, but at this point is one play enough to keep him on the team?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Aug 30, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
fail
flip you and can in the first sentence
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Aug 30, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Gotcha
I don’t know, sometimes it is….Mike Goodson would say that it is. It depends on the play, I suppose. In Jarrett’s case, probably not. If he is not on the team, I might be alone in the belief that he was not the only person to blame for his underwhelming Panther career. Mostly him? Yes.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
For me, I just wonder what the coaches are seeing that we aren't
There has to be something, his attitude in film sessions, his general demeanor… something. Because he looks decent in practice (from all accounts) and decent in games (not lights out) but for whatever reason the coaches are keeping him off the field.
I can’t help but feeling like there’s some element to his work ethic or personality that is keeping him from getting any opportunities and nobody can know that for sure unless they’re inside the organization.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Aug 30, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
While Smitty hasn’t called him out publicly lately, you have to imagine how much respect Jarrett has possibly lost in the locker room due to his inability to do much of anything when he is given the chance. They cannot play the Jake Delhomme game with this guy and keep hanging on to him because of “loyalty” or a hope that he will breakout, because he has had more than enough time to do just that.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
I understand
But I’m saying that his potential ‘breakout’ moment was thwarted by a bad Matt Moore pass. You gotta look at the whole picture…not just the emotional part.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
We are looking at the whole picture...
It’s just that we aren’t excusing Jarret’s play because of it. I would wager if anything it’s more “emotional” to say that the guy hasn’t been given enough credit than to say that he flat out has not lived up to expectations.
The Moore bomb was just another example of undelivered flash. He reminds me of Drew Carter in that regard. Drew had a nice stint here, made some decent catches, but never amounted to a true 2nd WR. It was all lightning; just one flash and then gone. What I want from Jarret is consistency. He hasn’t delivered that for whatever reason.
No
the emotional part is giving up on players before the coaching staff has.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
The thing is though is that Jarrett has had four years to pick this offense up and to be a contributor to the team, and he hasn’t stepped up o the plate. If he were in LaFell’s place now as a rookie, this wouldn’t be an issue. But the guy is a four year “pro” and has shown nothing.
It is time to cut ties and find someone who is willing to contribute to this team.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
he is the same age as LaFell
how mature do you think he was 3 years ago?
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
OH!
That’s not the point. The point is that Jarrett has been here now for 4 years, 4 long years, and has been given opportunity after opportunity to get on the field and produce and he hasn’t done squat. The only reason why he is still here is because he was a 2nd round draft choice, otherwise he would have been gone a while ago.
I don’t understand why people are still supporting keeping this guy. The experiment is over. Time to move on.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
I would explain it to you...
but I dont really care that much. I have gone over this ad nausem. But in short… this is his first opportunity, he is 23, he has been here 3 years, he got here when he was 20, he was a star in college, Moose had #2 on lock, he has not been ready, Delhomme was the QB…
If you cant add that up and figure out why he is here then whatever. but it has nothing to do with him just being a 2nd round pick. Eric Shelton was a 2nd round pick. that should put an end to that point right there.
I expect him to contribute. he is not flashy but he catches everything. So he will be valuable in the RZ, near the GL, and on 3rd down. pray for this. we will need it.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
OH!
And why did we need Moose? Because Jarrett didn’t turn into Keyshawn Johnson 2.0, because Jarrett didn’t put any time into the playbook and was called out by the #1 WR on the team because of it, and because the guy wasn’t focused on football at all.
You name any amount of excuses you want, but the guy has done nothing to help himself out at all. You persevere and take your opportunities, and Jarrett has done neither.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
20
he was set records, entered the draft, and got drafted in the second round by the time he was 20… WhenI was 20 i knew everything. he made the same mistake.If i had accomplishe what he did byt the time i was 20… you wouldnt be able to tell me a damn thing…it would probably take me a couple of years to come back to earth…
we havent “needed” him. now we do. if he steps up awesome. if not oh well.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
OH!
Part of his on and off this preseason
might be that his spot is secure so they are trying to get looks at the bubble guys. Hey, what else could Fox do to piss this fanbase off more than keeping Jarrett? For that reason I consider him a shoe in.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
this is a test
water is wet.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
Water isn't wet.
Wetness is a description of a person or object’s state of being after a substance capable of making said person or object wet comes into contact with that person or object and alters their state to wet.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Aug 30, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
lol water is wet...
definition: 1a : consisting of, containing, covered with, or soaked with liquid (as water)
consisting of water = wet
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Aug 30, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
What does the dictionary know?
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Aug 30, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Tomatoes are alien eggs that will all hatch simultaneously on Dec. 21, 2012.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Aug 30, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
too much nyquil?
JK
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
JaMarcus Russell loved it.
Couldn’t get enuf of it.
I knew what you were talkin about
he likes his sprite easter pink…
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
OH!
The rest of the starters are established.
Look at it this way: we have more WR candidates than we have spots on the roster. The only way to find out who will make the roster is to throw to all these potential guys, see who drops it, who dives for it, who wrestles it away from the defender. By sitting Jarrett and having 2 of those guys, or 3, or 4, on the field at the same time, the staff gets to sort it out. When Jarrett’s out there, one of those guys is standing on the sideline, not getting his chance to cut it.
by bigdavis on Aug 30, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
See my comment above.
We ran far less than normal in the Titans game. Does that mean we no longer trust our RBs? Of course not.
The staff had one over-riding priority in the 3rd game: test the bevy of marginal WR’s, to see who shakes out. This means de-emphasizing the run game, and also Jarrett, who’s already established at #2.
by bigdavis on Aug 30, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I still don't see Jarrett as established, personally
If your theory rang true wouldn’t one expect that DeAngelo Williams would have been pulled in the 2nd quarter?
It was more important to weigh Goodson v. Vaughan in that respect.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
But Williams needs the reps from a conditioning standpoint. He needs to get knocked around a little bit to get in “football shape.” At least that’s one theory.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
Maybe; we'll see.
It’s my theory. We’ll see if I’m right when the lineup’s announced for the Giants opener.
Goodson v.Vaughan?
there is no Goodson v. Vaughan…. Vaughan is camp meat. he is gone soon.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
OH!
Couldn't cut the guy without seeing what he could do.
He couldn’t do anything.
Eric Shelton, redux.
Before Saturday night's game I thought there was a very good chance Goodson could be a cut casualty.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
+1
Especially after the botched KO return where we ended up starting on our own 3 or whatever silliness that was…
Then he comes back and shows that he can be effective as both a runner and a return man. To me that means we carry 4 backs, with Goodson doing double duty at KR.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
no way
he was a 4th round underclassman with home run potential. He gets at least 3 years to show up.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
OH!
Tell Eric Shelton the Panthers give you three years.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Aug 30, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
he didnt have the upside that Goodson does
it was obvious. Goodson is going to add a dimension to this offense that we have never had. One day. I dont know how long it is going to take him or Davidson to put it together. But one day they will.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
OH!
I thought it was because hes one of the only known quantities at WR
We know what Jarrett can do, and we know he is consistent when the ball is thrown his way. I think the coaches value consistency over explosiveness at the #2 WR because consistency sustains drives and we already have dynamite in our #1 WR. You could see this in the choices for Moose & Keyshawn. A stat to think on: Smith & Jarrett are the only receivers on the roster that caught a pass from Moore last season.
I’m afraid that a lot of people here are going to be very dissapointed when he makes the roster. The other receivers have not shown consistent hands yet, and that is something we sorely need. The only thing more aggrivating than losing games to innacurate throwing is losing games on dropped passes.
Agreed
Their is a lot of Jarrett hatred that to me, seems a bit unwarranted. He’s the guy that some people just can’t leave alone. He stepped up his game in practice the last couple weeks, according to reports. He’s catching every ball thrown his way in games—the same can’t be said for LaFell. The vast majority of the fanbase have made up their mind. I certainly hope they can change their tune if he becomes a valuable commodity during the season.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
Everyone must be seeing a different Dwayne Jarrett than I am on gamedays
I’m not really sure how the guy who was replaced by Kenny Moore and inactive for a good chunk of 2009 is a known quantity. Unless we’re talking about known mediocrity.
I heard the reports from camp too… but when is that ever going to translate?
5 catches, 29 yards… that’s his preseason. Game three is for the starters to show their stripes, game four is to work out the backups. He barely was on the field on Saturday and I don’t think that has anything to do with the organization’s confidence in him.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
We will see
If he is cut then I’ll be the first to congratulate you.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
And I'll be the first to be disappointed
Too much talent not to see it on the field.
I think people are making too many elaborate reasons why he’s not playing when the obvious one is sitting in the forefront.
It’s not some theory I’ve made up… it’s a pretty standard belief that if a guy doesn’t see the field in game three for any reason other than injury his chances aren’t good to make the squad.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Yeah...
He saw the field about as much as the other receivers. 22 receptions went to 13 different guys, most catches by anyone was 3. Jarrett saw three passes, two uncatchable, and caught the last one.
My observations were that this game was treated like a WR gauntlet rather than the season prep game it should have been due to how far behind the gun our passing game is. Could be wrong though.
I should point out that I think LaFell and Edwards are looking like they’ll be valid options this year, but I’d take Jarrett over either on 3rd and 5 or goal line any day of the week.
You've gotta look at the attempts though...
38 attempts, 2 targets to Jarrett (according to the NFL.com play by play).
There were 4 receivers who were targeted more than Jarrett:
- Gettis (6)
- LaFell (5)
- Edwards (4)
- Moore (3)
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
doh
Yeah, that makes sense. I thought one of the early underthrows was to Jarrett, guess I was incorrect. However, the above highlights the inconsistency factor. I’ll need to go watch the game again and see how many of those passes to Gettis (3 of 6) and LaFell (2 of 5) were uncatchable.
I only show Gettis as being targeted 5 times.
Maybe NFL.com has one of the batted balls intended for him (don’t know how they’d know that.)
Of the ones I tracked (see my Recap/Offense post), he caught 3 (for gains of 6, 19, and 7 yds), one was underthrown and uncatchable, and the 5th, it was borderline.
As for LaFell, the first was wide/uncatchable, the 2nd, he dropped, the 3rd was a 21 yd FD, the 4th he dropped, and the 5th was an 11 yd FD.
NFL.com do show batted balls.
I guess what I’m ultimately getting at is that I don’t see a good way where Jarrett is in a good situation. Either the coaches don’t believe in him enough to put him on the field, or when he is on the field he can’t get separation, or Matt Moore doesn’t trust him enough to target him (let’s not forget, Matt was supposed to be his savior from mean ole Jake).
The only other was to see it is that they have so much confidence in him that they don’t need to play him… but I can’t believe they have more faith in Jarrett as a WR than they do Matt Moore as a QB… wouldn’t it make sense to pull Moore earlier and get Pike and Cantwell some time?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Pike and Cantwell don't need any time.
Between your boy, Clausen and my boy, Moore, we’re set at QB. Those other two are only competing this Thursday to see who might hold the clipboard. The other, or both of them, will lit the PS. No need to take minutes from Moore and Clausen in the 3rd game.
But the WR situation is different: the staff’s got to find out who might be able to be our #3 and #4, and there are a lot of guys vying for those spots.
The Jarrett/Moore comparison doesn’t wash for me.
2007, a gloved QB and a 50 year old Vinny Testaverde still haunt my nightmares
I know I’ve preached a 2 QB system, but to not see Cantwell or Pike again would be a shame.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I am all for letting Armanti be the 3rd option to save that space on the roster.
And keep Pike and Cantwell on the PS, in case injury makes their spot on the roster mandatory..
I doubt that both of them would NOT clear waivers.
No, it would not make sense
To properly evaluate the rest or the WR corps the coaching staff wanted to see them fielding passes from Moore.
I’d say Jarrett is firmly entrenched at the #2 WR spot to start the season. His lack of reps in preseason game 3 was, as bigdavis pointed out, to give the guys who haven’t got their spot locked down a chance to show their merits.
Pretty obvious really.
Except to follow that notion is to go against everything John Fox has done for the last 7 preseasons
Games 1, 2 and 4 are to separate the wheat from the chaff, game 3 is all about getting the starters game ready.
Do we think the OL is completely locked down? I don’t think any of the backups have found their place so why did the starters play into he 3rd quarter?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I'm optimistic about the whole team!
The Panthers are one of the youngest and deepest teams in the NFL. I look forward to a number of good seasons in the future — whether the FO, HC etc remain intact or not.
The D looks great. Double Trouble are gonna pound out yards in chunks. Smitty will help open up the passing game. And despite what others say, i feel like the WR corps is the best it has been in years! So many young talented receivers that i hate to see some of them cut….but some of them will have to be cut. We have so many talented young backs and receivers, that somebody we put on the practice squad will certainly be acquired by another team. Vaughn? Pike? Gettis? Edwards?
My number one concern winding down the preseason, is the same as it always is: I hope that the coaches will keep the right 53 man roster. Evey pre-season there are some inclusions and exclusions that have me scratching my head. So, i am highly interested to see who makes the cut.
But I am highly optimistic about the Panthers immediate and intermediate future!
Sounds a little hypocritical
to say Jarrett’s one play (if Moore had hit him) wouldn’t justify him a roster spot when that’s basically what Goodson is being slurped on for… one play. Other than the KR he had one good run and three mediocre runs… so I guess two plays for him. Surely I’m not the only one that remembers everyone being on his jock last preseason, then him doing nothing in the regular season before getting injured. There’s potential there definitely, but until he can prove it when it matters he’s basically another Jarrett. They both deserve a chance IMO. Maybe I’m not as an astute observer as others, but I’ve still yet to see any WR (that has played this preseason) show that they’re going to be a significant upgrade over Jarrett. Time will tell.
Less depth at RB than WR... simple as that
A lot easier to justify keeping Mike Goodson over Josh Vaughan than Jarrett over the cadre of WRs we have.
No Panther ran the ball well on Saturday, so I don’t know how fair it is to blame Goodson for ‘3 medicore runs’ when DeAngelo Williams could only get 5 yards on 8 of his attempts.
Take away their long runs Goodson had a 1 yard ypc and Williams had a 0.625 ypc.
So while Goodson did something better than someone Jarrett did nothing better than anyone. 6 WRs had a better night than him and he was 13th overall on receiving yards.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I don't think I've ever seen Goodson run the ball well
I’m sure there may be some stat somewhere from one game that may prove me wrong but it seems his duty as RB is mediocre at best. I’d rather see him stick to KRs and whatnot
I think we haven't really used him well yet
He went in the 5th round for a reason, he couldn’t be an every down back. We need to be using Goodson like a poor man’s Dexter McCluster.
The Chiefs are happy with Charles and Jones so they are letting McCluster catch the ball out of the slot, run wheel routes and occasionally be a change of pace back.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
that's what I'd like to see them do with Goodson.
pretty much a poor man’s reggie bush type role. As well as continuing his KR duties if he excels. Sutton has done pretty well as a 3rd RB and 2nd FB and I didn’t even know he could lay the wood on special teams like that.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Aug 30, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Goodson can run, but if someone lays a finger on him he's hitting the dirt
Man can’t shed a tackle to save his life, makes me really appreciate Williams & Stew. I see him as a change of pace back, with Sutton third on the roster as a backup for Will or Stew.
I think we in Carolina have been conditioned to appreciate consistency, and that’s something you can’t get from him with our inside-tackle run scheme.
I tend to agree
However, he did get out of a pile before exploding for a 91 yard kick return.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
Not to be too down on that run but...
No one actually touched him. Watching the replay, he ran into the back of our blocker and bounced to the outside before the Titans got their hands on him.
I know
But I was just surprised, frankly, that the little contact he did make with whoever didn’t knock him on his duff.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
Good point about the WR's.
None have yet stood out as better than Jarrett. So the staff has to keep re-evaluating them, with more and more pass plays. We can expect to see the same against the Steelers, with Clausen, Pike and Cantwell airing it out plenty. This will achieve 2 things, hopefully, if the throws are on target: decide which of the last 2 QB’s stay (if either), and determine which of the WR candidates to cut, or stuff on the PS. So far, there’s not enough evidence to decide.
On the bomb to Jarrett, it’s a timing issue. As I said elsewhere, Moore threw a fine pass, 50 yds of tight, well-arced spiral. Trouble was, instead of coming down into the waiting arms of Smith (or Moose – recall how well Moore did that?), it was ahead of the speed of Jarrett by a step. Their timing hasn’t been smoothed out yet (this was, after all, the first long bomb any of us can recall Jarrett being targeted for, right?) If you throw a 50 yard pass, and the guy can only run 49 in that time, it’s not a major adjustment, is it?
Had they connected on it, Jarrett would be our hero, and Moore, too. Let’s all admit it.
Um...
I think you need to re-read what James said.
Jarret did nothing better than anyone = Everyone did better than Jarret.
Also...
How was that a “timing issue”? Look at it however you want, Jarret had several steps on his defender and Moore missed. Plain and simple. Timing issues come from when a receiver is not where he is supposed to be by the time the play develops. The play developed on time. Moore missed the target.
I said this before, but...
Moore isn’t used to throwing deep to Jarrett. He is used to throwing deep to both Smith and Moose, as evidenced by hitting them for 6 last year.
I was imagining that Moore throws such a deep ball with some muscle memory; obviously he has to launch a 50-yd throw before the receiver has run more than 30 yds, and if their ‘timing’ is right, the receiver will then reach the spot as the same time as the ball. Now I have never been able to throw a football 50 yds, but wouldn’t you agree I’m right so far?
But Jarrett’s a step slower in covering his ground than Smith is, so he doesn’t quite arrive at the spot the ball’s thrown to – he comes up a stride late.
Is that Jarrett’s fault? No, he’s beaten his man, and never broke stride; he didn’t have to pull up and wait for an underthrown ball, as Smith had to so often with Jake. If he were under the ball, he would’ve caught it.
Is it Moore’s fault? No, he’s done what he was supposed to do, too: bought enough time to let the WR run his route, and delivered a perfect pass, where his muscle memory tells him he should, where it’s worked before.
Result: nobody’s fault; just a timing issue, where Moore needs to make a slight distance adjustment to allow for that 2/10 of a second slowness (or whatever) in Jarrett’s 40 yd time.
You defined it: "Timing issues come from when a receiver is not where he is supposed to be by the time the play develops. " Jarrett couldn’t get to where Moore’s muscle memory expected him to be. This can be fine-tuned.
Again, I’m thrilled to see that Jarrett can even get open on a deep route, when everybody here has been bemoaning his inability to get separation.
You said I could look at it any way I want – that’s the way I look at it.
I see what you're getting at
But honestly, I don’t want to think that our starting QB can’t differentiate between who he’s throwing to based on muscle memory. I think that isn’t giving him enough credit.
I’d much rather believe it was a one play overthrow than muscle memory getting in the way of his ability to pace a receiver on his break.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
It was just a theory.
Like I said, I’m only speculating what’s involved in completing a 45-50 yd bomb, with perfect timing to hit the WR in stride. But better to be 1 yd long, than 1 yd short, eh? That’s when you get picked.
I still think it can be fine-tuned.
And tell me — weren’t you surprised that Jarrett could get that open, that deep?
Absolutely, he did a good job on that play
I totally get your thinking, I just don’t want to imagine a scenario where Steve Smith gets injured (god help us) and the passing game becomes more difficult due to bad muscle memory.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Just trying to offer a counterpoint to those who don't give him enough.
He IS our QB, after all. If you’re a Panther fan, no need to hate on him. He’s done nothing to lose us games, has he? Has Clausen had a better W-L record for us? For that matter, has anybody?
I don't put blind faith in anyone.
And because I am a Panthers fan I have high expectations of my team. Not unreasonable ones, but high. I’m also not going to cover up their shortcomings by trying to play the devil’s advocate in their favor.
Hold on there, buddy...
What shortcomings of Matt Moore am I covering up for?
He’s 6-2 as a starter, I assume you know the rest of his stats. Maybe John Clayton doesn’t know who he is, or what he’s done, but a Panther’s fan should.
It’s not blind faith on my part. That’s what you’re showing in Clausen, who’s never taken an NFL snap before, much less had a 6-2 W-L record.
You never have, in so many words.
But you have said, more than a few times, that you felt Moore never did anything to be the starter, without a fair shake at a competition, between the two of them.
I guess this is what I’ve differed about. Moore did plenty end of last year to be named the starter. The WR evaluations that we’ve had to deal with in these exhibitions, along with the absence of SS, are not designed to show Moore’s abilities off to their fullest. When the real games start, I think we’ll see those abilities. Now you think that makes me a coverer of shortcomings, but I honestly haven’t seen any shortcomings, as you have.
You said somewhere that you’d be the first to sing his praises, if he performs. I hope you have to, but for the next 12 days, I’m just going on faith. You’re going on skepticism. We’ll see.
I was pointing out what I believe to be the truth.
There are pros and cons to not having an open competition between the two. The biggest pro is that the position is stable and solidified. The biggest con is not knowing about the other possibilities. But this is how Fox has always done things. Look how long he stuck with Jake after most people knew he was done. It wasn’t until he “injured” his finger that Moore was even given a chance. And even still, Moore was buried on the depth chart and only got his chance due to an earlier season ending injury to Josh McCown.
You are perfectly right. I am skeptical. I’m also curious. I won’t deny that I want to know how Clausen will do, but that’s where it stops, curiosity. Until Moore shows he’s incapable of winning games, I won’t say he should be benched. However, I will say that quite frankly I just don’t know how he will perform and his performance thus far has not done much to raise my confidence in him. Our overall QB rating has been pretty horrible across the board (though Clausen’s would probably look a little better if it weren’t for the slip-fall-INT play).
But I don’t see what’s wrong in wanting to know the quality of your team, especially given the really strong flashes Clausen has shown. Do I think Clausen has done enough to unseat Moore? No, that would have taken consecutive, dominate scoring drives lead by him.
Play calling?
How important has the play calling been to our unproductive offense? We’ve been calling pass plays nearly 2:1 over running plays this preseason, that’s not the Panthers we all know and love. Obviously it’s to get our shaky passing game extra work before the season starts, but will switching back to our run heavy offense on September 12th make a big deference in the production?
Spelling Fail
Deference? what the hell was that? I meant big difference.
by SDcarolinafan on Aug 30, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Deference
a courteous expression (by word or deed) of esteem or regard; “his deference to her wishes was very flattering”; “be sure to give my respects to the dean”
courteous regard for people’s feelings; “in deference to your wishes”; “out of respect for his privacy”
complaisance: a disposition or tendency to yield to the will of others
….ya’ learn somethin new…..
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
Not what I was going for...
But it almost works.
by SDcarolinafan on Aug 30, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it makes a HUGE difference
Getting Stewart back and using the two back system takes pressure off the QBs, allows the play action pass to be opened up a lot more and also allows the draw play to be more of a threat when teams think we’re definitely passing out of the gun.
Run the ball, play action pass, draw plays, occasional deep pass, trick plays
That is the Carolina Panther ‘depth chart’ for offensive play calling. Right now most of it isn’t being used to full effect.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Thats what I thought.
Thats what’s keeping me optimistic about the regular season. I think the offense is going to be a different animal against the Giants than what we have been seeing in the preseason. We know our TE’s are solid and #2 receiver options have shown glimmers of true talent, I think Moore will have an easier time finding targets when we get into the regular season.
by SDcarolinafan on Aug 30, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
hoepfully Davidson can revert back to the pounding
in week 1. I seem to remember him being pass happy in the first four games last season.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
Of course he will.
He hasn’t lost his way, or forgotten we’re a run first team.
This is just a trial by WR’s that we’ve been undergoing.
We can only HOPE that the Giants game-plan for us by concluding, as so many here are, that we’ve turned into some pass-happy gang of 4 wides, and they forget that Double Trouble’s gonna run it down their giant throats.
lol
The Giants fans would a noose ready for their coach by the end of the game if that happened. Losing your stadium opener and closer to the same team and not learning your lesson after the first loss is extremely embarrasing
I don't think they've fixed their defense
Their safetys are better on paper. Other than that, if anything they’ve taken a step back. Learning their lesson could help them gameplan, but it comes down to being able to stop us.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
true
I honestly don’t think that any defense in the NFL can stop our run game. #3? pshh, thats bullcrap.
I think my homer is showing.
perhaps
But you can’t be a homer if you are speaking truths.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
They won’t need to stop us if we keep stopping ourselves.
by SlayerGhaleon on Aug 30, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
+1....And to lose that closer in such humiliating fashion.....
in front of some of the greatest Giants alumni that assembled on a day that was intended to celebrate the great history of that stadium. Thats going to be a huge intangible in the opening game as there’s alot of pressure on The Giants to atone for that embarrassment. Makes for a great sub-plot.
Poor Lil' Eli...
Eli Manning, meet Everette Brown. Everette meet Eli.
by SDcarolinafan on Aug 30, 2010 5:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And meet his friends, the Messrs. Johnson and Hardy.
They re-open that gash on his forehead, and the boy’ll be in the locker room.
It is a great subplot, but...
consider this: those guys can read, too (I hope; not sure of some of them) If anything, they’ll be just as full of themselves as they were the last time,when they ASSUMED they’d beat the lowly, out-of-the-playoffs Panthers. This time, they’ll be reading that we can’t score a TD, that we’re pass-happy, and that we’ve got no real #2 WR, anyway. The table’s now set for another upset.
+1
Bingo.
“There is no way we are going to lose in our brand new stadium to a rebuilding team like the Panthers”
I really hope that is going through their heads. Please oh please let that be going through their heads.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
maybe this is they're quote:
Bottom line on this one came when someone with another team asked, "Who do you have to worry about blocking on Carolina’s defense besides Beason?’’ The question was asked rhetorically.
Sounds like New York arrogance.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Aug 30, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
argh.... *their quote*
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Aug 30, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw an interview Glazer did on Fox sports with Justin Tuck
around 3:30 they start discussing practice intensity. You’ll hear “holiday inn” and “resting vets”. Our young hungry defense is a stark contrast.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Aug 30, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
oops...
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Aug 30, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
lol, No Bingo there, sorry guys.
I’m still green when it comes to my knowledge of the NFC South, but when it comes to the East I know these teams well. I have been raised from childhood to dislike the Giants, but I do respect them and I guarantee you in the week leading up to the opener, Tom Coughlin will remind that team everyday of the humiliation and embarrassment they suffered at the hands of the Panthers. He will challenge their pride. When the Giants lose that game, it won’t be because they took the Panthers lightly. Trust me on that one.
Seems to me their pride was challenged the entire last half of last season
And they could not deliver… so why believe they care about it now?
Maybe Coughlin simply can’t motivate their young team the way they need to be.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Maybe Coughlin can't.....I just want to make the point that the final game in the old Giant Stadium was a really big deal...
to the Mara family, the Giants alumni, New York media and the fans. Theres no way they will take the Panthers lightly after that major debacle. I’ve heard that game described on New York sports radio as one of the worst moments in the Giants franchise history and believe me I savored every moment of it. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think Ivan459 is absolutely correct below where he speculates the NFL gave this game to the Mara’s to open the new stadium.
And we'll bury them like Jimmy Hoffa
Just call D-Will concrete and J-Stew boots.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Aug 30, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I like it!
Double Trouble… making your linebackers look like they’re running in concrete since 2008.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
they took us lightly the first time
and they were still fighting for a playoff spot.
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Aug 30, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
They're vastly overrated, as much as we're underrated.
Problem for them is, they believe all their hype.
If anybody’s gonna be motivated by talk, it’s the Panthers.
"They're vastly overrated"
I agree and for that matter I think the entire NFC East is overrated coming into this season.
I agree and for that matter I think the entire NFC East is overrated coming into this season.
Oh hell yeah. nobody’s looked impressive coming out of there.
by SlayerGhaleon on Aug 30, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless I am totally wrong...
If you take the metro area of all the NFC East teams, you get the largest population per division of any division in the NFL.
As we all know, the only thing louder than a bunch of idiots, is 30,000,000 idiots.
And when 30,000,000 idiots are convinced they are right, well, that is all you will ever hear… until you drop a bomb on them.
Enter… The Panthers.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
The giants have actually looked worse than we have in the preseason. Their offense is still shaky and their D is not that scary at all. I really hope we embarrass them AGAIN, this time when they open their new stadium.
The NFL wanted this as a “revenge” game for the giants, so lets kick them in the nads and crap on their new stadium!
GOOOOO PANTHERS!
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
This is the stuff that long lasting inter-divisional rivalries are made of.
We are sorely in need of a non-divisional rival.
The closest I can pin us to is maybe Chicago, just because of all the player transactions we have had with them over the years.
But if we beat the Giants to open their new stadium after shutting down their old one… you can bet both teams will be circling this date on their calendar for many years to come.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
The Cowboys, actually...
The Giants and Cowboys would be our closest rivals outside of the division. Perhaps the Rams as well (we were division rivals before the realignment, after all).
Cowboys – In 1996 and 2003 we knocked the Cowboys out of the playoffs. Then there was the 2005 debacle where Smith was ejected from the game and a key blocked punt was reversed due to a very questionable call, which resulted in a loss directly causing us to lose the division. We are currently 8 – 1 against the Cowboys in the regular season, but 2 – 0 in the post-season.
Giants – Aside from playing them every god damn year…
2003: W 37 – 24 The final regular season win of a magical season, also Jim Fassel’s final game with the Giants.
2004: W 27 – 20 A Preseason win
2005: 23 – 0 Shut out during the playoffs. Afterwards Tiki made the controversial “out coached” comment.
2006: L 27 – 13 Weinke puts up 423 yards and loses after Delhomme breaks his finger in a game against Philly a week earlier.
2007: W 24 – 21 A Preason win.
2008: L 34 – 28 A rare Kasay miss led to an overtime between what mean considered two of the best teams in NFL. This decided homefield advantage, not that it would matter in the end for either team…
2009: W 41 – 9 Turning out the lights in the Meadowlands
The Gaints and the Panthers hate each other
thier fans hate our team as well.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
OH!
We usually have some good games against Arizona.
I like it when we beat them.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Sep 4, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Kudos James, MMO is the best....
Can’t wait till we start the real deal!
I, like some others, would be surprised to see Jarret’s roster spot in jeopardy, but then again this offseason/preseason has been just chock full of surprises. I also agree there has been a real heavy emphasis on player evaluation on the offensive side that accounts for some of the lack of production. I know alot of fans are not impressed with Davidson (I wasn’t either initially) but I actually think he’s a pretty decent X’&O’s guy. Seeing him up in a booth during these preseason games supports the idea they’re calling a game heavily based on player evaluation.
damn, I just saw Jake get manhandled
by Suh on PTI…
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
That was gnarly.
I dunno how in the world Suh didn’t get ejected from that game. That wasn’t roughing; it was RAPING and I thought that stuff was illegal..
by The Kackalack Kid on Aug 30, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah I felt bad for Jake.
Suh already had him down, no need to sling his head toward the ground
Rules and Regulations of the Game: 89, Bottom Line
by John Chilton on Aug 30, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Time to check you chickens
No long shots here…Panthers offensive line,among the best in the NFL! Panthers running game,Best in the NFL! Stevie,you know the drill…among the Best in the NFL! Our offense under Matt Moore,among the best in the NFL! tight end(talent and depth) among the best in the NFL!turnover ratio,with Matt at the helm,among the best in the NFL! We now have a Defense doing what we’ve needed to do for along time,and the youth and speed and TALENT to finish…Our Defense,among the best in the NFL,PERIOD! The next time I read behind you fellas who arent ready to say we are a contender,can you please point out which team ANYWHERE in the NFL man for man is more talented then the Panthers?If a #2 receiver(whoever) steps up to the plate we are going to be UNSTOPPABLE! btw our kicking/punting game is also among the best in the NFL…..Having said all that,I understand that our special teams is NOT among the best in the NFL,But like I said I challenge any of you to show me an NFL team without any weaknesses…..you can’t! PANTHERS RULE! 12-4
Got to love a Homer
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
I like how he said “you can’t beat the panthers” then followed that up with a win-loss prediction which included 4 losses…
he never said:
“you can’t beat the panthers”
Ace, where did you come from and why are you almost always wrong?
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