Carolina Panthers’ Monday Morning Optimist 8/23/10
by James Dator on Aug 23, 2010 10:22 AM EDT
in Panthers Game Recaps
Email
Print
Good morning Panther faithful and welcome to the Monday Morning Optimist. It was an astonishingly ugly game on Saturday night as both the Panthers and Jets showcased their defenses while neither offense was allowed to achieve anything. For the Panthers the game was marred with terrible special teams play as the Panthers turned the ball over on three separate occasions on punt returns, once to a muffed punt, once to a fumble and once to a returner touching a dead ball. Despite these three special teams' turnovers and two interceptions the Jets managed to only muster nine points to the Panthers three.
If you look at the lack of offense (175 total yards gained) and then realize that the Panthers are still without Steve Smith and Jonathan Stewart they really did quite well. The cliff's notes version of today's optimist is this: The defense is an embarrassment of riches; the offensive depth is just an embarrassment. So, let's break it all down...
After the jump
For the moment I feel it necessary to open the optimist each week with a look at the quarterbacks because this is still one of the biggest storylines for the Carolina Panthers. Neither QB will be featured today in any rankings as I think both played middle of the road. Each had a bad interception, but really without adequate protection and decent receivers it's tough to know how much more either Matt Moore or Jimmy Clausen could have done with the weapons at their disposal.
Right now I see both Matt Moore and Jimmy Clausen as polar opposites of the same quarterback:
Moore commands the huddle better and has a more accurate deep ball, give Matt Moore a pocket and he can make almost any mid-long range pass needed. His drawback however is that sometimes he holds onto the ball too long before making a decision to throw which can lead to defenses getting a jump on his passes, or closing on the receiver early.
Clausen is better at the line of scrimmage and calling audibles. He's more accurate on short to mid routes and can do more when the pocket is collapsing (which we saw plenty of on Saturday). His drawback is getting a little jumpy after the snap and throwing before the play has fully developed.
Ultimately, I feel safe in saying that I believe Matt Moore has a better arm and Jimmy Clausen has better instincts. Now for Moore I believe he can develop those instincts over time, conversely I think Clausen can get into the weight room and develop his arm. I still don't see this being a QB battle, but at this point I would really like to see what Clausen can do with the 1st team OL, just because the backups are so terrible it would be nice to see what he could do with a pocket, any pocket; now I know Matt Moore didn't exactly have eternity in the backfield, but there is a distinct difference between 1.5 seconds and less than a second.
Today's optimistic rankings will be dominated by the defense, and the pessimistic ones by the offense. As bigdavis featured in his play by play breakdown there were over 20 Panthers on defense who made an least one impact play during Saturday's game, so I'm concentrating on the guys who really stood out against the Jets.
Optimistic
Everette Brown- Extremely Optimistic: Flashes of Dwight Freeney on Saturday night. I hope those flashes will become his regular illumination as Brown was all over the field. I heard from the cadre of fans behind me ‘Was that 91 again?' and it was at that moment I realized that I think the light bulb is coming on for Everette Brown adding to the list of Des who have made an impact already.
Dan Connor- Extremely Optimistic: 6 tackles in one half... let that sink in for a second. Whatever communication errors there were against Baltimore were eradicating against the Jets. There were almost two defensive huddles going on a BoA, one between the whole defense and then a second one between Connor and Beason with Beast obviously tutoring ‘The Con-Man' (adopted Saturday night, I don't know if it will stick).
Jon Beason- Extremely Optimistic: The thing that's funny about putting Beast at LOLB: he creates a head game for the opposing offense, and on Saturday night the Jets looked scared to run the ball to Beason's side of the field. The two times they did so resulted in a 7 yard loss (tackle by Beason and Landri) and a 0 yard gain (tackle by Louis Leonard and Dan Connor). While Beason may not put up those 125+ tackles in 2010 it almost feels like he's influencing the game more. Every down Sanchez was watching Beason like a hawk and pointing him out. When you're one of the top 3 linebackers in the league and the other team fear you good things happen.
Eric Moore- Extremely Optimistic: M-cubed is the 3rd Moore on the Panthers' roster, and still the most unlikely to earn a roster spot... but he's doing the absolute most with the time he has and making a strong case to take Hilee Taylor's spot.
Captain Munnerlyn- Extremely Optimistic: This rating is solely from a defensive perspective, not his special teams play. What a difference putting Captain back at nickel makes. He really is about 10 times better covering the slot than he is 1 on 1. The Panthers' pass defense looks completely different with their full compliment of DBs available.
Nick Hayden- Extremely Optimistic: Hayden is showing up this preseason in a way we haven't seen before. He is looking very comfortable at DT and making big plays. I always believed the Panthers would have DE's step up in 2010, but when guys like Nick Hayden, Derek Landri and Ed Johnson are making plays at DT you start to see the first permutations of something special on defense.
Chris Gamble- Somewhat Optimistic: Only gets bumped down a little because he should have gotten the pick. Did you see Braylon Edwards make a catch on Saturday? I sure didn't... that's because of Gamble. He doesn't do anything flashy, but he rides the hip of his man all game and is a total nuisance to a #1 WR.
Too many more to name... great work by the defense.
DeAngelo Williams- Somewhat Optimistic: D-Will was D-Will... he did exactly what he always does and that is a good thing.
Jason Baker- Somewhat Optimistic: 9 punts by Baker... 9! Held a good average, pinned them inside the 20 on one and had a long of 61 yards. Good work.
Pessimistic
A thing to understand if you're new to these posts is that these rankings start anew every week. They're merely a barometer by which I enter the next week. If a player fumbles 3 times they are ranked down, but these are erased with a 200 yard performance the next week. So, please don't be too offended if your player of choice is mentioned.
---------------------------
Armanti Edwards- Extremely Pessimistic: Edwards got the benefit of the doubt somewhat last week... he doesn't this week. Simply put, he needs to get better. Edwards was going to be relied on for one thing this season, punt returns and they were beyond ugly. I'm not sure if he let Pugh know on the first punt to get out of the way, but regardless it was a comedy of errors. The muffed fair catch was the icing on the cake. I can understand fumbling the ball when you're looking to make a return and have defenders bearing down on you... but with no pressure in an FC situation it's just bad. Sure, on paper he caught 2 of 2 passes, but his route running wasn't very crisp, he didn't get very good separation and one of those receptions was willed into happening by Jimmy Clausen on a broken play.
Brandon LaFell- Extremely Pessimistic: Size and strength, size and strength... these need to be the hallmarks of Brandon LaFell's game. He failed to get separation, didn't use his body well enough and left yards on the table when he did make a reception. He needs to get better, and he knows it (from Sunday via twitter): "Gotta get better startin 2day..."
Everyone on special teams not named ‘Kasay or Baker'- Extremely Pessimistic: Brother, can I buy a block? The special teams' blockings, coverage and returns are all beyond dismal. The last thing I want to see if us having to put Steve Smith back there on PRs just to fair catch it (I don't want any contact) but at this rate we need someone who can catch a football to do something. One bright spot who should probably also be exempt is Wallace Wright, who was good in coverage.
Mike Goodson- Extremely Pessimistic: Jaxon said it perfectly; it's tough to see him showcase his speed when he can't beat the first tackler. Goodson is playing his way off the team right now with backwards returns, sideways running and backfield ‘dancing' with no gains. Sutton has cemented himself as the #3 in my opinion, and unless something changes I think we'll be drafting a late round RB to be #4 come the 2011 draft.
CJ Davis- Extremely Pessimistic: Davis is going to be singled out for basically missing every single block on Saturday night. Most costly was a play in the 4th quarter where instead of making a safe block he threw his body at the defender hoping to make a big play; he whiffed and a 20+ yard gain was 7 yards on a screen pass.
Anyone who snaps a football not named ‘Kalil'- Extremely Pessimistic: When first cuts roll around we need to troll the landscape for a backup center, because this is ugly. There is no good way Clausen or any of the other QBs can show what they've got when working with low, high and sideway snaps.
Too many more to name... terrible job by the offense.
Two special mentions from my live experience.
Panthers' stadium announcer- Extremely Pessimistic: Okay dude, I get that you may not know the names of all the Jets players... but ‘Tank Knight' really? You went for ‘Knight' over ‘Tyler'? He also forgot Ed Johnson's name at one point and gave up, while getting the down and distance wrong frequently.
Hipsters Inside BoA- Extremely Pessimistic: Hipsters clearly invaded the stadium as skinny jeans and loose Wes Welker jerseys were seen in the row in front of me. Their coiffed, professionally styled mullets were almost too much to handle.
Belligerent Jets' fans- Extremely Pessimistic: Okay, so maybe this couple didn't take too kindly to me referring to them as ‘The Situation' and ‘Snookie' but this belligerent loudmouth couple would stand and applaud every bad play while saying, and I quote ‘Mark Sanchez is better than Tom Brady'. These weren't the true blue Jets fans, but it was ugly.
Overall Outlook
The defense looks outstanding, and scary. I'm hoping with a less vanilla playbook and the return of Steve Smith and Jonathan Stewart the Panthers' offense will fall in line too. Only time will tell but with 1st cuts looming we'll soon know who's impressing and who's lagging behind.
80% Optimistic Heading into the game vs. Tennessee
223 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
That was just a rough game to watch
im not worried about our defense anymore but offense. i know i may sound like a k moore hater but man i was hoping he would do better. we need a receiver to step up and no one has. k moore had alot of chance but didnt really capitalize. he needs to play better next week or he might not make the team
by pantherpride on Aug 23, 2010 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Wasn't really rough for me
Since I was in row 3 it was pretty awesome.
This sig is dedicated to those cut in the 2009 purge.
by chinchillas sword on Aug 23, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't argue this one
Armanti was bad on Special Teams. But truthfully, I hope our coaching staff is smart enough to know that they should not be banking on him to be our PR guy this year. They would love for it to happen, but it doesn’t look like it is going to. His transition is going to take just as long as everyone would expect it to. Expecting him to be a starting punt returner in the NFL in his first season when he has never done it before (much less catch passes) is like expecting a standout college basketball player to be a great NFL player in his first season. I think it is fair to be pessimistic in the short term, but I still think Armanti has great long term potential, and we can be optimistic about that. This will be a season of learning, conditioning, and practicing for him.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Nothing has changed with his potential, I agree 100%
But, this has tempered the expectations significantly. We need a veteran WR to play in the slot who isn’t a big body type like Jarrett or LaFell.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Aug 23, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I still hope some of that potential can be tapped into this season.....
and really hope that he gets another shot at returning a few punts this Saturday. Although his runbacks were pedestrian, I thought he did a decent job fielding punts in difficult conditions at Baltimore.
He did indeed
Dominant force inside, but his future was clearly in football, which he also played. DE was not a new thing altogether for Peppers, WR\PR\KR is all new to Armanti.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Armanti...
Can we redshirt him and give him his own personal jugs machine for the next 9 months? I don’t believe he’ll contribute in 2010, and may well be a waste of a roster spot this season.
Take the world as it is, not as it ought to be.
The juggs machine isn't going to help.
He caught ball after ball after ball from the juggs machine during camp. I was there for three days and I don’t remember seeing him have even the slightest problem. He’s got to do it under fire.
by ALAC on Aug 23, 2010 11:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Also....
Although they look like it from the sidelines, not all punts are the same. Different punters have different styles, and from what I’ve heard there is a huge difference in the way the ball spins and comes down from a left-footed and right-footed punter. Don’t hate on Armanti too much b/c it’s really somewhat understandable, when you look at it how it can be very difficult for someone with I stress *VERY LITTLE* punt experience, to go into a game only knowing how your punter and the systematic JUGS punter’s punts come down, and then trying to catch an alien looking punt from the other team’s punter…
Give him sometime ya’ll, he messed up twice in the preseason…big whoop! He’s got time to get PR down and to get some more experience before it counts. And if not, then we’ll just put Capt. Munnerlyn back there. Don’t give up on Armanti just yet, he’s learning 2 entirely new positions in the pro’s and having to change everything he’s known about football….
I'm all for putting Captain back there for the time being and get him reps
to get ready for the job full time. We need to try someone else on KR’s too, Goodson is not getting it done.
I remember a Cowboys game...
I think three years ago we had the same problem in a night game in Dallas. The PRs were so abysmal we put Smith in the backfield to return again, and I think even he dropped it. There is truth to your words. Hopefully, now that he has the most difficult punt return situation behind him, he’ll not make the same mistakes.
That's a very good point, jkp1516.
Catching punts isn’t easy in the first place, much less when you’ve been catching nice spirals from Baker, then somebody kicks something else entirely at you. Weather (wind and rain) also come into play. Lights, sun, all are factors. AE is learning a new thing, so he screws up in preseason. He won’t become an effective PR guy until he gets the confidence to catch it first.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
They should set up the machine ...
…. and have Beason, Brayton, Wood, Hardy, and some other huge guys run at him full speed from 25 yards out or so while he tries to field punts. If I was the coach I’d be like, “Well, I can’t rememb …. I forgot whether I told them to hit you or not … It doesn’t matter. Go on and have fun!” That’d cure his fears real quick.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Aug 24, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
wide receiver and punt returner
The Panthers need to go out in get a quality wide receiver to go along with steve smith and a punt returner,this would make a lot of sense unless Jerry Richardson wants to loose Fans to.
I'm not saying Vincent Jackson wouldn't fit in with the Panther's offensive scheme and style
Actually, I think he would fit in very well with our offense. But, I think the Panthers brass likes to grow their talent in-house from the draft. Picking up Free Agents just isn’t a part of the Panthers plan, neither is trading players or picks for big name players. Can’t remember if it was Fox or Hurney, but a little while ago, they said that they believed that they had all the necessary peices for a successful passing attack….
In my opinion, it is very doubtful we’d trade for Vincent Jackson
Free Agent Policy
To be fair, this whole “we’ll only address issues through the draft” thing is a fairly new concept. We’ve brought in several key starters through free agency. For example… Jake Delhomme, Steven Davis, Ricky Proehl (all signed for the 2003 season), Ken Lucas, Keyshawn Johnson, and many more were all free agents that we picked up and all of them made an immediate impact for us.
Our problem the last few years has been the salary cap. We haven’t had the money to sign anyone major (or even keep our backups).
As a general rule, I don't particularly care for guys who hold out ...
while still under contract. So, to me, no he’s not my style. I could see us picking up someone after cut downs, especially a center. The WR2 position could be filled by an aging WR1 or a strong prospect that doesn’t make a roster. I don’t see any huge moves being made though, especially for high dollar prime performers.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
If this is a preview of the season to come, then we better hope this D becomes the 2000 Ravens D, because that will be the only way we put up points. Our starting O-line has me a little worried still. I realize Otah is out, but the pass protection still looks shaky and unless Smitty becomes three different people/receivers on the field this team will not succeed in the pass game. And I am not sold on anyone for the #2 spot opposite Smitty. Jarrett hasn’t done enough to show he can handle the job and LaFell has been dissappointing so far. I was really hoping to see him grab that position, but I guess it will take more time for him to integrate into this offense and NFL gameplay.
Is Jeff Rodgers really Danny Crossman in disguise? Someone better check that out…
Defense was lights out amazing. Only thing you can knock on for them was that they didn’t generate more turnovers, mainly INT’s that were dropped by numerous players (Gamble for one). Great to see them fix their problems from the first game. Meeks is really starting to get this D to play to its potential. Now if only Jeff Davidson and the rest of the offense would get that memo.
Great article James. Thanks.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
by Ivan459 on Aug 23, 2010 11:21 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
We have played against 2 great defenses, In Baltimore and the Jets.
I fully expect the Offense to show a lot more production, against the Titans.
Instead of the #1 and #3 defense (in 2009), the Titans rank #28.
I hope so. But to win a Super Bowl you need to perform against these types of D. However it is preseason, and we are without MAJOR pieces on offense. We need to see something tangible come out of this offense before the regular season starts though.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
Getting Smitty back won’t make much of an impact if our QBs have no chance to throw a decent ball to him. I’ve said it since the Fanfest scrimmage, and I’ll say it again. The offensive line is playing like the beginning of last year, which is incredibly shitty. Hell, we could have Jerry Rice in his prime out there with Smith and it wouldn’t make a difference to our passing game right now.
The O-line needs to step it up, preferebly before week 8 this year.
I wish
That Eric Moore could play on 1st string for a couple of series. He is WAY better than the opposing 2nd string, but in an amazing development, he may not make the team because there are too many linemen in front of him!
I think if he can get a spot, he will be a great rotation fill-in, or (heaven forbid) an injury replacement.
by panthersnbraves on Aug 23, 2010 11:48 AM EDT reply actions
I think some people
are blaming the O-line when it isnt all their fault. Yes the back up center is awful, and when a 3 man rush gets to the QB its obviously the O-line’s fault, but should the O-line really be expected to pick up 7 or 8 guys on a blitz every other play. When the Jets were blitzing like they were, our receivers have to get open and they werent able to do that and thats the reason we saw so many throw aways from Clausen. Yes the O-line needs to play better but they were playing a team that blitzed the most from last year and pressure is expected so I say we cut them a little slack.
"The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity." - Lewis Grizzard
My thought exactly...
I saw a couple of plays where 5 o-lineman picked up more than their fair share of pass rushers and no one acknowledged it. I also saw where they were just overloaded, which is what the J-E-T-S Jets, Jets, Jets do. Eveyone knocks on them when their bad and not really when they’re good. There weren’t many quick throws called for from the OC, hence no game planning. I wonder if someone has said that before, ONLY A THOUSAND TIMES! When the regular season starts and we face a blitz happy team, more slants and screens will be factored in.
Also, the whole “should Lafell have tried harder to defend the int?” I think he was thinking ahead. Instead of taking a chance and diving for it, thus leaving him free to return with a corner to block for him, he just took him down. I think he did good.
Ryan's teams blitz like that.
The Jets are going to blitz like that all year long. It’s just "Rexy"s style. Personally I find it abhorrent to blitz like that in preseason games, when the only thing that’s happening that actually COUNTS are the injuries. Really surprised the Jets haven’t hurt more people, either on their team or otherwise. I always thought it was understood, sorta, that teams wouldn’t blitz like it’s the freakin’ playoffs in the preseason, like the way they run plays in the Pro Bowl. Baltimore blitzed quite a bit last week as well.
It’s like this: Nobody’s going to blitz us like that in games that count, because we won’t be missing/not playing DWill and Stew, and blitzing like that against our run game’s going to get defenses scored upon, early and often. If anything, I foresee a QB controversy brewing quickly because I think Clausen’s ability to make quick decisions and get the ball away EARLY is going to be far superior to Moore’s slow progression and tendency to hold on to the ball.
by The Kackalack Kid on Aug 23, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
"Moore’s slow progression and tendency to hold on to the ball" ???
This is simply not accurate, and I’ll take the time to prove it.
Too many people have the wrong impression of Matt Moore’s abilities. I seem to be his apologist on this blog, but I’m okay with that. If anyone else wants to take the time to dig a little deeper, than just swallow what the media says (and this is NOTHING to do with Clausen), they’ll see what I do – a QB who has excellent mechanics, good pocket awareness and mobility, and ABOVE ALL – a quick release. If there’s anyone QBing in the NFL who gets it out quicker, after the snap, show me who he is.
Okay, that’s sounds fine, but prove it, bigd.
Moore had 19 pass plays in the Jets game. Here are those 19, slo-mo’d and freeze framed by me to prove or disprove my point. I hope someone else will double-check me with their own video of the game, to show I’m not fudging on my times, or anything else I say.
The breakdown of facts is as follows: for each play, I’ve shown the following —
down & distance, whether under center or in shotgun (UC/SG), time the ball was snapped, time the ball was released from his hand, difference (time he took to get off the pass, or was sacked), result of the play, and lastly, the number of rushers the Jets sent on that play. That should be enough for anybody to conclude that he is our starting QB, and a darned efficient one.
Play 1) 1and10, UC, 14:56, 14:54, 2 secs, screen complete, 4 rushers.
Play 2) 3and9, SG, 13:30, 13:28, 2.5 secs, 26 yd completion for a FD, to #81, 5 rushers.
Play 3) 2and3, UC, 12:06, 12:04, 2.5 secs, deep pass, intercepted (47 yds in the air), 5 rushers
Play 4) 2and3, UC, 4:54, 4:51, 3 secs, sacked (47 missed blitzer completely), 7 rushers.
Play 5) 3and12, SG, 4:18, 4:16, 2 secs, accurate pass dropped by 11/LaFell, 6 rushers.
Play 6) 3and2, UC, (Q2) 12:53, 12:51, 2 secs, 14 yd complete to LaFell for a FD, 4 rushers.
Play 7) 2and3, UC, 11:41, 11:39, 2 secs, screen to 34/Wms dropped, 5 rushers.
Play 8) 3and3, UC, 11:34, 11:32, 2 secs, incomplete to 81 (refs missed DH), 4 rushers.
Play 9) 2and21, UC, 9:03, 9:01, 2 secs, complete to 88/Rosario for 7 yds, 5 rushers.
Play 10) 3and14, SG, 8:21, 8:19, 2 secs, sacked, 7 rushers.
Play 11) 1and10, UC, 4:57, 4:56, 1 sec, pass to 88/Rosario – dropped, 4 rushers.
Play 12) 2and10, UC, 4:53, 4:51, 2 secs, play-action rollout inc 47/King fell down, 4 rushers.
Play 13) 3and10, SG, 4:48, 4:47, 1 sec, screen inc. to 22/Sutton – fell down, 7 rushers.
Play 14) 1and10, UC, 2:52, 2:50, 2 secs, 15 yd strike to 81/KM but dropped, 5 rushers.
Play 15) 3and11, SG, 2:10, 2:08, 2 secs, bomb to 81/KM 49 yds in air – dropped, 7 rushers.
Play 16) 1and10, UC, 0:50, 0:49, 1 sec, complete to 80/Jarrett, 4 rushers.
Play 17) 2and17, SG, 0:27, 0:25, 2 secs, complete to 80/Jarrett, 5 rushers.
Play 18) 3and1, SG, 0:07, 0:045, 2.5 secs, inc to 11/LaFell didn’t come back for it, 4 rushers
Play 19) 4and1, SG, 0:01 – Hail Mary, 5 rushers.
A side note on Play 15: this ball was in the air (3 secs) longer than it took for Moore to take the snap and get it off (2 secs) – it was delivered directly into KMoore’s hands, in stride.
Now will somebody tell me why we’re not excited about having Matt Moore as our starting QB? Twice his open receivers fell down, 5 other times they dropped catchable balls, and one incompletion should have resulted in a DPI call. Throw out the Hail Mary, and the one bad read on the safety that resulted in the INT, and he played a game far better than his stats showed. And all this in the face of 4 7-man blitzes, one with 6, and 6 with 5 men rushing.
Let’s give the guy some love, for heaven’s sake.
by bigdavis on Aug 23, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
I'm very excited to see Matt Moore at QB, especially when Steve Smith is back
What I was referring to directly when I said:
sometimes he holds onto the ball too long before making a decision to throw which can lead to defenses getting a jump on his passes, or closing on the receiver early.
It wasn’t about how long he had the ball in the pocket, but how long it’s in his hands related to when the QB makes their cut. He hasn’t yet developed the instinct, or the trust factor to put the ball where the WR will be, rather than throwing as soon as the WR makes their break.
I can’t show you this on film, but it was evident from where I was sitting looking down on the stadium North-South like a game of Madden. We’re not talking about a ridiculous amount of time, just a tenth of a second here or there… but that becomes enough with the tiny margins they’re working with in the NFL.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I believe it was the famous/infamous completion to Lafell..
where he did exactly what you’re talking about, James. He released the ball before
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
... he made his cut, and the ball was perfectly thrown so he could turn upfield
and skirt out of bounds.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
Yup... that one was on LaFell to be sure
I want to see those passes being the rule though, not the exception.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Sure you weren't too deep in the brew at the time, James? LOL
We’re splitting hairs here. I showed he rarely has the ball for more than 2 seconds, before making his read and getting it out. Who does better at that?
That completely contradicts what you said, “sometimes he holds onto the ball too long before making a decision to throw.”
I know you wish Clausen was starting, but “C’mon Man” cut Moore some slack. Your visual observations from the seats is never going to trump a 60" HD DVR slo-mo freeze frame analysis, now, is it?
I rest my case. Anybody want to stick with disproven assumptions, about a guy who played a great game, got nothing for it from his WRs and O-Line, yet when interviewed, said not a single word negative about them, and took it on himself to do better — help yourselves.
by bigdavis on Aug 23, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
When you’re sitting in the stands (I was in section 202) you get to see all the routes of all the receivers on a play. On TV you’re limited by what the camera can show you, which almost 90% of the time shows the QB getting the snap, the OL and then pans when a throw is being made.
It’s splitting hairs to be sure, but this is the minutia I’m getting into here. Typically, I feel Moore throws the ball a fraction of a second too late and Clausen throws the ball fraction of a second too early.
I have no preference on who starts. I just want to guy who puts us in the best position for the Panthers to win, right now that’s Matt Moore until proven otherwise. I really think Moore and Clausen have the same level of talent, and the preseason stats tend to agree with that notion. Both just have their quirks.
Like I said, it has nothing to do with how long Moore has the ball in his hands from the time of the snap, it has everything to do with when he’s releasing the ball in relation to when the WR is making their cut. He’s still insanely young and he’ll get that skill with time, just as I think Clausen will gain more poise in the pocket which I think he’s lacking a little now.
Sure, Moore got nothing from his WRs or his OL… but neither did Clausen so at this point I’m breaking the QBs down independent of any performance by the receivers or linemen.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Question
Would it be accurate to say that while Moore needs to work on his mental game more (picking up blitz, calling audibles, etc), Clausen’s struggles are more physical (lacking a deep ball for instance)?
And in that situation, which is more easy to correct? I think both timing issues can be worked out in practice, although it’s almost always easier to teach someone to be more patient than to react more quickly.
I think aspects of that are accurate
Rather than the ‘mental game’ I would refer to it as ‘Football IQ’. Moore can improve that with time. Clausen was basically built in a Ryan Leaf-esque manor to be a super QB by his parents and independent coaches, the only difference is Clausen likes to play.
I think both are easily correctable because at its base both Moore and Clausen have good instincts, and instincts are tough to correct, and both QBs seem to be able to forget about a bad play and move onto the next.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Aug 23, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Clausen should be renamed v3.
His two brothers were versions 1 and 2. They failed. He’s a robot.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Do you remembeer the TD to Moose last fall?
The one where he released the ball 15 yds BEFORE Moose made his cut, and led him beautifully at the EZ. C’Mon Man!
by bigdavis on Aug 23, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
It was a beautiful pass to be sure
For him to make the jump from a top 15 talen (which I believe he is now) to a top 10 talent (which I believe he’ll be) those throws will need to become the norm.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I rec'd that faster than Moore's release, Bigdaddy.
You are the man, and I’m oh so proud of the way you be keepin’ it real. You ever need an apprentice researcher, let me know.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
See it now - had to refresh the page. Thanks.
As Kermit was wont to say, “It’s tough being green.”
Good Stuff, Rec'd.
I am excited to see Moore in the actual season with Smitty to throw it to.
"The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity." - Lewis Grizzard
by ThePanthers! on Aug 23, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Big D, I am 100% with you on Matt Moore
I thought he was absolutely outstanding in the latter stage of last season. After watching the way Moore efficiently QB’d this offense last season along with the Defense coming together like it did….I’m ready for a Super Bowl run this season and in all likliehood if that is to happen, Matt Moore will be the QB. Moore seems like he has the perfect tools to execute this offense sucessfully.
Count me in as another “Matt Moore apologist” and my compliments on the play by play summaries of the Jet’s game and the breakdown here. Great stuff man.
I don't consider myself a Matt Moore apologist at all...
I just think BigD proved his point about the quick release. I think Moore’s also an accurate passer (nobody’s perfect with every throw). Now, I also think Clausen is more instinctive and a better scrambler, but he doesn’t have the arm or accuracy to match Moore at this point. If somebody shows me otherwise, I’ll jump right on the Clausen bandwagon. I just want to win, baby.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
"I don't consider myself a Matt Moore apologist at all..."
LOL.
Actually I don’t either, I was attempting to be facetious.
I’ll tell you what though, in all honesty I don’t think Clausen offers ANY upside over Moore at this point. But if or when the time comes, I’ll be on the Clausen bandwagon also. I’m with you, its all about winning.
Hrm...
Those numbers all look nice, but they don’t mean anything without something to compare them too.
Would you want me to do the same for Clausen?
My feelings are all based on the assumption that a QB can be very successful if he has accuracy and touch (which I don’t recall anybody saying Moore doesn’t have), coupled with a quick release.
Sure, Moore got sacked a few times, but the Jets and Eagles (neither of whom we face this year) are the only teams who send 7 regularly. Despite that, he still got the ball out in 2 secs, almost every time. No indecision there. The sacks were the sole result of blocking errors, not indecision or slow release or hemming or hawing on the QB’s part.
I’m not gonna take more hours reviewing other team’s QB’s to compare, if that’s what you’re talking about. But if it’ll convince you I’m on the right track, I’ll do Clausen in the Jets’ game. I’ve already deleted tape of previous games.
My whole raison d’etre for these posts is to highlight to the members here that Matt Moore is the real thing, the goods, the shit – and we oughta be behind him.
by bigdavis on Aug 23, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
That’s 2 rec’d posts in about the time of 10 matt moore releases. I don’t think we have any reason to be down on him. People can say oh but if we want to win we will have to face the eagles and the jets, and we may have to. But if we do we wil b ready for them and Moore will have moore starts under his belt :)
All fantastic points bd
I guess the only thing I can add is that there is a very “If you’re not with him you’re against him” attitude when it comes to the supporters of Matt Moore.
I think the vast majority of the community is neither one way or the other, they just want to see evidence from one of the two QBs that they are ‘the guy’. For you personally, and plenty of others they have seen enough from Matt Moore to declare him ‘the real thing’ and I see all the evidence that leads you to that conclusion, conversely I understand why there is a segment of the fan base who is still not convinced that he is the future of this team at the QB position.
I think Panthers’ fans in general have been burned by QBs enough to approach anyone, whether it be Moore or Clausen with a healthy measure of skepticism.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
That's a fair-minded summary, James.
I don’t mean to appear antagonistic. I feel as you, Rick, and others do – I just want to win, and for the best man to lead the way.
I always draw back from a guy who argues a point too long, because he just wants to be right, so i sure don’t want to turn into that. I was attempting to bring some facts, that I observed, to light, so that others who weren’t at the game, or couldn’t watch it, wouldn’t be apprehensive about Moore, because they saw some unappetizing final stats.
The devil is in the details.
Go, Panthers!
+1 Aussie.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Aug 24, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
"I guess the only thing I can add is that there is a very "If you’re not with him you’re against him" attitude when it comes to the supporters of Matt Moore."
Man, I hate to admit it and never realized it until now, but I think I personally might fall into that characterization. However it’s not of any ill will or any bad feelings toward my fellow Panther fans so I will try to explain. I just don’t understand what else Moore would have had to have done to be more widely welcomed and accepted as the unequivocable starter coming into camp. He’s been in the system for several years, he stepped in and played lights out at the end of last season, came into town and signed his RFA tender early, yet it seems many fans and most notably the national and local media seem to be real eager to write him off in the face of the hype surrounding the Panthers good fortune of having Clausen fall into their lap on draft day. Perhaps Clausen may indeed be the QB of the future but Moore is the QB of the present and IMHO I think he’s earned a little more respect and deference than he’s currently getting. Hopefully he’ll be able to use it as a source of additional motivation.
Let me make it clear, I’m not trying to be critical of anyone here or single anyone out, or speak for anyone else…but I think James has correctly hit on somthing here and I wanted to take a shot at explaining it. I’m behind this team and the fanbase 100% and I will always respect and have my fellow Panther’s Fans backs regardless of differring opinions.
by paydirt16 on Aug 24, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A TD pass in preseason would be nice.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Aug 29, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Wonderful Overview, very objective
Some quick thoughts:
I appreciate the optimism on Connor and agree. Many touted him as the “steal” of the draft when we got him. He has a head for the ball and is not afraid of stuffing that run during hsi years at Penn State. Unfortuantely his first year was tained by a knee injury and IR. Seoncd year, was “catching up” I expect more from him.
I am always worried about special teams. After watching the Minnesota and San Francisco preseason game last night, I am hopeful we also put a TON of emphasis on someone getting in the face of the receiver before he catches that ball and not give them a 5-10 yard pocket to squirt through.
Defensive Line looks hungry and ready. Meeks in in their ears and heads. Nice job Ron.
Moore is feeling the pressure of now being number 1, therefore Clausen doesn’t. He was coached by Weiss (?sp) and he does know offense and quarterbacks. Clausen will be our future provided he stays healthy.
I personally am 90% optomistic for upcoming Tennessee game. The Jets game was ugly but we kept it tight with the team touted to be this year’s favorites for super bowl champs (according to vegas). I will see just how they correct their issues….
Bill
It's hard to have someone in the face of the punt receiver
with Baker booming the damn thing so far. Seriously, he needs to work on adding hang-time and not padding his gross yardage average.
I’m good with Captain returning punts. He’s actually very good at it. I want to see Witherspoon actually get a KO return chance or two.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
He had pretty good hang time on most of those punts. Several were right around 5 seconds. I’d think it has more to do with the gunners being less physical and not getting out of their blocks. They also didn’t look very disciplined once they got to the returner.
A 5 second hang-time is great on a 45 yard punt. Not so much if it travels 62.
But you may be right. I wasn’t watching the gunners that closely, so if they weren’t getting off blocks, that’s a problem. If I’m not mistaken, we also didn’t have Francisco and Senn available, both of whom are excellent coverage guys. So maybe the coverage part will get better.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
Senn was number 57 right?
If so, he was in, saw him get blocked in the back a few times.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Aug 24, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Captain is our best option right now too.
But I will have to disagree that he is “very good” at it. In my opinion, he is average at best. Right now, I will take average. ;)
He plays way stronger than he looks apparently.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Aug 24, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not concerned
The Cowboys first team offense didn’t score a TD in there first 2 preseason games. And they’re supposed to be loaded on offense.
Defense looks incredible. Conner finally showed me why he was given the job.
Fourth and inches is the distance between obscurity and immortality.
I'm going to throw out a little more optimism...
1. Smoothie may be okay after all – 2 kickoffs, 2 touchbacks.
2. We were playing against the best defense in football, and the Ravens are up there as well. The offense (as currently staffed) is clearly not ready for that level of competion. The blitz packages are something for which there wasn’t any game planning. Gross did well, which was good to see after last week.
3. When we’re not emphasizing our best running game (including Double Trouble and Otah), the defense has nothing to fear except mediocre receivers. So, they bring the house. With the running attack back at full force, you can bet opposing LBs will be more reluctant to abandon their gaps. Play action then becomes a viable way to slow down penetration.
4. I do think Smitty will make a difference. If you have to double-team 89, that’s one less free blitzer.
Otherwise, I’m in total agreement with the pessimistic view on STs and some of the pessimism directed at the offense. Absolutely optimistic about he defense.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
You would think Davidson would have called more screens or draws to slow down the rush
But its preseason I know…don’t want to reveal too much…but still, why get your QB’s killed trying a 5 step drop or even play action when you know the blitz is coming on 3rd and long?
Good point. We had some real opportunities on screens we did try...
but just didn’t execute. If we get the timing and execution down on screens, it will have an impact. I don’t even remember a draw play being tried.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
From what I saw, T-Sutt got knocked off of his block and stumbled to try to make a catch. To me, it was Moore’s fault for not waiting a little bit longer for the screen to set up. And if the screen didn’t set up, then Moore should’ve looked elsewhere.
The Jets rushed 7 on that play (see BigD's post above)...
it’s nobody’s fault whether he got hit or tripped. Moore did the right thing.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
It was set up perfectly as it was.
There were 7 rushing, and the entire left side of the field was open for Sutton. Problem was thet LB #54 knocked Sutton off-balance on his way in, and Sutton stumbled backwards.
We’ve got to quit trying to blame failures, and bad breaks, on Moore.
See my post from 4:01 above.
True, but at some point the QB has to take responsibility.
Whether it be Moore or Clausen.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Aug 24, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
What are you talking about?
I said in a previous post that Moore, in his post-game interview, never once laid blame or responsibility on WR’s and TE’s dropping his passes – took the high road, and said he had to play better. That’s taking responsibility, just as he learned it from Jake.
In the play in question, it was plain as day that Moore timed the screen perfectly (as did his blockers) to suck the 7-man blitz in – and the WR set left also took his CB out of the play, towards the middle of the field. Had Sutton stayed on his feet, the lob pass was right in his hands, with a clear field in front of him. If that had happened, you and James, etc would be singing the praises of Moore for a great play, of Davidson for a great call, and Sutton for a great run of 30+ yards.
But he stumbles, after being bumped by their blitzing LB.
So now you say Moore should take the responsibility??
No, on that particular play it was Sutton's fault.
And I’m not saying Moore is shirking responsibility. I think he’s doing well leading the team in fact. What I’m saying is that at some point an offense’s failure has to fall on the QB’s shoulder. You need a QB who can make an offense around him good, and make plays and score points. We’re not doing that right now. Clausen isn’t either, so don’t think I’m picking on one QB. However Clausen isn’t the starter.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Aug 29, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm down on the offense
I don’t have time to post a lot of why right now, but regardless of the the excuses being floated around, I want to see some positive performances from the O. And until I do, I get the feeling it will be the same mediocre or poor performances from years past and the excuses from years past about not having the 2nd WR etc etc.
Agreed
If we don’t pick up the pace against Tennessee, what then will the excuse be?
The sad thing is we don’t even need a WR to be stellar, we just need one that’s consistent. I would be just fine with a Ricky Proehl type receiver who is just consistent every game. Never picked up big numbers, but he didn’t have to. And when you think about it, after we lost him we haven’t found an answer for it.
Could technically say Keyshawn was the answer, but he only was here for one season sadly.
In two games, a rookie who hasn't played WR in 5 years has 4 catches , 2 for first downs, and this is what you say:
Sure, on paper he caught 2 of 2 passes, but his route running wasn’t very crisp, he didn’t get very good separation and one of those receptions was willed into happening by Jimmy Clausen on a broken play.
I thought this was the Monday morning optimist?
Muffed punts are glaring errors that everyone sees, obviously. But am I the only one who is actually encouraged by Edwards’ play at WR? I thought his routes looked good.
So far, I’d say Armanti’s biggest problem is one that is a recurring theme here in the Jeff Davidson era: misused. Edwards certainly isn’t the first player for our awesome OC to not know how to utilize.
Let’s see him in the slot with the 1st team, in a wildcat formation or returning kickoffs not punts.
by dudemanhey on Aug 23, 2010 1:54 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm souring on Davidson as well
but he has the whole ‘Where not revealing our hand’ excuse in the preseason. As if a doesn’t just need to see film from last season to know what we are going to do. I’ll believe the 4 WR sets when I see them in the regular season. Honestly I don’t need fancy plays, it would just be nice to see a play that fooled the defense…you know, where you say ‘That was the perfect call for that defensive play’. When the last time we said that?
Maybe i'm just an asshole....
But to me, a big, fat OC just doesn’t make good sense to begin with.
Davidson looks like he’d be tough pressed to run a sub 10-second 40 yard dash. What could a big, fat slow man possibly know about Offfense? He looks like an offensive line coach, not an offensive playbook genius.
Let’s hope the “We’re not revealing our hand” excuse is the real deal thus far this preseason. However, showing a wildcat look in the preseason would just give opposing Defenses something else to spend practice time game planning for — which in turn gives them LESS time to game plan for double trouble running down their throats! I say why wait?
What has his weight got to do with anything?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I'd trust a fat man to coach up blocking schemes,
or coach how to swim move around an OL and pursue the QB,
or to sell me a polish sausage with peppers and onions,
but to draw up an offensive playbook and coach elite athletes about running routes, doing things on the field that he doesn’t look like he was EVER capable of doing himself? If i was a player i’d have an easier time respecting a coach with a physique like Ron Zook than Jeff “The Belly” Davidson. (especially considering how shitty the play calling seems consistently)
There are plenty of fat coaches at the helms of productive offenses
Andy Reid perhaps? Mike Holmgren sure had some productive offenses…
I don’t see the correlation between weight and ability to design an offense. You’re never doing to be able to sell that one to me. Not to mention, he isn’t teaching elite WRs how to run routes… Tyke Tolbert is.
Oh and by the way… Jeff Davidson is not fat. Look at this picture from training camp…
He has a very athletic physique for a man of his height and bone structure. He looks to me like he is more likely to rip someones head off than rip open a bag of potato chips.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Sorry, but the argument that Davidson can't call offense because of his build is moving from the ridiculous to the sublime.
I understand being upset because you think Edwards is being used the wrong way, but that’s grasping at straws.
The Colts seem to be doing okay with Tom Moore:
The Titans had a 2,000 yard rusher:
Marty Mornhinweg and the Eagles are always dangerous:
Pittsburgh had one of the best offenses in the league last year:
I don’t think I need photographic evidence for Charlie Weis, Mike Holmgren.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Thank you for the restraint re: Weis and Holmgren, James.
… and I agree totally that what someone looks like has nothing to do with their ability to design an offense. It’s about evaluating talent, creating plays to use it, and having good position coaches to teach fundamentals and how to run plays. I would welcome a lady as OC if she had the knack for offensive game strategy. Actually, I’d just welcome a lady, period.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
Ron Meeks sure couldn't bring down a ball carrier...
but he’s a darn good defensive coordinator.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I feel you, Dude...
But I think there’s something to be said for playing the preseason a little close to the vest. Besides, our playcalling’s never been terribly cerebral or used to fool the opposing defenses, I don’t think. I think our offensive mindset is very old-school; i.e. “We’ll give you the playbook, now all you gotta do it stop it” kind of mentality. Which would play to our strengths as far as our personnel. We have some very, very talented and athletic folks on the offensive side of the ball who are just going to beat people to the spot and break tackles. We don’t necessarily NEED a fancier, more free-wheeling style of offense. But I could absolutely see a few wrinkles thrown in there to break up the defense when they get into a comfort zone against our playcalling.
by The Kackalack Kid on Aug 23, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
The screen called to Sutton, on 3rd and 10, with 7 men rushing, was the PERFECT call.
He just couldn’t stay on his feet to be able to pick up the 30+ yds available. (See “Play 13” above)
Sometimes bad things happen to good people.
My prediction (you heard it here first, and throw it in my face if I’m wrong): the offense scores 28+ against the Titans this week, and we all go off humming a happy tune.
I'll be sure to throw it in your face
if you are wrong, but it would be real nice if you weren’t. ; )
"The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity." - Lewis Grizzard
by ThePanthers! on Aug 23, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok - here's the deal:
A cream puff for me if the Panthers score 28+ vs the Titans – a crow pie if they don’t.
Okay I'll keep that in mind as I'm watching the game
hoping the Panthers only score 27.
"The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity." - Lewis Grizzard
by ThePanthers! on Aug 24, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Titans' D looked tough last night. Reminded me of our own in that
no big names kinda way. I’ll be happy if we score 20, the way things have been going. I’m also looking forward to seeing how we stop the great “I’m going for 2500 this year” CJ. I wouldn’t be real upset if there were a couple of gold caps left laying on the field. That is, of course, unless I draft him this Saturday.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
+1, but...
If we can’t use the guy properly, it just doesn’t matter how talented he is. It’s a sad fact, but it is a fact. We need to think about replacing him immediately. And I was so excited about this guy…
by The Kackalack Kid on Aug 23, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Replacing Armanti?
We’d be better off replacing our OC
by dudemanhey on Aug 23, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree.... two 1,100 yard rushers are worthless if you can't use a converted quarterback.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I sense Sarcasm...
"The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity." - Lewis Grizzard
by ThePanthers! on Aug 23, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Just a touch ; )
Makes me think if Jake Delhomme went to UNC all his problems would be because of the system.
There comes a time a player needs to make plays wherever he can even if it doesn’t play to his strengths. Jon Beason said that moving to OLB wasn’t what he was used to, but just a new chance to be brilliant.
Armanti Edwards is a very exciting prospect and project, but I find it a little ridiculous that we’re talking about firing Jeff Davidson… the coordinator who gave us a top 3 rushing attack in 2009.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Don’t you also find it ridiculous to be talking about replacing a project player immediately?
In fact i couldn’t tell exactly who The KK was wanting to “replace” because Armanti isn’t quite in a position to be “replaced”. He hasn’t even earned a spot on the roster, and is where on the WR depth chart? 5 or 6?
If the team is going to “replace” some body, the OC makes more sense than a rookie they just drafted trying to earn a spot on the roster.
Yes.... it's too early on both sides if we're talking about replacing anyone.
That being said, it far more difficult to replace an OC who can run a successful zone blocking scheme and good run plays for a run first team than a 5th or 6th WR.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Two 1,100 yard rushers are worthless if you can't put it all together and win.
The Panthers finished 8-8 last season with those two 1,100 yard rushers. With the talent that the team has in it’s offense our OC is a bit of an under achiever. He has been unable to properly utilize are receivers and tight ends. And is as predictable as it gets.
Armanti is just the lastest example of these inabilities. However, it is only 2 preseason games in and there is plenty of time for Davidson to open up the playbook and use all the new tools on O.
I was merely responding to The KK saying we should “replace” him. And asking if by “him” he meant Edwards or Davidson.
The QB turned the ball over 500 times.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
It would be foolish to give up on Armanti already
For a player in his position, I really don’t think you can start to be hard on him until his 3rd year in the league.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
what the Panthers need
is someone to return punts this year. If Edwards takes 3 years to develope that is way too long.
Great post, James.
Concise and insightful. Can’t help but agree on just about everything you said.
by The Kackalack Kid on Aug 23, 2010 2:15 PM EDT reply actions
Guy's a little big to be getting much air, isn't he?
Or are you saying he covers as much ground as a 757? ;)
by The Kackalack Kid on Aug 23, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Also hoping he keeps up his newfound mean streak
akin to the passengers on the flight dubbed “Con-Air” haha
GSO
Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes...
Someone said once of Deion Sanders: “It’s said that water covers 75% of the earth. That guy covers the other 25%.”
by The Kackalack Kid on Aug 23, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh now that is good!
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Aug 24, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope by the end of the season
we’re calling him “Con-tact” from all the tackles he racks up.
Founding Member of the Unofficial LaFan Club, #11 Brandon LaFell
by John Chilton on Aug 23, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, he doesn't seem quite as "thick" as Morgan, but he can hit.
I don’t remember him ever missing a tackle.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
Morgan was 6'2", 245
Connor goes 6’2", 231.
Close enough.
Coincidence?
Dan Morgan & Dan Connor grew up in the same area out side of Philly.
Morgan moved while in H.S; both – 55
oh c'mon...
…he reminds us of Dan Morgan because he’s white. ;-)
"Put the bunny back in the box"
My favorite line from Con-Air
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
"Why couldn't you put the bunny back in the box"
Great movie…
My favorite part: when Cyrus throws the cig on the gasoline and the dude goes “CY!” and Cyrus says “O’nara”
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
my thoughts and a link
I love the Dan Connor coverage. Thanks. I got him in my fantasy football league along with Patrick Willis. We get 1 pt per tackle. I like it. I’m not concerned about Armanti Edwards because if Jarrett is good enough to stay in Carolina, Edwards will never be more than a #4. Wasn’t Golden Tate available when we traded up for Edwards?
Here is Peter King’s take on the Panthers:
Carolina: Been saying it all offseason: Matt Moore’s no fluke. I think he’ll be an efficient 16-game player who won’t throw a lot of interceptions and who will be 64-, 65-percent accurate. This is a running, eat-the-clock team, so I don’t see Moore throwing for 4,000 yards, but he’ll be a very good backup guy in the 12th round … And if wideout Brandon LaFell’s there in the last round, he’ll be a good risk. Coaches love him.
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/08/22/mmqb/1.html#ixzz0xSXEOq5S
Tate was off the board when we took Edwards.
Next best available WRs were:
- Taylor Price
- Mardy Gilyard
- Mike Williams
- Marcus Easley
- Jacoby Ford
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
thanks
i think i was thinking of gilyard, but either way, with jarrett, lafell and smitty, barnidge, king and rosario, d-will and beef stew…it’s on to 30 pts a game. i can’t wait. and let’s not forget Hardy’s push for defensive rookie of the year…you heard it hear first, (if he starts).
by usana_gaines on Aug 23, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree on Hardy
I think Armanti Edwards is going to be absolutely fine, he’s just a project.
Jacoby Ford may have had less upside, but it did hurt a little to see him as a weapon in the Raiders passing game, and him being their primary punt returner when he’s 100% healthy.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I was shocked when the Panthers traded up and took Armanti at #89
I really like Jacoby Ford too. He was drafted in the 4th round, would he have been available if the panthers had not traded up and waited?
Ford will be more of a deep threat when it’s all said and done. I think Armanti Edwards can develop that Wes Welker like quality to his game after bulking up in an NFL weight program and developing better hands.
Talent now vs. possibly more talent later. One of those oft occurring ‘bird in the hand’ scenarios.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I like Edwards
But I think if we were gonna trade up we really needed some talent now. Not talent later.
trading up into a late 3rd round pick
is NOT a place you would typically find talent NOW. The fact the 3rd round had the talent it did this year is a statistical outlier not likely to happen again for awhile.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Agreed. We don't know what he'll be yet.
The heir to Smitty? The next Welker? Lee Evans? Too soon to tell.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
Or
he could be the next Jarrett great potential no results. I’m not saying Edwards will never amount to anything or that he doesn’t work hard, but the Jets game was a disappointing showing.
"I kinda just sling it" -Jake
by bleed_in_blue on Aug 23, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Gilyard was just as explosive a player,
who did have experience in the slot and returning kicks. I would love for Armanti to shut up everyone except the App St. fans, but I absolutely hate the price we paid for him. Dozens of players are converted WR’s in the NFL, but only a handful make an impact. I think Armanti has as good a chance as any, but was his trick play potential in our offense really worth not getting someone who could make a more immediate impact?
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Aug 24, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it was a home town pick.
We used a 2nd rounder on a project.
I’ll back him to the hilt, but I’m not particularly impressed with the draft pick.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Why don't we all just say we got Greg Hardy in the 2nd round, and Edwards in the 6th?
There.
Everybody happy now?
Great point
I like to evaluate the draft class as a whole, and I know there are plenty of people who hoped we could get Greg Hardy in the 3rd round and Edwards in the 6th or 7th round… the roles are just reversed.
It’s easy to fall into the trap of ‘we spent a 2nd rounder on him’ but we also got an extra pick in the draft that allows for LaFell now, and Edwards to develop later.
The best teams are always drafting 2-3 years down the road and the 2010 draft was an example of that. I don’t really think Armanti was just a hometown pick, because we could have had Cam Thomas (UNC), Linval Joseph (ECU) or one of the many other local players who filled greater needs too. They likes Edwards a lot, many teams did… now we’ll just have to wait and see if he can develop.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Somebody asked Gantt about drafting Armanti today:
Would’ve been gone in next 12 picks. RT @michaelbfinch: Would Armanti make team if Hurney hadn’t given up so much, drafted him way too soon?
His athletic ability is undeniable, and what he accomplished in college proves this kid knows how to find the end zone. People are just expecting way too much way too soon. We knew he was a project when we drafted him. Expecting “project Armanti” to be complete by the second preseason game is unrealistic at best.
Founding Member of the Unofficial LaFan Club, #11 Brandon LaFell
by John Chilton on Aug 24, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Gantt isn't the most reliable source.
Pretty sure he’d allow Edwards to sleep with his wife and he’s raise the offspring – if she’d let him.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I know Gantt likes Armanti, he went to App
but he’s usually not one to paint a rosy picture. And if Hurney felt they had to trade up to get him I’m guessing they didn’t think he would last much longer either.
Founding Member of the Unofficial LaFan Club, #11 Brandon LaFell
by John Chilton on Aug 24, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually yeah. :)
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Aug 29, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Gilyard was just as explosive a player,
who did have experience in the slot and returning kicks. I would love for Armanti to shut up everyone except the App St. fans, but I absolutely hate the price we paid for him. Dozens of players are converted WR’s in the NFL, but only a handful make an impact. I think Armanti has as good a chance as any, but was his trick play potential in our offense really worth not getting someone who could make a more immediate impact?
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Aug 24, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Edwards vs Cody
I think Edwards will be fine given time but, my thoughts are if we were going to trade up we should have taken Terrence “MT” Cody. He would have made a good Defense that much better and had an Imediate impact, rather that having to wait. Do you remember the play last week where he manhandled Kalil with ONE ARM while he tackled the running back with the other? He would have been a steal. No one would have been able to run up the gut with him there. Which I am afraid is still a weakness.
Everything looks better in hindsight. Lets give Edwards a year to get into his game and fit in the offense. He doesn’t need to be on the field really at all at this point during the regular season, but after a year I think he will become a breakout star.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
+1
The Panthers know he is a project, and anyone who expects him to be anything else is a fool.
There is no harm in getting him some preseason work at PR when the games don’t count, just to see if he could contribute at all this season. You have to think, we are going to be using at spot on the 53 to hold onto him anyway, they might as well get a look to see if he is even capable of contributing in a minimum role.
He will be on the 53, he will probably spend the first half of the season deactivated. He may see spot days where he gets a jersey due to injury, or a matchup they are looking to exploit.
He needs at least 1 year of NFL conditioning to add some weight and pure muscle to his frame. He also needs to study study study and practice everything about being a WR and a potential kick/punt returnman.
PATIENCE.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Cody...
…has serious conditioning issues, which are an outcropping of poor practice habits and questionable dedication to being the best. Yes, whenever he’s on the field he can cause problems…but how often can he be on the field?
Besides, Armanti is a character guy…something for which Cody isn’t really known.
I'm not as down on Edwards as I am on LaFell...
Edwards is learning an entirely new position ub the pros…and that’s gotta be pretty darn tough…don’t know of too many guys outside of Julian Edelman, Joshua Cribbs and a few others who’ve done that successfully…
But to be honest, I have been very disappointed with LaFell. I know it’s early and all, and we definitely should give him time, but I can’t help the disappointment I have with him. He was supposedly having a great Training camp and impressing everyone, but his game tape hasn’t been great. The knocks on him as a college player have been pretty evident in his playing time…has small hands and is prone to drops, not the fastest off the line, not very elusive, not great deep threat…those have been the weaknesses that I have seen in two games. Even though I was a bigger fan of other WRs in the draft (such as Eric Decker who played lights out against the Lions), after we got LaFell, I was hoping that he may have been the next Moose, or could’ve even taken over Jarrett on the depth chart, but it just doesn’t look like it so far. Really hope he shines in this next game and can be at least a viable 3rd down receiver…
Its just to early to expect anything out of rookie WRs
Bar none.
Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers
Reserving my Feeling until the Season starts
This is just preseason until we get into games it counts ill give the team a break. Yes the special teams and offense struggled but Our offense is throwing a lot more then it would normally and Armanti will not be our PR when the season starts. If we struggle for the first part of the season ill start to worry but as for now there is time to improve
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
I'd just like to point out that Cap played outside all last year and did great.
He didn’t start covering the slot ‘til this year. Just ’cause he had one bad preseason game on the outside doesn’t mean he can’t do it. He’s already proven he can. He shut down Randy Moss on every play he covered him last year. Can we give him a break on his first preseason game of the year please? Let him shake off the rust. Everyone has a bad game from time to time. Besides, while he was out of position on a couple other plays, I’m still not convinced he wasn’t pushed on that TD pass.
stuff 'bout stuff.
I think people are remembering incorrectly
Moss was covered by Gamble all game last year… watch the highlights here: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009121308/2009/REG14/panthers@patriots#tab:watch
Pause at 25 seconds. That’s Gamble on Moss.
Pause at 1:09 (run play). But still it’s Gamble on Moss
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
From what I saw in Max Hall tonight, I'd pick him up if the Cardinals cut him. He looks pretty useful.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Most people will remember that I was a HUGE Max Hall proponent as a late round QB. Of course, that was before we got Clausen… but I agree totally.
Judging from Darin Gantt’s tweet:
I’ve gone from thinking 4 QBs to maybe just 2.
Maybe both Cantwell and Pike are on their way out (or try to stash them on the PS).
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Honestly we know both Moore and Clausen will be our QB up the future. Pike and Cantwell have little to no shot. I wouldn’t be upset if we let them go and used the spots for two other players. Id sign one to the practice squad and keep Eric Moore.
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
I'm just wary of over cutting at the QB position
I don’t ever want a Vinny Testaverde situation again.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
There’s always Armanti. He can’t catch or return punts so he could be our reserve QB haha
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
I actually like that idea. Doesn't use a roster spot that way.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
actually I do too...
he should be practicing some wildcat plays anyway this season, so if worse comes to worse and we actually needed a 3rd QB Armanti can go out there and hand off, run, and throw slants for a few games. If not I’m sure we could coax Jeff Garcia away from the Omaha Nighthawks.
Founding Member of the Unofficial LaFan Club, #11 Brandon LaFell
by John Chilton on Aug 24, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
haha there was a bit of truth in what i wrote though. I remember Smith saying him and Armanti was messing round and Armanti threw him a tight little spiral and he was impressed.
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Do you remember where you saw that?
Armanti is a better QB than he is PR no doubt.
I’m confident that he could be used like Pat White was for the Dolphins last year, and be effective. I seriously doubt that the Panthers have any intentions of using him like that though, and i think that is unfortunate.
Cantwell will likely stay.
I think we could stash Pike on the practice squad. And Eric Moore will take Hilee Taylor’s spot as the fifth DE, Eric Norwood is likely a linebacker for now.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Aug 24, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Cantwell does nothing for me. He has no 'moxie'.
He looks like a million dollars physically – tall, big, strong arm, but he has no pocket presence at all. I’d be more than happy to get rid of him.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Right. You've got the chance to develop a QB here.
Moore is the lame duck, in my opinion. Clawesome is your starter of the future. The #3 is your backup of the future.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
yup lock out looming Matt Moore puts up Brady , Brees, or Manning numbers or he is gone. 2012 Clausen opens up as our Franchise QB
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Seems to be a lot of opinions that Clausen is destiny's darling, by default, and that Moore is out, whether he does well or not.
As I read it from some posters, if Moore plays lights out, they can’t afford him, and if he doesn’t, they don’t resign him and Clausen takes over.
Fait accompli. Damned if you do; damned if you don’t. Que sera; que sera. Done deal. No way out. Argghh.
All hail the Golden Boy!
its not out of the question that they keep Moore but with the Lock out , coaching staff and other key players in question he doesn’t fit high on the list. Clausen doesn’t exactly have a big contract so nothing is written in stone like Brandford’s case.
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
The financials put the Panthers in a tough spot
It really is, like you say a ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t scenario’. In hindsight, the Panthers waited too long to see what Moore has.
I was a big proponent of a performance based extension for Moore which covered both him as a player, and the organization based on the fact we haven’t seen him for a full season.
Now Moore is going into his last year in what is easily the worst year to be a prospective free agent Panther with Williams, Kalil, Davis and Marshall all needing new contracts.
If Moore, Kalil and Williams all make the Pro Bowl, then who do you resign? I know it’s a far out scenario, but a very plausible one. We can afford one easily, possibly two… but all three is difficult based solely on Moore and Williams being in skill positions, and Mangold just setting a high bar for Pro Bowl center contracts.
All I know is that I’m glad I don’t have to make the decisions, and I’m sure the Panthers have much more talented people than me who can tiptoe around the financials to make it work.
All I can hope is if we end up losing Moore to free agency that he is able to find a team where he can start and flourish (because he deserves it) and that Clausen can really be ‘the guy’ (because we as fans deserve it).
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
really we don’t know much of anything about cap or contracts considering they are working on all of that and also extending the season which will increase both the cap and contracts in all likely hood. As much of a knock Big Cat took for letting go so many veterans he has set up the team to keep as many core guys as possible.
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Kalil and Williams.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I agree, Kalil and Williams over Moore and Davis.
If we continue to play at this level, I believe our defense has shown that Davis is actually expendable (who’d have thought?). No one wants to see him leave, and he certainly will bring a lot to the table when/if he returns, but I don’t believe we absolutely need him either.
There’s a similar situation brewing between Clausen and Moore. I actually think Moore will want to resign anyway, but if camp were to open up and Clausen performs as good as or better than Moore, it’s time to make a trade. It’s the Chargers situation with Rivers and Brees that I’m predicting here, and that’s really not a bad place to be. We don’t want it to devolve into a Hasselback/Favre problem (or even Rodgers/Favre).
On the other hand, we’ve also shown the massive drop off between Kalil and our next best center (actually, doesn’t Schwartz play center too?). The same thing goes for RBs. I don’t care how good Sutton and Goodson look, they just simply aren’t the same caliber as Williams and finding that kind of talent is rare at best.
Davis as great as he was last year has back to back injurys which is scary i still think he is easily the best linebacker we have besides Beason. Beason even thinks Davis is a freak but with his injury and Norwood moving to LB he is more expendable then K & W. Moore is playing for his NFL future this year. Rather its with the Panthers or another team. Plenty of teams could still use a QB. Arizona comes to mind and Minnesota after Farve finally hangs it up. Its nice to think about Moore and Clausen and Brees/Rivers although it could easily turn into Anderson/Quinn neither guys are really proven. but i would agree out of the 4 mentioned above K & W are the most important to resign. We have no alternative at center and Kalil is a pro bowl caliber player and could be in Carolina for the next 10+ years. If we go to 18 games as it seems having two stud RBs will defiantly help out in that process. It really will depend on if Fox stays or goes. The new regime if/when they come in will defiantly effect the direction of the team.
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Aug 24, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I loved Hall as a late round QB.
I liked him a heck of a lot better than Tony Pike.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Aug 24, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I never got to see him play.
Last night though he looked like a QB that ‘got it’. Knew the playbook; where to go with the ball; how to handle the pass rush; and got rid of the ball quickly.
I didn’t see too much of his arm strength, but he looked comfortable making the throws asked of him – more than enough zip and very good accuracy.
Put it this way – he was more impressive than Cantwell. Obviously we’ve yet to see Pike.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
There's no need to keep either Cantwell or Pike
Armanti can be the 3rd “emergency” QB if we get to that point. Cantwell and Pike will just take up roster spots that can be used on guys who can contribute on ST.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
I'm trying to be optimistic here
Ok, I still haven’t seen the second preseason game and I’m not in panic mode yet… it’s still preseason… the second games been played and the defense is a standout.
They’ve shown that we should have no fear for their production… Peppers who?
The Oline has gained some major experience against a blitz heavy team. Who else in the NFL is going to send 4-6 rushers almost every down? Our Oline has seen it now and the coaches can evaluate who adapted and who didn’t… who stayed in their lane and caught their blocks and who missed… who needs remedial training with the sleds and 1-on-1 drills and who doesn’t.
PR is still in experiment mode and like was mentioned, AE was trying to field punts from someone other than a Panther… a learning curve to be sure.
Does it matter if the Panthers win a preseason game? Do the coaches even game plan for those? It’s preseason and the guys are being evaluated and schemes are being tried.
Rewatching the game with a open mind (sober as well) The panthers O while bad wasn’t call off the season bad like some have stressed. Lafell can acctually catch as long as nobody touches him. Oline while they looked bad really wasn’t prepared for the Jets who have some of the most insane blitz schemes in the leauge. Moore had plenty of nice passes that receivers just dropped. If we put up the same performance against the Titans i will be more concerned but even then we are throwing the ball 40+ this preseason. Those numbers will drop to around 30 when the season starts and Steve Smith will be targeted 1/3 of the time. Our defense was simply superb the sudden change of possession on numerous times and each time the defense responded. Giving up 3 field goals with the turnovers and field position they were in was stellar. If our D can play anywhere near that level in the regular season we will be fine. With the running game and Smith we should be in the playoff hunt.
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
I feel like there are two kinds of teams during the preseason
Team A: Does whatever it takes to win the games and this typically happens when they have a waning fan base and need to drum up some excitement in a hurry.
Team B: Doesn’t care about the W/L and are more concerned with looking at all their players and emphasizing weak areas to ensure they know the full skill set of their team when the regular season rolls around.
There have been years where the Panthers are ‘Team A’ but, not this year.
- Traditionally the offensive line has struggled with 3-4 defenses: We’re playing three of them.
- We struggled with run defense last season: We’re playing 2009’s 5th, 1st, 2nd and 19th ranked rushing attacks
- We have QBs who need more experience passing: We’re throwing the ball at an inordinate rate.
Basically the Panthers are working their weak areas to death, and while it can be ugly we’re also seeing that our weaknesses still aren’t really that bad given the conditions.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James Dator on Aug 24, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Now that's an intelligent, objective summary of how things REALLY are.
You summed it up perfectly. Much more articulate than my ’sky’s not falling’ attempt, below. Rec’d it.
What appear to be weaknesses now are being addressed, to prevent them glaring as such when the real play begins.
The Panthers are “Team B,” and tough if somebody doesn’t like it.
(Plus, it makes us bigger underdogs in future betting lines.)
Yeah, the sky isn't falling.
I think the Observer said something like the Panthers had averaged about 40 passes per game in the exhibitions so far. This is simply because the coaches have got to try and figure out who can catch the damn ball and hold onto it. (That hasn’t yet been decided.)
No way is that even close to our game plan when the regular season starts. When Double Trouble are back there for more than a quarter, defenses have to respect them, and play action passes become available. Then our offense goes into high gear, instead of the Neutral it’s spinning its wheels in at present.
Yup i don’t see how panthers fans can stress when we haven’t really seen anything of what our Offense will really look like come the regular season nor will we until the season starts. Smith , Otah , and Stewart all 3 will not see the field until game 1 at the Giants. Even Special teams is a bit of a stretch. Armanti at this rate will more than likely not have a helmet when the season starts. Captain will more than likely be our return man. Armanti can spend the first half of the season improving and maybe he gets on the field if not they will continue to work with him. He was never really drafted to have a immediate impact while a quick transition would of been nice it really wasn’t a likely. He was drafted off of potential of what he could become.
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Plus... There's this:
From Steve Reed’s Rapid Reports"
23 minutes ago – QB Matt Moore on the return of WR Steve Smith: “Steve makes such a difference. That guy flies around, and the defense has to keep one eye on him at all times. But we’ve still got to make plays regardless of who’s out there.” Panthers RapidReports
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/team/CAR
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
Remove Steve Smith’s numbers from Delhomme’s what’s left?
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Thats not all that fair
Of course a QB is going to have most of his passes go towards the number 1 guy, especially when the team has had questions about number two almost every year. If you subtract the number one receivers numbers from their respective QB’s, the QB’s dont have as good of numbers. It hurts even more when you play on a running team and will probably never get close to breaking 4000 yards passing in one season.
"The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity." - Lewis Grizzard
by ThePanthers! on Aug 24, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It wasn’t a dig at jake it was more a reflection of our offense without Smith. Steve Smith is our WR corp. Without him we got nothing
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Armanti has caught most of the passes thrown his way this preseason.
He has 4 receptions for 32 yards. He has had a catch for a first down in both preseason games; 1 for 13 yards (where he ran through a tackler for extra yards) and 1 for 15 yards against NY during a 2-minute drill. The only drop i can think of is the one against the Ravens where Cantwell led him high and away and Armanti got leveled — would have been an outstanding play to hang on.
The two PR errors were blatant and fresh in every body’s minds, but as a WR Edwards is looking encouraging.
when i see Armanti make those catches with 1st string dbs covering him then u make have something. He wanted no part of the ball on both PR returns. He simply looked like a man who had never done it before.
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
I too, would love to see Armanti in the slot with the 1st string
see how he does look against the starters in the NFL. I bet he is crafty enough to get open. But i’d be surprised to see him used that way this weekend.
My hope in posting the quote from Moore about Smitty was...
that everyone would realize how much he changes the dynamics of the offense. If he’s double teamed or safety cheats to his side, it opens things up a lot more for other WRs. I wasn’t leading into a Delhomme debate or Armanti debate, just trying to point out just how much of a positive difference he’ll make.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
i got your point and Smith defiantly opens things up for the offense but no matter how many guys he draws to his side it doesn’t make guys run crisper routes or get better hands. Many guys have failed to take advantage of just how much attention 89 draws
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
Not only drawing attention from other recievers
He also will be making plays himself, running good routes & catching passes.
I wasnt trying to argue for Delhomme
cause everyone knows I would lose that debate…
He was a good player, may not have been the best performer, when it came to being a captain and a locker room guy; I’m just trying to remember the good times.
But back to the topic at hand: Steve Smith is AMAZING. Anything else?
"The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity." - Lewis Grizzard
by ThePanthers! on Aug 24, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup i don’t see how panthers fans can stress when we haven’t really seen anything of what our Offense will really look like come the regular season nor will we until the season starts.
Mostly because this is the same thing that happened last year in the preseason, and it led to a mostly awful season. I’m worried the same is being foretold here.
by SlayerGhaleon on Aug 25, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Last year isn’t this year. Were not trying to win this preseason we are working on our faults and testing the waters. These games dont count and we are using the time to work on our passing game and return game. Testing players at different positions. The regular season won’t have nowhere near as much flux. Add in Smith , Otah , and Stewart and take away armanti in the return game and it will look much different
"I’m the UFC heavyweight champion and I will be until the day I decide I don’t want to be. And that isn’t anytime soon." - Brock Lesnar
by MMA_PITBULL on Aug 25, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Finally had to post.
Slightly off topic, but I’ve been reading you guys all year and I don’t know how I would get my Panthers fix without this site. Jaxon and James the Aussie, you guys rock, as do all the other CSR fans. I think I’m the only Panthers fan in the state of South Dakota, and I don’t get to catch a whole lot of games up here. You guys keep me caught up on what’s going on, thanks everybody!
by SDcarolinafan on Aug 27, 2010 10:10 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
hey welcome to the site
you can catch some games online if you cant make it to a bar. justintv.com is one site. there is another one that is pretty good. its atdhe.com or something like that i cant remember. ask on the open thread tomorrow and guys will give you some sites to watch the game on.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
OH!
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Tiquan Underwood, cut on Super Bowl eve, is a Patriot again
- Woman at Giants Super Bowl parade can’t wait to see Mark Sanchez (video)
- Bradying is sweeping the nation (for the next 48 hours or so)
- Knowshon Moreno charged with DUI; has a license plate that reads ‘SAUCED’
- Giants fan who won $50,000 on Super Bowl safety will donate winnings to charity
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
