Carolina Panthers in 2010... Our biggest weakness, and the direction we are headed
If you had to point to an area of this team and say something negative then you would be pointing at the DT position. You wouldn’t say WR because we have been gettin by with just 1 forever. You wouldn’t say QB because we have never had 1 anyway(as far as the rest of the sports world considers). You wouldn’t say secondary because they were 4th last year. Can’t say LBs because they’re deep. You might say DE but there’s too much potential there. So what’s left? RB,OL,FB,TE,DT. 2 of the 5 are top notch. The other 2 would be pretty much pointless to talk about. Then you have an important position to our team with nothing but unproven players manning it. So what are you going to choose to talk about?
To say they are bad or our biggest weakness is freaking dumb. Seriously its stupid. Just because they haven’t proven anything yet doesn’t mean they can't and won’t. They haven’t even had a shot so how can they be judged? They are under Baker, Meeks and Fox now. I have confidence in these 3 coaches. They will get the best out of these players. And what these players did on bad teams in bad systems is moot. They start fresh now. Maybe under the trio of Fakeeks(maybe?) they can flourish.
The DTs we lost were friggin NOBODYS! BUMS! They can be replaced. Guys act like we lost Pat and Kevin Williams. We didn’t. We RELEASED 2 guys who nobody outside of the Carolinas knows of. Ask a fan of the Cowboys who Kemo or Lewis is and they will say…WHO!? Why because they are non factors. Why shouldn't we have released them? Kemo is a fat mess that tore his achilles during a jog. We can't afford to risk that roster spot on him. Nevermind the fact that he is old. Damione Lewis is a bum. He had 4 TFL's all season. And half of a sack. Just half of one. And then he had like 41 tackles period. (using Ricks stats here...thanks Rick) Hollis Thomas was within 8 tackles of him with 33 and also notched 4 TFL's. Thomas played 366 less snaps than Lewis. That is pathetic. To let an old fat guy just come in and show you up like that...eww. We had to release this guy. And then you have Thomas who is fat and old and on some kind of banned substance. He was not resigned because he is just a fat guy. We have one of those at the very least. We can buy another one if need be.
We have nowhere to go but up. I’m so tired of people doubting these guys give it a break please. If I’m wrong and we have the worst DL in the NFL then fine rub it in my face after week 9 or so. Untill then though it would be nice to see some support for our coaches and players from the fan base. Why doubt them when you could believe in them? They have given no reason to be doubted. You could say they have given you no reason to believe in them. But what about Fox? I damn sure believe in Fox. What about Meeks (not you Silver) and his scheme? I love the pressure he strives for from the front 4. What about Baker and his intense demand for perfection? He had me sold from day 1.
i'm on board with the direction this team is going. And frankly im just flat out excited about it. From where I sit I see the team doing this...Having two fast Safetys covering the top of the field. Two guys that can create turnovers. Two guys that are better than most Safetys in coverage due to their experience at corner. A highly talented and athletic LB corp. and as long as Beason is here then it's one of the best in the NFL. A nice mix of DE's. We have a veteran who is solid in all areas and gives his all on every down. Johnson who has been here for a while learning and contributing when given the opportunity. 4 sacks and 2 FF's in limited time is very nice. He looks to be a guy you can have in on all 3 downs. Then you have Everette Brown in his second year. possibly a Freeney v2. And then Norwood possibly a Mathis v2. So we have two guys that can be out there on any down no matter what, and two guys that bring a lot of speed off the edges (notice how all of Meeks' eggs aren't in one basket). Then we have two young DT's who have tons of potential IMO. One guy is big enough to be a NT, but athletic enough to be a UT. If he beats his man he has the shortest distance to the QB and the ability to cover it quickly. Then our UT is as strong as you could hope for, and also athletic. neither of these guys are undersized. So we have a line that can be stout when needed. LB's who can be anywhere on the field and make the play. A secondary that can cover the top like a nice umbrella. Then we can adjust our line for speed and get to the QB..but we will always have guys on the field that can get to the QB. And always have the coverage in behind them to stop the big play. This Fox/Meeks blend is a serious one.
Oh and I almost forgot... Special Teams! we have a new one. A unit with proven Special Teamers who know their job and who are good at it. I think i will just copy and paste part of my sig for this one because i need to get ready for work...A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon. Can you say field position? And don't say this one too loud but maybe a TD from ST play...shhh cross your fingers. But I personally have a feeling that Jeff Rodgers could put something together here.
Then on offense we have the best RB duo in the history of the game! A duo that despite not having a passing attack to take the pressure off of them and open up box, was still able to achieve history. Then we have #89 and according to the Rules and Regulations I don't need to explain what he has been able to do by himself in double and tripple coverage. But now we are making a very solid effort in bringing him some help. With 3 draft picks, Jarret, and a QB that can get them the ball, #89 should be jumping for joy. Oh and btw LaFell coming in with exceptional down field blocking abilities to replace one of the main factors Moose brought to the field. Then we have a great blicking TE who can catch the balls thrown his way. A well balanced TE that can get out into open space and pick up yards. And I believe, a future star in Gary Barnidge. A tall athletic TE with big play all over him. And his blocking is coming along. So we have a beast running game and now all of a sudden a passing game that has to be respected....wait what? That can't be right. That's just not fair. John Fox is supposed to be predictable and one dimensional :(
They will put up too many points in too many ways. How does the league compete with that? Well they have to score a lot too. But wait Ron Meeks' stingy defense is in Carolina! It isn't easy scoring in the redzone anymore. So we will be forcing teams to play from behind while controlling the clock with Double Trouble. So they have to come out and sling the ball around on a turnover driven, get to the QB in a hurry, highly athletic Cover 2? Great! Wow what a gameplan. Can't wait to get to Dallas...
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Loved the optimism, and good job selling it. I can't argue with any of it, so I'll just rec it and say...
It may take a little time for them to (I hate this word) gel. Like you, I think the D-Line has one goal, get to the QB, and if you run into someone else that has the ball, crush him. We’ll be susceptible to draw plays and screens, which is where our athletic LBs and secondary have to be ready. Still, we’ll give up some yards between the 20’s, which is why I voted top 10 instead of top 5. I do think we’ll be top 5 in scoring defense, which is more important, and number one in turnover differential. The only thing I don’t like about what you wrote is that you didn’t specifically mention Greg Hardy.
With compliments to Eric at CatCrave (and shared at Coalition):On the Greg Hardy topic, I received this comment from one of my readers:
“Well on the defensive side of the ball there is a newly signed Panther who may just be one of the huge sleepers to come out of the 2010 draft. Many wanted Greg Hardy to enter the draft in 2009. He felt he would have a better chance to go number ONE overall if he stayed in school and polished up his game…Did he say number one overall? Yes.
Not only did Hardy believe it, but the biggest names in the sports media supported his argument. In April 2009, Sports Illustrated even ranked Hardy as the favorite for the NUMBER one OVERALL draft pick in the 2010 draft. Well a slippery slope seemed to pop up for Hardy. Before the season started Hardy and Dexter McCluster were in an auto accident where they were banged up and where the car itself burst into flames and was destroyed. While both players seemed to escape without injury Hardy noticed more foot pain and while his foot was hardly ready to walk on, it shoudl not have been as out of kilter as it was after the wreck. Hardy was checked by his doctors and told to wear the "boot" (flex cast) again. This was the same foot that had operated on two times that had been getting better…that is, until the wreck.
Hardy had suffered injuries early on but he continued to play and played while hurt. He had been seen by some as lacking effort when he was actually playing hurt and giving it all he had. When Houston Nutt finally came in and got a grasp of the situation and what was going on he got Hardy the help he needed and suddenly the 280 pound 6′4 defensive machine was on the real track to getting better. Hardy had to miss the last portion of his senior season due to a wrist injury but he had a personal goal of playing in the Cotton Bowl. Not only did he show up for every 5:30 am practice/training session, he would come early and stay late. Nutt had no doubt his star defensive end would play in the Cotton Bowl and then play well in the NLF. As late as last December there were some who believed Hardy would be a day one selection. However, when draft day rolled around there were teams who were afraid of using a day one pick on a player who may not be able to last a season. The thing to keep in mind is the injuries were not related and the Carolina Panthers medical staff felt the young Hardy was healthy and ready to play.
Now, if Hardy can duplicate just half of what he was able to achieve in his second season at Ole Miss then the NFC needs to their quarterbacks’ blind side as Hardy has an initial burst that would make Julius Peppers blush. These quarterbacks need to hold on to the footballs tightly as Hardy is a fumble forcing, qb sacking terror! The glimpse we have seen so far, from the OTA’s, showed Hardy being Hardy.
After a recent practice Hardy was required to run the field from side-to-side with the team’s linemen, two times. Hardy finished at least 20 yards ahead of the nearest runner each time. To make things more interesting, the linemen were released but Hardy stayed and asked to be included in the same "wind" sprints but this time with the faster running backs, wide receivers, defensive backs, linebackers and others. Amazingly, each time, Hardy, who is 280 pounds, finished near the front of the pack no small feat and a tribute to a young man who came prepared and in shape.”
I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde
by Rick Bates on Jul 5, 2010 11:17 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Wow
very impressive…now I feel like an ass for leaving him out of this. But i didn’t really want to get too much into the rookies and how they will contribute this year. only because I didn’t want to come off too blindly overly optimistic. But I am high on a few rookies. Hardy i have high hopes for. and THIS just gave me some confidence that we just might see him this year and that he might contribute. Thanks Rick.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
Damn! That may be the single most impressive post about our rookies that I've read yet.
I have given absolutely no consideration to Hardy at all — this blows my mind. I can’t wait to see him in action in the pre-season.
From what you’ve said (and quoted), he might indeed be the sleeper of the entire draft.
Maybe I missed it, but are there any YouTube links to Hardy’s college play?
Hell, I did my own research on Hardy (can't ask you guys to do it for me)
http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2010/1/14/1250605/greg-hardy-nfl-draft-scouting
http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2010ghardy.php
http://draftboardinsider.com/cgi-bin/prospect.cgi?id=898
http://draftboardinsider.com/cgi-bin/prospect.cgi?id=898
http://www.draftcountdown.com/ScoutingReports/DE/Greg-Hardy.php
….and here are some highlights to make your mouths water:
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=1Dhol5aFg8Y&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=f9yYACqaEwU&feature=related
http://www.panthers.com/media-vault/videos/Insider-Greg-Hardy/2d95feda-9430-4224-a049-b29d8f2e1f63
175th pick in the Draft?? I think we got a steal. What were those other 31 teams thining, to let us get Clausen and Hardy as late as we did?
Lingering injuries can scare away teams like timid sheep. He certainly has the skill. I don’t think anyone can dispute that.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Jul 5, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Hardy also had questionable work ethic.
His weight ballooned in the pre draft process, and his stats weren’t that impressive his last year or so. Explains his fall, but for a sixth round pick, he has incredible upside.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 6, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Alrighty.....
Basically that’s the same old story I’ve heard from you all offseason, the only difference is it’s now a little more in depth and all in one place. And I agree with much of it, and I do think we could have potentially better DT’s than what we had last year. But like Rick said, they’re going to have to gel. And here’s where we have a problem.
Let’s look at our first three opponents, New York, Cincinnati, and New Orleans I believe. The gameplan to beat Carolina is usually very simple, double Smith, stack the box, and we have an ineffective offense. Just don’t make mistakes against the defense, and they’ll eventually wear down to the point you can capitalize on them. An early turnover by our offense (or two) doesn’t hurt either. This year it’s going to be slightly different. Given that we showed a propensity to get gashed on the ground last year, and the fact that our current guys are unproven, teams are going to slam it down our throat all year until we show we can stop it. Given the nature of our first two opponents, and the gelling period that will likely be necessary, I foresee a possible 0-2 start heading into New Orleans with the bottom ranked or near bottom ranked rush D. Now if Ahmad Bradshaw gets hurt, Brandon Jacobs is this year’s version, Cedric Benson is suspended, etc, we might manage to be in the teens. But 0-2, for a team as young as ours, is a scary proposition. I see a potential death spiral lurking there, and while I’m an optimist, and think we’ll finish with a playoff spot, I’m not naive enough to ignore the fact that we could be very bad this year. Football is a team sport, it requires every phase of the game to be clicking to work to it’s full potential. One phase can destroy an entire team, like our passing game last season. Or rather lack of one. We were 4-7 when we put Moore in, had Delhomme not gotten hurt we very well could have finished 4-12 with him in. We may have scraped out a win or two, but that’s still a poor record. This year, we have a good offense (before injuries), and our defense is good in the back seven. However, if the front four can’t stop the run, our offense isn’t on the field as much. Our back four is more susceptible to play action, and as a result our defense’s overall effectiveness goes down. Our rushers can’t get to the QB because they have to worry about the run first. Our scoring D goes down because we can’t stop them from pounding it in once they get to the redzone. That is the absolute worse case scenario, I don’t really believe that will happen. But going along with my “middle ground” theory, I believe our DT’s will be on the level of Kemo and Lewis this season, barring the gelling period. If we can weather the losing record at the start of the year and bounce back, then we can make the playoffs, and potentially be the Cinderella team of the decade.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
Actually, we have the Bucs at home for game 2 (win).
The Bengals game is also at home, and I think by then we’ll have started the “gellin” process, and they won’t be ready for it.
Game 1 on the road at the G-men. Lot of drama, new stadium, ass-kicking we gave them last year. This one could be tough for the young guys. Giants will be motivated, for sure, but we still have our O-line and Double Trouble. Their running game ain’t what it used to be, and their run defense ain’t that hot either. We could steal this one, but it’s iffy.
So, while I understand you’re reasoning, Willow, I’m kinda thinking 2-1 going to New Orleans, and then be gellin’ in their dwellin’ (sorry)
I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde
Yeah, so make that 1-2 going into New Orleans. :)
See my post on the prediction page for more detail.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 6, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
so you have no confidence in our LBs?
I think they can contribute to stopping the run. And if we are aahead the othr teams can’t really just run the ball. Play action doesn’t just work like a charm. The Giants have a new DC, and its a DC we played last year. The Giants have lost some key guys. Their run D is weak.
Personally I’m not worried about th Giants the Bucs or the Bengals…or the Saints for that matter.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
by STEVEN 785 on Jul 5, 2010 6:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Linebackers can't do it all.
We learned that last year. And with Davis down…… I like Williams, Connor, and Anderson, but they aren’t at Davis’s level. And I don’t see Norwood being good for more than situational duty at linebacker for this year.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 6, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
our LBs did fine in Davis' absence
The DL can’t do it all. The front 7 is responsible for stopping the run. They all have to contribute. I believe in them that they will be able to. Especially with Lewis’ bum ass out of here.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
by STEVEN 785 on Jul 6, 2010 3:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We replace Lewis's bum arse with Tyler's
who wasn’t much better than Lewis when they were running a 4-3. And Leonard, who’s never played in a 4-3 at the pro level (excluding a game with us). And as far as our LB’s go, we still were pretty bad against the run, and now Diggs and Johnson are gone. They were a pretty big part of our defense last year, in both success and failure.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 7, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Linebackers can't do it all...
Good thing we have CBs that can tackle. Marshall was 2nd on the team last year.
I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde
If your secondary is racking up a lot of tackles,
that’s typically not a good thing.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 8, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Based on what... ???
DB tackles by team:
Saints – 7 out of top 9
Falcons – 3 out of top 5
Jets – 3 out of top 5
Packers – 5 out of top 8
Vikings – 5 out of top 8
That’s all I looked at, but I feel sure the trend would hold true if I kept going.
I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde
Ugh, I hit cancel on this post about halfway through. >_>
Usually if a DB gets a lot of tackles, it’s because the ball carrier is in the secondary, which indicates two possible things. One, the front seven is allowing the running back into the secondary. Two, the front seven is so good there are passes being let into the secondary, and the receivers are being tackled. Because I’m lazy, and don’t want to redo my work, I’ll just do the bottom 5.
Top 2 DB tackle totals on Bottom Five Run Defense’s
Tampa Bay 77 and 80 (Barber and Piscitelli)
Oakland 124 and 68 (Branch and Johnson)
Kansas City 103 and 65 (Brown and Flowers)
Buffalo 103 and 67 (Wilson and Corner)
Cleveland 91 and 69 (Elam and Adams)
[An interesting note about Cleveland, their top four tacklers were DB’s].
As for Carolina, 88 and 58 (Gamble and Marshall)
One thing that is common is that at least one total is uncommonly high. Especially Oakland. O_o Look at Eric Weddle’s tackle totals in San Diego as well, that’s another good example.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 8, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Look, I learned something from looking myself ...
when I looked up these numbers. Top tacklers on all teams are LBs, especially MLB, and DBs. Be a man and appreciate that you learned something rather than trying to defend a blind judgement on your part. I’m not trying to put you down, we can all learn if we drop the ego and look at the facts.
I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde
Meh, you're right (to an extent, still have some ego left ;) )
I did not expect those numbers. However you have to admit my logic make’s sense. If a ball carrier is breaking into the secondary more, then not only will he have more yards (and the defense a lower ranking) but the secondary will have more tackles. At least I thought it made sense.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 9, 2010 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Your point is valid, but often it's the corner that sets the edge...
on outside runs, and they make the tackle. Also, there’s just a lot more passing now, and corners come up to make the tackle on quick outs and smoke routes for little or no gain. Like I said, I was surprised. This might be something we need to look into further.
I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde
Definitely with the evolution of the pass
and the spread where they hit the backs and receivers in the flat, DB’s would be coming up to get a lot more tackles.
For someone as young as I am, I do have a decidedly old school view of football. XD
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 10, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
are you talking about Tylers rookie year? on tht bum squad?
And if you re seriously going to say Diggs and Johnson contributed to our success thn you hav no idea what you are talking about. I watch the games as they happen. Every one of them. I have been a fan of football my whole life. I played football all through school.
There’s more to it than the stats you read on th internet.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
by STEVEN 785 on Jul 8, 2010 12:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So Diggs and Johnson were cancers, who contributed absolutely nothing to our football team?
Despite being the first option at starter and backup at multiple LB positions?
And while that is Tyler’s rookie year, that’s all I have to go off of him in a 4-3, along with a few games last season, in which he didn’t really stand out. Let me quantify this, I think we will have average DT’s after this year, they’ll have growing pains, but they won’t suck. But I also find your claims of a new Williams wall a bit ludicrous to be frank. I’m in the middle, so to speak.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 8, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
When did i say anything about us having a new williams wall?
I think they will be able to get to th QB nd tie up blockrs. Don’t put words in my mouth.
And yes Diggs and Johnson were cancers. They ar friggin BUMS.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
by STEVEN 785 on Jul 8, 2010 1:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bums who locked down key positions on this team for multiple seasons?
I seem to remember you saying something about them becoming a Williams wall. Either way, your expectations for those two seem pretty high to me. I think they’ll be able to get to the QB more than any group we’ve had in a while, but I do think they’ll be about as good as our last group against the run.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 8, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
yes many bums lockd down key positions on this team for too long
Just bcause thy had a job doesn’t mean they are good you know?
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
by STEVEN 785 on Jul 8, 2010 8:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just because they don't have jobs doesn't mean they weren't good.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 9, 2010 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
just trust me they werent good
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
I bow to your expertise.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 10, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I just dont feel like explaining it
They never made an impact. They never did anything worth remembering. That is really all that need be said. For you to say that they were anything special and then to support it it would take some serious reaching.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
I never said they were special.
I said they weren’t a negative influence, and did make their share of plays. Landon Johnson was lighting up the weakside after Davis went down. Diggs was ole reliable for multiple seasons.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 11, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I always thought Diggs was a good starting linebacker. He was a good blitzer and had his moments in pass coverage. I had no complaints.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Jul 10, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
He is solid...
…but not spectacular. That’s still pretty damned good in this league. But for the money and considering our option behind him? There was no point in keeping him.
I was far more disturbed when we let Will Witherspoon go several years ago.
Now that was a WTF moment
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
willow here is your comment
I put a comment up on that fan post, but let me try a different angle here. Isn’t DT really our biggest weakness? I’m not asking if they will be bad or not, I’m asking if they are the weakest position on our team? Unproven they definitely are, and Yoda like I definitely sound. And unfortunately in the NFL, if you are unproven, you are automatically assumed to be more on the negative side than the positive, just because there are so many more guys who don’t live up to expectations than those that exceed them. And Williamson has a point. Name me a group of DT’s in the league right now who are clear cut better than Louis Leonard, Tank Tyler, Nick Hayden, Corey Irvin, Ed Johnson, and Derek Landri. I’ve looked, and I can’t. Now this group may eventually be better, but as of right now they aren’t. And it’s the right now we’re talking about
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
and Risck said it well
it is the biggest question mark. it cant be a weakness yet. because it hasnt failed. it hasnt had the opportunity to fail. the bums we let go of failed at it. but these guys didnt. they are unproven.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
Rick*
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
How about this:
our weakness is our uncertainty?
lol
THIS
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
Then what is our weakness?
Like I said in the comment, in the NFL, if you are unproven, you are a weakness, until you show otherwise. Teams are going to test L2 and Tyler early and often, and unless those two are the next Williams wall, they’re going to give some of the time.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 6, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
They cant b a weakness...that just doesnt make sense
How can they be evaluated without ever playing?
And the Williams wall gave last year. See Stewart, Jonathan. All lines do. If we are giving up 150 yards a game through week 9 then talk to me about our weakness.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
by STEVEN 785 on Jul 6, 2010 3:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
alrighty, we're just going to have to drop this.
You can’t comprehend the basic part of my argument. Whether or not that part is right or wrong is irrelevant, you don’t understand where I’m coming from.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 7, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
In my opinion, our weakness is...
…our youth, inexperience, etc. Call it “unproven” if you want. It’s true that you can’t say the current crop of players are bums or failures. They haven’t been given the opportunity to fail at anything yet. So, they’re really just unproven until we see what they can do. Now what that also means is that they will be tested as a result of their unproven-ness (is that even a word?). Opponents will test these guys and our coaches better have them ready or the season could get off to a very poor start from which we won’t be able to recover.
Personally, I’m far more of a middleground guy anyway when it comes to expectations for the upcoming season. I’m just conservative, because 1) it’s rare that you see a very young team gel, compete, and succeed at the NFL level very quickly, 2) we’ve got a killer of an opening game and some pretty stiff competition in the early part of our season, which could mushroom on us if we get off to a poor start, 3) the games that matter the most will be our division games and I think all three of our rivals significantly improved themselves with their off-season acquisitions…so, we’ll be lucky if we can go 3-3 in division play with the young squad we’ll be fielding, and 4) we’re in danger of getting hit by the injury bug pretty substantially (and I’m not just talking about Steve Smith or Thomas Davis), because if these young guys go down, there will be an even younger and less experienced guy behind him.
Now, despite all that, I’m actually pretty optimistic this year. I actually agree that it was time to start transitioning this team away from some of the aging, proven veterans to give the young kids a chance to start. The financial situation of the NFL also dictated the move. But I think the fanbase was ready to turn the page on a lot of things, too (i.e., Peppers, Delhomme, Coach Fox maybe?, etc.)…so might as well do some extra spring-cleaning at the same time. It’s not like the guys who will be asked to step into the starting roles aren’t ready. Many of them aren’t rookies and have already contributed quite capably in the past. So the risk/reward metrics are just about right for doing things this way, too.
Now the bottom line is going to be how these kids go out and perform. And, perhaps more importantly, how well the coaches can forge them into effective players at their individual positions AND into an effective unit when playing together. In fact, I’m as excited about some of the coaching changes (special teams anyone?) as I am about some of the player personnel changes. This is going to be a serious transition year for the Panthers. How that transition goes is going to determine a lot about the character of the team and John Fox’s chances for sticking with Carolina once his contract is up. So let’s put on some pads and see what the team can do.
My two-cents,
—Neil
by NSpicer on Jul 6, 2010 10:57 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Neil, once again you have expressed a point of view perfectly.
I know we say it all the time and it’s probably getting old, but there is no way that is worth only two cents. :)
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 6, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, F-W...
…I don’t get to post as often as I’d like (which means less reading for some folks!) ;-)
But I do read along whenever I can, especially if an interesting topic catches my eye.
I have reply for you Neil
But I don’t have the time to post. So I will wait till later. But very good points.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
by STEVEN 785 on Jul 6, 2010 3:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Excellent post (rec'd). I totally agree about the coaching changes...
both Rodgers on Special Teams, and Tolbert as Receiver coach. These two guys can have the greatest impact among all the changes on our team. I’m excited for the future of these young coaches, and for the players they’ll be mentoring. Rodgers has been given the players to create the best STs in the league. Tolbert has a stable of young, talented players that need to be taught to play at this level. Their success will ultimately determine the success of the Panthers for several years to come.
I, for one, hope Fox is given the opportunity and chooses to stay.
I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde
The injury bug is scary...
But we dont usually get bit in consecutive seasons. It could destroy us depending on where it bites, if it does. like at the Safety position…maybe.
I know we need to gel, but I don’ see the threat of us having that young of a team. we have vets starting at SS, all 3 CBs, S,W, and MLB, and both DEs. then we have young DTs yes. But they are a year in the system along with our FS. I wouldnt say that we are too young on that side of the ball with only 3 players not having extensive experience with the team. But then again everybody on the team only has 1 year of experience in Meeks’ system anyway. I believe Meeks has earned the respect of the veterans and the young guys will be willing to follow instruction.
Preseason is only a little more than a month away. And we should be able to see at least some of the chemistry, maybe. But i think depending on how well the 2nd and 3rd team excecute, we should be able to get a good idea of how well the coaches are doing at grabbing this bull by the horns.
Now at the same time a lot is on our veterans to get these rookies and young guys hyped and ready. Our vets are pissed at how the season went last year. we definately could have gotten further. they dont want the same performance. And Beason especially gets fired up in Giants stadium. He will be pumping everyone up all TC over the Giants game. If we win that game and our run D steps up, we have some good momentum. really good actually. then we roll the Bucs and then we are 2-0 in our house against a good but not Great Bengals team. This game is very winnable. So let me say that we win this game for now…we go into the superdome 3-0… with a very very good chance at coming back home 4-0. Fox plays Payton well. as long as Moore doesnt get intimidated and we are healthy, we should really win this game. This is very very possible, in my mind at least.
Now on the other side of this coin we have the offense. who should really be able to keep us in or up in these games. We have a QB that has played very well in his recent outings. He is good at protecting the football. He also throws touchdown passes. and I think that maybe he will be comfortable in his new found role. If not we are screwed pretty much. But if our passing game is clicking then they can not stack the box. That is the only way to stop our running game. with just 2 WRs and a TE that is just too much to handle with Double Trouble’s fresh legs pounding away at the interrior of their dimminished run D. Jarret should come out and make a statement in this game. I know he has never shown up before, but this year baby this year is different. So really we should have a serious offense right out of the gate. And they should only improve from week to week.
This offense should be plenty of padding for our D. Our D’s job is going to be to create TO’s. Get to the QB and force mistakes along the way. And to not give up too many big plays. Thats not really too much to ask of a young D. Especially one with 8 veterans familiar with the system and a grudge in thier hearts.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
Love the optimism. You do Mr. Churchill proud. But you forgot one of the best parts...
Our STs are going force turnovers, win the field position battle, and even score a few TDs.
I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde
I did leave thm out of my reply.
I don’t know wht xactly to expct from them. I definately expect the coverge to be improved. And I hope Rodgers’ schemes get us some point on the board. But I’m just not sure what to expect.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
by STEVEN 785 on Jul 6, 2010 7:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This whole page consists of a lot of reading.
It must be an interesting topic if everyone has that much to say about it. I was going to read it, but my attention span is too short.
stuff 'bout stuff.
At least this ought to be fun to watch!
So much of the Panthers success (or lack thereof) over the past decade came down to injuries – and I include Jake’s elbow in that.
This group shows a lot of promise. Hopefully the speed factor will compensate for the occasional missed assignment/read.
by panthersnbraves on Jul 6, 2010 11:58 AM EDT reply actions
Why are We Afraid...
of the Giants? They seem to be a team on the verge of a complete melt down judging from last year. Of course things can change and swing but we kicked their butts to close out their stadium and I truly believe we can kick their butts in their new one!!
There coach is on the hotseat…they’ve lost a key receiver (wish him well and a speedy recovery) The Gmen’s run D is suspect as is their running game. Eli is a pretty good QB but not outstanding.
I believe we win the first 2 and probably the 1st 4 or more.
who said anything about being scared of the Giants?
They are going to flop this year. probably last place in the division. The only thing is that they will bring a lot of fight into that game. I’m not sure if our guys will be riled up and pissed off or nervouus or what. that is the only reason they even have a chance in my mind.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
Where is this myth about the Giants having a weak run D?
They have a great D-line, and solid, young linebackers. Their biggest weakness is not playing up to their talent and underperforming. And I think that will change this year.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 6, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Osi is sucking it up against the run,
Cnty couldn’t stay healthy and wasn’t impressive when healthy, they lost Robbins, and Pierce who was their Beason. They have Tuck and Kiwanuka which yeah they are good. But the run D we will see prtty much the sam unit that Stew raped. But this time we have DLO. So that’s Double Trouble for th G men.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
by STEVEN 785 on Jul 6, 2010 3:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm going to agree with F-W...
…the Giants game will be a tough contest. We’ll be younger (and hungrier, maybe?), but also inexperienced. The G-man will be two years removed from a Superbowl with plenty of vets with plenty of reason to smash us when they open their new stadium as retribution for how we ended their last home game to close out their old stadium.
In addition, everyone immediately seems to think our run game will come out hitting on all cylinders just like in year’s past. Yes, the RBs and OL are intact. But, we’ll be subbing Fiammetta or Sutton at FB and we won’t have a savvy downfield and edge blocker like Muhsin Muhammad at WR unless Brandon LaFell is ready to go as a starter. I think he will be, but like everything else, he’ll be one of those unproven, inexperienced guys trying to adjust to NFL speed. I’m by no means saying our running game will go belly-up. But the Giants could blunt our running attack if they’re really gunning for us.
Emotional games like these always benefit a defense. That means they’ll elevate their play for a season opener when our guys are just starting to sort what kind of team they’re going to be…and still trying to determine their potential. That’s a recipe for us to fall flat and the Giants to romp. I don’t know if that’s how it’ll play out. And I’d be ecstatic to see us trounce them again. But, like much of this season’s team, we’ll have to wait and see what we’ve got before I’ll start making bold predictions on how easily we’ll handle anyone…Double-Trouble or not…
—Neil
Neil...
Have u ever seen 89 block down field? Not to mention IF Jarrett gets the job he’s not too shabby a blocker either. I can’t look at the SB win after they ALL the wheels came off for them by the end of last season.
I don’t take ANY game for granted as a win…but the GMen are not up there w/the teams I worry most about. They have alot of the same ? marks we have but we have the upper hand of having just knocked them in the mouth.
Our run game should be one of the best in week 1 (comparitively) sp? I see no reason why it wouldn’t be. We’ll have both our backs as well our new WR and of course 89.
Sure...
All of our WRs work on their downfield blocking. Personally, I think many of them took inspiration from Muhsin in doing so. Physically, I know all of them can do it. Mentally, I’m not 100% sure yet that all of them know when and how best to do it at the NFL level. Steve Smith is a competitor at everything he does. But he’s still undersized for it compared to a big body blocking WR. Jarrett is capable, but his blocking (and even pass-catching, so far) isn’t the equivalent of Muhammad. So, I still say Muhsin will be missed in this area. But I’ll be completely happy if LaFell steps up and takes on that role and/or Jarrett suddenly plays lights-out.
Neil, I think it really goes back to your earlier post...
I don’t remember a year in which coaching was more important than for our upcoming season. The question is not only if the coaches can get the players ready, but when. Translating talent into technique and skill is one side of the coin, and the other is instilling teamwork and desire, and handling emotional responses to losses and wins. Until both sides are in place, we will struggle. What we can’t do with any level of certainty is predict when our young team puts it together. Game 1?, game 5? Who really knows? But what else is there to do while we wait for the season besides trying to guess and respectfully exchanging ideas? That’s what we do best.
I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde
Absolutely agree, Rick...
…we’re all guessing at this point and exercising varying degrees of optimism and expectation-setting for ourselves. Definitely agree that coaching will be of HUGE importance this year. And I like the guys we have on the coaching staff. Especially the defensive side of the ball and the changes on special teams.
Out of the gate we usually dont run too well.
for some reason the past two seasons, the first quarter hasnt been stellar on the ground. to my memory anyway. but later on we put up like 180 yards a game to make up for it. They have a lot to adjust to and a lot of pressure. their fans wont be forgiving. if we come out strong… the fans will boo and leave. before halftime. My cousin has come home early from a ton of games. the whole stadium is like that. they arent like philly fans.
I seriously expect our passing game to be effective and our run game to get off to early success because of it. I think we will be too much for a demoralized Giants team adjusting to a new DC.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
Osi doesn't start, Canty will be healthy week 1 (likely), and they still have Cofield, Alford, Rocky Bernard...
and incoming rookies Linval Joseph and Jason Pierre-Paul. Add that to Tuck and Kiwi, and that is one heck of a D-line. And in addition, there’s the whole motivation factor. Logic says that the G-men will be hyped up for the game, compared to last time where they really looked like they could care less. Then again, I feel the Giants weakness has been lack of desire, so if that recurs, we could repeat the scoreline. But I don’t think it will.
Oh, and Pierce was no Beason. Goff is a huge upgrade over Antonio Pierce.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 7, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It's one heck of an overrated D-line, if you ask me...
and Pierce was no Beason, that’s true, but I don’t know how you can say Goff is a “huge” upgrade. I looked at the numbers. They’re decent, but there’s no reason to believe they’ll cause our very experienced O-line any problems. We should win this game, with the only real variable being the motivation factor.
I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde
I know Pierce was no Beason
But he was THEIR Beason. I haven’t heard one vote of confidence for Goff from any of my frinds or family. JPP is probably going to be a bust. Either way Joseph and JPP are Rookies. I doubt week 1 they make an impact. Their line is all banged up. With quite a few guys coming off surgeries. If they can’t stack the box they will be in trouble.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
by STEVEN 785 on Jul 8, 2010 11:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Dude, talk to the guys over at Big Blue or whatever the Giants blog is called.
They’ll tell you Pierce was a steaming pile of crap last year. He was a leader, but to call him their Beason is an insult to Beason. In fact, the lack of leadership on that defense is a huge reason they sucked so bad. Hopefully Goff will change that. And you can’t call JPP a bust for the same reason you won’t call our DT’s a weakness, he’s unproven. ;) Joseph may be a rookie, but they have added new players to an already lethal unit.
Let me list their D-line again, just for effect. Justin Tuck, Mathias Kiwanuka, Osi Umenyiora, Jason Pierre-Paul, Barry Cofield, Jay Alford, Rocky Bernard, Chris Canty, and Linval Joseph. That D-line, if it stays healthy and motivated, can be just as good as the Giants D-line that shut down possibly the best offense of all time in the Super Bowl.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 8, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Follow the link below, and see if you still come away impressed...
http://profootballfocus.com/cstats.php?tab=by_team&season=2009&teamid=21&stype=a&stats=d
I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde
I don't need the link to tell me
the Giants D was pretty bad last year for stretches. But I’ve already said they had motivational issues, in addition to health issues. If they get those fixed they have one of the most talented lines in the league.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 8, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, they underachieved rather than being overrated...
whatever floats your boat, young man.
I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde
Look at what they did to New England in the Super Bowl.
That was only two years ago. Many of the same pieces are still there and effective, if not better than before. I feel like a broken record, so hopefully this is my last comment on that subject, but that D-line is good.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 9, 2010 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
new DC remember
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
oh I forgot about that.
Dang. That changes things a bit.
And to Rick below (or above, not sure where this comment will end up) Strahan did provide valuable leadership, and with him gone that line is missing it. Let me bold the if this time, IF they get motivated, and IF they stay healthy, they are in contention for best in the league. But this is the NFL, you never know. Still, several of those guys played in the Super Bowl, compared to our guys who played for the Chiefs and Browns. So I hope you can excuse where I place my faith.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 10, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Just saying..didnt it take us a lil while to adjust?
And no I can’t excuse you when you sound like a Giant fan. You really sound like you are on their side.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
Yes, Steven, it did. And we got progressively better...
The G-Men got progressively worse. Something ain’t right in NYC.
I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde
I dont know if you ever did answer my question..
How do you go about studying these teams? how do you watch all their games? You have sunday ticket and like 10 boxes?
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
No, I just soak up information in the ways I've explained.
And while I do like the Giants D-line this year, I am a Panthers fan through and through. I hope we kick the snot out of the Giants, it would send a message we are to be feared. But I’m not naive enough to dismiss them.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 11, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
They also had a guy named Strahan in '07
who brought both production and leadership. He had a sack, 5 QB pressures on Brady, and a batted pass.
I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde
A) Pierce was the leader of that D
He isn’t Beason-esk in talent or anything like that.
I will give you a perspective on Goff from one of thr biggest Giant fans and sports fantics I know. You will NEVER be able to tell him something about a sport tht he doesn’t know..nor will I. The man is a genious and very realistic. I will text ,copy and paste right now….
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
by STEVEN 785 on Jul 9, 2010 12:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
here...
I am texting him about Goff, here is what he has to say…
Me: cuz…can I get an honest assesment of Goff? Is he better than Pierce in your opinion? What does he do well? How do you fel about your run D in general?
Cuz: No he’s not better than pierce but he’s younger and a little faster, rough around the edges with some potential upside.Doesn’t have nearly the same nose for the football though in the run game. Our run D… Average at best if we are lucky… too much stuff to go over right now cuz. But let me just put it this way…it’s not ’07
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
by STEVEN 785 on Jul 9, 2010 12:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
B) what are you a giants fan now?
C) how many Giants games do you get to catch over there in south africa? How many giants fans do you get to just sit around and talk football with. do you know the overall feeling they have right now? just curious.
but here I will let you know. They arent too hopefull right now. Their line has been through a lot of crap with injury and surgery. they are just hoping that they can get everyone back and 100% one day. To not have to push too far. And to just not come in 4th place in the division…. and for no one else to get hurt. they have lost too many players for the season and it isnt even tc yet.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
oh and BTW...
when I say that " JPP will probably be a bust" is just speculation. notcie the word PROBABLY. I am entitled to my opinion of what I think will happen with him. He had 6 sacks in college. not the kind of impact player that one should be drooling over IMO. But I never said he will be a bust or a failure or a weakness.
and re reading your comment..you apparently have more faith in a unit that has failed than the one we are putting together right now. you know the team you SHOULD believe in. being a fan of the PANTHERS…
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
Once again, I never said I don't believe in the PANTHERS as a team.
What I am saying is I have a lot more faith in a defensive line that shut down a New England offense that was possibly the best ever in the Super Bowl than one made out of guys most fans have never even heard of. I think the Panthers will be successful, we just disagree on the means.
JPP I’m just pointing out some inconsistencies. I’m entitled to my own opinion as well. ;)
And while I’m not a Giants expert, I’m definitely more savvy about other teams than your typical fan. I enjoy all football, I just enjoy it more when my Panthers are playing. You gave me one guy’s opinion, good, I can’t dispute any of it. Pierce was a good player at one point, but I bet most Giants fans will tell you he was very poor last season. And considering how that defense melted, I’d say his leadership skills declined as well.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 9, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
what inconsistencies? No doubt you are entitled to your opinion. I take issue when you state that it is our weakness...if you said you think it could be or will be or that it is the biggest question...
how do you go about getting this knowledge of other teams?
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
Your belief in our DT's vs your lack of believe in JPP.
They are very similar situations, and you treat them differently. As of right now it is our weakness, it’s the thing OC’s will try to take advantage of the most. In the NFL, typically you are considered a weakness until you prove otherwise, that’s the way it is. Brees was considered a risk after his shoulder surgery, despite the all clear from the doctor’s. He’s not a risk anymore now is he?
As for other teams, I’m just like a sponge, I soak up knowledge whether I mean to or not. ;) Fantasy football helps, along with reading the homepage instead of just skipping to the Panthers. The draft process also is enlightening, because you get to see what other fans say their weaknesses are.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 10, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
ok i guess it is similar.
JPP is a rookie who never did anything in college. and i dont get excited over every rookie that comes into the league. but i dont ever say that they will fail or wont succeed. i let them prove that.
OCs will be curious to find out if an untested area is vulnerable. but you wont hear them say beforehand that it is a weakness. they will say theres questions there or its unproven or untested. i guess we are talking semantics. But just dont state as fact that our DTs are weak and i could care less of your opinions.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
That's because they don't want to provide bulletin board material.
In team meetings, they may say such and such is bad at this, go after them. But they sugarcoat it when they talk to the media.
But yeah, this is basically semantics. The offseason makes us do crazy things. ;)
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 11, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions

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