Panthers Offseason Position Review - Tight End
With three days to go until training camp, we come to the last of the offseason position reviews. Not much has changed at tight end since I previewed them last year. We have the same players-Jeff King (#47), Dante Rosario (#88), Gary Barnidge (#82)- expected to be on the team and, until I see an official announcement, the depth chart should remain the same. There is also Jamie Petrowoski (#86) on the roster but the I figure the only way he makes the final cut is if someone else get hurt and even then its not a given as the Panthers could choose to keep only two TE or look for another option off the waiver wire. Because of this I wanted to look our tight end stats instead of the normal player profile and predictions. For that read last years post (linked above).
Basically, King blocks well but isn't the best option to get open. He can catch but is slow when heading down field and yards after catch are low. Rosario has promise and had the most receiving yards last year. Finally, many fans are big on Barnidge and many think if he can improve his pass blocking he would become the starter as he has the ability to stretch the middle of the field with his pass catching.
All three TE have been with the Panthers all of their professional careers. The following are their overall stats. I should also mention that King, in 2006, only had 1 rec for a 1 yard touchdown, so most of his stats were accumulated along with Rosario.
| Player | Age | Yr Joined Tm | Yrds | Rec | Yds/Rec | TD |
| King | 27 | 2006 | 802 | 93 | 8.6 | 7 |
| Rosario | 25 |
2007 | 630 | 50 | 12.6 | 5 |
| Barnidge | 24 |
2008 | 242 | 12 | 20.2 | 0 |
I do find it interesting that despite the opinion of many that Rosario is the better receiver than King, King has a solid advantage in total yards (in keeping in light the 2006 year for King), but on the other hand as expected Rosario has the larger yards per reception stat, of course Barnidge blows them both out away with the 20.2 yds/rec in that regard.
More stats after the break.
This table shows the teams TE stats since 2000 and where the team ranked league wide versus the other TE.
| Year | Rank | TotalYds | TotalRec | TotalTD | # of TE | Ave Age |
| 2009 | 16 | 755 | 63 | 5 | 3 | 25 |
| 2008 | 25 | 404 | 39 | 2 | 3 | 24 |
| 2007 | 18 | 553 | 57 | 6 | 3 | 28 |
| 2006 | 31 | 317 | 37 | 2 | 4 | 27 |
| 2005 | 25 | 357 | 35 | 4 | 3 | 27 |
| 2004 | 21 | 480 | 51 | 5 | 3 | 26 |
| 2003 | 30 | 314 | 30 | 1 | 4 | 28 |
| 2002 | 24 | 445 | 43 | 5 | 4 | 29 |
| 2001 | 9 | 573 | 61 | 7 | 4 | 29 |
| 2000 | 9 | 691 | 55 | 4 | 4 | 30 |
In 2000, 2001, and 2002, Wesley Walls was a part of the team. But in Fox's second year of coaching the TE became on afterthought and the TE rank tumbled to 24th. In our superbowl year it didn't seem to matter as our ranking was even lower at 30. We had a slight resurgence last year and they will need to step up again in 2010 as the secondary receiving option for Matt Moore to have success.
Yet Moore didn't rely on them as much I would have thought. In his five starts last season (31.2% of season) he only had 28.6% of the receptions (18 rec) and 21.9% total yards (165 yrds). This compares to 590 yards thrown by Jake Delhomme on 45 receptions in 11 games (68.8% of season). At this point I just find that interesting and can't say if there is really anything to take from that as Moore could have thrown to his WR instead of needing to use the tight ends as much. I'll have to spend some time breaking it down a bit more.
In the following nine tables is a comparison of the Panthers TE stats each season and to the top and bottom three teams each year going back to 2000.
|
2009 Season |
||||||
|
Rank |
Team |
TotalYrds |
TotalRec |
TotalTD |
# of TE |
Ave Age |
|
1 |
IND |
1312 |
121 |
10 |
6 |
26 |
|
2 |
HOU |
1282 |
111 |
6 |
5 |
26 |
|
3 |
DAL |
1251 |
116 |
2 |
3 |
24 |
|
16 |
CAR |
755 |
63 |
5 |
3 |
25 |
|
30 |
CIN |
410 |
43 |
2 |
5 |
27 |
|
31 |
BUF |
374 |
42 |
1 |
5 |
25 |
|
32 |
ARI |
245 |
23 |
3 |
4 |
29 |
|
2008 Season |
||||||
|
Rank |
Team |
TotalRec |
TotalYrds |
TotalTD |
Ave Age |
# of TE |
|
1 |
DAL |
1267 |
109 |
8 |
3 |
24 |
|
2 |
NOR |
1193 |
110 |
3 |
5 |
29 |
|
3 |
HOU |
1180 |
100 |
4 |
5 |
27 |
|
25 |
CAR |
404 |
39 |
2 |
3 |
24 |
|
30 |
NWE |
302 |
31 |
2 |
4 |
26 |
|
31 |
ARI |
237 |
25 |
0 |
5 |
28 |
|
32 |
ATL |
211 |
19 |
2 |
4 |
30 |
|
2007 Season |
||||||
|
Rank |
Team |
TotalRec |
TotalYrds |
TotalTD |
Ave Age |
# of TE |
|
1 |
DAL |
1306 |
113 |
11 |
3 |
24 |
|
2 |
CLE |
1218 |
95 |
5 |
3 |
28 |
|
3 |
KAN |
1181 |
101 |
5 |
2 |
33 |
|
18 |
CAR |
553 |
57 |
6 |
3 |
28 |
|
30 |
SEA |
355 |
41 |
5 |
6 |
30 |
|
31 |
CIN |
333 |
32 |
0 |
4 |
28 |
|
32 |
DET |
262 |
19 |
0 |
5 |
27 |
|
2006 Season |
||||||
|
Rank |
Team |
TotalRec |
TotalYrds |
TotalTD |
Ave Age |
# of TE |
|
1 |
CLE |
1138 |
127 |
6 |
3 |
27 |
|
2 |
NWE |
1037 |
81 |
6 |
3 |
26 |
|
3 |
SDG |
1015 |
85 |
12 |
2 |
26 |
|
30 |
ARI |
321 |
34 |
1 |
5 |
25 |
|
31 |
CAR |
317 |
37 |
2 |
4 |
27 |
|
32 |
BUF |
284 |
31 |
4 |
5 |
26 |
|
2005 Season |
||||||
|
Rank |
Team |
TotalRec |
TotalYrds |
TotalTD |
Ave Age |
# of TE |
|
1 |
TEN |
1359 |
149 |
8 |
4 |
25 |
|
2 |
SDG |
1139 |
100 |
11 |
3 |
25 |
|
3 |
BAL |
1064 |
101 |
8 |
4 |
27 |
|
25 |
CAR |
357 |
35 |
4 |
3 |
27 |
|
30 |
STL |
195 |
22 |
2 |
5 |
29 |
|
31 |
BUF |
165 |
23 |
0 |
4 |
27 |
|
32 |
SFO |
158 |
20 |
0 |
6 |
26 |
|
2004 Season |
||||||
|
Rank |
Team |
TotalRec |
TotalYrds |
TotalTD |
Ave Age |
# of TE |
|
1 |
KAN |
1378 |
119 |
10 |
2 |
30 |
|
2 |
SDG |
1129 |
96 |
16 |
3 |
24 |
|
3 |
DAL |
1012 |
92 |
8 |
6 |
26 |
|
21 |
CAR |
480 |
51 |
5 |
3 |
26 |
|
30 |
STL |
231 |
22 |
1 |
2 |
27 |
|
31 |
HOU |
230 |
21 |
1 |
3 |
28 |
|
32 |
PIT |
188 |
17 |
5 |
5 |
29 |
|
2003 Season |
||||||
|
Rank |
Team |
TotalRec |
TotalYrds |
TotalTD |
Ave Age |
# of TE |
|
1 |
KAN |
971 |
77 |
13 |
3 |
27 |
|
2 |
IND |
904 |
72 |
4 |
4 |
27 |
|
3 |
DEN |
857 |
72 |
9 |
4 |
29 |
|
30 |
CAR |
314 |
30 |
1 |
4 |
28 |
|
31 |
PIT |
263 |
24 |
2 |
4 |
29 |
|
32 |
WAS |
183 |
21 |
0 |
4 |
27 |
|
2002 Season |
||||||
|
Rank |
Team |
TotalRec |
TotalYrds |
TotalTD |
Ave Age |
# of TE |
|
1 |
NYG |
1094 |
98 |
4 |
6 |
27 |
|
2 |
BAL |
989 |
85 |
8 |
3 |
24 |
|
3 |
DEN |
875 |
82 |
4 |
4 |
28 |
|
24 |
CAR |
445 |
43 |
5 |
4 |
29 |
|
30 |
WAS |
244 |
20 |
2 |
3 |
27 |
|
31 |
CIN |
218 |
28 |
2 |
4 |
25 |
|
32 |
PIT |
133 |
18 |
2 |
6 |
28 |
|
2001 Season |
||||||
|
Rank |
Team |
TotalRec |
TotalYrds |
TotalTD |
Ave Age |
# of TE |
|
1 |
IND |
1082 |
79 |
9 |
4 |
27 |
|
2 |
BAL |
1030 |
91 |
3 |
3 |
27 |
|
3 |
TEN |
1008 |
90 |
5 |
5 |
25 |
|
9 |
CAR |
573 |
61 |
7 |
4 |
29 |
|
29 |
NWE |
168 |
19 |
4 |
2 |
26 |
|
30 |
NYG |
164 |
17 |
3 |
3 |
27 |
|
31 |
ARI |
159 |
19 |
2 |
4 |
29 |
|
2000 Season |
||||||
|
Rank |
Team |
TotalRec |
TotalYrds |
TotalTD |
Ave Age |
# of TE |
|
1 |
KAN |
1299 |
103 |
11 |
3 |
27 |
|
2 |
DEN |
1124 |
99 |
7 |
4 |
26 |
|
3 |
IND |
977 |
77 |
6 |
4 |
26 |
|
9 |
CAR |
691 |
55 |
4 |
4 |
30 |
|
29 |
MIA |
215 |
16 |
1 |
4 |
25 |
|
30 |
STL |
194 |
21 |
3 |
3 |
28 |
|
31 |
NYJ |
170 |
22 |
5 |
4 |
27 |
There a lot of information there but I'm not sure if there's much to take away from it. I did notice that there are good and bad teams intermixed each year amount the top three, but there are hardy any good teams (for each particular year) a part of the bottom three. There are obviously several reasons for the second scenario, but it also tells me that the good teams figure out how to use all their weapons. (What other information do you see there?)
So what is everyone expecting out of the TE position this year? I would like to see the unit combine to reach last years stats. With the running backs taking the pressure off of our passing game, it would be ideal for the TE to reach that production keeping the opposition guessing and hopefully leaving our receivers open for Moore to find.
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Comments
Great post. I’ve watched King since he was at Va. Tech. He’s always been a north south runner after the catch. The great thing about Jeff is after the catch, he always goes forward. With Fox/Hurney plays, I think Jeff has done everything asked. Blocked for the most part, but able to catch the ball and move down field as the open receiver.
I like all three. We should use them more.
King – good blocker; great play-action threat inside the 5.
Rosario – good blocker, STer, great hands and can run routes. Clutch!!!
Barnidge – downfield speed and size; great hands in traffic, good STer. This guy is under-utilized in the passing game. He’s an ex-basketball player (a la Gates). They should just consider him another receiver.
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
I still have problems with our TE corps
We still have three guys with very distinct roles that too easily telegraphs our offense.
I understand that Fox doesn’t really use them, but regardless when Rosario and Barnidge are on the field it tells the opposing defense “HEY WE’RE THROWING DEEP!”
I like Jeff King’s game… but he’s still Jeff King. I haven’t really seen his game evolve from year to year and while he’s a good blocker I still want there to be one player to fill all the roles rather than 3 guys.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
Interesting point, James. I agree with you to an extent...
but there’s always the trickeration aspect, which is why Jeff King is wide open in the end zone. Rosario is a pretty good blocker, probably the most well rounded of the three. So he really doesn’t give anything away. Barnidge is a good option to have on the field for the 3rd and twenty draw play (lol).
Where there’s a will… I want to be in it.
Rosario is decent, but King is by far the best blocker.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Jul 26, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
You got it.
We are telegraphing the offensive play calls by which TE is in the package. I don’t agree that the best teams always have prolific TE. Great TEs usually indicate a Quaterback being able to make it through the progression and a lack of play makers in the WR position. Who was the Saints TE? Who was the Patroits TE? What role did a TE play in the Steelers superbowl runs? Dallas Clarke had his best years after Harrison left the colts. Witten had a better year in 2008 with a slow TO in the mix instead of Austin. Gates had his best years before the emergence of Vincent Jackson. Where has Todd Heap been since Flacco brought that passing game back to life? Kansas city never had a decent reciever when Gonzales was racking up the yards. Who was the elite reciever when Algea crumpler was going to the probowl? Hey don’t get me wrong, you want great players where you can get them, but often these statistics are inflated by poor options at WR and blown protection.
by Hampton Howle on Jul 26, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
sort of wrong about Shockey.
Shockey was the TE for the Saints and did have a big TD catch to put them ahead. But he only had 3 rec for 15 yards that game and look what happened when he went out on injury for the Giants. They won the Superbowl.
by Hampton Howle on Jul 26, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
It doesn't give much away when we run 2 TE sets
Which happens fairly often for run blocking. What’s more obvious to me is that they are usually only thrown to as a last option, UNLESS one is sprinting down the sideline… Then they almost always get the ball.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 26, 2010 2:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yup
The two-tight set is becoming more popular as a way to counter the 3-4 defense.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
They all do a good job, but our emphasis is elsewhere, not like Indy or Dallas.
Interesting that our TE receptions and yardage, on TE catches, were the highest in a decade. I didn’t know that, and would doubt anyone of us did, either.
It averaged to about 4 catches a game, enough to keep defenses aware we might throw there. In the red zone they become much more of a factor, with most of our throws to TEs there coming off of faked run blocks.
I see Barnidge as more threat going for a deep seam catch than the others, and still think he has more of an upside, if used properly. Problem is he’s not in on every play, though he often lines up as a 3rd WR.
I’m satisfied with their play, and think they complement the rushing game well. If we ever establish a viable 2nd WR (my guess is we will this year), they’ll blossom into an even more effective threat for Moore. If that happens (2nd WR coming into his own), we could have one of the best balanced offenses in the league, with no easy defensive alignment to contain it. Then it comes down to creative and off-balance play-calling by the OC.
I was surprised by that as well
The Panthers seem content with these three guys, nice mix of skills. Barnidge obviously has the most upside as he could be the whole package. I’d love to see Rosario used more like Colston, he has mad receiving skills
I've said before...
Rosario should be a WR3 guy, and Barnidge should be our main TE and find seams down the middle of the field. King is a blocker and goal line target, but that’s about it. If I had to get rid of one, it would be King because I see Rosario and Barnidge as better options in the passing game. (One of my favorite plays from last year was the catch and run Barnidge had against the Vikes where he took 2-3 guys with him about 25 yards before they finally brought him down.)
If Barnidge can learn to block like King, he will be the 2nd coming of Wesley Walls, IMO.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
by BW Smith on Jul 26, 2010 10:58 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
That was a GREAT play - one of the Panther hilights of the year.
They looked like little boys, trying to bring down their daddy in the back yard.
I’ve said before that Barnidge could develop into another Todd Christensen (late bloomer)
http://www.nfl.com/players/toddchristensen/profile?id=CHR290703
What I noticed
Most of the top teams, when it came to TE receiving yards, had the leagues top TE’s (at least most of them). So when we talk about yards it comes down to having a pass catching TE who can also block pretty well, and I feel Rosario is the closest thing we have to that type of TE right now. King is a red zone and blocking threat more than anything and Barnidge is a pure receiving threat as of now. I really think the Panthers will use the TE’s even more than last year (where TEs got the most receiving yards) and Barnidge will finally develop into a TE who can block and catch while adding to our receiving threats.
"All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain
King is still the starter, and will probably remain so until one of the other two shows they can not be a liability when we run the ball.
King isn’t as explosive a receiver as the other two, but he is reliable. He had 47 catches in 07, only his second year in the league. Rosario is a great receiver, but his blocking is not up to par. And on a John Fox team, that is the most important attribute for a TE. Which is why for now King’s grip on the starting spot is iron strong. He is a good blocker, and enough of a receiver to make a few good catches a game. Until one of the other two can develop their blocking skills, we’ll see the same rotation.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
I'm pro-Rosario, eventhough I can't back it up with numbers
The impression I get is that he is more athletic and has more of a nose for the ball. I think his numbers could be a lot higher if we targeted him more often. And his blocking seems to be improving as well.
We often run plays with 2 TEs, so I like having both King and Rosario on the field often. Barnidge on the other hand I’m yet to be impressed by.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 26, 2010 2:12 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I'm definitely with you there.
Rosario seems more natural, while Barnidge is more athletic. Maybe we could flip Barnidge for a pick, or in a package deal.
Ready for 2010 football already!!!
by Flowing Willow on Jul 27, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's not forget how crucial they are to our running game
King starts because to Fox a TE run blocking is far more important than being a receiver. 1st and 2nd down are typical running downs for us, and therefore whoever run blocks best starts.
I don’t see Rosario or Barnidge jumping Kimg as a blocker. And since Fox is not likely to often target TEs as receivers (even with 2 on the field) then it’s also not likely to see much change.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jul 26, 2010 2:27 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Don't you mean Rosario Dawson hahah
I remember after he caught the GW TD a couple years ago first week of the season vs SD and the commentators said the player of the game was Rosario Dawson.
She's always the player of my game.
Saw Sin City again recently….wow.
"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."
It's 2010, it's time to move the Panthers offense into the 21st century.
The entire passing game needs sn overhaul, but getting the TE’s more involved is a must. Barnidge is a solid blocking TE and has the best overall skills as a receiver. It’s time to get him on the field more on run downs to quit telegraphing when a pass is coming.
Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.




















