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Panthers Paw Prints: Where do the DB's rank?

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Good Monday morning, Carolina Panthers fans. I've actually got quite a few links today after the jump. Training camp starts next week, so hopefully Panthers news will start to ramp up over the next few days. I'm eager to see what the new Panthers team identity will look like (in terms of playing style and named-starters). I'm not (and most readers at CSR aren't) a big fan of Jason Cole, but he finally gave a slightly accurate review of the Panthers, so I included it here. Also, it sounds like some of the guys still rehabbing injuries are returning to full health. Also, there's a fantasy link after the jump on DeAngelo Williams (projecting 10-12 TD in 2010). There isn't one cohesive theme of the links today, but that's probably a good thing because big news at this time of year is usually bad news. Here are your links for Monday July 19, 2010:

 

Jason Cole finally ranks a Panthers position in the top half of the league:

DB rankings: Here's why Jets top the Pack. (Sports.Yahoo.com)
14. Carolina Panthers: The combination of CBs Chris Gamble(notes) and Richard Marshall(notes), FS Charles Godfrey(notes) and whoever fills the spot vacated by Chris Harris(notes) (Aaron Francisco(notes), Marcus Hudson(notes) and rookie Jordan Pugh(notes) will compete) has generally been a group that plays better than its individual talent. This unit isn’t bad, but it isn’t great. That said, the results are really good. Gamble and Marshall both do a good job of forcing turnovers, but neither is a shutdown guy. The secondary’s depth is good, but the primary concern is whether the lack of a great pass rush is going to expose this group. Generally, coach John Fox’s staff successfully does a nice job of mixing coverages from week to week. They better be great at it this season.

More after the jump.

Star-divide

It sounds like Wright is trying hard to get reps on offense, not just ST:

Wright hopes to be more than special teamer.(CharlotteObserver.com)
But the player with the best chance to contribute immediately might be the least-discussed among the new guys. Former North Carolina standout Wallace Wright figures to be one of the core players of the Panthers reconfigured special teams, but he isn't limiting himself to that role. ...

The Panthers haven't signed any veteran free agents to need positions this offseason, so it's ridiculous to think they'd buck that trend to sign the 36-year-old Owens, who caught 55 passes last year in Buffalo. ...

Davis, who blew the knee June 8 and had surgery June 12, said last week he's still in the early stages. He's started running in a pool - which keeps any impact or weight off the repaired joint - but doesn't know when he'll begin running on dry land.

In case you still aren't sold on how unlikely it is that T.O. will be coming to Carolina:

He's on the wrong side of ... (Darin Gantt via Twitter)
He's on the wrong side of the street at the intersection of declining and expensive, and exactly the kind of player they've avoided all year

Lots of topics in this story, but I highlighted the two on the Panthers. Glad to hear these guys are all healthy going into camp:

Owens has only himself to blame for his struggles finding a team. (NFL.com)
That both Carolina Panthers offensive tackles are healthy and will be ready for the start of the season. Jordan Gross and Jeff Otah are back, and from what I hear, Otah might be in the best shape of his life. ...

Panthers RB Jonathan Stewart is finally healthy from all his injuries, and will have a great year. I spent some time with him last week, and he is excited about the season.

I've already shared my thoughts on these videos:

Videos: Camp Preview: Offensive Line (Panthers.com)
Camp Preview: Offensive Line

Pat Y will be starting the NFC South Mailbag and Friday chat again this week:

NFC South mailbag. (ESPN.com)
Ricky in Los Angeles writes: Hey Pat, are you going to have training camp reports? Especially for the rookies?

Pat Yasinskas: Yes, sir. I’m working on my travel plans for training camp today. But I’ll be spending about three days in camp with the Saints, Falcons and Panthers and even more time with the Bucs because they’re in my backyard. Plus, I’ll be monitoring what’s going at each camp from wherever I’m at.

I don't post much from Bleacher Report, but this one was unusually optimistic (especially from a non-Panthers fan):

It's Not All Hate: Carolina Panthers. (BleacherReport.com)
In my opinion, Carolina is better than a middle-of-the-road team, and there is a very good chance that they will enjoy a winning record this season. You heard it from a die-hard Miami Dolphins fan. The Panthers should be a dangerous opponent for every team on their schedule in 2010. There—we may recommence hatred for one another at this time.

Not thrilled about this article, but hey it's fifth down blog at the New York Times:

Carolina Panthers 2010 Season Preview. (fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com)
Bottom Line The Panthers are about to learn that saving money is usually a great way to lose games. Normally, teams in this position can build for the future. But with John Fox most likely gone in 2011, it’s hard to know how to build.

I think I've read these quotes elsewhere before, but I can't seem to remember:

Armanti Edwards a big question mark for Carolina Panthers. (IndependentMail.com)
"The versatility he brings … he’s an athlete, a football player," Hurney said. "He plays the game with an intensity and a toughness that you like. He’s got speed and he’s just a competitive, tough football player. "Time’s going to tell with him, but you just get a feeling he’s got something." The time could be now based on the way Edwards worked during mini-camp. He caught the ball, ran the ball and fielded punts and kicks. Although playing positions he didn’t play with the Mountaineers, he was a quick study. "It was an adjustment getting the routes and cuts down," Edwards said. "But at the same time I had a little bit of knowledge from playing quarterback; I can get the coverages down pretty quickly."

I linked to their post on outside zone runs a few weeks ago, here are inside zone runs (great story):

Rufio's playbook: The Inside Zone Run. (DawgsByNature.com)
Once teams establish the Outside Zone runs as successful plays, defenders usually overreact to the offensive linemen's first steps. The defense sees the offensive line trying to "reach" the defenders, the defenders usually fly toward the sideline. That's the perfect time to dial up the Inside Zone. The idea with the Inside Zone is mimic the first few steps of the stretch play almost exactly, but then to cut the run back up the middle or to the weakside when the defense reacts to the sideline to stop the stretch play.

Fantasy Football Link of the Day:

It's a long quote, I liked the 1300 or so yards and 10-12 TD's, so I had to share it.

Article - DeAngelo Williams, RB, Carolina Panthers. (KFFL.com)
2010 Projected NFL/Fantasy Football Statistics

Run Att    Run Yds      Run TD     Rec      Rec Yds    Rec TD    Tot TD

Lo Hi        Lo Hi           Lo Hi        Lo Hi    Lo Hi         Lo Hi        Lo Hi

232 272    1248 1398   10 12        26 32   203 250      0 2          10 14

Pros: The Memphis product has enjoyed two straight seasons of at least 1,100 rushing yards in a split backfield. A career average of 5.1 yards per carry is impressive, and Williams is a threat to take it the distance on any play. He missed three games last year and still racked up 1,117 rushing yards and seven scores, giving him 25 TDs in his last 29 games. He underwent ankle cleanup surgery and is expected to be at 100 percent for training camp. The Panthers have a strong offensive line and a power-running mentality. With a rather inexperienced quarterback in Matt Moore likely to start, head coach John Fox will probably rely more on the run than usual. Williams is in a contract year and wants a big deal.

Cons: Will defenders focus solely on stopping the run? Williams shares the backfield with Jonathan Stewart, who has shown to be beastly at times. Ankle injuries can be tricky to recover from. Williams averaged less than 3.0 yards per carry in four games last season and failed to score in his final five games. He is just an OK receiver and isn't generally utilized much in the passing game.

Fantasy tip: Consider Williams a nice consolation prize after all of the more sure bets come off the board. We're probably higher on him than most services are. His average draft position is 13th overall, but we wouldn't have a probably drafting him ahead of Steven Jackson in non-PPR formats. Williams is borderline undervalued, but it is understandable given the risks involved.

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The Jason Cole underestimation train is still steaming along the rails to the land of misconception.

4th ranked pass defense in the NFL = 14th ranked secondary? Something doesn’t compute.

To me, this is just another in a long line of Jason Cole underestimations… as time goes on I feel like he’s getting these rankings from the Madden ratings, not really anything tangible.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Jul 19, 2010 8:20 AM EDT reply actions  

I think he's ranking the DBs as individuals not the secondary

He said their results are “really good”. 14th would be average not really good. He’s trying to make the point that the individual talent is average, but as a unit they perform much better. And I agree.

Also the point about potentially being hurt by a weak pass rush is valid.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jul 19, 2010 10:46 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Same

Sherrod Martin should bump it up at least to 11 though, right? Right?

Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.

by Flowing Willow on Jul 19, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe once the seasons underway

We base our opinions of him off of what? 2 or 3 games? I’d be surprised if an analyst would bump up our rankings based on him at this point.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jul 19, 2010 1:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Don't rely on Jason Cole being too consistent though...

He calls Eric Berry ‘the key’ to the Chiefs secondary… and he hasn’t taken a snap yet.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Jul 19, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was a bit surprised he forgot about Martin

But mentioned Francisco and Pughs

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jul 19, 2010 3:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Absolutely, me too.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Jul 19, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jason Cole is still way off. Way Way off.

First off… read this little tidbit from the list:

The combination of CBs Chris Gamble(notes) and Richard Marshall(notes), FS Charles Godfrey(notes) and whoever fills the spot vacated by Chris Harris(notes) (Aaron Francisco(notes), Marcus Hudson(notes) and rookie Jordan Pugh(notes) will compete) has generally been a group that plays better than its individual talent.

This is laughable. What? Does Sherrod Martin not exist? He was a second round pick correct? But APPARENTLY he isn’t competing for the job at safety. Yes, Sherrod is listed as a CB on our official site… but if Cole knew anything about the team whatsoever (he doesn’t), he would know that Martin played Safety last season.

Even if you look beyond that, as James stated, we ranked 4th in the NFL last season on pass defense. Maybe Cole just loves Chris Harrris that much? Apparently not, because he doesn’t even mention the Hitman when he ranks the bears 29th.

In conclusion, Jason Cole, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers

by Tater596 on Jul 19, 2010 8:46 AM EDT reply actions  

No Sherrod Martin on the DB review
No Charles Johnson on the DE review

I would suggest Jason Cole at least know THE STARTERS in order to write a national article. Heck, that’s why I wouldn’t write about the Seattle Seahawks, because I can admit that I don’t know their team… what’s his excuse?

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Jul 19, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

It just makes me all the more anxious for the season to start

So this super-douche can start eating his words.

He WILL know who both Sherrod Martin and Charles Johnson are by the end of the season… he can count on that.

Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers

by Tater596 on Jul 19, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

How do you know Johnson and Martin will be starters?

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jul 19, 2010 1:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I like the Billy Madison Reference

I wish for once a football analyst would contribute something that is remotely accurate. Our secondary should be better than last year. Martin is a big upgrade over Harris and Godfrey was playing lights out towards the end of the season. It was Richard Marshall’s first year of starting, so he should gain ground. Plus, Captain should be First Lieutenant now in his second year. Overall, the DB’s stats are based on their skill but also on the defense and offense as a whole. So I’ll give Cole a wide berth on this ranking but the breakdown should be more accurate. I do think we will rank better than 14th but maybe not as good as 4th.

by Deuceklinco on Jul 19, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

First Lieutenant should be a promotion.

by Deuceklinco on Jul 19, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he was in the Army, Marines, or Air Force, his next promotion would be Major.
If he was in the Navy, his next promotion would be Rear Admiral.

Once he get’s his 4th INT this year, we’ll promote him to Major, since NC doesn’t have a naval base. But, SC does, so I guess he could be promoted to Rear Admiral, but that would be a Major pain in the Rear. So let’s go with Major.

Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.

by Sniff on Jul 19, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why would the Navy...

…wish to encourage stereotypes by using the title, “Rear Admiral?” I think their PR department needs to work on that.

by Mr_Sticky on Jul 20, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well as it is...

The seamen report to the rear admiral on the poop deck.

Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers

by Tater596 on Jul 20, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

LMAO ... is that after they go to the Head?

All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner.
Red Skelton

by Rick Bates on Jul 20, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I feel 8th or 9th would have been fair.

Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers

by Tater596 on Jul 19, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Last time I checked, this was a blog where we discussed football

It’s the offseason. There isn’t much to talk about. So, we discuss the hilarious inaccuracies of some “analyst” who is somehow getting paid to write about something he knows nothing about. Or at least on a hastily written list where very little research is done.

So… No. I won’t let it go.

And here is my LOLcat reply…

And no… not implying you’re a whore. I just find this picture hilarious.

Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers

by Tater596 on Jul 20, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

alright, that is hilarious.

Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers

by Tater596 on Jul 21, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Love it! Silly English Kkkkniggits.

All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner.
Red Skelton

by Rick Bates on Jul 21, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thomas Davis-LB- Panthers Jul. 18 – 10:50 am et
   
Thomas Davis (ACL tear) has started running in a pool.

Davis had his second ACL surgery in his right knee on June 12 and it’s unclear when he’ll start running on dry land. The snake-bitten linebacker is still holding out hope of contributing this season, but that would be a borderline miracle.
Source: First steps
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/07/18/1569404/wright-hopes-to-be-more-than-special.html

You’ve got to love his tenacity and heart, but this is just ridiculous. 5 weeks post surgery. I hope I’m wrong, but he’s setting himself up for another injury, if he keeps pushing that knee with a desire to play.

Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.

by Sniff on Jul 19, 2010 10:31 AM EDT reply actions  

+1

If he comes back too soon and tears it again not only will it destroy his career, it will literally ruin his life.

I tore my MCL junior year of HS, and still when the weather changes, it’s about to rain etc it aches heavily and I need to pop some pills. I cant even imagine what a 3 time torn ACL would feel like.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James Dator on Jul 19, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see why everyones bent out of shape over these lackluster rankings

Seems like it’s to be expected. Teams that go young and cheap never get much initial respect. We are the Falcons 2 years ago. We just have to go out and prove that we can play, then will be the amazing underdog story of 2010.

Even Beason on NFLN mentioned being the hunters not the hunted this year. And the good news is that we typically do well in this role.

But based on our offseason moves, I don’t expect anybody to be giving us much props at this point.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jul 19, 2010 2:02 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

will = we’ll

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jul 19, 2010 2:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure everyone is just pissed about the total lack of research put forth by Mr. Cole

Or the dismissive comments about some of our personnel/positions with no reasoning to back it up. Or the fact we are diehard, bleeding teal and blue fans. Or the….

Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.

by Sniff on Jul 19, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or the dismissive comments about some of our personnel/positions with no reasoning to back it up.

This is what I’m most irritated by. Even when John White on CSR has him on and point blank asks him about the rating, he’s vague. “I just don’t see much talent there.” Really? Why? Elaborate please, that’s all I ask.

by SlayerGhaleon on Jul 19, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

There were similar complaints about the Bradswaw comment

But until these guys prove themselves I don’t expect much from the national media. Our running backs and O-line get a lot of respect. But that’s because they’ve played at a high level for 2 consecutive years now.

Other than them, Smitty and Beason, I don’t really expect them to be touted much.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jul 19, 2010 3:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Do you even read your own posts?
I don’t see why everyones bent out of shape over these lackluster rankings

Broke a rule about responding to any of your posts. Forgot about you changing your name back. Won’t happen again.

Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.

by Sniff on Jul 19, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude, what did I do to offend you?

Are you upset because I don’t always see everything as rosy as some others? I’m just giving you my opinion. Not trying to be arrogant about it. I have no problem admitting that you could be totally right about everything this season, and me completely wrong.

But until then I might disagree with you occasionally. What’s the problem with that?

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jul 19, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sniff has become a resident sour puss the last week or so.

For the first couple months I was at this site, I hardly saw anyone insult another poster. Even the shots at players, analysts, etc. were mellow. The past month or so, though, it seems like this place has begun to spiral into what every other forum on the whole internet is; a cease pool of crap. Posters are taking shots at other posters. People are saying really horrible things about analysts and other sports related people. If it gets any worse, I’m going to have to leave ‘cause I don’t want it affecting my own disposition. I’ve already lost control a couple times ’cause of some things others have said to me.

stuff 'bout stuff.

by silver82blade on Jul 20, 2010 4:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, dont jump ship just yet!

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jul 20, 2010 7:10 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

We need some actual football to take the edge off

I just picked up NCAA 11 for the PS3, and it is helping me curb my appetite for the gridiron. Unfortunately… I can’t play it until 5 oclock! Grrr…

Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers

by Tater596 on Jul 20, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jul 20, 2010 10:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

It's the offseason bro, don't take any of it personally.

Sniff is high strung, we just live with it. We love him anyways.

Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.

by Flowing Willow on Jul 20, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

He won't even comment to me

He thinks I’m the spawn of Satan

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jul 20, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

The power of Christ compels you!….

"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."

by ERL on Jul 21, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

You can mask a lot of problems with a solid running game.

See the 2008 Atlanta Falcons, or 2008 Baltimore Ravens as recent examples. Both teams had 1st year head coaches, a rookie at QB, Atlanta had very little on defense, yet they both managed to be playoff teams because they could run the ball under any circumstance, in any conditions, against virtually any opponent.

That’s why I’m not really concerned with our perceived deficiencies.

"If you ask Jets' CB Darrelle Revis, there is no one who is harder to cover one-on-one than Steve Smith. That has to mean something coming from last year's runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year."

by ERL on Jul 19, 2010 3:26 PM EDT reply actions  

And both were also didn't receive lofty expectations

I’m actually glad things like this are being written. This team seems to be better as the underdog. Better at winning when they’re not suppose to.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jul 19, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow. Only one glass of wine and I’m already slurring my words. Remove “were” from the subject.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jul 19, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Glad to post with CSR for the first time instead of just reading...

I came across this site a week ago and have never seen so many Panthers updates at once. Haven’t left since.

As a 2.5 year resident of New Orleans I hope everyone appreciates my profile pic of Jon Beason blasting Jeremy Shockey as much as I do.

Must agree with the general concensus, Jason Cole is 2nd rate.

by SwampPanther on Jul 19, 2010 10:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Looks like he’s about to whiz on him. That’s gross.

stuff 'bout stuff.

by silver82blade on Jul 19, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Welcome to CSR !!

Good luck dealing with all those insufferable SB Who Dats. ;-)

by patosan on Jul 20, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hehe, yeah. That would be “shockey-ing”.

by SwampPanther on Jul 19, 2010 10:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Jason Cole is 10 spots off. Not surprising.

+1 for Matt Moore

by Smitty89 on Jul 19, 2010 11:45 PM EDT reply actions  

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