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Panthers Offseason Position Review - DT

There is no position that will receive more scrutiny at this training camp than defensive tackle. The Panthers will start camp with a collection of young and upcoming players, at least in their eyes. The truth is we have little to base our optimism on. The most experienced Panther in the group is Tank Tyler, who played in 6 games with the Panthers last season after coming over in a trade with KC. The remaining players have even less playing experience in the last year. 

Ed Johnson has played in 5 games the past two seasons and Corvey Irvin spent his rookie season on IR. That leaves 3rd year player Nick Hayden who has three starts in his two seasons and Louis Leonard, who played all of one game for the Panthers before landing on IR as well. For these reasons at least one pundit has called the Panthers defensive line the worst in the NFL.

32. Carolina Panthers: How the mighty have fallen. A few years ago, the Panthers had a brutally tough line featuring Julius Peppers and Kris Jenkins. No, they have try-hard guy Tyler Brayton(notes) to go with a bunch of JAGs (Just A Guy) like Nick Hayden(notes), Louis Leonard(notes) and Everette Brown(notes). Rookie Greg Hardy(notes) has potential, but he needs to get his head on straight.

I think much of this ranking is based on the loss of DE Julius Peppers more so than the two DT's Maake Kemoeatu and Damione Lewis. Yet the Panther brass must think they have some players in this group and I'm inclined to trust them going into TC. If they end up disappointed in what they have Furney won't hesitate to pull the trigger on a trade or cut down casualty.

Of course the members of this site has a more positive outlook on this group. If you're a stats guy here is a good post by James that shows that by extrapolating the limited stats over the course of a season we might not have the drop off in performance many outsiders expect.

As I pondered the odds of which players are most likely to start I found I couldn't give any one player more than a  80% chance to start. Let's look at the candidates:

Tyler_2_medium

via www.panthers.com


Tank Tyler 6'2" 306 25 yrs old
, 98% chance to make the roster, 80% chance to start

When the KC Chiefs switched to a 3-4 defensive Tyler was a square peg in a round hole. The Panthers didn't hesitate to bolster their suddenly thin defensive line. Tyler now finds himself the senior player at the position for  the Panthers and stands to start at RDT. He will be challenged at the position by Corvey Irvin and Derek Landri, both who could elevate their standing with a tremendous preseason. My money is on Tyler and a break out year where the new starter gets 4 sacks, 40 tackles and recognition as a force on passing downs.

more after the jump...

Star-divide

Louis Leonard 6'4" 325lbs 25 yrs, 98% chance to make the roster, 75% chance to start

Leonard_medium

via www.panthers.com


Leonard is a classic LDT in a 4-3 defense, another guy who suddenly found himself in Cleveland's new  3-4 defensive and no place to go. Here's what we could find on Leonard after the Panthers traded for him just before the start of the 2009 season. Unfortunately Leonard played one game before losing the rest of his season to a leg injury. Yet based on his short time in pads he made enough of an impression on the staff to think he could replace Kemo. He will get every chance to do just that.  I fully expect the big guy to make us forget all about he guy he replaced.

Ed Johnson 6'2" 296 26 yrs, 80% chance to make the roster, 20% chance to Start

Johnson is the real wild card of the group. He played well as a rookie for the Colts, getting 16 starts before off the field issues derailed his bright career the following season. He's spent the past two seasons trying to find himself. He comes to Carolina with the blessing of DC Ron Meeks, who hopes to resurrect the rookie who showed a knack for collapsing the pocket and being tough against the run.  He may not start but he will be in the rotation and have a chance to prove his doubters wrong.

Corvey Irvin 6'3" 302 lbs 25 yrs, 90% chance to make the roster, 10% chance to start

Irvin was a feel good story after the 2009 draft; small town kid overcomes adversity to rise from a lower tier program to start at SEC power UGA. Here's what we had to say about Irvin after the 2009 draft:

Irvin was known more as a run stopper in college, a ‘high-motor’ guy who could potentially develop into a pass rusher if he can combine his long arms with improved technique. Irvin was not highly recruited going into college yet he beat the odds to get to where he is today.

Irvin's rookie season came to a close as quick as it started as he was the second of three Panthers DT's that would end up on IR. Though Irvin's roster spot is probably safe the Panthers are usually cautious with unproven players coming off an injury. Irvin will have to play hard and perform on a weekly basis to earn a jersey.

Nick Hayden 6'4' 294 lbs 24 yrs, 25% chance to make roster, 2% chance to start

Hayden is a player that has gotten the most out of his opportunities but I think in the end the Panthers will feel he has little upside. Hayden is a former 6th round pick that was signed to the practice squad as a rookie but then  made the roster after two DT's were lost to IR in preseason. In his two starts in 2009 Hayden was often over matched at LDT though you can never accuse him of not trying. The high-motor player plays with fire and though he will battle long adds yet again its hard to bet against him.Okay, I think his run in Carolina will end before the season starts.

Derek Landri 6'2" 290 26 yrs, 20% chance to make the roster, 5% chance to start (pictured)

443260501_medium

via jacksonville.com


Landri is a former 5th round pick by Jacksonville who brings a surprising amount of experience for a guy that was claimed off waivers at 26 yrs old. He played a good bit his first two season but was waived in December of 2009, I imagine to make room for an injury replacement. The Panthers picked him up the next day and now the only question that remains is whether the Jaguars made a good decision or not. The Panthers will keep four DT's so Landri has to show he worth the risk of dumping a prospect like Corvey Irvin or Nick Hayden for him to stick. I'm not liking his chances at this point but I think he has a realistic chance none the less.

 

Andre Neblett 6'0" 295 lbs 22 yrs, 1% chance to make the roster, 20% chance ot make the practice squad

Neblett comes with a fairly impressive resume in spite of coming from a sub-par Temple program. Here's a scouting report from Big Cat Country. I could paint a very positive picture at this point and talk about how he really could make the roster if he does this or that. Naaaa...he's simply training camp meat with a slight chance to make the practice squad.

1244011033k4ciuc_medium

via www.dreamstime.com


 

 

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I don't know what to say to any of that ...

… ‘cause I don’t know what to expect from any of them. I think Ed Johnson is the designated Toniu Fonoti this year though. Someone always comes in to camp with some good upside, but for some reason under performs, whether it’s due to physical conditioning or just slacking off. Then, all the fans are shocked when he’s cut. It’ll happen to someone. It may or may not be Johnson.

stuff 'bout stuff.

by silver82blade on Jul 14, 2010 9:37 PM EDT reply actions  

A key will be whether he is in shape or not

If Johnson can get in the best shape of his life then he has a real chance

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by Jaxon on Jul 14, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, this group could be the death of this team

I feel almost everything on defense starts right here. If these guys can’t collapse the pocket then our young DEs will have a hard time running around a huge pocket to rush the passer. And if they can’t press the QB, the QB will have ample time to make throws that our DBs can’t make a play on.

And we witnessed last year what happens when your DTs can’t stop the run.

I’m worried. But if they can perform at least middle of the road, then that will be a huge step in the right direction.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Jul 14, 2010 9:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Hey that meat is intended for Tony Pike!

Don’t go feeding it to our DTs.

I think upside is the key word to keep in mind when we look at our defensive line. We have a lot of young guys with a good solid base of talent. They are unproven, but skilled. All of them are hungry to earn a roster spot, and will keep that motor running throughout the season, because none of their jobs are safe. Competition brings out the best in players, let’s hope the constant threat of losing your starting spot to someone else is enough to keep these guys motivated and playing at a high level.

Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers

by Tater596 on Jul 14, 2010 11:30 PM EDT reply actions  

All that matters to me:
Yet the Panther brass must think they have some players in this group and I’m inclined to trust them going into TC.

by bmoyer on Jul 15, 2010 8:11 AM EDT reply actions  

LOL love the 'camp meat'

Shouldn’t camp meat come in a can though?

Nice writeup Jaxon. This is one of those ‘boom or bust’ type situations. Honestly, until we see how Leonard and Tyler can handle a starting load, we wont know for sure.

Both have had their moments, but there is a history of guys who look okay, even mediocre in camp and practice turn into beasts on Sunday (Matt Moore anyone). I’ll remain optimistic, just because I think the Panthers scouting staff have earned the benefit of the doubt, but I’m unsure like the rest of us.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.

by James The Aussie on Jul 15, 2010 8:24 AM EDT reply actions  

I love the optimism, but I fear for our team.

This is the weakest position on our team. A completely new line. We’re either going to be good or suck. xD

"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn

by Revshawn on Jul 15, 2010 8:39 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm hoping "Good enough" is good enough.

With the LB corps and Secondary the Panthers have, the D-line needs to be disruptive enough, and make some timely plays, to help the rest of the Defense get the other team off the field.

I’m hopeful that Meeks’ “bend but don’t break” / swarming Defense can cover the occasional lapse.

by panthersnbraves on Jul 15, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m looking forward to seeing what Corey Irvin can do. His season got cut down before we could even get a look at him last year.

by SlayerGhaleon on Jul 15, 2010 9:32 AM EDT reply actions  

My concern is not so much about talent

But can Leonard/Tyler stay healthy for 16 games?

Do or do not. There is no try.

by ERL on Jul 15, 2010 9:45 AM EDT reply actions  

How about, uh ....

“I make poop sounds with my hands. Hee hee.”

stuff 'bout stuff.

by silver82blade on Jul 15, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Powk fwied wice? Ooohhh Vewy good sir. *bows*

“Ack! This isn’t my mouthpiece… It’s a lemon slice! Curse you Urban Meyer and your pranks!”

“You mean to tell me their starting right tackle is out for the game…? Eggggggggscellent.”

“And this is how you properly shape ground beef into a hamburger.”

“One final squeeze, and that was the last they saw of Brett Favre’s heart.”

Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers

by Tater596 on Jul 15, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

The douche that wrote it is named Jason Cole

He is all about panning us this offseason with his lack of knowledge.

Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers

by Tater596 on Jul 15, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Jaxon, before this year FSU's S&C program was really 2nd class...

We fell a long way from the 90’s…

Football is played with an oblong ball. Take your roundball and GTFO...

by NaGaNole on Jul 15, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another positive...

This young group of guys will be going up against arguably one of the best offensive lines in the NFL evdery day in practice, so in theory, that should make them better.

by deacon_fan on Jul 15, 2010 11:55 AM EDT reply actions  

+1

Good point

I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill

Dwayne Jarret is not a bust!

by STEVEN 785 on Jul 15, 2010 12:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

+2 If they can hold their own in practice, they'll be fine. If not, the coaches will see it and

do whatever they have to (stunts, blitz packages, move Brayton inside, whatever). I just want them either to be able collapse a pocket or have the speed to get through the gaps and into the backfield. They can’t let Brees or Ryan have room to step up consistently. I’m less concerned about run stuffing, because our LBs and secondary know how to tackle. Did you guys see that video of Beason training? It actually has me thinking that we might be better with him at the WIL, where he’ll be more in space. BEAST!!

I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde

by Rick Bates on Jul 15, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

The more work the linebackers have to do in the run game, the more play action stuff opens up.

stuff 'bout stuff.

by silver82blade on Jul 15, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good point

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by Jaxon on Jul 15, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stopping the run will be a struggle. No matter how good you LBs are, you need a solid wall at DT. Panthers expect Steve Smith to be back by the end of preseason

by Guru506 on Jul 15, 2010 2:04 PM EDT reply actions  

As much sense as that makes, when I did the tackles by player analysis...

I was surprised to see that the Mike is usually far ahead of anyone else. The next four are usually DBs and other LBs. Surprisingly, you don’t start seeing defensive linemen in the tackles stat numbers typically until the 6th or 7th spot.

I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde

by Rick Bates on Jul 15, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unless you are Ndumokong Suh, and you lead your team in tackles during your junior and senior seasons…nasty.

Do or do not. There is no try.

by ERL on Jul 15, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Makes me think of a good question...

Who would you trade for Suh? At what point would you decline a trade? D-Will? Smitty? Offer me a package…

Do or do not. There is no try.

by ERL on Jul 15, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

For all anyone knows Suh just may be another bust. I never thought Vernon Gholston would be a bust, yet here we are. I wouldn’t trade an established star for him, and that’s what it would take for them to even consider it. Although, I doubt they’d take a 31 year old Steve Smith, even if he is still a top receiver for a few years.

stuff 'bout stuff.

by silver82blade on Jul 15, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

If anyone is can't miss, its this guy.

Gholston is not even in the same galaxy. The Lions are not going to trade him for anything, I was just curious to see how much or how little Panther fans value him.

Do or do not. There is no try.

by ERL on Jul 16, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just the fact he was drafted by the Lions means he has a 50% chance of being a bust. The Lions having a good defense just doesn’t make sense. The laws of physics across the universe would unravel and rip space-time apart.

stuff 'bout stuff.

by silver82blade on Jul 17, 2010 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

LOL... could it be that they're maybe 2 years away from a good defense.

Dec. 12, 2012… Lions defense destroys the world??

I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde

by Rick Bates on Jul 17, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I think Revelation mentions something about a lion.

stuff 'bout stuff.

by silver82blade on Jul 17, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh shit! Eat, drink, and be merry...

I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde

by Rick Bates on Jul 17, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Elite DT > Elite RB

I mean, I’d trade Michael Turner in a heartbeat for him…

Football is played with an oblong ball. Take your roundball and GTFO...

by NaGaNole on Jul 15, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

The key to winning nowadays is having a disruptive DL.

Do or do not. There is no try.

by ERL on Jul 16, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Of course we don't know how elite he really is.

He is still just a rookie after all.

Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.

by Flowing Willow on Jul 16, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look how many OL come out of the Big 12...

He dominated them all. Unreal player. Think of Kris Jenkins with a faster first step…

Football is played with an oblong ball. Take your roundball and GTFO...

by NaGaNole on Jul 16, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rookie......

Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.

by Flowing Willow on Jul 17, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not all rookies are created equal..

Although I agree that DT is probably the most difficult for a rookie to make an impact…

Football is played with an oblong ball. Take your roundball and GTFO...

by NaGaNole on Jul 17, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

True, and I fully expect King Kong Suh to make an impact.

I’m just not trading proven players for him at this point. :)

Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.

by Flowing Willow on Jul 18, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

The best hope for DT

I think is simply the system Meeks runs. It calls for a lot of substitutions and fresher DTs with less talent can wear on an offensive line. I think that is what happened at the end of the season last year. There was a rediculous amout of DT rotation to the point that on some passing downs I saw Brayton at DT

by Spanglerb on Jul 15, 2010 2:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Tyler, Leonard, Irvin, Hayden, and a player to be named later

Just my feeling about who we go into the season with.

I think Hayden is better than he gets credit for. The poor guy was put out there as a nose tackle, twice! He’s a classic under tackle, and in that role can give us quality minutes in relief. If Leonard gets hurt, I see Tyler sliding over and Irvin taking his spot.

by Cyberjag on Jul 15, 2010 3:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Player to be named later....

You think Warren Sapp could still play?

Unofficial Agent for Armanti Edwards, WR #10, Carolina Panthers

by Tater596 on Jul 16, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm definitely worried

The line I’m hoping to hear from sportscasters mid season:
“You know, these guys [Carolina d-line] have been adequate enough to not mess up the rest of the defense and ________ is turning into a star.”

Cause I seriously doubt that 2 or more guys look like real stars buy the end of the year. I can see next year everyone talking about “flashes of potential” any of these guys showed during the season. Bottom line is, someone outperforms the others in the statline. Then they start seeing more coverage designed for them, and if they really have star potential, they keep finding ways around it. Otherwise, it opens up holes for the rest of the guys, and all in all, it could be successful. As for who breaks out first, my money would be on Leonard right now, but these guys all look close together as guys with potential that should probably be given a shot. Unless one guy breaks away from the pack and starts having plays designed to cover him, it’s easier for O-lines to cover the whole d-line.

I like the talk about working against the O-line. I always thought the thing that made Peppers and Jordan Gross so good was them working against eachother in practice.

And the Suh talk was good too. One of the reasons a lot of people were talking about McCoy more than Suh before the draft was the concern that he may not translate as well to the pro level. No one questioned his talent, but he has a unique skillset that had some people thinking that he may have trouble fitting in in most NFL defenses.

by albesir on Jul 16, 2010 11:53 AM EDT reply actions  

Very good breakdown, albesir

If anyone is going to breakout by the end of the year, the candidates, in my mind, are C Johnson, L Leonard, T Tyler, E Brown, or E Norwood.

The most likely out of those guys are: Brown and Norwood.

I just don’t see any potential difference makers at DT. That was something I thought we did not address during the draft and early on in free agency.

I don’t think signing Ed Johnson and resigning Tyler Brayton are the only moves you can make. Unfortunately, I fully expect our D-line to struggle, especially early in the season.

Do or do not. There is no try.

by ERL on Jul 16, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would add Hardy to that list...

if he stays healthy, that is.

I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde

by Rick Bates on Jul 16, 2010 5:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Don't rule out adding a couple of vet DT's off waivers like Hollis Thomas last year.......

A lot of time left before the final 53 are set. Also, injuries always play a part.

by magicman56 on Jul 18, 2010 7:30 AM EDT reply actions  

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