Panthers Position Review- Defensive End
by James Dator on Jun 28, 2010 8:15 AM EDT
in Panther Position Reviews
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PrintOnce a stalwart position for the Carolina Panthers, DE is now in a state of rebuilding with the departure of Julius Peppers. The mantle is now passed to the new generation of ends who hope to emulate the positive aspects of players like Julius Peppers and Mike Rucker.
While this new crop of players are familiar faces, their roles will be greatly increased in 2010 and they will be required to step up and fill the void left by Peppers who some think to be the NFL's best DE.
Today we look at the 7 players vying for spots on Carolina's roster. We'll asses their chances and try and work out who we'll see in 2010. So join me...
After the jump
Tyler Brayton: 6'6", 280lbs; 8th year- Colorado
Tyler Brayton returns in 2010 and by this point we know what we're going to get from him. Brayton set career highs in almost every category in 2009 and hope to keep up this form after being rewarded with a fresh three year extension. What he gives the Panthers is a reliable run stopping DE who can, and will make the occasional impact on pass rush, but really not an impact player at the position. Tyler will be required to remain the reliable veteran on one side while he's spelled on 3rd down and other players are relied on to be the sizzle to his steak
100% chance to make the roster, 85% chance to start
Charles Johnson: 6'2", 275lbs; 4th year- Georgia
After waiting for three seasons Johnson is getting his shot. The former 3rd round draft pick has proven to be very effective in limited time posting 10 sacks in the last two seasons. Johnson is a highly skilled pass rusher and seems to have a natural instinct for getting to the quarterback. What remains to be seen is Johnson ability to handle the first three downs and get the stops required in the run game. Up until now Johnson has done everything the team has wanted from him and I think he'll have a surprising season to most fans in 2010.
100% chance to make the roster, 75% chance to start
Everette Brown: 6'1", 256lbs; 2nd year- Florida State
The player the Panthers chose to spend their 2010 1st round pick on is back for his second season and looks ready to make an impact. There have been several reports backed up with video that Brown has added between ten and fifteen pounds of muscle to his frame in the offseason and looks more physically ready to play 4-3 defensive end. Though Brown played in very limited time he did put up impressive rookie numbers in several categories beating out the vast majority of other 4-3 DE's from the 2009 draft. In this upcoming season he figures to be spelled with Tyler Brayton on 3rd down, but there is a possibility that if he makes the expected leaps and strides that he could leap an incumbent starter.
100% chance to make the roster, 20% chance to start
Eric Norwood: 6'1", 241lbs; Rookie- South Carolina
Though Norwood is the definition of a ‘tweener' it's likely he will see some time at DE in the 2010 season in pass rush situations. Norwood is blazing fast and has fantastic raw abilities, but he's an NFL project. Norwood will need to spend some time in an NFL conditioning program (much like Everette Brown did last year) because in his current frame he is a little small to be playing DE with any regularity. That being said, he's definitely the kind of player who the Panthers like who will flat out play and hit someone in the mouth when needed.
90% chance to make the roster, 0% chance to start
Greg Hardy: 6'4", 277lbs; Rookie- Ole Miss
Hardy is the enigma of the current group. Once hailed to be the best player in the 2010 draft by Sports Illustrated he fell drastically due to injury questions and a poor combine showing. Despite these concerns few thought Hardy to fall any further than the late 3rd or 4th round, so when the Panthers selected Hardy in the 6th round he was regarded as a steal at the position. Prior to the injury issues Hardy was drawing strong and warranted comparisons to Julius Peppers. Much was made of his 4.87 time in the 40 yard dash as scouts thought it could be an indicator to a poor work ethic; early reports out of the Panthers' OTAs is that Hardy is working hard and is extremely fast. Keep an eye on him.
85% chance to make the roster, 5% chance to start
Hilee Taylor: 6'2", 250lbs, 3rd year- North Carolina
The 3rd year player has been a solid backup the last two seasons and has shown flashes the last two pre-seasons. It's going to be an uphill battle for Taylor who looks to be a victim of circumstance rather than due to any fault of his own. I think a lot of his fate as a Panthers hinges on rookie Eric Norwood. If the Panthers see Norwood projecting as an OLB during training camp then Hilee Taylor's chances to remain with the Panthers rise greatly, but if Norwood looks like he can be an NFL DE it will be tough to justify keeping six players at the position.
20% chance to make the roster, 0% chance to start
Eric Moore: 6'4", 268lbs, 5th year- Florida State
The former 5th round pick Eric Moore has bounced from three different teams before signing a future/reserve contract with the Panthers in January of 2010. I believe Moore was brought in as a safety valve in case Peppers left and the bottom fell out of the draft and the Panthers didn't land any targets. As it stands now Eric Moore will have to put in a monumental effort to land a spot on the roster and with the talent in front of him I just don't see it happening.
0% chance to make the roster
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I still say Everette Brown starts.
No way they spend a 1st round pick on him and then sit him on the bench his 2nd year. If he is a backup his 3rd year, we have to start thinking bust. I’m sorry. That’s too much wasted time from a 1st round pick. They’ve never had a 1st round bust under Fox, and I don’t see them starting now. He will start and he will be a force.
On a side note, should I just tell Eric Moore to go home, or …. lol. Can’t you at least give him a 1% chance?
stuff 'bout stuff.
he did cost us a first round pick, but technically he is a second round pick...
by SouthernPanther on Jun 28, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
He was a 2nd round pick last year. This year he is a first round rookie as far as I’m concerned, ’cause they spent a ’10 first round pick. He needs to start playing like a first round pick either this year or next year.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Jun 28, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
He played like a 1st round rookie last year
Compare his stats with Robert Ayers, Aaron Maybin and other 1st round 4-3 DE’s. He was right there even in his limited time.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
by James Dator on Jun 28, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Just ‘cause every other first round DE stunk, that doesn’t mean Brown is off the hook and can stink too. Peppers had 12 sacks, 5 forced fumbles, and a pick in 12 games his rookie year. I realize Brown wasn’t a top first round pick, but let’s raise the bar a little shall we. I think a rookie first round DE should be pushing 8 sacks.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Jun 28, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
How many 1st round rookie DE's have had a 8 sack rookie season?
Look at the 1st round 4-3 DE’s over the last 15 years:
- Kevin Carter: No
- Mike Mamula: No
- Hugh Douglas: Yes
- Cedric Jones: No
- Regan Upshaw: No
- Duane Clemmons: No
- Marcus Jones: No
- Kenny Holmes: No
- Jon Harris: No
- Trevor Price: No
- Andre Wadsworth: No
- Grant Wistrom: No
- Jevon Kearse: Yes
- Ebenezer Ekuban: No
- Dimitrius Underwood: No
- Patrick Kearney: No
- Courtney Brown: No
- Shaun Ellis: Yes
- John Abraham: No
- Eric Flowers: No
- Andre Carter: No
- Justin Smith: Yes
- Julius Peppers: Yes
- Dwight Freeney: Yes
- Charles Grant: No
- Ty Warren: No
- Michael Haynes: No
- Jerome Macdougle: No
- Tyler Brayton: No
- Kenechi Udeze: No
- Jason Babin: No
- Erasmus James: No
- Mario Williams: No
- Kamerion Wimberley: No
- Mathias Kiwanuka: No
- Gaines Adams: No
- Jamaal Anderson: No
- Jarvis Moss: No
- Chris Long: No
- Derrick Harvey: No
- Lawrence Jackson: No
- Aaron Maybin: No
- Robert Ayers: No
So an 8 sack season from a 1st round rookie has happened six times out of a possible forty-three times… that’s 14% of the time. I’m all for ‘raising the bar’ but let’s not raise it to unrealistic expectations.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
by James Dator on Jun 28, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just think all players are different
If we blanket judged all rookies after 1 or 2 seasons then plenty of guys on the above list who were ‘no’ would be labeled busts who have gone on to have Pro Bowl careers.
Julius Peppers was amazing his rookie year, but that was the exception not the rule. Not every rookie QB is expected to play like Joe Flacco just because he had a successful rookie season.
We always knew that Everette Brown was going to be a project, but it seems we might start to reap the rewards in 2010. I don’t consider it a failure if he can’t unseat Tyler Brayton immediately.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
I don't see it as a failure at this point, either.
Brayton can be the anchor on 1st down, and assuming we can get teams in 3rd and 4+, Brown can come in and make an impact.
I’ve said it before, judging a guy on whether he is a ‘starter’ or not can be a futile exercise. It’s more about contributing, or again, making an impact. Brown showed flashes of excellent pass-rushing skills last season. With that experience, and a little bulk on his frame, it appears that he is ready to break out. At the very least I expect him to provide some pressure off the edge.
And if our DTs struggle, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Brayton slide over to DT—even on early downs, and have Brown come in full-time at end. I don’t really like the Indy comparisons (for the most part their defenses were very mediocre), but Meeks did have guys playing the DT position that weighed less than 270lbs. So Brayton could make that transition in Meeks’ scheme. There are tons of combinations they can experiment with. Hopefully they find the best one, and find in quickly.
My biggest fear right now is that it might take too long for Fox and Meeks to find the right combination, especially with the front 7. Last year it was adjusting to the scheme, this year it would be more about personnel adjusting to each other. Either way, we may again see a few early bumps in the road, before the defense really starts to click. Last year it was already too late. Maybe the more forgiving schedule will prove to be the difference.
Do or do not. There is no try.
by ERL on Jun 28, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I totally agree ERL. The biggest concern is getting to that
level of defensive chemistry, where players just know what their teammates are going to do. Beason talked about it when Davis went down. Fortunately, we’ve got camp and pre-season to get it together, but I agree there may be some early bumps. As long as Moore doesn’t turn it over, we should be able to stay in games. Then, the great theater will be whether Moore can win games late.
I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde
The Tag Team concept applies to DE's, just as it does to RB's.
Fantasy value of DeAngelo Williams, and Jonathan Stewart, is marked down, because they split carries.
But it helps our effectiveness, running the ball with fresher legs, even though it reduces what either one could produce in stats, were he the only feature back.
The same logic may well apply to our specialized DE’s, with Brayton sharing the LDE spot with Johnson and/or Brown, depending on down and distance.
Conclusion: individual stats for those 2 positions are irrelevant, if the results are there.
John Fox was not hired to win fantasy games
He was hired to win real games. If they want to rotate player left and right I am soooo cool with that. I will stock my fantasy team with stars on other teams and root for the Panthers every Sunday (and one Thursday).
If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
I think it's out of his hands
They’ll either continue this young starter trend and roll the dice with Brown, or Fox will do his usual and stick with the vet. I agree with you that the latter is more likely.
However, if they consider Brown an eventual every down DE, then I’d rather them just run with him now. Brayton does very little for me. We know his ceiling and it’s not high enough to make a D-line great. So at this point I’d rather take some chances with the younger guys.
I’d rather risk failing then shoot for mediocrity. Which is what Brayton and Johnson alone are.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jun 28, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Alright, well when they have to waste 1 or 2 more draft picks getting defensive ends to replace a seemingly underperforming Brown, even if he does break out in the future, we’ll see if you still think he isn’t a bust. Being a bust includes more than your stats at the end of your career. If he wastes too many years on the bench, I still consider that a bust ‘cause of all the future draft picks or trades having to cover up this guy’s lack of production. Those picks and trades could’ve gone to building up the team instead of patching up a position that shouldn’t be a problem in the first place.
To clarify, if he stunk for 3 years but ended up having a great career after that, I wouldn’t consider him a bust as a player, just as a first round pick. I consider Dwayne Jarrett a bust as a 2nd round player, for instance. I don’t care if he ends up breaking Jerry Rice’s records starting now. They had to waste 3 draft picks this year on receivers. He’s an epic bust.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Jun 29, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
It's been one year, let's slow down a little bit
Brown wasn’t underperforming, he was right where he should have been for a rookie.
3 sacks in 265 pass rush scenarios. This means that every time he rushed the passer there was a 0.01% chance he’d get a sack. Look at the rest of our DE’s last season:
Julius Peppers: 0.02%
Tyler Brayton: 0.01%
Charles Johnson: 0.02%
He was right in line with the rest of the defensive ends… who are all veterans. By your definition DeAngelo Williams was a ‘bust’ because he didn’t start full time until his 3rd season.
I agree that Dwayne Jarrett looks like a bust because it’s been 3 seasons and he hasn’t proved he can even hold the #3 receiver spot, let alone start. Meanwhile Everette Brown after one season is already in line with other players at his position.
I just think it’s too early to make any claims on Everette Brown, personally, I don’t label rookies as anything until 3 seasons down the road- so we can revisit this in 2012.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
Everyone except the coaches thought Williams should’ve started midway through his 2nd year. He was doing better than Foster.
I’m not saying he underperformed last year. I don’t count last season for Brown. The draft pick used to get him wasn’t used ‘til this year, so I count this year as his rookie year. I don’t care what he did last year. It was recess for him as far as I’m concerned. Now begins the test though. He needs to live up to his draft stock and have at least an above average season for a starting defensive end.
By your numbers he should be starting over Tyler Brayton, since we all know Brayton has maxed out his potential and Brown is supposed to be better this year than last. So, they need to start him. Now, if they don’t start him, but he’s playing so well that they obviously should have (like with Williams), I can’t really hold that against him.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Jun 29, 2010 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Those numbers are only in pass rush scenarios
Everette Brown is not better than Tyler Brayton against the run at this juncture, which is why he’ll be the designated pass rusher on 3rd downs while Brayton holds down 1st and 2nd. When Brown continues to add to his frame and learns about the NFL more he’ll no doubt replace Brayton, but for now he’s still learning.
I can’t go by what Brown ‘should be viewed as’ or ‘because the pick was traded for etc.’ I’m just going off what actually is the case; he’s a 2nd round DE from the 2009 draft, and I’ll move on from there.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
If he plays like a 2nd round defensive end from the 2009 draft, then the Panthers screwed up royally giving away a first round pick for him. That’s all I have to say. I don’t even blame Brown if he flops this year. He didn’t tell Carolina to spend a 1st on him. I’ll put this one all on the front office.
I don’t know how much more weight he can put on and still be a prime pass rusher. If he has indeed put on 10 pounds of muscle, he should be almost the exact same dimensions as Dwight Freeney. This is the kind of guy Meeks wants. If he doesn’t know enough technique to be a starter, that’s a different story. DE isn’t really the most cerebral of positions though, so that’s not real encouraging for the future.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Jun 29, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Let's not get crazy with all the numbers.
I said pushing 8 sacks, not that he had to have 8 sacks. 7 would be fine with me. 5 or 6 would be fine if he was getting consistent pressure, causing incomplete passes. If he caused an interception, I’d consider that better than a sack. If he was taking down the running back behind the line a lot, that would count for something. Even redirecting a back to another defender should be as good as like a fourth of a sack.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Jun 29, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think he starts, unless he is better against the run.
Think about it, we’re not going to make our already potentially weak run D weaker by putting in Brown before he’s ready. But he will get a much larger slice of the playing time this year, and I predict around eight sacks. I don’t think we’ll get a double digit sack person this year, but we will surpass last years total.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jun 28, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Ron Meeks doesn't care about stuffing runs at the defensive line.
All his starting linemen in Indy were undersized. His two starting defensive ends were virtual mirrors of Everette Brown. His starting defensive tackles were 300 pounds or under. All he cares about is speed and pressure on the QB.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Jun 28, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Once again... It sure does seem that way
I don’t think Fox would be too comfortable saying he doesn’t care about stuffing runs at the line. His whole philosophy starts there. But he is definitely letting Meeks change personnel to appear less effective initially on the line, but quicker to swarm to the ball.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jun 28, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Ron Meeks isn't the head coach.
This defense will have Fox’s stamp of approval on it.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jun 29, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Ron Meeks has already changed a lot on the defense.
It is becoming a mirror of Indy’s. I don’t think you hire a professional coordinator, and then tell him what you want him to do. I think he gets paid enough to take care of the defensive coordinating. All I know is he is getting a lot of freedom to change a lot of things from what I’ve seen. Fox has never been the kind of guy to like undersized defensive lines, yet here we are.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Jun 29, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
As far as I know, we don't have a DT under 300 pounds.
Which is what Meeks likes. So while we may be similar to Indy’s past defenses, there are things we run that are still similar to what we did with Fox.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jun 30, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure they do. Several.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Jul 1, 2010 4:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Landri for sure.
And maybe Hayden, I think he put weight back on. But Leonard is 325, well above your stereotype, and Tyler is 303. Irvin is 300 or so, and Ed Johnson is listed at 300 or so, but I think he’s far heavier than that.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 1, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Fox could be granting Meeks freedom to do as will
And who knows what involvement JR could have in this. I know he’s not known for interferring, but Fox is on a short leash, and clearly not playing his initial style of defense.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jun 29, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I partially agree... because 20% sounds way too low
Maybe if Pep was still here that would sound better. But with all these D-line positions up in the air, I don’t see how a guy that most think is our future, top DE doesn’t have a serious chance of starting.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jun 28, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
If Hardy essentially takes Peppers roster spot....
(I’m not saying he replaces his production) then Hilee could very well stick again. The Panthers carried 5 DE’s last season and I think the Panthers will try Norwood at LB first.
I’m cautiously optimistic about Hardy though. Still can’t believe he slid to the 6th round. He could end up like Jarrett though, seemingly all the physical gifts but lacks work ethic and/or mental capacity or will to improve. The early signs are though the work ethic is there.
I too have heard reports that Norwood will start at LB
And it seems we are becoming shorter on talent-depth there.
But I really hope Brown and maybe even Hardy surprise us this year though… Because I don’t think we can expect much more out of Brayton and Taylor. I’m not sure Johnsons ceiling is much higher either. I have my fingers crossed for Brown and Hardy to turn out to be studs.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jun 28, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
At some point, yes, Norwood will 'replace' Anderson at SLB
And when we go nickel, he’ll stay on the field but put his hand down, and we will shuffle accordingly on the d-line….at least that’s what I’m guessing the plan is.
Do or do not. There is no try.
I think Fox has alluded to that too
Or at least that we’ll be rushing the passer a bit more dynamically in 2010
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jun 28, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Norwood should be the quarterback, and also the head coach.
…. and also president.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Jun 28, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
can he throw himself the ball too?
"All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain
by ThePanthers! on Jun 28, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
No but he can sack himself
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jun 28, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
ooh that makes more sense.
"All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain
by ThePanthers! on Jun 28, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks! You're better at my words than I am
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jun 29, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Doh! Miss posted again!
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jun 29, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure why I wrote "START" at LB
I meant that he’ll play LB over DE initially.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jun 28, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Start his career at linebacker, and not defensive end. I think people knew what you meant.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Jun 29, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks! You're better at my words than I am
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jun 29, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Are we as strong or stronger No ~ However we are quicker and more hungry !
Well anybody would kill to have to loss a J. Peppers type talent but we did and we where much better with him than without their is no question but with that being said I am glad to see him gone. Peppers took plays off and has a questionable motor at this point in his career.
Current status of our DE’s are good but not great. E. Brown needs to become a full time starter at somepoint this season for this line to be effective. Brayton is a great #2 or #3 doesn’t matter to him as long as he is on the field. C. Johnson has to start this year b/c he is in a contract year similar to D. Conner and we need to see what we have with him on our team.
Opening Day starters : Brayton / Johnson
Mid – Season starters: Brown / Johnson
By midseason Brown needs to replace Brayton on this line as a starter you don’t draft a guy as high as Brown to be a spot starter and a pass rushing specialist. If that is the case move him to LB and try him in T. Davis spot you might be surprised about the results .
Really excited to see Greg Hardy and see what he brings to the table this year in a reserve role and it is time to say goodbye to H. Taylor no reason to keep six guys on the depth chart/roster this year .
Norwood is a LB ~ the idea of him playing DE makes me truly laugh and he will not see the field alot in 2010 unless injuries arise or on special teams which should be great in Carolina this season.
So in closing this group is not as good as last year’s core of DE’s but it has way more speed, upside, and a much higher ceiliing. Panthers Defensive Line needs to stay hungry to compete this year and this season is a boom or bust type for Fox and company.
Either defensively the defense is great and tops in the NFL and Fox and his staff are resigned regardless of the lockout looming or the team defense and offense flops and the fans will be chatting (We Want B. Cowher) in Charlotte and he may be brought in right after the lockout is over.
Either way it should make for one hell of a season !
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Jun 28, 2010 8:18 PM EDT reply actions
I really dont think Brown needs to be a starter
to make the line successful. As long as he gets enough chances to make an impact, hopefully 7 to 10 sacks, we should be fine. He might not be able to start right now, it all depends on his run defense.
I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised at what Charles Johnson will be able to do. I think he can get 6 to 10 sacks as well, and he will start to play the run a lot better. And of course Brayton is the reliable vet, and he will give us solid play.
The line should be fine with these two guys starting at Defensive end.
"All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain
by ThePanthers! on Jun 28, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
what is funny about Norwood playing DE?
Just because LB was his last position? You do know that DE was his first right? And that he is the same size as Mathis? And Meeks is the reason for Mathis/Freeney being effective?
So what is funny about Brown/Norwood? Seems like a young Freeney/Mathis to me. And that has gone pretty well in Indy.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
~Winston Churchill
Double Trouble. #89. A QB who can protect the ball. Gary "the broad side of a " Barnidge. One of the very best O-lines in the league. A few young talented WRs with a lot of upside. The best FB to come out in the Draft in a long long time.
A top 5 secondary. An awesome LB corp. A 325 lb. wall on wheels in Leonard. A 306 lb. Tank that is as strong as his name suggests. Eric Norwood and Everette Brown coming off the edges too fast. Ol reliable Brayton and Johnson.
A totally new Special Teams unit. With the Jets best gunner in Wallace Wright, the Cardinals ST captain Aaron Francisco, Marcus Hudson, Fast as you want to be Brian Witherspoon.
This is one hell of a football team! This Football team is very young and set up to have success for years to come. This is the foundation of a Dynasty!!!!
by STEVEN 785 on Jun 29, 2010 1:22 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yahoo's Jason Cole
has the panthers ranked dead freakin last in D-line rankings.
wow. off the top of my head I’d rank carolina ahead of Denver, Seattle, and Buffalo easy just on potential.
I figured they’d be low, with new unknowns, but wow.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;ylt=AgiIETaPZaGJ2iYHPhRDTJDubYF?slug=jc-dlinerankings062810
The guy omitted Charles Johnsom entirely, and called Everette Brown a JAG
Boy, is he misinformed.
I can only hope this article, and its ranking of dead last in the league, is used as bulletin board material to inspire our DL.
I love it, love it, love it
Reminds me more and more of 2003 every day
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
This D-line reminds you of 2003? How?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jun 29, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
This media build up reminds me of 2003
Panther suck, destined for the top 10 next season.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
by James Dator on Jun 29, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I know you are referring to the off season prior to 03'
But we had serious talent on that line
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jun 29, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't agree with being dead last, but I agree with most of his explanation
Brayton is well labeled as “try hard guy”, Nick Hayden, Louis Leonard are accurately “Just a Guy”, and Hardy has a lot of potential. I’d give Brown more credit but he’s not done much to prove to those other than the Panther hopeful that he’s more than a “JAG.”
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jun 29, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder what the excuse was for conveniently ignoring Charles Johnson?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
by James Dator on Jun 29, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably labeled him a JAG
He has been a backup for 3 years.
stuff 'bout stuff.
by silver82blade on Jun 29, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Then I label Jason Cole a JAG-off
10 sacks the last two seasons in limited time says that he’s more than ‘just a guy’. That’s more sacks than Tyler Brayton had in a full time role in the same period, and more than Chris Long (he had 9) who he is overly apologetic for on the Rams who rank 25th.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
Chris Long is more well known
I don’t expect many people outside of Panther nation to know too much about him at this point.
Again 32nd is definitely harsh. But is 25th really that much better? We haven’t made any moves to make guys like this respect us… I don’t think it should be that big a shock.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jun 30, 2010 10:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Isn't it a sportwriters job to know that players who aren't neccesarily known by the general populace?
I just think if you’re going to talk about a team, any team, take two seconds to look at the roster and at least understand what they’re working with.
It’s not about getting national writers to ‘respect us’ it’s about asking them to do their job. Blathering on about how Chris Long should do much better now, and poor Chris Long for being stuck on a bad team isn’t an excuse. I don’t understand how the same writer can chide Matt Moore and talk about what will happen if he falters (see his QB rankings) then give another (Long) the benefit of the doubt. It isn’t consistent of tone.
No, 25th isn’t glowingly better than 32nd, but if you’re going to rank teams I would love the justification on why anyone can say the Rams will have a better defensive line than the Panthers?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
And you would be equally upset if he had us 15th and forgot about Johnson?
I’m just saying 32 – 53 man rosters is 1696 players. I’m not shocked he forgot one. However if Pat Y did this I’d be right there with you.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
If you can't take the heat, get out of the proverbial kitchen.
32 rosters carrying what, 5 DE’s each? That’s 160 players… I don’t think that’s too much to ask from someone who writes a national column. I bet it’s simpler to look up those 160 players than look up the sacks totals for every 1st round DE since 1995 like I did above, and that took me about 45 minutes.
Yes, he forgot just one… but he’s a projected starter. To me that’s unforgivable… if Cole forgot, say, Hillee Taylor it would be more understandable.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
As a Pittsburgher, I approve of your use of jagoff.
by SlayerGhaleon on Jun 30, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
And maybe he didn't feel the need to mention every JAG
I think Johnson’s potential is slightly above JAG status, but I don’t think he deserves honorable mention due to a stellar career.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Jun 30, 2010 10:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I may get creamed for writing this, but...
I think our DE position will be very strong. I really liked what I saw from Johnson and Brown last year in limited time. Johnson is fast and strong as an ox, and Brown has the quickness and finesse moves. Brayton made some very good stops last year, and I think Hardy’s going to contribute. Who am I leaving out?
I also think that while our DTs may be soft against the run, they’ll be able to apply pressure up the middle better than Lewis and Thomas did. I’m an optimistic homer, I know, but I just think we’re better than the pundits think we are. You have to remember, these are young guys. What you’ve seen before is a glimpse of what they will potentially become, and personally, I saw enough to feel pretty good.
The LBs and secondary will have to help in run support, but opposing QBs will be running for their lives. Just my opinion today. I might feel differently tomorrow.
I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde
However, I wouldn't mind a little better depth at DT.
I can resist everything except temptation. - Oscar Wilde
(who am I leaving out?).....Norwood
He may be considered a LB first, but he will be in the DE rotation for pass-rushing downs. The SLB, in this defense, will sometimes not come out for the nickel package, but instead he’ll slide down to end, and a DT that may not be a pass-rushing threat will waddle off the field as a third corner comes on. Nail Diggs would do this last year, especially if we had only 3 or 4 DE’s in uniform for gameday.
Do or do not. There is no try.
by ERL on Jul 2, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Norwood's a DPR: Designated Pass Rusher
Say’s so on the roster. I don’t think he’ll be in on any plays at linebacker unless he improves dramatically in coverage.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 2, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
He is being groomed to take over the SLB position. And again, in this defense, being the SLB means you’ll have some responsibility to play RDE in certain pass-rush situations.
Do or do not. There is no try.
by ERL on Jul 2, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Make that full time duty at linebacker, sorry.
I don’t think Meeks will hurt the team by letting Norwood try and cover a TE. He’ll blitz with his hand up and in the ground, do some run support, and special teams. Unless he’s a lot better than I think he is.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on Jul 4, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
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