Notes from day two of mini camp
Not a lot of information out of Panthers camp today with only Darin Gantt Tweets available to nourish a hungry fanbase. Despite the lack of information there are some promising signs from Gantt's words as he talks about the look of the four QBs, Dwayne Jarrett and the Panthers' defensive rookies.
More after the jump
We'll start with Gantt's last Tweet from the first day of mini camp relating to his opinion of Jimmy Clausen:
First impression of Clausen: Kid throws a nice ball. Has reached out to teammates, made himself available. Now he just has to beat Moore.
Nothing earth-shattering in Gantt's words, and essentially tells us what we already know. This should give us a baseline for his opinion on the young QB as we can measure it against future comments. Don't be surprised in Gantt gives a somewhat Clausen biased appraisal of the QB position, as (in my opinion) he is clearly not sold on Matt Moore judging from past posts. But nice to see he's reaching out to teammates, it goes further to dispelling some of the pre-draft myths about Clausen.
Gantt's first tweet of day two brought the shocking overhaul of the Panthers' defense into light:
Panthers realization of the day: With T.Davis taking Sat. off, only three starters on D who held those jobs in '09: Beason, Gamble, Godfrey.
It's hard to believe these are the only players left of defense from the 2009 starters. Lots of players getting their opportunities. Also needs to be noted that Gantt has suspended any conversation of Richard Marshall, hopefully he doesn't know something we don't.
As the day continued Gantt turned his attention back to the quarterbacks and WRs, particularily Dwayne Jarrett when he said:
Several nice Dwayne Jarrett catches in the afternoon practice. I'll have to see it translate in the regular season to believe it, but still.
I'm in the same boat as Darin on this one. Once bitten, twice shy, third time ??. This marks the third preseason where we've heard encouraging reports regarding Dwayne Jarrett only to be let down in August during the preseason games. I truly hope he's turned a corner, but I'm too wary to bank of it.
We all know the QB position is deeper than it's been in a long time, even though the corps as a whole is incredibly young. Gantt seems impressed with the group too:
The Panthers may have never had four QBs in camp who can throw like these four can. There's generally been a rag-arm or two in there.
Lets hope the group keeps it up. I see Hunter Cantwell as being the odd man out at the moment. While I believe the Panthers like him very much don't be surprised if we lose him to a team much like the Cowboys lost Matt Moore when they cut him in hopes of putting him on the practice squad.
Finally some news about the Panthers' defensive rookies Eric Norwood and Greg Hardy:
Greg Hardy and Eric Norwood each showed flashes of pass-rush in the afternoon session. Going to be interesting to see them in pads.
If there's one thing the Panthers need on defense, it's more pass rushers. Hopefully the two rookies will be hungry enough to translate their early play into on field performance. Both have the potential to be two of the biggest defensive steals of the draft, let's hope they can prove something.
Like I said, nothing earth shattering but at this point do we need earth shattering news? It's been eventful enough as a Panthers' fan this offseason, now it's all about the guys stepping up and playing.
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I know it doesn't mean much now..
But here is a really awesome write up of yesterday morning. Mr Scot had some really interesting observations and goes into more depth than anyone else. If nothing else it’s an entertaining read. What got me really excited is all the good things i’m hearing about Armanti.
by EyeSack on May 1, 2010 8:12 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
that was a great link
Mr Scot is so lucky to be there…
That is one epic article.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on May 5, 2010 4:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I love it
Damn I can’t wait!
Richardson you better not screw this up for me!
by STEVEN 785 on May 1, 2010 8:14 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
You and me both
This is the first time since he’s been drafted where a true fire has been lit under him.
With LaFell, Moore, Gettis, Wright and Martin all on the roster if he fails to show signs of improvement then he’ll be out of a job.
Don’t sleep on Wallace Wright at WR. He’s being left out of the equation a lot, but Jets fans will tell you that he was starting to show signs of being a factor in their passing offense.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
yeah
i think having people push him from behind, a new QB under center will both help him do better. I still think he can be great, but another year of mediocrity and I think he will officially deserve the bust label.
by SouthernPanther on May 1, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
They said that for two or three seasons about Wright...
Unfortunately, every Taye Biddle doesn’t succeed. We do know, however, that he’ll make his keep on ST units.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
The new receiver we signed was on the cover of NCAA 2010..
I googled Trent Guy to find out more about him and the Pic came up. I guess he spent last year recovering from being shot in the back after some disagreement about his girlfriend..
No, he wasn't
That was something someone made in photoshop. The cover athletes were Sanchez, Crabtree, Orakpo, and Brian Johnson (Utah QB).
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on May 1, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Minicamp Report
http://www.panthers.com/media-vault/videos/Minicamp-Report/e9fd9698-3367-4277-bc29-67610ca13b2f#?id=9cc1d6e1-2dd6-4294-a20c-ed130e04a4f4
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
Does anyone else think it is possible that marshall gets traded.
i mean we have alot of depth now and could get another decent player for him. im not saying get rid of him simply do yall think hes on the block?
no
i don’t think so…i’m pretty sure he’ll eventually sign his deal and suck it up and play…obviously he wasn’t worth anything more or else someone else woulda signed him to an offer sheet
by SouthernPanther on May 1, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody signed anyone notable to an offer sheet this year, so that doesn't really matter
by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on May 1, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
And/or anyone, period, outside of Mike Bell.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, we'd get very little fo Richard Marshall in a trade.
No teams entertained the idea of signing him to a 2nd round tender, so that is the baseline for his value, something less than a 2nd rounder.
Now, you compound this with contractual issues which bumps his value down at least another round. Now we’re looking at a 4th rounder.
Then you couple that with the Santonio Holmes trade which set he value for veterans incredibly low. It’s a bad recipe given Richard Marshall has no time left on his contact. I think he’ll suck it up, plat and be gone in the off season.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
IDK
I mean there have been plenty of players who have done the same thing…I think this is getting a little blown out of proportion…this is no worse than a rookie holding out IMO. I like Richard Marshall…If anything it will motivate him to play harder this season to prove he’s worth a bigger contract.
by SouthernPanther on May 1, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
The quotes of heard on the matter
From Fox and from Captain Munnerlyn, seem to indicate its not a big deal. They both said they expect him back soon.
Even if he makes the Pro Bowl, I don't know if we'll keep him
I think the organization put a lot of dollars into Chris Gamble (better or for worse) as a no.1 corner (6 years, $53.5 million). Depending on how much money Rosenhaus and Marshall are looking for I don’t know if they’ll be much to allocate.
Next offseason we’ll need to give contact extensions to:
- DeAngelo Williams
- Ryan Kalil
- Thomas Davis
If the holdout is based on wanting a big contact extension I don’t know if that’s going to happen.
Given that
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Williams
Didnt Williams just get re-signed earlier in the off-season?
No, he hasn't been.
Rotoworld still lists him as:
2010: $2.1 million
2011: Free Agent
I don’t recall hearing anything about an extension, and they’re normally up to date
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Both the team and him were hoping to do one this season though
it might get done
by SouthernPanther on May 2, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
No doubt
I have no reason to believe an extension for DWill wont be done soon
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
I thought they couldn't offer him an extension
due to the collective agreement. He would only get a 30% raise in his contract and would have to get a lot of guaranteed bonuses front loaded into the deal to make it worth his while. DWill will get his new contract once the new agreement has been signed by the union and the owners.
Luckily he and Stewart are like brothers, and will probably take a little less than open market value to stay together if we have put together a contender.
If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
You almost have it, but it's the other way around
The 30% raise only applies to his salary in 2010. It’s designed so teams can’t restructure and front load their entire roster having little or no money count against the cap.
The Panthers could sign D-Will to an extension, provided he doesn’t make more than $3.12 million in 2010 (a 30% raise from his 2009 salary). They could sign him to an extension and backload it, or structure it normally past 2010.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Thanks James for the clarification.
If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
No, they cannot.
The 30% rule applies to year-to-year growth in base salary throughout the length of the contract.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true
It’s not limited to 2010 only
Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.
Gosh...
Sucks to be so “foolish.”
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh-oh..
Thomas Davis will be 28 (or pushin’ it) when it’s time to resign.. The F.O. might be planning on having none of the old geezer! Maybe they’re planning on a Williams/Beason/Norwood line up of the future.
50% joke/50% fear.
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
They're probably more wary of his knee injury.
He steps to the left, he steps to the riiiiiiight. That Amos Roberts, he'll make you look shite!
The one he's already recovered enough in five months from to fully participate in practices?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Who is this guy? He's right again
Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.
You've just met Michael Procton.
Not sure if he was around when you first started posting, I’m guessing not, otherwise you wouldn’t still be here.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on May 4, 2010 3:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure its about really wanting a whole lot of money
but just wanting a guarunteed contract with some years on it so he knows he’s got a paycheck.
by SouthernPanther on May 2, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually...
Most RFAs (even top ones like Barrett Ruud) have signed their tenders and sohwn up.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, not necessarily.
Maybe we could get a second back since the team wouldn’t also have to commit to a long-term deal.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Holmes trade was completely different.
He was a problem child who was run out of town. Marshall has been behaved off the field.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
"We have a lot of depth???"
Seriously? You want to run a bunch of seventh-rounders and UFAs out there for our #2-5 CB positions? Ugh.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Worked last year
Captain Munnerlyn, seventh round. C.J. Wilson, seventh round. Dante Wesley was a fifth rounder, but still.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on May 4, 2010 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions
How many of those guys started again?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Merely pointing out draft status does not determine future success.
All the guys mentioned played significant roles last season.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on May 5, 2010 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions
That link up there from EyeSack...
Sure has me excited for Edwards..
“As to Edwards, his dreads are so long that you can only make out "Ed" on the back of his jersey. Running routes, he’s fast, and seems to have taken up Steve Smith’s habit of always going full speed no matter what. Saw a few passes thrown his way, and watched him catching punts from Baker. For the record, I didn’t see a football that came his direction hit the ground. If he dropped anything, I missed it.”
Why does this man insist on getting me overly excited when football is still so, so far away?
Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A
agreed
especially that he gives effort like steve…omg i’m so freaking excited for this year now
by SouthernPanther on May 2, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
THIS!!!
Its killing me.
I read somewhere (can’t remember) that Smitty was trying to help Edwards out, before camp or something like that. That’s good news for me.
Richardson you better not screw this up for me!
by STEVEN 785 on May 2, 2010 11:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Because he's got TBS!
No, not the Superstation, Taye Biddle Syndrome!
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone else see Carolina huddle Sat. night?
They went a bit into the QB controversy with Matt and he responded great. No one could say that he sounded anything but excited to get to work. Exactly what you would expect from a veteran QB.
He talked a little bit about how he’s now the leader in the QB room. He also talked a bit about how they addressed the WR position in the draft. Also Matt spoke about how he has done some research into the new WRs and said that they had drafted some real play makers.
A great interview by Matt all around.
Sadly I missed it
But I’m glad to hear that whatever tone was present to my ears (please let’s not go back there) was absent and yesterday was the exception rather than the rule.
I like that he’s been researching the new WRs, it shows the development of the leadership characteristics he needed to be a complete player.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
take a look...
http://www.panthers.com/media-vault/videos/Panthers-Huddle/4d2f5bc4-b3bd-4ccb-8ccb-41f3927114b5
Warning: There is to be no extensive arguing about the demeanor or attitude of Matt Moore or Jimmy Clausen or any other QB for that matter with regards to this interview. All responsible in such an act will face a fine of up to $250,000 and/or 5 years in prison.
by SouthernPanther on May 2, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
"The challenge is not against each other, but against yourself."
Good attitude. From what we’ve seen in recent interviews with both Clausen and Moore, it sounds to me as if there’s a good team-first chemistry developing.
Moore talks about lending his experience to the “younger guys,” as he got the last 3 years from his seniors, and then taking it to the field. Nobody sounds cocky, everybody sounds relaxed and eager to play.
Thanks for posting it!
I like what I’m hearing… and by that I infer no judgement on is tone therein.
Who was he throwing passes to? I didn’t get a good enough look at the WR.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
i think that was LaFell...
not 100% sure though
by SouthernPanther on May 2, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
I saw J stewy about to chow down some good old southern BBQ ribs..
by GeorgiaBudusky on May 2, 2010 7:11 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL...
Moore and his half a season worth of playing time is not a “veteran.” He’s an unproven QB hoping he can finally win a position battle in camp for the first time in his career.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
They're all super-athletic.
Probably the types who are going to make plays in shorts.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
who all can i follow on twitter to get panthers updates that i want???
Please and thank you….fyi I don’t do twitter I don’t know anything about it.
Richardson you better not screw this up for me!
by STEVEN 785 on May 2, 2010 11:04 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
@daringantt is the best source there is.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks mp
Anyone else?
Thomas Davis, Jon Beason, Eric Norwood, Dan Conner, James Anderson, and Jamar Williams are our LB corp!!!!
Tank (306) and Leonard (325) will stop the run and collapse the pocket! I promise!
Our front 7 will be BEAST!
by STEVEN 785 on May 3, 2010 9:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You mean that guy who makes you look like an idiot?
Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.
OK, i'm done
Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.
http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/carolina-panthers/35822-minicamp-morning-session.html
this was psoted above just want to make sure no one missed it.. great breakdown of camp
by SouthernPanther on May 2, 2010 12:00 PM EDT reply actions
Hey guys – Just FYI… You guys have the 4th youngest starting OL in the NFL…
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2010/5/2/1454582/age-and-the-ol-why-the-2010
Works for me! Thanks for the comment
We have two probowlers in Jordan Gross and Kyan Kalil and I wholly believe Otah can be another probowler in time.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Nice analysis and write-up
Looks like it could be a rough year for the ‘Boys o-line. On a more personal note, I had to check out the Saints and Falcs. They’re getting up there, too. Both in top 10 oldest lines. Whether this all translates to wins/losses remains to be seen. Injuries can hit young and old alike, so depth is always important. But I do get the point about the older guys wearing down as the season goes on. I know I do, and I’m just watching on TV.
Bottom line: Panthers having a young and talented o-line with depth is just another strength that keeps me optimistic about our offense this season.
Experience playing together, and the communication that brings, is key to success in the OL
With the exception of RG, we’ve got that, and youth, too. Good combination for years of success.
+1 bigd...
Totally agree that it’s the familiarity born of playing together that makes an elite o-line, and having a pro-bowler at center and LT is pretty good, too.
Then again...
Our line in ’08 returned no starters whatsoever, and it worked out pretty well.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
+1 bigd...
Totally agree that it’s the familiarity born of playing together that makes an elite o-line, and having a pro-bowler at center and LT is pretty good, too.
ROFL
daringantt
.@MichaelProcton Having a budget and trying to win not mutually exclusive. Would Fox prefer vets? Obviously.
Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.
Personally, I prefer this one from April 20th
Ridiculous assertion. RT @MichaelProcton And why would you, when you’re not actually trying to win? (Hurney, re:not being locked on needs.)
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Fox doesn't seem to find it so ridiculous.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Based on???
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
The fact that he admitted we're making trades based on financial consideration rather than making the team better.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
He did no such thing
If you can show me where he said precisely that, then I’ll admit I was wrong.
If this is another assertion thrown out there solely for shock value with no basis, then we can leave it here without reply needed.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
How about saying budget as his only reason for trading Harris?
Or cutting the entire starting defense except 4 players? These payroll moves are not blatantly obvious.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/03/john-fox-has-the-panthers-budget-on-his-mind/
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
THANK YOU!
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Fox never said budget was the ONLY reason
Let’s not forget, this is the same guy who said money wasn’t the reason Delhomme was cut. I think Fox will pretty much say anything to lessen the blow on guys he has respect for, and I think he has respect for Harris.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Futhermore:
If money was the sole reason and motivating factor for trading Harris then why not trade or cut him during the over 30 purge?
If the organization were cutting players with reckless abandon and without care for what it would do to the team then why wait? Because it proves the opposite.
In keeping Harris through the draft that tells me that the organization were looking to move him, but not at the expense of their ability to complete. Thus, when the draft rolls around and the Panthers get a guy they like in Jordan Pugh, a guy they think can be a backup safety then they had that (forgive the pun) safety net to address trading Harris without sacrificing their ability to compete.
There is no other compelling reason to keep Harris past the over 30 purge unless the organization wanted to ensure they had the pieces available to lose him and stay strong. Just as they did with the other players cut.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
OH!
So they decided that they’d have a sixth-round pick who could replace their former starter and NFL stat leader! Got it! I guess that’s why they cut Damione Lewis, because they knew they had Nick Hayden to replace him!
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions
So, must have missed the memo where I said Jordan Pugh was going o start... I swore I said this:
Thus, when the draft rolls around and the Panthers get a guy they like in Jordan Pugh, a guy they think can be a backup safety then they had that (forgive the pun) safety net to address trading Harris without sacrificing their ability to compete.
BACKUP
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Sounding more like it was a variety of things...
They liked the guys they had sitting behind Harris, Harris isn’t getting any younger, and getting rid of C. Harris’ vet paycheck was another factor in the decision.
It was the top reason that came to mind when he was asked
Seriously James, if any other team just cut almost all of their over 30 defensive starters… you’d never claim it had nothing to do with salary dumps. Objectivity please!
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
One factor does not equal sole reason
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Unless that one factor is...
Them cutting all expensive players in favor of cheap ones… That’s a pretty clear sign that budget is involved, to anybody whose not emotionally attached to the team.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
Well, thank God you're not.
Wouldn’t want you to get “burnt” again.
Gamble is expensive, why hasn't he been cut?
Gross is nearly 30, and he sure is expensive. Smith is 30. Harris was only costing us some 900k I believe, the budget may have had something to do with it, but it certainly wasn’t the only reason.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on May 5, 2010 4:26 AM EDT up reply actions
My take on it is...
The o-line, of which Gross is a key part), is very good AND they are young enough that even through a potential lockout, they could come back a quickly shake off any rust.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
We don't know what he was asked...
At least I haven’t seen the question. If he was asked something like, “Was CH let go because of money?” then his response sounds a lot different than if the question was, “Why did you let CH go?”.
OK, here's your link:
On why the decision was made to trade safety Chris Harris: “We’ve got a budget…”
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions
AND THAT HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT....
Parse, parse, parse.
Fox didn’t say:
“The sole reason we traded Chris Harris was due to a budget”
“We wouldn’t have traded Harris if we didn’t have a budget”
“I wanted to keep Harris, but it’s this darn budget”
What he did say was: “We have a budget and that had something to do with it”
In the case of Fox’s statement ‘something’ was used as an adverb meaning ‘to some extent, or somewhat’ this also indicates that there was ‘something’ else that was a factor too, and if that wasn’t the case he wouldn’t have used the term ‘something’.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
"...something to do with it"
Again I’ll state the qualifier ‘something’ can’t be overlooked. It is typical Fox-speak, not unusual as some are saying. It covers whatever would have been somebody else’s more complete answer, the rest of which we can only guess at.
My own guess: that he didn’t want to be unprofessional, and state for the record that they thought Harris slacked off in turnovers produced, and that Godfrey showed them he was coming on (4 FF’s) in the same area.
Had Fox said, “…everything to do with it” we wouldn’t be spending all this time on it.
It’s done…it is what it is.
I've said all along that it's a combination of issues
- Money played a role
- Performance played a role
- Faith in Martin and Godfrey played a role
It’s all a rich tapestry
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
You are entitled to your guesses
It’s just not a good argument against someone who is taking Fox at his word, in a year when they are clearly making budget cuts.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
Well he also didn't mention horses flying out his !#$
But that doesn’t mean we should assume it. You are trying to argue that budget isn’t a factor, with no proof.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
Where did I say budget wasn't a factor?
I keep reading that I said it was one factor, but not the sole factor
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Who said it was the "sole" factor?
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
You did
How about saying budget as his only reason for trading Harris?
Or cutting the entire starting defense except 4 players? These payroll moves are not blatantly obvious.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/03/john-fox-has-the-panthers-budget-on-his-mind/
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Budget WAS the only reason he gave for trading Harris.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed it was...
However, he also clearly said it was ‘something to do with it’ not ‘everything to do with it’
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
I don't see "it's the sole factor" in there
I said it’s the ONLY reason Fox said. Which is 100% true. Which implies it’s probably the most important factor.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
C'mon ST, you have to agree with James on this....
…or at least see what he is saying.
You’re intentionally being provocative right? For fun? Like Procto?
Obviously budget and salary plays a role – and both should in responsible roster decisions. But If budget were the ONLY concern like you are insinuating that is the case, why keep ANY starters? Hell cut Beason, Davis, & Gamble too right?
The Panthers are redoing their Defense in the mold of what Ron Meeks wants.(OT- but IF Fox is gone after this year Ron Meeks will be the head coach)
Harris was a good player and one of my favorites, but that doesn’t mean that trading him and going younger (and cheaper too) wasn’t the best course of action in the long run. Considering the strides made by the D in the late stages of last season, i am willing to trust Meeks’ and Furney to put a competitive D on the field this season.
I'm taking things literally, you guys are the ones making guesses
Let me ask you this. “Budget” was the only reason Fox mentioned. What/whose budget is he referring to? Why would there be a budget so tight we have to cut almost all of our starters in an UNCAPPED year?
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
to get ready for the new cap
its smart. We’re setting ourselves up to be ahead of the game in the future, while teams like Chicago who are dishing out huge contracts are gonna have to cut players in their prime b/c they can’t afford them. It makes perfect sense to me…
by SouthernPanther on May 4, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
The new cap the players said they'd never accept again?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
No one wins in a lockout
Given that the NFL holds most of the cards, I’d say that the players will capitulate, eventually.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on May 5, 2010 4:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Makes sense to me too
So why do I get ripped for implying that some of our moves might not be to make us better in 2010?
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
You're in fact guessing just as much as we are.
We are interpretting the “something” to include other, mitigating factors. You are interpretting the order in which he stated the factors to sort importance.
BTW, we haven’t cut almost all of our starters. Five on defense (Kemo, Lewis, Peppers, Diggs, Harris), and four on offense (Delhomme, Hoover, Muhammad, Vincent). Nine out of twenty two.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on May 5, 2010 4:32 AM EDT up reply actions
The order? He only said one thing.
This is really dumb… You don’t cut all these players, then the coach only mentions “budget”, and then assume budget isn’t the main factor. This is logic 101.
And I was talking about defensive starters, of which we only have 3 on the roster. We will be filling as many as 7-8 starting defensive spots… Normal rationale will conclude that that’s a daunting task!
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
Starting defensive lineup from last year, with starters this year bolded.
Peppers
Kemo
Lewis
Brayton
Davis
Beason
Connor
Gamble
Marshall
Godfrey
Harris
I see only five new starters on defense. Five and a half if you count Godfrey moving to strong safety. There’s not as much turnover on the defense as you would think.
And just because Fox mentioned only one reason doesn’t mean it was the only reason, or even the most important one. His quote was this, “We had a budget, and that had something to do with it.” If he had said, “We had a budget.” then I would agree with you.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on May 6, 2010 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually, have you ever studied Logic?
Because what you are implying goes against everything that a “Logic 101” class would teach..
Just saying…
He also ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about any other reason whatsoever.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on guys
Sigh, ok, I give up again.
Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.
He was asked why we traded Harris:
He didn’t say we were looking to get faster at safety, he didn’t say we needed to add depth at LB and special teams, he didn’t say we’d had our eye on Williams. He said we had a budget. Budgets aren’t about making your team better. Ask any baseball team not named the Yanks, Red Sox, Mets, Phils, or Cubs.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
He also mentioned "budget" in an uncapped year
Meaning this has nothing to do with the league, only JR.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
Exactly.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
We're you actually there? Do you know what context that was in? Did he quote himself as to the ACTUAL question?
Or what he asked before? Or after? Or WHEN?
You’re not an authority because you have a twitter account and talk back and forth to Gantt, especially when he makes you look as foolish as almost all of us do.
Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.
Yes, I do.
He was asked why the trade happened. Feel free to go to Panthers.com, the official site of the Carolina Panthers.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
No Mike, you don't
You don’t know the context of the question. You don’t know the when/where/why/how the question was asked, You don’t know anything about what preceded it. YOU JUST DON’T KNOW
Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.
Sigh...
There must be some exciting “football stuff” to talk about again in the off-season for Procton to show up again, drop a crap load of posts in a thread that’s relatively old, each one quibbling with some small piece of what dozens of other people expressed…sprinkled with salient points, nonetheless…but always delivered in such an evocative manner as to stir up everybody. Good grief, Procton…does this never get old? Or is debating the minutiae of crap like this and ticking people off your favorite past-time? I just don’t understand why you keep taking this same tired approach all the time unless you enjoy it. And if you do enjoy it, I think that’s a pretty sad reflection…“doesn’t play well with others” comes to mind.
But, look, everyone, this argument isn’t so cut-and-dried as anyone makes it out to be. Things in life rarely happen that way. Everybody knows Fox is a VERY tight-lipped coach in front of the media. It’s VERY rare he’ll ever express anything as candid as the comment he made about why Chris Harris was released. The fact that he cited the “budget” DOES show that it played a fairly significant part in why we parted ways with Harris. It wasn’t the ONLY thing. But it WAS something. Frankly, I think it’s a combination of salary dump, youth movement, and new team direction at a time when a lockout is looming, an uncapped season is about to emerge, and we have a lot of uncharted waters to navigate with a young team and a coach who’s in the last year of his contract.
However, at the SAME time, it’s pretty abundantly clear that our defense has undergone some transformation since Ron Meeks got here. Chris Harris just doesn’t have the speed required at the safety position to play Meeks’ scheme. Godfrey and Martin will. They’re younger and less expensive. Time to finish turning the page in this roster purge…not JUST for financial reasons, but also for the long-term success of our team by establishing a new core nucleus of players. We’ve had a lot of these young guys sitting behind several starters who were starting to peak or go into decline. So, it makes perfect sense to make these moves now…i.e., take advantage of the looming financial future of the NFL to also get back to restocking our roster with players that can help us for many more seasons to come.
Meanwhile, Chris Harris still has plenty of tread on him for a team that needs a hard-hitting, turnover-causing, experienced safety. So, the Panthers held onto him for his trade value until the time was right to move him for something that would improve our team in other ways. The draft came and went. Jordan Pugh gives us possible depth (as inexperienced as it may be) behind Martin and Godfrey. Our special teams and LB corps could use a starter and some depth, respectively. So, with the Bears having a luxury LB like Williams and the need for a safety, exchanging Harris (a known commodity to them) for Williams makes perfect sense…both financially AND in terms of player personnel.
So, the deal is done.
The Panthers will roll the dice on some young safeties who will need to do a lot of growing up…and fast. The Bears get an experienced vet to help their defense. We also get a LB who can immediately help improve our special teams (which badly needs it) AND compete for playing time at strongside LB, backup the weakside LB and middle LB positions, and generally give us depth in the event of another injury to Beason or Davis that sidelines them for awhile.
It’s a win-win. Quibbling over how much or how little the financial aspect contributed to the end-result is a moot point. It’s done. Move on. Support the Panthers in their upcoming season. We should have an easier schedule this year (maybe). So that gives these young guys time to grow without unnecessarily throwing them to the lions (not Detroit…I mean that figuratively…throwing them to the Lions might actually be a good thing). Even if we take a small step back in the defensive secondary (which was pretty stout last year), at least that may be offset by the level of competition we’ll face this year while these young guys get up to speed and complete the buy-in into Meeks’ system.
Now, Procton has real strong opinions (surprise!) regarding Carolina’s off-season moves. Much of what he writes comes off as critical of the organization, critical of anyone who disagrees with his opinions and interpretation of the “facts,” and critical of the decision to release of some players he liked in the past (though I don’t anticipate Julius Peppers was one of them) or that he perceives as better than the rookies or less-experienced guys we’re going to use in their place. Who cares? He’s entitled to his opinion, regardless of how he presents it.
James, on the other hand, is a staunch defender of many of the decisions the Panthers have made (but not all!). He’s looking forward at the team’s chances for success this season based on the decisions that were made and how they’re transforming the team. But I also think the rose-colored glasses sometimes fall over his eyes. I don’t think everything is as rosy as Carolina would have everyone believe with regards to Coach Fox in the final year of his contract. I think there’s a good chance he may walk away at the end of this season…particularly if we go into a lockout situation.
The way I see it, Fox has made plenty of money so far, and he can afford to sit back until the NFL owners and players’ association sort things out, before wading back into the available coaching pool. Everyone respects what he brings to the table. Someone will most certainly be willing to upgrade their team by hiring him. So, he’s got no worries. I also think Fox disagrees with some of the decisions the FO has made. He’ll deal with them like the professional that he is right now…but that doesn’t mean he has to like them…or that he can’t express some displeasure or disappointment by being more candid than usual with the media. It’s not like he’s trying to sabotage anything. And it’s not treasonous to the Panthers to examine his words and do some reading between the lines. I recall James doing a bit of reading between the lines in a recent Matt Moore interview, as well…and drawing some conclusions that didn’t sit well with BigDavis. To which, I say…big deal!
Look, we’re all entitled to our opinions. It’s what makes the discourse here fun and entertaining. As long as everyone recognizes that that’s exactly what it is…i.e., someone’s opinion, no greater and no less than anyone else’s…then we’re all fine. But the moment someone gets a puffed up sense that their opinion is the only one that matters…that all others are meaningless, misinformed, or somehow less valid than their own…well, that’s when I don’t enjoy the discourse that follows. Because it becomes a virtual sparring match of words that clog up the thread and detract from the real discussion of the topic at hand. People start spending more time giving tit-for-tat like a bunch of a immature school kids arguing over “what someone said” and “how they said it” and “what they actually meant”…
Who cares? Shut up and get over it. In the meantime, I know I look at those who stir up this kind of crap with a far more critical eye than those who wind up getting drawn into it. And Procton, you’re routinely at the forefront of these “debates” and degenerating arguments. You do it on every discussion board in which you participate. It’s attention-seeking and narcissitic. Either learn how to properly interact with people or expect people to start calling you out for your behavior. You instigate this stuff, stir up frustration against you, and then get pelted with insults for touting your opinions as unassailable facts. If you don’t want that kind of ridicule, learn to get along, and learn to express your opinions in ways that further discussion rather than countering someone else with every post.
To everyone else, my apologies for the side-track. I’m just getting really tired of this same game playing out everytime Procton appears. It sours the whole site to have to wade through his back-and-forth crap with everyone. And it borders on spamming the regular discussion.
But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil
by NSpicer on May 4, 2010 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Thanks, Neil
I, for one, will take what you say to heart, and try to keep the discussions civil. And I know from experience around here that James will, too. Not sure (but hopeful) that MP will, also; I’ve tried your ‘appeal to reason’ approach with him before, to no avail. There’s a pH factor to be dealt with, and I’m not sure we’ve got enough soda to change it.
It's a maturity thing...
…and knowing how to present a point of view without belittling or devaluing others…or just to perpetuate an argument. It’s okay for everyone to be passionate. And I take what you say as exactly that. You’re a generally level-headed guy. You know how and when to make a point about something. You generally prove accepting of how others view things, or know when to let it go if a difference of opinion lingers.
But I always see Procton return to form in any discussion he participates. Same approach. Same feuding carried over from one discussion topic to the next. And the same reaction from everyone when he does it. He never learns. He doesn’t even seem to care to learn. And so, we get these sprawling comment-by-comment tug-of-wars over ridiculous assertions that don’t matter.
Meanwhile, new people show up to participate on the site and run smack dab into Procton’s abrasive, show-you-up mentality and it just isn’t good for the discourse here. I find it annoying at best, and it boils away my interest in participating on discussion sites about the Panthers in almost every circumstance. His ability to stir up crap on the Observer site pretty much drove me away from even trying to hold an intelligent discussion there. I found this place and it’s much more open, lively, intelligent, and supportive. And I’d hate to move on from here because of Procton and others who enflame this kind of arguing for argument’s sake.
And that’s my two-cents,
—Neil
I lobbied for banning him...
…on the basis that his posts, while occasionally offering some new insight (usually involving contracts, or league regulations) were most often snide, demeaning, incendiary, and descriptive of a troll wanting to cause trouble.
This was not accepted by the moderators, and I understand their liberal thinking on the matter. But you see where it gets us, and especially the newer contributors. Some may leave, and we are left with his detritus.
Your prerogative to be anywhere you want to be.
I don’t violate this site’s ToS as so many others do on a regular basis.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
*clap* *clap* *clap*
Way to avoid the road less-traveled, Procton. Always self-serving to the end. You demonstrate yet again you can’t accept responsibility for the way you choose to behave in a public forum. It’s never your fault, and it’s always someone else who’s in the wrong. You always stand on never having violated the rules-as-written. And so you believe you’re taking the high road everytime. And yet you couldn’t be more wrong. The saddest part is that you’re completely oblivious to it.
by NSpicer on May 4, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well said Neil
Honestly I can’t explain why I keep letting him back in…he makes a good point about not violating the rules directly but your counter point to his tactics are spot on as well.
Please flag the comments that are ‘troll-like’ and maybe the cumulative sum will shed better light on it.
Perhaps a better approach...
Would be to just ignore him when he makes a snide remark. (I’m not accusing him of anything, for the record.) But if he is doing it just to draw commentary and bait people into arguments, then why take the bait? Why give him what he (allegedly) wants? Just ignore his (interpreted by some) a-hole comments and only discuss topics with him when he presents himself as a reasonable human being (if in fact he does present himself in any other way).
He does have interesting commentary on the franchise and has the ability to talk about the team like the majority of the people here, and perhaps if people just leave him alone when he tries to start ad nauseum arguments about Jake vs. Moore or starts claiming that the world is against him for being a fake fan, maybe he will stop. (If he is doing anything wrong, that is.)
I truly believe that if he is in fact a troll like some people claim, and is consistently ignored when he tries his troll routine that he is accused of doing, he will go somewhere else. If the accusations of trolldom against him are true he won’t be able to stand not being the center of attention and will find somewhere else to argue with people. This is true of any online forum – trolls can’t stand to be ignored and will go wherever their need for an argument is met. (Again, I’m not saying MP is a troll, I’m just going off the consensus of several people here.)
But continuing to argue with him ad infinitum will solve nothing, and will leave a lot of people more pissed off in the end when the situation could have been avoided by taking the high road and just ignoring him when he (allegedly) makes a sarcastic remark to start a pissing contest and feed his (alleged) inferiority complex.
Honestly, there are way too many other things to be excited about and talk about than to worry over whether or not any member is a troll and to engage in conversations that anyone who has been here longer than 10 minutes knows will only wind up being a back and forth insult-fest.
Sorry for such a long comment, but I had to put my take on the matter out there.
Thanks to the Denver Broncos, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
Neil and BW are spot on point
I know I’ve been guilty on many occasions of feeding the troll (alleged). And MP has gone to different sites at times, but he always comes back here. For the CSR veterans, ignoring him (or his persona) is probably the best course of action, and should any new contributors fall under his bridge, we can pull them out.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on May 5, 2010 4:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely agree guys...
I generally ignore MP, even if he’s making a valid point about something. Unfortunately, he comes and goes a lot and not everyone (particularly new members) understand how he conducts himself online. And so they get sucked into some argument/disagreement with him that just mucks up the discussion. If the moderators and CSR veterans can keep an eye out for that kind of thing, maybe it can be headed off before it detracts from the forum. Generally, I call him (and them) on it when I see it developing. But I don’t…and can’t…crawl through every thread to root it out.
Just my two-cents,
—Neil
always the voice of reason….nice post Neil
by SouthernPanther on May 4, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, we now know the Harris trade was about money
And straight from the horses mouth… the horse that rarely tells…
http://blogs.charlotte.com/panthers/2010/05/fox-closes-minicamp-with-candor.html
Sounds like the Panthers weren’t trying to make the position better, they simply grabbed the best offer they could get.
And Fox clearly isn’t himself. When has he ever spoken so frankly? I think he’s upset about some decisions made recently, and is now freely acting as if it’s his last season.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
Lost alot of respect for Gantt
There was no mention of how the question was posed, and in what context the answer was given.
If the question was posed as “You got a good LB in the deal, and will now be able to get Martin and Godfrey on the field at the same time, was there any other reasons?” And he answered,
“We’ve got a budget,” he replied matter-of-factly. “And that had something to do with it.”
That is a completely different context than if posed as “Why was Chris Harris traded?” and he replied
“We’ve got a budget,” he replied matter-of-factly. “And that had something to do with it.”
Of course, we don’t know the context of the question or answer or what lead in questions were asked. So the whole article is a pile of steaming horseshit.
The bottom line is, we now will have our best two safeties on the field, we got a quality LB in the deal, got rid of a big contract of a player in decline, and are in a better all-around position after the trade than before.
Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.
+1000000
those are great points Sniff
Thomas Davis, Jon Beason, Eric Norwood, Dan Conner, James Anderson, and Jamar Williams are our LB corp!!!!
Tank (306) and Leonard (325) will stop the run and collapse the pocket! I promise!
Our front 7 will be BEAST!
by STEVEN 785 on May 3, 2010 2:18 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I see what you are saying but...
on the panthers.com transcript of the interview the quote is
On why the decision was made to trade safety Chris Harris: We’ve got a budget, and that had something to do with it.
It seems like there was nothing else to the question… at least none reported by the official website…
by ClaytonFire on May 3, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So your plan is to deny all red flags?
So we can unjustly praise the Panthers greatness? Sounds fun, but at least I won’t be heart broken when Fox leaves next year.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 1:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why celebrate Fox's firing if it happens?
It’s not his fault Richardson decided to prioritize saving money over winning.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think he'll be fired
Just speculation of course… But I think he’ll walk after this season. With things not going his way here, why not go to a much higher profile team that actually wants to sign him long term?
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
With no season currently scheduled...
He’ll have a hard time finding work for a while if he doesn’t get extended here.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Technically he won't have work during a lockout anyways
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
But he'll have a salary.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Will he?
The players don’t
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
players under contract will still have a salary if I understand correctly. Just becuase they are locked out doesn't mean they don't get paid
or am I wrong?
by SouthernPanther on May 4, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Somebody needs to look this up
It probably depends on who initiates the strike. 2011 could be really crazy.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
I can't imagine why they would get paid
They’re not doing their jobs (playing), so I can’t imagine why they would get paid for playing football when they’re not playing football due to a lockout.
Thanks to the Denver Broncos, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
They wouldn't get gameday checks
But I imagine other provisions would still allow them to get some measure of pay. I’ve never seen an NFL contract, so I can’t say for certain though.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on May 5, 2010 4:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Be mad at Gantt all you want.
Fox was telling it like it is.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I call BS on the 'Fox is angry at the organization and is lashing out' idea.
I’ve read it in a lot of comments and on a lot of message boards, and it simply doesn’t make any sense.
Let’s not forget, JR gave Fox the ability to entertain and accept offers from other teams as soon as the 2009 season ended. If Fox didn’t want to be in Carolina anymore he wouldn’t be. You think Chan Gailey, Tom Cable, Eric Mangini or Raheem Brock would still have jobs if Fox wanted any of them? I sure don’t.
Furthermore, if we’re to believe Fox knows this is his last season then which prospective owner is he impressing freely talking about the front office’s decisions in such an ‘out of character’ and critical manor?
Fox has always towed the party line, and I think it continues to be that way. If he truly didn’t agree with the organization’s moved then why say ’We’ve got a budget’ wouldn’t he say ‘I don’t know, you’ll have to ask Marty that’?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Furthermore... (sorry for the double post)
Don’t get me wrong, I love the Hitman (especially as a leader) but he had a pretty mediocre 2009 season.
Even if you adjust his numbers and extrapolate his stats to accommodate for his 3 game injury you get:
73 tackles (19th among NFL SS)
7.3 PDef (12th among NFL SS)
3.69 INT (11th among NFL SS)
2.46 FF (6th among NFL SS)
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
while his numbers may not be all that impressive
he is a great leader in the secondary…I wonder if Godfrey or maybe Gamble will step up and become the leader int he secondary
by SouthernPanther on May 3, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
His leadership abilities will be undoubtably missed
While I’d love to see Godfrey or Gamble step up, ultimately I think Beason is a big enough personality and leader to speak for all of them.
It’s worked in Baltimore for years where their only true defensive leader is Ray Lewis.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
+1
Thomas Davis, Jon Beason, Eric Norwood, Dan Conner, James Anderson, and Jamar Williams are our LB corp!!!!
Tank (306) and Leonard (325) will stop the run and collapse the pocket! I promise!
Our front 7 will be BEAST!
by STEVEN 785 on May 3, 2010 2:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
*cough Ed Reed
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on May 3, 2010 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd say Reed is more of a playmaker than a leader...
You rarely hear anything from Reed other than his play on the field…but Ray Ray talks ALL the time.
Thanks to the Denver Broncos, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
Huh?
Since when does talking define leadership? Was Rucker not a leader?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
You're kidding yourself if you don't think Ed Reed is running that secondary.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely.
Remember the difference in the defense and the secondary upon his return? No stat for “getting people in the place they need to be doing what they need to do.”
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Raheem Brock is a defensive end for the Indianapolis Colts
And as the backup, he doesn’t have the job to lose!. Don’t mean to pry, but i think you meant to say someone else.
by jojoisthemann on May 3, 2010 5:42 AM EDT up reply actions
*sigh
Yes, Raheem Morris…. I’ve been doing that too much lately…lol
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
What, you saying Foxy can't play anymore? LOL
Thanks to the Denver Broncos, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
Hell no!
Fox would be taking the starter’s job! Freeney can move over to start on the left side, Mathis out of a job!
by jojoisthemann on May 3, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Another angle might be
a message to the players union that being uncapped goes both ways. No ceiling AND no floor…I’m sure ownership thinks they overpay for those players that barely see the field. I’m convinced JR is out to reduce his payroll significantly with this move to serve as an example for the CBA negotiations.
I absolutely agree
I still maintain though that if Fox was disgruntled he would have said something to the effect of ’you’ll have the ask ownership’ rather than being frank.
I totally see how playing cheap would send a message to the union, especially if the Panthers are successful in 2010.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
And if we flop?
What message will that send?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
It will backfire ad JR has egg on his face, but the team are left with one of the best financial situations in the NFL
More pros than cons
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Those players like the guys we cut?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a lot of explaining away the obvious
Why did they trade Harris? Because of the budget. Either Fox is lying or end of story.
Let’s also not forget Fox skipped the Clausen press conference, and cried when we let Jake go. I know it’s more fun to sing Panther praises (until a Panters cut, then proclaim why they weren’t that good), but clearly Fox is not himself this year.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 2:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I gave you the precise reason Fox wasn't at the Clausen 'press conference'
If you want to ignore that and continue to make it seem like he hated the decision that’s your perogative, but Gantt pretty much spelled out what happened.
Hurney ran down to make a quick announcement (what you call a press conference) to the media pit but was in a hurry to get back to the war room. Gantt postulated the Panthers may be looking to make a trade, which explains why Fox remained in the war room.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
I didn't say he hated the pick
Just that multiple things have been out of character, and there could be a reason.
Are we only allowed to be skeptical or criticize a coach or player once he’s traded away? New Flash: The Panthers do not dominate in every facet of the game. And just as we argue and get frustrated, so do players and coaches.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
Of course we're not, we can be critical of whoever we like
The fact remains though that regarding the specific issue of the Clausen conference there was a reported justification I gave you when you brought it up the first time in another thread. Restating it now as an attempt to characterize Fox as a lone wolf isn’t really fair when you had the justification for it.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
That's not a fact
You connected a string of events to come to that conclusion
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
I connected a string of certainties and facts reported by someone who had an opportunity none of us did, to be in the media pit at BoA on draft day.
If someone who’s there whose career is based on reading and judging the organization then I’ll go with their instinct (i.e. that the Panthers were working the phones) over a blind hunch that Fox was pouting in the war room and disappeared for a ‘vote of no confidence’.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Then why don't you go with their word also?
When they say stuff like Harris was cut for budget reasons?
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
I'll go on Gantt's word, who said the contrary over Twitter
But to be clear, Harris being traded not about $$, more they like the two young guys they have and want them both on the field.
For NFL owners, GMs and coaches subterfuge is part of the job. Just look at all the lies that surround the draft.
I’m remaining steadfast on trusting Gantt’s observations, not relying on people who have a vested interest in what they’re saying.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Ok then, You stick with Gantt, I'll stick with Fox
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
And he doesn't?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, any basis or just wild claim?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
He's a professional.
He wants as many people interested in possible. People don’t care about a team that doesn’t care to win.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Just so I'm clear:
When you suggested to someone earlier to follow Gantt on twitter:
@daringantt is the best source there is.
You think he’s the best source there is, but also biased and will twist his information in a positive light to goad his readers into believing the Panthers’ organization are interested in winning when he knows that isn’t the case?
Something isn’t adding up to me.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
The two are not mutually exclusive.
Since when have you ever seen a beat writer burn his bridges with the organization he covers? That’s a sportswriter who won’t have a job for long.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Then why advocate anyone follow him on Twitter? Why write to him over the same network?
I believe beat writers over conspiracy theorists and Gantt wouldn’t have been ‘burning any bridges’ in this scenario.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Watch out with all this negativity.
You’ll become a fake fan, and people will start throwing personal insults your way.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
That's good mentoring.
Taking him under your veteran wing, very nice.
"Why did they trade Harris?"
“…a budget…had something to do with it.”
Why do you feel the budget had EVERYTHING to do with it?
I wasn’t there; I couldn’t hear if there was something in Fox’s tone (could you?) to indicate he was being sarcastic, or dismissive, or frustrated, or pissed, etc. Just taking his spoken words at face value, why couldn’t he have meant there were other factors than money involved in their decision to trade Harris — like the possibly simple fact that the staff felt he was past his prime, ill-suited to the scheme they planned to use, and that Godfrey had twice as many FF’s as Harris did last year?? I know Harris is the HitMan (did he give himself that nickname?) and was a turnover machine in 2007, but that was then, and this is now.
I’ll reiterate he was ranked #50 overall of 87 players who played Safety in the league last year. I don’t think the trade was bad for the Panthers. Maybe Fox just didn’t want to get into an adverse comment about Harris’ relative worth.
Thank you BD
Was just about to type most of that.
Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.
Because that's the only reason he gave
It’s pretty funny that you are jumping on my back for taking Fox literally at his word, just so you can believe something different than what he said.
I love the team spirit and all… I for one think we’ll have a good offense. But you guys are taking your fandom too far when people cannot say anything remotely critical… even when it’s based on what the head coach said.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Cannot say anything remorely critical??
I’m just being critical of Harris, not Fox or Richardson or Hurney, or whomever you implicate in your indictment.
Harris isn't a Panther
Of course we can be critical of him now.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
I was critical of him when he first appeared on this site.
Told him to make more tackles, and quit pimping his Facebook sites.
Weren’t you here then?
FAKE FAN!
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
And Beason was ranked #30 among LBs by your same site.
You’re suggesting we should ship him out of town/
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Beason didn't have another guy on his team, playing his position, that forced twice as many fumbles as he did, last year.
…as was the case vis a vis Godfrey and Harris.
One player on the upswing, the other on the down.
+1
Thomas Davis, Jon Beason, Eric Norwood, Dan Conner, James Anderson, and Jamar Williams are our LB corp!!!!
Tank (306) and Leonard (325) will stop the run and collapse the pocket! I promise!
Our front 7 will be BEAST!
by STEVEN 785 on May 4, 2010 12:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No.
Being reluctant to give out information which could hurt the Panthers in pressers and being a pushover are two different things.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Suprised
To see Ricky Proehl riding around mini-camp with the big cat.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/04/30/1408031/meet-the-new-panthers-at-minicamp.html?img=13
Didn’t he have a lawsuit against the panthers at one time? Maybe I have him confused with another white WR we had?
That was Patrick Jeffers
Medical malpractice lawsuit against Panthers team Dr.. Said Dr. ruined his career with additional procedures on his knee, or something close to that affect.
Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.
ahh
thanks for that, was wondering why I couldn’t find anything about it on google, and as I thought about it more I figured I had the wrong person but couldn’t remember…
Ricky Proehl loves the organization
He lives in Greensboro and I’ve had the opportunity to meet him on several occasions. Super nice guy, never has a bad word to say and always keeps up with the dealings of the organization.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Nope,
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
intersting comment from Catman
over at carolina huddle
If you haven’t seen any pics so far of Moore and Clausen interacting, there’s a reason for that… they haven’t been. Both have talked to both Cantwell and Pike but I didn’t see them talk to each other once, the competition is on.
sigh
I hate drama…
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
I agree
Jaxon, and I hope that was true… just something to file away for future reference… I hope it doesn’t turn the locker room into a Cali drama room.
Then why the difference from their interactions with the other QBs?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't try to use logic to paint these guys as mere mortals
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
I've had plenty beef with Procto
I’m just trying to get you guys to have a little objectivity, instead of thinking every single off-season move the Panthers make is a home run… Because when we miss the playoffs it sounds ridiculous, and you guys completely flip-flop.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
you really are starting to annoy the crap out of me
I think that is your goal.
do you object with negativity every time someone in your family wants to try or learn something new?
I would hope you would encourage them. And you would let them know you believe in them and that they could do anything.
*for he record this is not an attack. I am just stating my position on the nature of the comments st is coming with constantly. I will copy and paste this for comments I see going this direction.
Thomas Davis, Jon Beason, Eric Norwood, Dan Conner, James Anderson, and Jamar Williams are our LB corp!!!!
Tank (306) and Leonard (325) will stop the run and collapse the pocket! I promise!
Our front 7 will be BEAST!
by STEVEN 785 on May 4, 2010 11:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I have been plenty optomisitc about our offense
You guys just can’t handle that our defense might not be that good this year
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
+1
I said it once and I’ll say it again… in May optimism and pessimism are just as accurate as each other.
Personally, I don’t want to be expecting a horrible season before there’s even a snap- but if other prefer that line of thinking more power to them.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Except you're a fake fan when you're not optimistic and positive about every move that's made.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You need to get over this inferiority complex over one remark one random user said months ago
You keep spouting this ‘fake fan’ charge like it’s something we all accuse you of on a regular basis.
There’s a time where a healthy dose of skepticism becomes rampant cynicism. I firmly believe it’s in this cynicism where people would rather stand on a soapbox and feed into their own role as a cynic than continue to discuss a topic with a healthy dose of skepticism.
So while I personally don’t throw around monikers like ‘fake fan’ I also believe I understand the concept behind it (however poorly articulated it may be). This is the belief that the rampant cynics are so involved with their own agenda that it clouds their ability to discuss an issue without turning it into a topic about them rather than the topic at hand; it’s this same cynicism that causes inaccurate quotes, convenient parsing and a melodramatic tone that serves said agenda.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
It's different because it's more likely
Ok, maybe we shock the world, and show the NFL that you can drop your starters at will, because they’re so easy to replace.
But in the real world, chemistry, experience, proven talent, veteran leadership, etc. all have an important role. More likely, if this defensive team is really good it won’t be for a few years.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
If they arent that good then I can handle it.
But I don’t see any reason that we shouldn’t be good on D. Unless you think losing Peppers is going to hurt us. But I think as a whole our front 7 will achieve Peppers production and their own. I don’t see why we would be worse at DT. I have no reason to believe we will be. I don’t see how our LB corp has taken a step back. I don’t see how our DBs have regressed in the off season. Frankly I don’t see the D as worse. Yeah we lost some slow vets. So what? Its not like we are sending out 11 rookies and that’s all we got.
Thomas Davis, Jon Beason, Eric Norwood, Dan Conner, James Anderson, and Jamar Williams are our LB corp!!!!
Tank (306) and Leonard (325) will stop the run and collapse the pocket! I promise!
Our front 7 will be BEAST!
by STEVEN 785 on May 5, 2010 2:22 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So replacing as many as 8 defensive starters is really quite easy?
Why don’t we do this every year then? A matter of fact, why do teams like New England waste so much on all those veterans. You are right… chemistry, experience, leadership… It’s all overrated.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
I don't think it's necessarily flip-flopping, ST...
It’s more that certain off-season moves inspire fans in different ways. Some people were up on Julius Peppers, some people were down. Some people were up on Jake Delhomme, some people were down. Some people think the youth movement is great, others think we’ve thrown the baby out with the bath water and given up some vital experienced veteran leadership for the cause of cost-cutting.
Bottom line: We’re all Panther fans and want to see the team (and franchise) succeed. Some people get super-invested in certain players. Some question the moves and decision-making of the FO. It’s okay to be passionate about those things. You don’t have to everyone to view things exactly the way you do for all to be right in the world. Loosen up a little. Discuss Panther-related events. Hypothesize. Theorize. Analyze. And avoid arguing over it. You can disagree, of course. Just no need to argue or take offense at every point of view that’s different, you know?
But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil
Right because no way Moore and Clausen don't get a long
They are incapable of normal human emotions
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, southtunnel, why you being so irascible?
Who rubbed you the wrong way?
My bad... Maybe because it's rainy out
Maybe I’m Procto infected
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
It must be that he's "wrong" that he disagrees with you.
Great point.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Did me using your name above summon you?
Ironic because I haven’t seen you on here in a couple months.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
I dropped by for the draft.
School’s been busy.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, you happy-go-lucky school lads.
Tenga cuidado! The job market awaits. Then ‘busy’ will redefine itself.
I don't know
School all day + homework in the evening is a pain in the !@#.
I’d much rather be working.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
agree
college is hard as shit man…i hate exams…I’m on no sleep right now…
by SouthernPanther on May 3, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Particularly when you work twenty hours a week.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Then you shouldn't be watching Sports
It’s all about ups and downs
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
This is not a bad thing
It means Moore is under pressure to be at his best. No room for him to slack off with a gym-rat, top prospect QB on his tail. Moore has to show the team he’s the boss, and will either get the job done, or somebody better than him will… It’s a win, win for Panther fans.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 2:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It makes sense
They know that the other man could potentially beat them out for the starting job…it would make sense that there is going to be a period of time when they are just looking each other up and down. My hope is that having two QBs with starting aspirations does not effect the locker-room.
Do or do not. There is no try.
by ERL on May 3, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
That's why they got rid of Delhomme.
Maybe Moore’s out the door sooner than we think.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Well they have declared him the starter for now, so they must have some hope in him
But on the other hand, if they were completely convinced they probably wouldn’t have drafted 2 QBs. Moore will get the nod, and if he doesn’t show up then they have a very good insurance policy behind him.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
I'm gonna hold off judgment on this...
Until one of them wins the job. I want to see how the loser reacts. Until then, I’m just going to be optimistic and say that they are just so focused on being the starting QB that they don’t have time for chit-chat.
Thanks to the Denver Broncos, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
By "this" I meant the quote that ClaytonFire posted
I meant to hit reply – my bad.
Thanks to the Denver Broncos, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
I'm slightly concerned both ways
It could go either way:
A) Clausen doesn’t want to seek out Moore’s help because he’s trying to beat him in camp. This hurts his maturation
B) Moore doesn’t want to help Clausen because he’s trying to beat him in camp. This hurts Clausen’s maturation.
Either way, a lack of communication isn’t good for the organization. But given this is a second hand report from a fan I’ll reserve judgement until the media says something about it
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
cause its so unlike the media
to blow something out of proportion. I’m not sure I’d trust the media at this point either. They more than anyone would want to make up a story about drama among our quarterbacks.
by SouthernPanther on May 3, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
This wasn't from the media though
It was directly from a fan and his opinion. I’ve Tweeted Gantt to see if he knows anything, and will update if I get a response.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
I know, I'm responding to your "i'll reserve judgement until the media says something about it"
not trying to be nasty or anything, just saying
by SouthernPanther on May 3, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair point
Gantt is in the position he’s in though because he was allowed to get that close to the organization because he didn’t dramatize every move like some Charlotte Observer reporters used to. That’s why he became the ‘go to guy’ out of Rock Hill rather than the biggest newspaper in Charlotte.
I know he’s working for the Observer now too, but I don’t think he’ll jepordize his relationship with the team to make a story.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
The Gantt/Chandler joint byline is now the Observer coverage team for all things Panthers.
You don’t see Sorensen or Fowler blogging about them any more.
I agree that Gantt will not go out of his way to stir up controversy.
No, he didn't Tweet anything yesterday
If he starts putting stuff out there today I’ll try again
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Except they can do it with Pike and Cantwell?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I read this whole damn post. Lol.
Only took me about an hour. And in that hour the thing that I kept wondering was…
Is it so bad to make a move EVEN IF it’s solely based on a budget? Anybody remember last year when we had a guy who was probably overpaid, a guy who played really well in some cases and appeared to shut it down in others? And remember what happened when we started to have some injuries? We couldn’t afford to reach out to quality, veteran backups who were sitting on their rumps because we were so handcuffed from a financial standpoint. So we signed a bunch of warm bodies, some of whom surprised and played well. But the majority of them either cost us with their play at a specific position, or ended up riding the bench with injuries of their own.
I just don’t see anything wrong with giving the guys that we’ve drafted an opportunity. We’ve scouted them, assessed them, talked to them about their habits on and off the field, scrutinized them, and then re-assessed and re-scouted them. I cannot think that an organization like the Panthers hasn’t done their due diligence on this. The players coming in to fill the void of Harris are not daisy-fresh rookies. We are UNPROVEN on defense, not bad, at least not yet. To assume that we will fail with unproven players out on the field is pessimistic to the extreme. How many NFL teams that are competing for the playoffs AREN’T in the position where they have a core group of good players leading some inexperienced and unproven players on the field? Chris Harris was unproven at one time wasn’t he?
I have seen two teams in the last five or six years have great success letting over-priced/older players go. The Patriots let Asante Samuel walk and he was widely considered one of the best going at CB, both when they let him go and now. The Steelers have also had success letting high-quality veteran players go, either through trades or free agency. I mean, was James Harrison a household (in football of course) name before he won DPOY and MVP of the Super Bowl? I could have told you he played for the Steelers but that he was a very average player….before Pittsburgh moved guys/let them go so he could get some PT, that is.
Point is, we need to be more moderate when discussing our concerns with a product that we haven’t even seen on the field yet. Who knows….maybe the Panthers FO still have their eyes on some vets who haven’t gotten the call yet, to fill these “voids” some of our less optimistic bloggers refer to. Would be a really good reason for saving something for a rainy day.
by The Kackalack Kid on May 5, 2010 7:40 PM EDT reply actions
Your examples prove my point!
The Patriots and Steelers have had great success doing that because they only do it with a couple guys, and those guys are surrounded by veteran leadership and experience. We are doing it with our entire D-Line… that is a completely different animal.
Great minds talk about ideas, small minds talk about people" - Eleanor Roosevelt
Gamble is a veteran in the secondary
Along with Beason and TD in the linebacking corps. Brayton is a vet on the D-line. Go look at my post above, we’re not having as much turnover on the defensive side of the ball as you keep stating.
Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.
by Flowing Willow on May 6, 2010 4:05 AM EDT up reply actions

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