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Notes from day two of mini camp

Not a lot of information out of Panthers camp today with only Darin Gantt Tweets available to nourish a hungry fanbase. Despite the lack of information there are some promising signs from Gantt's words as he talks about the look of the four QBs, Dwayne Jarrett and the Panthers' defensive rookies.

More after the jump

Star-divide

We'll start with Gantt's last Tweet from the first day of mini camp relating to his opinion of Jimmy Clausen:

First impression of Clausen: Kid throws a nice ball. Has reached out to teammates, made himself available. Now he just has to beat Moore.

Nothing earth-shattering in Gantt's words, and essentially tells us what we already know. This should give us a baseline for his opinion on the young QB as we can measure it against future comments. Don't be surprised in Gantt gives a somewhat Clausen biased appraisal of the QB position, as (in my opinion) he is clearly not sold on Matt Moore judging from past posts. But nice to see he's reaching out to teammates, it goes further to dispelling some of the pre-draft myths about Clausen.

 

Gantt's first tweet of day two brought the shocking overhaul of the Panthers' defense into light:

Panthers realization of the day: With T.Davis taking Sat. off, only three starters on D who held those jobs in '09: Beason, Gamble, Godfrey.

It's hard to believe these are the only players left of defense from the 2009 starters. Lots of players getting their opportunities. Also needs to be noted that Gantt has suspended any conversation of Richard Marshall, hopefully he doesn't know something we don't.

 

As the day continued Gantt turned his attention back to the quarterbacks and WRs, particularily Dwayne Jarrett when he said:

Several nice Dwayne Jarrett catches in the afternoon practice. I'll have to see it translate in the regular season to believe it, but still.

I'm in the same boat as Darin on this one. Once bitten, twice shy, third time ??. This marks the third preseason where we've heard encouraging reports regarding Dwayne Jarrett only to be let down in August during the preseason games. I truly hope he's turned a corner, but I'm too wary to bank of it.

 

We all know the QB position is deeper than it's been in a long time, even though the corps as a whole is incredibly young. Gantt seems impressed with the group too:

The Panthers may have never had four QBs in camp who can throw like these four can. There's generally been a rag-arm or two in there.

Lets hope the group keeps it up. I see Hunter Cantwell as being the odd man out at the moment. While I believe the Panthers like him very much don't be surprised if we lose him to a team much like the Cowboys lost Matt Moore when they cut him in hopes of putting him on the practice squad.

 

Finally some news about the Panthers' defensive rookies Eric Norwood and Greg Hardy:

Greg Hardy and Eric Norwood each showed flashes of pass-rush in the afternoon session. Going to be interesting to see them in pads.

If there's one thing the Panthers need on defense, it's more pass rushers. Hopefully the two rookies will be hungry enough to translate their early play into on field performance. Both have the potential to be two of the biggest defensive steals of the draft, let's hope they can prove something.

 

Like I said, nothing earth shattering but at this point do we need earth shattering news? It's been eventful enough as a Panthers' fan this offseason, now it's all about the guys stepping up and playing.

Comment 272 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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I know it doesn't mean much now..

But here is a really awesome write up of yesterday morning. Mr Scot had some really interesting observations and goes into more depth than anyone else. If nothing else it’s an entertaining read. What got me really excited is all the good things i’m hearing about Armanti.

by EyeSack on May 1, 2010 8:12 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I love it

Damn I can’t wait!

Richardson you better not screw this up for me!

by STEVEN 785 on May 1, 2010 8:14 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

You and me both

This is the first time since he’s been drafted where a true fire has been lit under him.

With LaFell, Moore, Gettis, Wright and Martin all on the roster if he fails to show signs of improvement then he’ll be out of a job.

Don’t sleep on Wallace Wright at WR. He’s being left out of the equation a lot, but Jets fans will tell you that he was starting to show signs of being a factor in their passing offense.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 1, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

i think having people push him from behind, a new QB under center will both help him do better. I still think he can be great, but another year of mediocrity and I think he will officially deserve the bust label.

by SouthernPanther on May 1, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

They said that for two or three seasons about Wright...

Unfortunately, every Taye Biddle doesn’t succeed. We do know, however, that he’ll make his keep on ST units.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

The new receiver we signed was on the cover of NCAA 2010..

I googled Trent Guy to find out more about him and the Pic came up. I guess he spent last year recovering from being shot in the back after some disagreement about his girlfriend..

by UNCMattyt99 on May 1, 2010 8:57 PM EDT reply actions  

No, he wasn't

That was something someone made in photoshop. The cover athletes were Sanchez, Crabtree, Orakpo, and Brian Johnson (Utah QB).

by Ol' Uncle Munnerlyn on May 1, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Minicamp Report

http://www.panthers.com/media-vault/videos/Minicamp-Report/e9fd9698-3367-4277-bc29-67610ca13b2f#?id=9cc1d6e1-2dd6-4294-a20c-ed130e04a4f4

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 1, 2010 10:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Try this one

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 1, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does anyone else think it is possible that marshall gets traded.

i mean we have alot of depth now and could get another decent player for him. im not saying get rid of him simply do yall think hes on the block?

by pantherpride on May 1, 2010 10:48 PM EDT reply actions  

no

i don’t think so…i’m pretty sure he’ll eventually sign his deal and suck it up and play…obviously he wasn’t worth anything more or else someone else woulda signed him to an offer sheet

by SouthernPanther on May 1, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

And/or anyone, period, outside of Mike Bell.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly, we'd get very little fo Richard Marshall in a trade.

No teams entertained the idea of signing him to a 2nd round tender, so that is the baseline for his value, something less than a 2nd rounder.

Now, you compound this with contractual issues which bumps his value down at least another round. Now we’re looking at a 4th rounder.

Then you couple that with the Santonio Holmes trade which set he value for veterans incredibly low. It’s a bad recipe given Richard Marshall has no time left on his contact. I think he’ll suck it up, plat and be gone in the off season.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 1, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

IDK

I mean there have been plenty of players who have done the same thing…I think this is getting a little blown out of proportion…this is no worse than a rookie holding out IMO. I like Richard Marshall…If anything it will motivate him to play harder this season to prove he’s worth a bigger contract.

by SouthernPanther on May 1, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

The quotes of heard on the matter

From Fox and from Captain Munnerlyn, seem to indicate its not a big deal. They both said they expect him back soon.

by EyeSack on May 2, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Even if he makes the Pro Bowl, I don't know if we'll keep him

I think the organization put a lot of dollars into Chris Gamble (better or for worse) as a no.1 corner (6 years, $53.5 million). Depending on how much money Rosenhaus and Marshall are looking for I don’t know if they’ll be much to allocate.

Next offseason we’ll need to give contact extensions to:
- DeAngelo Williams
- Ryan Kalil
- Thomas Davis

If the holdout is based on wanting a big contact extension I don’t know if that’s going to happen.

Given that

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 2, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Williams

Didnt Williams just get re-signed earlier in the off-season?

by panthers711 on May 2, 2010 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, he hasn't been.

Rotoworld still lists him as:

2010: $2.1 million
2011: Free Agent

I don’t recall hearing anything about an extension, and they’re normally up to date

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 2, 2010 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

No doubt

I have no reason to believe an extension for DWill wont be done soon

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 2, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought they couldn't offer him an extension

due to the collective agreement. He would only get a 30% raise in his contract and would have to get a lot of guaranteed bonuses front loaded into the deal to make it worth his while. DWill will get his new contract once the new agreement has been signed by the union and the owners.
Luckily he and Stewart are like brothers, and will probably take a little less than open market value to stay together if we have put together a contender.

If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.

-The Vandals

by Oi2dwrld on May 2, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

You almost have it, but it's the other way around

The 30% raise only applies to his salary in 2010. It’s designed so teams can’t restructure and front load their entire roster having little or no money count against the cap.

The Panthers could sign D-Will to an extension, provided he doesn’t make more than $3.12 million in 2010 (a 30% raise from his 2009 salary). They could sign him to an extension and backload it, or structure it normally past 2010.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 2, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks James for the clarification.

If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.

-The Vandals

by Oi2dwrld on May 3, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, they cannot.

The 30% rule applies to year-to-year growth in base salary throughout the length of the contract.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is true

It’s not limited to 2010 only

Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.

by Sniff on May 3, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gosh...

Sucks to be so “foolish.”

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uh-oh..

Thomas Davis will be 28 (or pushin’ it) when it’s time to resign.. The F.O. might be planning on having none of the old geezer! Maybe they’re planning on a Williams/Beason/Norwood line up of the future.

50% joke/50% fear.

Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A

by D-Ranged1 on May 2, 2010 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

They're probably more wary of his knee injury.

He steps to the left, he steps to the riiiiiiight. That Amos Roberts, he'll make you look shite!

by OldhamA on May 2, 2010 4:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

The one he's already recovered enough in five months from to fully participate in practices?

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who is this guy? He's right again

Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.

by Sniff on May 3, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

You've just met Michael Procton.

Not sure if he was around when you first started posting, I’m guessing not, otherwise you wouldn’t still be here.

Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.

by Flowing Willow on May 4, 2010 3:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure its about really wanting a whole lot of money

but just wanting a guarunteed contract with some years on it so he knows he’s got a paycheck.

by SouthernPanther on May 2, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually...

Most RFAs (even top ones like Barrett Ruud) have signed their tenders and sohwn up.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, not necessarily.

Maybe we could get a second back since the team wouldn’t also have to commit to a long-term deal.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holmes trade was completely different.

He was a problem child who was run out of town. Marshall has been behaved off the field.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

"We have a lot of depth???"

Seriously? You want to run a bunch of seventh-rounders and UFAs out there for our #2-5 CB positions? Ugh.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Worked last year

Captain Munnerlyn, seventh round. C.J. Wilson, seventh round. Dante Wesley was a fifth rounder, but still.

Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.

by Flowing Willow on May 4, 2010 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

How many of those guys started again?

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Merely pointing out draft status does not determine future success.

All the guys mentioned played significant roles last season.

Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.

by Flowing Willow on May 5, 2010 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

That link up there from EyeSack...

Sure has me excited for Edwards..

“As to Edwards, his dreads are so long that you can only make out "Ed" on the back of his jersey. Running routes, he’s fast, and seems to have taken up Steve Smith’s habit of always going full speed no matter what. Saw a few passes thrown his way, and watched him catching punts from Baker. For the record, I didn’t see a football that came his direction hit the ground. If he dropped anything, I missed it.”

Why does this man insist on getting me overly excited when football is still so, so far away?

Overall Panthers Draft Grade: A

by D-Ranged1 on May 2, 2010 12:35 AM EDT reply actions  

agreed

especially that he gives effort like steve…omg i’m so freaking excited for this year now

by SouthernPanther on May 2, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

THIS!!!

Its killing me.

I read somewhere (can’t remember) that Smitty was trying to help Edwards out, before camp or something like that. That’s good news for me.

Richardson you better not screw this up for me!

by STEVEN 785 on May 2, 2010 11:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Go Armanti Go!!!

Silence the doubters and the haters!

by Tater596 on May 2, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because he's got TBS!

No, not the Superstation, Taye Biddle Syndrome!

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anyone else see Carolina huddle Sat. night?

They went a bit into the QB controversy with Matt and he responded great. No one could say that he sounded anything but excited to get to work. Exactly what you would expect from a veteran QB.

He talked a little bit about how he’s now the leader in the QB room. He also talked a bit about how they addressed the WR position in the draft. Also Matt spoke about how he has done some research into the new WRs and said that they had drafted some real play makers.

A great interview by Matt all around.

by patosan on May 2, 2010 1:30 AM EDT reply actions  

Sadly I missed it

But I’m glad to hear that whatever tone was present to my ears (please let’s not go back there) was absent and yesterday was the exception rather than the rule.

I like that he’s been researching the new WRs, it shows the development of the leadership characteristics he needed to be a complete player.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 2, 2010 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

take a look...

http://www.panthers.com/media-vault/videos/Panthers-Huddle/4d2f5bc4-b3bd-4ccb-8ccb-41f3927114b5

Warning: There is to be no extensive arguing about the demeanor or attitude of Matt Moore or Jimmy Clausen or any other QB for that matter with regards to this interview. All responsible in such an act will face a fine of up to $250,000 and/or 5 years in prison.

by SouthernPanther on May 2, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

"The challenge is not against each other, but against yourself."

Good attitude. From what we’ve seen in recent interviews with both Clausen and Moore, it sounds to me as if there’s a good team-first chemistry developing.

Moore talks about lending his experience to the “younger guys,” as he got the last 3 years from his seniors, and then taking it to the field. Nobody sounds cocky, everybody sounds relaxed and eager to play.

by bigdavis on May 2, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for posting it!

I like what I’m hearing… and by that I infer no judgement on is tone therein.

Who was he throwing passes to? I didn’t get a good enough look at the WR.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 2, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL...

Moore and his half a season worth of playing time is not a “veteran.” He’s an unproven QB hoping he can finally win a position battle in camp for the first time in his career.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

They're all super-athletic.

Probably the types who are going to make plays in shorts.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

who all can i follow on twitter to get panthers updates that i want???

Please and thank you….fyi I don’t do twitter I don’t know anything about it.

Richardson you better not screw this up for me!

by STEVEN 785 on May 2, 2010 11:04 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

@daringantt is the best source there is.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

thanks mp

Anyone else?

Thomas Davis, Jon Beason, Eric Norwood, Dan Conner, James Anderson, and Jamar Williams are our LB corp!!!!

Tank (306) and Leonard (325) will stop the run and collapse the pocket! I promise!

Our front 7 will be BEAST!

by STEVEN 785 on May 3, 2010 9:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

You mean that guy who makes you look like an idiot?

Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.

by Sniff on May 3, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK, i'm done

Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.

by Sniff on May 3, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

no need to provoke him

Let’s stay on the high road Sniff

Follow Cat Scratch Reader on Twitter and Facebook

by Jaxon on May 4, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/carolina-panthers/35822-minicamp-morning-session.html

this was psoted above just want to make sure no one missed it.. great breakdown of camp

by SouthernPanther on May 2, 2010 12:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Hey guys – Just FYI… You guys have the 4th youngest starting OL in the NFL…

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2010/5/2/1454582/age-and-the-ol-why-the-2010

by JimmyK on May 2, 2010 12:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Works for me! Thanks for the comment

We have two probowlers in Jordan Gross and Kyan Kalil and I wholly believe Otah can be another probowler in time.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 2, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice analysis and write-up

Looks like it could be a rough year for the ‘Boys o-line. On a more personal note, I had to check out the Saints and Falcs. They’re getting up there, too. Both in top 10 oldest lines. Whether this all translates to wins/losses remains to be seen. Injuries can hit young and old alike, so depth is always important. But I do get the point about the older guys wearing down as the season goes on. I know I do, and I’m just watching on TV.
Bottom line: Panthers having a young and talented o-line with depth is just another strength that keeps me optimistic about our offense this season.

by Rick Bates on May 2, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Experience playing together, and the communication that brings, is key to success in the OL

With the exception of RG, we’ve got that, and youth, too. Good combination for years of success.

by bigdavis on May 2, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1 bigd...

Totally agree that it’s the familiarity born of playing together that makes an elite o-line, and having a pro-bowler at center and LT is pretty good, too.

by Rick Bates on May 2, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then again...

Our line in ’08 returned no starters whatsoever, and it worked out pretty well.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1 bigd...

Totally agree that it’s the familiarity born of playing together that makes an elite o-line, and having a pro-bowler at center and LT is pretty good, too.

by Rick Bates on May 2, 2010 1:33 PM EDT reply actions  

ROFL

daringantt
.@MichaelProcton Having a budget and trying to win not mutually exclusive. Would Fox prefer vets? Obviously.

Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.

by Sniff on May 2, 2010 5:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Personally, I prefer this one from April 20th
Ridiculous assertion. RT @MichaelProcton And why would you, when you’re not actually trying to win? (Hurney, re:not being locked on needs.)

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 2, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fox doesn't seem to find it so ridiculous.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Based on???

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

The fact that he admitted we're making trades based on financial consideration rather than making the team better.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

He did no such thing

If you can show me where he said precisely that, then I’ll admit I was wrong.

If this is another assertion thrown out there solely for shock value with no basis, then we can leave it here without reply needed.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about saying budget as his only reason for trading Harris?

Or cutting the entire starting defense except 4 players? These payroll moves are not blatantly obvious.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/03/john-fox-has-the-panthers-budget-on-his-mind/

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

  • These payroll moves ARE blatantly obvious.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

THANK YOU!

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fox never said budget was the ONLY reason

Let’s not forget, this is the same guy who said money wasn’t the reason Delhomme was cut. I think Fox will pretty much say anything to lessen the blow on guys he has respect for, and I think he has respect for Harris.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Futhermore:

If money was the sole reason and motivating factor for trading Harris then why not trade or cut him during the over 30 purge?

If the organization were cutting players with reckless abandon and without care for what it would do to the team then why wait? Because it proves the opposite.

In keeping Harris through the draft that tells me that the organization were looking to move him, but not at the expense of their ability to complete. Thus, when the draft rolls around and the Panthers get a guy they like in Jordan Pugh, a guy they think can be a backup safety then they had that (forgive the pun) safety net to address trading Harris without sacrificing their ability to compete.

There is no other compelling reason to keep Harris past the over 30 purge unless the organization wanted to ensure they had the pieces available to lose him and stay strong. Just as they did with the other players cut.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

OH!

So they decided that they’d have a sixth-round pick who could replace their former starter and NFL stat leader! Got it! I guess that’s why they cut Damione Lewis, because they knew they had Nick Hayden to replace him!

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

So, must have missed the memo where I said Jordan Pugh was going o start... I swore I said this:
Thus, when the draft rolls around and the Panthers get a guy they like in Jordan Pugh, a guy they think can be a backup safety then they had that (forgive the pun) safety net to address trading Harris without sacrificing their ability to compete.


BACKUP

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 4, 2010 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sounding more like it was a variety of things...

They liked the guys they had sitting behind Harris, Harris isn’t getting any younger, and getting rid of C. Harris’ vet paycheck was another factor in the decision.

by patosan on May 3, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was the top reason that came to mind when he was asked

Seriously James, if any other team just cut almost all of their over 30 defensive starters… you’d never claim it had nothing to do with salary dumps. Objectivity please!

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

One factor does not equal sole reason

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 4, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Unless that one factor is...

Them cutting all expensive players in favor of cheap ones… That’s a pretty clear sign that budget is involved, to anybody whose not emotionally attached to the team.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 4, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, thank God you're not.

Wouldn’t want you to get “burnt” again.

by bigdavis on May 4, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gamble is expensive, why hasn't he been cut?

Gross is nearly 30, and he sure is expensive. Smith is 30. Harris was only costing us some 900k I believe, the budget may have had something to do with it, but it certainly wasn’t the only reason.

Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.

by Flowing Willow on May 5, 2010 4:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

My take on it is...

The o-line, of which Gross is a key part), is very good AND they are young enough that even through a potential lockout, they could come back a quickly shake off any rust.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 5, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

We don't know what he was asked...

At least I haven’t seen the question. If he was asked something like, “Was CH let go because of money?” then his response sounds a lot different than if the question was, “Why did you let CH go?”.

by patosan on May 4, 2010 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

OK, here's your link:

On why the decision was made to trade safety Chris Harris: “We’ve got a budget…”

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

AND THAT HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT....

Parse, parse, parse.

Fox didn’t say:
“The sole reason we traded Chris Harris was due to a budget”
“We wouldn’t have traded Harris if we didn’t have a budget”
“I wanted to keep Harris, but it’s this darn budget”

What he did say was: “We have a budget and that had something to do with it”

In the case of Fox’s statement ‘something’ was used as an adverb meaning ‘to some extent, or somewhat’ this also indicates that there was ‘something’ else that was a factor too, and if that wasn’t the case he wouldn’t have used the term ‘something’.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 4, 2010 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

"...something to do with it"

Again I’ll state the qualifier ‘something’ can’t be overlooked. It is typical Fox-speak, not unusual as some are saying. It covers whatever would have been somebody else’s more complete answer, the rest of which we can only guess at.

My own guess: that he didn’t want to be unprofessional, and state for the record that they thought Harris slacked off in turnovers produced, and that Godfrey showed them he was coming on (4 FF’s) in the same area.

Had Fox said, “…everything to do with it” we wouldn’t be spending all this time on it.

It’s done…it is what it is.

by bigdavis on May 4, 2010 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've said all along that it's a combination of issues

- Money played a role
- Performance played a role
- Faith in Martin and Godfrey played a role

It’s all a rich tapestry

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 4, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

You are entitled to your guesses

It’s just not a good argument against someone who is taking Fox at his word, in a year when they are clearly making budget cuts.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 4, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well he also didn't mention horses flying out his !#$

But that doesn’t mean we should assume it. You are trying to argue that budget isn’t a factor, with no proof.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 4, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Where did I say budget wasn't a factor?

I keep reading that I said it was one factor, but not the sole factor

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 4, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Who said it was the "sole" factor?

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 4, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

You did
How about saying budget as his only reason for trading Harris?
Or cutting the entire starting defense except 4 players? These payroll moves are not blatantly obvious.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/03/john-fox-has-the-panthers-budget-on-his-mind/

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 4, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Budget WAS the only reason he gave for trading Harris.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indeed it was...

However, he also clearly said it was ‘something to do with it’ not ‘everything to do with it’

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 4, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see "it's the sole factor" in there

I said it’s the ONLY reason Fox said. Which is 100% true. Which implies it’s probably the most important factor.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 4, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

C'mon ST, you have to agree with James on this....

…or at least see what he is saying.

You’re intentionally being provocative right? For fun? Like Procto?

Obviously budget and salary plays a role – and both should in responsible roster decisions. But If budget were the ONLY concern like you are insinuating that is the case, why keep ANY starters? Hell cut Beason, Davis, & Gamble too right?

The Panthers are redoing their Defense in the mold of what Ron Meeks wants.(OT- but IF Fox is gone after this year Ron Meeks will be the head coach)

 Harris was a good player and one of my favorites, but that doesn’t mean that trading him and going younger (and cheaper too) wasn’t the best course of action in the long run. Considering the strides made by the D in the late stages of last season, i am willing to trust Meeks’ and Furney to put a competitive D on the field this season.

by dudemanhey on May 4, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm taking things literally, you guys are the ones making guesses

Let me ask you this. “Budget” was the only reason Fox mentioned. What/whose budget is he referring to? Why would there be a budget so tight we have to cut almost all of our starters in an UNCAPPED year?

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 4, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

to get ready for the new cap

its smart. We’re setting ourselves up to be ahead of the game in the future, while teams like Chicago who are dishing out huge contracts are gonna have to cut players in their prime b/c they can’t afford them. It makes perfect sense to me…

by SouthernPanther on May 4, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

The new cap the players said they'd never accept again?

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one wins in a lockout

Given that the NFL holds most of the cards, I’d say that the players will capitulate, eventually.

Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.

by Flowing Willow on May 5, 2010 4:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Makes sense to me too

So why do I get ripped for implying that some of our moves might not be to make us better in 2010?

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 4, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're in fact guessing just as much as we are.

We are interpretting the “something” to include other, mitigating factors. You are interpretting the order in which he stated the factors to sort importance.

BTW, we haven’t cut almost all of our starters. Five on defense (Kemo, Lewis, Peppers, Diggs, Harris), and four on offense (Delhomme, Hoover, Muhammad, Vincent). Nine out of twenty two.

Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.

by Flowing Willow on May 5, 2010 4:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

The order? He only said one thing.

This is really dumb… You don’t cut all these players, then the coach only mentions “budget”, and then assume budget isn’t the main factor. This is logic 101.

And I was talking about defensive starters, of which we only have 3 on the roster. We will be filling as many as 7-8 starting defensive spots… Normal rationale will conclude that that’s a daunting task!

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 5, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Starting defensive lineup from last year, with starters this year bolded.

Peppers
Kemo
Lewis
Brayton
Davis
Beason
Connor
Gamble
Marshall
Godfrey
Harris

I see only five new starters on defense. Five and a half if you count Godfrey moving to strong safety. There’s not as much turnover on the defense as you would think.

And just because Fox mentioned only one reason doesn’t mean it was the only reason, or even the most important one. His quote was this, “We had a budget, and that had something to do with it.” If he had said, “We had a budget.” then I would agree with you.

Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.

by Flowing Willow on May 6, 2010 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, have you ever studied Logic?

Because what you are implying goes against everything that a “Logic 101” class would teach..

Just saying…

by dudemanhey on May 7, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

He also ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about any other reason whatsoever.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Come on guys

Sigh, ok, I give up again.

Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.

by Sniff on May 3, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was asked why we traded Harris:

He didn’t say we were looking to get faster at safety, he didn’t say we needed to add depth at LB and special teams, he didn’t say we’d had our eye on Williams. He said we had a budget. Budgets aren’t about making your team better. Ask any baseball team not named the Yanks, Red Sox, Mets, Phils, or Cubs.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

He also mentioned "budget" in an uncapped year

Meaning this has nothing to do with the league, only JR.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

We're you actually there? Do you know what context that was in? Did he quote himself as to the ACTUAL question?

Or what he asked before? Or after? Or WHEN?

You’re not an authority because you have a twitter account and talk back and forth to Gantt, especially when he makes you look as foolish as almost all of us do.

Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.

by Sniff on May 3, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I do.

He was asked why the trade happened. Feel free to go to Panthers.com, the official site of the Carolina Panthers.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

No Mike, you don't

You don’t know the context of the question. You don’t know the when/where/why/how the question was asked, You don’t know anything about what preceded it. YOU JUST DON’T KNOW

Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.

by Sniff on May 4, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks, Neil

I, for one, will take what you say to heart, and try to keep the discussions civil. And I know from experience around here that James will, too. Not sure (but hopeful) that MP will, also; I’ve tried your ‘appeal to reason’ approach with him before, to no avail. There’s a pH factor to be dealt with, and I’m not sure we’ve got enough soda to change it.

by bigdavis on May 4, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's a maturity thing...

…and knowing how to present a point of view without belittling or devaluing others…or just to perpetuate an argument. It’s okay for everyone to be passionate. And I take what you say as exactly that. You’re a generally level-headed guy. You know how and when to make a point about something. You generally prove accepting of how others view things, or know when to let it go if a difference of opinion lingers.

But I always see Procton return to form in any discussion he participates. Same approach. Same feuding carried over from one discussion topic to the next. And the same reaction from everyone when he does it. He never learns. He doesn’t even seem to care to learn. And so, we get these sprawling comment-by-comment tug-of-wars over ridiculous assertions that don’t matter.

Meanwhile, new people show up to participate on the site and run smack dab into Procton’s abrasive, show-you-up mentality and it just isn’t good for the discourse here. I find it annoying at best, and it boils away my interest in participating on discussion sites about the Panthers in almost every circumstance. His ability to stir up crap on the Observer site pretty much drove me away from even trying to hold an intelligent discussion there. I found this place and it’s much more open, lively, intelligent, and supportive. And I’d hate to move on from here because of Procton and others who enflame this kind of arguing for argument’s sake.

And that’s my two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on May 4, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I lobbied for banning him...

…on the basis that his posts, while occasionally offering some new insight (usually involving contracts, or league regulations) were most often snide, demeaning, incendiary, and descriptive of a troll wanting to cause trouble.

This was not accepted by the moderators, and I understand their liberal thinking on the matter. But you see where it gets us, and especially the newer contributors. Some may leave, and we are left with his detritus.

by bigdavis on May 4, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your prerogative to be anywhere you want to be.

I don’t violate this site’s ToS as so many others do on a regular basis.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

*clap* *clap* *clap*

Way to avoid the road less-traveled, Procton. Always self-serving to the end. You demonstrate yet again you can’t accept responsibility for the way you choose to behave in a public forum. It’s never your fault, and it’s always someone else who’s in the wrong. You always stand on never having violated the rules-as-written. And so you believe you’re taking the high road everytime. And yet you couldn’t be more wrong. The saddest part is that you’re completely oblivious to it.

by NSpicer on May 4, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well said Neil

Honestly I can’t explain why I keep letting him back in…he makes a good point about not violating the rules directly but your counter point to his tactics are spot on as well.

Please flag the comments that are ‘troll-like’ and maybe the cumulative sum will shed better light on it.

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by Jaxon on May 4, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps a better approach...

Would be to just ignore him when he makes a snide remark. (I’m not accusing him of anything, for the record.) But if he is doing it just to draw commentary and bait people into arguments, then why take the bait? Why give him what he (allegedly) wants? Just ignore his (interpreted by some) a-hole comments and only discuss topics with him when he presents himself as a reasonable human being (if in fact he does present himself in any other way).

He does have interesting commentary on the franchise and has the ability to talk about the team like the majority of the people here, and perhaps if people just leave him alone when he tries to start ad nauseum arguments about Jake vs. Moore or starts claiming that the world is against him for being a fake fan, maybe he will stop. (If he is doing anything wrong, that is.)

I truly believe that if he is in fact a troll like some people claim, and is consistently ignored when he tries his troll routine that he is accused of doing, he will go somewhere else. If the accusations of trolldom against him are true he won’t be able to stand not being the center of attention and will find somewhere else to argue with people. This is true of any online forum – trolls can’t stand to be ignored and will go wherever their need for an argument is met. (Again, I’m not saying MP is a troll, I’m just going off the consensus of several people here.)

But continuing to argue with him ad infinitum will solve nothing, and will leave a lot of people more pissed off in the end when the situation could have been avoided by taking the high road and just ignoring him when he (allegedly) makes a sarcastic remark to start a pissing contest and feed his (alleged) inferiority complex.

Honestly, there are way too many other things to be excited about and talk about than to worry over whether or not any member is a troll and to engage in conversations that anyone who has been here longer than 10 minutes knows will only wind up being a back and forth insult-fest.

Sorry for such a long comment, but I had to put my take on the matter out there.

Thanks to the Denver Broncos, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.

My Panthers Blog | My Twitter Page

by BW Smith on May 5, 2010 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Neil and BW are spot on point

I know I’ve been guilty on many occasions of feeding the troll (alleged). And MP has gone to different sites at times, but he always comes back here. For the CSR veterans, ignoring him (or his persona) is probably the best course of action, and should any new contributors fall under his bridge, we can pull them out.

Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.

by Flowing Willow on May 5, 2010 4:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely agree guys...

I generally ignore MP, even if he’s making a valid point about something. Unfortunately, he comes and goes a lot and not everyone (particularly new members) understand how he conducts himself online. And so they get sucked into some argument/disagreement with him that just mucks up the discussion. If the moderators and CSR veterans can keep an eye out for that kind of thing, maybe it can be headed off before it detracts from the forum. Generally, I call him (and them) on it when I see it developing. But I don’t…and can’t…crawl through every thread to root it out.

Just my two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on May 5, 2010 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

always the voice of reason….nice post Neil

by SouthernPanther on May 4, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, we now know the Harris trade was about money

And straight from the horses mouth… the horse that rarely tells…

http://blogs.charlotte.com/panthers/2010/05/fox-closes-minicamp-with-candor.html

Sounds like the Panthers weren’t trying to make the position better, they simply grabbed the best offer they could get.

And Fox clearly isn’t himself. When has he ever spoken so frankly? I think he’s upset about some decisions made recently, and is now freely acting as if it’s his last season.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 2, 2010 10:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Lost alot of respect for Gantt

There was no mention of how the question was posed, and in what context the answer was given.

If the question was posed as “You got a good LB in the deal, and will now be able to get Martin and Godfrey on the field at the same time, was there any other reasons?” And he answered,

“We’ve got a budget,” he replied matter-of-factly. “And that had something to do with it.”

That is a completely different context than if posed as “Why was Chris Harris traded?” and he replied

“We’ve got a budget,” he replied matter-of-factly. “And that had something to do with it.”

Of course, we don’t know the context of the question or answer or what lead in questions were asked. So the whole article is a pile of steaming horseshit.

The bottom line is, we now will have our best two safeties on the field, we got a quality LB in the deal, got rid of a big contract of a player in decline, and are in a better all-around position after the trade than before.

Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.

by Sniff on May 2, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1000000

those are great points Sniff

Thomas Davis, Jon Beason, Eric Norwood, Dan Conner, James Anderson, and Jamar Williams are our LB corp!!!!

Tank (306) and Leonard (325) will stop the run and collapse the pocket! I promise!

Our front 7 will be BEAST!

by STEVEN 785 on May 3, 2010 2:18 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I see what you are saying but...

on the panthers.com transcript of the interview the quote is

On why the decision was made to trade safety Chris Harris: We’ve got a budget, and that had something to do with it.

It seems like there was nothing else to the question… at least none reported by the official website…

by ClaytonFire on May 3, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

So your plan is to deny all red flags?

So we can unjustly praise the Panthers greatness? Sounds fun, but at least I won’t be heart broken when Fox leaves next year.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 1:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Why celebrate Fox's firing if it happens?

It’s not his fault Richardson decided to prioritize saving money over winning.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think he'll be fired

Just speculation of course… But I think he’ll walk after this season. With things not going his way here, why not go to a much higher profile team that actually wants to sign him long term?

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

With no season currently scheduled...

He’ll have a hard time finding work for a while if he doesn’t get extended here.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Technically he won't have work during a lockout anyways

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

But he'll have a salary.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Will he?

The players don’t

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 4, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Somebody needs to look this up

It probably depends on who initiates the strike. 2011 could be really crazy.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 4, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't imagine why they would get paid

They’re not doing their jobs (playing), so I can’t imagine why they would get paid for playing football when they’re not playing football due to a lockout.

Thanks to the Denver Broncos, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.

My Panthers Blog | My Twitter Page

by BW Smith on May 4, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

They wouldn't get gameday checks

But I imagine other provisions would still allow them to get some measure of pay. I’ve never seen an NFL contract, so I can’t say for certain though.

Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.

by Flowing Willow on May 5, 2010 4:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Considering the scuttlebutt that Harris would have been cut even if they couldn’t find a trading partner, I think we can safely assume that money was a key factor.

by patosan on May 3, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Be mad at Gantt all you want.

Fox was telling it like it is.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I call BS on the 'Fox is angry at the organization and is lashing out' idea.

I’ve read it in a lot of comments and on a lot of message boards, and it simply doesn’t make any sense.

Let’s not forget, JR gave Fox the ability to entertain and accept offers from other teams as soon as the 2009 season ended. If Fox didn’t want to be in Carolina anymore he wouldn’t be. You think Chan Gailey, Tom Cable, Eric Mangini or Raheem Brock would still have jobs if Fox wanted any of them? I sure don’t.

Furthermore, if we’re to believe Fox knows this is his last season then which prospective owner is he impressing freely talking about the front office’s decisions in such an ‘out of character’ and critical manor?

Fox has always towed the party line, and I think it continues to be that way. If he truly didn’t agree with the organization’s moved then why say ’We’ve got a budget’ wouldn’t he say ‘I don’t know, you’ll have to ask Marty that’?

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Furthermore... (sorry for the double post)

Don’t get me wrong, I love the Hitman (especially as a leader) but he had a pretty mediocre 2009 season.

Even if you adjust his numbers and extrapolate his stats to accommodate for his 3 game injury you get:

73 tackles (19th among NFL SS)
7.3 PDef (12th among NFL SS)
3.69 INT (11th among NFL SS)
2.46 FF (6th among NFL SS)

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

while his numbers may not be all that impressive

he is a great leader in the secondary…I wonder if Godfrey or maybe Gamble will step up and become the leader int he secondary

by SouthernPanther on May 3, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

His leadership abilities will be undoubtably missed

While I’d love to see Godfrey or Gamble step up, ultimately I think Beason is a big enough personality and leader to speak for all of them.

It’s worked in Baltimore for years where their only true defensive leader is Ray Lewis.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Thomas Davis, Jon Beason, Eric Norwood, Dan Conner, James Anderson, and Jamar Williams are our LB corp!!!!

Tank (306) and Leonard (325) will stop the run and collapse the pocket! I promise!

Our front 7 will be BEAST!

by STEVEN 785 on May 3, 2010 2:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

*cough Ed Reed

Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.

by Flowing Willow on May 3, 2010 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd say Reed is more of a playmaker than a leader...

You rarely hear anything from Reed other than his play on the field…but Ray Ray talks ALL the time.

Thanks to the Denver Broncos, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.

My Panthers Blog | My Twitter Page

by BW Smith on May 3, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Huh?

Since when does talking define leadership? Was Rucker not a leader?

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're kidding yourself if you don't think Ed Reed is running that secondary.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely.

Remember the difference in the defense and the secondary upon his return? No stat for “getting people in the place they need to be doing what they need to do.”

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Raheem Brock is a defensive end for the Indianapolis Colts

And as the backup, he doesn’t have the job to lose!. Don’t mean to pry, but i think you meant to say someone else.

by jojoisthemann on May 3, 2010 5:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

*sigh

Yes, Raheem Morris…. I’ve been doing that too much lately…lol

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 6:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

What, you saying Foxy can't play anymore? LOL

Thanks to the Denver Broncos, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.

My Panthers Blog | My Twitter Page

by BW Smith on May 3, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hell no!

Fox would be taking the starter’s job! Freeney can move over to start on the left side, Mathis out of a job!

by jojoisthemann on May 3, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another angle might be

a message to the players union that being uncapped goes both ways. No ceiling AND no floor…I’m sure ownership thinks they overpay for those players that barely see the field. I’m convinced JR is out to reduce his payroll significantly with this move to serve as an example for the CBA negotiations.

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by Jaxon on May 3, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I absolutely agree

I still maintain though that if Fox was disgruntled he would have said something to the effect of ’you’ll have the ask ownership’ rather than being frank.

I totally see how playing cheap would send a message to the union, especially if the Panthers are successful in 2010.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

And if we flop?

What message will that send?

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

It will backfire ad JR has egg on his face, but the team are left with one of the best financial situations in the NFL

More pros than cons

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those players like the guys we cut?

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's a lot of explaining away the obvious

Why did they trade Harris? Because of the budget. Either Fox is lying or end of story.

Let’s also not forget Fox skipped the Clausen press conference, and cried when we let Jake go. I know it’s more fun to sing Panther praises (until a Panters cut, then proclaim why they weren’t that good), but clearly Fox is not himself this year.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 2:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

I gave you the precise reason Fox wasn't at the Clausen 'press conference'

If you want to ignore that and continue to make it seem like he hated the decision that’s your perogative, but Gantt pretty much spelled out what happened.

Hurney ran down to make a quick announcement (what you call a press conference) to the media pit but was in a hurry to get back to the war room. Gantt postulated the Panthers may be looking to make a trade, which explains why Fox remained in the war room.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't say he hated the pick

Just that multiple things have been out of character, and there could be a reason.

Are we only allowed to be skeptical or criticize a coach or player once he’s traded away? New Flash: The Panthers do not dominate in every facet of the game. And just as we argue and get frustrated, so do players and coaches.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course we're not, we can be critical of whoever we like

The fact remains though that regarding the specific issue of the Clausen conference there was a reported justification I gave you when you brought it up the first time in another thread. Restating it now as an attempt to characterize Fox as a lone wolf isn’t really fair when you had the justification for it.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's not a fact

You connected a string of events to come to that conclusion

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I connected a string of certainties and facts reported by someone who had an opportunity none of us did, to be in the media pit at BoA on draft day.

If someone who’s there whose career is based on reading and judging the organization then I’ll go with their instinct (i.e. that the Panthers were working the phones) over a blind hunch that Fox was pouting in the war room and disappeared for a ‘vote of no confidence’.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then why don't you go with their word also?

When they say stuff like Harris was cut for budget reasons?

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll go on Gantt's word, who said the contrary over Twitter
But to be clear, Harris being traded not about $$, more they like the two young guys they have and want them both on the field.

For NFL owners, GMs and coaches subterfuge is part of the job. Just look at all the lies that surround the draft.

I’m remaining steadfast on trusting Gantt’s observations, not relying on people who have a vested interest in what they’re saying.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok then, You stick with Gantt, I'll stick with Fox

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

And he doesn't?

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again, any basis or just wild claim?

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 4, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

He's a professional.

He wants as many people interested in possible. People don’t care about a team that doesn’t care to win.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just so I'm clear:

When you suggested to someone earlier to follow Gantt on twitter:

@daringantt is the best source there is.

You think he’s the best source there is, but also biased and will twist his information in a positive light to goad his readers into believing the Panthers’ organization are interested in winning when he knows that isn’t the case?

Something isn’t adding up to me.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 4, 2010 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Since when have you ever seen a beat writer burn his bridges with the organization he covers? That’s a sportswriter who won’t have a job for long.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then why advocate anyone follow him on Twitter? Why write to him over the same network?

I believe beat writers over conspiracy theorists and Gantt wouldn’t have been ‘burning any bridges’ in this scenario.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 4, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Watch out with all this negativity.

You’ll become a fake fan, and people will start throwing personal insults your way.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's good mentoring.

Taking him under your veteran wing, very nice.

by bigdavis on May 3, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Why did they trade Harris?"

“…a budget…had something to do with it.”

Why do you feel the budget had EVERYTHING to do with it?

I wasn’t there; I couldn’t hear if there was something in Fox’s tone (could you?) to indicate he was being sarcastic, or dismissive, or frustrated, or pissed, etc. Just taking his spoken words at face value, why couldn’t he have meant there were other factors than money involved in their decision to trade Harris — like the possibly simple fact that the staff felt he was past his prime, ill-suited to the scheme they planned to use, and that Godfrey had twice as many FF’s as Harris did last year?? I know Harris is the HitMan (did he give himself that nickname?) and was a turnover machine in 2007, but that was then, and this is now.

I’ll reiterate he was ranked #50 overall of 87 players who played Safety in the league last year. I don’t think the trade was bad for the Panthers. Maybe Fox just didn’t want to get into an adverse comment about Harris’ relative worth.

by bigdavis on May 3, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you BD

Was just about to type most of that.

Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.

by Sniff on May 3, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because that's the only reason he gave

It’s pretty funny that you are jumping on my back for taking Fox literally at his word, just so you can believe something different than what he said.

I love the team spirit and all… I for one think we’ll have a good offense. But you guys are taking your fandom too far when people cannot say anything remotely critical… even when it’s based on what the head coach said.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Cannot say anything remorely critical??

I’m just being critical of Harris, not Fox or Richardson or Hurney, or whomever you implicate in your indictment.

by bigdavis on May 3, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Harris isn't a Panther

Of course we can be critical of him now.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was critical of him when he first appeared on this site.

Told him to make more tackles, and quit pimping his Facebook sites.

Weren’t you here then?

by bigdavis on May 3, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

FAKE FAN!

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Beason was ranked #30 among LBs by your same site.

You’re suggesting we should ship him out of town/

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Thomas Davis, Jon Beason, Eric Norwood, Dan Conner, James Anderson, and Jamar Williams are our LB corp!!!!

Tank (306) and Leonard (325) will stop the run and collapse the pocket! I promise!

Our front 7 will be BEAST!

by STEVEN 785 on May 4, 2010 12:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

No.

Being reluctant to give out information which could hurt the Panthers in pressers and being a pushover are two different things.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Suprised

To see Ricky Proehl riding around mini-camp with the big cat.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/04/30/1408031/meet-the-new-panthers-at-minicamp.html?img=13
Didn’t he have a lawsuit against the panthers at one time? Maybe I have him confused with another white WR we had?

by ClaytonFire on May 3, 2010 8:39 AM EDT reply actions  

That was Patrick Jeffers

Medical malpractice lawsuit against Panthers team Dr.. Said Dr. ruined his career with additional procedures on his knee, or something close to that affect.

Knee jerk reaction - adj. 1. an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive. 2. a facilitator of long threads on Cat Scratch Reader and similar blogs.

by Sniff on May 3, 2010 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

ahh

thanks for that, was wondering why I couldn’t find anything about it on google, and as I thought about it more I figured I had the wrong person but couldn’t remember…

by ClaytonFire on May 3, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ricky Proehl loves the organization

He lives in Greensboro and I’ve had the opportunity to meet him on several occasions. Super nice guy, never has a bad word to say and always keeps up with the dealings of the organization.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nope,

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

intersting comment from Catman

over at carolina huddle

If you haven’t seen any pics so far of Moore and Clausen interacting, there’s a reason for that… they haven’t been. Both have talked to both Cantwell and Pike but I didn’t see them talk to each other once, the competition is on.

by ClaytonFire on May 3, 2010 9:06 AM EDT reply actions  

sigh

I hate drama…

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

This

Was/is my biggest beef with the Clausen pick.

Do or do not. There is no try.

by ERL on May 3, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

They could have spoke plenty before hitting the field

I wouldn’t read too much into it

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by Jaxon on May 3, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

Jaxon, and I hope that was true… just something to file away for future reference… I hope it doesn’t turn the locker room into a Cali drama room.

by ClaytonFire on May 3, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then why the difference from their interactions with the other QBs?

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't try to use logic to paint these guys as mere mortals

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've had plenty beef with Procto

I’m just trying to get you guys to have a little objectivity, instead of thinking every single off-season move the Panthers make is a home run… Because when we miss the playoffs it sounds ridiculous, and you guys completely flip-flop.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

you really are starting to annoy the crap out of me

I think that is your goal.

do you object with negativity every time someone in your family wants to try or learn something new?

I would hope you would encourage them. And you would let them know you believe in them and that they could do anything.

*for he record this is not an attack. I am just stating my position on the nature of the comments st is coming with constantly. I will copy and paste this for comments I see going this direction.

Thomas Davis, Jon Beason, Eric Norwood, Dan Conner, James Anderson, and Jamar Williams are our LB corp!!!!

Tank (306) and Leonard (325) will stop the run and collapse the pocket! I promise!

Our front 7 will be BEAST!

by STEVEN 785 on May 4, 2010 11:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I have been plenty optomisitc about our offense

You guys just can’t handle that our defense might not be that good this year

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 4, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

I said it once and I’ll say it again… in May optimism and pessimism are just as accurate as each other.

Personally, I don’t want to be expecting a horrible season before there’s even a snap- but if other prefer that line of thinking more power to them.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 4, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except you're a fake fan when you're not optimistic and positive about every move that's made.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 4, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

You need to get over this inferiority complex over one remark one random user said months ago

You keep spouting this ‘fake fan’ charge like it’s something we all accuse you of on a regular basis.

There’s a time where a healthy dose of skepticism becomes rampant cynicism. I firmly believe it’s in this cynicism where people would rather stand on a soapbox and feed into their own role as a cynic than continue to discuss a topic with a healthy dose of skepticism.

So while I personally don’t throw around monikers like ‘fake fan’ I also believe I understand the concept behind it (however poorly articulated it may be). This is the belief that the rampant cynics are so involved with their own agenda that it clouds their ability to discuss an issue without turning it into a topic about them rather than the topic at hand; it’s this same cynicism that causes inaccurate quotes, convenient parsing and a melodramatic tone that serves said agenda.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 4, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's different because it's more likely

Ok, maybe we shock the world, and show the NFL that you can drop your starters at will, because they’re so easy to replace.

But in the real world, chemistry, experience, proven talent, veteran leadership, etc. all have an important role. More likely, if this defensive team is really good it won’t be for a few years.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 4, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they arent that good then I can handle it.

But I don’t see any reason that we shouldn’t be good on D. Unless you think losing Peppers is going to hurt us. But I think as a whole our front 7 will achieve Peppers production and their own. I don’t see why we would be worse at DT. I have no reason to believe we will be. I don’t see how our LB corp has taken a step back. I don’t see how our DBs have regressed in the off season. Frankly I don’t see the D as worse. Yeah we lost some slow vets. So what? Its not like we are sending out 11 rookies and that’s all we got.

Thomas Davis, Jon Beason, Eric Norwood, Dan Conner, James Anderson, and Jamar Williams are our LB corp!!!!

Tank (306) and Leonard (325) will stop the run and collapse the pocket! I promise!

Our front 7 will be BEAST!

by STEVEN 785 on May 5, 2010 2:22 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

So replacing as many as 8 defensive starters is really quite easy?

Why don’t we do this every year then? A matter of fact, why do teams like New England waste so much on all those veterans. You are right… chemistry, experience, leadership… It’s all overrated.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 5, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think it's necessarily flip-flopping, ST...

It’s more that certain off-season moves inspire fans in different ways. Some people were up on Julius Peppers, some people were down. Some people were up on Jake Delhomme, some people were down. Some people think the youth movement is great, others think we’ve thrown the baby out with the bath water and given up some vital experienced veteran leadership for the cause of cost-cutting.

Bottom line: We’re all Panther fans and want to see the team (and franchise) succeed. Some people get super-invested in certain players. Some question the moves and decision-making of the FO. It’s okay to be passionate about those things. You don’t have to everyone to view things exactly the way you do for all to be right in the world. Loosen up a little. Discuss Panther-related events. Hypothesize. Theorize. Analyze. And avoid arguing over it. You can disagree, of course. Just no need to argue or take offense at every point of view that’s different, you know?

But that’s just my two-cents,
—Neil

by NSpicer on May 4, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right because no way Moore and Clausen don't get a long

They are incapable of normal human emotions

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

My bad... Maybe because it's rainy out

Maybe I’m Procto infected

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

It must be that he's "wrong" that he disagrees with you.

Great point.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did me using your name above summon you?

Ironic because I haven’t seen you on here in a couple months.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dropped by for the draft.

School’s been busy.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, you happy-go-lucky school lads.

Tenga cuidado! The job market awaits. Then ‘busy’ will redefine itself.

by bigdavis on May 3, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know

School all day + homework in the evening is a pain in the !@#.

I’d much rather be working.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

agree

college is hard as shit man…i hate exams…I’m on no sleep right now…

by SouthernPanther on May 3, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Particularly when you work twenty hours a week.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then you shouldn't be watching Sports

It’s all about ups and downs

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is not a bad thing

It means Moore is under pressure to be at his best. No room for him to slack off with a gym-rat, top prospect QB on his tail. Moore has to show the team he’s the boss, and will either get the job done, or somebody better than him will… It’s a win, win for Panther fans.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 2:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

It makes sense

They know that the other man could potentially beat them out for the starting job…it would make sense that there is going to be a period of time when they are just looking each other up and down. My hope is that having two QBs with starting aspirations does not effect the locker-room.

Do or do not. There is no try.

by ERL on May 3, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's why they got rid of Delhomme.

Maybe Moore’s out the door sooner than we think.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well they have declared him the starter for now, so they must have some hope in him

But on the other hand, if they were completely convinced they probably wouldn’t have drafted 2 QBs. Moore will get the nod, and if he doesn’t show up then they have a very good insurance policy behind him.

Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.

by ElBacano on May 3, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm gonna hold off judgment on this...

Until one of them wins the job. I want to see how the loser reacts. Until then, I’m just going to be optimistic and say that they are just so focused on being the starting QB that they don’t have time for chit-chat.

Thanks to the Denver Broncos, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.

My Panthers Blog | My Twitter Page

by BW Smith on May 3, 2010 9:53 AM EDT reply actions  

By "this" I meant the quote that ClaytonFire posted

I meant to hit reply – my bad.

Thanks to the Denver Broncos, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.

My Panthers Blog | My Twitter Page

by BW Smith on May 3, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm slightly concerned both ways

It could go either way:

A) Clausen doesn’t want to seek out Moore’s help because he’s trying to beat him in camp. This hurts his maturation
B) Moore doesn’t want to help Clausen because he’s trying to beat him in camp. This hurts Clausen’s maturation.

Either way, a lack of communication isn’t good for the organization. But given this is a second hand report from a fan I’ll reserve judgement until the media says something about it

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

cause its so unlike the media

to blow something out of proportion. I’m not sure I’d trust the media at this point either. They more than anyone would want to make up a story about drama among our quarterbacks.

by SouthernPanther on May 3, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

This wasn't from the media though

It was directly from a fan and his opinion. I’ve Tweeted Gantt to see if he knows anything, and will update if I get a response.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair point

Gantt is in the position he’s in though because he was allowed to get that close to the organization because he didn’t dramatize every move like some Charlotte Observer reporters used to. That’s why he became the ‘go to guy’ out of Rock Hill rather than the biggest newspaper in Charlotte.

I know he’s working for the Observer now too, but I don’t think he’ll jepordize his relationship with the team to make a story.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 3, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Gantt/Chandler joint byline is now the Observer coverage team for all things Panthers.

You don’t see Sorensen or Fowler blogging about them any more.

I agree that Gantt will not go out of his way to stir up controversy.

by bigdavis on May 3, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

James

any response from our Gantt tweet?

by ClaytonFire on May 4, 2010 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, he didn't Tweet anything yesterday

If he starts putting stuff out there today I’ll try again

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on May 4, 2010 6:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Except they can do it with Pike and Cantwell?

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on May 3, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I read this whole damn post. Lol.

Only took me about an hour. And in that hour the thing that I kept wondering was…

Is it so bad to make a move EVEN IF it’s solely based on a budget? Anybody remember last year when we had a guy who was probably overpaid, a guy who played really well in some cases and appeared to shut it down in others? And remember what happened when we started to have some injuries? We couldn’t afford to reach out to quality, veteran backups who were sitting on their rumps because we were so handcuffed from a financial standpoint. So we signed a bunch of warm bodies, some of whom surprised and played well. But the majority of them either cost us with their play at a specific position, or ended up riding the bench with injuries of their own.

I just don’t see anything wrong with giving the guys that we’ve drafted an opportunity. We’ve scouted them, assessed them, talked to them about their habits on and off the field, scrutinized them, and then re-assessed and re-scouted them. I cannot think that an organization like the Panthers hasn’t done their due diligence on this. The players coming in to fill the void of Harris are not daisy-fresh rookies. We are UNPROVEN on defense, not bad, at least not yet. To assume that we will fail with unproven players out on the field is pessimistic to the extreme. How many NFL teams that are competing for the playoffs AREN’T in the position where they have a core group of good players leading some inexperienced and unproven players on the field? Chris Harris was unproven at one time wasn’t he?

I have seen two teams in the last five or six years have great success letting over-priced/older players go. The Patriots let Asante Samuel walk and he was widely considered one of the best going at CB, both when they let him go and now. The Steelers have also had success letting high-quality veteran players go, either through trades or free agency. I mean, was James Harrison a household (in football of course) name before he won DPOY and MVP of the Super Bowl? I could have told you he played for the Steelers but that he was a very average player….before Pittsburgh moved guys/let them go so he could get some PT, that is.

Point is, we need to be more moderate when discussing our concerns with a product that we haven’t even seen on the field yet. Who knows….maybe the Panthers FO still have their eyes on some vets who haven’t gotten the call yet, to fill these “voids” some of our less optimistic bloggers refer to. Would be a really good reason for saving something for a rainy day.

by The Kackalack Kid on May 5, 2010 7:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Your examples prove my point!

The Patriots and Steelers have had great success doing that because they only do it with a couple guys, and those guys are surrounded by veteran leadership and experience. We are doing it with our entire D-Line… that is a completely different animal.

Great minds talk about ideas, small minds talk about people" - Eleanor Roosevelt

by ElBacano on May 5, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gamble is a veteran in the secondary

Along with Beason and TD in the linebacking corps. Brayton is a vet on the D-line. Go look at my post above, we’re not having as much turnover on the defensive side of the ball as you keep stating.

Good bye #43. Good luck in Chicago.

by Flowing Willow on May 6, 2010 4:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

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