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The case for Hurney and Fox

John Fox and Marty Hurney have endured a lot of criticism since they were brought in after the 2001 season that saw the team endure an embarrassing 1-15 record, and a lot of the negative attitude from fans and analysts alike really has no foundation at all. I would like to make the case as to why we should keep Hurney and Fox around for the future, based on the positive contributions they have made to the team through the draft (Hurney) and on the sideline (Fox).

More on this after the jump...

Star-divide

It has been said about Hurney and Fox that they don't make enough noise during free agency, and they don't look out for the best interest of the team by their decisions to not offer huge contracts to big-name players.  What most people fail to realize about Fox and Hurney, however, is the fact that they do look out for the best interest of the team. They build the team through the draft and player development, and continually put out a product on the field that is among the league's best, regardless of what the win-loss record may indicate. If you go back and look at the team's draft history since 2002, you will notice a lot of quality names that stand out. Guys like Julius Peppers, Jordan Gross, Thomas Davis, DeAngelo Williams, Jon Beason, Ryan Kalil, and Jonathan Stewart were all drafted by Hurney and Fox. I'm sure I don't need to elaborate on how vital these guys are (or have been, in Peppers' case) to the team - but as you can see, Hurney and Fox know how to draft the right players to fit the team's needs.

It can be argued (and has been argued ad nauseum) that Fox and Hurney don't deserve to be in Carolina anymore, and the most frequent reasoning is the fact that the franchise has yet to put together back-to-back winning seasons in its first 15 years of existence. But, that shouldn't be the ultimate gauge of success, because during the course of a football season many factors come in to play that determine a team's final record, and sometimes teams just cannot control the adversity they face. A perfect example of this is the 2004 season, which on paper is a 7-9 record sandwiched between two 11-5 records, but as most fans know is the season that the Panthers were totally decimated by injuries. (Steve Smith broke his leg during the first game, the top four RBs on the depth chart went down, Kris Jenkins went on IR with shoulder problems, and a total of 14 players were on the IR list at season's end. Given the fact that the team got off to a 1-7 start, it should be applauded that the team finished 7-9 and barely missed out on a playoff berth.)

When I look at the team's history since 2002, I don't see a team that can't put together back-to-back winning seasons. I see a team that hasn't had a 10+ loss season (one of only four in the league who haven't), I see a team that has won 71 games, I see a team that has made 3 playoff appearances (with 1 Super Bowl appearance), and I see a team that hasn't quit on its coach. John Fox may be coy with the media and may come across as a guy who doesn't have a clue sometimes, but the man has all the confidence and belief from the 53 men in the locker room every single week, and that's something that not many coaches can truly say.

The Panthers may have ended up 8-8 and missed the playoffs last season, but what most people don't see is that the team was dealing with a starting QB that had lost his mojo and several key injuries  (Kemoeatu, Davis, & Gross, just to name a few) , all while trying to adjust to a new defensive scheme and coordinator on the fly. But Fox didn't lose the team and the locker room. The team found out towards the end of the season that they didn't have any chance to make the playoffs, and instead of cruising to the finish line like most teams do, they came out and made a statement by going 4-1 in their last 5 games, winning their final 3 in a row.

I'm not a gambling man, but if I were I would place a sure bet that the Panthers will be back in 2010. Based on the prior 8 years since Fox and Hurney took over this franchise, with the worst seasons being 7-9 records, I have no reason to doubt their judgment when they decided to let Delhomme go in favor of Moore, and I have no doubt that they knew what they're doing by letting Peppers walk with no compensation. I know that money had something to do with those choices, but I'm not convinced that they were strictly financial decisions (especially Delhomme). Besides, a lot of people thought Fox was crazy for putting in an unknown guy from Louisiana at quarterback in the first game of the 2003 season, but he did it anyway, and the result was a trip to the Super Bowl and a near-miss Lombardi trophy - so I think I will trust him when he puts Moore in for the start of the 2010 season, and expect the team to rally behind their new quarterback and put together a serious run for the playoffs.

Based on the way this team has played since the 2002 season, I just can't see any real reason that Fox and Hurney should not keep their jobs. We have one of the best organizations in the NFL, and it is because of the leadership at the top, from Richardson down to the coaching staff, that this is the case. It would be foolish to get rid of Fox and Hurney at this point because they have always bounced back from adversity before, so why wouldn't they do it this time? I stated earlier that the one of the biggest complaints from many fans and "experts" is that the Panthers have never had back-to-back winning seasons. But, since 2002, they've never had back-to-back losing seasons either - and that is due to the consistent leadership and player development from Hurney and Fox.

Why on earth would we ever want to get rid of that?

Poll
Should the Panthers keep Hurney and Fox, provided they want to stay in Carolina?
Yes, they are vital to the team's success.
283 votes
Eh, only if there are no better options available.
79 votes
No, bring on Bill Cowher in 2011.
119 votes

481 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 18 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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lets just see how this season pans out

that’s how JR is probably making the decision…. maybe fox goes tom coughlin this year for his job

by vitzeng on Apr 10, 2010 2:51 PM EDT reply actions  

But...

they aren’t doing their job if they don’t take us to the superbowl every year! Fire them!

Honestly though.. stick with what’s been working pretty damn well or gut the whole crew and risk an unproven setting? Every other year winning is a whole hell of a lot better than having to wait through a 2 or 3 year slump of losing. It blows my mind that teams like the Lions, who have real problems, still have a fan base when we have fans that jump ship when we dont win super bowls ever season. These people just assume we pull the chin into charlotte and we’re automatically going to be contenders. Until Fox and Hurney put together back to back LOSING seasons than I’m standing by them.

by EyeSack on Apr 10, 2010 3:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Fox and Hurney are as good as they come!

They have made me say wtf are y’all doin more than a few times. Later my foot went into my mouth more than a few times. THEY have not let me down. Some players have. Davidson has. Fox is stubborn or too nice, however you want to look at it but he has let some people get away with too much. And that’s not a bad thing to be loyal to your guys…only when its not working.

But we have on major problem removed (#17). Now we really get to see what Furney is made of. With proven guys, veterans gone. Furneys young crop of draft and developed talent get to step up to the plate. And I have faith in these fellas. All of them. 12 and daagum 4 on the way to the “championship”!…..and that is worst case scenario for me….I’m expecting 19-0! GO PANTHERS!!!!

Richardson you better not screw this up for me!

by STEVEN 785 on Apr 10, 2010 4:08 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I have faith in Fox and Hurney- but I have more faith in Jerry Richardson

If there’s one thing JR has proved over the years it’s that he wont sacrifice the long term success of the organization to pander to the fans and their fleeting desires.

I agree that too often Fox and/or Hurney are dragged over the coals because ESPN has taught most football fans to blame the coaching staff and GM when things aren’t going to plan. The Panthers have been a model for long term consistency since John Fox’s arrival- they have one of the best W/L records during that time and and in the bottom percentiles of teams with multiple losing seasons.

Ultimately we’re blessed for having an owner who has such an intimate knowledge of the NFL, both as a player and as an active owner. With Richardson it’s not a case of ‘the team is broken and I don’t know how to fix it’ it’s more an issue of him identifying what the problems with the franchise are and rectifying them. I believe the Panthers are in for a big 2010 campaign, but if it does go poorly and Richardson decides to fire Fox and/or Hurney I have faith that he has the knowledge to identify that they were the problem.

In summarion, I <3 Fox and Hurney but if they go I’ll live.

P.S No to Cowher

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on Apr 10, 2010 4:55 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

They seem to be a good team

they hit on their draft picks more often than they miss. The down years are never very down and the team competes every season. I’m expecting this team to compete again this year

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Apr 10, 2010 6:10 PM EDT reply actions  

I am a transplant from Seattle, and this is my first post here

I have many friends in the Charlotte area now that want Fox and Hurney out. I am flabergasted by this. Fox, if he leaves, will be the hottest coach on the market. Perhaps even more sought after than Cowher. I cannot for the life of me get why people don’t like Fox. He is consistent, and has made the Panther’s a team no one wants to play, year in and year out.

Had Fox been available last this year, I firmly believe Seattle would have tried to hire him. And for crazy money. See, Panther’s football is like Pittsburgh football. Owners love Pittsburgh’s model.

Of course, you could just try and emulate the Redskins instead! Go fancy! Yeah! Or, Carolina could hire a recently fired (in the future) Chan Gailey… Save lots of money! Or Carolina could hire Jo Pa! Or Butch Davis! Wahoo! Fox sucks compared to all those dudes.

Carolina will only know what it has today once it is gone. I live here, so this is hard to say… you reap what you sow. And if you let Fox leave, Carolina will most likely suck for many, many years.

Good luck, Charlotte.

It is what it is...

by kidder95 on Apr 10, 2010 7:33 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Thanks for the input...

I agree with you that guys like Fox are hard to find in the NFL. These days though, more and more people only care about wins and Super Bowls – they don’t care about other values such as consistency, heart, and respect; which are some of Fox’s best qualities.

If the Panthers let Fox get away (assuming he wants to stay here) it will be a mistake. Until he leads this team to several losing seasons in a row, Big Cat has no reason to replace him. And until he is replaced, he deserves the support of the fans – he’s earned it.

As long as the Panthers don't trade for Michael Vick or draft Tim Tebow, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.

My Panthers Blog | My Twitter Page

by BW Smith on Apr 10, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm counting on the relationship between JR and Fox to weigh in

Hurney has essentially said he will remain in Carolina as long at JR wants him. That’s how you avoid the distraction of being courted by other teams in the media. I have a hard time JR will skimp on cost when it comes to the HC. Fox is JR’s kind of coach to this day. I’m fairly convinced the issue remains the lack of a CBA. I hope JR doesn’t let the contract issue become a distraction.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Apr 11, 2010 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you

I really appreciate the post and couldn’t agree more.

by adamwanderer on Apr 10, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Welcome to the blog kidder95

It’s obvious to me that Fox needs to be retained. But rather than being simply a ‘run first’ team the Panthers should strive for a ‘good running team’ but in reality stat-wise be balanced. The Panthers need more options with the passing game for when the defense is able to limit the run.

I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com

by Jaxon on Apr 11, 2010 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Once again everyone’s looking at things through rose colored glasses. Fox and Hurney are consistent….consistently mediocre. Who cares if they don’t lose enough games to finish in the bottom percentage, the point is, they still lose and fail to make the playoffs every other year regardless of how many losses.

Injuries should not be used as an excuse for losing, great teams over come injuries and hold everyone accountable. Fox’s stubborness is what caused them again to miss the playoffs last year. I don’t understand how everyone thinks Fox and Hurney are so good, they are terrible at evaluating talent, sure they may pull a J Stew out the blue once in awhile but theres also the Jarrett’s, the Leflors, the Colberts, the Sheltons, the McClovers, the Robinsons, etc.

"It's a bad day to have a bad day" - Coach John Fox of the Carolina Panthers

by D.W.G. on Apr 11, 2010 7:18 AM EDT reply actions  

"Pull a J-Stew out of the blue once in a while"

The Carolina Panthers have the highest percentage of 1st round picks who became Pro Bowlers in the NFL over the last 8 years.

Furthermore, I have never heard Fox, Hurney or anyone in the organization use injuries as the excuse for a down season.

Ask fans of the Cleveland Browns if they think a Superbowl appearance, an NFC championship appearance and a playoff appearance in 8 years is ‘consistently mediocre’.

The problem with your arguments D.W.G is you are like a snark sniper- you come in, make one comment like this then refuse to ever counterpoint when someone rebuts you.

You reference Jarrett, LeFors, Cobert and Shelton
I reference Williams, Stewart, Kalil, Beason, Davis, Gamble, Wharton, Gross

Whose group was a better indicator of success v. failure.

Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com

by James Dator on Apr 11, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dang dude!

Top five in wins since realignment is mediocre? You must have some high standards, heck even the Patriots standards aren’t that high.

Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.

120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good

89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad

Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless

by Flowing Willow on Apr 12, 2010 3:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fox and Hurney are like McNabb

He was consistent and a winner in Philly, but never won the big game. Now that he’s gone, does everyone feel the Eagles are better? Your opinion of the Eagles chances right now probably mirrors your feelings about Fox and Hurney.

If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.

-The Vandals

by Oi2dwrld on Apr 11, 2010 9:22 AM EDT reply actions  

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