Brad Hoover is the next to be cut...
"@ChrisHarrisNFL: Well we just had another because your 30 casualty on the panthers roster. Brad Hoover you will be missed my man."
wow. thats all i have to say.
4 months ago
JC_GSO
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next tweet by Chris:
“Makes me think? What is our number 1 priority this season. I know what mines is.”
I’m starting to get a little concerned…
Kasey may be next!
Looks like Sutton and Fiammetta (sp) will now have the responsibility of opening the way for the running backs.
I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it.
Ouch... that sucks. I love Hoover
Hardest working, least appreciated FB in the league.
Team must have alot of faith in Fiametta.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 12:44 PM EST reply actions
I hope our players aren't losing the faith.
Chris Harris went from telling us to trust the front office’s moves to this:
Makes me think? What is our number 1 priority this season. I know what mines is.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 12:46 PM EST reply actions
And the next?
“If I state my opinion I might be the next on the long list of released players.”
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
You think maybe Pep knew what he was doing by getting out of here?
After a lockout in 2011 (which is really what all these cuts are about), by the time we’ve rebuilt, Pep will be about 4 years older.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Mar 8, 2010 2:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And by the time Chicago gets out from under his horrible deal and gets to rebuild he’ll be retired.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
Right, around 2013
When we might be good again
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
We wont know until the season starts.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know James.
At first you thought that they’re making tough decisions. Slowly but surely, I’m beginning to wonder if their decisions are simply based on age more than anything.
Sure we’ll be a younger team, but at what cost? Hoover was the best runblocking FB that I know, one of the last of his kind. I hope that Tony is ready to take over.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Everyone who has been cut had a player at their position behind them who was younger, who was brought in to fill their shoes.
Are the transitions happening alot faster than we all thought? Absolutely.
I don’t believe this is merely a dump to get younger without any concern for the next season. Hurney and Fox need to prove themselves in 2010, you don’t do that by putting a product on the field that you think might lead to your demise.
It’s not JR’s style to tinker with the roster moves, though he may be giving Hurney a rubrict to follow. I think the Panthers are using the opportunity to give all of their young guys a chance at once.
It’s a risky move, but if they pull it off it’s genius.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
rubric?
I’m recommending your post because it made me learn a new word today. Rubric, meaning “a word or section of text which is written or printed in red ink to highlight it.” Thanks James!
ha ha ha... thank you
Pity I used the British English spelling though!
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
But it's not genius!
I can see why they’re making the cut, that I understand. But when you get on the other side, what the hell?
Too much is being changed at once. I’m a young guy and I like my Panthers. I don’t like change. In only a week we’ve seen Jake Delhomme get cut, 5 significant members of our defensive and offensive lines hit the trail, a solid veteran in Moose has quietly hit free agency and they aren’t making any moves to resign him, and now they’re cutting the Hoov?
What’s wrong with the Hoov? He didn’t do anything wrong! A good fullback with under a million in base salary is pretty much chump change in the NFL. It’s not like we’re looking to sign any new players with the Panthers dragging their ass around FA like this, and Tony Fiametta hasn’t proved himself last time he was asked to replace the Hoov.
Why now? Why couldn’t a cut like this wait until training camp after you’ve seen what Sutton and Tony can bring to the table? They could both catch fall-on-your-faceitus and be out for the season and then look who would be laughing!
My point is this. All of these cuts are alright, but we’ve got to start making moves. Will Witherspoon is still out there and he’d be a good replacement for Na’il Diggs. Antonio Bryant and TO are still out there. Kevin Curtis will probably be cut before June, and he’s a pretty decent receiver. Especially at the WR position, we have to make some moves in FA. We can’t put all of our apples in one basket and go all-in at the NFL Draft, we simply don’t have enough draft picks. Plus the Super Bowl was never won by rookies.
If we continue to go down this road, and I apologize in advance for saying this. But if we continue down this road, it looks more and more like Jerry Richardson jumping on a grenade in order to get this new CBA deal done with the Players Union.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
it looks more and more like Jerry Richardson jumping on a grenade in order to get this new CBA deal done with the Players Union.
That’s your key statement right there Rev.
By Darin Gantt’s admission on Primetime with the Packman he said that Richardson strikes him as a guy who will take a hit on the short term performance of the Panthers for the betterment of the league; he’s principaled like that.
This offseason is going to be like 95% of Panthers offseasons. We’ll wait the entire time for the Panthers to pull the trigger on any signings and watch as they make some value pickups at the 11th hour for depth and little more. The Panthers very, very rarely pull the trigger during free agency and wheel and deal during the draft.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
I hope so James.
I have a bad feeling about this off-season though right in the pit of my gut. It started when we released Brad Hoover. I’d just like to see the Panthers run out and make one good signing to improve one position. That’s it. Anything to improve the morale of the team right now. Cutting all of these leaders in the locker room all at once like this, I’ll bet it isn’t sitting pretty with the players right now. They aren’t blind. They see what’s going on. Especially Hoover, that cut just rips my heart out.
They need to do something, even if just to prove to the fans that they aren’t completely laying down for 2010. We have a championship caliber team on our hands, and we choose NOW to start rebuilding?
Double u teh eff mate? What are my Panthers doing?
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
What of a players' strike?
I don’t recall why we all ruled that out, but perhaps JR is expecting a strike-shortened season and sees no need to keep contracts on players that won’t be around come 2012?
That is a very possible scenario
I’m still banking on the other end of the spectrum (maybe hoping against hope). Which is that JR has the inside track on the negotiations and wants to lower the Panthers cap number to the basement when he has the opportunity when the cap comes back.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
That's what I was suggesting on the other thread, earlier today.
Hoover was immensely productive, and vital to the success of our running game. I don’t get it.
It has to be all business
and we won’t get to the bottom of it until JR is ready for us to know why he is doing it.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
It woul dbe nice to hear something from Hurney or JR
that we aren’t jettisoning our hopes for the 2010 season just to reduce exposure from a potential lock out. But it sure appears that way. No other reason when your dumping some of your lowest paid players just because you can.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
We haven't even resigned Moose yet.
This off-season seems like an open eyed nightmare.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
This sucks...
Who’s next? Sir Purr?
Draft Gilyard!
by bwsmith25 on Mar 8, 2010 1:17 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Hugo back in the day rocked
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Yeah Hugo was awesome
Then they gave him the orange hair and made him all fuzzy. Charlotte does seem to create some questionable mascots.
If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
Don't tell Richardson
Fox and Hurney are over 30 too.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Mar 9, 2010 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
I have to admit, this was a funny tweet.
“@Darin Gantt We’re checking for confirmation as to whether that’s allowed. RT @solorca I’m turning 30 this year…I hope I’m still allowed to be a fan!
by LittleKing on Mar 8, 2010 1:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Oh I'm in trouble...
I turn 31 in a few weeks. Better start packing my bags for fandom of another team.
by The Duke Dude on Mar 8, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Rebuilding?
I hope not, this trend also scares me. I think we have STRONG team minus one component that we found in the last half of the season(Moore). Hoov was huge for our running game and I am not 100%(yet) that Fiametta can play at the same level.
I guess we're going to all find out together.
I think this one shouldn’t have been done though – Hoov is too important, IMO
Draft Gilyard!
None of these backups can play at the same level
Let’s get realistic folks. Best case scenario… When other teams suffer after the 2011 lockout, with too many possible contracts, we’ll have a strong nucleus of young talent.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Mar 8, 2010 2:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I am tired or this senseless cuts
We all know Fiammetta is not ready and Sutton is not durable enough to be a FB. I am tired of this senseless cuts, D. Lew now Hoover. We fans need to revolt against this. Hoover came back from an ankle and rib injury so don’t tell me he had injury problems. D. Williams had an ankle and didin’t basically play in the last 4-5 games. Hoover was blocking which is harder to do considering you have to plant your foot on the ground and stuff, i play soccer so i know what an ankle injury feels like. I don’t care if they are cleaning the house or not, but they shouldn’t have cut him. This was his last year on his contract, why don’t u let him play it out. I am furious about this and they are taking all the people that make the Panthers, the Carolina Panthers. WE ALL KNOW NOBODY ON OUR ROSTER CAN BLOCK LIKE HOOVER. Just look at the stats of when he was out and what happened to our running game. I wouldn’t be surprised if they trade D. Williams. This is not going young, this is becoming absurd.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 8, 2010 1:28 PM EST reply actions
Just to play Devil's Advocate
I think we need to trust in the front office to make the right decisions for the future of the franchise.
It seemed senseless when the Panthers passed on Brady Quinn to take Jon Beason
It seemed senseless when the Panthers selected Jonathan Stewart when they already had a 1,000 yard back
What may seem senseless to the fans ultimately seems to make a lot of sense in the long run.
I love Brad Hoover, I loved screaming ‘HOOOOOV’ at BoA, but ultimately Fiametta is a guy who they really like at the position who I think they believe is ready.
The running game didn’t suffer at all in 2009 without Hoover. He was out weeks 7, 9, 10, and 11. The Panthers running game in the games Hoover missed averaged 167.75 yards, which was actually above the season averages.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
comeon James which game were u watching
Did you watch the game against the Cowboys and the Jets? he was out and you see what happened.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 8, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
I did miss the Cowboys game, that takes the average down to 151, still above our season average.
However, Hoover played for over one half of the Jets game, though he didn’t start.
We have a 5 game sample for the Panthers running game without Hoover taking a snap, and the result isn’t nearly as bad as you made it appear in your original post.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
how the heck did u miss the game anyways?
by panthertillidrop on Mar 8, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
I watched the game, I just missed it when I was tabulating the rushing figures.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Ok
But you know it’s going to hard to replace Hoover. Maybe they plan on using King as a FB and use Barnidge in his Position and put Rosario as a slot receiver. What do you think about that?
by panthertillidrop on Mar 8, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
They drafted Tony Fiametta for a reason. Tyrell Sutton also showed he could play FB in a pinch.
by SlayerGhaleon on Mar 8, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Sutton is not Durable enough to play FB.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 8, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
i don’t have the stats to back it up, but i remember the first time he played FB against the Saints, the landed on Injury Report that week, and he was on the for most of the remaining of the season (Can’t get to the Panthers Injury Report page right now cos my computer at work wouldn’t work right). I would show it to you when i get home. He’s not durable enough for it, but he’s a good running back.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 8, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Granted he only took 37 snaps at FB (36 in week 9, 1 in week 10 when Fiametta returned from injury), he continued to take snaps at HB through week 15. He may have shown up on the Injury list but he didn’t miss any time out of it (which is more than we can say for Williams, Hoover, Fiametta, and a good portion of the rest of our team).
Anyways, I’m not disagreeing with you, was just wondering what made you feel that way being he never missed any action.
I am just saying his body is not built for that kind of powding
and quickness to the Linebackers. It’s just like saying Darren Sproles can be an every down back. His body would wear down quickly. I am not saying he can’t do it, but we shouldn’t use him for it. Also he can be a great blocking RB to pick up blitzes and stuff. Cos that makes more sense to me than using him as a FB.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 8, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with what you're saying..
And I’d much rather use Fiametta than Sutton but to be fair to both sides of story, they said Smith was too small to be a wide receiver. To be clear, I’m certainly not lobbying for Sutton to be switched to FB, by any means, I’d definitely rather use him at RB, as you mentioned, and perhaps 3rd string FB, in case of an emergency, like last year.
ROSARIO
dante rosario played FB and TE in college. There may be sets where he’s in the backfield. maybe.
He can really block well
maybe they are going to select Toby Gerhart. maybe and i hope so.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 8, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Fiametta is no slouch
Far and away rated as the #1 FB last year, and hailed as one of the best blocking FBs to come out in the last decade.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
I ate humble pie by saying I didn’t think Matt Moore was ready.
I’m just choosing to have faith in our front office and coaching staff.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Then let Fiametta beat him out in camp!
Hoover doesn’t seem like the kind of guy that would cry about PT if he knew the other guy beat him fair and square. And being the one of the best blocking college players to come out in the past decade isn’t really saying much nowadays.
It’s not solely about talent, it’s primarily about money, the secondarily that they have faith in their young guys
You can use the same argument of ‘let him beat him in camp’ for Delhomme, Lewis, Kemo, Diggs, Johnson, Lloyd etc.
Furthermore, cutting Hoover now is more fair to him. Now he has a chance to find another team via free agency whereas his options would be limited when camp starts.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
i don't think it's about money
the difference in their salary is probably 600K (at most). It’s not even upto 1M. So i don’t think it’s because of the money. Also this was his last contract year, let him play it out. Fiammetta is a Fourth round pick and his salary is within the 500k plus range.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 8, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Take it for what it is, but Gantt thinks it’s all about the money:
Hoover was due a $100k roster bonus and a $860k base salary this year. Too close to a million for hang around.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Tony signed a 4 year 2.08M contract as a rookie
That’s only about a 400k difference. If i had the money, i would pay that for consistency. I don’t believe it’s about money,and i don’t care if it’s Gantt that said it i don’t believe it’s about money.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 8, 2010 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
You’re paying two guys, or you’re paying one guy… both play a position where you only carry one into the season.
You’re making it an either, or proposition. This isn’t about what Fiametta is making because they’re not going to cut the future at the position.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry for the double post
Furthermore, if it’s not about the money then the only other explanation is that they flat our believe that Fiametta is better than Hoover.
I don’t believe this was a move motivated by talent alone.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
and i don't think it was motivated by money either
by panthertillidrop on Mar 8, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
It's a combination of the two...
They feel that Hoover is not THAT much better than Fiametta to warrant keeping both of them on the roster. It’s as simple as that.
Draft Gilyard!
did you just say that or it's a typo.
Hoover is way beyound and better than Fiammetta. have you see andbody on the post saying they are of the same skill set? the only problem with Hoover was pass catching. The rest, he’s astounding. Don’t says stuffs like that cos it would take Fiammetta at least 2-3 years to get to the level Hoover is on.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 8, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
What do you think the reason is?
If it’s not about money, and it’s not about talent… then why did the Panthers cut him?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't say I felt that way, or CSR feels that way
I said the front office feels that way. And it’s not a typo. Apparently they feel that Fiametta is better than we think he is, otherwise they wouldn’t have cut Hoover – it’s a financial decision and a talent decision. If they thought Hoover was that great, he wouldn’t have been cut.
Draft Gilyard!
You see Chris Harris was surprised...
Because he knows there is something going on and i don’t think concering Hoover case it’s about the money. Anybody who can see, can tell you Tony is not ready. i don’t care if he’s the best back to come out in the last dacade. They could have kept him for his final contract. I didn’t complain about, Na’il Diggs, Landon Johnson (he sucks period), Maake, and Jake (he should have been a backup and he’s a great guy all around). I only briefly complained about D. Lew cos he’s a great players and always play hard every down not like Peppers, but i understand the move as we have about 2-3 guys that can play his spot. Hoover was uncalled for, heck they should cut stve Smith they if it’s about the money. he’s going to be 31 come training camp and he’s due over or about 8 million this season.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 8, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
the whole “more fair to cut him now so he has to chance to find another team” is GM speak to soothe the frustration or disappointment. Hoover did absolutely nothing last year to play himself out of a job. Your whole argument goes out the window if Fiametta gets injured. (GOD FORBID!, knock on wood!) I shouldn’t even have said it at all.
And that...
warrants more respect from me than for someone that pretends to know everything. I too am for the wait and see approach rather than the sky is falling mentality.
I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it.
+1
But if they even think about cutting Smith……….
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Mar 9, 2010 1:30 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think we have to worry about that.
I don’t think anyone in the FO would be brave enough to tell Smitty that he’s cut.
I hear ya...
I’m not questioning the draft picks, I think our team is one of the best at drafting players. I’m worried that these cuts will put players in that arn’t ready to be starters. Cutting Meshawn when we drafted Dwayne Jarret always comes to mind. I also thought we had some great momentum at the end of last year and I hope all the cuts wont mess up the chemistry too bad.
Jeez.
Hate to see Hoov go. All the best, big guy.
No not...
HOOOOOOOVVVVE!!!
OK, this is crazy, but it is a gamble that I hope works out.
If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
inevitable
With Fiammetta being drafted and Hoov’s injuries catching up, another of my favourite players gone
wtf!!
lets just go ahead and trade d-will, j-stew, smitty, beason, and see how many draft picks we can get so we can go ahead and forfeit all 2010 season games then save all our money during the lockout and get ready for a fresh start in 2012!!
Come on guys...
It’s March. A lot can happen between now and the beginning of the regular season. This rebuilding talk is premature.
"I could never be a thug, they don't dress this well." - Malice
We have reached the point where it is impossible
To fill all the players we’ve lost, with proven talent. And this is not just rebuilding, it’s saving for a 2011 lockout. Our next opportunity is prob 2012 at earliest.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Mar 8, 2010 1:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i agree with you julius
we still have a very talented roster
by carolinabrave89 on Mar 8, 2010 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
with this cuts
we are not going to make the superbowl. We rebuilding, New England was doing this last year. This is a 3-4 year plan. We might make it in 2 years. No wonder Peppers left.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 8, 2010 1:54 PM EST reply actions
I know some of you think I only babble out negativities
But I’ve been trying to tell you! 2010 is about sacrificing a season, in order to clear the books, save up for a lockout year, and build from the ground up once the storm is over.
This is a business peoples. In 2010 we will be playing with very few guys who are over 30, or make over a million… Were down to 7 now I think.
Buckle down things could get ugly, but in the long term we’ll probably be better off.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Mar 8, 2010 1:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions
See, the reason that I don’t buy the ‘sacrificing a season’ theory is that it’s asking Hurney and Fox to put their necks on the chopping block. We’re not hearing about any front office friction, just about the cuts being made.
You know as well as I do ST that a truly bad season by the Panthers definitely means Fox is gone, and likely means Hurney is close to follow.
The irony of this situation is all the Panthers are doing is exactly what the majority of fans wanted, no longer living in the past and getting younger. Now that it’s happening everyone is freaking out (not just on this blog, I’m not trying to characterize this community).
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
What he said.
It’s hilarious, actually. A lot of people were calling for the canning of both Landon Johnson and Nail Diggs. Now that the team has obliged these same people are reacting negatively.
by SlayerGhaleon on Mar 8, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Fox is proof we are sacrificing a season
JR showed no faith in him by not extending his contract. And now that move makes sense too. After this season, JR will not be on the line for anything… even the head coach. I think JR being on the inner circle of the NFL, has a clue what’s coming in 2011… and it aint pretty. You know he is not cheap, and wouldn’t do this under normal circumstances… He has always been about winning now, no matter the cost.
I think this is a sign that the entire league is getting ready to get an overhaul, and he’s going to be prepared… even at the sake of 2010.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
If these moves are coming from the top (JR), then Fox and Hurney have no choice but to follow orders.
Maybe that’s why they were in tears and all emotional.
Interesting move...
I love Hoover. But then I love all big hitting, pile driving FBs. Something interesting things could happen from this. Heck, you could sign another good run-blocking TE and put him in the backfield lined up as a FB. I liked Hoov…but it’s not the end of the world letting him go.
Oh he's safe...
…you can’t cut the Rules and Regulations. Then there would be no standard to play by!
by The Duke Dude on Mar 8, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Can't cut him, but...
…trade? I hope not, but nothing would surprise me now.
Smitty doesn’t have a young guy who they are confident could carry the torch. Consider him safe.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Depends on how much they like Jarret and Moore.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Mar 9, 2010 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
The real question is
How valuable will Steve be in 2-3 years, after the lockout and rebuilding. Unlike the other cuts, I think he’ll still be very valuable.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
How much do you allow sentiment to factor into decisions?
Hoov and Moose are two where I think they deserved to be allowed to stay through training camp.
Maybe the FO felt the vets should be given a chance get on with another team?
It will be hard to cheer, when you don’t know who is on the field….
Why cut Hoover?
I don’t get it. There certain players I feel you just don’t cut. Especially a local favorite. I understand letting Pep walk to some extent because of money he commanded. But you’re suppose to let Hoover blast LB’s until 1) you see he can’t do it anymore or 2) he doesn’t want to do it anymore. Its not like we drafted Fiametta in the 1st or 2nd round. Letting #90 get away stung, but losing Brad Hoover really hurts! We’ve lost alot leadership the past few days. Here’s hoping all this “young talent” can lead us back to the playoffs! (soon)
Oh, by the way, I think Hurney and Fox know more about their job security then they are letting on. There is no way they would be making these kind of changes without some sort of security. They just let the whole starting d-line, “starting QB”, and in my opinion the glue of the running game walk out the door with no compensation.
A FB over 30
That’s pretty much why they cut him. The career length of a FB is usually short, due to the aggressive blocking they must do. You saw it last year with all of the injuries Hoover sustained. The FO probably figured if he played this season, he would miss a lot more time.
He has no Injury concerns
He broke his ribs frist, came back in two weeks or so, and then his ankle and came back 2-4 weeks after. D. Williams had problems with his ankle and practically didn’t play the last 5 games. Fiammetta, had a concussion and was out almost 3 games and he’s just a rookie. So stop talking about FBs over 30. Ovie Mugheli is still playing, Lorenzo Neal is still blocking very good. That adage only affect RBs not FBs.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 8, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
scrantsj is right
you guys mention all these other fullbacks, but out of 32 teams, you’ve only named a handful…and the ones you named are high quality FBs. They are the exception, not the rule.
so are you saying Hoover is not a high quality FB?
by panthertillidrop on Mar 8, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
not at all
Hoov was awesome, and i wish we kept him. i’m just saying that FBs do wear out quickly. Most teams don’t have FBs to rotate like we have D-Will and J-Stew. Hoov was on the field regardless of which RB got the ball, and he did his share of pass blocking. Don’t read too deep into what I say. I mean only what I say, that the FBs mentioned are the exception, not the rule, when it comes to FBs.
dont agree
We only can name a handful becuase only a handful of teams still use a pure run blocking FB. Most teams don’t even line up like that anymore. How many teams can you name that line up in I-formation with a FB more that 5 plays a game?
I'm confused by your statement..
Are you saying teams aren’t even using a FB or simply aren’t using a FB to block for the run? Based off of these snap counts, it’d be hard for me to believe that only 80 of those snaps were for support in run blocking, regardless of the formation.
WTF!
Wow! That’s all I can say. Hoov will be missed, big time. I don’t expect many struggles to come of it (as James pointed out above) but, regardless, Hoover is just one of those guys you expect to be around forever (despite that being impossible).
You will be missed, Hoov. Best of luck wherever you go.
i like it
I like all the roster cuts. I would’ve liked to see Hoov in Carolina until he retires, but all of the talk about him not being ready was also applied to Moore. He didn’t get it done in preseason. I think we are still poised for a superbowl run, and you can’t tell me cutting Hoov is the sole difference in a SB run, or a rebuilding year. Fiametta is younger and faster, and maybe can get some goal line carries, or catch the ball in the flat. Before last season, there were articles about Hoov losing a step and getting older. That’s why we drafted Fiametta. Who else has been cut that will cost us wins by their absence? Lewis was productive, but let’s not act like he was all that. Kemo didn’t even play. Most people on this blog have been calling for Diggs to be benched for a couple years, and Johnson wasn’t as good as Diggs. If Anderson and Connor can outplay those two, then why keep them? Jake had to go, too. I wish we kept Hoov, and I’m not sure what’s going on with Moose, but you can’t tell me we’ve lost the core of our team, and we’re gonna go into the cellar next season. We still have our entire OL, Moore, Smitty, D-Will, Stewart, all 3 TEs, Johnson, Brown, Thomas, (about 8 other DTs, or more), Davis, Beason, Connor, Anderson, Gamble, Marshall, Harris, Munnerlyn, Godfrey, etc. I think we’ll be fine. Hoov will be missed. I agree with everyone saying we should’ve kept him, but I just don’t think cutting him was that great a mistake. Bring on 2010. Let’s go into the 2011 lock-out as world champions.
Mind you
We don’t have all those Linebackers yet, they are restricted free agents. A crazy team might decide to give us a frist and third, a second for marshall, a third for James Anderson. So we don’t need to celebrate yet until they are under contract.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 8, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
i agree with you though usana_gaines
the core of our team was already very young…we are still a top 10 team when you look at it by just talent
by carolinabrave89 on Mar 8, 2010 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
You sir are a loyal fan
Only a Panther hopeful can goes as far as to call us a top 10 team right after we cut a third of our starters.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I am officially rocked!
I cannot believe all these guys we’re letting go. Richardson knows something…
Still, I cannot help but think we’re going to get burned by at least one of these releases even if we get lucky and the youngsters step up everywhere else. All it takes is a profound weakness at a key spot and you’re toast.
The running game is our meat and potatoes. I am very surprised they’re messing with that by letting Hoover go.
burned
cutting keyshawn burned us. jarrett wasn’t ready. i think if we don’t bring back Moose, then we are gonna trade up for a top receiver.
Agreed
Although Moore and Jarrett showed some nice chemistry at the end of the year. It would be great if Jarrett could turn into “The Revenge of the Moose” next year. Then we wouldn’t have to look as hard. We probably do need a decent FA possession receiver though…
Well... at least Gantt is looking on the lighter side of things:
Hoover was scheduled to be on the Panthers fan cruise last week. Might be why he wasn’t part of Friday’s purge. Walk the plank. Aaaarrrgggh.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 8, 2010 2:47 PM EST reply actions
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m depressed.:(
One of South Africa's only Carolina Panthers and fans.
by chinchillas sword on Mar 8, 2010 3:16 PM EST reply actions
I think there may be some overreaction to some of this
Like Slayer said, we’ve been asking why we don’t play some of our younger guys for years. At least we’ve questioned why Fox stubbornly sticks with veterans to the very end.
Now we are getting a chance to see what some of these younger guys can do. We can’t it both ways.
When you really break it down. What are we losing? Pep is one thing, after him, there seems to be very little drop-off…
We knew (or hoped) Jake would not be on the field in 2010. We got our wish (although he could have stayed on as a backup).
Lewis will be missed, perhaps, but he was kind of a fish outta water in Meeks’ system. He was almost adequate at rushing the passer from the tackle position, but we needed an upgrade there, hopefully getting younger, quicker, and faster (we still need to find this upgrade IMO).
Kemo doesn’t really count because we aren’t sure he would even be back from such a devastating injury.
Diggs was slowly losing snaps, and I believe that Connor and Anderson can fill that spot with no drop-off. In fact, with their speed, they should be an upgrade.
Johnson never met the expectations we all had when he was signed. He is not great on special teams, so this move was just a numbers game. We lose very little or nothing with his departure.
This brings us to Hoover. I’m not sure I agree with this move. While we have Fiametta, he has proven to not be as good at the point of attack as ol’ Hoov. The way I look at this, we are tinkering with our strength—the running game. Let’s hope Tony can improve his blocking, because he is an instant upgrade at the FB position in terms of running and catching. We also may not be able to afford the extra roster spot that having two FBs consumed. If we are also keeping four RBs, we cannot have 6 backs on the roster every year.
So, in summation, Losing Lewis realistically, will mean very little. Veteran leadership on the D-line may have been his biggest contribution in 2010. Louis Leonard, assuming he can stay healthy, looks ready to be the starter at the nose or at under tackle. We may be looking for another starting tackle, unless either Tank Tyler/Ed Johnson/Corvey Irvin can step up. Look for us to sign or draft a guy around 280lbs that can get after the QB to pair with Charles Johnson inside on 3rd down. The only other cut that carries any weight is Hoover. As mentioned above, this could prove to hurt our run-game a little, at least early on next season. Again, aside from his on-field contributions, his leadership may have been his most valuable asset.
Let’s wait and see how the rest of free agency and the draft shakes out before we give up on the 2010 season.
Do or do not. There is no try.
by ERL on Mar 8, 2010 3:17 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Also, look for more singleback formations with Hoover gone
at least until Fiametta gets his feet wet.
Do or do not. There is no try.
by ERL on Mar 8, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Single back means
Two TE formations. Some variation of King, Rosario and/or Rosario with Smitty and WR2….or more running out of the slot-single back formation which worked well last year.
I'm worried
About experience in the coming year. I wasn’t clamoring for young players as much. I really just wanted a few. If we lose someone else I’m gonna be close to losing my fanhood.
This sig is dedicated to those cut in the 2009 purge.
by chinchillas sword on Mar 8, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
This is really the only concern for me--that these cuts have created
the experience/leadership aspect. Matt Moore will be asked to be more of a leader now that he is the guy. Beason/Davis/Harris are the heart of our defense, so I’m not too worried about that side of the ball.
But with Hoover and potentially Moose gone, the stability and veteran calm they provided will have to be found elsewhere.
Do or do not. There is no try.
by ERL on Mar 8, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
I understand from a football perspective why it was done...
But cutting Hoover hurts. I know we are getting younger and I understand that, but it’s just not going to be the same without the sweet sound of 70,000 fans in unison shouting HOOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVV!!!!
Draft Gilyard!
IF
we lose Moose, too, this could affect the running game in a big way. None of our WR’s block quite like Moose. Jarret had his moments, but is still inconsistent, and if Hoov was “injury” prone, I’m not sold on Fiammeta’s ability to stay healthy.
Yeah, there's no question
We will develop new nuances, that’s how these things work. But it is very tough to cut such a solid guy, on and off the field.
Do or do not. There is no try.
by ERL on Mar 8, 2010 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
TRUE
I suppose that’s really what makes it that much tougher…when they are FA’s and get courted by another team offering a better situation or more money, that’s one thing. But when top notch, community minded guys, who left it all on the field day in and day out, and were consumate team players and leaders are cut, that’s pretty tough.
Lockout coming and it is simply a youth movement folks ~ Still not happy about it however.
This is something that I hate to see is B. Hoover gone but honestly the guy only had about 1-2 more years left in the tank. This move also makes sense and really I am glad that I got my #45 jersey last season. I have never worn it and now I plan to keep it next to my Sam Mills and W. Walls jersey as my favorite players of all time for the Panthers organization. I love Hoover and I can understand the reasoning behind the move given his age and he was in and out of the lineup season but man I just don’t like this at all.
Hoover was really a class act and took two seperate pay cuts to stay with the Panthers over the years. He is going to be missed and I like so many understand the move and the youth movement but man this is getting hard to swallow.
I still find it diffcult to believe that we are not going to be active in free agency, I mean we have a ton of money to spend even with our own team salary’s cap that middle market teams always operate on regardless of a uncapped or capped season.
Something is brewing in Charlotte and I don’t believe we are still and worse off than we were in 09’ . Honestly however Hoover was not going to be a Panther after 2010 season anyway I just wish we could have kept him one more season and then released him after his contract was up, plus it only saves us what 400 K ???
I will miss #45 .
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Mar 8, 2010 4:05 PM EST reply actions
Judging from Jersey prices is Jarrett next?
http://shop.panthers.com/jerseys.aspx
I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it.
Actually his jersey has been on sale for a while.
If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
Great moves by the Panthers so far with cutting all the old, dead weight. Its like they are finally awakening from this blind loyalty crap. There is no need for a FB in todays game, besides, with two great backs and a solid o-line, Hoover wont be missed.
"It's a bad day to have a bad day" - Coach John Fox of the Carolina Panthers
Bodies
The factors people are describing leading to the slew of releases have some merit:
Avoiding taking the cap hits during this unique offseason.
Getting younger.
Preparing for a lower cap number whenever a new CBA gets put into effect.
Some other info that J Rich knows that we don’t.
My other thought is that we are making room for new bodies on our roster. Instead of carrying 2 Ks, 2 FBs, et al, we are making moves towards efficiency. Will this work? I’m not sure, but it will definitely give us room to provide greater depth at other positions.
We haven’t been big players in FA, so my guess is that we’ll be getting a ton of league-minimums and UDFA rookies- guys who could allow for greater maneuverability (read: could easily be axed next season when/if a new CBA comes).
by the bomb dot com on Mar 8, 2010 8:04 PM EST reply actions
Well said
Exactly my thoughts, but with only part of the negativity.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I don't like this cut
Not one little bit. Firstly, Hoover is a vastly better run blocker than Fiametta. Fiametta could be getting better, but he’s not going to be as good as Hoover. Our power I sets are going to suffer. And it’s not like the Hoov was making all that much money. He’s one of the top FB’s in the game, Fiametta might outperform him statwise because he is better at those passes in the flat which Moore likes, but Fiametta won’t match Hoov’s impact, at least for a year or two. We better hope our passing game can still hit Smith deep, because our ground game has lost a lot of explosiveness. When you get a long run, usually you have great blocking from receivers downfield, and a lead blocker who has sealed off the edge or hole. With Moose and Hoover gone, we might not see that as often.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
If it makes you feel better Willow...
read my back and forths with ST above.
When I pulled the numbers from our rushing stats when Hoover missed the game we averaged 151 yards on the ground across his 5 missed games. This was only 5 yards per game off the team’s average of 156.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 9, 2010 7:20 AM EST up reply actions
Let's just hope those 5 yards aren't on the 4 yd line on 4th and goal...
But seriously – I think we will be fine with Fiametta. Obviously the front office thinks so – we just have to put our trust in them and believe that they know what they’re doing.
Now if we go 3-13 next season, then we can complain about these moves all we want, but I say we wait until the season plays out to completely evaluate what the ownership does in the offseason.
Draft Gilyard!
That's true
but it seemed to me we weren’t quite as effective on the ground. I saw a lot more missed oppurtunities. I feel better about this cut than at the time it was announced, but I still don’t like it.
The other cuts I’m fine with.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 10, 2010 2:28 AM EST up reply actions
Welcome to the corporate world, Panthers
It’s as if George Clooney, from Up In The Air. had been hired by Richardson.
Team chemistry has been dealt a severe blow, and will have to be reformulated.
Key players on the team seem to be UITA about what’s going on.
D-Will voices a strong vote of confidence in Jake, then Jake’s gone.
D-Will and JStew are “super sad” about Brad Hoover’s release, saying he had a Pro Bowl season last year.
Chris Harris expresses (mock?) fear for his own job, after leaking the news of Hoover’s release, ahead of a formal team announcement.
Matt Moore is given the keys to the car, then has to read that the Panthers are putting out feelers about getting somebody in to compete with him.
The old ‘band of brothers’ feel to the Panthers is a thing of the past. Some repair work will have to be done, to reinstill the camaraderie that always seemed to be part of the team.
Taking it back to 2002-2003
Guys were not safe, guys never got comfortable. A new head coach (Fox) was finding his guys. There was a battle for almost all the spots—every year, and nothing was guaranteed.
Perhaps this shakeup will create a little more urgency in some guys. Looking back, some guys may have been doing little more than ‘going through the motions,’ and that apparently is not good enough anymore. (I’m not suggesting Hoover was doing this).
I’ll choose to look at it this way rather than criticizing moves about which I do not have all the facts.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Other than Hoover, I'm not against any of these moves.
I am against that one, however — he looked like he had plenty left in his tank to play out the last year of his contract. Is John Kasay next? If he is, they’ll wait a few days, to spread the tearful goodbyes out.
From the twitter reaction of Chris Harris, it’s plain the players have no idea what’s coming next, as there’s apparently been no contact from management to them.
Maybe that’s the way the business has to be run, but I just thought the Panthers were a cut above the impersonal stuff. I need to be more jaded; I’ve been somewhat naive about them.
Hope we have a good draft.
You'd like to think they are a cut above the impersonal stuff
But the NFL has been this way for decades. It become an accepted practice.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Also sound reasoning
Do or do not. There is no try.
by ERL on Mar 9, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
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