Panthers Better Not Go Cheap on RFA Tenders
The Panthers RFA tenders are due tomorrow and they have some interesting decisions. Though Darin Gantt thinks the Panthers only have one 'must keep' RFA (LB Thomas Davis) I think we could add two more to that list. Davis should get the high tender of a 1st and 3rd round pick. After that should the Panthers in turn put the same tag on these two players?
QB Matt Moore
Given the scarcity of decent quarterbacks on the market, the Panthers should at least use the $2.396million first-rounder, and weigh whether it's worth $3.043million to get a first and a third if someone signs him away.
It's hard to imagine a team would give up a 1st round pick for a UDFA QB but I'm not so sure. What if a team like the Redskins decides that Moore is better and certainly more experienced than any of their choices in this year's draft? Moore would certainly come a lot cheaper than the #4 pick. Now maybe you might jump at the chance but then know it would also guarantee Jake Delhomme as the starter at QB this fall. I'm not as down on that scenario as many on this site, particularly if it includes a 1st round pick but I still think Moore could be a starter for a number of years here. The Panthers have a really tough decision here.
CB Richard Marshall
Cornerbacks are in high demand this off-season
The Panthers should tender him at least at the first-round level ($2.521million) if not the first-and-third ($3.168million) if they want to keep him. Tendering even at the second-round level ($1.759million) might invite someone to make a run at him, and the Panthers probably couldn't replace his production with a second-rounder in this year's draft.
If the Panthers don't place a 1st round tender on Marshall (or even the higher 1st & 3rd) then I bet he gets a look from several teams. Marshall still has upside, is young but very experienced from his three seasons playing the nickel. Even a 1st round tender will have some risk as the Panthers don't have much experience behind Marshall. I would consider Marshall to be the 2nd riskiest loss with regards to being able to replale him behind Davis.
DT Lewis Leonard
Leonard might be an after thought to many but he presents an interesting decision.
They've tried negotiating something longer-term but don't seem interested in paying $1.684million for the second-round tender. Since he wasn't drafted, they'd get no compensation if they used the low tender of $1.101million. That, combined with his age (25) and the lack of quality defensive tackles on the market means the Panthers might be forced to match another team's offer if they want to keep him - and they do.
I'm sure whatever they have planned for Kemo will weigh in on this decision. If they think Kemo will fully recover and is worth his price they might place the lower tender on him. If they lose him then it would simply be a case of swapping a lower round (a 6th) for a higher round pick. If they throw a higher tender on Leonard it might indicate they might have plans to cut Kemo.
DT Tank Tyler
Unlike Leonard above Tyler carries some 'bust label' baggage and might be deemed expendable given the Panthers depth at the DT position with Lewis and Corvey Irvan competing for the same spot. Tyler may simply be a victim of the Cheifs 3-4 defense in which he did not fit but you have to wonder why they would trade a 3rd round selection for a 5th to a team desperate for DTs
Like Leonard, the trade acquisition showed promise before getting hurt. Now, he could become part of the long-term answer at the position. He could be the eventual replacement for Damione Lewis.
The thought of gaining a lower round pick if someone signs him is appealing. The Panthers have too many DTs on the roster assuming they only keep four so someone has to go. The signing of Ed Johnson doesn't help Tank's cause.
If the Panthers don't tender this guy it makes you wonder if Kasay might be gone too:
He's very good at what he does, but he's the ultimate niche player. They have to keep him (or someone like him) as long as John Kasay's here kicking field goals. Lloyd's never inspired confidence kicking for points, and you have to wonder if he ever will...They've talked with his agent about options, which seems a sign they don't want to invest $1.101million in him. It wouldn't be hard to find someone cheaper.
How many more seasons will the Panthers continue to use two roster spots and the combined dollar value for the kicker position? My guess is at least one more.
So what do you guys think about the potential tenders?
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118 comments
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Comments
Put the highest tender on Moore
It’s not that much more to do it, and we need the security of a reliable backup if Jake gets the starting job back. Unless Big Cat is going to sign a FA QB, we need that security and I would rather give it to Moore than an unproven draft pick or the washed up corpse of Josh McCown or A.J. Feeley.
And, if a team were to sign him, it would be nice to get the 1st and 3rd picks in return.
Draft Gilyard!
Of course they'd sign somebody in that case.
If Moore gets gone, I’m certain we’d make a QB a priority through the draft or FA.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
I meant if they were going to sign a FA QB regardless
I should have made that more clear – but I meant if they sign a QB before someone signs Moore.
Draft Gilyard!
If he wants to do that...
What he’s “got” to do is win the job. It’s something he’s never been able to accomplish, unless you’re impressed that he’s beaten out Bret Basanez and Hunter Cantwell.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
True… he’s only beaten Basanez and Cantwell in camp.
But during the 2009 season he quarterbacked the Panthers to four wins in five starts, compared to Delhomme’s 4 wins in 7 starts.
So, while I’m not impressed that he beat Basanez and Cantwell, I am impressed that he was better than Delhomme in 2009 and stepped in and beat solid teams.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 3, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Solid teams that had...
“0 on line. Neither looked interested in being there. Not Matt’s fault, but reality.”
—Darin Gantt
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll take Gantt’s word for it on the Panthers as he’s an excellent beat writer. However, I don’t consider him an authority on the effort of the Giants or Vikings… especially when both definitely had something on the line.
Vikings were fighting with the Saints for home field, and the Giants were fighting for the wildcard. I call BS that ‘0 was on the line’
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 3, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Absolutely ignorant comment from a beat writer who should know better.
I would like a link to that verbatim quote from Gantt – I can’t believe that’s what he said, and if he did, I am dumbfounded at his assumption.
Procton accurately posted his quote directly. It was from his Twitter... here is the whole thing
0 on line. Neither looked interested in being there. Not Matt’s fault, but reality. RT @jcmahoney Re: Moore, how were MIN and NYG mop-ups?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 3, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
The tweetings of a birdbrain.
Thanks for the reply.
jake had 4 wins in 11 starts
and played horribly, even in the wins.
This again??
Basanez and Cantwell in camp??
Camp is old news. How about when he got his chance to start in ’09, he outplayed the great Brett Favre in a game when the Vikings could have clinched the #1 seed in the playoffs with a win against the Panthers, that everyone expected they would? Go look it up – 12/20/09 – Favre 17 for 27, 224 yds, 0 TD, 1 INT. Moore 21 for 33, 299 yds, 3 TDs, 0 Ints. And the next week, vs the Giants, again heavily favored and needing the game, Moore completed 75 of his passes with 3 more TDs and 0 INTs.
Stow the Basanez/Cantwell crap. Moore’s “beaten out” a lot better than they’ll ever be. And when it counted, in a real game, not “camp” conditions.
(I’m agreeing with you, James — just annoyed that we’ve got to rehash that tired old refrain.)
Since when do quarterbacks compete on the field at the same time?
I’m struck with the notion that Favre was going against a defense playing much better than the Vikings’ was at that point in the season (for whatever reason…I’ll go with they just didn’t care with virtually no chance to wrest the #1 seed from the Saints.) Moore had nothing to do with that.
Competitions are about allowing multiple contenders equal opportunity in equal circumstances to win a job. Moore’s never been able to do that.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
"with virtually no chance to wrest the #1 seed from the Saints"
Going into the Panthers game the Vikings were 11-2, they were playing in the Sunday night game against Carolina.
Earlier in the day the Saints lost to Dallas in a 1 o’clock game. Their record when the game was over was 13-1.
If they won vs. Carolina they would be one game back with two to play. I don’t know if I’d consider that virtually impossible.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 3, 2010 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
I see you're still beating this drum
The tune is getting familiar and old.
He’ll win his job in camp, just like he won the majority of the games he started last season.
Strange that you're so sure when he hasn't been able to do it yet.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
You mean the way Delholme beat Peete in camp?
Give it up. Managers don’t get fired because someone may be better, they get fired because they screw up too often. QB is the game manager, how many times has Fox switched a starting QB in camp? He is loyal to vets, and that is a good thing. Jake seems to be a hell of a guy who still has D-Will saying that he should be the leader.
This is however wrong.
I would guess (and I will be called on this) that the team loves playing for Jake. He is the employees’ manager. He also works well with corporate. However, he is starting to let things slip. While he takes responsibility for these mistakes he keeps making them. Some players seem to be showing signs of frustration (Smith), but they still love him.
Almost all of us have loved a boss only to see them go and have some one promoted to their place. While it is uncomfortable, it is necessary.
Moore may not lead the team in the locker room (something we always let Peppers get away with), but he has successfully on the field. Fox should hand the team over to him, so that the old crew can finally accept working for a new boss.
If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
This is why I would love for Delholme to stay on in a coaching or front office job.
If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
Nice way to put it -- in perspective that all can relate to.
(All that have had jobs, that is) :-)
Yes, Fox is SO loyal to his vets.
That’s why Jon Beason started as a rookie over Na’Il Diggs.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
...
thats not even right. Jon Beason started at Middle LB because Dan Morgan got hurt…surprise…
by SouthernPanther on Mar 4, 2010 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
Sure it's not.
Care to explain to me, then how Jon Beason started all 16 games of his rookie season, including Weeks 1-3 alongside Dan Morgan, who started at MLB?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 4, 2010 2:44 AM EST up reply actions
Mistake?
I am positive Diggs was the starter. Maybe he was injured for the first week? IDK, this is waaaay back in 07.
btw MP, what are you doing up so late? Isn’t it like 3 in the morning where you are?
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Mar 4, 2010 3:25 AM EST up reply actions
No, he wasn't.
Beason won the job at ROLB over Diggs, and moved to MLB only after Morgan hit IR.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 5, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
And Diggs wasn't injured.
He played in all 16 games that year.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 5, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
06?
I seem to remember a radio interview where he said it was good to be back. It was right before the Cleveland game.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Mar 6, 2010 5:15 AM EST up reply actions
There is loyalty...
… and then there is letting your first rounder sit on his ass. Come on man.
If God came down on Christmas Day
I know exactly what He'd say
He'd say "Oi!" to the punks
and "Oi!" to the skins
but "Oi!" to the world and everybody wins.
-The Vandals
Beason held out of most of camp
so he was behind in playbook knowledge.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Mar 5, 2010 2:03 AM EST up reply actions
Like Jon Stewart did?
What about DeAngelo’s rookie year? Or Thomas Davis? Or hell, Everette Brown?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 5, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Beason is the only guy who held out
Stew was injured, and Brown, Davis, and Williams all attended camp.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Mar 6, 2010 5:16 AM EST up reply actions
The flip side you could also argue
is he has never been given a real chance to win the job. Delhomme was the pegged starter last season and unless he totally tanked there was little Moore could do change Fox’s mind. I think he will have more of an open mind this year though.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Sure.
That’s why he was the #3 behind McCown, right? Because Josh was the “pegged backup,” right?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
If Moore gets a reasonable long-term contract offer…you just match it! He just hasn’t proven enough at this point to be worth a huge, first-round QB type of deal.
I also think risking the loss of Leonard for just $600K would be foolish. There are exactly five UFA DTs on the market who are under 30, and it’s not exactly a position of strength where we can afford to lose a guy who was atop our depth chart last year when he got hurt.
The original pick tender is the minimum for Tyler. Gotta get at least a third back or keep him for the year.
I think Lloyd’s worth the third (the first step up from no compensation.) He’s an invaluable weapon on ST, and we’ve seen what happens when Baker or, worse, Kasay, tries to kickoff. Both struggle to get it past the 10 on a consistent basis. And both are under contract through the end of the 2012 season, so this is going to be an ongoing issue, because I just don’t see them getting better at the job as they continue to age.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
matching
isn’t always so easy… I remember back in the day when the saints signed Chad Cota away from us (yes I still remember that INT against Pitt to clinch!!!)…
anyway, they put poison pills in his contract that made it almost impossible for us to match. IE if panthers defensed improved chad got huge bonus, or contracted ended after one year. At the time saints were one of the top 5 def and we were bottom so the likelihood of us improving was good and they probably weren’t…
I’m not sure if there are rules against that type of thing now or not, but I know it’s not always so easy to match, and all it takes is one team to value MM…
disclaimer
My memory is a little fuzzy about the specifics of the poison pill but it was something like that…
An easy pill for a team to put in would be if MM throws less more TD’s than the team did last year… well very likely that he will with panthers(if he starts), not necessarily true other places…
I know
I"m conversating with myself but… from wikipedia…
In an act of apparent revenge, the Seattle Seahawks included their own “poison pills” when signing restricted free agent wide receiver Nate Burleson. The total contract was seven years and $49 million – not coincidentally the exact amount of the contract Hutchinson received from the Vikings. The first poison pill stipulated that the entire contract would be guaranteed if Burleson played five or more games in the state of Minnesota during any year of the contract. This of course would be impossible as a member of the Seahawks, but an inevitability as a member of the Vikings, who play their home games in the Metrodome in Minnesota. The second provision would guarantee the full contract if Burleson is paid more on average per year than all of his team’s running backs combined. At the time of his signing, the averages of the Vikings’ tailbacks fell well shy of the $7 million average of the Burleson offer sheet. However in Seattle, running back Shaun Alexander alone made an average of over $7 million per year.
I could be wrong… but if I remember correctly the league made rules against these ludicrious types of poison pills after that Burleson incidenct.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 3, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
I was at that Cota game.
And I’m struck with the notion that a matched one-year deal isn’t much different than playing out the season on the one-year tender. Also, that clause ended up costing the Saints, as they finished in the top 5 of the NFL in INTs, causing the voidable parts of the contract to vest.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
Nice post Jaxon
Here are my thoughts:
Matt Moore: 1st and 3rd tender
Richard Marshall: 1st round tender
Louis Leonard: 2nd round tender
Tank Tyler: Low tender
Rhys LloydL Low tender
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 3, 2010 10:34 AM EST reply actions
You forgot TD
But then I agree from there.:)
One of South Africa's only Carolina Panthers and fans.
by chinchillas sword on Mar 3, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Davis needs to be a 1st and 3rd tender... no question
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 3, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Totally Agree
im in total agreement with you on this one james.
by SouthernPanther on Mar 3, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
That sounds about right
The Marshall one would worry me a little but then again a team needing a CB could get a pretty good one in the first round this year.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
We still have right of first refusal though… so we could match any deal someone throws at him.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 3, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
About that DT position...
so much of it depends on the team’s feelings about Kemo, I think we all understand that. But here’s something I caught wind of recently, and it’s got me baffled:
Maake Kemoeatu, Panthers: Once a feared run-stopping nose, complications from a botched Achilles’ tendon surgery that cost him all of 2009 may now cost Kemo his roster spot. The 31-year-old is due a whopping $9.3 million option bonus in March.
Has anyone else heard this? I like to think that I’m pretty caught-up on Panthers news, and I haven’t heard anything about problems with Kemo’s surgery. I also wasn’t aware that he gets a Peppers-sized roster bonus, but if he can play then that’s fair. But if there’s a problem with that Achilles…
Anybody?
I had...
i had read that earlier in the season. An old DT coming off an achilles problem who has weight issues is not someone I want to be paying a 9 million dollar option. They gotta let him go as much as it hurts. He isn’t worth that kind of money.
by SouthernPanther on Mar 3, 2010 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
maybe they still are giving him a chance
or his recovery is looking much better
by pantherpride on Mar 3, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
either way
he isn’t a nine million dollar DT..
by SouthernPanther on Mar 3, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Don't be.
Those numbers and facts listed above are wrong.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
Which weight issues are those?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
well...
last i heard kemo’s weight was 380 POUNDS!!!! I think it might be hard for him to lose that weight and get back down to his playing weight which is more around 350…
by SouthernPanther on Mar 4, 2010 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
You heard wrong.
Vierra described the Panthers as "micro-managing the rehab," indicating to him the importance they place on getting Kemoeatu healthy. The biggest help might have been that Kemoeatu kept his weight in check during his inactive time, staying in the 360-370 pound range, when many around the team feared it would go much higher. The goal remains to have him well enough to participate in training camp.
http://www.heraldonline.com/2010/02/14/1943727/panthers-focus-on-health-of-big.html
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 4, 2010 2:45 AM EST up reply actions
Not exactly.
It wasn’t botched. He just didn’t heal particularly well and required a skin graft to prevent infection. The latest word is that he’s kept his weight where the Panthers hoped he would and he should be ready to go 100% by training camp. And he’ll never see that option bonus. He will get a bonus between $1 and 2 million, but they could save between $2 and $3 million in base salary by cutting him.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
What about C.J. Wilson?
I believe he’s getting alot better now and i think he plays better in coverage than Richard Marshall. If you watched the game against the Bucs when Antonio Bryant was burning Richard Marshall on every play and they benched him for C.J. Wilson and he shut Antonio Down. I think he should get tendered for a third round. I think he would be a great shutdown corner but not a tackler like Richard Marshall.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 3, 2010 12:05 PM EST reply actions
I'm not remembering this
I remember AB having a big game but not remembering CJ then coming in a shutting him down.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
ok
find a way to watch the game again. Before C.J. Wilson came him, Bryant had above 5 catches for almost 100 yards or so, but when C.J. Wilson replaced Marshall, he had about 1 or 2 catches and then Freeman started trying to force the balls which caused all his interceptions on that day. Go watch that game again and you would see what i am talking about. I believe he’s only capable of taking out big receivers, like Colston, AB, and Co, but i think he would have problem covering receivers of Steve Smith Statue, cos they throw them slants and fade routes. I don’t think C.J. Wilson has a lot of speed, but i know he’s better on coverage, and The Captain in just Awesome. I couldn’t believe it when they put him to cover Roy Williams of the Dallas Cowboys. That shows how much they believe in him.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 3, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
and i am not saying C.J. had the interception, i am just saying Freeman forced the balls elsewhere and caused all his interceptions on that day.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 3, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting...had not heard that but it is interesting
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
yea, just watch the game again and you would see it for yourself and draw your own conclusion.
Sometimes i think Fox and Hurney know some players plays very good but they don’t want to give them an opportunity in fear of other teams getting them. What happened to the best players play on sunday. I completely agree with the move to put Charles Geofrey back when he was healthy and not leaving S. Martin in there. He doesn’t know how to tackle, he’s just a ballhawk.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 3, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, definitely.
The Panthers are definitely putting inferior players on the field so they can stash the better guys on the bench. LOL.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
We did use C.J. on coverage vs bigger receivers.
Marshall and Captain are chippy guys, but small. Gamble is big, but he is finesse. Wilson is big, physical, and rangy, we even put him on Fitzgerald at one point in the season.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Mar 4, 2010 2:24 AM EST up reply actions
He might have had one good game...
However, the league perception of him is probably that he’s a nickel back at his best. I doubt he’ll get many offers even at the 7th-round tender, and we can find a rookie to step in on special teams and in the dime.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
Also Dante Wesley and Quinton Teal
I think they should resign Wesley but let Teal go as we have a good backup in Martin.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 3, 2010 12:07 PM EST reply actions
Teal's good
He’s a good SS Martin is more finesse Teal plays a whole lot like Godfrey but better tackler.:)
One of South Africa's only Carolina Panthers and fans.
by chinchillas sword on Mar 3, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
And a whole lot worse in coverage?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t forget the good Captain!
Munnerlyn became really solid, particularily towards the end of the year.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 3, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Very good in man coverage, playing close to the line
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Though we were talking about RFA, the Captain is on contract until 2013 i think.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 3, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Though we were talking about RFA, the Captain is under contract until 2013 i think.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 3, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
My mistake… I thought you were talking about the secondary as a whole, regardless of contract.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 3, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Wesley is not an RFA.
They’ll have both back for ST, though, if they’ll sign cheap.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
also Wesley is an Unrestricted Free Agent
I hope they resign him.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 4, 2010 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
Re: Thomas Davis
If the panthers want to save $ they could do a 1st round only tender on him. Are teams really going to be will to trade a 1st round pick for a weak side LB coming off a knee injury?
Good point...this draft has a lot of good LB's
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Also
I think as a rule fans overvalue their own players. So while I like TD a lot, and he had a breakout season last year playing in the new defense, I don’t know if other teams would value him as highly…
I know this is not part of this post, but
reports just came by Pat Yasinskas of ESPN.com that the panthers offered Peppers something close to 14 million a year and he turned it down. I really don’t know what peppers’ motivation is. Does he really think the Bears or the Redskins would be a better contender than Carolina? the only serious opposition we have in our division is the Saints. None of the teams in our division has beaten us twice in the last 2-3 years. I Believe we owe Atlanta and the Bucs. If not for stupid Delhomme’s meltdown this season, i believe we would have made the playoffs. Also the stubborness of Head coach John Fox caused us a shot at the Playoffs. I completely understand if he didn’t want to pull Jake out of the game and he gave him numerous opportunities to redeem himself but he never did. I believe he should have benched Delhomme in the first Meltdown. Bench him and let him think of what he’s doing. If he has to study the playbook again he should and make better reads and throws. If Moore melts down too, i would still stay with Moore cos you are trying to prove a point and every fan knows that when they watch Jake throw the ball everytime for the past 2-3 years they hold their breathe to hope the ball is not been intercepted.
by panthertillidrop on Mar 3, 2010 1:43 PM EST reply actions
jake sucks
but you mention pep being a contender somewhere else. pep is not worried about winning. last year, he got paid over a million per regular season game. he hardly makes a dime (from his perspective) from playoff games. so he doesn’t work as hard. if we added a clause that he would get over a million per playoff game, he’d work harder to get us there.
No, EVERY fan does not do that.
Just those who root for their teams to fail.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
I’d be more sick with kickoffs that can’t go past the 20 yard line.
I love Kasay, but he doesn’t have the leg anymore
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 3, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This.
And Baker’s no better. With both locked in through 2012, this problem is not going away.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
Not a popular opinion but...
I won’t be loved for saying this, but in my defense I don’t like it either: With the strength of the coming class and financial uncertainties, a lot of vets will be waiting for a phone that will not be ringing this free agent season.
OK, since Moore hasnt “proven” himself enough to start, has Pick6 “proven” himself enough to be benched? I guess Moore has to have an undefeated record, walk on water, and move mountains before he can start for the Panthers lol.
"It's a bad day to have a bad day" - Coach John Fox of the Carolina Panthers
Yeah. Training camp is where its at.
The Meadowlands be damned…. The New York Giants fighting for their playoff lives means NOTHING in comparison to some 7 on 7 drills in Wofford, SC.
But, Umm, Well, Ya See, Err,
I am right and you are wrong and everybody except me is a complete moron and are not entitled to an opinion. I have not once in my life agreed with anyone about anything. Jake in 2010 and beyond!
Do or do not. There is no try.
by ERL on Mar 3, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
not to be a douche
But it’s Spartanburg, SC – not Wofford, SC
LOL just bustin ya – don’t hate!
Draft Gilyard!
Its at Wofford College
But yeah, splitting hairs
Do or do not. There is no try.
by ERL on Mar 3, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
ah man. epic fail on my part.
How could I forget that it was Wofford COLLEGE in Spartanburg, SC.
I mean, that is really dumb… considering it is THE GREATEST FOOTBALL PROVING GROUND ON THE PLANET.
:o)
Last I've seen, there are four different game opportunities to win jobs.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
Sure but who starts with the inside track?
If they all equally rock or suck in camp does Moore get the start by default or Delhomme? That was my thought after last year’s TC. An 0-4 preseason left me thinking none of the QB’s looked especially competent as compared to the others.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Why is there an inside track?
There won’t be any ties. One QB will outplay the other, and given their track records, it’s likely to be Delhomme.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
Why do you think it’s likely to be Delhomme?
QB competitions don’t happen every season in Spartanburg, this is the first season that Delhomme has been challenged in camp. Like it was mentioned earlier, let’s not forget that Delhomme’s last QB in the summer of ‘03 he couldn’t beat Rodney Peete.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 3, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
Because Moore has come out flat in every preseason action he's ever seen.
And as for Delhomme, he immediately proved his ability to overcome adversity and win a game that mattered, something Moore has yet to do.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
Incumbent starters aren’t usurped in camp without good cause, no matter how good another player looks. You’re characterizing the situation as if Moore has had a fair chance to take over the reigns every year, but fell flat.
We both know this isn’t the case. This camp will mark the first since 2003 where it has been announced there’s an open competition for the job.
Has Moore looked flat in preseason games playing with 2nd and 3rd string players? Absolutely.
Does he have a stellar record as a starter when given the opportunity to play with the starters? Absolutely.
I don’t slight Fox for not pulling Jake outright in a lot of the games where he was a major factor in the Panthers’ deficit, but at the same time you can’t hold it against Moore that Fox was unwilling in 2009 to do what he did in week one of 2003… pull a failing starter to force a spark.
I assume you’ll counter by referencing the Philly game, but realistically Moore wasn’t remotely prepared for that game being the 3rd string QB, and the problems with the Panthers went far deeper than just the QB position in that game.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 3, 2010 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
Was Moore not also playing AGAINST 2nd, 3rd, and 4th string players? Absolutely.
If Moore was such a great option, why the hell wasn’t he at least the backup?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 4, 2010 2:46 AM EST up reply actions
Fox loves his vets
McCown had more experience and success as a starter than Moore at the time.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Mar 4, 2010 3:26 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, Fox loves his vets.
That’s why our talented rookies always tend to have big roles. Got it.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 5, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
You deny Fox likes experienced players?
And you deny the reasons I stated for why McCown had the #2 role over Moore?
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Mar 6, 2010 5:20 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t know why Moore wasn’t the backup. Only the coaching staff can answer that question.
While we’re at it we might as well ask the Dallas Cowboys why Tony Romo was a 3rd string QB behind Vinny Testaverde and Drew Henson in 2004, and 3rd string behind Quincy Carter and Chad Hutchinson in 2003.
Obviously something happened in that situation that kept Romo behind four other QBs, one of which is retired and the other three are out of the league.
In the same vein, David Garrard sat behind Mark Brunell and Byron Leftwich in 2003.
Both Romo and Garrard were Pro Bowlers this year. There is a precedent for teams having QBs buried on the depth chart who ultimately end up shining when given the chance.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 4, 2010 7:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He'll never directly address you on this
He’ll just keep piping in garbage about how Moore only played in games that don’t matter.
The Perfect Squelch!
Had to Rec that one.
Way to put it in perspective. Another weak argument shot down.
Let’s recap:
Opponents’ games meant nothing to them. Nah
Hasn’t come from behind. Nah
Why the hell wasn’t he at least the backup? Nah
Show me a game where he's come back from a significant second-half defecit.
Thanks.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 5, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
And how many games do we have to choose from?
8? He hasn’t had that many chances.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Mar 6, 2010 5:21 AM EST up reply actions
There's also precedent for quarterbacks looking ok and then falling on their face.
See Anderson, Derek.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 5, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
There's also precedend for them looking great and then being great
See Romo, Tony.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
by Flowing Willow on Mar 6, 2010 5:20 AM EST up reply actions
Ask John Fox if the last 5 games of the season mattered in 2009.
They likely meant his job. They all matter.
Do or do not. There is no try.
He'll have to win the job in camp.
Shouldn’t be so hard for the greatest thing to happen to quarterbacking since Jeff Lewis.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 3, 2010 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
I seriously don't follow your logic
Anytime you post something my troll sense starts tingling.
I find it really difficult to believe someone that is, by your posts, obviously intellectually capable so frighteningly obtuse about a situation.

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