Panthers CB Marshall Seeking Offer Sheet But No Takers Yet
by Jaxon on Mar 29, 2010 12:01 PM EDT
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PrintSince first hearing the Panthers tendered starting CB Richard Marshall at the 2nd round level we have wondered if Marshall would feel slightly by the seemingly low offer. Pro Football Weekly apparently has an answer:
RFA CB Richard Marshall is not participating in the Panthers' voluntary offseason conditioning program to show his displeasure with being tendered at the second-round level. Marshall is hoping another team will send him an offer sheet, but it doesn't appear that there's much of a market for his services at this time.
So should Marshall be upset or should he instead actually work on his game? If the lack of interest from other teams doesn't convince him of the latter he might want to look at the stats. Pro Football Focus CB stats has him ranked the 78th best CB in the league. Let's see, 32 teams, 2 starting CB's per team equals 64. So that means there were about 15 back-up CB's that performed better than Marshall in 2009.
A further breakdown by category shows he weaknesses and his not so weak areas:
- He's #106 (-5.1) against the run (out of 107, only DeAngelo Hall was worse)
- He's #86 as a pass rusher (-.04)
- He's #69 penalty-wise (-3.5)
- He's #32 in coverage (+2.4)
- He tied for the team led in INT's with 4 (the Panthers finished 5th in the NFL with 22)
It's interesting though that Marshall in turn was second on the team in tackles with 88 in 2009, 75 were solo. The explanation must be that teams threw at him much more than Chris Gamble, and completed them and then Marshall made the tackle. I don't have the stats for how many times teams ran to his side but I imagine that too leaned heavily against him. The PFF stats above suggest Marshall does not get off blocks well.
Being an edge CB obviously the coverage stat is the most important but the other stats certainly highlight where Marshall needs to improve and probably answers the mail as to why the Panthers tendered him a 2nd and why that appears likely his best offer.
If you look at his game breakdown it's pretty interesting too. Marshall saved his best and his worst for our division foes:
- Two if his best three cover games (only three on the season in the green) were against ATL.
- His best game was in the season closer against a Brees-less Saints squad. That's not a confidence-builder in my book.
- His two worst coverage games was the Bills game and the second TB game.
- His worst game of the season was the first Saints game which is no surprise given how that one turned out. The secondary got shredded in the second half.
What is most surprising to me looking at these stats is simply how average Marshall was most of the season. It's obvious the guy played well enough to keep his starting job throughout the year but only because he had no serious challenger. That may change this off-season though. The rookie Captain Munnerlyn didn't exactly light it up at #96 but again he's a rookie. He was plagued by too many penalties also struggled against the run. Though I think both players have upside don't be surprised of Munnerlyn gives him a run for his money
Unless of course some other team gives Marshall the money he is looking for. I think he would be wise instead to focus on his game and then the let the money work itself out. Marshall still has until April 15th to sign his tender.
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Munnerlyn's not just a rookie
He’s an undersized 7th round draft pick! Munnerlyn impressed because nobody expects much value out of those late rounds. I’d like to see how Marshall in his rookie year stacked up against Munnerlyn. Could be very telling.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
Meeeeh~
Let Richard Marshall fill his fishbowl with his own tears. Eventually the water level will rise so high that he drowns out his inflated image of his own reflection and we can get back to playing some football.
I can think of 4 guys behind him that would LOVE to have a starting job.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Personally, I think Richard Marshall was overvalued in the minds of a lot of fans.
He’s a decent #2 corner, but definitely nothing to write home about. I’d love to see him stay in Carolina, but as deep as the 2010 draft is if the Panthers didn’t match a tender we could easily draft a Kyle Wilson, Devin McCourty, Brandon Ghee or Kareem Jackson who are better long term prospects.
The fact the coaching staff were utilizing Munnerlyn as the #2 corner is some situations late in the season should indicate their feelings on the good Captain.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Captain just has an excellent name.
If he becomes a starter, we should start a fan club. You can be a fan of Captain Munnerlain and bring out your inner Raider at the same time. Now that would be awesome.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Sheeesh
I don’t know about you, but associating anything with what could resemble a “Raider” is kinda blaaaah…even when you are not speaking of the oakland variety.
How about leaving it as inner “Pirate”…at least you could link up locally with ECU…Blackbeard…even Johnny Depp, but RAIDER leaves a bad Al Davis mediocre kinda taste in my mouth…yuuuuuuchhhhkkkk!!!
No way. I'm bleeding orange on this end.
But Captain? He’s a good player. You simply can’t deny it. =p
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
You might want to get a doctor to check that out
if your bleeding orange on one end ;)
Yeah…once they get to the Pros the college alliances fade away. If grown to love Thomas Davis in spite of that ugly shade of red he used to wear!
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
If Munnerlyn would have stayed for his senior season
According to most draftboards a year ago, if Munnerlyn would have stayed at South Carolina for his senior season then he would have easily been a top 20 pick in this seasons draft. We scored a great pick with munnerlyn in the 7th round a year ago, I just hope we are as lucky this year.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Mar 29, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He might end up being the best 7th round pick in Panther history
I think there are going to be good players available in the 7th round this year.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
captain at #2 scares me.. hes 5’8" 180 lbs what happens when the chargers come to town with two 6’5" receivers
Per NFL.com
Marshall is 5’11", 189 lbs
Munnerlyn is 5’9", 185 lbs
I don’t know how much two inches and four pounds helps against 6’5" receivers.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
I seem to remember people saying that kind of thing about a certain undersized receiver on our roster.
Size isn’t every thing Revis is 5’11 198lbs and is widely seen as the number one CB in the league 2 inches and 13lbs isn’t a lot to overcome if you have the skills and the instincts to play the position.
"I kinda just sling it" -Jake
by bleed_in_blue on Mar 29, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps the Panthers have a soft spot in their hearts...
…for undersized CB’s; Tyrone Poole was a 1st round draft choice for the Panthers in 1995 at 5’ 8" and 190 pounds. I think being a little short makes ’em scrappy…and scrappy is a pretty good quality in a CB.
If they got those fluid hips and can jump 38" inches
being 5-8 doesn’t really matter
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
+1
Furthermore, the vertical leap and wingspan of a CB matter far more than their standing height.
Munnerlyn had a greater vertical jump at the combine than Marshall did, granted it was only by 1/2 an inch, but if we’re knocking him for being short it should be noted.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
I'd be pissed too
He deserved a first round tender.
by SouthernPanther on Mar 29, 2010 2:21 PM EDT reply actions
I dunno...
just because he was decent…sorta, in our backfield, doesn’t make him first round tender material, his stats weren’t first round tender stats…IMO
OVERRATED
i really think marshall is overrated…he always looked to be a step behind whoever he was covering, were his picks due to bad throws or what? i really doubt that he made a spectacular play on the ball….i just think he is seriously overrated….with that many tackles it looks like he was targeted ALOT!!
a bunch of garbage
the pro football focus ratings are garbage. look at them. marshall is not overrated, and that makes no sense to me when people say that. i am saying that because when everyone talks about how good he is, everyone says the same thing. he’s a solid tackler who plays the run well and is good in bump and run. he’s an overall good corner, but he’s not an elite cover guy or a superstar against the run. he’s good enough to start on most teams in the league, but not all of them. if anyone disagrees, it’s not because they think he completely sucks or because they think he’s all that. he’s somewhere in the middle. and those ratings are subjective. really, who would you rather have, marshall or steve gregory, jonathan wade, michael adams, or elbert mack? those guys were rated higher but were back-ups who took less than half the snaps marshall took.
You guys are crazy
Over the past few years, Richard Marshall has consistently been the best ball hawk on our team. While guys like Beason and Gamble were dropping potential opportunities, he was making plays. He should have started over Ken Lucas two years ago. I agree he needs to continue to improve, but give he some props guys.
Statistically Marshall hasn't been the best ball hawk on the team.
If you combine forced fumbles and interceptions:
2009
Julius Peppers: 6 total
Chris Harris: 5 total
Charles Godfrey: 5 total
Chris Gamble: 4 total
Sherrod Martin: 4 total
Jon Beason: 4 total
Richard Marshall: 4 total
2008
Julius Peppers: 5 total
Jon Beason: 3 total
Chris Harris: 3 total
Chris Gamble: 3 total
Charles Godfrey: 2 total
Richard Marshall: 1 total
2007
Chris Harris: 9 total
Julius Peppers: 4 total
Deke Cooper: 4 total
Richard Marshall: 2 total
2006
Richard Marshall: 5 total
Chris Gamble: 3 total
etc.
So, while Marshall is definitely valuable at getting INTs, he’s still not statistically a top turnover producer. Interceptions very rarely indicate who the best CB is. While their definitely useful, no doubt, often it indicates that a corner is being targeted often.
Case in point: I think most would agree that Darrelle Revis was the best CB last season, he was tied 5th in the NFL in interceptions.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Stop with these Pep-leading stats
Someone might actually think he’ll not be easily replaced.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
Don't worry
Pep’s forced fumbles may put him up in the Panthers’ rankings, but he’s still not at the top of the NFL as one would expect from the ‘most dominant defensive end in the NFL’
3rd in 2009
5th in 2008
26th in 2007
20th in 2006
44th in 2005
7th in 2004
16th in 2003
5th in 2002
Average ranking in FF: 15.75
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James Dator on Mar 30, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought we already decided
That stats can easily be interpreted unfairly
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
And that FF was a bit short sighted?
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
When applied to Peppers I guess.
He’s the only player I know of that continually gets excused for never topping his position in the statistics of accepted strength, in the case of DE’s they are typically judged by their sacks, TFL and forced fumbles.
Yet, despite rarely leading the league or even being in the top 5 in these statistics he’s still supposedly one of the league’s best at his position.
I just can’t find another player who more excuses are made for.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James Dator on Mar 31, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not specializing in one thing, but consistency over his career in a lot of categories
Yes I said consistency… Not game to game, but he had only one down season. It’s not easy to find a DE who at a high level can do just about everything on every down. That is why he is so valuable, and why stats the way you are using them don’t measure.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
The statistics that matter
Marshall ranked 4th in 2009 in tackles among CB’s. And no, its not because he gave up more receptions. He gave up less receptions than 7 of the top 15 tacklers.
Marshall ranked 4th in stops (cumulative tackles that result in an offensive failure).
Marshall ranked 11th in yards allowed per catch at 10.0. Only two of the 11 ahead of him were starters.
Marshall had only 4 missed tackles for the year.
Of course, like everyone, there is room for improvement, but he had a solid year.
I’ve never put much stock in the Pro Football Focus rankings anyway. Here’s a list of the QB they had ranked higher than Matt Moore for 2009:
Bruce Gradkowski
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Trent Edwards
Kerry Collins
Shaun Hill
and…
JAKE DELHOMME
Ridiculous
Agreed
That stat against the run is ridiculous.
The same site has him ranked the #6 tackling CB from 2009.
I was coming here to show the other numbers, but you beat me to it.
The guy should’ve gotten a a 1st round tender, didn’t, and now we all wait.
by the bomb dot com on Mar 29, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Why should the Panthers have given him a 1st round tender?
The organization pays more money, they still have right of first refusal regardless and the situation would still be the same.
Marshall and Rosenhaus want a long term deal, which isn’t happening in Carolina this offseason.
My gut tells me the team thought this could happen and put the 2nd round tender on him so the league:
A. Sets his price
B. The get a decent pick if the price is too high.
If Brandon Marshall isn’t getting offered contracts on a 1st round tender, then Richard Marshall sure isn’t.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
I agree
But most of the contract offers to RFAs come after the draft, so it may be too early to tell if either Marshall will get any offers.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Other way around ERL
The deadline to sign RFA’s to offer sheets is April 15th, the draft is the 22nd.
They do this intentionally to ensure teams get their draft pick compensation for the current draft, otherwise a team could sign a player to an offer sheet with reckless abandon and not have to deal with the consequences for a calendar year.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Yeah my bad
In the final hour, most of this is done…at least thats how we roll in Charlotte.
Do or do not. There is no try.
I think you nailed it
Savvy move so far by the staff
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
Stats can be interpreted unfairly
But it looks like the staff knew what they were doing with this one
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
Their take on Moore..
Is that he was neither beneficial nor detriment to the Panthers success. Delhomme ranks higher overall for the few decent run plays he made last year.. He is in the negative passing wise. I don’t exactly agree with that assessment but they do have Moore graded a better passer than Delhomme.
If I understand correctly, the way they seem to handle things is that each player is only graded for what he has control over. If Moore were to hit Steve Smith for eight yards, then Smith takes it for another 40 for a touchdown, Moore gets graded “average” for his eight yard completion, meanwhile Smith gets graded “good” for the reception and the touchdown. Odd but they’re usually spot on. Personally, I’d have Moore up there near the top :).
Are you even remotely serious?
According to the site, Jake ran 6 TIMES, six, one less than 7, times. and because of that he was a better QB than Moore in 2010? I don’t care if they have 32 NFL coaches and 32 hacks who have a website analysing every play for 3 hours, there is no way Jake scores higher on any scale than any of the QB’s on that list and Matt Moore scores lower.
If you’ll look at Steve Smith’s YAC on that same site, you’ll see that the YAC is virtually the same in the weeks Delhomme was QB as when Moore was at the controls. Since he’s the #1, there’s no need to look farther, your arguement is blown already on that point.
If 8 TD’s and 2 ints in a 4-1 effort is neither beneficial nor detrimenal, then 8 TD’s and 18 ints in a 4-7 debacle certainly isn’t. In fact, by your logic, 10 giveaways doesn’t really matter because Jake ran 6 times for…. According to Yahoo.com Jake rushed 17-60, according to NFL.com Jake rushed 17-60, according to Panthers.com Jake rushed 17-60, so apparently Jake had 11 “rushes” that never existed. Maybe that’s the site’s hook. We “analyse”. Therefore, we can make ignorant claims about a players effectiveness. Again, I can only say, I’ve never given any credibility to anything on that site.
But, the post was about Marshall, and he’s a solid CB who deserved a 2nd tender. If he goes, we can replace him in the 2nd or 3rd. If he stays, we can use his skills and be a very good team.
Rather than pointlessly defend some “argument” that I didn’t even make, I just have one question, what are you asking if I am “remotely serious” about? Are you saying that my evaluation of the way they grade players is off? Considering the only matter I touched on in the above post was HOW they grade and not how ACCURATE their grades are, it must be. I didn’t defend them, nor did I bash them, I simply explained their system as it was explained to me. Meanwhile, I get jumped on about “my argument being blown” (which, by the way, I still don’t think you understood. The only player that Steve Smiths YAC affects is Steve Smith. Neither Delhomme nor Moore would receive credit for something he did himself) and “my logic” (I think you mean, their logic). Ha ha, too funny.
Understood perfectly
If you “UNDERSTOOD” how ignorant their statistics are, why make the “arguement” at all? I guess I lost it when you didnt agree that Delhomme needed a negative passer rating. My point being is that your entire post was unneccassary. Too many times on CSR, the point of the post is skewed into something totally off subject and becomes a pissing contest. When I listed the QB stats it was to defend Marshall as a solid CB, regardless of what that hack site’s statistics say, not to start another arguement on Moore vs. Delhomme. If you wanted to contradict the validity, your arguement should have been about Marshall, not Moore or Delhomme.
The mark of a good CB is too keep the play in front of him and not give up the big play. Marshall missed 4 tackles all year and kept opposing WR’s to 10 YPR. IF, and that’s a big IF, you can take the site’s stats to be accurate. If people would take a second to analyse what a response is about, or to think a second and try to see another point of view, CSR would be a much more enjoyable site to visit. Why does it have to be a “my point is the only valid one”. I’ll be the first to admit, I’m a newbie here and have done the same thing I just vented against. Maybe it’s time for a change. And while I’m typing this, I get what you’re saying about those not being your views. I reacted to the post and vented like a diehard fan should. Defended ’THEIR" QB, and “THEIR” CB at the same time.
I’ll do in the future what everyone should, THINK. Why did he post that? Is that relevant? Is that the point of the thread and demands a response? My apologies.
And since I’m going to turn over a new lear and have apologized I have to say.. YAC is influenced by where the QB places the ball and if he gives the WR or RB a chance to make a play and extend the 8 yard pass. Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Again, my apologies.
CSR is really big on understanding the other person's point of view.
In D-ranged case, he was pointing out how they’re rankings worked, and why they can’t automatically be ignored. He may not necessarily agree with the rankings themselves, but he understands how they work, so he understands why they can make the claims they do.
Also, while PFF only has Jake running six times, they do take out QB kneels and other things. NFL.com and Panthers.com do not. That’s why a lot of people like PFF, the rankings are opinion, as most rankings are, but the stats they provide can lead you to your own conclusions about a player. Where else can you find “QB rating throwing against Player B”?
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 31, 2010 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Sniff, that's a bit dismissive of you.
I find many of your posts well thought out, and I was the one who tried to dissuade you from leaving the site, when you said you may do, a week or so ago. So I’ll make another appeal. CSR is the BEST site on Panther discussion, bar none, and I read them all! I dare you to find better. Tell us if you do.
Now… to the point of this discussion…FlowingWillow brings out an excellent fact that has been overlooked, and speaks to the comparative validity of ProFootballFocus — you should reconsider your obvious and dismissive bias against that valuable site. The difference in Jake’s rushing stats is nothing more that their intelligent exclusion of kneel down plays, which certainly shouldn’t be an evaluated statistic at all. It is the stat sites like Yahoo and NFL.com that are the slackers for including them. (As a sidenote on that, recall the game where Matt Moore had over 300 yds passing, yet fell to 299 for the game because of end game kneel downs? There could be a possible bonus incentive consequence to something like that, for another QB.)
PFF has a unique grading system, and I’ve had my objections about a few of their player grades. I’ll mention one of them. I’ve been real big on Matt Moore, and discussed it with their mod, who’d graded him lower than I thought he should have been on one game. His comments to me (mainly about YAC) made me go back and grade Moore’s play on each throw he made in the game in question. Sure, enough, I had to agree with them. Yardage stats alone for a QB are only one factor. To sum it up, they do what no other site I know of does (perhaps you can find it for a fee elsewhere, but I’m talking for free), and that’s evaluate each player, on each play. It’s similar to what Mike Mayock, and every other draft guru do, not just depend on the measurables, but go over game film.
This thread is about Marshall, and their grade on him is lower than his supporters feel they should be. Okay, there’s subjectivity involved in PFF’s grading, but take them for what they’re worth, another source of information from which to form your own opinions. That last thing is what we’ve all got plenty of, right?
Just to add..
I agree that Marshall is a very solid CB, I’ve always thought that. I was a bit upset with the 2nd round tender but I believe it’s going to work out. I also agree that YAC can be attributed to the QB to an extent as well. Really, my post wasn’t trying to be right or wrong, I was just trying to explain how they graded their players in case you weren’t aware, trying to be helpful, nothing more.
Sorry Marshall but
Hey R. Marshall you want the big contract then play better, you are slightly better than Ken Lucas was (an I am not talking about the K. Lucas that was terrible his last season in Charlotte either). The fact of the matter is that no team is going to give up a second rounder for Marshall and he is just slightly better than a average backup/nickel cornerback. He has average speed, average tackling ability, etc…. nothing wrong with that and I would gladly accept a second rounder for him in a heartbeat, but either way their is no way Marshall is going to be a Panther after the 2010 season regardless of a strike year or not.
Marshall is just a serviceable #2 CB and not this elite CB that he wishes he was, otherwise he would have received a multiyear offer sheet from another club already.
Go Panthers.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Mar 29, 2010 8:40 PM EDT reply actions
I can agree that Marshall is an average CB.
But in doing so, I’d have to say Gamble & Co all find themselves in the below average section.
As far as CB’s go, I’m only concerned with their coverage ability. There are plenty of other defensive positions that can contribute to run stopping and pass rushing.
I do believe he has quite a large room of improvement but I do not believe we currently have a better coverage CB on our team.
I’ve studied our CB stats waaayy too many times to go in depth but another quick glance shows me..
A) Marshall had less than half the missed tackles Gamble had, despite many more targets.
B) In that same token, he allowed a lower completion % than either Gamble or Munnerlyn.
C) He gave up fewer reception yards than Gamble despite more receptions (due to increased targets) and far less YAC.
D) He shut down opposing teams 3 fewer times than Gamble & Munnerlyn combined. (17 stops vs a combined 30 stops)
E) His longest reception given up is 23 yards lesser than that of Gambles.
F) Marshall gave up fewer touchdowns than Gamble with equal interceptions and only 3 fewer batted passes.
G) Quarterbacks, when targeting Marshall, averaged a QB rating that was 10.3 points below that of when targeting Gamble.
The only knock I see on Marshall is his run defense, which I’d imagine is where his size disadvantage shines the brightest.
I think Munnerlyn has a great career ahead of him, and I think Marshall has a great deal of improving to do. As far as Gamble goes, though, I don’t believe he’ll ever achieve that “shutdown” status we are paying him for.
I see your point D-Ranged1,
however, of your bullet points I see B, C, D, E, F and G all being attributable to Gamble working against team’s no.1 receivers vs. their no.2.
As a whole, look at the people they had to work against:
Gamble: DeSean Jackson, Roddy White x2, Roy Williams, Antonio Bryant x2, Santana Moss, Lee Evans, Larry Fitzgerald, Marques Colston x2, Braylon Edwards, Devon Bess, Randy Moss, Sidney Rice, Steve Smith
Marshall: Michael Jenkins x2, Jason Avant, Patrick Crayton, Sammy Stroughter x2, Robert Meachem x2, Tedd Ginn jr, Terrell Owens, Bertran Berrian, Mario Manningham, Jerricho Cotchery, Antwawn Randle-El, Anquan Boldin.
From my rudimentary tally I see 10 times that Chris Gamble was matched up against a true AAA receiver, and only two times Marshall saw the same caliber of player (and that’s being generous and including T.O)
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James Dator on Mar 29, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I definitely get what you’re saying, I still find it difficult to buy into it though. While I agree there’s a (down) shift in talent between the first and second CB position as far as the receiver they’re tasked with defending, I can’t decide which side of the fence I’m on. Does the No. 2 receiver benefit from facing a No. 2 cornerback, or vice-versa? Or do they simply cancel one another? Honestly, I like our CB depth with Gamble, Marshall, and Co. I was just looking at it from a “one or the other” perspective for the sake of discussion.
Also, for my own edu-ma-kay-shuns, was Gamble tasked with shadowing an opposing teams #1 receiver? While I’ve seen a few coverage logs where Marshall defended the opposing teams #1 receiver (occasionally throughout the game, not in its entirety), I haven’t seen enough to know if that was just an exception or the norm. I figure you’d probably have a better understanding of the situation than I.
Gamble doesn't automatically cover the #1 WR
Almost all the time, Gamble takes the left side of the defense, and whichever WR lines up opposite him, he covers.
In the second half of last season, it was Munnerlyn who covered the wide-out on the right side, with Marshall covering the slot man.
There’s no #1 vs #1 matchup with our defenders, as there might be with a team that plays a matchup man-to-man defense.
the argument about whether Gamble gets a pass because he covers the opponent’s #1 doesn’t factor in, IMO. ProFootballFocus makes every effort to grade each and every play for the relative success or failure of each player involved in it — and they explained to me that it many times comes down to a subjective evaluation, not entirely based on stats. For example: if a QB throws a completion for 40 yards, but it was a pass to the flat, in which the receiver broke 3 tackles, and got 38 yards after the catch — guess what? The Qb won’t grade high, but he WR or RB who made the play will grade high. Same can be said about CB’s. Marshall didn’t grade high because most of his tackles were after catches he allowed.
You make good points D-Ranged
Honestly I was surprised Marshall got the 2nd round tender. I thought overall he played well last season. When I look on the surface of his stats I don’t see a reason for the lower tender either. Hence I focused on the PFF stats since they seemed to support the prevailing evaluation of Marshall, that he is an average CB. I don’t want to lose Marshall nor do I want him to be unhappy in Charlotte but I’d also like to see him raise his game too.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Tender
A first round tender would have cost CP $2.198 million. The second round tender will cost $1.545 million. CP will save $653,000 in 2010 if Marshall doesn’t receive an offer. They obviously think they can replace him with someone in the 2nd round of this years draft if he were to get away and play 2010 with a rookie or Captain Crunch.
Here’s a list of CBs with late late 1st-3rd round grades:
4 Kareem Jackson CB Alabama 5-11 196
5 Patrick Robinson CB Florida State 5-11 190
6 Devin McCourty CB Rutgers 5-11 193
7 Chris Cook CB Virginia 6-2 212
8 Brandon Ghee CB Wake Forest 6-0 192
9 Akwasi Owusu-Ansah CB Indiana (PA) 6-0 207
0 Dominique Franks CB Oklahoma 5-11 194
Seeing the talent pool at that grade, I will agree they probably could. As I said above, Marshall is a solid CB but CP feels the same way Jaxon does, by offering a 2nd round tender they are saying “raise your game” .
I'm really psyched..
To see how Gamble, Marshall, and Munnerlyn perform with a years worth scheme experience under their belt. I think all three will see an improvement statistically, along with the rest of our D.
I’m just hoping we add Akwasi to that list.. The Flyin’ Fearsome Foursome. haha. I’m starting to feel AOA deserves the #3 pick over Norwood, with (hopefully) either Norwood or Navorro Bowman still available in the 4th… NFLDraftScout and WalterFootball completely disagree on where those two will go.
Okay lets not overreact to an unhappy player.
Marshall is a good corner, is he elite? No, but he could start for many teams. He is a little weak against the run, but he’s a small guy. He plays aggressive and gets called for it sometimes. And he can get overwhelmed by big receivers like Bryant and Edwards. But is that problem going to go away with Munnerlynn starting?
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
He's a 2nd round pick, 5 year vet
Being challenged by a 7th round rookie! That in itself should say something.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
I don't see Munnerlynn even remotely close to Marshall.
He didn’t even get a pick this year. And while I understand that picks to a DB are like sacks to a DE, you’d think if he was as good as we are advertising here he’d have at least one. I think some people are confusing “playing well” for “playing well for a seventh round pick”. Munnerlynn was great last season, relative to his draft slot. Had he been a first round pick, it would have been a meh season.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 31, 2010 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions
The Jets look like a less likely destination now
The link is to a March 4th article, since then they have acquired Antonio Cromartie.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Yeah, I know
Just a related article on the same subject. Linking to show some thought Marshall was great, others didnt.
Oh, gotcha
I’m sure there is interest. There is always interest. He is better than at least 1/3 of the league’s starting corners, regardless of what any stat sight might say. So, following that ratio, 10 maybe 11 teams would consider him an upgrade, so sure, there will be some inquires before April 16th.
Do or do not. There is no try.
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