Jake Delhomme: The Case for #17 in the Hall of Honor
by Flowing Willow on Mar 31, 2010 12:41 PM EDT
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After Jake Delhomme was cut and subsequently signed with the Browns, many wondered what Delhomme's legacy with Carolina would be. No question he deserves a special place in our hearts as fans, but what type of recognition should he get from the organization? I'm sure most of us can agree he likely will receive a spot in the Carolina Hall of Honor, along with Sam Mills, Mike McCormack, and the PSL owners, but should his number be retired? This post will look over the pros and cons of retiring #17. And hopefully when I finish, we will have a much clearer picture on the issue.
Delhomme's career with Carolina didn't really start off with a bang. When we brought him in in 2003, we were looking for a potential future QB, or someone to compete with current starter Rodney Peete. However, Delhomme couldn't win the starting job outright in training camp and preseason, and went into the season opener vs Jacksonville second string. However after a depressing first half by Rodney Peete, Delhomme came in, and immediately made his mark. Three scores later, including the winning one on 4th and 11 from the Jacksonville 12 to Ricky Proehl, and a Carolina legend was born.
Delhomme inspired the team and rallied them together, and they responded by rattling off five straight victories, including a thriller against Tampa Bay and a signature OT win over the powerhouse Indianapolis Colts. It wasn't always pretty for Delhomme that year, but he galvanized the team, and could be counted on to pull us through in the tough moments. Eight times that season he led us to the go ahead score in the fourth quarter and OT. And he showed his legendary ability to rebound. After an OT loss to the Michael Vick and the Falcons, where Delhomme's pick six in OT cost them the game, Delhomme responded by QBing the team to six straight wins en route to the Super Bowl.
I'm sure I don't have to remind any of you of that magical playoff run, but for the purpose of the article I'm going to list the accomplishments in brief. 29-10 victory to avenge an earlier loss to the Cowboys at home, 29-23 triple OT thriller in the Edward Jones Dome vs the Rams, 14-3 NFC Championship victory to amend an earlier loss to the Eagles. And of course the 32-29 loss to the Patriots, where Delhomme went throw for throw with Tom Brady. Delhomme's stats for that postseason run, 59 of 102 for 987 yards, 6 TD's, 1 INT, and a 106.1 QB rating. That's an astound 9.7 YPA!!! I can't find records for single season playoff performances, but I'm sure that ranks up with some of the best gunslingers of the past, like Marino, Montana, and Tarkenton.
I'm not going to go as in depth for Delhomme's subsequent seasons as I have 2003. But I believe they speak well for themselves. In his career as a Panther, Delhomme's numbers are as follows; cmp/att, yds, TD, INT, QB rating
2003: 266/449, 3219 yds, 19 TD, 16 INT, 80.6
2004: 310/533, 3886 yds, 29 TD, 15 INT, 87.3
2005: 262/445, 3421 yds, 24 TD, 16 INT, 88.1
2006: 263/431, 2805 yds, 17 TD, 11 INT, 82.6
2007: 55/86, 624 yds, 8 TD, 1 INT, 111.8
2008: 246/414, 3288, 15 TD, 12 INT, 84.7
2009: 178/321, 2015 yds, 8 TD, 18 INT, 59.4
So even if you include his awful 09 season, his numbers still add up to 1580/2679, 19258 yds, 120 TD, 89 INT, and a cmp pct% of 59% (couldn't figure out QB rating). Those numbers aren't stellar, but they aren't enough to keep his number from being retired. What really will make his case is his emotional impact as a QB. He was a born leader, and one of the best with the ball in his hand in the fourth quarter. His 33 fourth quarter TD's as of Sept 21, 2008, led every active QB in the league, including such legends as Brett Favre and Peyton Manning. Another thing going for him is the number 19, that's the amount of fourth quarter comebacks he has at minimum (people definition of a fourth quarter comeback differs, 19 is the bare minimum, whereas I think it could be around 25). He is the type of guy who when in charge of the offense you can never discount. He proved this in 2004, leading us to a 6-2 record after a 1-7 start. He made the Pro Bowl in 2005, and he was the one throwing the passes to Smith his Triple Crown year. Only three wideouts in history have achieved the Triple Crown, Jerry Rice, Sterling Sharpe, and Steve Smith. Rice and Sharpe had Montana and Elway throwing to them, so both Smith and Delhomme are in good company. He showed how valuable to the team he was in 06 and 07 when he missed time due to injury. And even in the death throes of his tenure here, he showed us why we still maintained trust in him.
So if you are a tl;dr person, let me sum it up for you here. Delhomme has been our most successful starting QB by far in every sense of the position. He has had an emotional impact similar to Sam Mills, and his numbers are respectable given his role in our offense. He has the career accolades and big-game success to give it serious consideration. And he has been our most important player for much of the past six years, whose arm we live or die by. In short, his number 17 deserves to be forever enshrined, dedicated to the memory of the man who has done so much for this franchise.
(btw I want to apologize if this seems a little late, I meant to wait a week to gain some perspective, and I ended up waiting a whole lot longer)
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Nice post Willow
I loved Jake and wish him the best. I think once he retires he should be considered for the Hall of Honor but I doubt the Panthers will place him there. JR seems to have a very high bar for that considering neither Minter nor Rucker were considered for it.
You brought back some good memories for sure Willow. I had forgotten about Smitty’s Triple Crown season, you have to give props to Jake for that.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
He spent all of today on the computer
Researching.:( :(
This sig is dedicated to those cut in the 2009 purge.
by chinchillas sword on Mar 27, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Minter.
He deserves it.
WOOT WOOT! Baseball's back!
by Figgi4life on Mar 27, 2010 2:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Minter was never as good as Delhomme among players in the league.
Never made a Pro Bowl like Jake did, and he also has no career stats that rank among all-time leaders. Many of Delhomme’s rate stats rank among the top 50 all-time, and he’s also in the top 100 for counting numbers.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 30, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
So you think the Panthers should put him in the Hall of Honor?
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Not my decision...
And, frankly, I really don’t care. They’ve proven so reluctant to honor our former players that I think the “honor” really tells far less than they did.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 31, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously I know its not your decision
Funny way to say “Yes”
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
You do have a point
Minter deserved to get in, one thing I found while researching was that he had a bigger impact than what I thought. I first became a fan in 05, when his skills weren’t getting any better. Having said that, Minter was still an awesome player, and Godfrey has some big shoes to fill with that number.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 28, 2010 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions
He also QB-ed Muhammad's ridiculous '04.
Led the league in yardage and TDs, 6th in catches.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 30, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
And therefore the QB gets the long-term glory, not the WR???
If that’s your case then Moose is shoo-in
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
It's certainly no coincidence...
When more than one WR has an elite season under one particular QB. Find me another QB who’s had two different receivers lead the league in yards and TDs with him throwing the ball.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 31, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Or it means
The QB had no one else to throw to, and teams didn’t respect the WR, If your QB correlation was so true, the top receiver every year would be from New England, New Orleans or Indianapolis.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
Where's the Rec's guys?
This is a good post!
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Rec'd
Absolutely, a great post
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Keep in mind we've never had a REALLY good QB on this team
So Jake is the best of some average QBs, and therefore he’s getting in the Hall of Honor? Do you think teams like the Steelers or Cowboys would even consider putting Jake in the Hall of Honor?
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
The best of some "average" QBs?
He’s got some of the best numbers of the hundreds of QBs who’ve played in the league…ever.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 31, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
You are drawing from a big pool now
I’ll give you that he might be in the top 200 ever…
http://armchairgm.wikia.com/The_100_Greatest_Quarterbacks_of_the_Modern_Era,_Version_1.0
But its still not a good argument to retire his number.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
While his numbers may have been only better than average
he’s not getting in on the strength of those. It’s his emotional impact on the team, it’s easily comparable to Sam Mills, who only played here three years. In that he trumps nearly every past Panther.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Apr 1, 2010 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Mills? That's taking it a little far.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
Is it really?
Did Mills take us to a Super Bowl? Mills was to the defense what Delhomme was to the offense. Mills gave us “Keep Pounding”, Delhomme gave us the Cardiac Cats as we know them. And statwise Delhomme is superior to Mills, so the comparison is fair. Mills is in the HOH, why not Delhomme?
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Apr 2, 2010 3:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Think about it...
I think you might should go back and look at why Mills is there…Keep Pounding had nothing to do with what Mills did on the field. Mills was honored by the team due to being a player and eventually a coach whose time was shortened by cancer. Mills was the heart and soul of this team and a person the city and team rallied around during his battle with cancer while still serving as the LB coach. Here is an excerpt about it from Wiki:
Mills was diagnosed with intestinal cancer in August 2003. Though he was told he had only a few months to live, he underwent chemotherapy and radiation and continued to coach. He was an inspirational force in the Panthers’ post-season run to Super Bowl XXXVIII. His plea to “Keep Pounding” in an emotional speech before the Panthers’ victory over the Dallas Cowboys later became the name of a fund to sponsor cancer research programs. Mills died at his home in Charlotte, North Carolina on the morning of April 18, 2005. He was 45.
Mills’ number 51 was retired by the Panthers at the start of the 2005 NFL season. The home field of the Montclair State University Red Hawks was named Sam Mills Stadium in his honor. Mills was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame in 2009. His son Sam Mills III holds the position of Quality Control – Defense for the Carolina Panthers.
I think you should know why someone is in the Hall of Honor before you begin comparing Jake to him “stat wise”.
However....
He was inducted before all of that, inducted in 1997…but I still stand behind the fact that Sam Mills meant more to this team and City than Jake. Mills was the inspiration behind this team at it’s inception. He was the only player to start every game the first 3 years of the franchise and his interception against Dallas won us our first playoff game (and began the 15 year drought for the Cowgirls).
Mills only played for us three years
But in those three years he made plenty of impact plays. Delhomme was the same way. And both inspired us to the Super Bowl. I’m not dissing Mills, I’m saying Delhomme is comparable to him.
Although now that I think about it some could take that as an insult.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Apr 3, 2010 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice post.
Ol Jake, he was an absolute beast. I do hope that he gets put in the Hall of Honor. I know that Moose will be there, and Steve Smith will probably be there. Jake better be there too, or who else will pass to them in the afterlife?
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Enjoyable Post.
In 2005 I was 15 and I asked for a Panthers jersey for Christmas because I hadn’t one yet even though I’d been a fan for awhile. I thought I wanted a Peppers jersey because he went to UNC, my favourite school, but I was given a Delhomme jersey and immediately I knew that it was the right choice. I wore it for the next few days straight including the blowout game against the Falcons that clinched us a playoff berth that year. Ever since then, Jake has grown to become to my favourite Panther to my favourite Panther of all-time to my favourite athlete of all-time. I cannot explain why, his personality and his leadership and his fire on the field and his accent maybe contributed to this.
But now that he is gone and with the Browns I find myself reading up on the Browns and hoping they do well next year. I’ve been a fan of sports for many an autumn and throughout players come and go from favourite teams but never had I followed those players to their next teams with more than a passing interest. Jake is an exception.
I feel like since I’m thinking this and writing this I can’t be the only one who was affected by Jake this much. Therefore he deserves his place among the honourable Panthers of all-time.
Guess class is canceled for this hour
so here I come to talk Joe Mauer
can't retire his number
i mean, technically they could, but they won’t. most teams have more players in the HoF than they have numbers retired. Gale Sayers and Dick Butkus don’t even have their numbers retired by the Bears (although I heard no one has worn those numbers since, but they are still not officially retired). Jake was the most successful QB we ever had. I thought Beuerlein was a better QB, but he had a losing record with us, and some idiot thought Weinke would do better.
After Jake was cut I called for his number to be retired, however, this was an emotional response.
The Panthers have such a high bar for retiring a jersey that I don’t think Jake numbers cut it.
I think the next time we’ll see another retired number it will be John Kasay.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
Kasay is a real possibility
You made me think though…Pep might have been the first drafted Panther good enough and with a great enough career to make the Hall of Honor if he didn’t leave. But he’ll never make that distinction in Chicago. I just find it ironic that he was in search of history instead of making here in Carolina. Sad…
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
I agree
When it’s all said and done, however, I fully believe Jon Beason will have a better overall career than Peppers.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
That's also why I waited a while
To be more objective. However that’s nearly impossible with Jake, and that’s why I think his number should be retired. Whether or not JR will is another matter.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 28, 2010 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions
If Matt Moore (or whoevers next) turned out to be a Star QB
Then we’d look foolish for having jumped so quick to retire Jake’s
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
+1
that’s why I voted no.
don’t get me wrong Jake is the best QB this team has ever had and for all my frustration with his “bad jake” days I believed the man would pull through every Sunday. But if he represents the best this team will ever have then well Sunday’s wont mean quite so much. Because the quality of the cast around him last season was too great to put up the numbers he had and Matt Moore proved that.
Hall of Honor sure he gave us our 1st Super Bowl birth, played in the pro bowl, gave us edge of our seat thrilling come backs, and made Smith a house hold name. But his meltdowns in Seattle and against Arizona and his inability to look to anyone but his number one receiver kept the team from being a contender every year he was healthy and that’s why someone else should have the opprotunity to do great in #17
"I kinda just sling it" -Jake
by bleed_in_blue on Mar 31, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Not necessarily.
Moore’s accomplishments will have nothing to do with whether or not Jake makes the Hall. We have to judge Jake on his impact on our franchise, which was significant. More than such studs like Peppers or Jenkins, and more than our most renowned player, Sam Mills.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Apr 1, 2010 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Never knew that...
Had no clue he had that many late TD’s and game winners. I’ve said for years to anyone who would listen that Jake didnt have the ability to win a game but certainly had the ability to lose one.
Guess I was wrong.
You sure were.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 31, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
List
I actually would like to see a list of who is on it already. Also, even though Jake made the mistake of playing past his prime in Charlotte, he still was our best QB overall to this point. I like Moose but if you think Moose should be on the list then Jake has to be there also. One other thought “MAN DOES THIS PART OF THE YEAR SUCK”.
Sam Mills
He’s the only player inducted thus far into the Hall of Honor. GM Mike McCormack was also inducted, along with the PSL Owners (permanent seat license i.e. season ticket holders)
Well at least you corrected yourself before someone could zing you!
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Most of Moose's stats have or will soon already be trumped by Smitty
Steve’s had the kind of career where you CONSIDER putting him in. But not Jake or Moose. That’s cheap… It’s like telling the first girl you ever kissed, that you want to be with her forever. Give it time, there’s someone better right around the corner ;)
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
If that were true...
Kerry Collins and Mark Carrier would be there. But they’re not, because they weren’t very good as Panthers. Delhomme and Moore have.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 31, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Muhsin Muhammad, Wesley Walls, Mike Minter, John Kasay
I think you could make a case for all these guys.
Sheesh, there are only 3 in 15 years. Let’s put some guys in there.
I think Kasay may be included at some point
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
I can agree with Mr Original
But these other guys would not be considered on other teams. Why are we selling ourselves so short?
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
Great post!
I was one of those who was ready to see Jake hang it up. I loved watching him play (except for last couple seasons). I don’t know what criteria are used to decide if a guy should be in the HoH, but off hand I would use stats as well as using the fan base and prior teammates’ opinions. He was the man in Charlotte – he was (as the quote goes) #17 in our program but #1 in our hearts. But that’s just me.
I voted Yes
FW has made a good case using the numbers. But, I have to say that with Jake, you have to look beyond the numbers and take into consideration the intangibles that he brought to the table.
I also feel that as part of the Panthers organization and as part of the community he has done so much that cannot be ignored. Perhaps some of you don’t feel that this should be a factor, but I think the it would be a strong message to send out to young people as well.
Something else to think about
Here’s a list of all the NFL Jerseys that have been retired. You can take a look at each organization and look at the accomplishments of all the players they felt warranted having their jersey retired. For the most part, the list contains the truely elite players that have played the game.
AFC
Baltimore (Ravens) None
Buffalo Jim Kelly 12
Cincinnati Bob Johnson 54
Cleveland (Browns) Otto Graham 14
Jim Brown 32
Ernie Davis 45
Don Fleming 46
Lou Groza 76
Denver John Elway 7
Frank Tripucka 18
Floyd Little 44
Houston None
Indianapolis/Baltimore (Colts) Johnny Unitas 19
Buddy Young 22
Lenny Moore 24
Art Donovan 70
Jim Parker 77
Raymond Berry 82
Gino Marchetti 89
Jacksonville None
Kansas City Jan Stenerud 3
Len Dawson 16
Abner Haynes 28
Stone Johnson 33
Mack Lee Hill 36
Willie Lanier 63
Bobby Bell 78
Buck Buchanan 86
Miami Bob Griese 12
Dan Marino 13
Larry Csonka 39
New England Bruce Armstrong 78
Gino Cappelletti 20
Mike Haynes 40
Steve Nelson 57
John Hannah 73
Jim Hunt 79
Bob Dee 89
New York Jets Joe Klecko 73
Joe Namath 12
Don Maynard 13
Oakland None
Pittsburgh Ernie Stautner 70
San Diego Dan Fouts 14
Tennessee (Houston Oilers) Earl Campbell 34
Bruce Matthews 74
Jim Norton 43
Mike Munchak 63
Elvin Bethea 65
NFC
Arizona/St. Louis (Cardinals) Larry Wilson 8
Patt Tillman 40
Stan Mauldin 77
J.V. Cain 88
Marshall Goldberg 99
Atlanta Steve Bartowski 10
William Andrews 31
Jeff Van Note 57
Tommy Nobis 60
Carolina Sam Mills 51
Chicago Bronko Nagurski 3
George McAfee 5
George Halas 7
Willie Galimore 28
Walter Payton 34
Gale Sayers 40
Brian Piccolo 41
Sid Luckman 42
Dick Butkus 51
Bill Hewitt 56
Bill George 61
Clyde “Bulldog” Turner 66
Red Grange 77
Dallas None
Detroit Dutch Clark 7
Bobby Layne 22
Doak Walker 37
Joe Schmidt 56
Chuck Hughes 85
Green Bay Tony Canadeo 3
Don Hutson 14
Bart Starr 15
Ray Nitschke 66
Reggie White 92
Minnesota Fran Tarkenton 10
Cris Carter 80
Mick Tingelhoff 53
Jim Marshall 70
Korey Stringer 77
Alan Page 88
New Orleans Jim Taylor 31
Doug Atkins 81
New York Giants Ray Flaherty 1
Tuffy Leemans 4
Mel Hein 7
Phil Simms 11
Y.A. Tittle 14
Frank Gifford 16
Al Blozis 32
Joe Morrison 40
Charlie Conerly 42
Ken Strong 50
Lawrence Taylor 56
Philadelphia Steve Van Buren 15
Tom Brookshier 40
Pete Retzlaff 44
Chuck Bednarik 60
Al Wistert 70
Jerome Brown 99
Reggie White 92
St. Louis/Los Angeles/Cleveland (Rams) Bob Waterfield 7
Marshall Faulk 28
Eric Dickerson 29
Merlin Olsen 74
Jackie Slater 78
Jack Youngblood 85
San Francisco John Brodie 12
Joe Montana 16
Joe Perry 34
Jimmy Johnson 37
Hugh McElhenny 39
Charlie Krueger 70
Leo Nomellini 73
Bob St. Clair 79
Dwight Clark 87
Seattle “Fans/the twelfth man” 12
Steve Largent 80
Tampa Bay Lee Roy Selmon 63
Washington Sammy Baugh 33
I agree Jake has probably been the best QB the team’s had and was a vocal leader of the team. He got the team back to the playoffs and to a Super Bowl. But I wouldnt put him in the class of player that deserve’s a retired jersey. He never won a Super Bowl, was only a 7 year starter, if you take out the 2004 and 2005 seasons, along with the incredible 2007 start before the injury, his numbers were mediocre at best.
It’s just my feeling, when you say someone had their number retired, to my mind that means that player was elite, a truely remarkable player. One who’s accomplishments cant be questioned. The player about whom you can ask anyone across the country and they will say, yeah, he was great. I just don’t get that feeling about Jake.
I think he should be inducted into the Hall of Honor, but retiring his jersey is a no in my opinion.
Sorry this was so long.
To add to Sniff's information...
Part of the reason the NFL doesn’t retire as many jerseys is because of the league’s number rule, which states that certain positions can only wear certain numbers (eg – QB’s can only wear 1-19) If a team retires too many numbers, then future players won’t have any numbers to choose from, or the league would have to change the rule (which is stupid, IMO, but a rule’s a rule).
I agree with Sniff’s assessment of Jake – he was good, and arguably the best QB the franchise has ever had, but I don’t think “yes – he definitely deserves to have his number retired because he was one of the league’s elite” when Jake comes up in a conversation about QB’s.
As long as the Panthers don't trade for Michael Vick or draft Tim Tebow, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
Oakland - NONE?? Dallas - NONE??
Different teams have different standards, as they should. But that means the standards of the Panthers should, and are, high.
It’s a special honor, for very special achievement.
The Raiders don't retire numbers at all...
Per their Wikipedia page:
The Raider organization does not retire the jersey numbers of former players on an official or unofficial basis.
The article goes on to say that the only number to be “retired” is 00, and that’s only because it’s no longer allowed by the league. On a side note I do find it mildly humorous that Jim Otto wore #00 (aught-oh) during his career.
As long as the Panthers don't trade for Michael Vick or draft Tim Tebow, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
The Cowboys don't either...
I meant to put this in here too, but Dallas holds the same policy as Oakland. Dallas’ Wikipedia page:
Unlike many NFL teams, the Cowboys do not retire jersey numbers of past standouts as a matter of policy.
The Cowboys do have a Ring of Honor though.
As long as the Panthers don't trade for Michael Vick or draft Tim Tebow, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
I agree...
Can’t imagine all the time I’ll spending talking with my kids about Leo Nomellini and Buddy Young. Greats, all time.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 31, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Retiring jerseys should be reserved for legendary players.
Jake Delhomme, although the face of our franchise and QB for 7 years, is no legend.
He's a Carolina legend.
For the “Carolina” Hall of Honor.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Apr 1, 2010 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions
You can't retire a guy for emotional reasons
What really will make his case is his emotional impact as a QB
Only 2 Championships NO Superbowl ring, OK stats… But were going to retire him just because he had a feisty personality? Maybe if that emotional impact resulted in Superbowl win(s). But this is crazy talk… Any team with a little history would make a mockery of us for considering this.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
I agree with the dude here...
Maybe they can name a street near the stadium after him or something (The Pick 6 Expressway perhaps – just kidding). But retiring his jersey just because we all liked him doesn’t cut it.
As long as the Panthers don't trade for Michael Vick or draft Tim Tebow, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
Then what did Mills do?
He was better as a Saint than a Panther.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 31, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
You know very well
That what Mills and this team went through was a much bigger deal than just being a good leader
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
by ElBacano on Apr 1, 2010 11:22 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The poll backs it up too
If you are talking about retiring a jersey, it should damn near be a unanimous decision to do so. At the time of my writing this message only 53% of people are in favor of retiring his jersey. That isn’t enough.
I voted no....
and that is for retireing the number, face it he’s the best we’ve had but in the grand scheme he was not “one of the greats.” I do think that Jake has one more contract to sign in a year or two with the Panthers for a single day to retire a Panther. He may make the Hall of Honor but retireing his number would be a travesty. There are 3 maybe 4 active QBs in the league that should even be discussed for number retirement….Brady, Manning, Farve, Warner….and with a few more strong years maybe Brees.
I hope Jake stays miles away.
For as shitty as this fanbase as been to him, why would he ever want to come back?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 31, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
You are such a brat
This has gotten to the point of absurdity- WE GET IT!
I’m sure you would have given every fan in attendance a scolding when they booed Rodney Peete off the field, thus giving Delhomme his chance, right?
Jake was awesome, everyone agrees that he did great things for the franchise, but you can’t seem to wrap your head around the idea that he was fading.
And your signature is annoying and lame. For as much as you get riled up about people hating on Delhomme, you sure posit a ton of negativity yourself.
by the bomb dot com on Mar 31, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What about Smitty then?
Say he decided to hang it up early? Would you guys retire 89 from what he’s done thus far? He’s aging, so his best is prob behind him. I don’t predict any more 2005’s. But I tend to want to think he’s the one Panther that should be the most likely.
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
he and...
John Kasey are the only 2 on the team as of right now that I would say have a shot at having their numbers retired….now with D. Williams, J. Beason, J. Gross and others there is the potential for others to join that list depending on their future performance…but Smitty has proven even with a lack luster supporting cast at times that he is one of the best there is.
Which cast is that?
Delhomme took the team to a conference championship…without Smith.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 31, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
What are you talking about?
What championship are you talking about?
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
by ElBacano on Apr 1, 2010 11:27 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Maybe he was confused and was talking about Madden '10
As long as the Panthers don't trade for Michael Vick or draft Tim Tebow, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
I'm a little confused too Procton
If you’re referring to 2004 when Smith broke his leg the Panthers went 7-9 that season.
In both 2003 and 2005 when the Panthers went to the NFC Championship game Steve Smith was present both occasions.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
I think you caught him not fact-checking his bias
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
WHAT?!? Making an argument contrary to facts?
This is not possible. Not at all.
As long as the Panthers don't trade for Michael Vick or draft Tim Tebow, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
He’s got some of the best numbers of the hundreds of QBs who’ve played in the league…ever.
This is the one I like the best. He’s one of the best ever but he’s actually statistically inferior to Steve Beuerlein.
Jake Delhomme 2003-2009 2,669 1,580 19,258 59.2 120 89 82.6
teve Beuerlein 1996-2000 1,723 1,041 12,690 60.4 86 50 87.7
Just because Jake took the Panthers to a Superbowl, I’d consider him the best QB. But as far as numbers, he’s 2nd on a 15 year old franchise.
A proctologist is a medical professional who specializes in diseases of the colon, rectum, and anus. The word is a compound of two Greek words, Procton, which translates to asshole, or behind or rear quarters, and logy, for the study of.
Really?
I see a better QB rating, but less TD’s, less yards, and less WINS.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Apr 3, 2010 7:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Beuerlein had a better completion rate, TD/INT ratio, QB rating. Its hard to get more yards and TD’s in less seasons. And if you look at the personnel, Jake had alot more to work with.
Proctology is a medical profession that specializes in diseases of the colon, rectum, and anus. Law professors call them asses.
Aren't you guys comparing 2 Average QB's, to determine which is the better of the two?
Neither stacks up as anything but average, when their stats and results are compared to all who’ve lined up under C.
Jake, as was Mills, was an Inspirational leader on the Panthers, but his results don’t qualify him, IMO, to any Honor.
Actually
Mr. Procton said that Jake had some of the best numbers of the hundreds of QB’s to ever play. I was just using someone from the same franchise to show, comparably, his numbers arent really that good.
Not sure why Flowing Willow jumped in, unless it was to point out that Beuerlein should have had more yards/TD’s/WINS in 57 games than Delhomme had in 91.
Proctology is a medical profession that specializes in diseases of the colon, rectum, and anus. Law professors call them asses.
I "jumped on you" because you said Delhomme was second
When clearly Delhomme had better numbers. You can’t say Beaurlein was better because he played less years in a more pass friendly offense.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Apr 4, 2010 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Is that what that was?
I thought a gnat jumped on me. Didn’t realize that was you.
“jumped in”, is what I said, as in, jumped in the thread. It’s obvious if you just look at the numbers, Beuerleins were better.
Proctology is a medical profession that specializes in diseases of the colon, rectum, and anus. Law professors call them asses.
oops, my bad.
I think I have dyslexia, sometimes I don’t fully read through a sentence.
Agree to disagree.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Apr 4, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Lack Luster Cast....
Specifically Delhomme and the carousel of pitiful receivers that have cycled through here over the past 6 years. Yes Moose has been consistent but hasn’t truly been a threat due to the fact that Delhomme has been tunnel visioned in Smiths direction since he returned from the Bears. No true threat at the TE position and no slot receiver…Heck now that I think about it maybe Smitty doesn’t even really deserve it since he was the only one getting thrown too….NAH he’s that good.
Great Read
I don’t know if they should retire his #17 or not, he was the first Franchise QB, he did take the Panthers to their first ever Super Bowl, that is a one time thing, so there’s def. a case for it, I wouldn’t mind seeing a retired Hoover Jersey.
Now wait a minute...
There’s a difference between acknowledging Delhomme’s play has declined and honoring his Panther career. Though I hated to see him leave I agree it had to be done. MP still believes Delhomme is a starting caliber QB and should be the Panthers starter. The Browns believe it too obviously and I bet he does win some games for them.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Yeah but...
Jamarcus Russel did win some games for the Raiders….he ain’t leading them to the playoffs anytime soon. I do think Jake has a place in the heart of every Panther fan, whether he made your heart beat fast during a 4th quarter comeback or made it stop with a late interception, we did know one thing…Jake gave us everything he had every time he put on the uniform, sad to say, that’s just not good enough anymore. I’m all for giving Jake credit but it doesn’t mean I want to retire his jersey or put him in the hall of honor for that matter.
So when a guy in this day and age gives everything he has for a team
it’s not enough???? Then what the heck is?
(BTW, I don’t mean to sound rude, so please don’t take it that way.)
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Apr 3, 2010 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions
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