Panthers taking a look a Tony Pike
Along with Broncos and Pats.
5 months ago
JC_GSO
93 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Pike really hurt his stock at the combine
Most mocks now have him as a 4th or 5th round pick. For my money, I care more about what I see from a prospect on Saturdays than what they do in a dome for one week.
If he truly falls to the 4t or 5th round he’s an absolute steal.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 21, 2010 10:03 AM EDT reply actions
Agree.
I’ve been hoping he would draft him all year long, though I thought it would be a 2nd round pick. If we could get him in the 4th or 5th, I’d crap my pants in excitement.
Tony Pike was also one of the only guys that actually THREW at the combine.
If you ask me, that should have helped his draft stock more than anything. In my mind, if you don’t throw at the combine, then you aren’t worth a 1st round grade. It makes me sick to see all of these guys get away with not doing it and still get picked early.
Then teams wonder why they bust so easily.
"Once again the trousers of evil are yanked down by the mocking hands of justice!"-Revshawn
Most top QB's do not throw at the combine though.
I agree with their side. The passing game is very tricky with timing and feel for certain players. They are going to throw at there Pro Day anyway, so why should they throw at the combine?
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Mar 21, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I like this guy
but cringe at the thought of spending a 3rd rounder on him just so he can sit. But I guess most of our draft picks will sit for a least season outside of a D-lineman. Carolina has to be more attractive than New England though:
He has a good arm and good pocket presence, but his leadership is questioned and that might equate to an adjustment period in the NFL where coaches don’t want to gamble with him as a starter right away. He’s not on the same level as guys like Colt McCoy and Sam Bradford, but expect a third round destination for Tony Pike. Learn and grow in New England, play sooner in Carolina. Take your pick.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Injuries and lack of leadership is a concern to me.
I’m not really sure one way or the other with this guy. I have not watched him much to have an educated argument. What I will say is that I would not draft a QB just to draft a guy b/c of supposed value. I think there are so many things that make a good QB and the position is the most important on the field that if the FO does not believe in him, then don’t waste the time, money or draft pick.
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Mar 21, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Draft picks don't just sit.
At the vast majority of positions, they contribute on special teams at the very least. At QB, that’s rarely (if ever) possible. And I don’t think there’s much of any situation where Pike is going to compete, much less get the opportunity to “start right away.”
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 22, 2010 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions
"Private Workouts"
I think it is most interesting that he had a “PRIVATE” workout with these three teams…that indicates that the Panthers are VERY interested in him! Enough interest at least to sacrifice the resources and time for a private and intimate session with Tony Pike…
Now, we can add Pike to the list of QBs with known interest from the Panthers – Tebow and Armanti Edwards…which gives us a little more knowledge about who the Panthers might really pick depending on whos available when…
Don't they always try to look interested in guys that they don't plan on picking?
To make their real picks look less obvious and hopefully slip?
Otherwise known as SouthTunnel. Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine.
by ElBacano on Mar 21, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is partly true imo.
Having a private workout does not mean the team is “VERY interested.” It means they are doing their due diligence at a position of need. Nothing more.
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Mar 21, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, that's been a pattern.
We’ve more often been linked to guys that we didn’t pick than guys we ultimately did.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 22, 2010 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes...like last year
I was thinking “Sherrod who?”
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Is it me, or does Troy pump out NFL guys like, well, I'll skip the similie there.
Do or do not. There is no try.
I'm thinking this is a smokescreen
Pike is a good talent, and I wish him well, but he lacks two things absolutely necessary for a Carolina QB. Leadership and arm strength.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
That's also why I think Tebow and Edwards are very good bets for our pick
They can contribute in other areas, and they have those two attributes.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 22, 2010 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Re Tebow...
So, the fact that he’s never ran anything other than a spread “make one read then tuck and run” offense from the shotgun, struggles to take snaps under center, and has to completely restructure the way he throws the football doesn’t tell you that he’s not a good pick for us when we have so many other needs in so many other areas?
We don’t need “leaders” just for the sake of having leaders – we need football players who are good at what they do, and Tebow is not a good quarterback.
I know a lot of people want him because he’s the best thing since sliced bread (according to ESPN, anyway), but we need depth on the defensive line and a receiver before we would even think of drafting Tebow, and to be honest I would rather take Armanti in the 6th-7th round than waste a 3rd-4th rounder on Tebow.
P.S. I’m not trying to come across as a pompus ass, I just don’t understand why we even need to entertain the thought of Tim Tebow.
As long as the Panthers don't trade for Michael Vick or draft Tim Tebow, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
by bwsmith25 on Mar 22, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Re Tebow...
He is a project, but in the third he is tremendous value. You don’t often get potential franchise QB’s that late. He hasn’t run anything other than the spread, and that is a disadvantage, but he has a strong arm and is accurate when his mechanics are correct. He isn’t a product of the system so to speak. His work ethic will allow him to transition more smoothly than say Alex Smith. Taking snaps under center isn’t a knock, you can learn that easily with repetition. And while he does have to restructure his throw, he’s willing to do that, what does that say about him? Some guys would say, “You can go jump off of a cliff, I’m the SEC’s all time leader in TD’s with this throwing motion, it works for me.” Also his restructured motion itself looks good, if he can commit it to muscle memory, which I’m sure is possible given his desire, we have a very good QB prospect on hand. Edwards has the arm, accuracy, intangibles, and mobility. But to be honest, his size will make it very hard for him to compete. Tebow has the arm, intangibles, mobility, and size. And I’ve seen glimpses of his accuracy, enough for me to say he will be a successful QB.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 23, 2010 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I respectfully disagree...
But I think both of us would talk each other in circles and accomplish nothing, so I think we may need to just agree to disagree on Tebow.
And if for some reason we do draft him, I hope you’re right about his potential success.
As long as the Panthers don't trade for Michael Vick or draft Tim Tebow, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
Agreed.
On both counts. :)
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 24, 2010 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions
He's not a "potential franchise QB" by any means.
No more than Randy Fasani or Stephen LeFors were. And you’re certainly right, he could tell scouts to jump off a cliff. He just wouldn’t get drafted anywhere near as high or be taken anywhere near as seriously as a prospect. Desire doesn’t build players. Ability does, and as an NFL QB, Tebow doesn’t have it.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 23, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Tell Jamarcus Russell desire doesn't build players
Dude has all the physical talent in the world, but what good has it done him. If Tebow were this talentless bum, then you would be right, desire couldn’t make up in full for his lack of talent. But Tebow does have plenty of talent. He has a strong arm, a good deep ball, great mobility, and he has leadership and a drive to succeed. His work ethic is comparable to Peyton Manning’s. The only thing Tebow lacks as an NFL QB right now is experience. Experience to test his motion and mechanics, and experience in reading a pro defense. No question, he needs plenty of experience, but in three years, maximum, you’ll see his true talent come out.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 24, 2010 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Tell Randy Fasani that desire builds players.
Guy worked as hard as anybody else. There are plenty who thought Russell would flop in the NFL because of his ability, not his desire.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 24, 2010 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Tell Randy Fasani you need some measure of talent
And luck, this may not have been the right situation for him.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 25, 2010 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Fasani had plenty of talent.
He was considered the top high school QB in his class and made All-Pac 10 at QB by his senior year having played tight end and MLB earlier in his career. You don’t do those things without “some measure of talent.”
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 25, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh jeez top ten high school
I bow to the wonder of Randy Fasani.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 26, 2010 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Who ever said Moore had no "measure of talent?"
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 26, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Not top ten.
#1.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 26, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
My point stands.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 27, 2010 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Edwards has the same offensive system issues
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 23, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
This.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 23, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm wondering...
How exactly do we know about any of these guys’ leadership abilities, Moore included?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 22, 2010 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, unless you're on the field or in the locker room, you can't say for sure
But being vocal on the field is a good indicator. If the teams camraderie is good between certain players, then that’s a nice indicator. Interviews can also give you a good idea of a players attitude and outlook. There’s no one thing, it’s a sum of the parts.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 22, 2010 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
I’ve always wondered this myself. I guess we just have to go on the word of the other fellas on the field and in the locker room. Which creates a problem – how often does a teammate come out and say “he’s a horrible leader”? Is the indicator a lack of teammates/coaches talking about his leadership? I’ve always heard that on the field for the QB, a measuring stick is does he take command of the huddle? Then again, it’s based on what the guys on the field say.
by The Duke Dude on Mar 22, 2010 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions
On the issue of leadership:
I believe there are several indicators with a college player that can help you identify their leadership characteristics, and more often than not it goes hand-in-hand with confidence. Honestly, I would use Jake Delhomme as the yardstick because he was such a fantastic leader.
1. Can the QB effectively and confidently communicate the desires of the OC in the huddle?
2. Does the QB noticeably communicate with fellow players on the sideline to formulate strategies/talk over tendencies?
3. Has the QB demonstrated any ability to rally his teammates during adversity and re-establish confidence?
These are three areas that I did not see Tony Pike display at Cincinnati, but that doesn’t mean they’re not there. Just as we haven’t seen #3 from Matt Moore, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t possess that quality, it just means he hasn’t had the opportunity where he needed to display that characteristic.
Leadership comes naturally to some, and takes time for others. There are quarterbacks in the league who have immense amounts of physical talent and innate talent, but lack leadership characteristic (see Cutler, Jay and Palmer, Carson). Conversely there are QBs like Delhomme who lack some of that innate talent but make up for it in the leadership role.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 22, 2010 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Ahhh
Good observations. Particularly #1. Thanks for the thoughts.
by The Duke Dude on Mar 22, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
#3 was never demonstarted by Delhomme...
…until he got the chance to show it. Then he did.
Moore will get his chance in 2010. For, mark my words, there WILL be a game or maybe 2 that we WON’T be holding a big lead midway through the 4th quarter.
Not true.
Delhomme was known as far back as college (Brandon Stokely’s on record with this), his NFL Europe years (Kurt Warner has talked about this), and his Saints #3 days as a great leader whom his teammates always believed in.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 23, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Jon Beason said it about Peppers.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 23, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
from cold hard football facts
The truth is that Tebow is easily the best passer in SEC history, and superior in every way, shape and form to any of the recent No. 1 picks to come out of the SEC, even the Chosen One, Peyton Manning.
Among this list of six SEC quarterbacks, it’s NO contest:
* Tebow was No. 1 in accuracy (67.11%); Couch was No. 2 (66.96%)
* Tebow was No. 1 in average per attempt (9.43); Russell was a distant No. 2 (8.31)
* Tebow was No. 1 in TD percentage (8.9%); Peyton Manning was a distant No. 2 (6.6%)
* Tebow was No. 1 in INT percentage (1.5%); Eli Manning was a distant No. 2 (2.6%)
* Tebow was No. 1 in passer rating* (120.7); Peyton Manning was a distant No. 2 (100.9)
Do NFL teams know something we don’t? Of course not. Remember: these are the same guys who made Couch, Russell, David Carr and Alex Smith the No. 1 pick in the draft in recent years, too.
So you can trust them, or you can trust Uncle CHFF to set you straight on the Tebow issue.
Good stats Usana
I guess we will see whether Tebow follows the Manning path or the other two on that list.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
YAC
Tebow, by design of Urban Meyer’s offense, and with the help of supreme athletes to throw the ball to, was helped tremendously by yards-after-catch. I can’t think of a weapon Tebow had who wasn’t supremely good at picking up yards after the catch.
How many successful QBs has Meyer put in the NFL?
Do or do not. There is no try.
by ERL on Mar 23, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
THIS.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 23, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
As long as the Panthers don't trade for Michael Vick or draft Tim Tebow, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
Jim Tedford didn't have a successful starting QB to his name when Aaron Rodgers came out.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 24, 2010 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Who?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 24, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
The Cal head coach. I think his name is actually Jeff Tedford.
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Mar 24, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Wikipedia says you are correct sir.
Though I’m sure MP knew that. He just wanted to point out the differences of ‘Eff’ and ‘Im’.
lol, yeah my bad
Jim and Jeff are pretty close though, so I do have a defense. ;)
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 25, 2010 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions
He was also playing in a great offensive system with superior talent on his offense.
Look at all the skill position players the Gators have pumped out the last few years (not to mention the linemen), and it’s obvious that any competent QB would have done a solid job. What do Alex Smith’s numbers look like?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 23, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
funny
tebow hate is funny to me. how many qbs coming out of college have actually played in a pro style offense? every qb has a learning curve, and it is the desire and determination to improve that sets winners apart from losers. you can’t name one qb who ever had more ability than michael vick. he chose not to practice and he made dumb decisions. his failure to this point is based on his attitude, not his ability. there is no substitute for hard work. tebow will be great because he has chosen to do what is necessary to be great. he may not be ready day one, but very few qbs ever have been. he’ll be drafted in the first 40 picks, and buy a team that doesn’t need him to start in 2010. realistically, with a lock-out, he might not start until 2012.
i think he will prove all naysayers wrong, the same way jake proved his man-crush fans wrong by losing and getting cut. however, i also believe in matt moore being our starter over the next 10 years, and we don’t need tebow. moore is that good, and i can’t wait for him to prove his haters wrong.
as for the tebow haters, well, i repeat, we probably won’t see him start for a couple years anyway. by then, all these arguments will be old and forgotten.
It's terms like 'Tebow hate' that annoy me more than anything else.
More power to the people who like and support Tim Tebow, but I don’t see why Tim Tebow should get any preferential treatment?
He’s not being singled out. The same discussions people are having about Tebow can be found regarding Armanti Edwards, Tony Pike, Jimmy Clausen or Colt McCoy. They’re the same discussions people had last year about Mark Sanchez or Graham Harrell. You’re right, these discussions will be forgotten in a year or two… but such is the nature of prognostication.
how many qbs coming out of college have actually played in a pro style offense?
None, but how many NFL teams run a strictly NCAA offense like the spread?
Tebow is a hard worker, no doubt… but his work ethic is being crammed down our throats by his aggressive PR team. Yes, Mike Vick wasn’t a hard worker, but it’s not like Tim Tebow is doing something no other player in the draft is doing. They’re all working hard to prepare for their pro days. Dan LeFevour is doing almost identical prep to Tebow working on his mechanics, but he’s not plastered all over ESPN and having media cover his ‘coming out party’ to unveil his new motion.
Tim Tebow is an extraordinary person, and will be a fantastic ambassador for the NFL because he’s an amazingly high character guy. However, just because people question his abilities I don’t think it’s right to label them as ‘Tebow haters’. He’s a player and will be drafted just like another 223 guys will be drafted in April.
Every year the draft needs a ‘story’ an indelible player who’s personal journey makes for great TV. Last year it was Michael Oher, this year it’s going to be Tim Tebow. I don’t think it’s wrong to be impressed with those personal stories, but unimpressed by the player.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 23, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not true about the college systems which are pro-style.
There are many coaches, including Jeff Tedford and David Cutcliffe, who run pro-style systems and get their quarterbacks (Aaron Rodgers, Peyton/Eli Manning) prepared for life as NFL quarterbacks. I’m also not sure what you mean about concerns about Mark Sanchez in a spread. The concerns about him were about his lack of experience, not the decidedly pro-style system he ran under Pete Carrol at USC.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 24, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Clausen and Pike weren’t from a spread either.
The point I was getting at was that various questions arise about every quarterback that enters the draft, not just about the offense they came from but questions about everything. For Sanchez it was his lack of experience at the position, or how ‘NFL ready’ he was going to be.
Analysts aren’t merely picking on Tim Tebow arbitrarily, yet proponents of his skill appear to take questions about Tebow’s ability highly personally and portray such questions as ‘character assassination’, which isn’t the case.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at www.realbitsofpanthers.com
by James The Aussie on Mar 24, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
It's more so that people refuse to acknowledge his good abilities
And while it may be the hype machine, Tebow is far more polarizing than any player to come out in recent memory (recent being for as long as I’ve followed the draft).
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 24, 2010 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions
That's because his "good abilities" have nothing to do with physically playing the position of quarterback at the pro level.
They have to do with his dedication to religion and his leadership. We can get that out of our team chaplain.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 24, 2010 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
This.
As long as the Panthers don't trade for Michael Vick or draft Tim Tebow, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
That is not entirely true.
He is very gifted physically (size, arm strength, speed [although speed is not a huge factor in QB success]) as well as having tremendous amounts of experience against the highest level of competition.
Would you agree?
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Mar 24, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope...
The highest level of competition would be the NFL, where he has exactly the same amount of experience as I do – none.
As long as the Panthers don't trade for Michael Vick or draft Tim Tebow, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
At the college level
you don’t get closer to the NFL than the SEC.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 25, 2010 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions
That's not the point...
Close only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes … not in football.
Just because the SEC is the best college conference doesn’t make it a qualifier for NFL experience.
As long as the Panthers don't trade for Michael Vick or draft Tim Tebow, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
Sorry, but I don't see many Vandy and Mississippi State defenders in the NFL lately.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 25, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
DJ Moore last year, Jamar Chaney this year
Put Vandy and MSU in another conference, I gurantee they do better.
Close is relative, the SEC is most definitely not close to the NFL, relative to the NFL. Relative to the rest of college football, if you want to play NFL ball, the SEC will prepare you better than any other conference.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 26, 2010 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions
The argument isn't about preparation...
It’s about experience, and that is completely different from preparation.
One could prepare for 5 years to play in the NFL, but until said person has played in an NFL game, the level of experience still remains at zero.
As long as the Panthers don't trade for Michael Vick or draft Tim Tebow, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
Sure, playing helps
And Tebow can play FB or H-back while learning the QB position. No other QBs have this ability, athletically.
At this point, Tebow is not ready for experience, as we can confidently say that his experience would be nightmarish.
Tebow needs years of preparation before he should be considered worthy of extended playing time (experience).
The benefit is his versatility.
Preparing for a few years is not necessarily a waste….Rivers and Rodgers prepared for 2 and 3 years, respectively, and came in to make a seamless transition.
Do or do not. There is no try.
"Rivers and Rodgers prepared for 2 and 3 years, respectively, and came in to make a seamless transition."
Sounds like Matt Moore. Hmm.
On a side note, think Tebow could line up in the FB slot, and lead block for our RB’s? Now THAT might present some interesting options.
They also had much more talent and past success.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 26, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
So... Moore has a "measure of talent," but much less than Rivers or Rodgers?
Not in the first 8 starts of the three.
As to the long term, it’s too early to tell on any of them, as their careers are in flux.
We can all speculate as to what those final career figures may be, but I’m only going by comparable results, and at this stage, it’s their first 8 starts. Let’s talk about it after next season, shall we?
My comment wasn't about being a backup NFL QB
I was referring to the counterargument by flowing willow to my argument to the comment above by WP81 that says he [Tebow] already has “tremendous amounts of experience at the highest level” which is not true, since he’s yet to even be drafted at the highest level.
As long as the Panthers don't trade for Michael Vick or draft Tim Tebow, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
Highest level of college ball.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 27, 2010 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions
He can?
No way. You’re not going to make a guy who’s never played FB or TE learn those plays and techniques while also expecting him to become a QB, among the hardest positions in football to learn. If you don’t make him a QB exclusively, he never will be.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 26, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with that sentiment, however
if you survived in the SEC, you are more likely to have a shorter adjustment period than playing in say the MAC. The NFL cannot be compared to college ball, it’s apples to oranges. But since the SEC is the closest to the NFL college ball has to offer, playing in it has to be a better qualifying experience than playing in any other conference.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 27, 2010 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
His speed is very mediocre for an NFL player.
Further, we really don’t know anything about his arm strength given he didn’t throw the NFL routes that require them (15+-yard outs, deep posts.) If you’re talking about his wobbly, duckish deep balls he threw to his receivers who had cleared their coverage by the time they got three yards off the line of scrimmage, count me unimpressed.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 24, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, so a strong arm and mobility aren't good attributes for a QB?
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 25, 2010 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I've never seen him show any kind of above-average arm strength.
As I said above, he didn’t throw the NFL routes that require it (15+-yard outs, deep posts), and if you’re talking about his wobbly, duckish deep balls he threw to his receivers who had cleared their coverage by the time they got three yards off the line of scrimmage, count me unimpressed. As for his mobility, he won’t be running over players like Beason and Davis the way he did OLBs from Vanderbilt.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 25, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Ridiculous
Just because Meyer’s offense doesn’t have a typical pro route tree doesn’t mean that Tebow can’t make the throws. That’s like saying a great shooting guard is sure to fail in the NBA because the 3 pt line is father back.
Since you are going to be a lawyer, maybe a visual will sway the jury.
Go check this out and pay special attention to the times listed below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMPsSuPPXgw
:35 25 yard skinny post bullet between linebackers
1:35 45 yard seam in heavy traffic
1:49 45 yard go route with perfect touch
2:03 40 yard stop and go on a string
2:15 50 yard go route
2:24 2:41 30 yard jump pass off the run
2:61 50 yard bullet corner route
3:12 50 yard go pattern
3:15 55 yard seam pattern
3:24 30 yard out with a defender in his face
3:37 40 yard go route off his back foot with a defender on his waist
Not a wounded duck in the lot. Not to mention good coverage downfield. To say that he was only good because his receivers were good is a fallacy.
I see alot of this in your future if you don’t change. “OBJECTION, calls for speculation”
"going to be a lawyer"
Objection!
THAT calls for speculation.
In this economy
That’s sad but true.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 26, 2010 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with much of what was said.
I will say that the hype surrounding Tebow is solely due to his on field success. His SEC records have been discussed, but he also won a Heisman and 2 National Championships. That cannot be ignored. Did LaFevour win a Heisman (personal acheivement) or a National Championship (team acheivement)? No. Was he on a far inferior team/program? Yes. Mark Sanchez, Sam Bradford, Colt McKoy all had rediculous talent around them and none of them won a National Chamionship.
Point being that his hype is soley due to his success. There are plenty of college football players who are wonderful humanitarians that are not getting the same hype.
Will Parker
by WillParker81 on Mar 24, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Josh Heupel won a national championship.
Did that make him a great pro quarterback?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 24, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That particular post is not discussing his NFL success
It’s discussing the hype. Heupel is irrelevant.
Jake Delhomme, QB Carolina Panthers, 2003-2009.
120 TDs+16000+ passing yards=Good
89 INT's+27 lost fumbles=Bad
Most comeback wins since 2003=Priceless
by Flowing Willow on Mar 25, 2010 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Plenty have.
Urban Meyer’s system is not merely “non-pro style,” it’s about as far from pro style as you can get. The routes, throws, and reads are totally different. Vick doesn’t have “ability” as a quarterback, just as a runner. He neither could nor can throw accurately at all in any sort of intermediate or long route, and that’s a problem as a quarterback.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 24, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of Meyer
How funny was the video of him wigging out on that reporter about the Tebow comments?
Do or do not. There is no try.
He should have been going after his receiver if he was pissed about the quote.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 26, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
It was funny...
I think my favorite part was when he said something to the effect of: If it were my son, me and you would be going at it right now…
As long as the Panthers don't trade for Michael Vick or draft Tim Tebow, my sanity (what's left of it, at least) will remain intact for 2010.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Five unanswered preseason questions
- Preseason Confidential: Forsett and Seahawks still have concerns
- This is why we don't wear huge diamond earrings to practice
- The Shutdown Eleven: The most interesting footballers of 2010. #10: LaDainian Tomlinson
- Reports: Cardinals now want to trade Leinart; Giants interested
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
